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Offline Flyin6

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Pistol cartridge performance
« on: December 06, 2015, 08:10:07 PM »
Easy to see why you don't want to carry a .380 (or anything smaller) as a self defense gun



Pistols

(1) 25 ACP 50 gr @ 760 fps, Momentum = 5.4 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 64 ft lbs [1]

(2) 32 ACP 65 gr @ 950 fps, Momentum = 8.8 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 130 ft lbs [3]
(3) 32 ACP 71 gr @ 905 fps, Momentum = 9.2 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 129 ft lbs [2]

(4) 380 Auto, 88 gr @ 1000 fps, Momentum = 12.1 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 195 ft lbs [5]
(5) 380 Auto, 90 gr @ 955 fps, Momentum = 13.0 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 182 ft lbs [4]

(12) 9mm, 115 gr @ 1155 fps, Momentum = 19.0 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 341ft lbs [15]
(13) 9mm, 124 gr @ 1120 fps, Momentum = 19.8 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 345 ft lbs [16]
(17) 9mm, 147 gr @ 990 fps, Momentum = 20.8 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 320 ft lbs [13]

(24) 357 SIG, 115 gr @ 1564 fps, Momentum = 25.7 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 625 ft lbs [35]*
(19) 357 SIG, 124 gr @ 1329 fps, Momentum = 23.5 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 486 ft lbs [29]
(20) 357 SIG, 147 gr @ 1186 fps, Momentum = 24.9 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 459 ft lbs [28]

(21) 40 S&W, 155 gr @ 1150 fps, Momentum = 25.2 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 455 ft lbs [27]
(26) 40 S&W, 165 gr @ 1110 fps, Momentum = 26.2 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 452 ft lbs [26]
(22) 40 S&W, 180 gr @ 990 fps, Momentum = 25.5 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 392 ft lbs [19]

(27) 45 ACP, 185 gr @ 1000 fps, Momentum = 26.4 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 411 ft lbs [23]
(29) 45 ACP, 200 gr @ 940 fps, Momentum = 26.9 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 393 ft lbs [20]
(30) 45 ACP, 230 gr @ 850 fps, Momentum = 27.9 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 369 ft lbs [18]

(34) 10mm Auto, 155 gr @ 1410 fps, Momentum = 31.2 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 684 ft lbs [36]
(35) 10mm Auto, 180 gr @ 1240 fps, Momentum = 31.9 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 615 ft lbs [34]
(36) 10mm Auto, 200 gr @ 1050 fps, Momentum = 32.9 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 587 ft lbs [33]

Revolvers

(6) 32 H&R Mag, 85 gr @ 1100 fps, Momentum = 13.4 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 228 ft lbs [7]
(7) 32 H&R Mag, 95 gr @ 1030 fps, Momentum = 14.0 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 224 ft lbs [6]

(9) 327 Fed Mag, 85 gr @ 1330 fps, Momentum = 16.1 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 334 ft lbs [14]
(14) 327 Fed, Mag 100 gr @ 1400 fps, Momentum = 20.0 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 435 ft lbs [25]
(18) 327 Fed, Mag 115 gr @ 1300 fps, Momentum = 21.4 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 432 ft lbs [24]

(8) 38 Spec, 110 gr @ 1000 fps, Momentum = 15.7 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 244 ft lbs [8]
(10) 38 Spec, 125 gr @ 950 fps, Momentum = 17.0 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 251 ft lbs [9]
(11) 38 Spec, 140 gr @ 900 fps, Momentum = 18.0 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 252 ft lbs [10]
(15) 38 Spec, 158 gr @ 890 fps, Momentum = 20.1 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 278 ft lbs [11]

(16) 357 Mag, 110 gr @ 1295 fps, Momentum = 20.4 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 410 ft lbs [21]
(25) 357 Mag, 125 gr @ 1450 fps, Momentum = 25.9 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 584 ft lbs [32]
(31) 357 Mag, 140 gr @ 1360 fps, Momentum = 27.2 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 575 ft lbs [31]
(32) 357 Mag, 158 gr @ 1235 fps, Momentum = 27.9 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 535 ft lbs [30]

(37) 41 Mag, 170 gr @ 1420 fps, Momentum = 34.5 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 761 ft lbs [37]
(38) 41 Mag, 210 gr @ 1300 fps, Momentum = 39.0 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 788 ft lbs [38]

(23) 44 Spec, 200 gr @ 900 fps, Momentum = 25.7 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 360 ft lbs [17]
(28) 44 Spec, 246 gr @ 755 fps, Momentum = 26.5 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 311 ft lbs [12]

(40) 44 Mag, 180 gr @ 1610 fps, Momentum = 41.4 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 1036 ft lbs [44]
(39) 44 Mag, 200 gr @ 1420 fps, Momentum = 40.6 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 896 ft lbs [41]
(42) 44 Mag, 240 gr @ 1350 fps, Momentum = 46.3 lb-f/s - Muzzle Energy = 971 ft lbs [43]

*(41) 45 Colt 225 gr @ 1350 fps, Momentum = 43.4 lb-f/s – Muzzle Energy = 911 ft lbs [40]
(33) 45 Colt, 250 gr @ 860 fps, Momentum = 30.7 lb-f/s – Muzzle Energy = 411 ft lbs [22]
*(43) 45 Colt, 250 gr @ 1250 fps, Momentum = 44.6 lb-f/s – Muzzle Energy = 868 ft lbs [39]
*(44) 45 Colt, 300 gr @ 1200 fps, Momentum = 51.4 lb-f/s – Muzzle Energy = 959 ft lbs [42]
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Offline stlaser

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Re: Pistol cartridge performance
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2015, 08:23:39 PM »
I didn't realize how impressive that 10mm cartridge performs. Next Glock may need to be a 10mm. Hate the idea of stocking another caliber but hard to beat it seems.
Living in the remote north hoping Ken doesn’t bring H up here any time soon…..

Offline Flyin6

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Re: Pistol cartridge performance
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2015, 09:40:44 PM »
I didn't realize how impressive that 10mm cartridge performs. Next Glock may need to be a 10mm. Hate the idea of stocking another caliber but hard to beat it seems.
Its a big one Shawn, like G21 size I believe
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Offline stlaser

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Re: Pistol cartridge performance
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2015, 09:55:47 PM »
Yeah Ash has one. Not concerned with size really. I texted Ash about this wanting to know price & availability of ammo. I have several .40 cal glocks. Been thinking of picking up a lone wolf conversion barrel & mags to run 9 in them. Already have some 9 ammo for another relic I own (not glock). Have been considering another pistol & was thinking .45 or 9 but I could buy say a 21 in .45 & get the 10mm conversion barrel. So I would be gaining 2-3 calibers w/o buying 3 more firearms.
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: Pistol cartridge performance
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2015, 10:06:39 PM »
Amazing how one of the oldest rounds is still one of the most powerful....the 45 long colt.
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Offline stlaser

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Re: Pistol cartridge performance
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2015, 11:49:23 PM »
My old FFL kept a loaded .45 schofield under the counter. Most people have never heard of this round.....
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Pistol cartridge performance
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2015, 12:06:24 AM »
I have quite a bit of experience with the G20.  Ammo is not widely available but its also factory loaded to a wimpy level.  Long story behind it, but it was the FBIs round of choice until it was found that most agents could not control the recoil so it was down loaded and someone decided it didn't need a case that long if it wasn't going to be filled...thus the .40S&W was born...

The factory Glock chamber is relatively unsupported at the bottom to facilitate reliability and ease of feeding.  This can lead to bulging of brass in that area (glock smile). Hot loads can rupture catastrophically.



So if you plan on playing with the 10mm, you better get a aftermarket barrel.  I like the KKM. You can see here that the KKM is very supported which allows for higher pressure loads.  I also recommend a heavier recoil spring to keep the frame from being beat to death.  I have a 23lb Wolff recoil spring and it still throws brass 20 feet.

I've loaded as hot as I feel comfortable with, but there is likely more room in it.  Virgin brass, Hornady XTP 200gn, and IMR800X.  I won't post the recipie here because people who made read this and blow themselves up.

Suffice to say, 1350fps with a 200gn hollowpoint is a smoking powerful round.  809 lb/ft to be exact. More powerful than a .41mag and in a semi auto with 14 rounds capacity..

This makes for a hog killing machine but may be a legal liability if used in self defense in a liberal jurisdiction as some DAs have tried to use powerful handloads against a defendant.

I love the G20, you can swap barrels and mags with the 21 and shoot 45ACP also.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2015, 12:09:42 AM by TexasRedNeck »
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Offline stlaser

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Re: Pistol cartridge performance
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2015, 12:15:06 AM »
Nice info, appreciate the feedback. I'll nudge Ash over this way as I don't think he knows about all of this glock smiling stuff.
Living in the remote north hoping Ken doesn’t bring H up here any time soon…..

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Pistol cartridge performance
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2015, 12:22:31 AM »
Glad to help.  You just want to avoid something like this...




Here is a good comparison on the G20 barrels.

« Last Edit: December 07, 2015, 12:23:28 AM by TexasRedNeck »
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Pistol cartridge performance
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2015, 12:25:53 AM »
Oh, and thanks Don, for making me feel bad about my choice to carry tonight to the Nutcracker ballet with the family.

I had a Ruger LCP 380 in my suit jacket inside pocket......figured it was good for contact shooting if all else failed.
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Offline Dawg25385

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Re: Pistol cartridge performance
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2015, 08:56:27 AM »
Would still rather have a 380 than nothin!


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Offline halsey

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Re: Pistol cartridge performance
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2015, 09:40:22 AM »

this looks to be a good buy on a glock 23 in KY

http://benchrest.com/class/index.php?a=2&b=9498

Offline JR

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Re: Pistol cartridge performance
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2015, 04:54:06 PM »
The 380 will do the job, but I still prefer a 40sw, then the 9mm. I do like my little L C P for a pocket gun and +p gets you very close to 9mm performance.

Many of the charts I see show 11-1200fps and almost 300 ft lbs.

I know a couple guys who shoot the 10mm round. Because ammo is scarce or the FBI load they load their own with a SS barrel.

I may look at a 9mm barrel for my 23 just for the shooting fun. I do have an older SW469, was my dads but never felt right in my hand.

Now here is some nasty looking 380 ammo!!
« Last Edit: December 07, 2015, 07:30:11 PM by JR »
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Pistol cartridge performance
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2015, 07:10:13 PM »
Amazing how one of the oldest rounds is still one of the most powerful....the 45 long colt.
Back then Men who were getting shot at were mostly real men. Real men don't have spindly legs, or jelly filled spines. Took a bigger bullet to kill a man back then. These days a couple women insult a guy and he jumps off a roof into someone's flower bed trying to do himself in. A guy like that would fall if hit by a .22 short!
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Offline JR

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Re: Pistol cartridge performance
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2015, 07:43:20 PM »
Went they only like 5,6 back then and life expectancy was around 55 too? Add a few layers of clothes, old powder and such.
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Pistol cartridge performance
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2015, 09:25:30 PM »
JR, that;s interesting ammo.  Who makes it?

Id sure like to see the performance through heavy clothing over gelatin.  Sometimes a heavy denim jacket can wreak havoc on a ballistics test.
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Offline JR

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« Last Edit: December 07, 2015, 10:18:08 PM by JR »
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Pistol cartridge performance
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2015, 11:22:48 PM »
Thanks JR.  Just ordered a couple of boxes.  Hopefully I never have to find out if it really works as advertised. Certainly at point blank range it will do the trick if I'm trying to scrape by with a 380 instead of a big bore round.
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Offline JR

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Re: Pistol cartridge performance
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2015, 11:55:19 PM »
That is some nasty looking stuff alright. I could even use CC as it has to be off the shelf ammo, no handloads.

I was looking for ballistics for the 380 +p to add to the above and it came up.

Reminds me old "Black Talon" we used to use. Had to change the name as they thought it sounded like it was meant for use on a race, not bad guy. Still the same stuff. 
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Offline cudakidd53

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Re: Pistol cartridge performance
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2015, 06:54:33 AM »
That is some nasty looking stuff alright. I could even use CC as it has to be off the shelf ammo, no handloads.

I was looking for ballistics for the 380 +p to add to the above and it came up.

Reminds me old "Black Talon" we used to use. Had to change the name as they thought it sounded like it was meant for use on a race, not bad guy. Still the same stuff.

What's the current name on it JR?  Still have some original and looking for replacement/additional stock........ 8)
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Pistol cartridge performance
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2015, 07:46:21 AM »
Is that another goofy CA law?  No hand loads?  Sure the crimnals will obey that too, like the hi cap magazine and fixed magazines that allowed those "religion of peace" followers to spray 65 rounds in less than a minute?

Makes the liberals feel all warm and fuzzy though..."look! we did something to make us safer!, you come to my wine and cheese party and pat me on the back and I'll come to yours!"
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Offline stlaser

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Re: Pistol cartridge performance
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2015, 09:07:42 AM »
Makes the liberals feel all warm and fuzzy though..."look! we did something to make us safer!, you come to my wine and cheese party and pat me on the back and I'll come to yours!"

Easy, I like wine & cheese......
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Pistol cartridge performance
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2015, 09:51:35 AM »
ROFL, me too, just not the closed minded liberals that often go with it....

Manchego, Maytag Blue, Brie, Aged Parm, maybe a little soppressata to go with it and a St. Emillion red
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Pistol cartridge performance
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2015, 10:27:38 AM »
Is that another goofy CA law?  No hand loads?  Sure the crimnals will obey that too, like the hi cap magazine and fixed magazines that allowed those "religion of peace" followers to spray 65 rounds in less than a minute?

Makes the liberals feel all warm and fuzzy though..."look! we did something to make us safer!, you come to my wine and cheese party and pat me on the back and I'll come to yours!"
I was talking to a guy around here who hand loaded up some stuff for our deputies. He actually loaded in two bullets and some other stuff, weird powder and so forth.
No one checked, then one day a bad guy got to be the training aid. Killed the guy deader than a stump. According to the story, some catastrophic damage and all that. Said he looked more like he was hit by a RPG than a bullet.

If I remember he loaded a modified hollow point with a lead full wad cutter which he cut down behind that...
Sherriff let the boys run the stuff out on the range, but as the story goes, kept some...

Oh, the loader? A Texas transplant to the Tucky
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« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 10:28:31 AM by Flyin6 »
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Offline JR

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Re: Pistol cartridge performance
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2015, 10:53:20 AM »
Do we know that guy from Tucky????????

Remember all the guns were bought legally, but not by the shooters. They added standard 30 magazines, removing the BB and then maybe modded them for full auto? 

The media is so stupid, kinda like Sen Boxer who point guns at people during speeches, has a CCW but you shouldn't.

Ammo must be commercial is all, so that stuff is good. Right now I carry the Talons and old silver tips (for warewolves and vampires)
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Offline Armalite

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Re: Pistol cartridge performance
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2015, 08:27:20 PM »
Yep, I do have the Glock Model 20 in 10mm.  I rarely shoot it, but it stays in my truck for personal use, and goes on my side when out and about in the woods or unknown territory.  Loaded with Corbon 200 grain rounds, and it does the trick.  If I have to shoot, it needs to be to kill, not wound...  Just saying...

Love the 10mm, haven't had any issues with casing bulge, but, I've never really checked for it either.  It always went bang when I pulled the trigger.  I always play around with my Glock 9mm because the ammo is a lot cheaper and I have several thousand rounds.  Only have about 100 rounds of 10mm of the good stuff.   

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Pistol cartridge performance
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2015, 08:50:11 PM »
Like a buddy once said. "Leave only one story to be told"


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