Post by: Nate on August 01, 2019, 10:24:15 PM
no police force in America has any need for military equipment......PEROID!!!!!
Post by: wyorunner on August 01, 2019, 11:59:33 PM
Post by: cj7ox on August 02, 2019, 12:18:16 AM
And yet most sheriffs departments have them! Does that one have an RPG type net on the side? You know what we had in Iraq and Afghanistan, the weird wire that was intended to detonate RPGs before hitting the hull... or so that’s what I thought they did.
That looks to me like a vertical sheet of expanded metal. At the base, it looks like a flip down platform. My thinking is that is for a SWAT team to ride on the outside of the vehicle for rapid deployment. The expanded metal sheet is there to keep the "shooters" from falling into the tires and becoming mush. I could be wrong, though.
Post by: Flyin6 on August 02, 2019, 08:14:42 AM
I don't think so Sean.And yet most sheriffs departments have them! Does that one have an RPG type net on the side? You know what we had in Iraq and Afghanistan, the weird wire that was intended to detonate RPGs before hitting the hull... or so that’s what I thought they did.
That looks to me like a vertical sheet of expanded metal. At the base, it looks like a flip down platform. My thinking is that is for a SWAT team to ride on the outside of the vehicle for rapid deployment. The expanded metal sheet is there to keep the "shooters" from falling into the tires and becoming mush. I could be wrong, though.
I remember those MRAPS very well, and like T said, that looks like the steel wire or bar grid that adorned the outsides of the vehicles to detonate RPG's
Edit: Looking at it closely it does look more like expanded metal and that may well be used as a platform, folded down, but would also initiate detonation of a HEAT round (High Explosive anti-tank)
Now, I wonder why I didn't have that stuff all over my helicopter??? (Yikes!)
As for the police having Mraps, yea, I'm on the fence with that. I do not want to see a well armed military deployed within our borders other than the standing Army/DOD. On the other hand police officers are our on the scene warriors. The Obama administration allowed for the importation of terrorists right into our lands. There are certain questionable training camps which are patrolled by "Americans" carrying AK-47's. Oddly enough they look like hajiis and wear traditional Arab garb. Now I wouldn't mind the sheriff of that county having a few M1 Abrams tanks with a lot of flechette rounds.
Obama wanted a Waffen SS police force that was loyal to him. I'm sure the "Dreamers" on his staff pined for the day when in his third or forth term he dissolved the constitution and took over with that well equipped "Police" force.
When things are right, I want our police to be better armed and equipped than terrorist cells that may be living well (In minneapolis and Flint and Dearborn, maybe other places) And lets not forget the cartels who have purchased fighter planes, built submarines, and recruit some darned good ex-military folks to get their job done. I'd like to outgun those folks.
Post by: cj7ox on August 03, 2019, 04:43:00 AM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 03, 2019, 09:25:06 AM
Post by: stlaser on August 03, 2019, 09:38:45 AM
If they want to have weapons of war then I say let the state patrol have them using them in limited capacity. To me that would be a great trade off as you have double oversight of its use. Make the small town sheriff or county sheriffs plead their case. Most small towns do not need this equipment on a normal basis, more than one way to skin a cat as far as real police work.
Post by: Flyin6 on August 03, 2019, 09:57:29 AM
Well, one thing for sure is this ^^^^^ along with no knock 3 am raids on incorrect homes isn’t helping their public relations any......Great topic and good discussion points, S
If they want to have weapons of war then I say let the state patrol have them using them in limited capacity. To me that would be a great trade off as you have double oversight of its use. Make the small town sheriff or county sheriffs plead their case. Most small towns do not need this equipment on a normal basis, more than one way to skin a cat as far as real police work.
So here is why I say the Sheriff should have the authority. Its because he already does! The county Sheriff is the single constitutional enforcement authority in that area. Not the State police. Although they may seem like a better resourced, more standardized force, The Sheriff deputies derive their power directly from the constitution. He can overrule just about anybody.
For example our Sheriff here has openly stated he would not enforce any federal gun control or registration law. He sees such a law being in violation of the 2nd amendment. Therefore if the federal government would enact such a law, according to his interpretation of the constitution, it would not be be "Lawful."
We elect the Sheriff. We do not elect the State police leadership. They are all (political??) appointees of the governor.
I personally would want someone close by making the calls and not someone taking orders from who knows who at the state or federal levels...
Post by: stlaser on August 03, 2019, 11:55:51 AM
On the other hand I’ve known more pos town chief of police than I knew good ones. Again why I think there needs to be more than one guy signing off on the use of this type of equipment and missions.
My personal interactions with local law enforcement have not been overly positive as of late and I used to donate my time with them at events etc promoting them. They changed chiefs and it has been a downward spiral last couple of years. This is unfortunate as with all things a couple bad apples or poor leadership in this case ruin it for all.
Post by: KensAuto on August 03, 2019, 01:28:50 PM
Why are we worried about a defensive vehicle like an mrap? It's not an Abrams. Doesn't bother me one bit.
I think the fact that they can carry full autos, and we for the most part can't, is more worry some. ..and that doesn't bother me either.
Post by: stlaser on August 03, 2019, 02:39:54 PM
What's wrong Shawn, afraid your Jeep won't outrun a pig like an mrap?
Why are we worried about a defensive vehicle like an mrap? It's not an Abrams. Doesn't bother me one bit.
I think the fact that they can carry full autos, and we for the most part can't, is more worry some. ..and that doesn't bother me either.
Why would I be worried about that heavy pig? Recall Dorner manhunt? Not worried about full auto either. Many of those boys can’t hit broad side of a barn when they think lead is flying both ways
Thinking you see an H capable transportation when you look at em..... :tongue:
Post by: TexasRedNeck on August 04, 2019, 12:03:58 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Flyin6 on August 04, 2019, 09:18:17 AM
I think that brings into play the need for civilians to provide a check to government power. We may need to up our weapons capabilities as a counterbalanceConcur
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Responsible citizens with weapons are a great balance. Make the prospect of being invaded much darker for potential enemies.
Would the cartels be so emboldened if the ranchers along the Arizona border were a part of a local battle tank club???
Post by: cj7ox on August 05, 2019, 04:45:35 AM
... local battle tank club???
As a CDAT, I endorse this idea! Now, I need to win the powerball so I can afford a purchase of this magnitude. I've always wanted a tank, ever since the movie with James Garner in the '80s! :cool:
Post by: BobbyB on August 05, 2019, 04:44:08 PM
afraid your Jeep won't outrun a pig like an mrap?
It probably could easily.
Not worried about full auto either. Many of those boys can’t hit broad side of a barn when they think lead is flying both ways
I had a response but I decided not to.
I've always wanted a tank, ever since the movie with James Garner in the '80s! :cool:
Twas a great movie.
Post by: Flyin6 on August 05, 2019, 05:26:26 PM
Man, me too!... local battle tank club???
As a CDAT, I endorse this idea! Now, I need to win the powerball so I can afford a purchase of this magnitude. I've always wanted a tank, ever since the movie with James Garner in the '80s! :cool:
I loved that M60A1/A3
I could work on it, tune the engine. With the governor control removed they could easily hit 40 mph
But
most importantly
I know all about how to fix the heaters!
Post by: cj7ox on August 06, 2019, 07:12:19 AM
I loved that M60A1/A3
I could work on it, tune the engine. With the governor control removed they could easily hit 40 mph
But
most importantly
I know all about how to fix the heaters!
The M1, ungoverned, will hit 90mph before the track pads start flying off. :wink:
Post by: TexasRedNeck on August 06, 2019, 07:51:41 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Nate on August 06, 2019, 08:46:08 AM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 06, 2019, 12:15:06 PM
Thus the sport of guntube jousting remained a well practiced activity! ;-)
Post by: JR on August 06, 2019, 03:12:35 PM
Great for rescue and blockaded suspects.
Local city agencies had what were really armored up SUVs.
Gov planet has em all the time, they go fast!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on August 06, 2019, 05:54:06 PM
If I can pull it off I may have a bunch to sell off at my cost.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Post by: JR on August 06, 2019, 06:01:48 PM
Post by: TexasRedNeck on August 06, 2019, 06:15:27 PM
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Post by: dave945 on August 06, 2019, 08:17:40 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: JR on August 06, 2019, 08:33:06 PM
Never enough 556 brass and rounds are cheap.
Post by: KensAuto on August 06, 2019, 09:52:55 PM
Post by: cj7ox on August 07, 2019, 05:58:53 AM
Yeah but how does it handle at that speed??I've never got above 50mph, but I did that cross country, and it was smooth as glass. The suspension is amazing. Faster you go, the smoother the ride. Steering responds like a sportscar, if a sportscar could pivot steer. LOL!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Nate on August 08, 2019, 05:53:04 PM
In my opinion, the national guard should be the only entity outside of the active/reserve duty forces of the federal military to have and operate/deploy such equipment.
I also believe that city police / sheriffs department / state police should be cross trained on such equipment to ASSIST if and when needed.
Post by: JR on August 08, 2019, 07:03:09 PM
Post by: Nate on August 08, 2019, 07:38:27 PM
Please help me understand it from your experience
Post by: JR on August 08, 2019, 09:51:30 PM
People are pinned down, how do you get to them or a wounded person out?
You can't sit back 1/2 mile away and wait if someone is shooting, you have to deal with it. Now we can wait them out, common practice unless lives are at risk.
NG or miltary would need a special directive to allow use of local law enforcement the equip and Posse Comitatus comes to mind also. They could be hours away too.
We are not talking an armed vehicle, just protection. Even combat max and suburbans don't offer any ballistic protection.
All LEO want to go home at night, job one. If we get hurt, the problem gets worse.