To build or not to build

[TexasRedNeck]

So, I'm not sure if this should be in the Build Thread section or maybe in drive line.  Mods feel free to move. (change my profile or whatever else yall do to harass me...)

I would like to have a purely mechanical vehicle for a number of reasons.  A friend is offering me a free vehicle and I'm contemplating whether it might be worth a build, knowing that I am likely to go full retard oil change...

So here is the vehicle:  It is a 1985 Land Rover Series III 88 inch wheelbase 4cyl gas. It is right hand drive.  Body is aluminum and interior has been redone.

Frame is rusted and would have to be replaced.  I would not want to keep the gas engine and I would look to likely have different running gear.

Admittedly I have no experience with Rovers.  I do know that complete aftermarket galvanized chassis is available so the frame issue is easy to fix.  The track width is 4ft. 3 1/2 inches.

I envision a new frame and hanging heavier duty axles underneath it and buying a P Pump 4bt and manual trans.

I'm out of my element here and could use some real world advice.  Does a RHD vehicle make swapping running  gear (front axle and steering) a challenge?  I know I can weld and fit the 4bt and transmission, but the transfer case and axles give me some heartburn.  While it may be a free vehicle its easily a 10K plus project with new frame and a running 4bt and some new axles and transfer case.

It would fit the bill of no power anything, no AC, nada.  Simple and bullet proof and go anywhere.

So any advice here?  Should I just buy an old Jeep and run the other direction from this thing?

[Flyin6]

Could you change it to left hand drive?

Do you just want to build something unique?

If the answer is no, then what reason would you have to build something that would be such a challenge.

An old jeep would fit the ticket wouldn't it?

And, just today, I found a small collection of WW2 jeeps. At a car lot!

One is pretty complete. hat would be something to consider building, or a M38, old J-10 Jeep, or a CJ-2 to CJ-5

Heck a texas found Scout II would by far be my first choice

[stlaser]

Could you change it to left hand drive?

Do you just want to build something unique?

If the answer is no, then what reason would you have to build something that would be such a challenge.

An old jeep would fit the ticket wouldn't it?

And, just today, I found a small collection of WW2 jeeps. At a car lot!

One is pretty complete. hat would be something to consider building, or a M38, old J-10 Jeep, or a CJ-2 to CJ-5

Heck a texas found Scout II would by far be my first choice

Negative on the Scout IMO, they aren't that great off road even built from my experience.

So free isn't really free here. Do you need a truck or a SUV? Personally I would find a TJ that needs some love if an SUV fits the bill. Maybe one that needs a driveline. Tons of aftermarket support to get the driveline you want in there and be plenty capable.

[TexasRedNeck]

Free aint always cheap, I guess.

What about something like this for a project?  I want a 4bt 4wd that can carry 4 and no electronics.

https://houston.craigslist.org/cto/d/1982-cj8-scrambler-price/6235007807.html

[stlaser]

Free aint always cheap, I guess.

What about something like this for a project?  I want a 4bt 4wd that can carry 4 and no electronics.

https://houston.craigslist.org/cto/d/1982-cj8-scrambler-price/6235007807.html

Personally I dislike leaf sprung jeeps, but that's just me which is why I said a TJ. There is a place here local that parts complete jeeps out. To me it seems all you really need is a body and frame. You don't want the electronics & buying it like this that stuff is stripped out already so they did a bunch of work for you. Then buy an after market suspension, axles, tires, motor, trans, t-case (steering column or hydro setup?) & large fuel tank the way you want it. Really this sounds like the tube chassis builds I used to do...... sometimes we used a tj tub to start too....

Plenty of chassis guys making roller 4 seat tube chassis now with 1 ton axles....

Edit again: more I think about this maybe that's the way to go. Super light to let that 4bt use all its minimal power to go go

[KensAuto]

That sounds much better than trying to turn that English pos into a Texas Pinky. ∆∆∆

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[cruizng]

TRN. Not sure if you have seen this but on the Xtreme Off Road show he is modifying a LR Defender 90.

He is putting a Jeep JK frame underneath and 1 ton axles. He is keeping it right hand drive and shows how easy it is to put the steering box on the JK Frame because they were also sold as right hand drive.

Not sure you want to go as deep as he is doing but if the frame on that one is all rusted out it might be good to start with a JK frame and build up.

http://www.powernationtv.com/episode/XO2017-16/xtreme-xpedition-upgrades

 

[stlaser]

I know this doesn't happen very often but I agree with Ken's sentiments

[EL TATE]

If you're going to do the Rover, definitely lose the original drivetrain. 74-79 wagoneer axles are passenger drop, 80-92 are driver's side. I like the CJ-8's but like Shawn said, coil spring is mo-better, but if you're not rock crawling leaf spring is fine. besides, you could drop the 4bt in the CJ with ease, or even a sb 350 without any real effort.

[stlaser]

There you go, 350 on pane! I have the parts you need for that pane conversion TRN.....

[Bob Smith]

JEEP....So much knowledge here and so many parts available why would you even think of building a Rover when you could have a real cool Jeep.

[wyorunner]

Stlaser, correct me if I'm
Wrong..... but i feel like coils might be over kill, considering from my tiny amount of understanding they work better in extreme off-road and of course ride better, but also take a little more to install unless already there.

Thinking the three and four link type installs.

So while coils might be better, do you need them TRN? Is this vehicle planned for a significant amount of off-roading? If not wouldn't leafs be just as good in this case? And less expensive and easier?

TRN, what kind of build are you aiming for here?

I too think I would stay away from the rover unless it was a left hand drive vehicle, and away front the scout. One of the main reasons is parts availability, which I believe would be slim for both. Maybe an 80s blazer bronco Ramcharger, big but can still be built very capable, can be found in expensive, and can be entirely mechanical...

There is a Toyota pickup with 144k miles on it in Tucson for 1500, that's entirely mechanical!
 



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[stlaser]

Stlaser, correct me if I'm
Wrong..... but i feel like coils might be over kill, considering from my tiny amount of understanding they work better in extreme off-road and of course ride better, but also take a little more to install unless already there.

Thinking the three and four link type installs.

So while coils might be better, do you need them TRN? Is this vehicle planned for a significant amount of off-roading? If not wouldn't leafs be just as good in this case? And less expensive and easier?

TRN, what kind of build are you aiming for here?

I too think I would stay away from the rover unless it was a left hand drive vehicle, and away front the scout. One of the main reasons is parts availability, which I believe would be slim for both. Maybe an 80s blazer bronco Ramcharger, big but can still be built very capable, can be found in expensive, and can be entirely mechanical...

There is a Toyota pickup with 144k miles on it in Tucson for 1500, that's entirely mechanical!
 



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Hard to beat coil springs & you can buy mount buckets for them from a number of 4x4 fab outfits. I've broken many leafs springs in two, I've even bent several in an S shape running too few in a pack & too much torque on the axle. Coil springs best I can do is pop one out of a mount. Pretty easy fix, if the vehicle is not an overland setup hauling everything including the kitchen sink then I think you are at a disadvantage running anything but coils. Just my 2 cents from my youth abusing trucks.....

[wyorunner]

Stlaser, correct me if I'm
Wrong..... but i feel like coils might be over kill, considering from my tiny amount of understanding they work better in extreme off-road and of course ride better, but also take a little more to install unless already there.

Thinking the three and four link type installs.

So while coils might be better, do you need them TRN? Is this vehicle planned for a significant amount of off-roading? If not wouldn't leafs be just as good in this case? And less expensive and easier?

TRN, what kind of build are you aiming for here?

I too think I would stay away from the rover unless it was a left hand drive vehicle, and away front the scout. One of the main reasons is parts availability, which I believe would be slim for both. Maybe an 80s blazer bronco Ramcharger, big but can still be built very capable, can be found in expensive, and can be entirely mechanical...

There is a Toyota pickup with 144k miles on it in Tucson for 1500, that's entirely mechanical!
 



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Hard to beat coil springs & you can buy mount buckets for them from a number of 4x4 fab outfits. I've broken many leafs springs in two, I've even bent several in an S shape running too few in a pack & too much torque on the axle. Coil springs best I can do is pop one out of a mount. Pretty easy fix, if the vehicle is not an overland setup hauling everything including the kitchen sink then I think you are at a disadvantage running anything but coils. Just my 2 cents from my youth abusing trucks.....

Definitely can't argue with broken leafs, I've seen it on my brothers trucks countless times. He has resorted to a rough ride with solid rubber in between the frame and the axle, I've tried to get him to add a coil or run bigger leafs, but he won't do it. And another friends old 4Runner wrapped one to the point of shearing he pinion. My 4Runner had coils cause it was an 02, both our rigs now have leafs, because that's what was on em when we bought them.

Aside from spring buckets, what's the work required for the link setup?  Buckets don't seem difficult they're on par with a leaf install, it's the link geometry that has me a little befuddled.

And from your youth? Didn't you only get out of the fab business a handful of years ago? Meaning you were working with coils up until then?

[stlaser]

Lol, I'm welding today. Actually just sat down to let the component cool before I release it from my table & weld the last portion. Trying to keep it from warping.

Abusing trucks was something I did with a lot more determination when I was younger! Now I try not to break stuff & enjoy the view when I'm in back country.

As far as setting up links it's not that hard. There are plenty of link calculators online to help with that. Buying the joints for the link ends is the largest expense. If he bought a rolling tube chassis the builder would set that up or a tj or jk already has them mounted to the frame you would just need to install mounts on axles and buy the suspension of your choice.

[TexasRedNeck]

Wow. I love you guys(in a non gay kind of way).

I don't plan on rock crawling. The more I think of it after reading a bit the 4bt may be a novelty. I hear the vibration and weight and need to hear correctly can make them impractical.

Truth be told I want a simple EMP proof, no electronics, no emission requirement (older than 24 years in texas - which means 1983 newest)  go places larger vehicles can't go vehicle. Currently living in metropolis means I may have trouble getting out(ok I will have trouble getting out ) and I'd like something stupid simple and reliable and tough (ish). I like the flat steel dash of the early 70s jeeps from an aesthetics perspective and more and more the inline 258 seems a good fit.

 


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[wyorunner]

Toyota Land Cruiser Fj60. Small enough to wheel and take you anywhere you want, solid steel, already has a solid front axle.

Spacious enough for the fam and the gear, and big enough to put a diesel in, such as a 6bt. I've seen a couple with the gm 6.5.

One issue that the have is a giant rear end, meaning the length from the tire to the end of the bumper is ridiculous, which leads a terrible departure angle.


Much of this is the same for the heeps I'm just a Toyota guy so my first thought is always there.

[rcampbell]

Wow. I love you guys(in a non gay kind of way).

I don't plan on rock crawling. The more I think of it after reading a bit the 4bt may be a novelty. I hear the vibration and weight and need to hear correctly can make them impractical.

Truth be told I want a simple EMP proof, no electronics, no emission requirement (older than 24 years in texas - which means 1993 newest)  go places larger vehicles can't go vehicle. Currently living in metropolis means I may have trouble getting out(ok I will have trouble getting out ) and I'd like something stupid simple and reliable and tough (ish). I like the flat steel dash of the early 70s jeeps from an aesthetics perspective and more and more the inline 258 seems a good fit.

 


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Math typo. Don't force yourself to get a vehicle from 1983 unless you really want to! :)

[TexasRedNeck]

Never thought about an fj60.  fj40 maybe but never an fj60.  Seems big for what I had in mind.  nice 40s are stupid expensive (but very cool)

I really like the clean steel dash of the early 70s jeeps (no pad)

I've vacillated between military vehicles or something more practical.  I just think I'd get more use out of a small 4wd than a LMTV

[stlaser]

Are you stuck on diesel power?


Edit: what are Texas laws on assembled vehicles & emissions?

[TexasRedNeck]

stuck on stupid, yes.  Diesel no.  I thought I was but trying to be more practical.  straight 6s are hard to beat for simple gas powerplants.

[wyorunner]

You can find a non running 40 with minimal to no rust for a reasonable amount. Then spend all the money on making what you want, it seems like every common gas power plant has been stuffed into them too.


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[TexasRedNeck]

This is an example of what I was thinking.  I know, I know, its red, but that was a coincidence.

https://houston.craigslist.org/cto/d/jeep-cj5-one-of-kind-runs/6199754221.html

[stlaser]

You could buy something like that. As long as it has points it should be pretty emp proof i.e.: close to all mechanical as possible. I would then convert to pane, fuel burns clean & will store forever. My EB sat for a couple years before we moved. I threw a new battery in it and cracked open the tank and it started right up. Every time I pulled plugs or change oil it was super clean. Again, I'd go the tube chassis route myself, but I like building them & they're capable. Not much will stop a well built unit.

[wyorunner]

Yea you'd be hard pressed to find a 40 in that condition for that price. But I'm sure there's some out there.


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[stlaser]

Why not an older xj 4.0L?

[cudakidd53]

For a SHTF egress vehicle, I wouldn't want an open air version.  Everything is on display and easy to grab, unless you are planning on 4 armed and able to shoot occupants.  Shawns propane route seems like a great option also and should allow for switching back to gasoline easily as well.

[stlaser]

  Shawns propane route seems like a great option also and should allow for switching back to gasoline easily as well.

It is & you can get actual dual fuel setups.

[EL TATE]

Charles, here are a couple near you that could have dana 44 rear, rather than the amc 20:
https://houston.craigslist.org/cto/d/1975-cj-5-jeep/6218118079.html
https://houston.craigslist.org/cto/d/1974-jeep-cj-5/6246979794.html


This one is much nicer and Def has dana rear.
https://houston.craigslist.org/cto/d/1974-jeep-cj-5/6209148913.html

[TexasRedNeck]

propane is interesting for a vehicle that sits a lot....

Guys I know nothing about jeeps or all the combos of differentials in them.  I also really like the FJ40 size, the 60 not so much but I can't say that I've been up close to one.  I'm looking for rugged and simple but drivable too.  Which is why I'm leaning towards ruling out things like an LMTV and Unimog Doka

I've driven a few CJs and like them, although the scrambler is really cool but again, stupid expensive like the FJ40

I may have to take another look at the M37s but unlike the CJ, i can't exactly put a jump seat in the back to haul 4

What am I missing?

[wyorunner]

TRN,

The main intended purpose of said vehicle (whatever it ends up being) is to be without electronics, correct? I ask this because like a cat, there's is always more than one way to skin it...

For example, a 1st gen Toyota 4runner (yea I'm a bit biased to toyota, more so the 4runner), could be acquired for a couple thousand dollars. I believe if you get an 84 it may already have a solid front axle, but really as stlaser noted, coils would be the way to go. So if you bought one with IFS and did an SAS you could do coils at the same time. Then with the SAS you could stuff in an inline 6. Or go all kinds of custom and turbo a 22R.

What I'm aiming at here is, how much work are you wanting to do? Do you want start with a running vehicle or just a chassis and body? Or just go all out and spend 18k and buy a built rig?

As far as an FJ60, its about the size of a ford explorer, maybe a little longer. But they are way tougher, and the 6cyl in them is a torque-y chunk o' iron, 4.2l inline 6 I believe...

Landcruisers 40 or 60 or a cj are probably the best place to start because they all have a solid front axle already. There are also some older diesel landcruisers available. Obviously they fetch a bit more, but could be a great place to start.  Then you could just put bigger axle shafts if you felt the need, and lockers.

Like this place: http://www.landcruisersdirect.com/

As far as LMTV or Doka, or any other mil surplus, I suppose they could have their place, but the biggest problem with them, is the fact they are big and without equipment they can be a pain to work on. Ken can probably chime in here better as he still has a 925 I believe. 

Look forward to seeing what you do.

[Farmer Jon]

They made a right hand drive 4 runner. So you could get the 4 runner frame and get the parts to convert it to right hand drive. Throw the body on and there you go. Sounds so simple.

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[cruizng]

If you liked Jeeps this one would be a great find. 44K original miles for $5500.

The only problem for TRN is it isn't red like the one he found. 

[stlaser]

TRN, I know of a cj8 sitting on a 1 ton Chevy truck frame / running gear 454/205/60/14 that has the frame shortened. It is a project as the cj body is stripped but it could be had for $3k I think. Major parts are all there just needs assembled and painted......

[Mrwoody]

TRN,
there is a 78 Land Rover Santana with Diesel engine on BringATrailer.com . That auction ends today.

[Flyin6]

This is an example of what I was thinking.  I know, I know, its red, but that was a coincidence.

https://houston.craigslist.org/cto/d/jeep-cj5-one-of-kind-runs/6199754221.html

Like this!

[stlaser]

This is an example of what I was thinking.  I know, I know, its red, but that was a coincidence.

https://houston.craigslist.org/cto/d/jeep-cj5-one-of-kind-runs/6199754221.html

Like this!

Probably about as inexpensive / quick build your gunna find that would be reliable. Guessing a jump seat & a couple fork lift tanks would fit in the cargo space to setup a dual fuel scenario.

[TexasRedNeck]

Thanks Shawn.  i thought so. For you Toyota guys, what do you think about this?

https://easttexas.craigslist.org/cto/6245518058.html

its two basket cases and is a good bit along on frame off.  Hes in a remote part of Texas so it may take a while to sell it and I can probably get it a bit less

[KensAuto]

Wow. That's what this guy thinks. I really am fond of those Fjs.

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[wyorunner]

That's a pretty good deal on the 40s. Obviously a lot of work, and will inevitably run into a "where is this part" issue. Looks like it would definitely be worth it if you got the space to store all of it and work on it... and the time.

Nice thing is, once you were done with your build, you could sell off the rest of the pieces that you don't use.

Do you have a trailer or access to a trailer to haul it all at once?


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[cudakidd53]

That option seems like a great direction based upon your goals should the reality be close the add.  Guess it's dependent upon your ability to store and move them both and then how dispose of the leftover pieces and parts. 

[swbhobie16]

alittle late to the party, but i know a guy who has a SBC propane setup for sale. if you end up going that route.

[Bob Smith]

I looked at a couple deals like that before I ended up with the jeep I now have. Just don't care to take on the work any more, or listen to someone telling me to clean up the mess all the time.

[Nate]

Would you be interested in something like this?

[Bob Smith]

Nate, is that a local truck? I worked with a guy years ago that had one just like it

[Nate]

It is currently just down the street from where i am staying at in lincoln nebraska, and i can get info on it for somebody if they would be interested.

[TexasRedNeck]

As cool as that is Nate, I'm thinking smaller.  I already have two huge trucks.  If the guy still has them I may go look at those FJs in a couple weeks when I get back from commifornia

[stlaser]

It is currently just down the street from where i am staying at in lincoln nebraska, and i can get info on it for somebody if they would be interested.

You in NB for work or did you relocate again?

[dave945]

 Nate,  that truck looks great. Is it for sale or just "maybe for sale if someone drops the right cash in his palm"?  Figure I could put the wife and a few of the lighter kids in the cab, the rest can hang out in the bed.

[Nate]

Nate,  that truck looks great. Is it for sale or just "maybe for sale if someone drops the right cash in his palm"?  Figure I could put the wife and a few of the lighter kids in the cab, the rest can hang out in the bed.

Yes it is for sale, if you want the info i can stop and get a pic of the for sale sign.