REAL MAN TRUCKWORKS & SURVIVAL
WEAPONS => Firearms => Topic started by: KensAuto on December 13, 2014, 11:57:56 PM
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I've recently been shooting up to a 1000 yards and thought I would share. I would also like to thank Texasredneck for some guidance back when I first set up my new turreted scope.
I know there's guys shooting WAY past that mark, but 1000 is still a decent goal.
This spot I have behind my house, is good for 1500+. At 1000, I was having trouble seeing my hits....so every 5 shots I had to drive to the target to inspect. Today I made a hanger for an ar500 target I recently acquired, so now I can just listen for the "gong" sound.
Here's the "range". The pic is taken from the gun bench and end of the trail in the background is 1000.
(http://i.imgur.com/sF6tD06.jpg)
This is looking through the new Trijicon Accupoint:
(http://i.imgur.com/c0zxPPB.jpg)
...and through the spotting scope:
(http://i.imgur.com/um51F30.jpg)
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This is the AR500 1/2" plate:
(http://i.imgur.com/h0kZqO0.jpg)
I wanted something lightweight, and somewhat bullet proof, so I turned to rebar.
OK, so the real reason is I have a boatload of rebar!
The top pipe is heavy walled with holes drilled larger than the hanging bars. I used the torch to bend the lower ends into hooks, to hold the plate. Washers were welded to the top of the bars, but not to the pipe. The concept is to keep everything loose, so that the plate "gongs" loudly. Chain or cable is popular for this reason, but with Ken shooting, I don't think they would last very long.
I then found some thin pipe that would slip over the main pipe and made 2 pieces about 6" long. I took 2, 100" sections of rebar, and heated the middle of them til red, then wrapped them around the short pipes, and welded them up. I capped the outer ends so the main cross pipe would bottom out.
(http://i.imgur.com/4swCAUI.jpg)
then drilled a couple holes for pins, then welded chains to the pins.
(http://i.imgur.com/5wPSb63.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/bcZJdNB.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/d6ogtYE.jpg)
The legs received some bracing and more torch time to bend in an offset fashion:
(http://i.imgur.com/nvATo21.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/8FurqFK.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/9mKtpxg.jpg)
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Next I will weld some angle iron across the top, to deflect any high flyers. Then the hanging bars will get some flat strap welded on edge, then sharpened, for the same reason. I'll probably leave the legs alone and see how long they last....then modify as needed.
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I like it. You using that app you posted up before? Or something different?
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I don't remember posting an app, I think that was someone else.
I use Hornady Ballistic calculator to get it close. http://www.hornady.com/
After that, I log all of the elevation, windage, temps, etc. that I come up with at the range, reenter it in their system, and vola, a printable table that gets taped to the gun.
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Ken,
I see that trusty Harbor freight welding table in the background!
Nice tables, I have two.
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I don't remember posting an app, I think that was someone else.
I use Hornady Ballistic calculator to get it close. http://www.hornady.com/
After that, I log all of the elevation, windage, temps, etc. that I come up with at the range, reenter it in their system, and vola, a printable table that gets taped to the gun.
You're right, it was JR. My bad.
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Ken,
I see that trusty Harbor freight welding table in the background!
Nice tables, I have two.
Because of you, I had 2 in the cart. Because of Ken, and the 12k winch he picked up, he had to budget one back on the shelf !
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HF is like "Toys R Us" to kids.
I saw that table too, getting closer!! Need more 25% coupons!!
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I welded some angle iron to the top pipe. I've had issues with the weatherby punching holes thru angle at 600 yards, but I'm hoping at 1000+ it has lost a sufficient amount of energy and will deflect on a 45* angle.
(http://i.imgur.com/Q4PcKdh.jpg)
I made these "bullet cutters" for the hanging bars.
(http://i.imgur.com/XQyIwMi.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/LM1Cait.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/pjTGOaA.jpg)
..then some for the plate itself, to cover over the hooks and plate holes:
(http://i.imgur.com/YlN5KZx.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/xm7TFrx.jpg)
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...and after sharpening and painting:
(http://i.imgur.com/yJqJThq.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/vVbmGWP.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/CdQMi6I.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/vvtzseW.jpg)
...then the rack received "bullet cutters" on the 2 front legs:
(http://i.imgur.com/xMJTJJs.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/sCUa0aM.jpg)
Then they were sharpened:
(http://i.imgur.com/evYIRz9.jpg)
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The rack was painted black:
(http://i.imgur.com/ywCWO7p.jpg)
...and the plate was hung with care, in hopes that St......:
(http://i.imgur.com/YYPtQvt.jpg)
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Time to get out there and knock some of that paint off!
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1000 yards...That is shooting!
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1000 yards...That is shooting!
Yeah, and I learned that if you pass even the smallest amount of gas while squeezing the trigger, the bullet will land in Japan! (I shoot towards the west) haha
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1000 yards...That is shooting!
Yeah, and I learned that if you pass even the smallest amount of gas while squeezing the trigger, the bullet will land in Japan! (I shoot towards the west) haha
I learned way back, once you pass the 5-600 mark, the margin of error is huge. Lets see some bullet splash there Ken.
I like steel plates at range, saves so much time, looking forward to how the armour hold up. We have a heck of a time with shooting targets off at our range, you may have the solution here.
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I think he does, although simple HD chain seems to hold up some...but not against .300 W Mags...
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I have shot chain off, but most of the time, it was the bolts holding the chain. I'm looking to build stuff to last the rest of my life and beyond. This should work, in theory.
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I don't have much to add but wanted to bring this topic back to life. I wish I had the room at the range to shoot that distance.
I missed the chance to meet up this past winter Ken but maybe next winter it will happen.
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I was hoping this would stay hidden for a while! I haven't even tried the target out yet, too many irons in the fire I suppose.
Bob, winter is a long summer away from now, but I'll be waiting. haha
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http://www.impactdatabooks.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=SNIPERSHIDEBOOK
http://www.allkestrel.com/products/kestrel-3000-pocket-weather-meter?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlepla&variant=484806705&gclid=CjwKEAjw-ZqrBRDt_KjhjcbzhhISJAAlRGvl9_aNT9mhh9JRxUXocs5aK9gMjxKVK8RlomkfHsChyBoCySzw_wcB
http://www.amazon.com/Leupold-20-60x80mm-Spotting-Reticle-110825/dp/B004N3HHCY/ref=sr_1_3?s=hunting-fishing&ie=UTF8&qid=1432866204&sr=1-3&keywords=mil+dot
A good log book helps, a wind meter is helpful too. Save your time and get a spotting scope and get one with a mil-dot reticle, it helps your spotter understand how to give you corrective adjustments.
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Ken, doesn't the welding on the AR500 render it susceptible to damage from rounds?
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http://www.impactdatabooks.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=SNIPERSHIDEBOOK
http://www.allkestrel.com/products/kestrel-3000-pocket-weather-meter?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlepla&variant=484806705&gclid=CjwKEAjw-ZqrBRDt_KjhjcbzhhISJAAlRGvl9_aNT9mhh9JRxUXocs5aK9gMjxKVK8RlomkfHsChyBoCySzw_wcB
http://www.amazon.com/Leupold-20-60x80mm-Spotting-Reticle-110825/dp/B004N3HHCY/ref=sr_1_3?s=hunting-fishing&ie=UTF8&qid=1432866204&sr=1-3&keywords=mil+dot
A good log book helps, a wind meter is helpful too. Save your time and get a spotting scope and get one with a mil-dot reticle, it helps your spotter understand how to give you corrective adjustments.
^^ Yes.
Vortex also makes a great spotting scope and scope with matching reticles be it MOA or MIL. And you can probably get both for the price of a Leupold, and have money left over for ammo. Don't get me wrong, Leupold makes ridiculously nice things.
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Yeah, I still drool over the one my instructor has
http://www.eurooptic.com/carl-zeiss-optronics-hensoldt-spotter-20-60x72-spotter-60.aspx
Of course he gets most of his stuff free from the mfg just as long as he does a write up and review...
And there are many low priced spotting scopes out there. They will work. They higher price gives you ruggedness, low light transmission, and some clarity. But for most of us who aren't staking our lives or livlihood on it, the top of the line scopes are just a luxury.
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Yeah, I still drool over the one my instructor has
http://www.eurooptic.com/carl-zeiss-optronics-hensoldt-spotter-20-60x72-spotter-60.aspx
Of course he gets most of his stuff free from the mfg just as long as he does a write up and review...
And there are many low priced spotting scopes out there. They will work. They higher price gives you ruggedness, low light transmission, and some clarity. But for most of us who aren't staking our lives or livlihood on it, the top of the line scopes are just a luxury.
U.S. Optics.... soo nice, soo much money.
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I like the US Optics. Had a SN3 3.8-22 but traded it on NVG. I like that they are very custom built anyway you like it.
Since then, I've gone to mostly Schmidt and Bender PMIIs with some NF F1s on ARs
Anythime you get in the $3k range for a scope you get some real good stuff. I remember in one evolution in a competition we had to go over some obstacls and through a concrete culvert to get to position to make the shot and there was a guy with a GAP .260 bolt gun and a Hensholdt scope. SOB jumped over the obstacles and then threw the weapon through the culvert so he could get through the culvert faster and make the shot. It was a time/accuracy evolution. I just shook my head. That's when I knew I was not competitive enough. No way I'm throwing a $9,000 rifle and scope through a concrete culvert just to improve my time by 1 second.
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Ken, doesn't the welding on the AR500 render it susceptible to damage from rounds?
Yes to some degree, but just close to the welds. I welded fast, without much penetration nor heat transfer. The places I welded will be bullet catchers anyway.....right angles at the bullet slicers....but only range time will tell.
I have the vortex spotter, without mils. For hunting I have swaro binos, but couldn't swing the spotting scope to match.
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I like the US Optics. Had a SN3 3.8-22 but traded it on NVG. I like that they are very custom built anyway you like it.
Since then, I've gone to mostly Schmidt and Bender PMIIs with some NF F1s on ARs
Anythime you get in the $3k range for a scope you get some real good stuff. I remember in one evolution in a competition we had to go over some obstacls and through a concrete culvert to get to position to make the shot and there was a guy with a GAP .260 bolt gun and a Hensholdt scope. SOB jumped over the obstacles and then threw the weapon through the culvert so he could get through the culvert faster and make the shot. It was a time/accuracy evolution. I just shook my head. That's when I knew I was not competitive enough. No way I'm throwing a $9,000 rifle and scope through a concrete culvert just to improve my time by 1 second.
Man, you wouldn't catch me throwin' any of my guns!
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I like the US Optics. Had a SN3 3.8-22 but traded it on NVG. I like that they are very custom built anyway you like it.
Since then, I've gone to mostly Schmidt and Bender PMIIs with some NF F1s on ARs
Anythime you get in the $3k range for a scope you get some real good stuff. I remember in one evolution in a competition we had to go over some obstacls and through a concrete culvert to get to position to make the shot and there was a guy with a GAP .260 bolt gun and a Hensholdt scope. SOB jumped over the obstacles and then threw the weapon through the culvert so he could get through the culvert faster and make the shot. It was a time/accuracy evolution. I just shook my head. That's when I knew I was not competitive enough. No way I'm throwing a $9,000 rifle and scope through a concrete culvert just to improve my time by 1 second.
S&B are also nice, but pricey.. Well to me they are.
GAP does amazing work according to the interwebz.
Live dangerously, go for the throw!
Man, you wouldn't catch me throwin' any of my guns!
Watched someone do it.
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I have two GA Precisions. A 308 and 300.
The first one is the 300 with a McMillan stock and the US Optics I had at the time. Its accurate too, about a 3/8-1/2 gun
The 308 with my handloads shoots a 5 shot 1/4 group at 100. Its absolutely scary. It was built by Moon and is a remy 700 with jewel trigger, McMillan stock, and a Bartlein 19 inch barrel threaded for my Thunderbeast 30-P1 suppressor. It has the S&B PMII on it and that thing is a sweet stick.
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^^^^ Crazy money right there!
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I have two GA Precisions. A 308 and 300.
The first one is the 300 with a McMillan stock and the US Optics I had at the time. Its accurate too, about a 3/8-1/2 gun
The 308 with my handloads shoots a 5 shot 1/4 group at 100. Its absolutely scary. It was built by Moon and is a remy 700 with jewel trigger, McMillan stock, and a Bartlein 19 inch barrel threaded for my Thunderbeast 30-P1 suppressor. It has the S&B PMII on it and that thing is a sweet stick.
I like the way you party Senor.
^^^^ Crazy money right there!
You were talking about upgrading your 300. Send it to GAP or a reputable builder and tune her up.
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Walmart don't carry nothin' like that. lol
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Makes my stuff look like a sling-shot! LOL! :o
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Wow, and I was pretty proud of my new Savage Model 16 308 with the Nikon Monarch lol
Nice rifles TRN
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US Optics.... I like that they are very custom built anyway you like it.
I think it'd be fun to go to the factory and watch them build a scope you spec out from start to finish.
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You know the funny thing....I kill more animals with my bone stock Remington 700 Alaskan titanium and Lupy 3-9 than anything else I have. It weighs only about 6.5lbs without the little scope and you can hump all day through the brush and woods with it. I did have fun on one hunt when I was laying prone with the 300WM and the guy I was with asked me if I could really hit a big bull nilgai at 515 yards. So I sent it....head shot at 515. Kinda messed up the mount but all I had with me were SMKs190s and they don't expand.
GAPs are worth every penny but a 14lb rife is not fun to hump in the woods with. I would like to have them build a hunting rifle but there is a company here in Houston called MG Ultralight Arms that is hard to beat when it comes to that stuff. They've done some work for me in the past but I've not had them build a full rifle. A friends has 2 sheep rifles in 300WSM that weigh 7lbs. That must be a big kick with no brake and being that light.
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Have you had any experience with the Genwerks rifles? I watch some hunting shows occasionally, and i think the Long Range Pursuit crew shoots Gunwerks, and I'm pretty sure Steven Rinella of MeatEater does too
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Negative. There are more than a few good builders. I tend to be loyal to companies that have good products and good service. GAP also has a rabid loyal following which makes resale strong. Not that I would ever sell one.
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Finally got some range time in today with the new gong.
Here's the 1000 yard setup again....the gong is at the end of the road/wash:
(http://i.imgur.com/Asf6MOD.jpg)
Found some shade:
(http://i.imgur.com/TGnqpLe.jpg)
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My brother's Rem 7mm taking a turn:
(http://i.imgur.com/ndHFwiJ.jpg)
Looking through his Zeiss scope:
(http://i.imgur.com/KINeyYK.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/FdkGhUS.jpg)
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I'd love to easy access to a 1000yard range. I have a 600 close by but 1000 is a 5 hour drive.
There is a 1000 yard about 35 miles from here but they don't allow steel. Rubbish!
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The plate held up well...
We had some interesting splatter patterns. We were both shooting polymer tipped ammo. His 165gr. Mine 180.
The 2 larger hits at the top were from the 7mm at 3000fps. (He also hit the upper right "bullet cutter" and it worked as planned). The 3 lower, smaller splatter patterns were from my Weatherby 300 mag, at 3150fps, and the lower right single was from my buddy's 308 with standard soft nose ammo...weird.
(http://i.imgur.com/522cpQK.jpg)
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I'd love to easy access to a 1000yard range. I have a 600 close by but 1000 is a 5 hour drive.
There is a 1000 yard about 35 miles from here but they don't allow steel. Rubbish!
I appreciate what I have, but fear it won't last. If /when the property owners decide to develop the mountain range (which is what they intended to do before the crash) my buddy will lose his ranching lease, and my access.
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Here's what the leg bullet cutter did. I assume that I wasn't perpendicular to the target....or the crosswinds ....or....
(http://i.imgur.com/H03MxSe.jpg)
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Here's my daughter taking a few shots with the 300, with quite the grin on her face (I probably had one as well). Before this she was slinging a 357, then my 44mag (with "special" rounds....I didn't want to break her little wrists!) After this, my brother brought out an old 8mm with iron sights. By this time the winds were playing havoc, throwing the shots all over the place with that gun.....yet she came the closest, missing by under 4 inches to the right, center mass. The closest me and my bro got was about 2 feet!
(http://i.imgur.com/N2zwU1l.jpg)
...the 8mm, with a very handsome, intelligent, and super young guy spottin' for her:
(http://i.imgur.com/mIp3eeI.jpg)
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Looks like a fun time was had by all.
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What kind of hold over and wind correction were you using with the .300WM?
My fav .30 round!
How about that .308? Bet he was having to work that gun a bit!
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Looking through his Zeiss scope:
How tall's the silhouette?
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Haha Don. Yeah he would shoot, I would run to town for breakfast, come back, and still have time to spot the shot! I can only appreciate our guys even more after seeing what it takes to put a 308 on target at that range....you have to be really good. The wind was affecting him a bunch...like throwing the shots off 2 feet, where as our magnums were moving around about 6 inches.
Holdover on my 300 was 17.5 mils, zeroed at 200, equals a drop of about 18 feet.
Wind correction after 3 misses was 1-2 mils left
Bobby, I think it's exactly 24" iirc
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Haha Don. Yeah he would shoot, I would run to town for breakfast, come back, and still have time to spot the shot! I can only appreciate our guys even more after seeing what it takes to put a 308 on target at that range....you have to be really good. The wind was affecting him a bunch...like throwing the shots off 2 feet, where as our magnums were moving around about 6 inches.
Holdover on my 300 was 17.5 mils, zeroed at 200, equals a drop of about 18 feet.
Wind correction after 3 misses was 1-2 mils left
Bobby, I think it's exactly 24" iirc
That would explain the preference of Snipers for the 300WM for Long Distance Calls and the .308 for Local Calls? :o
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I'm waiting for TRN to start defending his fancy $300,000,000.00 .308 . I can hear it now, "blahblahblah" ...lol
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Na, I have and shoot both. If all I was doing was sending rounds downrange at 900-1500 I would exclusively use the 300 with 190SMK and 71.6gns of RE22. Its just a lot of weapon to shoot in a run and gun UKD engagement.
My little 308 with a 19.5 barrel is lighter, more compact, maneverable and I can shoot it all day without getting the yips. And follow up shots are quicker too. Out to 700, I'll take it over the 300 any day.
And you are correct. The wind is the real challenge. Distance is easy. Just dial it and send it. The wind read is what makes a great marksman.
The difference between mine is about 5 ft of vertical drop and about 20 inches of wind deflection for a full value 10mph wind at 1000yards.
Here the the modelling out of my ballistics program, which is pretty close to the real world dope in my log books.
And keep in mind, the 308 only has a 20 inch barrel so with a 24 inch barrel it would be a bit closer.
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Oh and consider this. Any good repeatable 1MOA gun is suitable for long range engagements. Accuracy is like horsepower. It take a lot of money to gain a little accuracy. Consider my 308 at a 1/4 gun vs an out of the box 1 moa gun is 7.5 inches at 1000.
Like most wanna bees, I have more weapon than skills for sure. My gun out shoots me all day long.
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All I know is that it's super fun. I wish I had more time to do it. They say there's nothing that can substitute trigger time, and I proved that this weekend. It took me a few rounds to get back in to the swing of things.
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My gun out shoots me all day long.
Sell it, you don't need that kind of negativity in your life.....
JK. ;D
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Na, I have and shoot both. If all I was doing was sending rounds downrange at 900-1500 I would exclusively use the 300 with 190SMK and 71.6gns of RE22.
I don't have a 300WM so I haven't had the chance to try them in such a rifle, but the Berger 230gr Match Hybrid bullet is supposed to be pretty dang impressive, and is even better ballistically than all but the heaviest .338 bullets (300+ gr). Bryan Litz has a good bit of documentation on it in one of his books.
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I probably need to expand my recipie collection. I tend to find one that works and then spend a lot of time learning the dope and practicing. 190SMKs in my recipie really closely approximate the FGMM 190s, which means that I can pick up factory ammo and not have completely different dope.
Why I went with the 155 scenars in the 308 is a completely different story without an explanation. They don't approximate anything.
I tend to think too practically at times. I don't mind getting beat by guys running AW 243s all hopped up because they aren't "real life" rounds. Thats why I like 308 specific matches. Everyone on even footing using real world rounds.
Its really more about practicing your craft than it is the equipment
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My gun out shoots me all day long.
Sell it, you don't need that kind of negativity in your life.....
Maybe I'd get better Karma donating it....
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I have a lonely spot in the safe for the orphan in question.......
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I'm a 155 Scenar fan as well, been shooting is for a while not. Can get them going pretty fast, and recoil is light, plus I have a Lapua distributor close as well.