REAL MAN TRUCKWORKS & SURVIVAL
GENERAL TOPICS => Parenting => Topic started by: EL TATE on August 06, 2015, 12:46:56 PM
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Oh the irony. Woke up this am at 0430 to my lab announcing my son's staggering return up the driveway. Turns out this new "friend" of his was in the neighborhood last night and talked him into sneaking out and meeting him at the park a few blocks away from our house. Hands covered in tell tale red fireball stains from coming back up. He's never done anything like this before, is unusually open and honest for a 17 year old about everything he does normally, so this has me thrown a bit off. I don't want him around this kid ever again, but I also don't want to push too hard and have him continue to sneak around because he feels cornered. He's sleeping it off now, Cyndie works from home so she'll be the first assault when he wakes up. I'm sure he'll be hungover all day, so that's the start of his punishment. Anyone been through this and have any insight? I'm only 35 and the last time I had to deal with something like this it was my younger sister when we were in high school. I wound up being the one scolding her because my parents were in the middle of their divorce and couldn't handle it. She professed to hating me for years afterwards but then later realized I was doing it because I loved her. just would rather skip the years of hating this time and go straight to understanding.
Thanks,
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Sorry Tate, I went through this 25 years ago and know how you are feeling. Be up front and let him know how bad you feel and that the trust level just went in the tank. Do be careful not to push him away from the family and trust in God that he will make the right choices from here on out. Be there for him when he wants to lean on you. It will work out but could be a rough road for a bit, took Like 6+ years for us.
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Thanks, that's kind of my game plan. In between vomiting he was crying and apologizing. I think he got caught up, but the first mistake was sneaking out of the house. Makes me want to put it on lockdown with an alarm system now.
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I just want to make sure I am understanding correctly before I offer a recommendation. he was caught sneaking back in and drunk on top of it?
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If he thinks he is getting away with it then it will get worse. Perhaps a motion sensor camera system so you know he is gone, then ask where he was, knowing he was gone. At 17 I was away or at home with no restrictions, Gone all night all the time and could buy alcohol at will, but I knew what as right.
I am about to put a camera in the hall by my kids room and possibly in my daughters room (thinks she 22 not 12) Right now I am the meanest guy in the world and blame her for everything!! I have a camera on the TV/front door already. Knowing when they come and go is huge. At least monitor the doors, even if they don't know
Remember at that age we all know it all and parents get in the way of fun. If he has the solid base and backing he will be fine, he may have to sew his oats a little.
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Tate that's a tough one. First no compromise. Your house , your rules. If he makes a bad mistake you are liable because he is not an adult.
Second, dishonesty is a sin and sneaking around is because he knows he's doing something wrong. Take him to the morgue and let him see first hand the impact that drunkenness has.
Let him know that he has lost the most precious thing, your trust. He will have to earn it back but until them he will be monitored.
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My wife had a good head start tonight. Came home to a clean as a whistle garden and front yard. Had him sweating out his hangover in the 80 degree heat. Also brought over our good friend that had been involved with gangs since he was 11 till around 2003, when he left Colorado to raise his daughter in a safe environment rather than a turf war. Talked some sense into him before I got home. Then, by the time I arrived it was apologies and contrition. Phone is gone. Car is gone, computer is gone. I told him I couldn't really judge on the drinking, considering my own past but the loss of trust was the worst offense. The drinking just compounded it. He knows he s'd the bed, but we're not letting him off either. Right now for lack of funds I have simple screaming alarms that activate when the window or door is opened in mind. To answer your question nate, he snuck out around 1 or so and at the very least had a sober friend bring him home at 445. Barely stumbled up the stairs. Had him on his side until I had to leave for work in case there was more vomiting, but he was OK. Apparently he'd had 2/3 of a 5th of vodka, I'm sure trying to impress somebody. The funny thing was he had no interest in drinking at all. 10 kids have died in our neighborhood in the last 5 years, mostly alcohol related. Still hurting over the breach of trust so I'm keeping my distance right now; I know I can lose my cool and I don't want that.
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here is one of the way that I would handle it (very similar to how I would with one of my soldiers).
doing what he did is almost a given, we have all been there, done that, got the t-shirt/scars to prove it. now comes the time to re/educate him on the dangers of disrespecting alcohol and what can come of it (I really like what JR said about taking him to the morgue) and or the hospital and let him see first hand what really happens. we do it in the military, where the MP's have a sled that simulates crashing, eye ware that simulates being under the influence of things, etc. we also do hands on demonstrations to show what happens during all aspects to your body, etc. most get it, but some just don't care. but the bottom line is that they are educated on the dangers of their decisions and then they are left to make the choice for themselves.
which goes into my next recommendation.
I understand that the alcohol was not the main point of the post and that the broken trust was/is. he is at the age where doing a bunch of yelling and screaming and treating him like a child is only going to push him further away. yes mom and the neighbor got to him before you and administered some sort of corrective training, but the way that you talk about this young man would lead me to believe that he really truly does look up to you and values you. maybe take a day or 2 and stay clear of him and let it sink into his brain that he has violated the bond that you 2 have. then sit him down 1 on 1 and have an adult conversation about his actions and just how they effected not only you but his mother and the whole family as well.
if the whole thing truly was a teenager doing what they do then he will learn from the whole situation and be armed to make better decisions/choices later in life.
if this is the first of many issues of this nature, then by all means cut it off at the ankles and get him enrolled into some sort of treatment program, because alcohol like other drugs is a nasty poison given to us by the devil and makes us truly blind to our actions.
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Thanks Nate. I learned about 4 years ago that yelling and screaming doesn't work as he just shuts down and doesn't hear anything anyway. We've had a lot of success with honest conversations, treating him like an adult lets him feel like I'm not just coming down on him because he's a boy and he respects me a lot for that. I've been his dad since he was in kindergarten; his biological father was/is a disaster of hard drugs, violence, (to his mother and others), crime, and alcohol abuse on the more extreme side. He views me as his actual father for sure, and he does actually listen to and respect me, which is why this is so out of character and painful for me. We'll go for a drive, and probably swing by the cemetery where 4 of his friends are buried, one just 4 months ago, all drug and alcohol related. I plan on sitting down there with him and having a little prayer together over his good friend Colton, asking God to watch over them both. Colton had some bad depression, and we as a community failed him miserably. He started isolating himself got into heavy drugs and drinking moonshine and took his own life. It resonated with Sam pretty hard as well as the rest of us. I think a good reminder of that, and a good bonding moment with me will do him good.
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Sounds like the onset of some depression there, may have to get him some professional assistance to help cope with the loss of his friend...........?
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That's a strong point there Nate. I'll have to keep a close eye in the next few weeks to see how this plays out.
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so whats the latest tate?
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Nate's on to something here,
We know all too well, what the consequences can be...
Pay attention to it Tater
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I touched on it briefly on the back to school thread but in keeping with some semblance of a standard I'll update here instead of DOT'ing up the other thread ;)
Sam is still without computer, phone, car or friend privileges for the time being. He has not argued or had a bad attitude throughout this entire ordeal, in fact, he has been very mature. My stepfather who has been another mentor to him had a good hear to heart with him. He's a strong Christian and computer/tech guy from Microsoft who Sam really looks up to. (His paternal grandfather and biological father are out of the picture, and his maternal grandfather is Egyptian, [Christian orthodox, not muslim]. My father has as much trouble relating to him as he did with me so they don't have much to talk about other than football.) After that conversation Sam was very open with us about wanting to hang out with this new kid because he thought he was cool etc etc. We actually had a conversation with this kid and his parents that went pretty well, but I still don't trust him or their judgment.
Sam had a pretty rough moment last night, Sophie and I were sitting on the couch as she was telling me about her day as little ones do, and he and Cyndie were in the next room. She talked about her kitties and Sam taking her outside to play on the swings all day and then mentioned that he must not be sick anymore because he didn't vomit. She then proceeded to tell me about how he got sick all over his shoes and his pants, that his hands were red from icky stuff and was really sick the other day. Then she said, "that's what happens when someone drinks too much alcohol, but daddy's don't do that right, just brothers." I choked up a little and explained to her that no, brothers aren't supposed to do that, but he made a bad choice and that's what happened to him. She listens and hears everything around her. I was pretty saddened that we hadn't shielded her better, but he was more upset. I could hear noise from the next room and it was Sam with his head in his mommy's lap sobbing. He had heard her and it gutted him. When he calmed down he gave us all big hugs and instead of the "sorry" I had been hearing he said "thank you". He told Sophie that he was sick because he made a bad choice and said he should have listened to us and for her to always listen to us. She just responded with, "ok, can I brush your hair?" It was nice to get a laugh out of the whole situation and we definitely felt closer after it.
We have been making a point to have dinner together and have no electronics, parents and 4 year olds included and we have had great conversations about everything, ranging from what his friends are up to, what his school goals are, job interviews etc. I'm keeping a close eye out. He'll have driving privileges for interviews or school related functions coming up, but his behavior and attitude will determine the length of his restriction. I'm still praying about this, and when HE tells me it's going to be ok I'll feel better about it.
Thanks all for your support and insight here.
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Tate...
As I am sure you know.....Trust goes both ways....Kids have to trust us also. As parents that's easy to forget, or not see as a teen see's it...Giving him the chance to earn back your trust while you show concern to him that he also trusts you, could play out big in the end for you both. Sometimes it's just hard to be a Dad to a young man....I still struggle, and all 3 of our boys are on their own. I look back, I am seeing my Father felt the same way I suspect. He always told me he was proud of me when he could be, that weighed huge many times when I was younger.
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this is good news tate. i will see if i can find some info for you on what i pm'd you about and get it headed in your direction, that way you can atleast be armed with some really good information on what to look for.
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Thanks all. I need to tell him that Koot, WILCO.
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Tate it sounds like he is headed in the right direction. Lord knows we all make mistakes, it's what follows those mistakes that separates the good from the bad. And I think a strong family structure in place is the best place to start. I also think eating together as a family with no electronics is a great way to ensure that connection with your kids that gets mixed up when we're all going in different directions. Good for you and your wife. I wish you the best.
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This sounds like it's going well Tate. I've stayed out as I was lucky enough to not have to deal with it. Part of it I'm sure was pure luck, and small town fortune. Part of it was probably as simple as what you are doing at dinner time now, and maybe some luck too. The rest I'm not sure.
I only have one, stepson since he was a it a year old, he had a tough go early on, and has seen the light now. Dad was a dufas, but it took till he was about 17 to see it. Truthfully I thank God and my lucky stars we got out of the big city life when we did, and I got to miss out on this.
He's going to be 21 now, starting to finally get his head screwed on straight.
I guess my point is keep doing what you're doing, and keep an eye out for the troubles Nate is sending the info on. Don't need to go down that road, anyone don't need that.
Carry on and keep being #1 dad and have faih that this will work out as it appears it is heading.
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Tate, great news. Thanks for the update. I know my trials are still around the corner and I hope to draw on this when the time comes.
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More updates/bragging:
Sam has been accepted to a different school, (brand new, better classes, teachers, funding, kids, and away from the really troubled kids he was around). We had to do a request through the school dist. and he had to show intent etc. Ironically, his old counselor at his original school had moved to this new school when he was a sophomore and really helped him along. He's going into a medical focused part of the campus while still focusing on programming. This is more like a college program than a senior year of high school. Behavior has been top notch and he's started spending time with his family voluntarily... at 17. Also got a job working for our friends cleaning pools on the weekend. Hard work, outside, making $15 an hour. Can you believe it, outside of a fast food restaurant and everything, lol.
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That's great news Tate! Hopefully this was a one off trip and it's clear sailing ahead.
Sounds like he's back on track and moving in the right direction again.
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Great news! Thanks for sharing
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Inexpensive lesson then. Thanks for the update.
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Good job!!
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Yeah, we're pretty excited. There seems to be a lot of self motivation which we had been hoping for.
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B.T. that is great news, and it really sounds like your son has truly understood the ramifications of his actions and future ones had he continued on that path. you and the boss (your wife) keep up the excellent work.
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So on his way to senior orientation yesterday, Sam was in a minor traffic accident. A little background, Sam drives a 2004 Chevy Aveo, which after a little minor maintenance I discovered is actually made by KIA!!! We have had some substantial storms for the past few days, and driving conditions were pretty terrible. He told his mother his brakes went out and he hit the back of a pickup. (again, minor damage, headlight, bumper, grill, a little body work on the hood, but no injuries or damage to the other vehicle as it was an 80's Scottsdale). I thought to myself, "that's pretty rare to have brakes just fail, especially since I had just been looking at it a few weeks ago, but I'll bite." Alright, glad no one is hurt, where are you now? "I drove it to my friend's house". How'd you do that if the brakes went out? "I went real slow..." hmm.... that's even more rare for brakes to fail, then not fail, the plot thickens. "well I stomped on the brake pedal and it went all the way down but I didn't stop". Got to the friend's house and started her up, brakes were perfectly fine. "Son, could it be you were traveling too fast for the wet conditions and slid?" Then the whole story comes out: well I guess that could be what happened because we were going 35 and he jammed on the brakes because he missed his turn, he told me" I reminded him that I did brakes for a living for 5 years, and he might get one over on his mom, but to come up with better excuses next time. All in all, the guy's being nice because he recognized he actually caused it, even though in WA Sam should have been cited. (he wasn't), and Sam admitted he was following pretty close, and probably going faster than he should have been. Good thing he got his pool cleaning job to cover the deductible and his new portion of car insurance!
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My daughter did the same thing a few months back, in the rain. Her old forerunner was buried to the rear axle in a recessed median when I showed up. She was turning in one of those left turn lanes that have a curb to guide you along....she hit the curbing and went airborne. "The brakes didn't work..blah blah". I asked if she tried 4wd to get it out and she said she didn't know what 4wd was (in my family everyone knows what 4wd is). I jumped in, jumped the curb at the other end of the median just as a cop pulled up. I told him the story with a smirk on my face, and he took over the lecture on driving careful in the rain.
...so i feel your pain.
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learned about floats in carburetors the same way when I made an illegal u/turn in the middle of a curbed median busy hwy and stalled it after jumping the front tires off the curb. 37" rubber on a wagoneer, I should be able to climb over everything right?
His car feels my pain too. BTW, just replaced that bumper when he slid on black ice into the back of a buick on newyears. That one I had confirmation of the other driver of the circumstances.
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look like a remove and replace operation.
Might make sense to have him effect the repairs himself under supervision
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Effect the repairs himself, and then add a bush guard.
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Effect the repairs himself, and then add a bush guard.
Add exoskeleton!
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Would that be the beginning of Square A (Aveo)?
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LOL!
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Ohhh....not Kia....it's a Daewoo, still Kolean as D would say.
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i agree with sam and rn, he effects the repairs himself both mechanically and financially ;D we all did it i am sure and it didn't hurt or kill any of us .
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Daewoo/kia = chevy/gmc = tomato/tomatoe
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2 completely different companies. :P
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???
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Would that be the beginning of Square A (Aveo)?
It's not square...looks like a P-51 drop tank, all rounded lookin'
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Here's a question?
Chevy...
USA and international operations...
Which one is bigger?
If you said international, and specificially, China, you'd be correct.
Over there instead of Chevy, it is Chery!
Really, no kidding!
My 825I Gator had a 3 cyl Chery car engine (50HP) in it!
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Buick in china is like Caddy here....maybe even close to a Rolls, to some maybe.
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I drove one of those little 3 cylinders for a few months, not bad really. 1000lb car with 50hp. It was built like a cart, sealed bearings, 8 gallon tank.
Exoskeleton attached to what, the mirror??
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Would that be the beginning of Square A (Aveo)?
It's not square...looks like a P-51 drop tank, all rounded lookin'
if he runs into a few more things it will look square....
But point taken
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When I first started driving my father knew all the locals cops. He knew what I did before I got home, then there was the ride home in the back one day,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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Kia motor company on the door frame sticker and the VIN# matches, not sure if it's relevant, but frustrating none the less. Insurance all but totaled it, $2k in damages. we're taking the check, and the car. he and I will do the repairs, parts yard pieces etc, bumper cover and hood will most likely remain damaged, and he'll get to drive around his senior year with it as is and deal with the "utter humiliation" of driving around in a banged up ride.
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that's what I am talking about
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deal with the "utter humiliation" of driving around in a banged up ride.
That's utter humiliation? My vehicle in HS was an 89 Ranger 2WD with a 4cyl and a manual trans. You could stick your finger through the fenders thanks to WI rust, paint peeling and slow as all get out. But my friends and I used to go all over in that, but then again it's a farming area so nice fancy vehicles weren't in style.
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Kia motor company on the door frame sticker and the VIN# matches, not sure if it's relevant, but frustrating none the less. Insurance all but totaled it, $2k in damages. we're taking the check, and the car. he and I will do the repairs, parts yard pieces etc, bumper cover and hood will most likely remain damaged, and he'll get to drive around his senior year with it as is and deal with the "utter humiliation" of driving around in a banged up ride.
I don't understand....my head is about to explode.............
Good plan on the repairs. I would probably make him do the labor, while you sit back with a sweet tea!
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Not bad ideas all around. and trust me, "utter humiliation" then and now are very different. mine was in the form of a 1987 dodge colt vista wagon, that I got t boned in from sliding through a red light in the rain. like father like son I guess. I rolled that hoopty for 3 years until my grandpa got me my early graduation present in the form of a 1989 Chevrolet Beretta.
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I got a 71 pinto, that had as many colors as the horse for which it was named, with a blown engine. Luckily my uncle had a worn out engine that he helped me install, as a HS graduation gift. It was because of that car that 2 things happened (or 1 that did and one that didn't)....#1- ken stayed "pure" well into his late teens, for lack of female Pinto admirers, and #2- The town lost it's entire population of mosquitos practically overnight.
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LOL, My first car was a 62 chevy bel air 4 door with a mis matched front fender, no headliner (the original dry rotted out), rusted out floorboards, and steel wheels without hubcaps. And no AC. Driver's side window mechanism was broken and the window would not stay up.
Replaced the 283 and 2 spd powerglide with a 350 4bolt main and TH350. Saved money and added a replica z28 dual plane intake and holley 650 vacuum secondary, Comp Cam 268 duration cam, 461 casting heads, HEI distributor and a shift kit in the tranny with headers and dual Thrush mufflers.
The only draw back was the open rear diff in 3:36
For its day that car was a bit of a sleeper. Ate more than it's fair share of trans-ams
Ugly as sin, but it was mine.
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I would have taken either of those over the vista wagon. it was a subcompact minivan that seated 7 uncomfortably. with all the fine trappings of a mid 80's K car plus a super cool hatch back it was the envy of... no one. After the T-bone, my parents who were broke made me drive it as is. That lasted a couple years with a hugely caved in c pillar and passenger side door(s). That also kept ME pure... So when I got the Beretta and started working regularly, the internet was a pretty new thing, and I had dial up, so I spent most of my time working on the car. about $3500 later, it had fully ported and polished 2.4L quad4 transplant with weber side draft carbs, getrag limited slip and toyo proxes street slicks. putting out around 300hp w/ an 8500 redline I chewed up my fair share of Hondas but this also kept me "pure" as I was always working to pay for or working on the car. Now Sam builds computers like I built cars and I'm happy it keeps him learning and busy, but I'm even happier that he now has the same scenario as I did in "learning" from his mistakes. 8)
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Kia motor company on the door frame sticker and the VIN# matches, not sure if it's relevant, but frustrating none the less. Insurance all but totaled it, $2k in damages. we're taking the check, and the car. he and I will do the repairs, parts yard pieces etc, bumper cover and hood will most likely remain damaged, and he'll get to drive around his senior year with it as is and deal with the "utter humiliation" of driving around in a banged up ride.
I don't understand....my head is about to explode.............
Good plan on the repairs. I would probably make him do the labor, while you sit back with a sweet tea!
For Ken's vindication and closure, we have Daewoo conformation on the door sticker. I may or may not have been clouded with frustration when I first read it. insurance covered the repairs, Sam has a now steady part time job cleaning pools on the weekend which he paid the deductible with and now covers his own insurance vehicle costs.
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Thank's Tate....I feel better now. :)
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Thank's Tate....I feel better now. :)
I shouldn't have questioned you. You Tha man, I'm just the apprentice