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Offline dave945

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Question of the logic/feasibility of this idea
« on: May 17, 2023, 06:53:24 PM »
So, as the topic title states, my wife and I have been talking about projects that need to be done around the house. One of those topics is getting the garage set up the way we want so it will be useable for us. An idea she put forth was tearing down the old structure and putting up a clear span metal building with a higher ceiling and single slope roof.  The current garage is about 6000 sq ft, fully drywalled walls and ceiling and metal roofed. It has just under 8 ft ceilings in most of it. The drywall on the ceiling is in really rough shape. There was little to no maintenance done on it before we bought it and there were raccoons living above the ceiling in the insulation. So there is raccoon poop and urine all throughout. There is also some rot in the sill plates on the walls. Not to mention some of the roof has started to leak along the east side. The entire thing is very low slope and I think that is part of the problem.

What do you think of the idea of replacing it completely with a new metal building utilizing the existing slab/foundation?  I’m sure there might be a need to put in new footers for posts. My wife likes the idea of not having all the existing posts that are in the garage. It was expanded multiple times to get to where itnis today. It would give me ceiling height for a lift and anything else we want to do in the future.

I know this has been rambling, but wanted to throw it out there so I can have all the possible arguments/discussion points.


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Offline oklawall

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Re: Question of the logic/feasibility of this idea
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2023, 07:10:38 PM »
I like the idea but have a question, is the current slab a standard size? If not the roof trusses and metal may become problematic

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Offline dave945

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Re: Question of the logic/feasibility of this idea
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2023, 07:26:42 PM »
Not a standard footprint, I would have to do some some work to get it to fit right, but I think it would be doable. (This from the Air Force guy who is certifiable).


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Offline oklawall

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Re: Question of the logic/feasibility of this idea
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2023, 07:31:42 PM »
Not a standard footprint, I would have to do some some work to get it to fit right, but I think it would be doable. (This from the Air Force guy who is certifiable).


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I think that if you are willing to make it a standard size the only thing holding you back is signing the check but that is from another Air Force guy

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Offline stlaser

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Re: Question of the logic/feasibility of this idea
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2023, 09:23:33 PM »
Steel fabricated buildings can be manufactured to your foundation but it’s not cheap because it’s custom and it’s steel.


So you can get or have fabricated U shape steel pole barn column bases that could be bolted to the top of the existing footer / wall foundation. Then it’s a simple matter of erecting a pole barn w/ prefab trusses on that foundation. It will be the most cost effective and quickest construction. I’m actually having three of these type bases cut for my build atm. If I can help with any of that let me know.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2023, 09:24:57 PM by stlaser »
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Offline Dustoff35

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Re: Question of the logic/feasibility of this idea
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2023, 07:54:54 AM »
Would you build another 6000 sq ft structure if you tear down what you currently have?

What is the condition and thickness of the the present concrete slab? Does it have stem walls or is it a turned-down slab?
« Last Edit: May 18, 2023, 07:58:50 AM by Dustoff35 »

Offline Flyin6

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Re: Question of the logic/feasibility of this idea
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2023, 08:41:05 AM »
Easy solution: Tear down and build new.

You can try and use the current foundation, but I say that is unnecessary.

If you can use the floor, then great. Set posts where they are needed by setting in the ground or on a pillar. Although some will disagree, the builders in our areas much prefer setting posts directly into the ground.

I have a one-phone call guy, Corey Jones. He builds some of the best pole barns in the area. He lives here and has a crew he has had for years. During COVID, when people were laying off and finding excuses for everything, he continued to work and even found enough work that his guys were making overtime every week. He built my barn, you're welcome to come look.

He uses two truss companies, which are custom and local. Once he gives them measurements, they can make it. This is not hard, it's just a decision. Kill that old structure and burn it. Let me know if you want to look at mine. I'll be down there today and maybe tomorrow.
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Offline dave945

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Re: Question of the logic/feasibility of this idea
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2023, 11:57:51 AM »
Easy solution: Tear down and build new.

You can try and use the current foundation, but I say that is unnecessary.

If you can use the floor, then great. Set posts where they are needed by setting in the ground or on a pillar. Although some will disagree, the builders in our areas much prefer setting posts directly into the ground.

I have a one-phone call guy, Corey Jones. He builds some of the best pole barns in the area. He lives here and has a crew he has had for years. During COVID, when people were laying off and finding excuses for everything, he continued to work and even found enough work that his guys were making overtime every week. He built my barn, you're welcome to come look.

He uses two truss companies, which are custom and local. Once he gives them measurements, they can make it. This is not hard, it's just a decision. Kill that old structure and burn it. Let me know if you want to look at mine. I'll be down there today and maybe tomorrow.
That is definitely an option. I think the slab/foundation will stay, it is 6 inches thick and in good enough shape.  No matter which path I choose, I think we will probably add 6 inch concrete “walls” around the perimeter to help with keeping water out, the original sill plates were placed at ground level and around half the garage there is concrete at the same level outside as well, making the sill plates sit in water in heavy rains.


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Offline JR

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Re: Question of the logic/feasibility of this idea
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2023, 02:37:18 PM »
6000 sg ft, thats bigger than my new shop!

I like the idea of rebuilding and going with a stem wall to fit what you want. Might be cheaper to as using the existing footprint could negate much of the permit issues, if it is an issue?
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Offline dave945

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Re: Question of the logic/feasibility of this idea
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2023, 04:30:11 PM »
I don’t think permit issues will come up. Over I think 10 acres in Kentucky and you get a farm exemption and don’t have to worry about permits is my understanding. We’re sitting on 63.6, so I can bury the inspector if he comes a snooping.

Here’s the current floor plan of the garage, im thinking of just turning it into a rectangle down the middle with a half truss section over the part on the left of the picture. It would cover nearly the entire existing footprint and would be a lot more useable space than is currently there with all the posts and short wall sections scattered about 



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Offline stlaser

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Re: Question of the logic/feasibility of this idea
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2023, 04:52:54 PM »
Then drill the current slab for rebar and sit a row or two on concrete block on it. Then fill blocks with concrete and rebar. Simple and you can do that all yourself easily.
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Offline dave945

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Re: Question of the logic/feasibility of this idea
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2023, 07:30:27 PM »
Would the blocks need to be mortared together?  Or would the concrete inside the voids take care of that.


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Offline stlaser

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Re: Question of the logic/feasibility of this idea
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2023, 08:35:35 PM »
Would the blocks need to be mortared together?  Or would the concrete inside the voids take care of that.


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I’d drill the current slab every 16” roughly so that the rebar would come up into a void in the block, I’m not a mason so I don’t know what the spacing would be. If you want you could even epoxy the rebar in the old slab. Then use mortar under and between each block. Watch a couple you tube videos, laying a row or two of blocks is fairly simple. You can even cheat and lay short chunks of rebar in the mortar under the first and between second row to keep them level. Once the block is laid then go back and pour the voids full of concrete. Now you have your rat wall. If water is an issue coat the exterior of the block with a basement sealant tar etc.


No reason to not use this foundation imo, your foundation is at minimum 50% of your cost.


And if you do lay this block yourself. I vote to have Don be your block and mortar tender. We of course need video of this…….
« Last Edit: May 18, 2023, 08:40:14 PM by stlaser »
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Question of the logic/feasibility of this idea
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2023, 10:17:01 PM »
Would the blocks need to be mortared together?  Or would the concrete inside the voids take care of that.


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I’d drill the current slab every 16” roughly so that the rebar would come up into a void in the block, I’m not a mason so I don’t know what the spacing would be. If you want you could even epoxy the rebar in the old slab. Then use mortar under and between each block. Watch a couple you tube videos, laying a row or two of blocks is fairly simple. You can even cheat and lay short chunks of rebar in the mortar under the first and between second row to keep them level. Once the block is laid then go back and pour the voids full of concrete. Now you have your rat wall. If water is an issue coat the exterior of the block with a basement sealant tar etc.


No reason to not use this foundation imo, your foundation is at minimum 50% of your cost.


And if you do lay this block yourself. I vote to have Don be your block and mortar tender. We of course need video of this…….
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Offline dave945

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Re: Question of the logic/feasibility of this idea
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2023, 10:26:31 PM »
I want to see what his special big monster tree destroyer could do to the existing garage ;)  I’ve built a couple of block walls before and can set block with concrete, just wasn’t sure with something like this if it needed to be mortared together. I’ll check out some YouTube videos and see what the concerns is.  I think the longest part of deconstruction will be pulling out all of the existing wiring/conduit /electrical boxes for salvage or scrap.  There are I think 10 different breaker panels and about 16 different disconnects around the garage. Not to mention a couple of hundred feet of black iron pipe used for both propane and compressed air lines. I’m getting tired just thinking of it.


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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Question of the logic/feasibility of this idea
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2023, 10:44:52 PM »
Think: Cat 953

Rent it for a week. The local rental company has 2-3 of them.

The building is down in 4-hours.

Get 15-20 of your kids to sort through the mess and salvage wire, pipes, and Racoon skeletons.

Or just punch it and haul it all off

Use Cat for the remaining 6 days to do projects around the place.
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Offline JR

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Re: Question of the logic/feasibility of this idea
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2023, 11:45:28 PM »
I would for sure glue the rebar into the slab. Blocks or just a stem wall would work. Either way seal the outside for water if there is a concern. Of course a little grading could solve that.

Yes, the blocks would need to mortared. Wall get cement filled, fences can go every few or where the rebar is.
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Offline dave945

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Re: Question of the logic/feasibility of this idea
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2023, 07:13:14 AM »
I would for sure glue the rebar into the slab. Blocks or just a stem wall would work. Either way seal the outside for water if there is a concern. Of course a little grading could solve that.

Yes, the blocks would need to mortared. Wall get cement filled, fences can go every few or where the rebar is.
My water problems aren’t from grade around the building, when it was built they poured outside driveway/parking pad on the outside at the exact same level as the garage slab. So when it rains, the water sits against the outside wall and can/has puddles against the sill plate.

I figured they would need to be mortared, I guess that was me looking for a shortcut.

As for demo, I was thinking what Don put above, getting a larger loader and mowing it down, burning what will and then burying the rest. The majority of the wiring is in conduit on the surface, so it shouldn’t be too bad to get out. I just thought of another wrinkle I’ll have to figure out. All the power from the house comes from the garage first. There’s a massive power distribution panel in there from when the machine shop was in production. This unit is about 7.5 ft tall.




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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Question of the logic/feasibility of this idea
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2023, 08:02:29 AM »
Can you cut the slab along the outside of the building about 4 inches away from the  foundation and install a continuous drain tile?

Something like this? https://www.lowes.com/pd/NDS-2-in-dia-Channel-Drain-Kit/1001360712?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-plb-_-ggl-_-LIA_PLB_142_Pipe-Fittings-_-1001360712-_-local-_-0-_-0&gbraid=0AAAAAD2B2W9fzjiub2hS7GJyNLIIIdaQw&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxLLO86qB_wIVP9XjBx2QIwJ_EAQYBSABEgKAofD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds


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Offline stlaser

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Re: Question of the logic/feasibility of this idea
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2023, 08:49:12 AM »
Yup ^^^^^^^^

We call the inexpensive version french drains. Some 4” perforated tile and pea gravel would be great at bare minimum if you can open it up.
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Offline JR

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Re: Question of the logic/feasibility of this idea
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2023, 12:31:54 PM »
TRN got to it first, good idea.

Panel looks old, maybe a good time to up grade making the house primary and moving to its wall?
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Question of the logic/feasibility of this idea
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2023, 07:34:50 PM »
I would for sure glue the rebar into the slab. Blocks or just a stem wall would work. Either way seal the outside for water if there is a concern. Of course a little grading could solve that.

Yes, the blocks would need to mortared. Wall get cement filled, fences can go every few or where the rebar is.
My water problems aren’t from grade around the building, when it was built they poured outside driveway/parking pad on the outside at the exact same level as the garage slab. So when it rains, the water sits against the outside wall and can/has puddles against the sill plate.

I figured they would need to be mortared, I guess that was me looking for a shortcut.

As for demo, I was thinking what Don put above, getting a larger loader and mowing it down, burning what will and then burying the rest. The majority of the wiring is in conduit on the surface, so it shouldn’t be too bad to get out. I just thought of another wrinkle I’ll have to figure out. All the power from the house comes from the garage first. There’s a massive power distribution panel in there from when the machine shop was in production. This unit is about 7.5 ft tall.




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Dave, my nephew is a journeyman electrician...about to get his license. He put the panel in my barn. I'd hire him or someone like him to move it, then have the power company inspect and sign it off.
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