WEAPONS > Less Than Lethal

Really

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JR:
But of course we need this.

I have rubber 12g buckshot, lots of pepper spray for a start.

TexasRedNeck:
I happened to get my hands on some CS rubber durometer rounds.  From about 20 yards, they make a real impression and release CS.  That's often the first round in my 12 ga followed by #4 Federal with slugs in the carrier.

I also have some bore thunder flash bangs that can get someone's attention, but I'm not a fan of loading them in the weapon.  In a pinch the rubber rounds at close range can slow them down enough to rack the buckshot, the bang won't buy you any time.

KensAuto:
I personally don't believe in "less than lethal". If it's a situation that's bad enough for me to have to point a gun at someone, I don't want my rounds to bounce.
I can see the usefulness in LE, but for me, no.
So, Someone's out back stealing a chicken because he's starving? ok, he might get a warning shot (or a leg wound).
Raping a daughter (anyone's)? A few to the chest.

Go ahead guys, start whipping on me.

Flyin6:

--- Quote from: KensAuto on October 02, 2014, 10:40:29 AM ---I personally don't believe in "less than lethal". If it's a situation that's bad enough for me to have to point a gun at someone, I don't want my rounds to bounce.
I can see the usefulness in LE, but for me, no.
So, Someone's out back stealing a chicken because he's starving? ok, he might get a warning shot (or a leg wound).
Raping a daughter (anyone's)? A few to the chest.

Go ahead guys, start whipping on me.

--- End quote ---

Just to clarify, although this is a valid discussion, when I set up this area, I was thinking of PPCT style hand fighting techniques...no guns or edge weapons
I sort of agree with Ken
Guns are for stopping the threat

As for Shotguns, back in the day I was running with a couple of Seal teams. Knowing that I was a pilot, they got me a Mossberg 500.
They told me to load it with #6 or 7 in the chamber. Follow that with two 00 Buckshot. That is followed by two .50 sabot or slugs, then the rest is something like #2 or #4.

Rationale: You are running from some folks who wish to do harm to you. While running roll the gun behind you and squeeze off the birdshot.
That gets their attention and buys you a second or two
With that time, stop, turn and shoot the closest person with the buckshot, then shoot the second person.
At this point they are wondering what just happened. Infantrymen will go for cover. Pray they roll behind a cinder block wall or a fender of a vehicle.
Aim your next round, a slug at the guy behind the cinder block wall and dispatch him, then do the same with the guy behind the fender.
If you have a gun like mine, you have two more rounds...turn and run squeezing off the next round or two one handed pointing behind you

While you get some distance, you now are empty or have a killing round in the chamber...Load one bird shot, then two slugs, then top off with 00 Buckshot and prepare to do it all again.

JR:
I think most of us are in the same frame of mind here. If a gun is out, play time is over.

CS in 12g, never "used" them but they "may come in handy (wink)

Nice thing with #6 or 7 is if they are close enough it will do the job just fine.

If you have fewer slugs or reaching out ammo, just slightly cut around just above the lower metal case. It will separate when fired and carry the whole mess out farther before it opens up, viola, you have a 00 power in a #6 round.

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