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Online TexasRedNeck

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #450 on: December 23, 2017, 11:49:39 PM »
It would have to be a low slope and some torrential wind driven rain, but hey they call for it so I'm gonna do it.
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Offline stlaser

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #451 on: December 24, 2017, 12:08:29 AM »
I like the look of the shear attachment, how well did it work?
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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #452 on: December 24, 2017, 08:35:29 AM »
I like the look of the shear attachment, how well did it work?
Worked well. Worth the $60


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Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Online Jared Herzog

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #453 on: December 24, 2017, 08:48:26 AM »
Where the image above shows the tape it also seals the screw hole that is made between the metal sheets. If the butyl tape is put on the other edge the seam is sealed but the screw hole will leak.
The tape is a pain to use when doing the metal on your own as it will stick each piece together pretty good before you have a chance to adjust the panel. This is worsened with warm tape and hot panels.
I never understood why you needed tape until last year. It was shown to me that with the little lap, on r and u panel, and no center channel within the lap that wind can blow water up slightly into the seam. The wet has a propensity to roll back and slightly up anyway. Then capillary action continues the pull of water into the dry side. 
I have always had issues with valleys and wind. Around here we have straight line winds and storms with 60 mph gusts which are not uncommon. On my home we just finished the roof a few months ago. They now have expanding foam in rolls that will seal a valley. The material compresses to 1/16? and expands to 1?. Seals up the valley real nice. Years ago we always tried flashing and butyl tape and np1 with mixed results. I also used this expanding foam anywhere that had a gap that needed to be filled before flashing was bend to cover the opening.
Your outer edge looks great. Too many times people let it saw tooth. Yours is perfect. The fact you did that solo is very impressive with tape. Looks great.

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #454 on: December 24, 2017, 08:54:35 AM »
Thanks Jared.  You have a link to that foam stuff?

A trick to working with the tape is to leave the wax paper on it until the panel is in place and then put a screw in the panel to hold it in place and slightly lift the edge and pull the paper strip off.
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Online Jared Herzog

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Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #455 on: December 24, 2017, 09:44:47 AM »
Yes, that is how i do it but i will admit it took a few jobs before i started doing that. Let me see if i can find a link to what i use. I bought it at Montopolis supply in Austin TX.
Montopolis is a great company. It is in the center of Austin and heads explode while there. It is an old school company that has been there for decades. It has been swallowed by ultra liberal Austin. There is not a single wall without a sign with a religious saying or scripture quote. Even their receipts contain scripture quotes along with book chapter and verse. People have tried to get these items removed siting offense. They refused. Awesome. I will get some photos of what is left of mine.
http://www.montopolissupply.com/
« Last Edit: December 24, 2017, 09:46:00 AM by Jared Herzog »

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Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #456 on: December 24, 2017, 11:11:42 AM »
Here is the expanding foam i used. It is for valleys since no closure can be cost effective to manufacture for each metal type and valley pitch. The pitch changes the length and angle of the closure.
I also use it any place that needed a closure that did not match the profiles i bought. Worked well.
Butyl /seam tape
« Last Edit: December 24, 2017, 11:13:57 AM by Jared Herzog »

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #457 on: December 24, 2017, 08:54:39 PM »
Very cool. I might need to check that out. 

Today was a slow day. Bible study and I drove get a couple of rolls of butyl tape and installed flashing on the dormer walls and the porch. Finished the facia around the porch. Have to get some more outside closures.




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Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Offline Dawg25385

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #458 on: December 26, 2017, 08:24:02 AM »
Kyle what do you use it for?


Sharpening pencils, opening boxes, cleaning out notches, cutting off splinters, etc etc. it?s sharp as hell, but also has the strength of a chisel


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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #459 on: December 26, 2017, 09:57:40 AM »
Kyle what do you use it for?


Sharpening pencils, opening boxes, cleaning out notches, cutting off splinters, etc etc. it?s sharp as hell, but also has the strength of a chisel


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When I read your post, I looked up that knife thing and immediately went and ordered it.
I bought a new framing belt and just placed it in there. Question: Seems light to me, can you pound on the handle end to use like a chisel? Strong enough? Remember who it is you're talking with...Carrep...
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Offline stlaser

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #460 on: December 26, 2017, 10:44:54 AM »
Don, hammer of 2 ounces or less (thinking the ones that come in those cheapo women household type tool kits) in your case & you should be ok as long as you don?t leave I laying on ground & run over it. Don?t paint it tan & orange either as you?re apparently attracted to that color.

 :popcorn:
« Last Edit: December 26, 2017, 10:45:46 AM by stlaser »
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Offline Dawg25385

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #461 on: December 26, 2017, 11:15:23 AM »
Kyle what do you use it for?


Sharpening pencils, opening boxes, cleaning out notches, cutting off splinters, etc etc. it?s sharp as hell, but also has the strength of a chisel


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When I read your post, I looked up that knife thing and immediately went and ordered it.
I bought a new framing belt and just placed it in there. Question: Seems light to me, can you pound on the handle end to use like a chisel? Strong enough? Remember who it is you're talking with...Carrep...
I have yeah, its so sharp you won?t need to pound hard. You won?t want to pound and pry like you would a heavy chisel, but it?s a pretty well made little tool. You?ll see, it?s extremely sharp


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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #462 on: December 26, 2017, 03:49:40 PM »
I?m the cart on amazon.  Today I made another of what seems like endless trips to the metal building supply.  Bought outer and inner closures and some more screws and then a drip edge for the porch and more
Residential rake as I mis measured by 4 inches. Failing to account for overhang and trim at the rear. I could have pieced it together but I?d always know I screwed up every time I look at it.  So I ordered two new pieces. $30 mistake so it?s not the end of the world


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Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #463 on: January 06, 2018, 07:07:40 AM »
So got the additional metal pieces and got them installed on the porch.  Aside from a few small trim pieces that I'll need to install after the hardie goes up, I'm done with the roof.

Windows are in and I started foaming the gaps,  On the recommendation of a builder, I went to a place in Houston called the Door Clearance Center.  So busy its a zoo but good deals.  Probably saved $400 on two doors.

Got a pre hung fiberglass door and ordered a matching slab door so that I can replace the door on the main house to match the Casita.

door installed and ripped a shim for the strike side of the jamb that gives me a solid piece of wood shim between frame and studwall.  Will get a heavy duty striker plate and anchor 4-6 long screws in it.

Took the trailer back and put all new tires on it getting ready for a 4900lb load of hardie plank, which I ordered.  Hope to pick that up next week and get started on hardie.  Got my coil nailer ready and a case of nails, will see how I like that brand before getting some more.

Having trouble getting my 2 1/2 inch finish nailer running.  got some replacement seals but still having trouble.  If it won't run I'll probably just buy another one for the trim.

Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

Joshua 6:20-24

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #464 on: January 06, 2018, 09:37:11 AM »




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Offline stlaser

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #465 on: January 06, 2018, 10:48:23 AM »
 :likebutton:

Looking good, how many years until retirement?
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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #466 on: January 06, 2018, 11:19:25 AM »
who really knows, Shawn.  I have 2 girls, 12 and 14.  I may never see retirement.  My hope is 10-12 years, but retirement for me would just mean doing something different.  Small business or something until they kick dirt on me.  I can't stand not to be doing something.
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Offline stlaser

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #467 on: January 06, 2018, 12:11:53 PM »
who really knows, Shawn.  I have 2 girls, 12 and 14.  I may never see retirement.  My hope is 10-12 years, but retirement for me would just mean doing something different.  Small business or something until they kick dirt on me.  I can't stand not to be doing something.

I understand, after move to CO (hippy land) I had to reinvent myself a bit. It?s been a slow pace (conservative & trying hard to crawl before I walk to manage savings & investments) as it?s a whole different world here & how things work comparably. I am the same way though & will be doing something until I am no more. The slower pace has been a nice break & I see things picking up so trying to manage that as I don?t need nor want 18 hour days ever again.
Learn the rules like a pro so that you can break them like an artist -Pablo Picasso-

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #468 on: January 06, 2018, 08:58:37 PM »
Place looks great!

Being retired is nice. Got all my wife's perks for now and seem to have no free time unless I really just sit. That is never long as you start add ons and suburban projects.
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Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #469 on: January 14, 2018, 07:46:28 AM »
So yesterday I started tackling the hardie plank.

Last week I put 4 new tires on the trailer.  Got rid of the chinese paper thin junk and picked up 4 goodyear endurance "merica" made tires with road hazard certs at discount.  I feel much better about towing that thing around with decent tires on it. 


I wanted to buy from my local lumber yard where I had been buying all my big lumber purchases, but they just couldnt get within $300 of the box stores.  Interesting that the box stores where identical in price (to the penny) on hardi plank and the prices varied from the stores in Houston to the stores in the Piney Woods of East Texas with Houston prices being cheaper.  So before work on Friday I went to Lowe's and placed the order with the contractor desk and picked it up about 1:30.  They don't carry the Hardie Shingle, interestingly enough, so I will have to get that elsewhere.  The plan is to have a little architectural interest and transition to the shingle panels on the dormer above the main roof line. (bonus: those shingle panels are 48 inches and easier to handle, me thinks)


So I really need to get some trailer brakes put on the trailer.  With 4500 lbs of weight on the trailer I was not confident towing that in rush hour traffic with the OBS truck and their mediocre brakes, not to mention my hydroboost is leaking and probably not working as well as it should.  Add that to the list of innumerable things I need to get to.


Yesterday, I stared at the building and the pile of Hardie for what seemed like an eternity....or about a cup of coffee worth anyway.....

then I stared at it some more and realized to eat the elephant, you must take the first bite.  The big side with windows and the dormer is the most critical since the roof transition needs to be flashed with the hardie and I want to make sure its 100% right.  Since its the hardest, as we like to say, eat the frog.  Do the hard part first and the rest will be easy..

The foundation is 3 1/2x11 7/8 glue lam and to minimize the visual height, since the walls are already 12 ft, I clad the base in smooth 12 inch hardie soffit and will paint it dark brown to give the illusion of a foundation and break up the expanse of hardie.  Since the tyvek runs all the way down I caulked the bottom of the tyvek to seal it then attached the hardie.

The sheathing is 15/32 plywood so it hangs out over the foundation by that much and because I want the hardie to completely cover the gap between the subfloor and the hardie soffit on the foundation, I needed to double the kickout course at the bottom.  Since the planks are designed to overlap at an angle,the bottom course has to have a small ledger piece ripped to keep the angle on the bottom piece.  because of the sheathing and because I was over lapping the siding to the foundation, I was attaching the kickout ledger strip on the soffit piece on the foundation which was already recessed 1/2 from the sheathing surface, so I had to double it up to get the correct angle.

Then I pre built the corners of 3.5 inch trim by fastening them together with 2 inch 16ga finish nails then attached them to the building with 2 1/2 inch 16 ga finish nails.  this assures perfect alignment of the corner pieces.

Then starting at the bottom I broke the first course halfway (24 ft building and pieces are 12 ft) and then staggered the joints in a pattern of stud wall spacing.  0,4,7,2 so that the joints were somewhat random and not just a stair step.

Then came framing the windows.  It took some figuring but because of the way the frame of the window sits I can't put the hardie completely flush with the frame so I'll have about 3/16 to caulk.  Even then, because of the flange and flashing, I learned (by having to go back and shim after the fact) that I needed to shim the vertical pieces so they sit flat.  Fortunately I had a bunch of composite shims left and simply shimmed out until the pieces were parallel with the wall and hit them with the nailer. 

So between all the figuring and remembering how to get started, and rebuilding the porter cable finish nailer, and re-stringing my chalk box, it was probably 10am before I started hanging planks.

Bought these gecko gauges which really make working alone a lot easier and keeps the courses much more accurate.  Well worth every penny I paid for them.  They are adjustable to set the reveal anywhere between 4 and 8 inches and hold the plank in place so you can use both hands to adjust and nail as needed.



Interesting, as much as I liked the shears, I'm still trying to figure out the accuracy of them, so I find myself going back to the saw, but having to put on the face mask filter is a pain.

So fairly drama free day despite being at or below freezing most of the morning I did this to my thumb trying to catch my falling 28ft ladder (did I mention that those class IA fiberglass ladders are heavy?).  Must of hit it on one of the square edged brackets, but it tore off skin and part of the nail.

In the winter, this side of the casita doesn't see any sun, so it was like working on the dark side of the moon.  With a 5mph breeze and no sun it was a bit chilly all day. 

So here is where I left it and I look forward to getting back at it today.  Will probably get to the eave and then start  working on the porch/front until I can get the hardie shingle for the dormer.....

« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 07:50:44 AM by TexasRedNeck »
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Offline stlaser

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #470 on: January 14, 2018, 09:53:16 AM »
Looking good Charles! :likebutton:
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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #471 on: January 14, 2018, 10:07:36 AM »
I have always had the same issue you are having with your windows sticking out further than the trim if i understand you correctly. On my next project i think i will mill some trex to build the window trim out 3/16?-1/4? beyond the window rather than being that amount subflush.
If i remember correctly you have vinyl windows. Those usually have a return which will allow the trim and window to be sealed whereas aluminum window have no return so you end up with a void that is troublesome to seal. I have tried doubling up hardi but my nailers will not get a nail through 1 1/2? hardi. Plywood would be easy but would rot unless sealed well. I think trex or composite deck material would work and be millable.
Your project is looking great.

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #472 on: January 14, 2018, 10:27:05 AM »
Thanks guys. That?s a good idea Jared. I have fiberglass extruded windows in this project. So far I?m pleased with them.

Yeah so say a 3 inch piece of trex milled to about 1/2 inch would recess the window about 1/4 inch. Then I could cheat the hardie over to butt right up against the window. Next
Build ....if there ever is one.  Lol.


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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #473 on: January 14, 2018, 10:30:09 AM »
 :likebutton:
Nate

Push a KIA or Prius into the ditch this winter if the opportunity arises........it'll build character for a suffering millennial!

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #474 on: January 14, 2018, 07:23:59 PM »
Today I learned that things slow way down when you get further off the ground.  Didn?t get started until after bible study and breakfast so got in about 5 hours worth.

Got too dark to take a final photo but finished the side up to the last course before it will transition to the hardie shake shingle in the dormer. Tomorrow I?ll start on the front under the porch.



Will have to rip some jamb extensions for the door, trim the windows and door and then get rocking. 


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« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 07:42:49 AM by TexasRedNeck »
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Offline JR

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #475 on: January 14, 2018, 09:01:56 PM »
I kinda liked the LOWES siding,,,,,,,,,,
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Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #476 on: January 16, 2018, 03:27:07 PM »
So, Monday, we were off for MLK day.  I got started by ripping some wood for jamb extensions and then attaching them to the frame with biscuits glue and screws.  Now I have to figure out the sill extension but I can get to that later.

Then I started trimming the windows and door with hardie.  Based on my experience with the windows on the other side and some good advice from Jared, I started trying to figure out how to get better fittment of the hardie next to the windows, especially since the porch is the workmanship I'll have to look at most I wanted it to be right.

So I found that the hardie siding was really really close to being able to shim the trim out to the right depth so I ripped from siding 3 inch wide which allowed space for the protrusion of the window and flashing and allowed me to get the hardie right up to the frame and even recess the window in the trim about an 1/8 of an inch.  I still had to use the slightest of composite shim but it turned out really well.  I have 4 more windows to go  and 3 of them are high off the ground so there's that....


Once I got the trim put on the door and two front windows I had to stop and make a 3 hour trip to the pool guy again.....we were having some communication problems with the square footage of the decking and needed to work it out in person.

So with that said, it looks like I'm about to bury a brand new L5P Duramax in the yard...... 

Only thing left is to see if I can work him down on the cost to add a 14x24 slab for the outdoor kitchen while they are at it.

Oh well, I'll just smile and write the check and watch the family be happy.....

So its probably not productive to think about all the things I could do with with that money.....

turn-key 50x80 shop building....
Couple of nice pieces of hydraulic machinery....
3 pre 86 full auto NFA items....
but I digress.....

So I got back from the pool detour and had about 1 hour of daylight left and I was able to get most of the hardie up on the left side of the door and had to stop and pick up all my tools.  My AO there looked like the Red Dog had gotten into my shop and strewn my tools from one end of the yard to the other....  My shop is a disorganized mess and it drives my OCD crazy.....

I may run a crew next weekend to get the other two sides of the building finished quickly.  I need to get this thing done so I can start on the shipping container project which needs to be foamed with insulation at the same time.  Depends on whether the crew leader is hung over or not I suppose......  Weekend work for those guys is beer and girlfriend money....
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 03:28:53 PM by TexasRedNeck »
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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« Reply #477 on: January 16, 2018, 04:38:29 PM »
Truer words never spoken! "Oh well, I'll just smile and write the check and watch the family be happy....."  :popcorn:
Mike
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« Reply #478 on: January 16, 2018, 05:47:04 PM »
Amazing what we give into to keep the family happy. I must say though, I love my pool too.

Hows the thumb?
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« Reply #479 on: January 16, 2018, 06:15:41 PM »
Thumb is fine unless I touch it.  Having trouble buttoning shirts and pants.  Almost made me pee myself yesterday as I held it too long and was having trouble getting my jeans unbuttoned.....

I probably ought to disinfect it, put some triple A on it and cover it, but I'm lazy

Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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« Reply #480 on: January 16, 2018, 08:36:38 PM »
Accidentally spill a little whiskey on it & you?ll be fine!
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« Reply #481 on: January 16, 2018, 08:55:57 PM »
Hmm. I like the way you think. Perhaps I can hold my whiskey with my left hand and just let the thumb soak In the glass


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« Reply #482 on: January 16, 2018, 09:41:39 PM »
Shame on you trn!!!!!!!

Your thumb should get its own glass for all the pain and suffering you just it through. .....why does it have to share with you......HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Nate

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« Reply #483 on: January 17, 2018, 01:32:22 AM »
Ol  framing joke. See who gets it. Soak it in cider  lol


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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #484 on: January 17, 2018, 08:35:58 AM »
Dave, I think framers and mechanics have similar brains. :embarrassed

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Offline Bigdave_185

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #485 on: January 17, 2018, 01:46:19 PM »
Dave, I think framers and mechanics have similar brains. :embarrassed

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Still waiting for big brother to come and delete it.   I noticed a bit ago a curse word gets deleted pretty fast


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« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 02:19:39 PM by cudakidd53 »

Online Jared Herzog

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Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #486 on: January 17, 2018, 08:26:20 PM »
That is what spelling phonetically will get you. Fonetikaly? If you still do not get it read it out loud to your wife. Thats what i did lol.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 08:28:15 PM by Jared Herzog »

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #487 on: January 17, 2018, 09:08:10 PM »
Well Mr Dave, there has to be a line drawn somewhere!

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #488 on: January 17, 2018, 09:18:34 PM »
I aint touching that with a ten foot pole.  I am however excited that the temps will get into the 60s this weekend so I hope to get more hardi hung.  Although the chance of rain is high.
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Offline Bigdave_185

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #489 on: January 17, 2018, 10:38:22 PM »
That is what spelling phonetically will get you. Fonetikaly? If you still do not get it read it out loud to your wife. Thats what i did lol.
I hope you didn?t get smacked on my part


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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #490 on: January 19, 2018, 06:38:10 AM »
OK guys, serious moment, you knuckleheads... (I'm starting to sound like Don.....:-0 )

So I successfully negotiated my being robbed  by a pool contractor....which means that I will also be pouring a slab for an outdoor kitchen..(gotta up my game to keep up with Nate)

Its going to be 14x24 with a roof structure over it.  I'd like to use the same wax treated 4x6 posts to match the porch on the main house and the castia. 

My concern is how to attach the posts to the slab so that the roof is stable.  I'm convinced that surface mounting the posts will lead to a rickety structure.  there will be 6 posts. 

While I could use 45 degree braces on each side of each post at the top it would clash as none of the other structures have that on the posts.

Is there a way to attach posts to concrete in a more solid fashion?

Or should I sink the posts in the ground prior to the pour?

The structure will be typical shed type roof with hardie soffit, metal roof, etc, so there will be some mass to it.

Looking for some advice and experience.  ........

Where's Jared?
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

Joshua 6:20-24

Offline Bigdave_185

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #491 on: January 19, 2018, 06:50:28 AM »
Links to follow of what I would look at

https://www.strongtie.com/standoffcolumnbases_columnbases/cbs-cbsq_productgroup_wcc/p/cbs.cbsq

https://embed.widencdn.net/pdf/plus/ssttoolbox/worqn198p0/Deck-Details-11x17.pdf

This website has some pretty sweet options that can help ya in the right direction



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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #492 on: January 19, 2018, 07:58:54 AM »
OK guys, serious moment, you knuckleheads... (I'm starting to sound like Don.....:-0 )

So I successfully negotiated my being robbed  by a pool contractor....which means that I will also be pouring a slab for an outdoor kitchen..(gotta up my game to keep up with Nate)

Its going to be 14x24 with a roof structure over it.  I'd like to use the same wax treated 4x6 posts to match the porch on the main house and the castia. 

My concern is how to attach the posts to the slab so that the roof is stable.  I'm convinced that surface mounting the posts will lead to a rickety structure.  there will be 6 posts. 

While I could use 45 degree braces on each side of each post at the top it would clash as none of the other structures have that on the posts.

Is there a way to attach posts to concrete in a more solid fashion?

Or should I sink the posts in the ground prior to the pour?

The structure will be typical shed type roof with hardie soffit, metal roof, etc, so there will be some mass to it.

Looking for some advice and experience.  ........

Where's Jared?

My vote would be to sink the post in ground prior to pour. Similar to pole barn structure. I used plates on top of concrete when I built a large pergola in Texas and it still wiggled more than I liked. I ended up attaching it to the house.

Good luck. Great progress on your hide.  :beercheers:
Mike
2008 D-Max pretty stock except small lift, tires, and intake.

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #493 on: January 19, 2018, 08:05:20 AM »
My experience with pole building types in northern WI.  Sink them about 4 ft in the ground.  Back fill with dirt only.  The 4 ft level here is an approximate.  That is about how deep the frost goes in most places.

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #494 on: January 19, 2018, 08:56:52 AM »
My experience with pole building types in northern WI.  Sink them about 4 ft in the ground.  Back fill with dirt only.  The 4 ft level here is an approximate.  That is about how deep the frost goes in most places.

It was 36-40 in NE IN, here in Colorado it?s 30? although after building my shed which sits on 4 posts if I had to do it again I would go deeper. Maybe it?s soil type as we had heavy clay in IN but this sandy clay mix doesn?t seem as stable & we have bentonite in the soil which is notoriously unstable. I might auger those posts in Tex & throw a round patio stepping stone in bottom of each to help spread the trash load.
Learn the rules like a pro so that you can break them like an artist -Pablo Picasso-

Online Jared Herzog

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #495 on: January 19, 2018, 09:29:10 AM »
If you are using the posts i think you are burying them in the dirt and concreting around them will remove any movement and also take the need for using braces on the corners away for a year or two. Then the posts will be either rotted or termite infested and will need to be redone. When we get into free standing structures we go to 4x4 steel posts galvanized and buried in a hole filled with concrete. Or we use imbeds and weld the post to the imbed.
You can do imbeds and attach wooden posts to them but no matter what there will be a pivot point there. Depending on the amount of air push and lift that roof has it could be substantial movement. If it were my structure with my family underneath it i would do at least one of these things.
1) corner braces on wood or iron posts.
2) cement in galvanized posts and have a plate at the top of the post that wraps around the beam and is structurally screwed to the beam removing movement and the ability to lift.
3) Wall in two sides of the structure and internally reinforce the roof structure to stop any side to side movement.
4) Anchor it to an existing structure.
It is nice to match existing structures but it is more important to ensure a structure is stable. The posts can be rocked around and used as a feature that matches some existing rock on the pool or in the yard to keep a theme going. I have been lucky to never have a structure come down. In my part of Central Texas it is common to get straight line winds. I have been on ranches and seen structures that are not braced and anchored properly simply get ripped from the ground and tossed into a pasture. What is more common is less wind that induces sway and the roof being heavy pivots the posts and lays over. If the corner braces are not proper it can snap the post right below the brace.

Online nmeyer414

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #496 on: January 19, 2018, 09:37:42 AM »
OK guys, serious moment, you knuckleheads... (I'm starting to sound like Don.....:-0 )

So I successfully negotiated my being robbed  by a pool contractor....which means that I will also be pouring a slab for an outdoor kitchen..(gotta up my game to keep up with Nate)

Its going to be 14x24 with a roof structure over it.  I'd like to use the same wax treated 4x6 posts to match the porch on the main house and the castia. 

My concern is how to attach the posts to the slab so that the roof is stable.  I'm convinced that surface mounting the posts will lead to a rickety structure.  there will be 6 posts. 

While I could use 45 degree braces on each side of each post at the top it would clash as none of the other structures have that on the posts.

Is there a way to attach posts to concrete in a more solid fashion?

Or should I sink the posts in the ground prior to the pour?

The structure will be typical shed type roof with hardie soffit, metal roof, etc, so there will be some mass to it.

Looking for some advice and experience.  ........

Where's Jared?

hey now, I am just trying to keep folks from getting complacent.

check out this thread.....its a bit long but dang if there isnt some great ideas here.

www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=108239

Nate

Push a KIA or Prius into the ditch this winter if the opportunity arises........it'll build character for a suffering millennial!

Online Jared Herzog

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #497 on: January 19, 2018, 09:46:16 AM »
Here is a free standing carport we did behind a custom home. We went around and around with the engineer and homeowner on this one. They wanted heavy timber with no braces. Minimalist. We declined to build it without bracing. It is properly built and braced. It is VERY top heavy. All the internals are cedar beam. It moved in every direction 4?-6? even with the corner braces. I have it pinned to an old cedar so the roofers could go up top and be safe. Before we left we also used 1/4? plate on every single joint with through bolts. That is when we removed the tree brace. The plates helped stiffen it up and it is still there today but i do not think it would stand without corner braces. Without the plates and through bolts the movement would have eventually worked the timber locks loose until it failed. Once high winds are factored in bracing is essential.

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Re: Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #498 on: January 19, 2018, 11:40:33 AM »
To keep it solid you would would have to bury the posts. I just used the above strong ties but doubt they would give you a solid structure.

Now an idea is to sink a round galv pole sticking up a couple ft. Bore the matching posts and slide over the poles. You get a solid mount with matching posts
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Online Jared Herzog

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Hide site, retirement site.
« Reply #499 on: January 19, 2018, 11:55:59 AM »
JR might be onto something. Some of the 6X6 turned posts already have a square hollow core. Maybe you can find some square tubing that fits inside without drilling and compromising the post. If you do use pipe use heavy pipe. Like rigid electrical conduit pipe or drilling pipe. The thinner fencing pipe used on corners is good with compression to a point. But, if there is a side load that causes any deformation of the wall they will bend real easy. Most posts are only strong when vertical. Induce sway and the post is no longer vertical. Also, on these covers the posts are exposed to more weather as wind blows rain into the structure. Even with good paint the expansion and contraction of the wood forms small cracks in the paint. These cracks absorb water into the post under the paint where it is harder to dry out. This increases the speed at which they rot. If you can find posts treated and rated for ground contact they will last longer. Much longer. The posts i am seeing on the market are treated with a wax type coating which makes them safe to use inside a dwelling. This coating is also used as a food preservatives and is safe and non toxic. But, outside they are not holding up well for extended time periods. 
Another thing worth mentioning is that turned posts with a hollow core get pretty thin where they are turned. The manufacturers are using (4) 2x6?s glued together with a hollow core then turning them to kick out these posts. I think the 6x6 posts are rated for @5500-6000 pounds each but only in compression.
Something else i learned the hard way is to always wrap wooden posts that are getting wrapped with rock really well. They need to be pre painted and wrapped in house wrap or tar paper or both. If not the rock absorbs water this water is transferred to the post and causes the post to swell. This swelling post expands and cracks the rock work which allows more water in and more swelling. 
« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 12:22:11 PM by Jared Herzog »