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Author Topic: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap  (Read 23162 times)

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Offline stlaser

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2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« on: January 27, 2020, 06:23:37 PM »


OK, so not technically starting this just yet. I really was not looking to buy a truck for a couple months but had been watching this one for about a month and a half. Last Friday they dropped the price again and it was too good to let it pass. I made an offer and several hours later they called back and we negotiated the sale price which I paid this morning. Yes, there are much nicer configured trucks but I need a work truck and more bells and whistles really aren't my thing anyhow. The truck is a 2010 F350 XL 4x4 Auto W/ 6.4L Diesel 3.73 gears. Has manual 4x4, AC, rubber floor liner and cloth, fairly clean on the inside and even has a radio. The bed is missing a tailgate and the one big dent is drivers side of bed just behind cab. The unit has 170K on the clock and the last two owners have lost money on this unit. It does run and move on its own accord but has a low engine knock just starting, plan is to video motor running and pull it then sell as a buildable replacement unit. 

So the plan is to acquire the circa 2000 24V from Ken (low mileage 130K I think he stated) that he has been stowing away for some time now. Baylee and I are going to pick it up weekend after this coming one on way back home from KOH. It is missing some parts to make it run but think we can address that issue w/o much problem.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2020, 07:18:20 PM by stlaser »
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Offline stlaser

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2020, 06:32:24 PM »
So here is the current build sheet and is subject to change at any point in time.

-24V Cummins (build to 400-500 reliable HP)
-ATS Aurora 3000 turbo or upgraded Holset turbo

-P-pump conversion (scored the high output 210hp pump, front case and oil pan 2-22-20)

-adjustable overflow valve (per America.mike)
-FASS Titanium Fuel Pump or air dog (leaning air dog atm)
-125HP injectors (maybe 150?)
-CAI
-Arp head and rod bolts
-upgraded push rods, springs etc
-Hamilton towing cam
-afc live
-After market exhaust manifold
-Pull the oem 5R110 trans and have it built (thinking ATS stage 2) ATS is a local company here and we will run a stand alone controller for it.
-Destroked in Wheat Ridge another local company to help with components to make this swap painless
-37" tires, leveling kit and new shocks at all corners
-Pull OEM bed and sell it, upgrade to a steel flat bed and gn ball

-Build / Purchase a removable lifting crane to load and unload heavy components onto bed (axles and parts I seem to be dealing with / moving weekly now) 1-31-20 I just bartered for a like new northern tool item# 52514 score!

-Better front Bumper, aftermarket and a set of steps for the short better half to get in it


Diesels particularly cummins are not my thing and I know there is plenty of expertise around here so by all means pick the plan apart and make suggestions as you see fit. The last diesel I had for 6 or 7 years F350 dually 7.3L so once I get trucks the way I want them it wouldn't be out of line for me to keep it ten years or longer. I want this built right, initial buy in is cheap considering. I want it done correctly the first time and have funds to make that happen on this build.

« Last Edit: February 23, 2020, 10:37:22 PM by stlaser »
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Offline Farmer Jon

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2020, 07:35:55 AM »
Most flatbeds you get will have a built in goose neck ball. Its recessed in the middle of the bed. No need for the turn over ball.
Aluminum looks real nice if you don't actually haul anything on the bed. I found it dents easily. We have an aluminum bed on one of the farms dodge duallys. I hauled a rear end on it one time. Now its dented and scratched. I was very careful loading and unloading. If you are just going to pull a trailer all the time then go aluminum but if you are going to be hauling stuff go steel.
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2020, 10:30:29 AM »
I for one am really going to enjoy watching this happen.

What Shawn is doing here fits the modern condition so very well.

The truck chassis of the Ford is good and proven. It isn't old and all rusted up, so we are just talking about a mechanical modification, and not having to clean frames, weld on door skins and trying to find non existent parts. So we take a modern truck chassis that benefits from technology and is not old and place in it a proven albeit much simpler powerplant and proven transmission.

For much, much less than the cost of a new truck or even a good used diesel, you get something that you built. Something that cost much less and doesn't have you buried in payments. You get something you know all about, and you get better everything. Better mileage, better performance, and that wow factor that, face it, we all enjoy

Hats off to my steel toe'd friend on embarking on this adventure!
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Offline stlaser

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2020, 10:42:47 AM »
Most flatbeds you get will have a built in goose neck ball. Its recessed in the middle of the bed. No need for the turn over ball.
Aluminum looks real nice if you don't actually haul anything on the bed. I found it dents easily. We have an aluminum bed on one of the farms dodge duallys. I hauled a rear end on it one time. Now its dented and scratched. I was very careful loading and unloading. If you are just going to pull a trailer all the time then go aluminum but if you are going to be hauling stuff go steel.

Thanks for advice on aluminum, was wondering about that. I’ll go steel and unless I can find what I want will most likely build my own.


Thanks Don, this should be interesting and a bit out of my comfort zone but having some local expertise should go a long way. I may end up paying more in that regards (parts) however in the long run I think it makes sense.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 10:45:03 AM by stlaser »
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2020, 11:20:56 AM »
If you keep it inside the shootlane limits, it will make a bunch of sense.

Cool
Cost effective
Totally useable
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Offline stlaser

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2020, 11:34:32 AM »
If you keep it inside the shootlane limits, it will make a bunch of sense.

Cool
Cost effective
Totally useable

Yeah, I’m debating 35’s versus 37’s just for that reason. As a useable truck 37’s are pushing it, and I know I can squeeze in 35’s w/ stock suspension too.
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Offline BobbyB

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2020, 07:46:37 PM »
So just a question from me.. If you're going to have a motor built up anyway; why not just build up the 6.4? It's already there, there are upgrades and fixes, and you won't have problems later on due to a motor swap?

So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!
your standard grunt level CQB is just putting rounds and rounds on scary stuff till it stops scaring you!

Offline swbhobie16

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2020, 07:52:23 PM »
So just a question from me.. If you're going to have a motor built up anyway; why not just build up the 6.4? It's already there, there are upgrades and fixes, and you won't have problems later on due to a motor swap?

the way i understand it, a 6.4, even one built up, is a 100k mi time bomb. one diesel guy here in town has put 2 in 1 truck. not counting the original one that came out.

Offline swbhobie16

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2020, 07:55:22 PM »
besides.. why do with 8 what you can do with 6! (coming from
the guy putting an LBZ in a square body   :facepalm: )hahah

Offline BobbyB

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2020, 07:55:46 PM »
All depends on how you treat them. Example of everyone talks bad about the 6.0, I have friends who owned them and never had a problem who towed horse trailers, work trailers some tuned, some stock and a couple friends who had nothing but problems, the difference.. how they ran them and abused them.


Just my observation as a neutral participant.
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!
your standard grunt level CQB is just putting rounds and rounds on scary stuff till it stops scaring you!

Offline stlaser

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2020, 08:01:42 PM »
So just a question from me.. If you're going to have a motor built up anyway; why not just build up the 6.4? It's already there, there are upgrades and fixes, and you won't have problems later on due to a motor swap?

Valid question, the 5.9 which Ken has is a proven platform for over 20 years and thousands of builds, races etc. or trillions of miles working. The performance aftermarket support is tremendous for that platform.

The 6.4 I personally put in the same category as a 6.0 of which I owned one once and will never again. You can fix it but as mentioned already it’s still a ticking time bomb. The 5.9 I’m not fixing, just building to gain larger hp/tq numbers. There are some 5.9’s with issues, it’s actually one block casting number that has thinner piston walls, the one Ken has is not one of those. 

The Cummins engines were built to be utilized in many platforms. The way that Ford sets up their trucks it is fairly easy to drop in a separate power plant. I could have bought a Dodge chassis but from my perspective / experience they are not built as well as the fords. So this in my opinion is best if both worlds and less “new emissions technology” to deal with which should help mpg’s and reliability. 
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Offline stlaser

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2020, 08:07:26 PM »
All depends on how you treat them. Example of everyone talks bad about the 6.0, I have friends who owned them and never had a problem who towed horse trailers, work trailers some tuned, some stock and a couple friends who had nothing but problems, the difference.. how they ran them and abused them.


Just my observation as a neutral participant.

My perspective on the 6.0l I never abused it. It ran good for 150k with regular maintenance (only mod was 4” exhaust) stock tune etc. I pulled a 36’ enclosed trailer 16k with it. Once it hit 150k it was nothing but problems and money and more money and bs from the dealer working on it. Literally between my bil and I we spent over $20k on two 6.0l trucks. Ford owes a lot of people a lot of money. International had that identical motor in thousands of large trucks with no issues. Ford cranked up the numbers to compete and blew it. My 2 cents.....
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2020, 08:10:27 PM »
If you keep it inside the shootlane limits, it will make a bunch of sense.

Cool
Cost effective
Totally useable

Yeah, I’m debating 35’s versus 37’s just for that reason. As a useable truck 37’s are pushing it, and I know I can squeeze in 35’s w/ stock suspension too.
I think 37's are fine. I have run them for years, wheeling, towing, but, always...Always steerin' clear of those mall speed bumps and mulch beds!

You should too!
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2020, 08:12:37 PM »
I'll add another benefit... have any of you ever worked on a 6.4, or even looked under the hood of that platform?
To put it mildly, if Satan was an engineer, he was definitely responsible for the cluster*** known as a late model F series.
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Offline stlaser

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2020, 08:13:35 PM »
So let’s also talk cost as it’s relevant. I bought the truck running w/ engine light on and slight knock plus a 24v 5.9L Cummins for right at $5k. Now the 5.9 does not have an ecm, turbo, couple fuel lines and somebody (Ken swears it wasn’t him  :rolleyes:) knocked a hole in the oil pan.

My goal is under $20k invested, I think if you were on a budget you could do the swap and be all in on this truck around or under $10k.

« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 08:14:49 PM by stlaser »
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Offline stlaser

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2020, 08:14:23 PM »
I'll add another benefit... have any of you ever worked on a 6.4, or even looked under the hood of that platform?
To put it mildly, if Satan was an engineer, he was definitely responsible for the cluster*** known as a late model F series.

Yeah, pretty much spot on.....
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Offline stlaser

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2020, 08:16:05 PM »
If you keep it inside the shootlane limits, it will make a bunch of sense.

Cool
Cost effective
Totally useable

Yeah, I’m debating 35’s versus 37’s just for that reason. As a useable truck 37’s are pushing it, and I know I can squeeze in 35’s w/ stock suspension too.
I think 37's are fine. I have run them for years, wheeling, towing, but, always...Always steerin' clear of those mall speed bumps and mulch beds!

You should too!

37’s on this truck just look so much better......
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Offline BobbyB

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2020, 10:25:00 PM »

Valid question, the 5.9 which Ken has is a proven platform for over 20 years and thousands of builds, races etc. or trillions of miles working. The performance aftermarket support is tremendous for that platform.

The 6.4 I personally put in the same category as a 6.0 of which I owned one once and will never again. You can fix it but as mentioned already it’s still a ticking time bomb. The 5.9 I’m not fixing, just building to gain larger hp/tq numbers. There are some 5.9’s with issues, it’s actually one block casting number that has thinner piston walls, the one Ken has is not one of those. 

The Cummins engines were built to be utilized in many platforms. The way that Ford sets up their trucks it is fairly easy to drop in a separate power plant. I could have bought a Dodge chassis but from my perspective / experience they are not built as well as the fords. So this in my opinion is best if both worlds and less “new emissions technology” to deal with which should help mpg’s and reliability.

Sounds reasonable. I started thinking about the last time someone started an engine swap for a upgraded,more powerful, reliable one...that didn't work out so well in the end.

But in the end I'm still going to watch the build.
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!
your standard grunt level CQB is just putting rounds and rounds on scary stuff till it stops scaring you!

Offline KensAuto

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2020, 10:38:54 PM »
Bobby, you don't say much, but when you do,....... Lol
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Offline BobbyB

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2020, 09:29:23 PM »
Bobby, you don't say much, but when you do,....... Lol

It's a gift Ken. Subtlety can be used for great effect.
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!
your standard grunt level CQB is just putting rounds and rounds on scary stuff till it stops scaring you!

Offline Flyin6

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2020, 10:06:18 AM »
Shawn,
Good work
and
you know the third or forth axiom of work
Which reads:
He who does work, just has to work
Whereas, he who does good work will often be called on to do even more work

So

Not me

But in keepin' wit the way things is (Or outta beee)

Please just make up a short writeup of the process, links, fees, and recommendations

I'm gunna make a stickie outta that

Hey, we don't believe in breakin' de rules, but when they hand you a fresh twenty dolla bill, then it's fine to go buy Don and yerself a cup of Joe on their dime...

So let it be writtin', so let it beee dun!  ;-))
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Offline stlaser

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2020, 08:27:49 AM »
Copy, I like coffee....... when you come out and stop by we shall have a cup or three, potentially some bourbon because everything is better with bourbon.  :wink:
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2020, 09:58:00 AM »
Copy, I like coffee....... when you come out and stop by we shall have a cup or three, potentially some bourbon because everything is better with bourbon.  :wink:
Yessir, Bourbon is not bad

My fav, not bourbon, is Bailey's
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2020, 08:22:26 PM »
Is this thing running yet? What's taking so long?
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Offline stlaser

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2020, 08:59:49 PM »
Is this thing running yet? What's taking so long?

Customers
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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2020, 10:48:55 PM »
 :popcorn:

37s for sure
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Offline stlaser

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2020, 07:18:53 PM »
A little progress today. Mike from the board here scored several parts for the 12v p-pump conversion this afternoon for me.

A local to him posted up his spare p-pump for his wrecker truck along with the front case and lines for a 12v. Mike sent me the link and we worked out a deal to secure those components and also a spare oil pan. Mike then met this gentleman today and bought the parts. The p-pump is a rebuilt high output 210 hp unit.

Appreciate your help Mike!  :likebutton:
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Offline stlaser

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2020, 10:21:49 PM »
So Mike was kind enough to vacuum all the ports and resealed everything after putting some power service in the holes




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Offline KensAuto

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2020, 09:41:32 AM »
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Offline stlaser

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2020, 10:09:25 AM »


Yeah, yeah

This was t supposed to be a project yet technically. I was shooting for summer anyhow. Mike did shop those above parts the other day. Then ups put one of two boxes on wrong truck and didn’t deliver so hoping the second box shows today. Other than that I’m building a trailer and being a good comrade here behind enemy lines as we’re on lockdown (which for the record changed nothing other than people are freaking and the commies are coming out in droves!)
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Offline Bigdave_185

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #31 on: March 26, 2020, 01:18:01 PM »
Means I have less traffic on my six min drive to work, I have no dust masks for the sanding booth and my wife is going crazy at home working from home with the twins n dogs


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Offline stlaser

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #32 on: April 07, 2020, 01:55:08 PM »



Received some parts from our own America.mike and about 90% sure I’m going to use diesel conversion specialists out of Minnesota for the conversion package and trans tuning.


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Offline swbhobie16

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #33 on: April 07, 2020, 09:58:13 PM »
friend of mine used them for a 12 valve/4r100 build in his ‘00 excursion. has had 30k miles of uninterrupted road time out of the swap.   

Offline stlaser

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #34 on: April 07, 2020, 10:04:42 PM »
 :likebutton: Good feedback, they responded immediately to my questions. They’ve been doing this longer than just about everyone as they used to be fordcummins.com and their packages just seem put together better.
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Offline stlaser

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #35 on: May 27, 2020, 10:12:01 AM »
So I stumbled across a cool antique flat bed for a ford for $100 about an hour south of me. After going over all the dimensions (fit, slightly narrow by an inch or two) and twice asking if it was solid and assured it was in fact and arranging a time to go look at it I drove down late afternoon yesterday thru Denver traffic. I arrived and found it to be beyond repair. But I did grab the stamped back end off and some pictures. Thinking about replicating it on the fummins






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« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 10:13:26 AM by stlaser »
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Offline Sammconn

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #36 on: May 27, 2020, 10:40:45 AM »
Dang, he was trying to sell that as solid...

Would be nice, but will be cool to see what you do with the rear. Rest is easy with the stamped bits.
I just don't want to wind up missing a digit or limb.  I can sometimes get in a hurry to get results.
Sam

Offline stlaser

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #37 on: May 27, 2020, 03:08:34 PM »
Yeah, for the drive I should have been upset. But the pressed rear of the truck was worth it to me for $20 as a wall hanger.
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Offline stlaser

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2020, 06:09:25 PM »





Did something today, scored a Bradford built flatbed for the fummins.


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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2020, 07:05:40 PM »
Looks like it’s well built


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Joshua 6:20-24

Offline stlaser

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #40 on: June 12, 2020, 07:49:49 PM »
They are, I’ve been eyeing them for awhile just didn’t want to buy new and for the price I can’t buy the steel to build one. Love the flip down sides on these.
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Offline stlaser

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #41 on: July 03, 2020, 09:27:20 AM »
So current goal is to get all the motor upgrade parts on order. Yeah, I’m behind on this but is what it is atm.

Started by ordering this yesterday. I have to pull cam to swap gear for pump which is pressed on, no reason not to upgrade it while doing so if I’m that deep into the beast.





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Offline stlaser

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #42 on: July 03, 2020, 11:52:11 AM »




Well, pocket is lighter now. Ordered all the motor parts minus injectors. Going to get pump bench tested and then decide on what size. Went with this turbo and if I so desire I can add another for twins down the road.

So list below is what I have coming now

-Hamilton cam 178/208 combo kit
-ARP head studs
-Super b 600 turbo
-24v p-pump conversion lines
-Tunnel ram intake plate (it was this or spacer for lines to work)
-afc live (in cab fuel adjustment)
-turbo housing heat shield


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« Last Edit: July 03, 2020, 12:31:00 PM by stlaser »
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #43 on: July 03, 2020, 01:41:43 PM »
Now we’re talkin’!


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Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

Joshua 6:20-24

Offline stlaser

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #44 on: July 03, 2020, 05:33:52 PM »
Now we’re talkin’!


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Apparently our Mike From Iowa has a spare hx35 he’s going to send me. May or may not need a little love so could toss that on for twins.
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Offline stlaser

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #45 on: July 19, 2020, 07:04:53 PM »
All of the parts I have purchased showed up. As I have been wading into this conversion I have decided on several things.

First I will not be using DCS for a complete swap kit. I believe there are better options for individual parts. One instance of this is Mike Fuchs who I found thru a fb fummins forum. He makes several parts including brackets to run the stock alternator and ac compressor on the 24v versus running dodge ac compressor as DCS would have you do. After speaking with him I was also able to source the flex plate and trans adapter from him $300 less than retail at DCS or Destroked.

One other reason I have passed on the DCS complete kit is trans tuning and that they don’t seem to have a great track record running a stand alone controller without losing the transmission in the process. Many guys are running the stock pcm with hp tuners successfully. This appears to be the smarter route (unsure of the cost difference atm, doesn’t really matter I guess if it works).

I have recently come across another guy who builds a converter to make the stock tachometer in the f350 work flawlessly with the cummins and he has a website Swaphelper.com

I still need motor mounts & to figure out the delete portion on the f350 (dpf and egr which I think can be done via Hp tuner?). I’m also looking for a cummins spare power steering Pump (Ken, Phil?) if someone has one they want to part with?
« Last Edit: July 19, 2020, 07:57:39 PM by stlaser »
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #46 on: July 19, 2020, 08:18:46 PM »
Don't look at me. Never even seen a 24v before. ;)
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Offline stlaser

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #47 on: July 19, 2020, 08:30:37 PM »
Don't look at me. Never even seen a 24v before. ;)

First and second gens are the same
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Offline wyorunner

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #48 on: July 19, 2020, 08:53:41 PM »
Shawn, why not just buy a new or reman pump?

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Re: 2010 F350 Extended Cab Cummins 24V Swap
« Reply #49 on: July 19, 2020, 09:09:32 PM »
Shawn, why not just buy a new or reman pump?

I can and may, but I thought I’d ask around first.
Living in the remote north hoping Ken doesn’t bring H up here any time soon…..

 

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