REAL MAN TRUCKWORKS & SURVIVAL
GENERAL TOPICS => D.O.T. => Topic started by: Flyin6 on December 28, 2021, 05:31:09 PM
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If you followed my thread about writing a book to entertain my pre-ranger son who was in Infantry school at Ft. Benning, well I did that. I wrote 10 chapters around 90,000 words and am presently finishing the final three chapters to finish the work.
I originally wrote it just for him, but with an eye toward perhaps publishing the work so that many could enjoy as well. It was read by recruits in his basic training and advanced infantry training company over the months and was widely liked.
So I contacted three publishing companies to see it it was something worthy of publishing. There is a process there and incase there are any aspiring novelists here, I'll share what the process looks like if you also have a work of some kind you'd like to get on a shelf somewhere.
As of today all three companies like the work and have submitted it to their people for an evaluation. I just got an acceptance letter from the first company, so this just became a real possibility.
The book is called "Thoren" It is an epic story roughly akin to the lord of the rings trilogy. Like Tolkien's work, mine will also be told in three separate full books. It's just too big a story to fit into one book which I'd like to keep to around 250 pages.
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The first step, obviously, is to actually write the thing. That will take you 2-3 months working five to seven full days a month and many hours long chunks here and there.
Once you get it written, sit on it, read it and then rewrite what doesn't fit or work well.
Next, I'd suggest your getting a few opinions. I did that by offering it out to several folks for some feedback.
OK, assuming you are comfortable with that, then decide if you want to just submit the work to a publisher to see if they will pick up all the costs and simply publish it for you. If you do that, you will sacrifice most of your rights and a good amount of the profit to be had. My first book worked like that. They offered me a contract, which I signed, then away they went and finally produced the thing. Great...Except in my case, I'm an American author, writing an American story about experiences I had at war. The owners sold that into the British world where Americans are but an after thought. I did not do nearly as well as I could have if it were heavily marketed in the US. I get royalties amounting to anything from 10% from direct book sales to 75% should it be purchased to make into a movie. Those royalties come to me once or twice a year and I just donate all of that to a church in Britain.
The other way to publish is to self publish. There are hybrid models where they share some of the costs but retain more of the rights, but basically you pay them to publish and you own it all. I have chosen that route for Thoren. I did however elect to have my work critically examined by the publishers and allow them to either accept or reject associating with the book as their names will appear on the books spine..
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So for now, I am waiting to see what the other responses are and make a decision as to what company I will be choosing
More to come...
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:popcorn:
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Thanks for taking us on this journey with you, I have wondered a few times about the process of getting a novel published. Not really for myself, but more for my children, they love writing stories
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Thanks for taking us on this journey with you, I have wondered a few times about the process of getting a novel published. Not really for myself, but more for my children, they love writing stories
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
And since you asked:
Once you are accepted and you and the publisher agree on the conditions, a contract is drawn up and you either pay a fee to get the process started, or they pay you something. That was the case for my first book. They gave me a modest fee, then got after it. For the Thoren process, I anticipate paying the upfront costs which should fall somewhere between $5K-$10K
A lot of that will go into marketing the thing and getting you out there
The companies I have chosen all have similar processes. Once we agree and monies exchange hands. the author gets a writing/editing team to work with. They will pour over the pages working on grammar, context and other areas to tidy the work up. Distant Thunder required almost no editing so I just blew right through that part.
With Thoren, I want to hear critique which will make it a better read and help me tighten up my shot group. The author remains in pretty much total control within agreed upon guidelines so that is a good thing. One of the big advantages of paying for your book to be published is that you retain pretty much total control and they just contractually fulfill their obligations even if the work is junk. But the author has the ability to keep his message intact. With Distant Thunder, the editing people in London wanted to remove my references to God. I told them no or the project was over, and they rolled.
You see the author has something he wants to acompolish. He may want to make a lot of money, or tell a story, or teach something. In my case, I want to cause people to draw closer to God. I am using a sort of bait and switch with some of the stories within the bigger story somewhat paralleling biblical stories. Writing in this manner I hope that an unchurched person may grow curious about a name or a reference and go search it out which should lead him/her to the black leather bound book. I wouldn't mind making some good money since there are a lot of things I'd like to do that require funding.
So the editing team works almost daily with the author cleaning up the story while the graphics people come up with about a half dozen cover designs. The author will pick one and get into the weeds with it, choosing the actual font style/size/colors/artwork or photo. The graphics people will also start developing art for the chapters and put together the back flap.
The interview which I had yesterday helps them to start to develop the author's bio which they will put inside the cover fold somewhere.
Legal people prepare the forms for the copyright, and petition the library of Congress for a book number. They also get a special number called an ISBN which can be typed in any search engine anywhere to pull up your exact book.
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The editing people continue to work with the author until the whole thing is finished. At that point a proof is agreed upon with all parties signing off.
The next step is with the publishing team who work to make proofs of each page. A page will generally run about 200 words, so they use that number (Mine will be near 90,000-100,000 words) to determine the actual size of the book. I think mine will be a 6" X 9".
It is quite a bit of work but all 250 ish pages will be set up and proofed, never to be changed again.
While all that is going on the marketing team builds a website showcasing the author, his work(s) and adding in interesting detail. It is a living place that they add to periodically to build interest. They get busy marketing all over the place, particularly social media. My site will be an interactive one where I will chat with curious people about the book. That is all about generating interest (Read: Sales).
Thoren will actually have a link tab on this, RealMan site. We may put the whole thing right here, that decision is yet to be made. There will be tabs on that link to purchase the physical book or download a digital copy. A month or two after publication an audio version will also be available.
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Once all the proofs are built and I sign off on everything the thing is actually ready to print. There are several markets which normally buy some physical copies like Amazon, Barns and Noble, Books a million, and some others. It is made available, I am told on eighty odd other media like Kindle, Apple-read and many others.
And here is the cool part: My first book, "Distant Thunder is either sold out, or nearly sold out. Unless John prints more, that thing is done, except in digital form which will always be available. Newer technology allows a POD or print on demand sales method. You order one or a church orders 50 and a machine prints the whole book all at once and some guy wraps it up and it ships all in a day. The printers are located all over the world, and this book is set for world-wide distribution.
The way that works is like this: You see my book on the web site and decide to purchase it. So you click a tab which takes you to a payment page where you complete the purchase. Two things then happen, part of the money is immediately sent to a holding account that only the author has access. And the other part of the money goes to the printing company. So, let's say my book retails for $10.95. You click purchase and immediately $3 goes to the printing company, the cost of printing and $7.95 goes to the account that the author has, just like that! The publisher takes no fee at all, since you, the author paid all costs up front.
All 80-90 sales venues operate in the same manner, monies are sent to the author and to the printer, unless its an audio or digital book, then the Author gets everything. And so that goes pretty much as long as people continue to buy and read your work. Distant Thunder was printed in 2012, and just last week a green beret buddy of mine told me he just purchased the last book of mine for sale. So that's 9 years worth of sales.
But when Thoren hits the bricks, people will become aware of an earlier book and some of them will also want to read that and so sales will pick up again. Should I get one of the next three books I plan to write on a best seller list (Chances approach zero) then John in London will have to fire up the presses once again for a reprint of the Yank's book.
That's a macro view of the process. I'll share what it's like day to day as we all dig into this 10 week to 6-month project.
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Interesting behind the scenes info.
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Update:
I sent copies of the work to three separate publishers. Some like to read over the work first to get a feel for where the thing may go and to see just how compatible they are with you. Finally it helps give them a sense of who to place on your writing team and just how much work they are looking at. That, of course may afect pricing.
Yesterday the work was accepted by the first publisher. We spoke on the phone for a few minutes and set a time for Tuesday to meet again and discuss their proposal. So that's one in a row...
I'll wait to see what I hear if anything from the other two companies, and based on all of that, choose the one I will sign up with.
While all that is going on, I am writing by buttock off. Spent 8-9 hours on it yesterday powering through most of Chapter 11 and proofing and rewriting Ch 10. I have, maybe 20,000 words remaining to write, or 40 odd pages until I consider the first writing complete with all my editing. That product will be sanded pretty smooth but still have some rough edges that the pros will work on like Salt Lake Dave does with his paint restorations.
Another member here suggested his daughter could do some art for the chapters or even the cover. Strangely enough, the publisher queried me straight up about who/what I was thinking about for the cover art. Then just this morning another friend from the Armee showed me some art his daughter did and suggested I talk to her as well.
So I am now thinking this may be an excellent opportunity to look at the work from these novices and maybe get their names out there. Imagine someone who is a no-name in the publishing world actually enter college or go job hunting with an actual book cover in her resume. I do like the idea of engaging the youth in this, so I think I'm open to it.
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And you call us busy?
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And you call us busy?
When you're out of projects,
...You're dead!
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Update:
Awaiting response from remaining two companies, solid hit with the first one I chose, a well established publisher who is in their second 100 years.
I had two members reach out to me, whose daughters are into the arts. It seems one is actually studying art for magazine/book design and illustrations, and i am not sure, but one has a strong interest in this venue of art.
So I am putting together some elements that I wish to incorporate into a cover/book design for them to chew on. It seems the art is wide open and I am in control, so there is a possibility here I find intriguing.
In the end it will require some significant work/hours to get that done and kids being what they are, The endurance piece may answer the question. If the artist has the dedication to the project to get it to the finish line, then we might just have a winner.
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Update: One company is continuing to show up, and they are the oldest and offer a solid service. I would place then in the lead slot at the moment.
Company number two has contacted me again to discuss further. Their pricing is less, but I think their value does not add up to what company number one can offer.
Company number three, the largest Christian publishing company of all is AWOL. I'd say in two days if they do not show up at the door, they are out.
Feedback from the readers who evaluated the work: Popular genre, built interest from the first page. Held interest all the way through, ought to do well.
^^^Them talkin' not me. I take the wait N' C approach. If the thing has something to add to the building of the kingdom, it has potential is what I feel...
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Update: One company is continuing to show up, and they are the oldest and offer a solid service. I would place then in the lead slot at the moment.
Company number two has contacted me again to discuss further. Their pricing is less, but I think their value does not add up to what company number one can offer.
Company number three, the largest Christian publishing company of all is AWOL. I'd say in two days if they do not show up at the door, they are out.
Feedback from the readers who evaluated the work: Popular genre, built interest from the first page. Held interest all the way through, ought to do well.
^^^Them talkin' not me. I take the wait N' C approach. If the thing has something to add to the building of the kingdom, it has potential is what I feel...
I have to admit, I've only made it halfway, but that was because it was 0130 and just haven't had a minutes time to catch back up, but you have a solid "voice" in this with a good structure and they're right, it's a popular genre right now and well really has been for long time. keep us updated
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Update: One company is continuing to show up, and they are the oldest and offer a solid service. I would place then in the lead slot at the moment.
Company number two has contacted me again to discuss further. Their pricing is less, but I think their value does not add up to what company number one can offer.
Company number three, the largest Christian publishing company of all is AWOL. I'd say in two days if they do not show up at the door, they are out.
Feedback from the readers who evaluated the work: Popular genre, built interest from the first page. Held interest all the way through, ought to do well.
^^^Them talkin' not me. I take the wait N' C approach. If the thing has something to add to the building of the kingdom, it has potential is what I feel...
I have to admit, I've only made it halfway, but that was because it was 0130 and just haven't had a minutes time to catch back up, but you have a solid "voice" in this with a good structure and they're right, it's a popular genre right now and well really has been for long time. keep us updated
So, thumbs up/down/or sorta???
Oh and I reedited some of what you have and I gave you like 70,000 words. I am currently at 130,000++ words
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Thumbs up all the way Chief.
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Thumbs up all the way Chief.
OK, Like that
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Just heard from the third publisher
They felt it was well written and interesting but offered some line by line editing something or other. They would compute the cost to publish on my own based on the editing they suggested.
The first company came back with some crazy offer to create an audio book at $40 a page. Note that this thing will be somewhere around 250 pages long. That may exclude them from selection.
The second company had something go wrong and they did not receive the work and asked me to resubmit today, which I did this morning and got receipt acknowledgement 20 min later.
So here we sit, ah-waitin
Now
Please allow me to ask a question
How many folks out there think it is necessary to produce an audio book?
T
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If they want to "audio" it, let them pay for it.
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If they want to "audio" it, let them pay for it.
THIS.
that being said, you could make sales you might not have otherwise with an audio option.
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Possibly make audiobook a follow on option after initial publication. You could determine if it is a medium that would add value to you the writer, as opposed to only being money in their pocket. Just a thought.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I’d bet audio is more popular than paper, if that is the case that explains why they think it should be on audio.
That being said, I think you could do the audio transcribing your self, or some one you know. Then send them the audio files?
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Morgan Freeman available?
I would go e-reader which should be practically free since they have the whole darn thing digitally anyways, then like the Dave said, make audio a value add later on when the regular paper and e-reader pickup steam
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On the audio-book topic: it's pretty popular. I listen to audio-books when I run, or drive long distances. I know a lot of people who do the same.
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I’d bet audio is more popular than paper, if that is the case that explains why they think it should be on audio.
That being said, I think you could do the audio transcribing your self, or some one you know. Then send them the audio files?
Here's the thing, T
I wouldn't need to sell any files, as I already own them.
Two paradigms:
First is traditional publishing. THe publisher basically "Buys the book from you, then agrees to share a percentage of the sales (Royalties) Under this system, they own everything you did, and you own nothing
Second way: Self publishing. Under this system you pay up front for all the usual publication services, but you end up owning the work. THey just get paid to do their traditional work, then retain a small fee for printing each copy
And, of course, the truth: I am finding the industry is run through with scammers, liars and all manner of hidden gimmicks. The publisher, it seems paints themselves as a sterling silver knight of good. In reality they are always scheming to maintain control and make as much $$$ as possible.
One of the tricks I just learned of is that when filing for an ISBN (book number) they list themselves as the publisher of the works. By doing that they automatically own the publishing rights. So, sure the author owns the work, but if he ever wants to publish it, then he needs to go back to the publisher to ask permission. Cool little trick right there.
I will say this as a general footnote: the Author will need to spend a ton of time online reading about all the ins and outs of publishing to have any chance of all of coming out of it intact. Secondly, I'd say 99% of all published authors do not make any money from their work at all. Having learned that I was shocked, and surprised as I actually did make money from my first book. When the publishing companies found out how many books I sold, they were shocked. Most authors sell less than 100 books. Publishing a book will run generally around $5,000. so do the math if you're making $10 or less a book...
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Morgan Freeman available?
I would go e-reader which should be practically free since they have the whole darn thing digitally anyways, then like the Dave said, make audio a value add later on when the regular paper and e-reader pickup steam
Good point and, if you can prepare a ready to print copy of your book, you can finish your work at noon, then upload it directly to Amazon and start selling it at 1215
I may actually look into doing that.
Copyrights and ISBN's are cheap and easy. Every editor who ever "Edited my works, any of them and I have had dozens and dozens of pieces published said that my stuff required almost no editing, so could I possibly do it myself?? Maybe!
I have two people here wanting to do the art, so that's that. I could as an experiment just publish it to some simple media, offer to download it from my forum here, and get Tate to record it over lunch and a bologna sandwich and upload that for sale. I'd give him a shiny nickel for each copy downloaded, of course...or is that too much?
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you're playing with fire Don. I did commercials when i was a kid, even made it to final auditions for "Freaks and Geeks" back in the day and lost out to some loser, you might know him though, James Franco, I think.
listen to my Yukon Youtube videos, if you think the voice fits, I'd be honored. I think your narrator needs a deeper, older, even euro-centric sound though. that's just how it hear it in my head. kinda "hobbity"
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you're playing with fire Don. I did commercials when i was a kid, even made it to final auditions for "Freaks and Geeks" back in the day and lost out to some loser, you might know him though, James Franco, I think.
listen to my Yukon Youtube videos, if you think the voice fits, I'd be honored. I think your narrator needs a deeper, older, even euro-centric sound though. that's just how it hear it in my head. kinda "hobbity"
I didn't know that about you, Tate...How cool!
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Update: I am deep into writing the final chapter and concluding the story, so the actual writing is about done. Looking like it is finishing around 130,000 words, only about 50,000 more than I had planned. Talk about missing an estimate!
I am now down to just two publishers. One is turning out to be way out of line with respect to costs, and that is the same company that registers themselves as owner of the publishing rights.
I am pretty insistent on the audio book, so that is very likely to happen.
I am talking about doing something cool. So the book will be available all over the place in like 90 markets. I am deciding on whether it is to be a hard bound or paperback or possibly both although it is harder for Amazon to sell it in both formats.
Here is the cool part. We are going to add a tab on the website to do book marketing/sales from.
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I am going to offer a special version of the book on the RealMan website. I am thinking about having it done with gold lettering or a leather spine or have something extra in it, like the story as to how the book came to be. And that would only be available if the book was ordered from this very website.
I thought up the idea today and proposed it to the publisher, and he thought it was a pretty cool idea as well, and said he could do something different for a select targeted book market.
What I am thinking: Special lettering or gold spine.
Adding another section telling about how the thing came about
Adding some scripture to it somewhere and a comment from me about why I felt like writing it something like a Christian story.
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Sounds great!
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Sounds great!
Yea it does...
Now let's see if the bonehead pilut can pull it all off!
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:likebutton: :likebutton:
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Sounds really good!
I like the ideas of the special versions too.
I had also heard the intial chapter(s) you shared with some sort of accent as well.
Or Morgan Freeman lol. But maybe you need to check out taters channel too.
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Sounds really good!
I like the ideas of the special versions too.
I had also heard the intial chapter(s) you shared with some sort of accent as well.
Or Morgan Freeman lol. But maybe you need to check out taters channel too.
Ya, maybe!
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Next step taken: I just signed the contract to begin the actual book production stage of this endeavor. We should be something less than three months from having it available to buy.
The contract phase is interesting. I did a lot of research on the publisher I chose. I looked all over for any information, positive and negative. I found no negative stuff, and a ton of positive feedback. I liked Brian from our first call.
The competing companies were easy to ferret out as well. Xulon books, who I thought would be a strong contender, hardly called or responded to my inquiries. One time I got a "We're very busy at the moment," response which to me elicits a big ole' "I don't care!" You see when it comes to business, as far as I am concerned, I am the only job that matters. You give me the time I need and answer my needs or you're just another company in a sea of companies. Xulon Publishing fit that profile to a "T."
Next up was Dorrance Publishing. They offer a complete service including a bunch of marketing, however have a ton of bad reviews. I questioned them about the complaints and they just shut off communications! Yea, I asked one question about why so many authors had complained about not getting paid, and BOOM! Just like that I heard nothing more. So I wrote them an email explaining that they would not be my choice.
My choice is "Book Marketeers" the company I am moving forward with.
Now that the contracts have been signed, I meet with the writing team today, I think and get plugged into some project sharing software where everyone has access on the work and may comment or work on the manuscript.
Curtis's daughter Miss R___ has volunteered to do some of the art. Another member here volunteered as well, but has not contacted me yet, and well, the project is moving forward...
I will create a new section on the website where I can blog with interested parties about the books and will post links to purchase the works there as well
On making money: I do not expect to even break even with this book. I wrote it for my son, and formally publishing it will fulfill that promise I made to myself. He will and already does like it and I hope will treasure it. It was a book a father wrote for his son, and if we publish 1 copy and it lands in his hands, then, so be it, Mission accomplished!
But, in writing it, I also felt the tug of God to make it a bigger thing and to use it somehow to tell the world about him. So it has morphed into that. As the chapters progress, you will see more of a move toward a familiar book. And the follow on books will reflect him more and more. (I hope)
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Sounds like you covered the bases chief. Realistic view and outcome. Not for the $$, but a little never hurts. maybe God will step in on that too.
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Sounds like you covered the bases chief. Realistic view and outcome. Not for the $$, but a little never hurts. maybe God will step in on that too.
We will see. I plan to be fairly transparent and forthcoming on what I learn/earn...to a point.
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I am now beginning the professional editing process
Their first act was to toss the book out of the window
I am now starting a new book, page 1!
Naw, just made all that up
We are starting the professional editing. We work through a meeting place called "BaseCamp" where everyone is tied to their respective team members. I have a view on the overall process.
I had to fill out some lengthy questionnaires that will determine the feel. Things such as font, size, illustrations and so forth.
I had not finished the book and have worked like a madman the past couple days. I did finish Chapter 13 which I thought was the last one, but I couldn't do it. so I am finishing up in Chapter 14 in an epic battle. I hope to finish that tomorrow and have the whole thing submitted. As for the 220-230 pages size, well, I shot that all to heck. It is some 256 pages and 124,000 words and still have the final chapter to add. So, it looks more like 275 pages with my formatting. With them fitting it to real book pages, I suspect it will be more, but it is what it is. Price will be say $5 for everyone not named "Dave," and $96.99 for them. Should keep them out of the mix ;-))
I don't actually know what the thing will cost. I want it to be just the normal price for a book of that size, nothing more.
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Don,
Sorry with the recent medical stuff with the wife I didn't get to read what you sent me like I had planned and with you already having a company lined out to publish this isn't much needed. The book is very well written and gets you hooked from the first page to the point of not wanting to put it down.
Congratulations Chief
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Don,
Sorry with the recent medical stuff with the wife I didn't get to read what you sent me like I had planned and with you already having a company lined out to publish this isn't much needed. The book is very well written and gets you hooked from the first page to the point of not wanting to put it down.
Congratulations Chief
Thank you!
It is now double what I sent out. I'm having fun finishing it, although my fingers are cramping from all the typing
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It has been a marathon three days, but I finished it today after working on it for 11+ hours. It has been nearly eight months in the making but as for the writing piece, it is now done.
Short of 136,000 words. By comparison, Distant Thunder was 70,000 words
By my formatting around 280 pages. Distant thunder is 186!
It's been a huge undertaking, but with finishing it, I fulfil a promise to my son. I told him I would write a book for him and I just did!
Now on to the editing, art work, formatting, and finally, publishing
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:beercheers:
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Congratulations
Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
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Sounds Great Big D All that hard work will pay off Can't wait to read or better yet, listen to Tate read it as i drive.
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Update: The editing staff has been slowly working on the project. I have asked for comprehensive editing so that translates into a bunch of work.
Next, one of our members here has a daughter who has stepped up and is taking a swing at doing the art for the book. She forwarded me some initial concepts of what some things should look like in her mind and I have to say, I was favorably impressed. Unknown to her (But I'll tell her) he art guy at the publishing firm was questioning me to develop his own concept. I get the final vote so I decided to let her have a week or two to develop some twenty odd concepts and then toss them over to the professional artists for some feedback. In the end, this young lady may well get the nod and design all the artwork for this project. I will emblazon the inside cover with her name, "Art work by XXXX, XXXXXXXX, which will make for a pretty nice resume builder for someone seeking a career in this business.
That's where we are at the moment, obviously, more to come...
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So, today, I got the introduction back from the editing people. They had some good suggestions. I followed along and changed it up some to make it read better, and turned it back in.
I'm betting they are not used to seeing authors respond this quickly. I had their edit in my lap for maybe four hours before sending it back, having been corrected and rewritten.
Ann, who is the senior writer (I think) said they would move on to Chapter 1 after they got the introduction back.
That and the young lady doing the art sent me some interpretations of a character called "Helen." I thought they were a good start, so things are moving right along. Looking to have a springtime release.
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Update: I posted over on Farcebook about having finished the book, and it was in the production cycle.
That seems to have generated some interest
The publisher grabbed the opportunity to talk about generating interest, marketing, and how to best do all that.
On that front I will post something over there every week or so about the general progress, but I will post more here.
Then I went to visit a buddy who builds web sites to talk to him about my idea of adding onto RealMan and blog the book here. He suggested creating a whole new space to talk about the book(s) and share details. He is going to create that new website, and I believe he is naming it DonHarwardBooks.com
No it is not active now, but will be probably inside two weeks. I need some artwork for it first so he can put that into the site.
On that front, I continue to work with the daughter of a member here to develop the characters. We are still in the early stages of doing that, and work continues. Once the characters are developed the first thing completed will be the actual book cover.
Aside from that, the editors and I are muscling through the work, now having completed the Intro and working on the chapters.
It's quite a process, but we all want a really good product to go out
During the lull in the action I have actually started on the outline of the next book of this series which I think I am going to name, "Thoren: The second war"
The way it works is to first have a general idea of what you want to do, then start deciding how you get there. Once you've done that, you need to develop the storyline in outline form. That's where I am now in that process. I would like to have the outline completed before Thoren even hits the shelves so that as readers complete it, I'll have things to talk about in the next book.
Anyway, that's the overview of where we presently are in all this.
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The young lady doing the art for the book is honing in on some characters and concept art:
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Pushing through this editing process. Currently doing chapter 2 (Out of 16!) I decided to nearly rewrite the whole thing. eight hours spent on that so far. But it reads and feels a lot better. Essentially, I had started off with a certain style of writing, and that gradually changed over the course of the book. As a result the front end now looks a lot different than the back end. I am correcting that every day.
Andrea, the lady doing the art produced some more work:
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She started producing the map!
However I cannot download it!
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Version 2 of the map. Andrea continues to close in on the finished product. This map is near the front of the book. She is still working on it. We were discussing various things including the font style. The fonts you see will not be the finished product
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Thoren map V3
Getting closer
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Great progress and cool map!
Curious tho, is "Unhabited" a real word?
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Great progress and cool map!
Curious tho, is "Unhabited" a real word?
Why no, it isn't!
Good catch!
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So, it is working out like I had hoped it would. The daughter of one of our members here is the actual book illustrator!
Knowledge of her and another came to me, as I have mentioned before.
She is actually the only artist working on this and all the illustrations in the book will be hers as well as the book cover.
I have arranged for her name to appear on the copyright/credits page.
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Sounds good. So this is still a ways off?
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Sounds good. So this is still a ways off?
I am editing chapter 4 at the moment (16 chapters)
It gets my write, then my edit, then the publisher's edit, then my final look and re-edit.
With no real illustrations in yet, I'd say we are 20% complete with something like 2 months left to get the written piece done and published. Then the audio book will take some more time.
So I'd bet we are 3 months from the shelves.
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So here is both version 4 and the final, version 5 which I just sent in to be uploaded to the manuscript:
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Progress is slow but steady. I am editing the chapters as the professional editing people get done with them. I like what they are doing, which is to make it all read a lot better. They find all manner of mistakes and I am having to review my advanced grammar once again. It is also giving me a chance to add in bits and pieces here and there to tie in the back end of the book even better.
We purchased a new domain: Donharwardbooks.com
A friend is currently building out the web page from some of the material already generated.
I also plan to try to buy my book rights back from the publisher who published Distant Thunder. My plan would be to offer the book as a print on demand offering, and offer an audio version. I would like to be the actual voice for that book, offering commentary here and there above what is already in print.
And
I think, since I have already written all those CIEMR essays, I will do that book next. You see, I want to publish it from start to book shelf all myself so I can learn how that is done. I'd offer that on the website as a POD offering as well as on Amazon and everywhere else too.
Looking way down the road, the next offering would be the sequel to Thoren, book two of the three book series. I may well be able to do the whole thing in house (literally) after learning the ropes with "CIEMR"
Anyway, it continues...
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You are a busy man!!
Next book, coffee rants
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You are a busy man!!
Next book, coffee rants
Keeps him off the streets at night. LOL
Boss you are one driven man. Best of luck to you
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Thanks
But I don't know if its all me. This morning, I woke up with Chronicles 7:14 on the brain. Started to write and it just poured out. Me doing that or...?
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Book now edited and assembled to the end of CH 5
Some more art to share. These will appear opposite the start of some chapters
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Still nugging it out. In the trenches right now with all this editing.
Andrea continues to produce really good work.
It is a process to get to the finished piece which will appear opposite the start of each chapter (16 of them)
I'll give here a theme, then she will show me a rendering or two. I'll select which one I want and she will further develop it. I'll then take a hard look at it then suggest more changes or accept it. They she inks it in and I submit it to be added to the growing book. We are between 1/3 and 1/2 complete at the moment.
The pics below show that process. The final sketch will be inked in and submitted as the book art for Chapter 4. It shows a spiritual city called Ginder
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And here is the finished product
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:likebutton:
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Well I can see why you didn't select my art. I have trouble making stick figures. LOL. She does good work
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Well I can see why you didn't select my art. I have trouble making stick figures. LOL. She does good work
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I have added her name to the copyright page of the book. My hope is for her to use this project as a springboard to launch her career. Then hopefully she will be blessed and hang around to illustrate the next two books in this series
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Ran into a bit of a snag with the publisher. The chief editor, Anne has not picked up on my emails for six days now. I suspect something has gone wrong. Seven or eight days ago she sent me a bunch of stuff to check and somehow amidst, a lot of Chapter 4 came up missing. I fixed all that, then sent in the proof-read chapters 1-6 and somehow they never noticed. Subsequent to that, I sent in four additional illustrations and they seem to have not noticed that either.
So I built a fire in the Project manager's email file and am now awaiting his response. My impression is that they are not used to working with a matter of fact military man like me. I've likely pi$$ed them all off and they are not answering the phone.
But here is how that works. My contract has a 100% refund policy if I am not completely satisfied. I am beginning to become something less than completely satisfied. I will pull the plug on this company in a Kentucky minute, which is a bit slower than the New York minutes. I'll fire them and start all over again with a new publisher if they remain on this track
Time will tell...
In the meantime, Andrea supplied her rendering of a scene in the book from a meeting at "Great Nest"
I think she did a good job of capturing the moment. Sketch is neither inked nor finished.
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Here is the final "Great Nest" illustration
I think it is her best work yet
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:likebutton:
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Very good work. She is very gifted
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The work continues, man what a bunch of effort this thing has been. And I was thinking it was a 250 page book, boy was I wrong. Up through chapter 12 now with the editing and the thing has 356 pages currently and is still missing 3 chapters. That means I am looking at somewhere from 450-500 pages in this first work of the Thoren series. Unless I am mistaken, that's the size of the thing so far.
So I need some input, and Andrea, our young artist needs some input. As I have stated earlier, Andrea is just starting and we all want this book and her illustrations to provide her a stepping stone into the career field. I want the book to be top notch and I want her work to speak as highly about her as it can.
I am sharing the illustration she just submitted to sit opposite one of the chapter starts. I am not sure how I feel about it, sort of like it, but feel it is missing some detail. To help me, if some of you could look at it and comment, it could help me see how the readership sees it
Thanks
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Don, I agree it’s missing something.
I can’t put my finger on it for sure.
I want to say more detail in the three fellas that are lacking may be part of it.
The one on the left back to us has lots and the rest blend away.
Possibly more terrain detal also?
But.
I’m not sure that is the issue either.
I guess you made it through the miscommunication lack of communication with the publisher.
Going to be a big book.
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The work continues, man what a bunch of effort this thing has been. And I was thinking it was a 250 page book, boy was I wrong. Up through chapter 12 now with the editing and the thing has 356 pages currently and is still missing 3 chapters. That means I am looking at somewhere from 450-500 pages in this first work of the Thoren series. Unless I am mistaken, that's the size of the thing so far.
So I need some input, and Andrea, our young artist needs some input. As I have stated earlier, Andrea is just starting and we all want this book and her illustrations to provide her a stepping stone into the career field. I want the book to be top notch and I want her work to speak as highly about her as it can.
I am sharing the illustration she just submitted to sit opposite one of the chapter starts. I am not sure how I feel about it, sort of like it, but feel it is missing some detail. To help me, if some of you could look at it and comment, it could help me see how the readership sees it
Thanks
I think it would stand out more if it was colorized but don't think that will happen. I would suggest that mid drawing(baseof the mountain rocky area and the grass) if it had more detail (trees, brush rocks night time flying creatures/insects) may break up what I see as a bunch of open space
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I have to correct myself.
This thing is currently 428 pages with three missing chapters, so over 500 pages I'm thinking.
I had 250-270 ish printed pages but when they format for the 5X8 size it blew it out W A Y L O N G E R
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The work continues, man what a bunch of effort this thing has been. And I was thinking it was a 250 page book, boy was I wrong. Up through chapter 12 now with the editing and the thing has 356 pages currently and is still missing 3 chapters. That means I am looking at somewhere from 450-500 pages in this first work of the Thoren series. Unless I am mistaken, that's the size of the thing so far.
So I need some input, and Andrea, our young artist needs some input. As I have stated earlier, Andrea is just starting and we all want this book and her illustrations to provide her a stepping stone into the career field. I want the book to be top notch and I want her work to speak as highly about her as it can.
I am sharing the illustration she just submitted to sit opposite one of the chapter starts. I am not sure how I feel about it, sort of like it, but feel it is missing some detail. To help me, if some of you could look at it and comment, it could help me see how the readership sees it
Thanks
OK from the 0.02 of a hack artist; the lack of detail is firelight reflecting off the gents sitting closest to the fire. brighter light, etc. she could give some skeletal outlines to the center mage looking fellow, but you have to understand that the illustrations need to keep continuity with the earlier illustrations as though the same Thoren historian were drawing them. look back at earlier pieces. do the light and shadow effects appear similarly? is there a drastic change from one chapter to the next? this is what she will be judged on by other artists objectively viewing her work. if you want to help her, you need to make these points and have her review her own work. maybe she was just tired that day...
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it seems to be coming down to Andrea closing the loop on this.
I now have in my possession the entire novel. All 544 pages of it! I still have to check and agree or change the final three chapters edits and comments, but then it is done except for the missing illustrations, eleven in all remaining.
Once we get those the thing will go into formatting and upon my final approval, go into actual production.
We're closing in on the finished product.
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Great news
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The work continues, man what a bunch of effort this thing has been. And I was thinking it was a 250 page book, boy was I wrong. Up through chapter 12 now with the editing and the thing has 356 pages currently and is still missing 3 chapters. That means I am looking at somewhere from 450-500 pages in this first work of the Thoren series. Unless I am mistaken, that's the size of the thing so far.
So I need some input, and Andrea, our young artist needs some input. As I have stated earlier, Andrea is just starting and we all want this book and her illustrations to provide her a stepping stone into the career field. I want the book to be top notch and I want her work to speak as highly about her as it can.
I am sharing the illustration she just submitted to sit opposite one of the chapter starts. I am not sure how I feel about it, sort of like it, but feel it is missing some detail. To help me, if some of you could look at it and comment, it could help me see how the readership sees it
Thanks
From an artistic perspective it’s hard to say without the context of that chapter.
However the figure to the far right seems un naturally upright and chest and legs seem out of place compared to the other figures.
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The work continues, man what a bunch of effort this thing has been. And I was thinking it was a 250 page book, boy was I wrong. Up through chapter 12 now with the editing and the thing has 356 pages currently and is still missing 3 chapters. That means I am looking at somewhere from 450-500 pages in this first work of the Thoren series. Unless I am mistaken, that's the size of the thing so far.
So I need some input, and Andrea, our young artist needs some input. As I have stated earlier, Andrea is just starting and we all want this book and her illustrations to provide her a stepping stone into the career field. I want the book to be top notch and I want her work to speak as highly about her as it can.
I am sharing the illustration she just submitted to sit opposite one of the chapter starts. I am not sure how I feel about it, sort of like it, but feel it is missing some detail. To help me, if some of you could look at it and comment, it could help me see how the readership sees it
Thanks
From an artistic perspective it’s hard to say without the context of that chapter.
However the figure to the far right seems un naturally upright and chest and legs seem out of place compared to the other figures.
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I think "far right guy" is standing up in the foreground while the others are sitting around the fire which would make his size disproportionate to the surroundings.
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So we are not at the finish line but I do see a light at the end of the tunnel.
I am now editing the final two chapters of this book
We are a little behind on the illustrations so Andrea certainly has her work cut out for her, but I am sure she can rise to the occasion and get it all done.
She, unfortunately, suffered a disappointment today (I think). I sent in her book cover proposal and it was shot down. It didn't meet the standards the publisher was looking for. But it may be a soft landing for her, as I am trying to get the color illustration inside the book somewhere.
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Yesterday I finished checking all the editorial comments for the final three chapters.
The writing process is something like this:
You have an idea
Make up an outline
First you write something
Next you go back over it correcting misspellings and structure
Next you write some more
You will find yourself going backward often to insert something to tie in better with subsequent writings
You repeat this process
Finally you reach a point where it ends and you've said what you want to say
You submit the work to publishers
You get picked up or just hire one
They review the work and assign an editing team
You contract up and get at it.
They will edit maybe 10,000-20,000 words at a time. For me we did about three chapters at a time
You get their edit and review it. You make your final changes, then sign off on that piece
While all this is going on, the book cover design is in progress.
The editing process goes on and on until you get completely done
You approve a book cover
All along the way you add/subtract/change art as necessary
Finally all the art is compiled to the written word
Next the layout people lay the thing out. Chapters start on the right, skip pages, and balance everything
You finally get a completed work to approve, with proofed pages, hundreds of them
You make one final check of that and when satisfied, sign off on the work. This closes the door to changes
A copyright, a ISBN, and a library of congress numbers are applied for and received back
Those are added into the book and with that it is ready to print
The print people get busy and digital copies of the book are uploaded to Amazon and others
You have a work that can now be ordered or downloaded
The audio book process begins with the author hearing several readers present
The author approves the actual reader who will then be recorded into audio files
That process continues until you have a complete work
The audio book now becomes available for download
The Author is done. He will be paid twice a year from sales
If he was picked up by a publisher, he is paid according to a schedule and does not make very much. Generally, he makes 15%-20% of gross proceeds which aren't much. If he hired the publisher he makes the opposite end, 80%-85%.
In any case 95% or more of all books written barely break even. In the case of this book, THoren, I decided to hire out the publishing this time. It cost me $4,500 to start the process. I'll have to sell hundreds to perhaps a couple thousand to break even which I do not expect to do. I did this because I promised my son that I would write him a book, and I made good my word.
But in doing so, I did something else. I want to build into the kingdom of God, and that's why I borrowed from the bible. About mid book, I realized there would be a second and possibly a third book to tell this story. In the next book I will introduce God directly into the text. I want to show him walking amongst his people. Exactly how I do that and what period of time this story occupies in the historical record is one of the great surprises to come. My greatest hope is to introduce a lot of people to God and Jesus through this near brush with him
We'll see if it works
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Some of Andrea's latest work:
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Who said it would be easy.
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Who said it would be easy.
...No one, ever!
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J-bomb (A friend) who designs web sites just built this one for me and the book/writing activity
I think he did a great job
https://donharwardbooks.com/
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Website looks good Don!
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Website looks good Don!
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There's one in a row! Notice anything familiar in there?
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Saw the piece from Andrea on the Thoren page, I haven’t had a chance to ask her if she’s taken a look at the website yet.
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Nice
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Saw the piece from Andrea on the Thoren page, I haven’t had a chance to ask her if she’s taken a look at the website yet.
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I'm getting favorable comments about it
When it is done, there will be a place for her to blog with folks interested in her work
My friend who built the website will be gone for awhile. He owns a gold mine in Africa and is off to replace excavator hoses and get muddy. When he gets back I'll see if he can build it out some more
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just a recommendation so that the new site dose not end up like this one.
- make sure that you get a master copy of the HTML, Javascript, Java, C++, whatever language file
- make sure that you get all of the usernames and passwords and links to whatever server is hosting the site
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I think I have a cover and back designed. This is a mockup of what I think we will be going for...
I am using a piece of Andrea's work here. What do you all think?
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Looks great
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Looks great to me, though I may be a bit biased.
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Looks great.
Are the about the book and author intentionally another language?
Or was this a just for the feel of it thing.
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Looks good
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Looks great.
Are the about the book and author intentionally another language?
Or was this a just for the feel of it thing.
Yes, just some latin thrown in there to show something written. Actual script is yet to be invented
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:likebutton:
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Love it!
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Finished the cover today
This is what it will actually look like:
Chris made the illustration larger, added my pic and framed in gold, added in my bio, dropped the "About the book", and enlarged the font to better fit a book which will be 1.5" thick.
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Anne, the senior editor offered me the opportunity to place art on the 10 blank pages, so we are currently busy filling that tall order. As of tonight Andrea inked in eight total so far. They are scanned and submitted. The blank pages were necessary to insure the chapters start always on the right side of the page.
Chris, the project manager thinks he will be able to print the very first copy by COB this week. This is a necessary final step in the process. The author must sign off on an actual book. Up to the point I do, anything could still be changed, but once I seal the deal, the necessary print files for the print on demand publishers are created. One of those files goes to the library of congress, one to copy right and one to get the ISBN
We should be for sale in June. So writing this book will have taken darned close to one year. I hope the sequel is not as labor intensive.
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I know of one young lady that is very excited about that cover Don. She was equally excited about the chance to put some more artwork together for it.
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Looks great!
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I know of one young lady that is very excited about that cover Don. She was equally excited about the chance to put some more artwork together for it.
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She did a great full court press yesterday. I needed 10 total additional illustrations. I already sent in foru "Extras" so they would have something in the event one of the accepted illustrations caused problems. So they picked up those four. I quickly scanned that first one she did of the "Chasm" and in it went.
Then she had her "Doodle" page with three shield and sword detail sketch's. I told her to ink those in and turn em into real pics. Those were 6-7, and 8. Then there was the two banners she did months ago. I am still waiting for them, but I think I'll have them in hours. The publisher is eagerly awaiting as they are now doing the final assembly.
Oh, and it won't be too long before I'll come ah-callin' again with another opportunity as the second of the series fleshes out.
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The first proof of the book is in the mail!
Still a part of the process, and it will not have an ISBN or a CC, this is the final step for me to take. I have to actually hold the thing and look it over and when/if I approve it, then we are finally finished with the "Change" portion of the process. Beyond this final step, we go get the copyright, and upon receipt of that, upload the print files to the print on demand sites and the book goes on sale.
Since I am sharing all this so that others will learn about what is involved in the publishing of a book, let me share some information about the pricing and how, who makes the money.
I've discovered the great Amazon "Print on demand" scam that in my view ruins the process and removes almost any chance for a legitimate author to make any money. I would estimate that maybe one tenth of one percent of authors make any money at all. Hundreds of books are actually written a month with the vast majority being self-published.
Amazon and Barns and Nobel essentially own the industry and very much control it.
So when Thoren is finally ready and we upload it, I have to agree to their pricing structure. The pricing is based on whether the book is B&W or color. A color book involves a different process which more than doubles the cost of the printing.
I selected B&W, meaning that I had to change the two color illustrations to B&W. The reason was the price. The industry more or less sets the asking price of the book and based on the almost 600 pages of Thoren, the book will come in at $25 for a paperback and I think mid 30's for a hard cover.
Of that $25, there are printing fees and the "Amazon Royalty. These are non-negotiable. To print Thoren, it costs $7.81. The Amazon royalty is $10.01!! I will make $7.81 from a single sale. Keep in mind I will have to pay income taxes from that so, I'll really be making something around $5 a copy! Now I'll tithe 10% off that, and will give as well, and well, that is really irrelevant, but you get the idea.
I paid $4,500 for the publishing services including the all important editing. That means the first 700 copies I sell will only pay expenses. I then will pay for the illustrations so, really, unless this book takes off which is highly doubtful, I won't make any money, but Amazon will have made nearly $8,000 from those minimum sales.
Although I'd want to make something from this, writing Thoren was not about money. As you know, I wrote it to fulfill a promise to my son, so when that first copy rolls off the press, I am "Mission accomplished" and a satisfied man.
I haven't even calculated how many books I'd have to sell to pay for the time I spent on this. For nearly six months I wrote anywhere from a couple hours to around twelve hours a day. Suffice it to say I spent a lot of time on this project. Now let's consider my normal wages when I worked. Now I don't want to say too much here, but I was a high income guy compared to most. I'd say a grand a day, sometimes much higher, so do the math. If I took as much time out of my day when I was doing my professional stuff, well, there was no time remaining after giving my other job 12-20 hours a day.
I'd have to sell books in the range of 50,000 or better to maintain my normal level of income.
So what does all that mean? I think all this industrial profit taking by the big publishers just stifles creativity. People can't even earn enough to pay rent and eat if they write. Now if you toss out the professional editing services and just upload your book from your computer, then yea, you'll make more, not having the publishing costs, but I feel the product will be of a much lower quality. So normally creative people are going to simply bypass the challenge of writing a book unless they have another means of income. Maybe that's the future. He Jeff Bezos of the world just sit back while everyone around them sends their work and earnings to his bank account. I suppose that is the system we're in.
Now, I am going to do an experiment. I am going to self-publish a simple book, called "CIEMR," as an experiment.
My plan is to edit my already published CIEMR essays, writing a little prelude to each and toss them together into something around 270 pages. I'll go get my own ISBN and CC, and upload it myself. I think I may even find an independent print on demand company and attach a purchase tab somewhere to buy it. But the book will get very little marketing and probably sell very few copies, but I want to do it as an experiment.
So that's it so far. Still on track to go on sale in June some time.
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We are about to release the book.
I have made some final changes to Andrea's artwork. She drew up some better illustrations and they have been incorporated.
I could publish this week, but we are printing up another single and putting it in my hands to verify the integrity and quality of the art.
The cool news is I wrote a nice note on the inside cover of the very first one and mailed it off to that Pfc in Germany. Nate now has it in his hands. A birthday present. A book his father wrote for him while he went through Infantry training and joined his unit in the 3rd Infantry Division.
Frankly, to me, that marks "mission complete." I set out to write him a book. Many hundreds of hours later and a few thousand dollars and he has that copyrighted work in his hand. He will have it forever. I wrote in the note on the inside cover, but in the years to come when I no longer walk this earthly place, if he ever gets lonely for his dad, I told him to just open the book, and he will find me in those pages.
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Welĺ done sir, well done
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Good job Don! This is exciting. I’m glad the final artwork worked out so far.
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Good job Don! This is exciting. I’m glad the final artwork worked out so far.
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Yes, Dave, it has up to this point. The proof in the pudding will be to see if it transfers onto paper from the extensive print files at a high enough quality. Your daughter should be proud. Now she has something to add to her resume as she pushes forward to a career in this field.
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Welĺ done sir, well done
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Thank you
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Good job sir. Great gift.
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:likebutton: :likebutton:
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As of tonight, the E-book is for published and available first, it looks like, on Amazon
The paperback will be available tomorrow, the 20th some time
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B72FXPF9/ref=sr_1_8?crid=3TGCA3N6XM07L&keywords=thoren+ebook&qid=1658282397&sprefix=thorne+book%2Caps%2C98&sr=8-8&asin=B0B72FXPF9&revisionId=be1f7030&format=1&depth=1
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I think I’ve sold a handful of copies to Andrea’s aunts and uncles already once the paperback is available.
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Outstanding
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Paperback is now available on Amazon.
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I think I’ve sold a handful of copies to Andrea’s aunts and uncles already once the paperback is available.
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Thanks Dave! I think your daughter will appreciate that. I have to think she must be proud of her work right about now!
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Good job sir. Great gift.
Thanks Matt
I'm stoked by giving this to my son, but it turns out it blessed some others and actually blessed me as well.
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Outstanding
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You'll have some new signed books for next year's race to give away!
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Outstanding
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You'll have some new signed books for next year's race to give away!
That would be awesome. Thank you
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Here's the link:
https://www.amazon.com/Thoren-Don-Harward/dp/B0B6XDQP5V/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1658412020&sr=8-13
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Ordered a copy yesterday I'll get you to sign it next time i see you!
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I ordered one, should be sitting on the table when Andrea gets home from the conference.
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Order mine today
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Folks on here, when you order one, do me a favor and let me know on this thread when you did so, assuming you ordered from Amazon
Here's why:
Several folks are all saying the same thing, they ordered a copy
But, guess what?
My dashboard on Amazon shows 2 sales on day one and zero since...Ya, 2!!!!!!!!
I have heard this from many other authors, that Amazon doesn't tell the author how many they are selling and just keeps all the money for themselves. If I have a good tally on confirms and they say no, and you can prove it, I'll go after them.
I hate cheaters and liars and thieves!
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Order mine today
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Big brown truck delivered mine today
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Mine was delivered on Saturday and my sister received one on Sunday.
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Mind you, I have done zero marketing so far. but I am getting this from all over..."I ordered mine yesterday, or I just downloaded mine."
But my Amazon dashboard reports they have sold just 6 books!!!!!
So it seems to be true what many authors have said about them. Amazon allegedly will sell bunches of copies of an author's book and simply not report the sales to the author. That way they don't have to share the proceeds with anyone.
If I can prove this to be true, I will remove them from my sales queue and sell the book elsewhere.
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Sounds like a perfect case for class action suit. But is really worth it in $$ or personally?
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Sounds like a perfect case for class action suit. But is really worth it in $$ or personally?
Not worth it from the $$$ aspect. But well worth it from the perspective of taking down a big bully who thinks he is untouchable.
Truth is that these big bullies...are...untouchable
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Enjoying the book and the art work is outstanding. Well done
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Enjoying the book and the art work is outstanding. Well done
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:likebutton: :likebutton: :likebutton:
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Just so you know, I hold these comments about her artwork back until she is in a less than pleasant mood or have a bad day. Then I read them to her and it perks her right up for some reason. :)
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Just so you know, I hold these comments about her artwork back until she is in a less than pleasant mood or have a bad day. Then I read them to her and it perks her right up for some reason. :)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Dad psychology right there