M715.9

[swbhobie16]

I'd be VERY careful of a crew especially with a rusty floor. 75% of them have bad roofs and it's very hard to tell by looking at them. But rusty floors is a common sign, especially on the DS.  I have seen Arizona crews with bad roofs. It's a byproduct of poor assembly seam sealing and the fact on a crews larger roof, they will literally makes water during temp cycles. So use a screwdriver under the seam sealer and look for softness on every square inch of the roof seam. Also the pillars behind the front doors...in the pinch welds.

Also while your at it the crews are bad for cracking the rear body mounting areas, check those also carefully.

very good info. I'll check it out if/when I head down to check it out.

thanks again, as usual, Norm

[wyorunner]

I'd be VERY careful of a crew especially with a rusty floor. 75% of them have bad roofs and it's very hard to tell by looking at them. But rusty floors is a common sign, especially on the DS.  I have seen Arizona crews with bad roofs. It's a byproduct of poor assembly seam sealing and the fact on a crews larger roof, they will literally makes water during temp cycles. So use a screwdriver under the seam sealer and look for softness on every square inch of the roof seam. Also the pillars behind the front doors...in the pinch welds.

Also while your at it the crews are bad for cracking the rear body mounting areas, check those also carefully.

Sadly, I can attest to these rust issues... Didn't inspect close enough, but I also 1800 miles to pick up the truck, so I also probably forced myself to go through with the sale.. Oh well, we like the truck, even if it's in pieces. If you want pictures of what Norm is talking about send me a PM. My solution is an entire floor replacement.

Sorry to add to the DOT of your thread. Also of note, there is a 2wd crew down here for sale.


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[swbhobie16]

I have experienced the same issues on my single cab 95% certain I have stopped the roof leak, now have some issues with the cowl and where the shin vent on the driver side is. I'm
trying my hardest to keep myself from tearing the truck apart to fix, mostly because I want those efforts to be toward a crew. I think I might have caught it soon enough and can efficiently cut out rust and replace as needed. not a whole floor. I hope to make it down to see it next weekend. would be great if it worked out, since it's already 4x4, slightly above stock lift, body and frame.

we shall see.

DOT away. just enjoying the conversation.

[swbhobie16]

lizard skin applied. (lots of costs under the passenger floor board and trans tunnel






closer shot (and dry)



keep in mind this tub started out as a rust free 1975 wagoneer. zero body work (apart from moving the M715 stuff) had to be done.



inside raptor liner







anybody have a source for body mounts for a wagoneer/Cherokee chief or Kaiser? would love to put new ones on. especially since I'm missing 1/4-maybe 1/2 of the originals

[KensAuto]

That looks really nice!

[stlaser]

It does, very nice attention to details

[JR]

Is someone paying you to do this?

You are moving so fast an doing so great work.

[swbhobie16]

Is someone paying you to do this?

You are moving so fast an doing so great work.

no sir. not yet. working this as a driving billboard. would like to do this one the side/possibly turn it in to something.

again, thanks for the compliments. great motivation

[JR]

I do know the feeling when working on something and getting really "into it"

[swbhobie16]

I do know the feeling when working on something and getting really "into it"

it's a lot of fun, and the motivation of having it for a daily driver is pretty good. (needs/wants it ASAP. so there's a kind of push, but want it running too)

[swbhobie16]

and speaking of getting back 'in to it'.. when do you get vertical again and able to work on the 12 valve 'burb?

[wyorunner]

So, I'm sure you have posted what liner you are using, but I seemed to have missed/don't recall what it is. Sure looks good and would be nice to do on our crew when I replace the floor. Did you or dad spray it on or is it all rolled?

If you want to get some practice on a crew come down to southeast AZ, I'd love some help and the expertise. I can manage but I am by no means good at it.

Thanks for the info on your liner.


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[JR]

and speaking of getting back 'in to it'.. when do you get vertical again and able to work on the 12 valve 'burb?

2 weeks and I get a walking cast. Been doing a little cleanup and odd things but climbing up or over is out until at least then.

Plan is;

Get it running again solid (gas)
Interior and exterior cleanup (seats, coatings, some paint)
Lift, tires and wheels
Go over the 6BT and tranny during this and then the swap.

[swbhobie16]

So, I'm sure you have posted what liner you are using, but I seemed to have missed/don't recall what it is. Sure looks good and would be nice to do on our crew when I replace the floor. Did you or dad spray it on or is it all rolled?

If you want to get some practice on a crew come down to southeast AZ, I'd love some help and the expertise. I can manage but I am by no means good at it.

Thanks for the info on your liner.


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the interior stuff is raptor liner.  it's a Napa product, comes on 4 1 quart jars along with about a pint or so of hardener. you can get the gun from there too. mix the hardener in the jug and screw the whole thing to the bottom of the gun (air) and spray. my dad did the Kaiser this weekend, but we've both done it before. it's about a 1/4"-3/8" pickup tube and orifice. the further you hold it away the more coarse it gets because it solidifies while flying through the air. closer, smoother. I did the inside of me jeep black and outside impact orange maybe 4 years ago and it still looks like I just did it. exterior feels about like an orange peel. depending on number of layers and distance sprayed, you can get just about any texture.  ohh.. and you can also tint raptor liner. there is a straight black mixture, and then there this a tintable one as well. can get the color at Napa. I believe it's between 3 and 4 ounces of color and 4 ounces of hardener per quart of liner.

as far as coverage, I did the outside of a 1989 jeep Cherokee in color with 4 bottles (one package from Napa) and the inside in black with 4 bottles (went over some areas a lot more than others) so your crew should only take a package so long as you're not looking to do the roof. but you should be more than fine with one and still get good coverage. especially if you are dyna/hush matting the interior as well as carpet.

in regards to the lizard skin, first time we've used that. and it's sprayed as well. but from a pressure pot and not a screw on gun. one of the scout guys put it on his 79 frame off LS swap, but hasn't put it on the road yet. norm gave a great review for some home brew 'skin but this was off the shelf and dang near free. (unused from said scout guy) and he had the gun.

I'd love to get some practice on a crew, but believe me I'm no expert.

last time I was down that way I had the cruise on 80 heading back from LA. drove from Holbrook (just outside New Mexico) to Memphis that day. hahah. I was ready to be back home

[wyorunner]

Thanks for the info! And that is a LONG drive for one day. But I understand wanting to be home, that's how I always am on the return trip.


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[swbhobie16]

no problem.

it was right around 20 hrs and 1300ish miles. lots of diesel. hahah

[OldKooT]

"IF" we do our crew next and not a M37 (still debating) I will likely use a lizard skin type product on the inside of the firewall and under the dash area. I will likely leave the floor just paint on the underside for sure...gravel we have here chips "liners" and then moisture gets under it and poof you have rust. I might also do the inside roof, those dern crews get "boomy" with the long floppy roof skins.

Who knows I am a long ways from that stage yet LoL I still have to find a passenger side rear door that's nice....and come up with a plan on how to build it.

[swbhobie16]

Who knows I am a long ways from that stage yet LoL I still have to find a passenger side rear door that's nice....and come up with a plan on how to build it.

well k have a plan.. just need the canvas. hahah.

the paint on the bottom sounds like great for out there.. since you actually drive at speed on the gravel. only rock this one will see is down the path at ~10mph and farm paths. nothing wild. which is why we decided on lizard skin and not paint. plus.. we aren't doing any sort of interior sound deadening (like dyna mat and such). I'm doing the interior of my 1st gen at the moment, and it'll have rhino, hush mat and carpet inside. I'm hoping that I can get 2 small water leaks taken care of soon, and know it keeps water out before I do much more. interior is out, wire wheeled all the big stuff down and hit it with rust converter. I have a sizeaxle hole on the pass side that needs addressing, and everything else will be cleaned and painted/lined. I'll get some pics once it gets to looking alittle better. hahah

[swbhobie16]

passenger side floor on my 1st gen is patched. going to address the drivers side tmrw and get some 1" square tubing for the bucket seat/center console bracket. going to have that done while the interior is just metal to keep from messing up good carpet and hush mat. hahah

still waiting for add a leaves to show up for the 715. couldn't find a 1-2" lift, so went with AAL for a 1st gen cummins (since that's essentially what it is) that advertises ~2" lift which will be just about right by the time the front gets a bumper, winch, brush guard, cooler mount etc.

going to see about a trans cooler since it'll be situated between the IC and radiator (still assuming the fans can fit between the rad and front of engine). I can buy some space with an oil fil relocator valve cover and fill cap plug in the timing case. that gets me ~1.5" right where a fan motor will sit inside the engine bay. between this week and next, hoping to have a cab sitting on the frame with front fenders and facia assembled. would be great to have that before heading to FL for the week. waiting on rim O rings for the HUMVEE rims (if anyone knows where to get some.. speak up! haha) and a local guy is getting me some 37" wranglers as well.. I'm hoping.

once the AAL is installed, ill know about steering as well (thinking full high steer/crossover.. bc it will never be easier to install hi steer arms over crossover arms.. and only about $50 or so more right off the bat)

[stlaser]

McMaster.com or mscdirect.com both sell the o-rings, there are two different sizes they claim are correct (not true) imo I've had better luck with the slightly smaller size if memory serves me correctly.

O-ring Info:

They are a buna rubber o-ring the two sizes they claim will work are below

2-458 & 2-457

When I owned GLO and built the hummer wheel parts (rock rings and centers) I built a lot of these and personally ran them on both my 73 EB crawler and my 04 Rubicon shop truck. I had purchased both sizes and kept them in the shop. My memory isn't the greatest but I believe the larger size tended to not want to seal as easily at times. I think there was a bit too much slop in the o-ring. Now understand I always had the wheels blasted bare and then powdered. The military for some reason liked to coat these wheels with 30 layers of a very thick and nasty paint like substance. So my theory on this is that the reason the larger O-rings may work better for some is in how they prepped or lack there of prior to assembly.

Now, a word worth noting when you do go to assemble them make sure you use plenty of grease on the o-ring. I used to use leather generic steel shop gloves and sacrifice one to the grease gods when assembling. Basically grab a handful of grease and lather up the o-ring really good. I think it is hard to use to much imo.

[OldKooT]

You can also get them here http://www.trailworthyfab.com/H1-Hummer-Wheel-Replacement-O-Ring-SKU175211.html
If you look around their sight, they have most everything required to refurbish those wheels, including tires, inserts, hardware, the works.

[JR]

http://pma4x4.com/product-category/military-surplus/

[swbhobie16]

thanks everyone

got the add a leaves in today. put them on and gained pretty much exactly what was advertised. need to relocate the holes in the rear position front shackles (need to drill holes closer to the frame so there isn't quite as much of a gap between spring eyes and bottom of frame) which should put us back to being dead level on the truck. if anything it'll be nose down a hair, in which case I can lose a 3/4" thick overload spring on the rear and drop it back down.

think I'm going high crossover steer from NWF. the kit seems reasonable and will give me almost horizontal and parallel draglink and tie rod. and all over-the-spring. hoping to get the ball rolling on this sooner rather than later

dropped the drive shafts off down the road to have the front lengthened and the rear swapped from slip yoke NP208 from the CUCV to splined 1410 yoke for the NP205. should be done end of this week/first of next

the very next thing will be to O rings everyone so generously helped out in locating. I greatly appreciate that.

[Flyin6]

My next one will be built with no IC because I am odd like that LoL

Come on Norm, you're odd in lots more ways than just that! ;-)

BTW, I requested a Norm sighting pic of you and Duane...What's up with that?

Everyone, Duane, on a drive back from Wyoming, stopped by to say hello to Mr. Norm!

That'd be a two for one pic!

[OldKooT]

You swapping that 14 Bolt to 1410 also? Now is the time LoL 

[swbhobie16]

You swapping that 14 Bolt to 1410 also? Now is the time LoL

wasn't going to.. think I should?

[OldKooT]

Crap, I know-ed we forgot something..it's bad enough someone local snapped a picture of my truck at Starbucks and sent it to everyone with the caption "Look, the farming elite drinks Starbucks, whats next a new pickup?"

Duane and his son were very cool people, glad to have had the chance to say hello.

I am investigating the source of said text/picture, I suspect a local LEO is behind it.... we shall see.

[OldKooT]

The 1350 rear shaft in Anvil has held up... but it's also a trophy truck type shaft. So, not sure LoL

[stlaser]

You swapping that 14 Bolt to 1410 also? Now is the time LoL

wasn't going to.. think I should?

If it's 1350 i'd leave it, stronger than 1410 imo, same cap size in smaller package (thus less leverage than the more spread out 1410)

Edit: I once sheared off a Dana 44 pinion with a 1350 u-joint & ran the u-joint after that even. Believe pics are still on glo site under the u-joint girdles we designed & sold.

[JR]

Yep, good time to match it all up.

[OldKooT]

Yah there is a solid argument for the 1350 joints more compact size/ears. I once broke a 205 in half and the 1350 was just fine. Where the 1410 gains advantage is in it's operating range at an angle, and the 1410 style yokes have more "beef" in a U bolt style yoke. So in your application...maybe no advantage as stlaser noted. I was thinking abused trail rig mode... your building a much different machine.

If your using the Chevy 1028 rear driveshaft, that tube will fail before the 1350 will anyway. What I have found myself, I never mix Joint series on one shaft if possible....for some reason that hasn't worked so well for me in the past. So your cheapest easiest solution... buy a 1350 yoke for the 205 and keep it simple LoL 

[swbhobie16]

I need to make a move if I'm going to do it since both shafts are at the machine shop getting prepped. I can call the guy today and get him to put 1350s on both ends, but I may just let it ride (literally) and see which goes first.. if ever.

the guy is going to inspect the Chevy slip yoke shaft to see if it's able to be used. he said there were 3 different sizes it could be and wouldn't know without cutting it open. the front will be easy, since it's a 4 bolt flange to a yoke on the axle. just needs to be lengthened. the rear is the tricky part. hahah


vote for changing the 205 yoke to 1350
                           -OR-
just leave it and see what happens..

[stlaser]

OldKoot is right on the 1410 angle with suspension flex but since that doesn't matter I'd also agree with him whatever route you go to keep them the same size. I always did it to make it look clean & less spare parts to keep in stock.

[OldKooT]

It seems the CUCV shaft is already 1350 both ends so that would be the low buck approach and likely just as strong. The only issue is the strap style yokes, and well honestly on a largely street driven truck, not a huge issue. I myself have actually been thinking about this a bit for the Crew project. A three piece 1410 shaft will be a spendy undertaking. I already have a heavy wall 1350 3 piece shaft I built for when the truck had a monster stroker big block....so I bet that would be just fine behind the Cummins. I will just need to build a new front section to offset the difference in length between the old 727/205 and the new NV4500/205. I can then build a front 1350 shaft and run the same joint throughout. At least that's my thinking ATM

[stlaser]

Add Glo u-joint girdles & straps ain't an issue any longer......

[OldKooT]

I have been eyeing those GLO straps/girdles myself. I was trying to decide in my farmer engineering mind why those wouldn't be stronger than the u-bolt style retention. I decided they almost have to be stronger. Only draw back is I already have all U-bolt style yokes in 1350 LoL

[Flyin6]

I concur with the strength of the 1350

However, I swap up to 1410 just for the increased strength at big angles. On Square D, I kept the front 1350's but changed the rear's to 1410's on both ends of a reworked freight truck drive shaft.

I'm leaning toward 1410's in an off road truck with a diesel engine. Just less you'll need to think about

[JR]

I upped my D60 front to 1350s when I got my parts from Randys. Probably stay with 1350s for the entire truck for parts sacs.

[stlaser]

I have been eyeing those GLO straps/girdles myself. I was trying to decide in my farmer engineering mind why those wouldn't be stronger than the u-bolt style retention. I decided they almost have to be stronger. Only draw back is I already have all U-bolt style yokes in 1350 LoL

I can't recall the name now but there is a nascar chassis builder up hither yonder in eastern Canada that bought quite a few sets off of me a couple years back. I thought that spoke highly of their strength though.

[swbhobie16]

all of this is noted, but had to be run through my dad ultimately. he can be of the mindset of 'it worked for 30 years.. let it keep going' sometimes. but.. I can sometimes sway him with 'they're all the same, so when it comes to scavenging for parts during an apocalypse, you only need to be looking for one vehicle/axle to pull from.' hahah.

I'm inclined to say that he's going to want to keep them all the way they are for now, and address any issues as they come up. I'm more of a preventative maintainance guy myself. and actually enjoy fuel line changes, filters, oil, gaskets. etc. hahah

[wilsonphil]

I need to make a move if I'm going to do it since both shafts are at the machine shop getting prepped. I can call the guy today and get him to put 1350s on both ends, but I may just let it ride (literally) and see which goes first.. if ever.

the guy is going to inspect the Chevy slip yoke shaft to see if it's able to be used. he said there were 3 different sizes it could be and wouldn't know without cutting it open. the front will be easy, since it's a 4 bolt flange to a yoke on the axle. just needs to be lengthened. the rear is the tricky part. hahah


vote for changing the 205 yoke to 1350
                           -OR-
just leave it and see what happens..

I run 1410 everywhere, just because I only wanted to carry one spare.  The custom rear shaft I had made is a double cardan but 1410.  Dodge in their wisdom or cheapness used a 1310 on their D60 fronts from the factory, I converted to 1410 u-bolt type yoke.  I was thinking it was way over built for the RC until I put it on the scale and then I thought it was a good idea that I did it.

[swbhobie16]

drive shafts are back. my dad decided to build a lower windshield frame and hard top that will all come on and off as one unit.

autometer gauges, crossover high steer, air filter box and hummer rim master kit are all ordered. should be back by the time we come back from Florida.

in bed fuel cell/tank is all drawn up and ready to be built.

brake lines need to be run, pinion angle set so the rear perches can be welded on. and I'm gonna have to swap out front axle u bolts for longer ones since the add a leaves went on. but.. it's gonna have to wait a week or two until we get back and brown Santa starts showing up!

[JR]

Sounds like another SD, solid build with even more fab work. But your motor runs,,,,,,,,,,,,

[swbhobie16]

man.. it is relentless. hahah

the trans works as well. shifting it front park, to reverse. neutral and drive (all with no shaft) it spun, stopped, changed directions and spun again. so I'm happy with it for now. no more messing with it until we get it driveable and then it's off to the trans guy to have a once over.

from the cab forward has been painted and the cab is just loosely sitting on the frame. still need to take a look at one or two injectors so the inner and outer fenders aren't on.

IC will be mounted and bracketed once the front facia goes on.

a big hurdle once the wiring starts will be figuring out what/how that military switch operates. going to try and keep it as original as possible inside, so the switch layout will have to be sorted out. it's really only going to run a handful of relays that power lights, gauges, and a few accessories. I imagine an 8-10 circuit fuse block, all powered by a 150-200amp 12 volt contactor should do the trick.. ?

any and all thoughts on wiring will be most helpful..

[swbhobie16]

ohh.. and the 4x4 switch actually works! gonna save us $150. hahah. I'm hoping I can pull the one off mine and clean it the same way. maybe get a light in the dash. 

[JR]

Put it all in a box somewhere and find some loom that looks right for the time.

Still need a builder-rebuilder for my 518. An up grade to the 47 might be OK as I have both bell housings. Just not looking for a lockup.

[swbhobie16]

that lockup should make a world of difference in your hwy drivability. drop a few hundred RPMs. and if you have the 518 PCM, all you need is a toggle or pressure switch that's run through your brake pedal and kickdown switch on the gas pedal that will disengage when activated. (passing gear)

you'll have to machine down the trans->tcase coupler to fit the output shaft seal (it's only like 1/16" or so.) make sure your machine shop centers it from from the splines and not the exterior of the coupler (the two don't have the same center axis)

[JR]

No pcm on this rig. All relays and pressure sensors. I understand the benies of a LU, but we all did really good w/o for 50 years.

[swbhobie16]

I mean.. ppl survived with no AC or instant Mac and cheese for awhile too. but dag on if it isn't nice, and difficult to go back to not having it once you do! hahaha

if I had a 518, i would have put that in there. with a low stall TC, should still get 20+ mpg. even norm gets that in patch and I'm not entirely convinced he even knows that there IS a brake pedal in that truck. hahah

[TexasRedNeck]

Shots fired!