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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Getting a course on metal building construction
« on: August 17, 2015, 09:22:47 PM »
So this will make it into the BOL build but since I am methodically progressing there in logic and time order I thought I would post this here in the interim.

I am adding on to the existing shop until I can justify the 40x60.  So I'm adding a lean to on to the back of the shop for the tractor and garden equipment and adding a new door to the short side of the shop.  So I need to extend the roof line and roof, add R panel to match, cut out existing posts and purlin, frame a new door etc.

I'm learning to appreciate the logic and molecularity of the metal building components.  Open channel for the sides, supporting 8 inch purlin, R panel, eaves, jamb trim, etc.  The purlin clips really were a neat piece that I didn't know what they were.

Here are some shots. I cut out and re-framed the end wall to accommodate a 10 ft wide roll up and then extended the rear roof line with open C channel and 3 inch pipe concreted into the ground.

I have to go back this coming week and figure out how to hoist 30 ft purlin by myself and weld them in place to attach roof panels and side panels.
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2015, 09:23:34 PM »




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Online Atkinsmatt

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2015, 10:08:35 AM »
Can you use the tractor to help.  Secure them to the front bucket, one end at a time, and lift away.  Might have to adjust placement on the bucket but as high as you are going, that should help some. 
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Offline JR

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2015, 04:28:04 PM »
I did this with a press-lam when I did my garage.

It is 26'x6"x16" and I don't know what it weighed. Little 2500lb HF did me good, now it pulls cars.
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2015, 08:44:10 PM »
Thanks Matt and JR.  They arent all that heavy, just awkward.  I think about 125lbs.

JR, explain what you did there, I can't quite follow from the pics.  Tripod and small electric hoist?

I think I can lift one end into the channel and then go to the other end and lift it.  I need a way to secure the one end so it doesn't slide out when lifting the other end. I think I can strap it with a ratchet strap and then if it falls out it won't hit the ground.
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Offline rasimmo

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2015, 12:19:12 AM »
You can weld some tabs on the side of the beams where you want the purlins to go. Pick one end up and clamp it to the tab. Them pick up the other and clamp it. You will have to go to each end a couple times to get it in place. That is just part of the joys of building by yourself. That gives you a lot more to weld to also.

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2015, 12:38:02 AM »
hmm. You may be onto something.  The purlin has to slide into the open c channel at each end, which is also open at the ends.  I can tack some angle on the support posts that will get the purlin at the right height and then i can work each end to stand it up on edge and slide it forward into the c channel. Great ideas.  Once I get there I'll have some options.  At least I got the tree climbing with a chainsaw out of the way already.....
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2015, 12:14:28 PM »
Well it turned out to be easier than I expected. Lifted one end into the channel and then went to the other end and lifted it up angled out laterally to clear the lower part of the C channel. Squared it up and rotated upright and welded.
Note to self. Tennis shoes don't provide much protection against welding slag. 


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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2015, 12:15:03 PM »
Time to install some roof panels before tackling the outer wall.


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Offline Nate

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2015, 02:23:34 PM »
don't make me get joker to give you a class on welding now RN......;D
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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2015, 02:28:11 PM »
Lol. Maybe. I've finally got the machine set about right. It's just too darn hot to wear long pants and boots. Making progress.



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Offline KensAuto

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2015, 02:46:56 PM »
So, you're going to finish the structure before digging out the stumps, when it's too late to utilize the tractor? Sounds like something I would do. lol
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Offline cudakidd53

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2015, 02:49:09 PM »
Yup, hard to tell if that's nylon, hair, socks or flesh smoking.......sometimes all the above!  Just don't use your thumb to push down a corner after tacking each side of it.......what's that sizzling sound?
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2015, 02:50:17 PM »


No Ken, going to cut them flush with the ground.  Then put 5 inches of crushed granite.


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Offline cudakidd53

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2015, 02:54:34 PM »


No Ken, going to cut them flush with the ground.  Then put 5 inches of crushed granite.


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What a ya gonna use for a cup holder then?
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2015, 08:36:22 PM »
LOL. The tractor has a cup holder.......


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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2015, 08:38:28 PM »


Enough for today. Mom loves me. She and dad drove up with Mexican food.


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« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 08:39:49 PM by TexasRedNeck »
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2015, 11:40:51 PM »
Looks good from here.

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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2015, 12:01:49 AM »
Thanks Ken.  I wish I had taken a pic of me.  I sweat so much today in the humidity that even my leather tool pouch was completely soaked. It looked like I had been soaked with a hose and rolled in dirt.


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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2015, 11:05:16 AM »
Thanks Ken.  I wish I had taken a pic of me.  I sweat so much today in the humidity that even my leather tool pouch was completely soaked. It looked like I had been soaked with a hose and rolled in dirt.


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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2015, 03:28:09 PM »


Enough for today.

Just trim left.


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Offline Nate

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2015, 03:34:41 PM »
that looks really good RN
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2015, 08:29:16 PM »
Good work...fast shelter!
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2015, 07:14:50 AM »
Let me know when you are ready to erect one out on the other place.  I'll bring the PTO post auger and it will go fast with a couple of people working on it.  It takes 4 times as long when you are doing it by yourself.
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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2015, 10:26:39 AM »
Startin to look more and more like a skilled laborer...good job RN.
I'm almost ready for your help out here. Gathering supplies for more "awning" to extend shop work area. 36' rafters purchased used, next up concrete.
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Offline Dawg25385

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2015, 10:37:51 AM »
Looks good bud!
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2015, 08:36:23 PM »
Thanks guys.  And Ken, remember I may be a office chair softie, but my dad was a 40 year union ironworker, so I have the genes.
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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2015, 06:09:06 PM »
Well got the 10ft x 8ft door hung. Used the tractor to lift it. Got the trim up but my top piece was to short so I have to order more




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Offline Sammconn

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2015, 06:32:04 PM »
So was it a design faux pas, or a "I cut it twice and it's still too short" moment.

Looks good in any case. Hydraulics make some things so easy.
I just don't want to wind up missing a digit or limb.  I can sometimes get in a hurry to get results.
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Offline Nate

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2015, 08:07:05 PM »
man, that looks really nice.
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2015, 07:49:39 AM »

So was it a design faux pas, or a "I cut it twice and it's still too short" moment.

Looks good in any case. Hydraulics make some things so easy.
Design error. It was a 10 ft wide opening and I ordered 10 ft trim not thinking I needed to have overlap at the top on each side about 2 inches.


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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2015, 05:11:25 PM »
So here are a few lessons learned along the way:

When ordering trim, it must overlap usually.  Eg. the simple eave trim i ordered 2 15ft pieces for a 30ft wall, and it needs to overlap, so I need to reorder another piece.  same for door trim. 

you never have enough screws - order more

My little harbor frieght electric sheet metal shear paid for itsself when cutting the panels around the door.  But they only work along the long side.  They won't go up and down through the channels.  Had to use hand shears for that.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2015, 05:11:57 PM by TexasRedNeck »
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Offline rasimmo

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #32 on: August 30, 2015, 09:17:01 PM »


My little harbor frieght electric sheet metal shear paid for itsself when cutting the panels around the door.  But they only work along the long side.  They won't go up and down through the channels.  Had to use hand shears for that.

One of these nibblers works for cutting across the panels.

http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DW896-16-Gauge-Nibbler/dp/B00004RHJ3

Basically a high speed hole punch.

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #33 on: August 30, 2015, 09:50:27 PM »
Wow. You must know me well. Spend $300 on a tool you'll use once every 5 years....


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Offline rasimmo

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2015, 10:10:36 PM »
I didn't say you HAD to buy one, just mentioned it. You have to let the folks in your head argue about it and decide for themselves. That's what I do anyway. :o

Seriously though, it is worth it if you take on the challenge of the larger building you have mentioned before. For me it is one of the shared tools in my family's collection. Odd stuff like this only one of us will buy and we share it. I bought a nice rotary hammer during my home build that got added to the list so I'm good for a while.

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #35 on: August 30, 2015, 10:15:12 PM »
It would belong on the same shelf with my HD right angle drill, and my hitachi roto hammer, biscuit joiner, wet tile saw etc


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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #36 on: September 07, 2015, 10:28:31 PM »
Got 13 tons of crushed granite to spread in the new lean to on which to park the equipment. The new shop door worked out well. The truck fits with room to spare.


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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #37 on: September 08, 2015, 08:52:29 AM »
Nice work there RN!

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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #38 on: September 08, 2015, 10:17:42 PM »
You are a perceptive one, Don.  Why yes, that is a long range sniper potato cannon.  If it werent for the beating I'd take from my wife, who swore me to never post it, I would show the video of the first time we lit it off and sent rounds down range over the pond and far out into the woods.  She giggled hysterically like a real redneck girl.  I knew she had it in her since she's originally from TN

I'm still struggling with the ideal ignition system or perhaps the propellant, but I use starting fluid and a piezo electric battery powered BBQ ignitor.  It makes a wonderful sound at launch.
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Offline cudakidd53

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #39 on: September 08, 2015, 10:41:43 PM »
Yeah, just be careful RN - few years back in these parts had a guy at a body shop kill himself setting one off- some type of catastrophic failure - plastic seams to degrade faster with distillates and blasts.
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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #40 on: September 08, 2015, 11:18:18 PM »
I'd like to know more about that incident.  My limited research would seem to be that unless you get crazy with accelerant (acetylene etc) and an oxidizer there is simply not enough oxygen in the 18 inches of 4 inch PVC to burn a significant over charging.  I noticed that if I spray too much starting fluid in the chamber that it won't fire at all.  Cutting the fuel amount down gives a more consistent ignition, presumably because of the amount of O2 present.

http://www.aaroncake.net/spuds/boom.asp

http://www.advancedspuds.com/fuel.htm
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #41 on: September 08, 2015, 11:20:43 PM »
Maybe he's talking about the affects petroleum has on plastic?
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #42 on: September 08, 2015, 11:37:53 PM »
perhaps, or perhaps the guy used his cutting torch nozzle to charge it with Acetylene and O2....big boom......once.

The minimum burst pressure of 4 inch schedule 80 pipe is 1110 PSI and an 18inch cylinder has a surface area of  226 inches so the minimum burst force is in excess of 251,000 pounds total.  Even not considering the safety factor inherent in the manufacturing, its hard to see garden variety propellants exerting that kind of force.

More exotic mixtures,especially with additional O2 supplied, could be very problematic..

Sorry, geek rant over
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Offline Dawg25385

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #43 on: September 08, 2015, 11:56:08 PM »
perhaps, or perhaps the guy used his cutting torch nozzle to charge it with Acetylene and O2....big boom......once.

The minimum burst pressure of 4 inch schedule 80 pipe is 1110 PSI and an 18inch cylinder has a surface area of  226 inches so the minimum burst force is in excess of 251,000 pounds total.  Even not considering the safety factor inherent in the manufacturing, its hard to see garden variety propellants exerting that kind of force.

More exotic mixtures,especially with additional O2 supplied, could be very problematic..

Sorry, geek rant over

Propellant, plus O2 is probably the kicker...

We used to blow up hydrogen balloons in physics... big balloons with a candle on a stick. Then somebody got the great idea to run out to the metals shop and half fill one with O2 first... about blew the windows out
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Offline cudakidd53

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #44 on: September 09, 2015, 06:57:15 AM »
Yeah, incident in question was at a "Body Shop" so something more than lighter fluid was in play-

We all stuck with metal soda cans, tennis balls, lighter fluid and matches with our faces right next to the touch hole.......oh, and electrical tape held it together........until it got hot and gooey......Houston, we have a problem........
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #45 on: September 09, 2015, 07:27:48 AM »
Yeah, sounds like my physics class where we were dropping small pieces of pure sodium into a test tube of water and watching the reaction.  We decided to apprpriate a 1lb piece of sodium, place it in a small shoe box and then wrap in duct tape, poke some holes in it and then throw it in the small koi pond.....
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #46 on: September 09, 2015, 08:45:53 AM »
Back on the subject of just getting the proper fuel

In my considerable PGE (Potato gun experience) which differs from PGE (potato gun expertise!) a couple shots of breck hair spray is all that is needed.

The secret to successful PG sniping is to keep the potato subsonic! Don't want some sonic boom from something the size of a meteorite ripping through the local atmosphere. A couple shots of the breck and you have a good subsonic potato that is CKOC (Cow knockin' out capable)!

Push button starter from an outdoor grill is a good trigger. I don't think they come in 4.5 pounds of pull though...
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Offline Nate

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #47 on: September 09, 2015, 12:08:46 PM »
i was gonna say that we used hair spray as well
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Offline Nate

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #48 on: September 09, 2015, 12:09:20 PM »
oh and we think that you should take the beating from household 6 and share the video with us..................;D
If you need the promise of eternity in the kingdom of heaven to be a good person … You were never a good person in the first place!

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Getting a course on metal building construction
« Reply #49 on: September 09, 2015, 10:27:24 PM »
https://youtu.be/sjS2LlMEVTc

Ok, its your fault Nate.  I may be moving in with you and Tracy....
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