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Offline JR

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #50 on: December 23, 2017, 12:02:58 PM »
From what I have read and why I asked is when facing in on the roof you need the ventilated airspace with foil down. I have the airspace with reflective OSB.

For the wall the foam would be against the outside wall. So between the OSB with housewrap, then the insulation, vapor barrier and sheetrock.

I understand with the foil only barriers they need an airspace, moving or not.
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Online Jared Herzog

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #51 on: December 23, 2017, 01:06:15 PM »
Back in 05 i was framing a house out on some farm land. The neighbor was also framing his home next door. At the end of the day he came over and ripped on us for using osb sheeting. He had done osb on the corners and foam board everywhere else. We were both sheeting that same day. That night we had straight line winds. There was zero foam board left on his house. So i made sure to walk over and see how he liked his foam board.
We have also used gyp lap in the past. I do not see it as often anymore. Went in just like sheeting the outside. If i remember correctly they were 2?X8? pieces.

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #52 on: December 23, 2017, 08:07:15 PM »
Not sure I?m tracking 100% JR. However as long as you have airspace the foil will be effective. I suppose that if you are keeping heat out then foil goes out. If I?m cold climate the foil would go in?


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Offline JR

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #53 on: December 23, 2017, 09:24:52 PM »
Yep, think we're on the same page.
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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #54 on: December 23, 2017, 09:26:14 PM »
Good. I was worried for a
Minute. I?m getting slow


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Offline Bigdave_185

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The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #55 on: December 25, 2017, 08:55:22 AM »
Well now I am slightly confused,   I have intention of insulating my enclosed cargo trailer.  I was planning on putting my aluminum insulation facing out.   I would put 1 inch in between the vertical wall supports ( wall supports are 1inch) , than put some small 1/2 inch wood strips over that foam and apply more insulation over that wood and tape seams.    Which direction would I want my aluminum backed foam?   In the summer I would want to keep heat out, winter I will want to keep heat in.    Trailer will be heated and air conditioned as well

Thoughts?


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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #56 on: January 04, 2018, 08:49:52 AM »
Jared, bought a prehung fiberglass door yesterday and it was hung for 2x4 walls.  I get the need for jamb extensions, but the threshhold is confusing me a bit.

I followed your instructions on hanging the door.  sub floor was level (thank the Lord) and plumbed the hinge side.

I accounted for the depth of sheetrock to be installed so that the frame will be flush with the sheetrock when installed.

The door is not perfectly true and the upper corner of the door lacks about 3/16 from being flush with the frame when shut, like the bottom is (it still engages the weather strip)

question 1: Should I install the latch side out of plumb by that amount to make the door sit perfectly flush to the frame?

question 2: The threshold of the door when framed into the 2x6 wall leaves a small part of the subfloor/subsill exposed in front of the threshold.  How do you deal with that?  A metal pan, a ripped down piece of treated calked and painted?

Any advice or pictures would be appreciated
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Online Jared Herzog

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The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #57 on: January 04, 2018, 06:24:38 PM »
When i buy doors that go into a 2x6 wall i get threshold extensions. I also have frames made to fit a 2x6 opening. I prefer to order these extensions and or thicker jambs to avoid the build out. I usually get these from Mccoys. If you can not get an extension you will need to seal that area well. Otherwise water will run under the door and rot the underlayment. You can flush the door out with the exterior and build up the inside. The only issue with this is if the door opens too wide before it hits a stop then the door contacts these extensions and ruins the door and hinges if they get hit hard enough. This is why doors and frames get flushed out with the hinge side wall most often. Ideally you want your threshold to extend beyond the floor so as to create a drip lip so water is shed away from the underlayment. If you do not want to move the door out you can make one from cedar or hardwood as a threshold extension. Also, trex or the composite deck stuff works well. Just seal it to the metal one. If your door is protected by a porch you should be golden as much less water will run down the face of the door.
If you can not find a threshold extension flush the door out with the outside area. I always plumb my hinge side first. If the wall is crooked with the top wall leaning in or out i split the difference. Then go to the knob side top and match it to what you did on the hinge side at the top. Then from there you do not use a level. If the hinge side is plumb and level and the top knob side is in or out or flush to match the hinge side top you use the door as a guide and equally touch the door to the seal. This matches the frame to the door seal. You do not want to plumb the knob side in such a way that leaves you with poor seal contact.
My daughter and i just got done hanging doors in a 6000 ft house. These are solid core paint grade doors and weigh a ton. The framers were in a hurry and the door rough openings are neither plumb or square. All doors were ordered for 2x4 walls and many are 2x6. On top of that the frames were for 1/2? sheetrock. The whole home ceiling and walls are 5/8 sheetrock. So it was a nightmare to hang all the doors. Some rough openings were so bad that they went 1/2? over normal and i pinned the doors corner to corner square and tight and ran out of room. The doors look perfect but it was not easy. Tomorrow I start trimming them and that is going to be a party.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2018, 07:21:00 PM by Jared Herzog »

Online Jared Herzog

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #58 on: January 04, 2018, 06:33:16 PM »
I will get photos tomorrow to help describe what i am doing. This will also show all the issues I had and the solutions i chose to make the doors work and look great. It will not be easy but when i am done no one will ever have any idea of the opening issues. All doors also sit and function perfectly. No automatic openers or closers or doors that move because it is hung wrong.
The variables with hanging a door are limitless. The doors have built in pressure points that can move the entire door one way or another with just some shimming or hinge work. I am finding the companies that hang these doors are letting the pre hung quality really slip. I usually work on every single door i install to make corrections before i ever hang it. At some point I will be forced into slabs and a hinge jig to avoid all these issues.
If anyone ever wants to call me with specific questions pm me and i will give you my number.

Online Jared Herzog

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #59 on: January 04, 2018, 10:06:06 PM »
One thing that has helped with these heavy doors is using screws through the jams so they could be sucked up or let loose while adjustments are being made. Nails are harder to adjust. When you get the door hung where you want it set the shims with some brads or finish nails. These screws make making small adjustments easier. Do not forget to counter sink the screws. I use a pilot bit with a bore tip so it is a one step process. Then i start three screws on each side so they are ready when the door is in the proper location.
Brad nailing the shims is the last step. Otherwise they always end up falling out for me and the door gets out of wack.
If the door contacts the knob side remove a hinge screw that is closest to the center of the jamb so it will catch stud and replace the 3/4? screw with a 3? black screw or brass screw etc so they match. This pulls the door away from the knob side of the jamb.

Online rpar86

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The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #60 on: January 05, 2018, 01:15:45 AM »
I had a door hung the way Jared described (flushed to the outside with jamb extensions on the inside). It was annoying having the striker running across those extensions every time you closed it. I ended up pulling it out and reinstalled it with the jamb extensions on the outside and got a sill extender. I think it was sold as a kit at Home Depot... maybe special order for the JeldWen door, can?t remember.

Here?s said door before I fixed it (deck had been torn down outside, hence the caution tape).




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« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 01:18:30 AM by rpar86 »
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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #61 on: January 05, 2018, 01:52:54 PM »
I got it all in and adjusted the strike side to fit the weather strip. Just need to rip jamb extensions and figure out a threshold extension.


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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #62 on: January 05, 2018, 01:53:48 PM »


Since this is under a porch I won?t lose sleep over it.


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Online Jared Herzog

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #63 on: January 05, 2018, 06:51:55 PM »
Here is a problematic door i did today.

Offline Bigdave_185

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #64 on: January 06, 2018, 03:50:14 PM »
Minus the shims still there. How do you like this frame to door

Buddy called and asked if I knew how to hang a door.  I laughed and said yeah.  Just read a how to on it lol

It?s been a few years but as definitely a good refresh


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Online Jared Herzog

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The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #65 on: January 06, 2018, 08:44:06 PM »
It looks good. One thing to watch for is the clearance on the knob side top. In the photo it looks tight. But, that could just be an illusion with my phone due to the angle and the door not being 100% shut. But other than that the door looks well done. Your hinge side gap looks perfect. That door is hung better than 99% of the doors i see. That is a good percentage as i am never 100% satisfied with my own door hanging. Sometimes there is a give and take with a poorly framed opening. I have seen doors so bad that the knob strike does not grab. I have had homeowners just deal with that for years. I have also had doors bind so bad that the knob binds. The hinges were spring putting a lot of pressure on the door to pull away from the stop knob side.
One issue i am seeing is the companies hanging these doors on the frames before we purchase them are installing the back cut in the wrong direction. When you get into thicker doors or fine finishing the knob side of the door must be back cut. The door companies usually buy slabs and hang the door, template and route out the hinges and drill out the knob. The diagonal point of the door where the door approaches the knob side of the frame is shorter on the side of the door that touches the stop. This allows it to pivot close to the frame without touching. Then the opposite side of the door on the knob side is longer. This closes the reveal to a tighter tolerance. If you look at the top of your doors you will likely see a back cut. Sometimes it is hard to see unless you have a square. It is usually about 1/8?.
When this back cut is backwards the stop side of the door impacts the frame. Then when you force it shut it gaps. This leaves a less than ideal gap. Then if the door is close but not impacting the frame the installer walks away and the painter shows up. The paint thickness on the door and the frame eat away at your once tight clearance and it impacts again.
When door manufacturers get this back cut wrong it complicates things. Sometimes this back cut which should be on the knob side is on the hinge side. This causes gapping issues.
One of these gapping issues is a door that feels like it is springing away from the frame stop knob side. This is because the hinges were installed incorrectly or this back cut is on the wrong side. There are times where i loosen a hinge and slide in a plastic spacer. These spacers go under the leading or trailing edge of the hinge jamb side. The sort of plastic that is used for banding on cardboard boxes. If the plastic is installed on the outer edge of the door under the hinge close to the edge it will open the reveal on the hinge side in turn closing the gap on the knob side. This takes the springy feeling away if the gap was too tight and the door is impacting the frame on the hinge side. Some of this springy feeling is because the manufacturer did not fully route under the hinge on either side. Or they installed the screws crooked and a screw head is impacting the hinge face binding it.
The opposite will happen if that plastic strip is put under the hinge closer to the stop. This will close the gap on the hinge side and give you more room on the knob side. These plastic bands can be doubled up or tripled up. Any more than that and other methods need to be used. It is unlikely to ever need more than two.
I am afraid i am starting to muddy the waters. There are hundreds of large and small techniques to adjust a door. I have all those in a bag of tricks i have used for twenty years. These are very hard to teach someone over the internet. It takes someone standing beside me with a bad door and a worse opening.
It will be interesting to see how the doors go in on my personal home. I framed it with my daughter and walked her very slowly through the framing process. My house is mathematically perfect. Something that is hard to do on a paying job. One area where i miscalculated is shrinkage. When i patterned my top plate to my bottom plate i did not account for the extra shrinkage of the wet pressure treated wood. This has allowed the bottom to contract more than the top. In some areas where we have nine foot ceilings the difference from base to top is 1/16? in that span. But, that is the worst area i could fine. Everything else is set to absolute zero.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 08:53:03 PM by Jared Herzog »

Online Jared Herzog

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The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #66 on: January 06, 2018, 09:30:01 PM »
I have been trying to figure out the best way to move this thread forward. I have gone back and forth. Here is my plan and i will leave it here. If there are no objections and if Don is ok with this format we will proceed. If not we will figure something else out.
I see this thread as a discussion and question and answer area. A place where we all share knowledge and learn from each other. I am planning on learning from the input given to me from you guys. I want to improve my own skillset as well as help others avoid pitfalls i have personally been in. I would like my mistakes pointed out so i can better my work. I am never offended at all especially with constructive criticism.
I do many different trades and jump around from job to job as well as building my own home slowly with my family. If i had a thread for every job or task i think we would be jumping back and forth and something would be lost and it would be confusing for everyone especially me. I am afraid i will have questions asked to me that i overlook. What i am considering is just posting my work here in the hopes that it will start a discussion on every aspect that you guys have interest in. Personally i do not care where the discussion goes based on the jobs we are all doing and the questions we all have. I would like to make it picture heavy. This will take some time on my part to gather images and post when i have wifi or a way to upload quickly.
I am planning on going back to square one with my personal home on here. I have tons of photos. Then just add work that i am doing for customers.
Anyway, what do you guys want to do? Where do we go from here?
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 09:30:36 PM by Jared Herzog »

Offline Flyin6

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #67 on: January 06, 2018, 09:33:16 PM »
I like the way this thread is working!
 :likebutton:
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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #68 on: January 06, 2018, 09:53:42 PM »
Good plan Jared

Offline Bigdave_185

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #69 on: January 06, 2018, 11:00:29 PM »
I think the question answer portion can be very helpful.  Much like the what did you do today thread that has many topics of many actions it leads to good learning and communication. Maybe as we find detailed descriptions of how to do something here we can have one of the mods pull it out into its own searchable thread

As for posting photos it?s super easy on a smart phone with the Tapatalk app, I think a large portion of us use it that way. Don posts on his computer where I would have to unload a house to find mine.

I would like to see how to do finish work, did lots of ruff framing but maybe one or two homes of trim, base, case and so forth. 

With my home we are building I will be doing all of the tile work and will document as I do that.


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Online Jared Herzog

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The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #70 on: January 08, 2018, 04:43:41 PM »
Today i picked up a handy tool at Home Depot. The house we are installing trim on has 5/8? fire rated sheetrock walls with a very thick Monterey drag texture. The original builder did not transfer stud marks or hazards to the ground so now it is a guessing game. My stud finder is having a hard time getting through these thick walls. I was looking at better stud finders and came across a cheap solution from a company that focusses on hiring vets and is made in the USA sold at homedepot. 
The concept is so simple i did not think this $10 tool would work. It is a plastic pointed handle with two magnets in it. You go back and forth on the wall until it finds a sheetrock screw or nail. I was shocked at what happened when i found the first nail. The magnet is so strong it pulled the tool out of my hand and cut my finger when it slapped against the wall. The top magnet grabbed a fastener and the lower magnet pivoted the upper magnet against the metal and it dropped pointing down with gravity. Shockingly great in its function and simplicity. I give this item two thumbs and one bloody finger up.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 04:44:17 PM by Jared Herzog »

Offline Bigdave_185

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #71 on: January 08, 2018, 05:22:47 PM »
What if the drywaller sucks and misses lol


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Online Jared Herzog

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #72 on: January 09, 2018, 08:08:25 AM »
Usually the screw will not be sub flush with a mis. If it is a nail then usually the drywall will pop off and expose the loose nail. The real issue is this thing may pull the nails and screws out of the wood.LOL. It is amazing that some magnets can be so strong. There are warnings about placing this magnet near anything like credit cards and pacemakers.
I have two rolling magnets we use to remove roofing nails from job sites after a new roof is installed. We also use them to clean up after a framing job. The first time i thought the magnet was just real heavy but it was magnetized to the rebar in the concrete. I hate moving that magnet in anything but my trailer. I always wondered if it would ruin the trucks computers. One customer with a pacemaker took one look at the magnet and could not leave fast enough.

Online TexasRedNeck

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #73 on: January 09, 2018, 12:28:20 PM »
Yes. I have some collar stays for my dress shirts that have neodymium magnets to hold the collar. About the size of a small hearing aid battery and hard to pull apart.


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Offline Bigdave_185

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #74 on: January 19, 2018, 07:06:06 PM »
Insulation under the basement concrete floor?
I feel like I have seen this done before, dig foundation hole, underlay pipe, backfill gravel, lay down blue insulation, pour concrete on top of..... am I up in the night?
Is this of value?


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Online Jared Herzog

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #75 on: January 19, 2018, 07:20:15 PM »
I am afraid i am of little help here. In Texas we do not use basements. When we hide bunkers underground and under buildings due to our climate insulation down there is of little value.
Does anyone else know the answer?

Offline Flyin6

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #76 on: January 19, 2018, 08:31:22 PM »
In kentucky, the basements receive natural heating from the still... So I guess I couldn't comment  :facepalm:
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Offline Sammconn

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #77 on: January 19, 2018, 08:48:33 PM »
I've noticed some of it in some of the new construction up here.
Have no idea on details.

But yes I've seen blue under the slab.
Blue on the walls, and several feet out from the walls at about the four foot level.

I have no ideas on the what fors, and we deal in permafrost at depth, but yes I've seen it.

I just don't want to wind up missing a digit or limb.  I can sometimes get in a hurry to get results.
Sam