AEV Gladiator Rubicon

[JR]

129

[Flyin6]

Shawn's gonna hate me but I purchased a winch

And

It's not a Warn...

Blasphemy

I tried to repent, but in the end, I must admit, I am but a lowly sinner...
;-)

[Flyin6]

More curious what your super tire shop guy says. 


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He is very apologetic. Refunding me the $$$$

[Flyin6]

More curious what your super tire shop guy says. 


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Meh, I’m more curious what Randy’s ring and pinions official response is…….. 

Well aren't you a daisy, lol. Checked in with the ICON fellas on this, and the working theory is that the AEV mods included longer than stock wheel studs for the thicker AEV wheels and possibly a different style lugnut as well, but it's just a theory as lack of complaints does not negate the existence of an issue. Glad you got it solved before you lost a wheel or worse!

My sole interest in this is to prevent anything from happening to anyone else. Dunno what the response should be, not my lane, but a correct pitch, open-end lug nut would solve for all...

[Flyin6]

129

JR is hereby recognized as the only person who got this right!

You are awarded a "get out of being fired" credit

But just one!

[EL TATE]

More curious what your super tire shop guy says. 


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Meh, I’m more curious what Randy’s ring and pinions official response is…….. 

Well aren't you a daisy, lol. Checked in with the ICON fellas on this, and the working theory is that the AEV mods included longer than stock wheel studs for the thicker AEV wheels and possibly a different style lugnut as well, but it's just a theory as lack of complaints does not negate the existence of an issue. Glad you got it solved before you lost a wheel or worse!

My sole interest in this is to prevent anything from happening to anyone else. Dunno what the response should be, not my lane, but a correct pitch, open-end lug nut would solve for all...

Well, I just got off the phone with the "right" person. Turns out we failed to upload notes to the wheel part numbers indicating the necessity of lug nuts for most applications. Fixed now, and even the greenest of salespeople won't be able to ignore the bright red flashing note in our system, thanks to you. Sorry for the headache, and glad nothing was damaged.

[stlaser]

More curious what your super tire shop guy says. 


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Meh, I’m more curious what Randy’s ring and pinions official response is…….. 

Well aren't you a daisy, lol. Checked in with the ICON fellas on this, and the working theory is that the AEV mods included longer than stock wheel studs for the thicker AEV wheels and possibly a different style lugnut as well, but it's just a theory as lack of complaints does not negate the existence of an issue. Glad you got it solved before you lost a wheel or worse!

My sole interest in this is to prevent anything from happening to anyone else. Dunno what the response should be, not my lane, but a correct pitch, open-end lug nut would solve for all...

Well, I just got off the phone with the "right" person. Turns out we failed to upload notes to the wheel part numbers indicating the necessity of lug nuts for most applications. Fixed now, and even the greenest of salespeople won't be able to ignore the bright red flashing note in our system, thanks to you. Sorry for the headache, and glad nothing was damaged.

And there you have it, after all the name calling  we get a very exceptional response which is what we have come to expect from Randy’s ring and pinion. No excuses, just figure out it’s a potential issue and fix it going forward. 

[KensAuto]

Yeah, wheels don't come with nuts, and a huge number of them require spline style.
Definitely not a icon problem.

It's a tire shop problem.

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[stlaser]

Yeah, wheels don't come with nuts, and a huge number of them require spline style.
Definitely not a icon problem.

It's a tire shop problem.

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As someone who has bought a few sets of wheels over the years from various places. I’d agree it’s not Tate’s issue with the improper install. However, I always get the option of proper lugnuts with wheels and if you don’t offer it then you’re going to have unhappy customers. Randy’s typically does a great job of including things that may be needed.

[Sammconn]

129

JR is hereby recognized as the only person who got this right!

You are awarded a "get out of being fired" credit

But just one!

Seems I missed something here.
Good on ya for the get of fired card Fred…lol

What is the significance of 129 that we all else missed?

Don edit: He called the wrong lug nut as a possible issue way back on post #129

[JR]

Kinda like where i worked before. one atta boy vs all the other things.

Glad it was resolved with no damage or injury. I would inspect the wheels though. Could be some damage with that much play.

[wyorunner]

Kinda like where i worked before. one atta boy vs all the other things.

Glad it was resolved with no damage or injury. I would inspect the wheels though. Could be some damage with that much play.

This was my thought, but I’ll also run broken things soo, maybe not the best judge…. Or lost threads on the studs?

[Flyin6]

No damage that anyone could see. A couple of notable thread indentions into the aluminum stud bores, not bad

Not Randy's or ICON's fault

Blame fell on the tire shop, who refunded my money and apologized. They will give new wheel installations a good shake in the future.

I'm happy, sounds like future buyers will get the information so it's all good, was handled properly, and life goes on. Fred still keeps the "get outta gettin' fired (again)" card!

[Sammconn]

Read it back there and totally didn’t register post #…lol.
Now I’m up to speed and anyone else like me who was having a duuu moment.

Glad it’s fixed and made right.
Could have been all kinds of bad.

[Flyin6]

So, looking out ahead some, I am thinking about the overland build on this JT

I have been assembling a spreadsheet on campers that bolt onto the top of the bed rails.

The Alu-Cab is my favorite so far. Here's a great build-out of one that would approximate what I might do.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=2020+Jeep+Gladiator+Bed+Camper&&view=detail&mid=B7A7057CB792E461EC9DB7A7057CB792E461EC9D&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3D2020%2BJeep%2BGladiator%2BBed%2BCamper%26FORM%3DVDMHRS

[halsey]

So, looking out ahead some, I am thinking about the overland build on this JT

I have been assembling a spreadsheet on campers that bolt onto the top of the bed rails.

The Alu-Cab is my favorite so far. Here's a great build-out of one that would approximate what I might do.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=2020+Jeep+Gladiator+Bed+Camper&&view=detail&mid=B7A7057CB792E461EC9DB7A7057CB792E461EC9D&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3D2020%2BJeep%2BGladiator%2BBed%2BCamper%26FORM%3DVDMHRS

Nice rig.. have you looked at A/T Overland, Mario Donovans company in Prescott AZ? Mario is a first class guy and a true real man.

[Flyin6]

So, looking out ahead some, I am thinking about the overland build on this JT

I have been assembling a spreadsheet on campers that bolt onto the top of the bed rails.

The Alu-Cab is my favorite so far. Here's a great build-out of one that would approximate what I might do.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=2020+Jeep+Gladiator+Bed+Camper&&view=detail&mid=B7A7057CB792E461EC9DB7A7057CB792E461EC9D&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3D2020%2BJeep%2BGladiator%2BBed%2BCamper%26FORM%3DVDMHRS

Nice rig.. gave you looked at A/T Overland, Mario Donovans company in Prescott AZ? Mario is a first class guy and a true real man.

AT is on the list as is a total of five manufacturers at the moment.
This brings up a great point, or a bunch of good points for discussion:

One huge consideration, though is that almost all of the US manufacturers and one CA manufacturer is located 1,500 or more miles away. This AT camper for example is a pacific time zone operation. What that means to me is very little exposure to guys like me in the Midwest. Alu-Cab, by contrast has an installer two hours away. There are several Alu-Cab-equipped vehicles in Cincinnati!

Another consideration is that anything manufactured and sold left of the Mississippi just costs more. I don't know why, but you can buy anything a lot cheaper here than in CA or NV or AZ, especially CA.

Finally, I'd have to drive 3,500-4,000 miles to pick up that A/T camper. There are the costs for hotels out and back and all that expensive gas. That would add another $1000-$1,500 to the cost. Ship it here you say? Well, that's around $1700 and again added to a very inflated west coast price for a unit I'd have to buy sight unseen.

I'm doing what I can to educate myself through YouTube, but to be honest all the US manufacturers are losing out because of the reasons I have made note of.

Next, I have to ask myself, who is going to support me with service and parts when, essentially, there is a continent in-between us?

And the final point I have to consider is that almost all of the US and Canadian manufacturers are new kids on the block. Alu-Cab has been building that product in South Africa for more than two decades primarily for the African adventure market, but also for the rest of the world.

Now I'd like to buy US first, but that's a tall ask, all things considered.

[halsey]

All good points for Alucab. Having known Mario for more than 20 years he started his company around 2000. He spent many years in Africa including 3 times to the top of Kilamanjaro. Stands by everything he does. But yeah it's far from you so extra hassle and expense.

[Flyin6]

All good points for Alucab. Having known Mario for more than 20 years he started his company around 2000. He spent many years in Africa including 3 times to the top of Kilamanjaro. Stands by everything he does. But yeah it's far from you so extra hassle and expense.

So it sounds like you know the owner quite well...
Maybe you mention me to him and what I'm looking for. Maybe he has some ideas. I'll be spending a lot of time in the Daniel Boone, with trips over to Arkansas. I will someday venture out to at least Utah.
I'm not ruling out a west coast manufacturer, just saying it adds cost, complication, and a very long drive (X2) to the prospect.

[Flyin6]

Here's a humorous side note:

I sold the AEV wheels today to a university professor, a great guy! He had a gladiator

He heads up their graphics design department/program.

(I hope he joins the site!)

Check out the design he came up with for his JT:

[JR]

 

[stlaser]

Don, you need one that says mall mulchbed rated

[Flyin6]

Don, you need one that says mall mulchbed rated

I told him the story while he looked over the Suburban. We both laughed!

So as I refine my model, I am now thinking I may not opt for placing the spare tire on the rear bumper.
Here's a couple of reasons:
First, the vehicle was designed to carry the tire there.
Next, now having removed it once and replaced it while upgrading wheels, I found it to be pretty easy to do.
If I add in a rear topper/rooftop tent unit like the Aluma-Cab, then I'll always have to open and swing away the rear tire first, instead of simply climbing in.
The center of gravity will be lower compared to moving it up three feet.
There is no added cost to just keeping things the way they are now.
Finally, it is well-fitted the way it is now

Having now researched five well-built bed shells/clamshell campers, none of them support an integral spare tire carrier. Only Alu-Cap can be fitted with a spare tire carrier, but that can only accommodate up to a 33" diameter tire.

Good, I think I can comfortably accept this decision and move on...

[Flyin6]

So, my leg is not working as it should
What do ya know!
Yea, from the recent back surgery, my surgeon says the nerve that motors my leg seems to be extra irritated so that has the effect of causing pain and I can deal with that, but I can't lift up my leg from the hip as easily as I used to be able to.

Why do I even mention this?
Well, did anyone notice just how tall that JT of mine is?
Ya, I'm having trouble getting into and out of the thing

That just drove a couple of decisions about this build
First, I canceled the order for my JT rock sliders which would have kicked out a bar a few inches making me have to step over that which may prove pretty challenging.
and
I discovered Rough Country is now building its own line of Electric truck steps. They make a special heavy-duty one for JL and JT jeeps which has three mount/hinge points in lieu of the traditional two that AMP Research uses.

The guy I ordered the steps from, Andrew at Extreme Jeeps said I needed to order the AMP Research steps, but those cost $1000 more than the Rough Country steps. And here's my rub with Amp. When I purchased the set for my D-Max truck, those AMP steps I bolted on that truck had a lifetime warranty. Well, when the step twisted up from use, they DID NOT warranty the step, claiming my truck twisted, and I had been lubing the folding mechanism with WD-40 instead of a dry film lubricant.

I checked my pins and sure enough, they are all nice and tight, so I did not cause any wear, I only gave them an excuse to avoid having to fix their bendy product.

Anyway, I bought the things and will bolt them on when they get here...soon, I hope

https://www.roughcountry.com/rc-jeep-electric-running-board-steps-psb42022.html?find=2022-jeep-gladiator-jt-4wd-856061&sid=MURZVV34Xg

[JR]

Nice. I know the feeling of not moving as you used to.

[Flyin6]

I could tell quite a long story about "expert sales people".
The truth is a lot of them don't have any idea what they are talking about
So
Do not call and ask a sales guy to give you advice, as it will likely be bad
Mine tried to steer me toward the AMP Research steps. So I asked him why. He said everyone wanted them. Me: Everyone like all the 21-year-old mall crawlers?
Him: Silence
Me: you said AMP stands behind their product, but when I went back to them for a warped board on my truck they refused to honor the claim and said my truck cab/frame was bent.
Him: Oh really? I have never heard a complaint on AMP
Me: You said the Rough Country wasn't as good, why are you saying that?
Him: Not many people order them
Me: Could that be because no one has ever heard about Rough Country running boards? Amp has been around 15 years and Rough Country 18 months, do you think that has something to do with it?
Him: yes, I guess so, but AMP is strong.
ME: I am looking at the Rough Country boards. They have three hinges and three attachment points, whereas the AMP has two. Which do you think is stronger?
And so it went, and I ordered the RC units.

[stlaser]

Don, I hope RC steps are better than 99% of everything else they build…..

[Flyin6]

Don, I hope RC steps are better than 99% of everything else they build…..

Ya, me too, and I know about RC quality.

THing is, right now @$2K + for the AMP steps I would have had to do without altogether. Perhaps I'll have some good news and they will 1. Work well, and 2. Last as long as the AMP steps do.

[TexasRedNeck]

I’ve had amp steps on the Bus for 8 years without (knock wood) issue.


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[Flyin6]

I’ve had amp steps on the Bus for 8 years without (knock wood) issue.


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Got cha beat, 10 years for the D-max
Note that you paid something like a grand then, and now they are $2K and the warranty has rolled back from lifetime to 60,000 miles

[Bigdave_185]

How much lift is on the jeep?


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[Flyin6]

How much lift is on the jeep?


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AEV uses around 3". The stock Rubicon has 33" tires, the JT370 AEV uses 37", so 4"/2=2" additional lift for a total of 5" suspension and tire

[Flyin6]

Two more fuel consumption checks to report

Both were for approximately a 1/2 tank fill-up

I do not like to run my fuel tanks below 1/2 tank on any vehicle

1st fill-up: 15.5  There's a lot of in-town driving in there. In vehicle, indicator showed 16.8*

2nd fill-up: 17.5 This is a good balance of urban/rural/highway. In vehicle, computer showed 16.9*

* Fuel mileage calculator computes the fuel economy for the preceding 50 miles, hence the delta that is showing up a lot of the time.

[Flyin6]

99% chance you are not geared correctly for the tires. for most gladiators with addons and 37+ rubber 4.88 is a minimum requirement. you're likely to get away without re-gearing since it's a rubicon, but the trans will thank you for the change if you do it. Automatic right? I'm betting you're not touching the overdrives in its current configuration.

Very nice jeep BTW.

It's upshifting to OD, Tate. Pretty sure of it. And yes, an 8-speed auto.

Would never think of regearing, it is what it is and I personally think AEV did a pretty good job of it. Are they your customer? Am I using Yukon parts inside those tiny-looking axles.

That's the only thing that makes me nervous is seeing tiny little Dana 44's where a 14-bolt and a D60 front ought to be. But it has a warranty, and I am going to wheel it, so if stuff should break, I'll let Jeep worry about it.

I do get what you're saying though. Jeep's factory offering with 35" tires and a stick offers the truck with 4.88's

Bring this older post forward.
Credit is given where credit is due
Tate is correct, this Jeep is under-geared with 4.56 and 37" tires
Today I made a 150-mile run to/from Lexington on Highway 75. To see if Tate was correct, I shifted it into manual shift mode quite a lot. Doing so immediately displays on the dash which gear the transmission is in. Almost never on any upgrade, regardless of how slight, did I see the number 8. I saw 7 a lot of the time, and the number 6 quite a bit as well. I even saw #5 once!
I was trying to maintain 70 mph and the gas mileage fell from nearly 17 down to the low 15s.
Next, I increased the speed from 70 to 74. The result was nearly the same and increasing the speed anymore beyond that it just stayed in a lower gear with the engine howling.
This engine for sure is underpowered in my opinion. It is always working at the top of its power curve with very little if any reserve.
I can concur with Tate's initial statement that in lieu of adding a bunch of engine power, the gearing will have to be changed. We had a conversation yesterday about this and settled in on a consensus that pointed to regearing to 5.13.

This actually has a profound effect on the planned modifications I was looking into for my JT. I had been researching canopies with rooftop tents and kitting out the back end with everything I'd need for an overnight or two in the Daniel Boone National Forest.

But now, I am certain I need to address this low-power situation this Jeep is suffering from. It is inconvenient now, but I could certainly live with it. But, my fear is that if I added 800 pounds and some more wind resistance, the poor motor would have zero chance of keeping up and my mileage would suffer as a result.

No absolute plans at the moment, but after Christmas, I think I will be hunting a gear change.

[JR]

I think I heard that many are going to 5.33 for the larger tires. You have a smallish V6 engine and the power is higher. Thats just 4% lower.

Both you and I have the Dmax geared at 4.56 with 35 tires. Even that torquey thing likes around 2k (70mph).

[EL TATE]

I think I heard that many are going to 5.33 for the larger tires. You have a smallish V6 engine and the power is higher. Thats just 4% lower.

Both you and I have the Dmax geared at 4.56 with 35 tires. Even that torquey thing likes around 2k (70mph).

we went through all the numbers, and if it's a dedicated moab rock bouncer 5.38 would be ideal, but for his general use and not living at 6000 ft like some hippies, 5.13 will give him a small break on fuel mileage and still get him into overdrive when it should.

[wilsonphil]

I think jeeps logic on this was you will normally never see 8th.  A couple people I know that have the Rubicon in stock form said the same thing it rarely goes into 8th.  Just jeeps way of of getting the MPG up so CAFE/EPA doesn't come knocking

[Flyin6]

I think jeeps logic on this was you will normally never see 8th.  A couple people I know that have the Rubicon in stock form said the same thing it rarely goes into 8th.  Just jeeps way of of getting the MPG up so CAFE/EPA doesn't come knocking

That's an interesting theory.
But
If
It
has
the 8th gear, why not take advantage of it?

So, Tater, since you know as much as I do about shops in my A.O....Who do you recommend I go to for the transformation?

[Flyin6]

BTW,
The estimate for that Alu-Cab came in at $19,035!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Flyin6]

I know, I know
Don't bother saying it
"Stroke the check..."

[EL TATE]

I think jeeps logic on this was you will normally never see 8th.  A couple people I know that have the Rubicon in stock form said the same thing it rarely goes into 8th.  Just jeeps way of of getting the MPG up so CAFE/EPA doesn't come knocking

That's an interesting theory.
But
If
It
has
the 8th gear, why not take advantage of it?

So, Tater, since you know as much as I do about shops in my A.O....Who do you recommend I go to for the transformation?

Cincinnati driveilne or whoever put the LML together, they did a great job.

in KY proper, Peck's customs in Wickliff does a lot of these but they are 4.5 hrs away. next up would be the V3 Jeep Shop in Louisvile.

[wilsonphil]

I think jeeps logic on this was you will normally never see 8th.  A couple people I know that have the Rubicon in stock form said the same thing it rarely goes into 8th.  Just jeeps way of of getting the MPG up so CAFE/EPA doesn't come knocking

That's an interesting theory.
But
If
It
has
the 8th gear, why not take advantage of it?
 

So, Tater, since you know as much as I do about shops in my A.O....Who do you recommend I go to for the transformation?

Thats easy, so it doesn't break.

[JR]

Well, you sold the electric thingy, you have the $$$ even with the 60K tag! Its only $$$, just think what you have in the sub that site there.

Neighbor has a rubicon, said he drives in manual to keep it in 7th. Just jumps all over otherwise.

Maybe a little tune would help and just delete 8th?

[TexasRedNeck]

Or a re-gear and a trans tune for a second gear start unless are crawling?


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[Flyin6]

Tuning is out of the question at the moment as Mopar just brought in a new ECM effective August 2021

Having said that, I was looking at the dyno tests Rippie did on their new ignition coil replacements.

It's pretty amazing, but they found 45 ft/lbs in the lower RPM band over the stockers. 45 is a bunch.

So I was thinking that the regear and addition of these new coils might be a quick cure to get me back on track to adding some weight and retaining stock performance. Do that and see what that does.

[kampfitt]

https://www.truckcamperadventure.com/6-best-truck-topper-campers-for-the-jeep-gladiator/?utm_source=mailpoet&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=truck-camper-news_129

[JR]

Pretty good for just coils. Heck that and a regear?

Those are nice options there for the camper. I think Don has his PC set for "find the highest price".

Just got new wires and plugs for the Tahoe. Has 135K now and think all that is stock. Never heard of coil packs helping that much on the LS, wish I could find info.

[Flyin6]

https://www.truckcamperadventure.com/6-best-truck-topper-campers-for-the-jeep-gladiator/?utm_source=mailpoet&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=truck-camper-news_129

That is an excellent source for the JT platform. I'll no doubt spend a couple of hours poring over these. I will say, I have already thoroughly investigated the Go-Fast2 unit, and it's great!

[Flyin6]

Pretty good for just coils. Heck that and a regear?

Those are nice options there for the camper. I think Don has his PC set for "find the highest price".

Just got new wires and plugs for the Tahoe. Has 135K now and think all that is stock. Never heard of coil packs helping that much on the LS, wish I could find info.

Yea, I am thinking that I should get into a re-gear PDQ and toss in those coils. I now have several sources that show just how effective those coils are.
Has to do with the design of the cylinder head and how at low speeds that motor can only deliver incomplete combustion. Turning up the temp of the ignition apparently burns all the crap the Catalytic converters were having to burn. Take a look at the vid. 45 ft/lbs at 1500-2000RPM is crazy good, almost like a low-boost supercharger.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeS3_liE99c

So let's evaluate these changes and proceed from there

But, wait, there's more!

One thing I have noticed is a lot of heavy steel bash/skid plates hanging all over.
Ever see the use of HDPE plastic sheets as skid plates? Like 1/4th the weight of steel and pretty darned strong. So, Don was thinking of putting the Jeep on a big-time diet. Remove everything it doesn't need. That and re-engineer it to be lighter. Replacing those steel skid plates with plastic ones that are really good at sliding over rocks to see if I can get a few hundred pounds off of it.

[JR]

Diet good, just don't get carried away up top.