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Online Nate

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sight picture
« on: January 06, 2016, 07:41:31 PM »
here are some pictures of what the proper sight picture looks like.


























« Last Edit: August 15, 2017, 04:58:48 PM by nmeyer414 »
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2016, 09:00:14 PM »
The basics never go out of style.  Thanks for putting that up here Nate.
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Offline Atkinsmatt

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2016, 09:05:43 PM »
Great reminder.  Thanks.
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Online Nate

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2016, 09:50:56 PM »
should this be a sticky?
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2016, 09:52:51 PM »
Yes.
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2016, 10:07:51 PM »
should this be a sticky?
Ask the weapons mods...
If they say so, I surely wouldn't disagree. Good stuff here!
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Online Nate

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2016, 12:06:06 AM »
Wheres bobby
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Offline Dawg25385

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2016, 01:36:43 AM »
Glad you included the straight eights ;)

Thanks for posting this ip


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Offline Higher Caliber

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2016, 11:14:28 AM »
set as sticky
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Offline moto123

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2016, 02:07:49 PM »
So cupping your left hand beneath your right hand is not recommended?  Can anyone explain why?  I've always done it that way.

I was also interested to learn from the 1st and 4th pictures that the bullseye should be aligned vertically with the top of the sights.  I had always assumed that the front circle dot should be centered on the bullseye.  Basically I thought the bullet should leave a hole directly behind where the front site dot was.  Guess you learn something new every day!

Offline cudakidd53

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2016, 03:11:39 PM »
Reason for the grip hand over knuckles instead of cupped is that it locks everything in more firmly and balances hand pressure from left - right and visa versa - helps prevent canting of the gun one way or another as well as providing for a more centered and balanced stance. 

Cupping is something the Dr. does just before you cough.. :o
« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 03:12:23 PM by cudakidd53 »
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Online Nate

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2016, 06:18:35 PM »
Cupping is something the Dr. does just before you cough.. :o

yep, I just spit what I was drinking all over the place!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ROFLMFAO!
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Offline cudakidd53

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2016, 09:21:25 PM »
Cupping is something the Dr. does just before you cough.. :o

yep, I just spit what I was drinking all over the place!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ROFLMFAO!

YeeeeessS!  He shoots and scores-  any go through your nose?  High School cafeteria flashbacks!  ;)
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2016, 11:03:45 PM »
So cupping your left hand beneath your right hand is not recommended?  Can anyone explain why?  I've always done it that way.

I was also interested to learn from the 1st and 4th pictures that the bullseye should be aligned vertically with the top of the sights.  I had always assumed that the front circle dot should be centered on the bullseye.  Basically I thought the bullet should leave a hole directly behind where the front site dot was.  Guess you learn something new every day!
Definitely not recommended
When shooting the weaver stance in particular and folding both hands together, you can then pull with the left hand (Assuming you are right handed). This, both stiffens your arms and helps to mechanically lock your shoulder blade/shoulder and upper rib cage into a solid mass. This makes for less moving parts in the human and a stiffer overall gun mount (Hands and arms) This makes you more accurate and almost completely rules out the chance for a limp wrist malfunction.
I used to see a lot more malfunctions from women shooters using the isosceles than from men shooting the weaver stance. No mechanical lock with the Isosceles stance!!
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2016, 09:21:10 AM »
I tend to favor the urban stance and hold...

slightly crouched, body at 90 degrees to the target arm outstreched fully and slightly above head level with gun canted 90 degrees so that any sightline is down the side of the slide.
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

Joshua 6:20-24

Offline Dawg25385

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sight picture
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2016, 10:27:44 AM »
I tend to favor the urban stance and hold...

slightly crouched, body at 90 degrees to the target arm outstreched fully and slightly above head level with gun canted 90 degrees so that any sightline is down the side of the slide of my Hi-Point.


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« Last Edit: January 08, 2016, 10:28:19 AM by Dawg25385 »
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Offline EL TATE

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2016, 10:54:47 AM »
I tend to favor the urban stance and hold...

slightly crouched, body at 90 degrees to the target arm outstreched fully and slightly above head level with gun canted 90 degrees so that any sightline is down the side of the slide of my MAC-10.

Got you a little more gansta.

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Offline Flyin6

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2016, 11:14:59 AM »
I tend to favor the urban stance and hold...

slightly crouched, body at 90 degrees to the target arm outstreched fully and slightly above head level with gun canted 90 degrees so that any sightline is down the side of the slide.
That works best if you push the gun toward the target quickly while pulling the trigger to add to the muzzle velocity!
Yelling: "Take that punk" adds to the overall experience!
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Offline BobbyB

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2016, 01:12:41 PM »
Wheres bobby

Was in Reno at standing up in an old Division buddy's wedding.
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2016, 04:52:21 PM »
Missing a tooth? Tat on the face? Wake up with a tiger in the bathroom?


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Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Offline BobbyB

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2016, 10:21:30 PM »
Missing a tooth? Tat on the face? Wake up with a tiger in the bathroom?


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Nope, however I did walk 2 ladies down the aisle  (at the same time) as there was an extra bridesmaid. I stepped up and accepted the responsibility.
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!

Offline Dawg25385

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2016, 10:50:00 PM »

Missing a tooth? Tat on the face? Wake up with a tiger in the bathroom?


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Nope, however I did walk 2 ladies down the aisle  (at the same time) as there was an extra bridesmaid. I stepped up and accepted the responsibility.

Tough job, but somebody had to do it :)


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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2016, 11:47:31 PM »
Way to take one for the team Bobby.  Selfless act of courage right there...
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

Joshua 6:20-24

Offline BobbyB

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2016, 10:07:39 AM »
Tough job, but somebody had to do it :)

Way to take one for the team Bobby.  Selfless act of courage right there...


I willingly accepted the risk. Hard part was the aisle was perfect for a pair, but our trio was pushing it. Between their dresses right at my feet, and candles running along the walkway, and my broad shoulders... But it all worked out great, the wedding was a success.
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!

Offline cudakidd53

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2016, 11:31:35 AM »
By walking two down the isle, you minimized your risk of catching fire there Bobby; glad you're always thinking safety........yellow reflective belts would be proud!
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2016, 12:24:31 PM »
One guy escorting two women...and each of them naturally is always subliminally trying to look better than the other. I would have thought after doing a proper risk assessment, that would have been a medium risk operation, bordering on high!

Glad to see you made it through it!
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Offline BobbyB

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2016, 02:54:43 PM »
One guy escorting two women...and each of them naturally is always subliminally trying to look better than the other. I would have thought after doing a proper risk assessment, that would have been a medium risk operation, bordering on high!

Glad to see you made it through it!

It was an extreme risk. Right side bridesmaid's fiance was in attendance. The left side was single. People in the seats were shocked, I believe I got a head nod.


The funny part is the night before the rehearsal I was hanging out with the best man, his wife (also a bridesmaid), the bride and my buddy. The bride mentioned an extra bridesmaid, and I without thinking said " I can take both."

They all turned and looked at me, the bride laughed and yes, " Oh my god you should..."

So I did.
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!

Offline Flyin6

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2016, 05:33:46 PM »
I'd expect nothing less from an Airborne NCO!
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2016, 07:53:23 PM »
You still rocking the beard through all this??  Tell me you had the beard....and the glasses.  That would be, like, aviator cool....
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

Joshua 6:20-24

Offline BobbyB

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2016, 02:40:01 AM »
You still rocking the beard through all this??  Tell me you had the beard....and the glasses.  That would be, like, aviator cool....

Beard yes, Oakleys yes. But not my M-Frames. They are so scratched up, that I left them in XJ.

Apparently some ladies seem to think I should wear dressier clothes more often.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2016, 02:20:22 AM by BobbyB »
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2016, 06:49:25 AM »
Watch your six, Bobby.  They may be sneaking up on you with a wedding ring.
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

Joshua 6:20-24

Offline BobbyB

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2016, 10:01:13 AM »
Watch your six, Bobby.  They may be sneaking up on you with a wedding ring.

Its -25 windchill here, ain't no one sneaking up on me as, no one wants to go outside where I am most of the day. But they put the effort in, well that's worth something.  ;D
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2016, 11:39:19 AM »
I do believe that indicates that Bobby is On The Market.!


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Offline cudakidd53

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2016, 11:57:34 AM »
I do believe that indicates that Bobby is On The Market.!


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....in the Frozen Food section apparently!  ;D
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2016, 12:35:07 PM »
Frozen meat market.....


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Offline BobbyB

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #35 on: January 13, 2016, 02:24:39 PM »
I do believe that indicates that Bobby is On The Market.!


....in the Frozen Food section apparently!  ;D

Frozen meat market.....

Never claimed to be off the market! So ha!

P.S. Due to the polar vortex everything is frozen in this area
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!

Offline EL TATE

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #36 on: January 13, 2016, 04:21:09 PM »
Now this is a proper DOT. Well done sir!
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Offline BobbyB

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #37 on: January 13, 2016, 04:44:47 PM »
Now this is a proper DOT. Well done sir!

I have my moments. Bring some chaos, then fade away and wait until next time.
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!

Offline Flyin6

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2016, 05:10:46 PM »
And this was supposed to be a sticky...of useful information!

Worst offenders: Our own people! >:( :o ;)
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Offline EL TATE

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2016, 05:17:17 PM »
So back to shooting; when clearing a building, gun up in the air near your cheek as you dash from room to room shouting "CLEAR" like Columbo, or down towards your feet when moving and brought up to line of sight as you enter each space? I've also seen guys with AR's clearing with the stock over their shooting shoulder, (i assume to shorten it up some for maneuvering), is this ever done with a shotgun for the same purpose or is accuracy diminished too much for those shenanigans?
« Last Edit: January 13, 2016, 06:02:41 PM by EL TATE »
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Online Nate

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #40 on: January 13, 2016, 06:27:32 PM »
when conducting CQB, you are not really using the sights
Nate

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Offline cudakidd53

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #41 on: January 13, 2016, 10:26:07 PM »
Kinda wing shooting ya might say???
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #42 on: January 13, 2016, 10:37:33 PM »
Well, Mike, here on the south side of the tracks, we call that pray and spray. Or visa versa.
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #43 on: January 14, 2016, 09:51:31 AM »
What kinda tracks??? :D
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Offline cudakidd53

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #44 on: January 14, 2016, 10:57:08 AM »
We call it "instinctive shooting" but is based upon the predication that there's a previous ability to actually hit a target with the sights/aiming..........without that, it's "stinky shooting" or in the Southern vernacular........"pray and spray".

Actually did it successfully last month in Mo. hunting quail using a 28g shooostgun,  shooting around a tree, etc.  Previously success includes Pheasant double from my back, pheasant out the window blind eye side (right eye), and out the window across the truck hood on a flying grouse.........'cause someone bet me you couldn't.  From the back was caused by slipping on ice doing a "Don Dive" while buddies in a parked truck watched you flop and fire laughing their warm tushes off!  Two in the hand were worth the wet back, 'cause all they'd bagged was a few good laughs!  :)
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #45 on: January 14, 2016, 10:58:50 AM »
Stinky shooting...that made me lol
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Online Nate

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #46 on: January 14, 2016, 09:36:08 PM »
bobby and HC can explain the purpose/process of CQB not really using sights way better than I can.
Nate

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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #47 on: January 14, 2016, 10:20:44 PM »
I'm sure HC and Bobby can elaborate and correct me as I'm just a schmuck with a gun who has never even hurt anyone's feelings.  With hundreds (or thousands) of hours of practice comes the ability to make accurate hits without sights in close situations.  Instinctive shooting, if you will.  Things happen really fast in close quarters in low light.  Most of your cognitive ability is focused on positively identifying the threat and there is simply not time to bring a weapon to the traditional sight line, focus and make hits.  Add to this the close nature of team mates and it makes a difference.

One of the reasons why the MP5 is considered by many, the gold standard in weapons for CQB.  Very compact easy to maneuver and a very high cyclic rate to put multiple rounds on target.
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

Joshua 6:20-24

Offline Higher Caliber

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #48 on: January 15, 2016, 02:41:07 PM »
I've always used my sights. Both eyes open dot on the bullseye. There is a difference between surgeon CQB and Viking CQB. I practiced instinctive fire or intuitive fire. But I found I was only slightly slower getting on the dots and I had a higher percentage of accuracy. I got away from it after teaching/attending schools where too many people used the excuse they were developing "intuitive shooting" skills to hide their piss poor performance. That's just me though. I constantly evolve and maybe some day will be convinced otherwise.

Playing the opfor in active shooter and officer survival training using sim rounds. I always fear the guys I see on their sights because they hit me twice as often regardless if they are fresh recruits or seasoned shooters. I think there is something to be said for "intuitive sight alignment" perhaps. I have seen studies involving eye tracking software where guys claiming to be intuitive shooters were more often than not (at least subconsciously) lining up their sights, just didn't realize it.

This being said, your standard grunt level CQB is just putting rounds and rounds on scary stuff till it stops scaring you! At least it used to be, before Obama ROE.


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Offline BobbyB

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Re: sight picture
« Reply #49 on: January 15, 2016, 02:57:23 PM »
Sights... they are on there for a reason.
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!