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Offline JR

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #50 on: December 23, 2017, 12:02:58 PM »
From what I have read and why I asked is when facing in on the roof you need the ventilated airspace with foil down. I have the airspace with reflective OSB.

For the wall the foam would be against the outside wall. So between the OSB with housewrap, then the insulation, vapor barrier and sheetrock.

I understand with the foil only barriers they need an airspace, moving or not.
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Offline Jared Herzog

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #51 on: December 23, 2017, 01:06:15 PM »
Back in 05 i was framing a house out on some farm land. The neighbor was also framing his home next door. At the end of the day he came over and ripped on us for using osb sheeting. He had done osb on the corners and foam board everywhere else. We were both sheeting that same day. That night we had straight line winds. There was zero foam board left on his house. So i made sure to walk over and see how he liked his foam board.
We have also used gyp lap in the past. I do not see it as often anymore. Went in just like sheeting the outside. If i remember correctly they were 2?X8? pieces.

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #52 on: December 23, 2017, 08:07:15 PM »
Not sure I?m tracking 100% JR. However as long as you have airspace the foil will be effective. I suppose that if you are keeping heat out then foil goes out. If I?m cold climate the foil would go in?


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Offline JR

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #53 on: December 23, 2017, 09:24:52 PM »
Yep, think we're on the same page.
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #54 on: December 23, 2017, 09:26:14 PM »
Good. I was worried for a
Minute. I?m getting slow


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Offline Bigdave_185

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The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #55 on: December 25, 2017, 08:55:22 AM »
Well now I am slightly confused,   I have intention of insulating my enclosed cargo trailer.  I was planning on putting my aluminum insulation facing out.   I would put 1 inch in between the vertical wall supports ( wall supports are 1inch) , than put some small 1/2 inch wood strips over that foam and apply more insulation over that wood and tape seams.    Which direction would I want my aluminum backed foam?   In the summer I would want to keep heat out, winter I will want to keep heat in.    Trailer will be heated and air conditioned as well

Thoughts?


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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #56 on: January 04, 2018, 08:49:52 AM »
Jared, bought a prehung fiberglass door yesterday and it was hung for 2x4 walls.  I get the need for jamb extensions, but the threshhold is confusing me a bit.

I followed your instructions on hanging the door.  sub floor was level (thank the Lord) and plumbed the hinge side.

I accounted for the depth of sheetrock to be installed so that the frame will be flush with the sheetrock when installed.

The door is not perfectly true and the upper corner of the door lacks about 3/16 from being flush with the frame when shut, like the bottom is (it still engages the weather strip)

question 1: Should I install the latch side out of plumb by that amount to make the door sit perfectly flush to the frame?

question 2: The threshold of the door when framed into the 2x6 wall leaves a small part of the subfloor/subsill exposed in front of the threshold.  How do you deal with that?  A metal pan, a ripped down piece of treated calked and painted?

Any advice or pictures would be appreciated
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Offline Jared Herzog

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The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #57 on: January 04, 2018, 06:24:38 PM »
When i buy doors that go into a 2x6 wall i get threshold extensions. I also have frames made to fit a 2x6 opening. I prefer to order these extensions and or thicker jambs to avoid the build out. I usually get these from Mccoys. If you can not get an extension you will need to seal that area well. Otherwise water will run under the door and rot the underlayment. You can flush the door out with the exterior and build up the inside. The only issue with this is if the door opens too wide before it hits a stop then the door contacts these extensions and ruins the door and hinges if they get hit hard enough. This is why doors and frames get flushed out with the hinge side wall most often. Ideally you want your threshold to extend beyond the floor so as to create a drip lip so water is shed away from the underlayment. If you do not want to move the door out you can make one from cedar or hardwood as a threshold extension. Also, trex or the composite deck stuff works well. Just seal it to the metal one. If your door is protected by a porch you should be golden as much less water will run down the face of the door.
If you can not find a threshold extension flush the door out with the outside area. I always plumb my hinge side first. If the wall is crooked with the top wall leaning in or out i split the difference. Then go to the knob side top and match it to what you did on the hinge side at the top. Then from there you do not use a level. If the hinge side is plumb and level and the top knob side is in or out or flush to match the hinge side top you use the door as a guide and equally touch the door to the seal. This matches the frame to the door seal. You do not want to plumb the knob side in such a way that leaves you with poor seal contact.
My daughter and i just got done hanging doors in a 6000 ft house. These are solid core paint grade doors and weigh a ton. The framers were in a hurry and the door rough openings are neither plumb or square. All doors were ordered for 2x4 walls and many are 2x6. On top of that the frames were for 1/2? sheetrock. The whole home ceiling and walls are 5/8 sheetrock. So it was a nightmare to hang all the doors. Some rough openings were so bad that they went 1/2? over normal and i pinned the doors corner to corner square and tight and ran out of room. The doors look perfect but it was not easy. Tomorrow I start trimming them and that is going to be a party.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2018, 07:21:00 PM by Jared Herzog »

Offline Jared Herzog

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #58 on: January 04, 2018, 06:33:16 PM »
I will get photos tomorrow to help describe what i am doing. This will also show all the issues I had and the solutions i chose to make the doors work and look great. It will not be easy but when i am done no one will ever have any idea of the opening issues. All doors also sit and function perfectly. No automatic openers or closers or doors that move because it is hung wrong.
The variables with hanging a door are limitless. The doors have built in pressure points that can move the entire door one way or another with just some shimming or hinge work. I am finding the companies that hang these doors are letting the pre hung quality really slip. I usually work on every single door i install to make corrections before i ever hang it. At some point I will be forced into slabs and a hinge jig to avoid all these issues.
If anyone ever wants to call me with specific questions pm me and i will give you my number.

Offline Jared Herzog

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #59 on: January 04, 2018, 10:06:06 PM »
One thing that has helped with these heavy doors is using screws through the jams so they could be sucked up or let loose while adjustments are being made. Nails are harder to adjust. When you get the door hung where you want it set the shims with some brads or finish nails. These screws make making small adjustments easier. Do not forget to counter sink the screws. I use a pilot bit with a bore tip so it is a one step process. Then i start three screws on each side so they are ready when the door is in the proper location.
Brad nailing the shims is the last step. Otherwise they always end up falling out for me and the door gets out of wack.
If the door contacts the knob side remove a hinge screw that is closest to the center of the jamb so it will catch stud and replace the 3/4? screw with a 3? black screw or brass screw etc so they match. This pulls the door away from the knob side of the jamb.

Offline rpar86

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The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #60 on: January 05, 2018, 01:15:45 AM »
I had a door hung the way Jared described (flushed to the outside with jamb extensions on the inside). It was annoying having the striker running across those extensions every time you closed it. I ended up pulling it out and reinstalled it with the jamb extensions on the outside and got a sill extender. I think it was sold as a kit at Home Depot... maybe special order for the JeldWen door, can?t remember.

Here?s said door before I fixed it (deck had been torn down outside, hence the caution tape).




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« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 01:18:30 AM by rpar86 »
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #61 on: January 05, 2018, 01:52:54 PM »
I got it all in and adjusted the strike side to fit the weather strip. Just need to rip jamb extensions and figure out a threshold extension.


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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #62 on: January 05, 2018, 01:53:48 PM »


Since this is under a porch I won?t lose sleep over it.


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Offline Jared Herzog

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #63 on: January 05, 2018, 06:51:55 PM »
Here is a problematic door i did today.

Offline Bigdave_185

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #64 on: January 06, 2018, 03:50:14 PM »
Minus the shims still there. How do you like this frame to door

Buddy called and asked if I knew how to hang a door.  I laughed and said yeah.  Just read a how to on it lol

It?s been a few years but as definitely a good refresh


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Offline Jared Herzog

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The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #65 on: January 06, 2018, 08:44:06 PM »
It looks good. One thing to watch for is the clearance on the knob side top. In the photo it looks tight. But, that could just be an illusion with my phone due to the angle and the door not being 100% shut. But other than that the door looks well done. Your hinge side gap looks perfect. That door is hung better than 99% of the doors i see. That is a good percentage as i am never 100% satisfied with my own door hanging. Sometimes there is a give and take with a poorly framed opening. I have seen doors so bad that the knob strike does not grab. I have had homeowners just deal with that for years. I have also had doors bind so bad that the knob binds. The hinges were spring putting a lot of pressure on the door to pull away from the stop knob side.
One issue i am seeing is the companies hanging these doors on the frames before we purchase them are installing the back cut in the wrong direction. When you get into thicker doors or fine finishing the knob side of the door must be back cut. The door companies usually buy slabs and hang the door, template and route out the hinges and drill out the knob. The diagonal point of the door where the door approaches the knob side of the frame is shorter on the side of the door that touches the stop. This allows it to pivot close to the frame without touching. Then the opposite side of the door on the knob side is longer. This closes the reveal to a tighter tolerance. If you look at the top of your doors you will likely see a back cut. Sometimes it is hard to see unless you have a square. It is usually about 1/8?.
When this back cut is backwards the stop side of the door impacts the frame. Then when you force it shut it gaps. This leaves a less than ideal gap. Then if the door is close but not impacting the frame the installer walks away and the painter shows up. The paint thickness on the door and the frame eat away at your once tight clearance and it impacts again.
When door manufacturers get this back cut wrong it complicates things. Sometimes this back cut which should be on the knob side is on the hinge side. This causes gapping issues.
One of these gapping issues is a door that feels like it is springing away from the frame stop knob side. This is because the hinges were installed incorrectly or this back cut is on the wrong side. There are times where i loosen a hinge and slide in a plastic spacer. These spacers go under the leading or trailing edge of the hinge jamb side. The sort of plastic that is used for banding on cardboard boxes. If the plastic is installed on the outer edge of the door under the hinge close to the edge it will open the reveal on the hinge side in turn closing the gap on the knob side. This takes the springy feeling away if the gap was too tight and the door is impacting the frame on the hinge side. Some of this springy feeling is because the manufacturer did not fully route under the hinge on either side. Or they installed the screws crooked and a screw head is impacting the hinge face binding it.
The opposite will happen if that plastic strip is put under the hinge closer to the stop. This will close the gap on the hinge side and give you more room on the knob side. These plastic bands can be doubled up or tripled up. Any more than that and other methods need to be used. It is unlikely to ever need more than two.
I am afraid i am starting to muddy the waters. There are hundreds of large and small techniques to adjust a door. I have all those in a bag of tricks i have used for twenty years. These are very hard to teach someone over the internet. It takes someone standing beside me with a bad door and a worse opening.
It will be interesting to see how the doors go in on my personal home. I framed it with my daughter and walked her very slowly through the framing process. My house is mathematically perfect. Something that is hard to do on a paying job. One area where i miscalculated is shrinkage. When i patterned my top plate to my bottom plate i did not account for the extra shrinkage of the wet pressure treated wood. This has allowed the bottom to contract more than the top. In some areas where we have nine foot ceilings the difference from base to top is 1/16? in that span. But, that is the worst area i could fine. Everything else is set to absolute zero.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 08:53:03 PM by Jared Herzog »

Offline Jared Herzog

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The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #66 on: January 06, 2018, 09:30:01 PM »
I have been trying to figure out the best way to move this thread forward. I have gone back and forth. Here is my plan and i will leave it here. If there are no objections and if Don is ok with this format we will proceed. If not we will figure something else out.
I see this thread as a discussion and question and answer area. A place where we all share knowledge and learn from each other. I am planning on learning from the input given to me from you guys. I want to improve my own skillset as well as help others avoid pitfalls i have personally been in. I would like my mistakes pointed out so i can better my work. I am never offended at all especially with constructive criticism.
I do many different trades and jump around from job to job as well as building my own home slowly with my family. If i had a thread for every job or task i think we would be jumping back and forth and something would be lost and it would be confusing for everyone especially me. I am afraid i will have questions asked to me that i overlook. What i am considering is just posting my work here in the hopes that it will start a discussion on every aspect that you guys have interest in. Personally i do not care where the discussion goes based on the jobs we are all doing and the questions we all have. I would like to make it picture heavy. This will take some time on my part to gather images and post when i have wifi or a way to upload quickly.
I am planning on going back to square one with my personal home on here. I have tons of photos. Then just add work that i am doing for customers.
Anyway, what do you guys want to do? Where do we go from here?
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 09:30:36 PM by Jared Herzog »

Offline Flyin6

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #67 on: January 06, 2018, 09:33:16 PM »
I like the way this thread is working!
 :likebutton:
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #68 on: January 06, 2018, 09:53:42 PM »
Good plan Jared
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Offline Bigdave_185

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #69 on: January 06, 2018, 11:00:29 PM »
I think the question answer portion can be very helpful.  Much like the what did you do today thread that has many topics of many actions it leads to good learning and communication. Maybe as we find detailed descriptions of how to do something here we can have one of the mods pull it out into its own searchable thread

As for posting photos it?s super easy on a smart phone with the Tapatalk app, I think a large portion of us use it that way. Don posts on his computer where I would have to unload a house to find mine.

I would like to see how to do finish work, did lots of ruff framing but maybe one or two homes of trim, base, case and so forth. 

With my home we are building I will be doing all of the tile work and will document as I do that.


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Offline Jared Herzog

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The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #70 on: January 08, 2018, 04:43:41 PM »
Today i picked up a handy tool at Home Depot. The house we are installing trim on has 5/8? fire rated sheetrock walls with a very thick Monterey drag texture. The original builder did not transfer stud marks or hazards to the ground so now it is a guessing game. My stud finder is having a hard time getting through these thick walls. I was looking at better stud finders and came across a cheap solution from a company that focusses on hiring vets and is made in the USA sold at homedepot. 
The concept is so simple i did not think this $10 tool would work. It is a plastic pointed handle with two magnets in it. You go back and forth on the wall until it finds a sheetrock screw or nail. I was shocked at what happened when i found the first nail. The magnet is so strong it pulled the tool out of my hand and cut my finger when it slapped against the wall. The top magnet grabbed a fastener and the lower magnet pivoted the upper magnet against the metal and it dropped pointing down with gravity. Shockingly great in its function and simplicity. I give this item two thumbs and one bloody finger up.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 04:44:17 PM by Jared Herzog »

Offline Bigdave_185

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #71 on: January 08, 2018, 05:22:47 PM »
What if the drywaller sucks and misses lol


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Offline Jared Herzog

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #72 on: January 09, 2018, 08:08:25 AM »
Usually the screw will not be sub flush with a mis. If it is a nail then usually the drywall will pop off and expose the loose nail. The real issue is this thing may pull the nails and screws out of the wood.LOL. It is amazing that some magnets can be so strong. There are warnings about placing this magnet near anything like credit cards and pacemakers.
I have two rolling magnets we use to remove roofing nails from job sites after a new roof is installed. We also use them to clean up after a framing job. The first time i thought the magnet was just real heavy but it was magnetized to the rebar in the concrete. I hate moving that magnet in anything but my trailer. I always wondered if it would ruin the trucks computers. One customer with a pacemaker took one look at the magnet and could not leave fast enough.

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #73 on: January 09, 2018, 12:28:20 PM »
Yes. I have some collar stays for my dress shirts that have neodymium magnets to hold the collar. About the size of a small hearing aid battery and hard to pull apart.


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Offline Bigdave_185

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #74 on: January 19, 2018, 07:06:06 PM »
Insulation under the basement concrete floor?
I feel like I have seen this done before, dig foundation hole, underlay pipe, backfill gravel, lay down blue insulation, pour concrete on top of..... am I up in the night?
Is this of value?


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Offline Jared Herzog

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #75 on: January 19, 2018, 07:20:15 PM »
I am afraid i am of little help here. In Texas we do not use basements. When we hide bunkers underground and under buildings due to our climate insulation down there is of little value.
Does anyone else know the answer?

Offline Flyin6

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #76 on: January 19, 2018, 08:31:22 PM »
In kentucky, the basements receive natural heating from the still... So I guess I couldn't comment  :facepalm:
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Offline Sammconn

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #77 on: January 19, 2018, 08:48:33 PM »
I've noticed some of it in some of the new construction up here.
Have no idea on details.

But yes I've seen blue under the slab.
Blue on the walls, and several feet out from the walls at about the four foot level.

I have no ideas on the what fors, and we deal in permafrost at depth, but yes I've seen it.

I just don't want to wind up missing a digit or limb.  I can sometimes get in a hurry to get results.
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #78 on: January 25, 2018, 06:04:56 AM »
basements in texas are indoor swimming holes...

Dave, what I udnerstand, and I am by no means an expert, is that insulating under a slab is really only done for slabs that will have radiant heat.

Areas above grade are usually insulated in colder climates because they become an unlimited heat sink.
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Offline stlaser

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #79 on: January 25, 2018, 06:56:55 AM »
Dave, unless you live in the artic it?s not needed under a basement slab. Reality is it has to do with how deep the frost line is in your area. Here in Co where I live it is 30? max, NE IN was more around 40? or so. Obviously you want to be below frost lines with the insulation. We just set it on outside of wall at top of footer in Indiana. Guys who cheated would back fill a bit & cut foam board in half. Inspectors would see it sticking out of ground once the entire basement was backfilled and sign off on the inspection, so pay attention there. Here in Colorado they don?t seem to run blue board on the outside (most likely due to higher cost). What they do here is line all the exterior walls inside with bat insulation covered in a white plastic. It?s not near as good as the foam blue board we use on exteriors back in Indiana in my opinion but it meets the min R value. We used blue board on exterior shop foundations as well to help with heating them which is worth noting.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 06:57:57 AM by stlaser »
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Offline Bigdave_185

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #80 on: January 25, 2018, 08:39:02 AM »
So I have dug a bit more into it.  Seems as my house will be out of the ground mostly.  Only 40 inches for me to dig in for the basement, my home will mostly be a daylight basement as they call it.   No point in insulation under the slab.  Or on the exterior walls since it will be a really short concrete wall.  Regular expanding foam is what?s on the plan. Or blown in behind the mesh net


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Offline Jared Herzog

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #81 on: February 20, 2018, 08:52:25 AM »
I wanted to walk through some steps i use to do trim work inside a house. Before i learned how to do trim i just cut every corner at a 45. This was time consuming and not very accurate. If the board was too short it got tossed aside. If it was too long the joints would not work properly and the wall would/could develop a crack just above the joint. Or i would be making small incremental cuts on the saw.
What i do now is work through a room counter clock wise because i am right handed. If a wall is longer than the material those pieces get 45 degree cuts. I try to end those spots on a stud if the trim is 5 1/4? or taller. The shorter stuff can be nailed into the baseplate and hold ok. But, i still try to find a stud. When i have to join two pieces i have the shorter length be at least 32?. If the material is too short it looks odd to me. Every joint that is made to lengthen a run is glued with wood glue or some similar paintable material.
The first piece of trim will sit square in the corner with 90 degree cuts. If the piece is too long trim it to fit. If the piece is slightly too short tighten it up on the right side. This leaves it maybe 1/8? short on the left. This is ok. The second piece will cover any shortfall. This is where the trim goes faster with this method as the pieces can be short and not perfect and are still usable. I still try to get my tolerances to 1/16? though.
Place the second trim piece on the chop saw and cut the end off at a 45 degree cut. This will reveal the trim pattern that you will cut with a sharp coping saw.


The coped part will be slightly back cut also.

If your first piece was too short the shortfall will be hidden as the pieces puzzle together.

That takes care of all inside corners. Outside corners get a 45 or 22 1/2 degree cut. Also glue these cuts together for a better installation. When you have rounded corners the flat back of the rounded piece will measure 5/8? 9 out if 10 times. Most round corners are the same. There is a smaller version but those get trimmed with a 90 degree.

In the above photo you will see jigs. I use jigs everywhere to eliminate guessing. Every rounded corner gets 1 1/8? 18 gauge brads and the piece glued down. If a larger fastener is used the trim will crack. The remaining trim gets 15 or 16 gauge 2? fasteners.

There is not much more to trim than that. Just a lot of practice will improve the results.

Offline stlaser

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #82 on: February 20, 2018, 09:59:41 AM »
Nice write up on the trim, never had to deal with rounded corners but now I know.
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #83 on: February 20, 2018, 10:31:44 AM »
Coping the profile is the way to go. Especially on crown molding.  When I first started I thought I needed a fancy saw for crown but learned better.


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Offline JR

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #84 on: February 20, 2018, 11:48:15 AM »
Right on time I am about ready to do mine and have a couple round corners. Sure wish they made a piece for that.
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Offline stlaser

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #85 on: February 20, 2018, 03:56:35 PM »
Right on time I am about ready to do mine and have a couple round corners. Sure wish they made a piece for that.

You could always soak a piece then form it & make your own.....
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Offline JR

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #86 on: February 20, 2018, 06:12:16 PM »
I thought about making one, well 2. Maybe on my lathe. Not made for wood but a little can't hurt.

Bending that corner will not work, too tight.
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Offline Jared Herzog

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The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #87 on: February 20, 2018, 06:12:22 PM »
We have talked about pex in the past here. I am helping finish this 6000 ft house and they used a mix of sharkbite and apollo clamps. They used a mix of apollo and sharkbite fittings. Everything was the clamp style. I usually use Viega and am comfortable with it. But, at half the price for the fittings i did a TON more research to see how to handle this. About two days worth with calls to sharkbite and apollo.
Here is what i found. The pex is the same size in each type being A, B, or C. So i use type b and can buy any brand type b and be ok. I will use either Viega or sharkbite pex pipe. They are made in the US. Apollo pex pipe is made in China. Viega fittings are made in Italy or the US. Sharkbite and apollo are Chinese fittings. Apollo tools are Chinese made. Sharkbite tools are US made. Around here Lowes has sharkbite and Home Depot has Apollo and a few sharkbite mixed in. The stuff at Home Depot is the sharkbite fittings only. They do not sell the sharkbite clamps.
The fittings are generally, almost 100%, the same OD so the fittings work with each others clamps. The builder here mixed apollo and sharkbite clamps with the fittings. But, they only had an apollo clamping tool. They said this was ok but my research says it is not. Some were leaking. I had to reclamp several. All will have issues where the apollo tool clamped a sharkbite clamp and vice versa. The sharkbite tool is calibrated to pinch their own clamps. Apollo will pinch their own clamps. DO NOT MIX APOLLO CLAMPS WITH A SHARKBITE TOOL. DO NOT MIX A SHARKBITE CLAMP WITH APOLLO TOOL. The sharkbite tool is calibrated to its own clamp and does not close as far as an apollo tool will on their own clamp. This could lead to leaks or broken clamps which may present themselves some time in the future. No leak now equals a possible leak later. One way would be to recalibrate the tool with the go no go gauge. This may allow the tool to basically crimp a competitors clamp. The difference is .001?. 
The Viega fittings are expensive. They are bronze. The sharkbite and apollo fittings are copper. The copper could suffer dezincification. This is likely with manufacturing of the materials in China. There were recent lawsuits with Zurn fittings that had the zinc leach out and the fittings crumbled. This issue is not one a bronze fitting will suffer.
So now i own the viega tools and the sharkbite tools. The sharkbite tools are much cheaper and one tool crimps 3/8-1?. Where the viega has a separate tool for each size.
I will only be using Viega on my personal homes. If a customer chooses i will do sharkbite. I can also source fittings more easily when we do repair work. Viega is only offered at actual plumbing shops around here. 
I did find the sharkbite push to connect fittings are rated for wall burial where access is limited or non existent. I wonder how this will pan out in the future when the o ring that seals dries up and starts leaking. Maybe they never will but that is not what i have seen of very old o rings.
Apollo and Sharkbite also have a copper crimp ring tool and kit. These must have each crimp checked with a go no go gauge. This copper ring is not to be buried. The stainless clamps are rated for ground burial if that matters.
Anyway, what are you guys seeing or finding about this pex stuff? I imagine in the near future these clamps will be standardized or maybe not. Using a mix of fittings and clamps with the wrong tool could be an out on a warranty claim.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 06:13:56 PM by Jared Herzog »

Offline KensAuto

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #88 on: February 20, 2018, 08:29:37 PM »
I personally would never install a fitting that contains an o-ring connection, behind a wall. O-rings will fail at some point, just the nature of the beast. The one time I did (sharkbite quick connect style), it failed. Of course, this is just my opinion, and probably worthless...so carry on.
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Offline Bob/OlallaWa

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #89 on: February 20, 2018, 09:12:26 PM »
Ken, I don't think that is just your opinion. It is so hard to get the right stuff to repair a problem area. 

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #90 on: February 20, 2018, 09:55:30 PM »
My house is all Uponor expander-type fittings. Recently I cut and re-routed my 1? main line to the garage so I could plumb in a water softener and the 20-30 joints I made have had zero leaks. Piece of cake to do with the Milwaukee expander tool I rented from Ferguson.


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Offline Jared Herzog

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #91 on: February 20, 2018, 10:38:51 PM »
I think pex is fine. The issue may or may not be the actual correct installation with the pex type a,b,or c matching the specific fittings matching the clamps/rings/collars matching the proper tool for the application. When i was researching this stuff it is like the opinions are all over the place. The experts do not even agree. This leads to confusion and mistakes. I spent tons of time just on hold waiting for answers from sharkbite and apollo. The answers were cut and paste type responses.
I have never been on a job where Uponor was used. I know that the fittings are not easily bought locally when i need them on the weekend for an emergency repair. Sort of back to the same issue i am currently having with Viega. I have heard some homeowners claim that a fitting for type b pex worked on type a pex. But, for how long is the real issue i think.
I am enjoying not using map gas while crouching inside a wall cavity while i solder together a copper manifold. The copper we buy now is not as tough feeling like the old stuff was. It feels thin and is not round. I also question its purity and susceptibility to galvanic corrosion. I know we have some sketchy well water around here that eats copper up. This is where the Uponor may shine. I am not fond of the viega, sharkbite, or apollo composite ?plastic? fittings. I have seen too many cracked. 

Offline rpar86

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #92 on: February 20, 2018, 11:34:58 PM »
Yeah, you can?t get Uponor at Home Depot or Lowe?s :(. I made a mistake on one fitting and needed another fitting and of course it was Sunday and Ferguson isn?t open on the weekend. By chance I found a plumber in the parking lot of a local store that caters to electrical and plumbing supplies and he had the fitting I needed and gave it to me for no charge.


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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #93 on: February 24, 2018, 09:22:37 PM »
Jared,

I'm a bit confused about pex and I'm about ready to install the water in the casita.

If I buy pex-b, the trick is buying the same brand ring and same brand fitting?  Is that correct?

I've seen types like Bluefin and sharkbite that look like automotive clamps and some others are solid copper/brass clamps.   I don't want to invest a lot in tools to do maybe 20-30 connections.  I want mechanical crimp connection and not a push fit.

If I stay with the same brand, e.g. the sharkbite that Lowe's carries, same tools and rings and pipe, should I be OK?

Or can you safley mix the base fitting with a different brand ring?  Like Souix Chief , etc?
« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 09:50:17 PM by TexasRedNeck »
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Offline rpar86

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #94 on: February 24, 2018, 09:44:10 PM »
Charles, here?s some reading for ya to start with.

https://www.pexuniverse.com/content/types-of-pex-tubing


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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #95 on: February 24, 2018, 10:04:59 PM »
thanks Ryan.  I read it.  Wondering about fittings and rings.  Seems like everybody and their dog makes fittings

Or for a small job like this should I just use CPVC?
« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 10:16:36 PM by TexasRedNeck »
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Offline Jared Herzog

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #96 on: February 24, 2018, 10:29:53 PM »
I recommend that you go to lowes. Get sharkbite pex. Type b. It is made in the USA. The Apollo pex from H Depot is made in China. Then get the sharkbite crimp tool for clamps. Also made in the USA. Use the stainless clamps. Sharkbite also has a tool that crimps copper rings. They must be checked with the go no go gauge every crimp. They are two different tools. The other tool that crimps the clamps is what i just bought. The copper rings are not rated for burial. The stainless clamps are. That is really the cheapest way to do what you are wanting to do. My tools are sitting here in the truck with me so here is a shot of the tool and clamps. If you will be closer to me near Austin you can borrow my tool. After all my research this is what i got to use when Viega is not possible.

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #97 on: February 24, 2018, 10:34:10 PM »
thanks Jared very helpful.  Can I use the sharkbite crimps on a different brand of fitting? Like everhot or souix chief?
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Offline Jared Herzog

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #98 on: February 24, 2018, 10:36:50 PM »
How i understand it is this. Match the tool to their specific brand and manufacturer of clamp or ring. The pex is all the same ID and OD. Since this is so the fittings are all the same OD. So the tool must match or be calibrated to the clamp or ring being used. The fitting can be any brand so sharkbite or apollo work. I still plan to stick to one brand and not mix and match for my customers warranty purposes and simplicity.
Pex b is the most common. It is easily bought at lowes h depot ace and just about everywhere. Just make sure not to use pex a. I have only seen pex a at the plumbing stores and they do not sell much of it. Uponor makes the outlet stop selling any other brand is what moore supply told me. So they do not carry the uponor brand because of the contractual conflict. Plus the chemical leaching of type a has me concerned since pex b is safe. Pex c is rare. Never seen it. Hope this helps with what i have found to be a very confusing subject from a customer standpoint.

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: The Oracle...Jared's Corner
« Reply #99 on: February 24, 2018, 10:45:17 PM »
Perfect, thanks.  I just don't know that Lowes will carry the exact type of fitting that I need, like a drop ear 3/4 tee with a 1/2 pipe thread.
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

Joshua 6:20-24