REAL MAN TRUCKWORKS & SURVIVAL
WEAPONS => Firearms => Topic started by: KensAuto on August 24, 2016, 11:43:03 PM
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I started off by purchasing a few 80% lowers, before they become non-existent, a couple being 308, and a few AR 15s versions. They were supposed to sit in the safe collecting dust, but then I realized that I needed a 308 to go with the 556s.
So, here's a billet 308 (top) and a forged 5.56, both in 7075 aluminum.
(http://i.imgur.com/Hs2j9th.jpg)
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I purchased the jigs from the same company, 80% arms.
For those that don't know what an 80% lower is, it's one that hasn't had the trigger pocket milled out, nor the safety and trigger pin holes drilled. Until these milling operations are completed, it's not considered a firearm by the atf, and as long as you complete the work yourself, it doesn't have to have a serial number and doesn't have to be registered. (this may change shortly with the upcoming election).
That being said, you aren't allowed (legally) to sell or give it away, and it counts as one of the homemade firearms that you can build per year.
Here's some of the different jig pieces:
(http://i.imgur.com/n2eanWO.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/YCyHq9u.jpg)
This one is used to drill out a large portion of material before hitting it with a router (it's a bunch of Very Hard material...harder than mild steel):
(http://i.imgur.com/C1cU1nf.jpg)
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I won't bore you with all of the details, but here's the basics:
First set the drill bit to the proper length and tighten collet, and make sure it doesn't come loose!
(http://i.imgur.com/DQ8vg3V.jpg)
I didn't have to drill out the rear pocket, so those 2 holes in the template were taped over.
...All 7 holes drilled in the trigger pocket:
(http://i.imgur.com/o3s5ncY.jpg)
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I used a trim router (like they suggest) to start the process, and it's not fun, only going about 1/16" deep at a time:
(http://i.imgur.com/Va6W7rt.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/LQ7S2R8.jpg)
After a couple hours of vibrating your hands to pieces, you end up with this:
(http://i.imgur.com/3H6O6qm.jpg)
In that pick, I had already turned it on it's side and drilled the safety and trigger pin holes. There's also a template for cutting the trigger hole in the bottom of the pocket (also with a router)
(http://i.imgur.com/OspUqw3.jpg)
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Dumb question, ;D you own a flipping mill! Why did you use a router?
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I cleaned it up on the mill, but I was trying not to destroy the templates (MADE for a router) on the very first one. I have since done most of the work on a couple 556s on the mill. I feel more experienced now. lol
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After some sandblasting and cleaning, it went in the oven, along with a 556 version, to prepare for Cerakote:
(http://i.imgur.com/7BYHM6L.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/hzQBl1I.jpg)
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Nice job.
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I cleaned it up on the mill, but I was trying not to destroy the templates (MADE for a router) on the very first one. I have since done most of the work on a couple 556s on the mill. I feel more experienced now. lol
Copy, nice work there Ken!
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Ken,
How about the non forged lowers, are they even worth messing with?
Anderson Arms, being one town over would/might be a good source for the unfinished receivers, but I don't think they are forged.
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Ken,
How about the non forged lowers, are they even worth messing with?
Anderson Arms, being one town over would/might be a good source for the unfinished receivers, but I don't think they are forged.
Unless I'm mistake Anderson Arms lowers are forged.
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When it comes to lowers, billet is the best, starting out as a solid chunk of aluminum. When they say forged, it's not what you think...that's why they're cheaper.
...forgot to add the "winkwink"
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Here's where I "cheated" a little. Instead of building an upper (I have zero experience with this) I purchased one complete. This one came from a local shop, Veriforce Tactical, and it consists of a dpms upper, a Ballistic Advantage barrel in 1:10 twist, melonite coated, with something they call a "Tank Brake" which looks super loud, and of course a nitride BCG. They also test fire when done.
(http://i.imgur.com/R9NIMPe.jpg)
I also purchased the skeleton stock (Guntec), small parts kit (guntec), and vise block from them. Note: the trigger is absolutely horrible .
(http://i.imgur.com/ZR9Ka53.jpg)
here's the lower assembled:
(http://i.imgur.com/SZTlODj.jpg)
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I had issues with how the grip fit in the beavertail area, so I took a heat gun to it to form it better.
...before:
(http://i.imgur.com/E48zH5E.jpg)
...after:
(http://i.imgur.com/WCsLSZs.jpg)
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Next up the buffer tube/stock with ambi sling mount...also painted to match in FDE:
(http://i.imgur.com/vgEcieD.jpg)
Then I changed out the charging handle catch to an extended version:
(http://i.imgur.com/vxixALq.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/VbAfAAh.jpg)
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I ran a "Tac-Latch" on my real combat gun in the Stan
Big woolly aviator gloves in the winter...
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...and here it is completed to that point:
(http://i.imgur.com/BfrlU9x.jpg)
I found these keymod plugs, to keep from burning my fragile/delicate hands, in desert tan. Only time will tell if they last or start popping out like popcorn!
(http://i.imgur.com/V7C6m6u.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/0TJfcfN.jpg)
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I had issues with how the grip fit in the beavertail area, so I took a heat gun to it to form it better.
...before:
(http://i.imgur.com/E48zH5E.jpg)
...after:
(http://i.imgur.com/WCsLSZs.jpg)
If I recall my grip was really tight going on too, but I just used a vice to force it on.... ;D
Editted by yours truly. :)
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Some more goodies came in yesterday, like this nice padded sling from Troy:
(http://i.imgur.com/xNM48WE.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/cXgnUu6.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/OTb46Jg.jpg)
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....an over the rail sling mount and qd swivel:
(http://i.imgur.com/W2ioydK.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/kalWUXx.jpg)
..and a no frills bipod:
(http://i.imgur.com/UDUGV4g.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/7aquhPG.jpg)
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I needed to tighten up the upper-to-lower slop so I installed one of these wedges under the rear take down pin:
(http://i.imgur.com/aNrYnOC.jpg)
Then came a cheapo qd scope mount:
(http://i.imgur.com/V5DfYHG.jpg)
...to go with a mid range scope. I didn't want to go balls out on a scope until I see what this gun is capable of as far as distance/accuracy. If it works out, and allows me to shoot 6-800yrds, I might throw my Trijicon on it from the 300 weatherby, and get a Nightforce for it since the Trigi is about maxxed out at 1000 yrds, at 20x power. The 300 can go much further, I think.
(http://i.imgur.com/n3DFeE2.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/tnDcL0I.jpg)
...getting it level:
(http://i.imgur.com/XCHkDPi.jpg)
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The sling attached. Troy builds their slings wide on the top...1.5", so my latched hook wouldn't fit, and it would be to noisy, so i went old school and wrapped around the buffer tube:
(http://i.imgur.com/YbCdEdk.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/l3prgTZ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/PVIKJtG.jpg)
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Here's the obnoxious brake;
(http://i.imgur.com/83xAHzl.jpg)
...and more stuff like a new soft case that holds (in theory) 3 long guns...up to 42":
(http://i.imgur.com/a21fsy5.jpg)
...and finally, a box of mags, both steel and plastic, to see which ones work best:
(http://i.imgur.com/igABojd.jpg)
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I had issues with how the grip fit in the beavertail area, so I took a heat gun to it to form it better.
...before:
(http://i.imgur.com/E48zH5E.jpg)
...after:
(http://i.imgur.com/WCsLSZs.jpg)
If I recall my grip was really tight going on too, but I just used a vice to force it on.... ;D
Editted by yours truly. :)
Only an H supporter would think using a vice to manipulate a gun build would be ok..... ::)
Btw, why would a weenie who uses a heat gun to assemble his rifle buy a 3 gun case? You already know you're too old to be toting that many around at once..... ;D
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I found these keymod plugs, to keep from burning my fragile/delicate hands, in desert tan.
Gloves, or embrace the burn!
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You guys are harsh!
Shawny, the case has a nifty shooting mat inside that will protect the ONE gun that will reside there. :P
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Hey, I think I figured out why Ken uses all those fancy coatings on his gun builds.
You know at first I thought maybe he was just one of those pretty boys you see at the gun range and he wanted to look GQ with his firearms. Hey it's not my thing but maybe for some guys depending on how they lean?!?
So I thought no that can't be right, somewhere I saw a pic floating around and I couldn't for the life of me see anyone thinking ol Ken & pretty in the same sentence. However, there are a lot of crazy out west here....
Then I was thinking maybe he's worried about them guns a rusting away. Wait, nope he lives in the desert. Rust shouldn't be an issue.
Finally, I was driving near hippy land & saw a Hillary bumper sticker & said I Got It! It all fell into place with the bumper sticker. When his fav girl H comes for a visit I bet he buries those guns in the desert & wants to make sure they don't get all scratched up.
Now see with the bumper sticker that's what you call "coming full circle"! 8)
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:(
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Sorry Ken, but on the bright side you do build really nice firearms! :)
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Shawn, 1 Ken 0, LOL
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Got the bipod mounted and took her for a spin:
(http://i.imgur.com/voJAkNd.jpg)
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...and it didn't want to run......missing on a few cylinders. It would hit on the first round, then lightly punch the next primer. I tore it down and found the buffer was smacking the buffer retainer. It's not supposed to even touch the retainer unless the upper is removed, because it's only function is to hold the spring/buffer in place during teardown. I believe the lower was not milled correctly, or the bcg is not far enough back, but not sure. I've read where it can cause bolt bounce if the buffer doesn't keep pressure on the bolt at the end of travel, which will cause a light pin strike.
I decided to just mill an offset buffer retainer pin from a grade5 1/4" bolt. The hardest part was drilling out the inside to except a spring.
...buffer slightly dinged after only 20 rounds:
(http://i.imgur.com/utexfwe.jpg)
..bent buffer retainer:
(http://i.imgur.com/eHIA0eX.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/pW8nocg.jpg)
...offset retainer:
(http://i.imgur.com/3OeoUaz.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/gZfmBCg.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/bYykQO8.jpg)
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Now the buffer sticks out quite a bit, and I was able to screw the buffer tube in farther than before (hopefully that will keep the bcg from contacting the threads shown in the one pic).
One of the trigger pins also walked out and the gun did a multi burst, which kinda freaked me out. hopefully next time it will go better, especially when I get the Timney trigger installed.
(http://i.imgur.com/wyJFgyT.jpg)
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So when you say you don't think the lower was milled correctly you believe the buffer retaining pin position was incorrect?
I will reiterate this & maybe I'm way off but "all" of my problems rose from the system being over gassed.
http://heavybuffers.com/ar10carbine.html I spoke with this guy when building mine & used his parts from the start. He came highly recommended. I would give him a call & tell him what's going on, pick his brain.
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Yeah. But you know my experience level with these.....just been reading a bunch and I guess it does happen from time to time.
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I just updated my prior post Ken.
Also my pins are very tight & the upper & lower were a matched set from the machine shop.
Here's an offer too, i could tear down one of mine tomorrow & get you location measurements if needed?
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Gotcha. I did take care of a significant issue....that buffer should never touch the pin whether overgassed or not... just don't know if it was the only/right issue. I think I need to shoot it again before asking for help.
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Copy, let me know if you need any measurements. Wouldn't take me long, I know it's not the kind of offer you're accustomed to :o but however I can help....... ;D
Ain't ar-10 builds fun?!?
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Gun measurements right? lol
You know, I was quite happy with the grouping on this gun at 100, when it actually went bang a few times.
I guess that's what I get for trying to do something myself and mismatching parts. :(
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Don't be trying to sidetrack the hippy here, I was talking about the measurements for the AR-10 ;D
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Must resist looking at these builds. I do not need an AR10, repeat, I DO NOT NEED AN AR10.
From my reading many of the AR10s are diff from other in specs. Not Mil-spec like a 556 AR. I would look at the BCG since that would keep the buffer off the pin.
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Must resist looking at these builds. I do not need an AR10, repeat, I DO NOT NEED AN AR10.
From my reading many of the AR10s are diff from other in specs. Not Mil-spec like a 556 AR. I would look at the BCG since that would keep the buffer off the pin.
JR, but everyone needs an ar-10..... ;)
& you may be on to something, if that bcg was ever so much shorter then the same thing could happen.
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Agree^^^ but the fact that it was taking out threads from going too far rearwards also tells me there is/was an issue with the extension. It's also hard to find a set of measurements for these, because, like JR said, they're not all the same.
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Must resist looking at these builds. I do not need an AR10, repeat, I DO NOT NEED AN AR10.
From my reading many of the AR10s are diff from other in specs. Not Mil-spec like a 556 AR. I would look at the BCG since that would keep the buffer off the pin.
I was feeling the pull...Right up until the moment I laid my hands on my Sig-Sauer 716!!!
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I admit, buying a ruger was ALOT easier & more cost efficient than building my ar-10......
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Hey Shawn, can you tell me if your bcg is flush with the back of the upper. Mine is actually recessed. I checked a couple of my ar 15s and they are about perfectly flush. Hmm...might not be the lower after all.
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(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160830/23c13acc91330cc2e08cb9bdd8d1e88b.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160830/a468fe43579dd2e6c163211ebad306f4.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160830/9496c4a51fd7e762d8af5fb0beb32ec1.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160830/cf11d2b44e8376d45629f2b42bc19804.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Ken, I'll text you a couple pics first thing in morning. Headed out to DIA to get my wife in a min. Long story short, bcg is flush with back of upper. The buffer sticks out or towards the barrel (when upper is off) around a 1/16 from the barrel side of the lower buffer tube mount. This was on my Ruger 762 as it was easiest to get to & check (my ar-10) was built off the same upper & lower receiver, came from same machine shop that makes them for ruger. So it "should" be the same.....
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Thanks guys, guess I'm calling those guys today, maybe after I practice some yoga.
Charles, is your buffer getting chewed up a little in that pic...kinda hard to tell from this angle.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
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The BCG should hold the buffer off the pin, something isn't right. You could just remove the pin, but it doesn't address the issue.
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Ken, check your phone. Sent over pics a little while ago.
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Here's a pic of Shawn's rifle, and it look's pretty flush as well....
(http://i.imgur.com/q4Ny5xy.jpg)
...and mine. It's not quite as bad as I thought, but still, it's recessed about .025":
(http://i.imgur.com/Fk42IpV.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/denapSR.jpg)
So it might be that both the upper, and lower (buffer pin location) are off just enough. I think I'll just make a different pin with a little less offset than the last one.
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Ken no real wear on buffer
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So if I was to buy something already to shoot, What brand should I be looking at. I like the .308 platform, sends enough down range to do a good job. And, I already have lots of matched brass and dies to work with.
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Bob, I've never shot the Sig or Ruger but both have good reputation.
Some are more spendy than others. I would personally like to buy a Larue next if not a full custom from GA Precision. Neither are cheap. Both come with accuracy guarantees
AR-10-Manufacturers-List
ArmaLite
Bushmaster
Colt Firearms
DPMS
DRD Tactical
Fulton Armory
GA Precision
Knights Armament
Larue Tactical
Lewis Machine and Tool
Luvo
LWRC
Mega Arms
Patriot Ordnance Factory
Remington Arms
Rock River Arms
Ruger
Sig Sauer
SOTA Arms (they call the uppers “AR-15 7.62mm”, but really they AR-10 variants).
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I didn't realize there where that many! and yet you can't find ANY useful specs on them....
So, made a new retainer today, one that had less of an offset...like .025". Also did some mag release work (that was the other issue, the bolt not staying back), and ran out to my "private" shooting area after work. She ran....most of the time....40 rounds total. I think (hope) a quality buffer will finish it off.
This is the cul-de-sac for shorter shooting, up to 200 yards.
(http://i.imgur.com/qBChMTS.jpg)
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If I was to buy another (and I don't do long distance shooting) so for a defensive rifle I would look at the DPMS units. For the money I think you get a lot of rifle plus last time I checked I think they have 5 or 6 different models (meaning different variations to their receivers). When I was building mine & speaking to Midwest industries on the hand guards they were the ones who told me that was the case then which was a couple years back. Bobby a while back was commenting on their rifles in .308 on another thread as well.
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Bob, I've never shot the Sig or Ruger but both have good reputation.
Some are more spendy than others. I would personally like to buy a Larue next if not a full custom from GA Precision. Neither are cheap. Both come with accuracy guarantees
AR-10-Manufacturers-List
ArmaLite
Bushmaster
Colt Firearms
DPMS
DRD Tactical
Fulton Armory
GA Precision
Knights Armament
Larue Tactical
Lewis Machine and Tool
Luvo
LWRC
Mega Arms
Patriot Ordnance Factory
Remington Arms
Rock River Arms
Ruger
Sig Sauer
SOTA Arms (they call the uppers “AR-15 7.62mm”, but really they AR-10 variants).
So many to choose from. I guess I need to look around and see what is out there local. I don't have any "black guns" right now. I had a 30 carbine but sold it as it didn't look like the cartridge was what I thought I needed. I don't want/need close encounter.
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Got this in the mail today. Still waiting on the new buffer and spring that stlaser recommended.
You ever feel like you're trying to polish a turd? That's what it feels like with this gun.
(http://i.imgur.com/gzI7QLa.jpg)
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Once you get it running "right" it will no longer feel that way.....
Edit: & for the record you set yourself up for a good H joke but I held my tongue ;D
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So if I was to buy something already to shoot, What brand should I be looking at. I like the .308 platform, sends enough down range to do a good job. And, I already have lots of matched brass and dies to work with.
Depends on what your budget is. I happen to like the DPMS rifles, just based on what I've seen in the gunstores.
http://www.dpmsinc.com/308-WIN-762-NATO-16-18_ep_190-1.html
I personally like the SASS and MK12 for precision style work. If you wanted something along the lines of Chief's 716, you can roll deep with the Recon, and still keep the precision role. But if you just want something to take to the range or throw in the truck, the AP4 isn't a bad choice either.
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The new buffer and spring showed up in the mail yesterday. I got it from HeavyBuffers.com, the place Shawn recommended: http://www.heavybuffers.com/
I went with the heavy one...6.5 oz...which will allow me to suppress if I choose to someday.
This is what the owner says about it:
I strongly recommend this buffer if any of the following conditions apply:
•If you will be shooting with a suppressor. (Your gun will still run fine unsuppressed with standard ammunition.)
•If you will be shooting hot handloads or very heavy bullets.
•If you want maximum recoil reduction.
I'm not sure what the guys at Veriforce Tactical were thinking when they sold me these parts originally...the upper was not in spec and the buffer was less than 4 oz. From what I've read, you need at least 5oz in a 308....hmm, maybe that's why it kicked like a mule and didn't cycle right!
...old one:
(http://i.imgur.com/3nFUjZ1.jpg)
and the new stainless one which also has a piece of tungsten inside:
(http://i.imgur.com/qnzZm7w.jpg)
I put the new trigger in and took it out for a test.
And finally....it shoots great, story closed.
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They sold you what they had on the shelf.
Hope this cleans it up.