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Offline rcampbell

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What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« on: October 23, 2014, 07:14:47 AM »
Looking for a home defense type of shotgun. Thought about maybe an older wingmaster with a new barrel, or a 590A1, any one here prefer one over the other? Or would you recommend anything else? Don't wanna go broke on a Benelli M4, though they are pretty sexy!

Offline BobbyB

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2014, 08:08:17 AM »
Looking for a home defense type of shotgun. Thought about maybe an older wingmaster with a new barrel, or a 590A1, any one here prefer one over the other? Or would you recommend anything else? Don't wanna go broke on a Benelli M4, though they are pretty sexy!

Can't go wrong really with an Remington 870 or a Mossberg 500. You can find used ones when people want something different. That means you can get them for a bit cheaper, and then upgrade them, it's not too hard to find parts for either. Cabela's or Gander Mountain (or any sporting goods store) will have a lot of parts to upgrade, from barrels,stocks,sights,chokes and etc.

My opinion, why spend beaucoup money for something, then not be able to afford the shells to fire it?
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!
your standard grunt level CQB is just putting rounds and rounds on scary stuff till it stops scaring you!

Offline Flyin6

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2014, 08:35:25 AM »
I agree with Bobby

For many decades the US Military only had Mossbergs and Remingtons.

So it got down to where you liked the safety. Remington in a trigger block, located on the trigger housing, and Mossberg on top of the receiver.

Me, Mossberg all the way. I know to find the top of the receiver, push forward and pull trigger
And now there are some aftermarket big ole' honkin replacement safety's that would be hard to miss.

When I trained at BlackWater USA twice for week long shooting instruction, in the shotgun phase, they laid our a table of, you guessed it, Mossberg's and Remington's. During the one I did in February, I would have to shoot, drop, roll, shoot, rack, shoot. I was rolling over frozen puddles that weren't always frozen. The seals there knew which ones weren't and there was no way that a SOAR pilot wasn't going to take a cool bath early in the morning.

I knew it was coming so I always planned for the shotgun to go in the deepest part, keeping some of me out of that stinging cold water. Even though my gun had water, and ice and sand all over and in it, it always fired.

My long gun in the D-Max truck is a Mossberg 930 automatic.

Why automatic? because I learned early on that should you crash something...In my case they were helicopters, in yours, perhaps your car or truck. When that happens a lot of the time you end up breaking something like an arm. So if you have a two handed gun, then you have to train yourself to use it with one hand.
An Automatic uncomplicates all that business...safety-trigger.

So if you go with a pump, I'd suggest you alternately tape your dominant then nondominate arm to your side with some duct tape and shoot, rack, reload and clear malfunctions. Do it until you are comfortable, then switch to the other appendage

Have fun!

I only train a few guns
I already know the M4 series so that's a given
I carried an AK-47 in haji land as well, I know it too
I carried a Mossberg pump shotgun in spec ops, actually this exact one!
I like the Saiga 12 shotgun...I had one custom built for me
And of course the Mossberg 930
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Offline rcampbell

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2014, 10:01:19 AM »
Some excellent points guys, thanks!! I had never considered that one-handedness aspect, but that is really something to think about for sure. I should really read your book, sounds like you have a pretty exciting life so far. I didn't receive much (read, ANY) shotgun training in my few years in the Navy reserve, though I did get a small amount of rifle and pistol.

Would there be any shotgun specific training exercises I could on my own at my local range? I do a lot of medium to long-range rifle shooting every year, with f-tr and precision stuff. But I don't think my 17lb .308 will be much good for self defence :)

Offline Dawg25385

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2014, 10:07:13 AM »
I really am a fan of the Mossberg pump. Here's my 590. 8+1 cap. Magpul stock and foregrip, Elzetta light mount. Next thing i'm going to do is put a saddle, sling, and some better sights... But so far i'm really happy with it.



Edit: this pic was taken right after I put the hardware on... the tac-light is now wayyy further forward, and on the other side of the barrell and tube for easy thumb manipulation since i'm right handed.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 10:09:24 AM by Dawg25385 »
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Offline cudakidd53

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2014, 10:26:17 AM »
Traded my .357's, highly worked wheel guns, for this TAC Mossy. Shooting slugs it'll wack the crap outta ya. I guess 25 at one sitting was too much?  Then turned around and shot sporting clays with it same day and beat my buddy w him using his o/u.  Lol- fun gun, but wicked kicking w/ slugs!
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Offline BobbyB

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2014, 12:55:58 PM »
Would there be any shotgun specific training exercises I could on my own at my local range?

Once you decide on the barrel length (keep a long one for bird hunting or whatnot), and it's set up how YOU like it, and its comfortable to YOU. Acquire 500-1,000 rounds, similar to what you plan on using long term. Proceed to the range and start slow, check the pattern, then start checking the range, but keep it a reasonable distance, utilize all the rounds, doesn't have to be all at once, spread it out.

Acquire more rounds, then start shooting in different positions, weak and strong side, until it becomes second nature. It will take awhile to develop the muscle memory, but it'll come. If you need to change up the ergonomics, swap them, then repeat. Once you are comfortable with your performance, then increase the distance, increase the shell count. Once you feel comfortable, add positions where you have to stand, kneel, squat, prone etc..

You get my point right? It's more of a get to know your shotgun, and get comfortable behind it BEFORE, you start adding movements/obstacles/positions in the mix. Get the simple things down first, then move on.
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!
your standard grunt level CQB is just putting rounds and rounds on scary stuff till it stops scaring you!

Offline rcampbell

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2014, 10:39:55 AM »
So I've been presented with a couple options. I think I'm gonna go with the Mossy, purely because I'm ambidextrous with shoulder held weapons, and the safety would be easier to operate both sides. Is the 590A1 with a bayonet worth the extra $$ (also has 9 shot capacity) or should I get a regular 590A1 with 18.5" barrel and  shot capacity? Don't have the option for a 20" 9 shot'er without bayonet. Is the bayonet just a sales gimick?

Offline BobbyB

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2014, 01:06:24 PM »
Is the bayonet just a sales gimick?

Do you plan on mounting a "bayonet"? Most of that stuff is for the "tacticool" people. Plus, just adds more weight to the front end.
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!
your standard grunt level CQB is just putting rounds and rounds on scary stuff till it stops scaring you!

Offline rcampbell

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2014, 01:23:47 PM »
Yeah that's what I figured. Don't need that crap!

Offline Dawg25385

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2014, 02:09:27 PM »
I mean, a bayonet would be pretty useful for zombies  ;D
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2014, 02:31:19 PM »
I mean, a bayonet would be pretty useful for Liberals  ;D

There ya go, I fixed it!
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Offline Dawg25385

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2014, 03:01:48 PM »
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Offline Bob Smith

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2014, 03:21:21 PM »
Yes we do have a few around alright

Offline rcampbell

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2014, 08:23:48 PM »
Looks like I may be getting two shotguns. Just bought a Wingmaster 870 complete receiver today. Just gotta pick out a stock and barrel for it and I'll be all set. Might even be able to trade a guitar I don't play for a 590A1, good times! I wonder if I should get setup to reload shotgun shells?

Offline BobbyB

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2014, 11:07:44 PM »
I wonder if I should get setup to reload shotgun shells?

Why not, makes range time cheaper. Always a plus.
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!
your standard grunt level CQB is just putting rounds and rounds on scary stuff till it stops scaring you!

Offline Flyin6

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2014, 09:15:00 AM »
Looks like I may be getting two shotguns. Just bought a Wingmaster 870 complete receiver today. Just gotta pick out a stock and barrel for it and I'll be all set. Might even be able to trade a guitar I don't play for a 590A1, good times! I wonder if I should get setup to reload shotgun shells?

I never want to rain on a good guy's parade, but since I do care a word of caution is warranted here

You just picked opposite platforms. Remington: Safety on the trigger, mossy, on receiver top.
The weapon is maybe 25% of the successful combat engagement. A full 50% is divine providence (No such thing as "Luck"). and the remaining 25% is training.

So which one do you want to roll a thousand rounds through? Because if you teach yourself to slide thumb across the top of the receiver then pull the trigger, that is what and ALL that you will remember when you're really scared.

SO you do that, and then you happen to have your Remington...see what I'm saying.

I'd invite you to carefully consider maybe making the Remington into a hunting gun where you are not down to gross motor skills because you might die in the next two seconds and just punch holes in squirrels and ducks with it. Frankly, I'd just trade it for a Mossberg later on, and go with the 590 which is built to be a dirt floor combat gun right out the door of the factory.

Only my 2 cents, and you may very well be that one guy out of a hundred that is a born natural with any platform, and I've worked with those guys. But me, I'd say I approach expert with some platforms, but mostly just a highly trained novice, so I go with safety on top of slide forward. (In my case, make sure the guy is not shouldered backwards), trigger:PULL
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Offline rcampbell

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2014, 02:33:14 PM »
Yes that's a good point for sure. I got thinking that after Bobby suggested I put a couple thousand rounds threw it getting comfortable with. I think what I might do is use the Wingmaster for duck hunting and put a 26" barrel on it, and put the high volume of training rounds through the 590. Ton's of ducks and geese to hunt around here! I'll have to look into what I need to reload as well, I reload a ton of .308 for match purposes now, but I assume almost none of those supplies would carry over to shotgun shell reloading, except maybe the scale.

Offline Flyin6

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2014, 02:43:46 PM »
Good plan for the shotguns
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Offline BobbyB

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2014, 02:47:55 PM »
I got thinking that after Bobby suggested I put a couple thousand rounds threw it getting comfortable with. I think what I might do is use the Wingmaster for duck hunting and put a 26" barrel on it, and put the high volume of training rounds through the 590.

It doesn't take long to swap out the barrels on the Wingmaster, so you can have the 26" for hunting and keep a 18.5-20" barrel for home defense. Once you get it, you can ruggedize the internals/safety and be set. Like Chief said, no need to have 2 types of shotguns if you can do it with one. That's less parts to spend money, less parts to keep track of and keep separate.
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!
your standard grunt level CQB is just putting rounds and rounds on scary stuff till it stops scaring you!

Offline rcampbell

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2014, 06:18:47 PM »
Brand new 590A1 gets here tomorrow! Woo!  It's the 8+1 model with 20" barrel. Anyone use the Magpul SGA stock? Was looking around for upgrades, but who knows, maybe I'll be lucky and it will feel just great as it is.

Offline Dawg25385

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2014, 06:34:30 PM »
Yeah i have it on my 590... it's in the pic on reply 4 on this thread. I like it, it's a heck of a lot better than the pistol grip and stock that were on it when i got it.

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Offline rcampbell

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2014, 07:40:27 PM »
I knew I wasn't going to be getting a pistol grip, never cared for those on a shotgun. You've got the MOE forend too eh? Was that also a worthwhile upgrade? What light do you have and how do you like it? I was never much for all the "tacti-cool" attachments, but I figured a light would be good for a HD weapon, you know, being able to positively identify your target and all. Never used a light before though so not sure what to look for.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2014, 08:43:12 PM by rcampbell »

Offline Dawg25385

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2014, 09:44:04 AM »
Yes I have the for-end too. Basically I got this shotgun on a trade for some other stuff I was trying to get rid of, so dirt cheap basically. The furniture that was on it was awful. Beat up and cheapy, and I knew I was going to change it out. So I went with the Magpul, have tons of their mags, and have ran other products of theirs on my AR with happy results. I do have to say I love the shotgun furniture. Only downer is I can't run the heat shield with the Magpul foregrip... but it was a smidge tacticool anyhow.

As for the light, it's an Elzetta mount. It's the ZSM i think. Great mount, very sturdy. Light is nothing to speak of, it will get replaced soon with a Streamlight, or maybe one of the Elzetta lights.
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2014, 09:43:24 PM »
Don hit it right on the head.  Train with few types of weapons and get really good with them.  I chose the Glock and Remington 870, and the AR platform.

I hadnt considered the injured arm aspect, but I know that in a firefight having 7 rounds might not be enough and with my pump I can move, load and shoot extremely fast.  With a semi, you are out of the fight longer as you re-load.

Regarding training: With a shotgun, being able to selectively deploy the very effective slug on command is important.  Once you get the basics down, being able to slide a slug in the bottom, rack the slde to eject the chambered shell (and chambering the slug) and then get a longer more accurate shot off is a good skill to have.
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Offline rcampbell

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2014, 05:08:10 PM »
Looking forward to starting some training! I wonder would a side saddle be a good addition? Perhaps keep a few slugs in there for when they are needed? I'll definitely get a new butt stock for the 590A1 as I find the length of pull on the factory one to be too long, will likely try the magpul. My old wingmasters are so dang smooth, but I do love that tang safety on the 590A1. What sort of rounds are good for training, and what are good for home defense? I was thinking it would make sense to train with the same rounds I would use "for real". Would reduced recoil 00 buck make sense?

Offline cudakidd53

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2014, 06:13:04 PM »
Depends on make-up of your walls of the house- wood frame and wall board is not going to stop slugs or 00 buck.  If that's what you have, consider who else is in the house you don't want to potentially hit.  I lean towards # 4 bird shot in "3 12g.
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2014, 10:20:16 PM »
Looking forward to starting some training! I wonder would a side saddle be a good addition? Perhaps keep a few slugs in there for when they are needed? I'll definitely get a new butt stock for the 590A1 as I find the length of pull on the factory one to be too long, will likely try the magpul. My old wingmasters are so dang smooth, but I do love that tang safety on the 590A1. What sort of rounds are good for training, and what are good for home defense? I was thinking it would make sense to train with the same rounds I would use "for real". Would reduced recoil 00 buck make sense?
I use cheap dove shot.  At practice distance its going to pattern about like anything else.  You don't need to beat yourself to death practicing.  When the adrenaline gets going you'll never know you're shooting full powered loads.
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Offline rcampbell

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2014, 05:45:08 PM »
Well I finally got some magpul gear for the 590A1, it made a huge difference in how it fits me and how it feels to hold it. Still trying to decide if i want to keep the  ghost ring sights on there all the time, or maybe try something different like a red dot. Would definitely like to get a light for it. Other than that it should be just dandy how it is.

Here's a pic!


Offline Dawg25385

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2014, 05:53:40 PM »
Looks awesome!

Hit me up if you want to get rid of your ghost rings... been on my wish list a while now!
« Last Edit: November 19, 2014, 06:00:35 PM by Dawg25385 »
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #30 on: November 19, 2014, 07:24:09 PM »
Good sights...have them on my 930

I wonder if Mag-pul makes that stock for the 930. With the automatic werkins' it is a whole different animal aft of the receiver than a 500 series...
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #31 on: November 19, 2014, 07:24:29 PM »
Well I finally got some magpul gear for the 590A1, it made a huge difference in how it fits me and how it feels to hold it. Still trying to decide if i want to keep the  ghost ring sights on there all the time, or maybe try something different like a red dot. Would definitely like to get a light for it. Other than that it should be just dandy how it is.

Here's a pic!


Purdy gun
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Offline Dawg25385

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #32 on: November 19, 2014, 07:39:09 PM »
Good sights...have them on my 930

I wonder if Mag-pul makes that stock for the 930. With the automatic werkins' it is a whole different animal aft of the receiver than a 500 series...

Looks like as of now, just the 500/590, and the Rem 870...
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Offline rcampbell

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2014, 07:40:25 PM »
Good sights...have them on my 930

I wonder if Mag-pul makes that stock for the 930. With the automatic werkins' it is a whole different animal aft of the receiver than a 500 series...

Only thing about them is that I'll have to get the cheek piece riser for the magpul stock as my ghost ring sites mount on my pic rail which puts them up pretty high in relation to the comb, but it's no big deal with the right cheek piece.

Offline Flyin6

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2014, 07:54:16 PM »
As a field expedient, wrap the butt stock with a towel to get your head further up

I've even used field dressing (Bandages) before
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Offline Sammconn

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #35 on: November 19, 2014, 09:00:04 PM »
I went with the Mossy 500 tactical tri rail. It's primay purpose was bear defence for domestic 6. She had several run ins while walking dogs. It came down to best bang for buck verses the 870. Pluses it came with 6 position adjustable stock and triple rails on the pump handle. Minuses only a 5 + 1 capacity. I opted for a red dot for simplicity for her which somewhat co witnessed the front bead. However, comma, test fire the gun with the red dot off to learn where it shoots if it does co witness. When the battery dies this is handy as I found at the cabin. I did not do this and the birds that were tormenting our dogs had better odds than they should have.
I just don't want to wind up missing a digit or limb.  I can sometimes get in a hurry to get results.
Sam

Offline Flyin6

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #36 on: November 19, 2014, 09:09:58 PM »
I went with the Mossy 500 tactical tri rail. It's primay purpose was bear defence for domestic 6. She had several run ins while walking dogs. It came down to best bang for buck verses the 870. Pluses it came with 6 position adjustable stock and triple rails on the pump handle. Minuses only a 5 + 1 capacity. I opted for a red dot for simplicity for her which somewhat co witnessed the front bead. However, comma, test fire the gun with the red dot off to learn where it shoots if it does co witness. When the battery dies this is handy as I found at the cabin. I did not do this and the birds that were tormenting our dogs had better odds than they should have.

Good call
12 gage is hard to beat
Which ammo for HH-6?
Slug or 00 buckshot?
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Offline Sammconn

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #37 on: November 19, 2014, 09:23:08 PM »
I do the bear friendly defence load.
1 cracker/banger whatever you wish to call it. Fires about 100 yards and explodes.
2 #2, 3" magnum. Not a killer, but a stinger.
2 1-1/4 slugs.

The theory is try the cracker to scare them away. If that doesn't work, it gets progressively harder on the target/threat.
I just don't want to wind up missing a digit or limb.  I can sometimes get in a hurry to get results.
Sam

Offline cudakidd53

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #38 on: November 20, 2014, 07:19:39 AM »
My reaction to your load order is to eliminate the second round of #2 adding another slug- if the first load of shot doesn't dissuade a bruin, it's gonna get ugly, and slug placement under duress is gonna be iffy as the time distance factor decreases. :-\
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #39 on: November 20, 2014, 09:21:08 AM »
I do the bear friendly defence load.
1 cracker/banger whatever you wish to call it. Fires about 100 yards and explodes.
2 #2, 3" magnum. Not a killer, but a stinger.
2 1-1/4 slugs.

The theory is try the cracker to scare them away. If that doesn't work, it gets progressively harder on the target/threat.
Good enough plan
But
I'd like to see a magazine extension for one more kill round
Ever think of a .50 sabot?
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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #40 on: November 23, 2014, 12:22:33 PM »
My reaction to your load order is to eliminate the second round of #2 adding another slug- if the first load of shot doesn't dissuade a bruin, it's gonna get ugly, and slug placement under duress is gonna be iffy as the time distance factor decreases. :-\
Our local flavour is the black bear. Typically non confrontational. Hence the two #2's.
As well we have a large wolf population which is a secondary reason for two pellet loads.
I'm not opposed to more kill loads, but conservation officials may see it as too aggressive if I did a different loadout.
If I was further north and the great white bears were predominant I likely would have opted for the higher capacity 870 and tricked it up.
I just don't want to wind up missing a digit or limb.  I can sometimes get in a hurry to get results.
Sam

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #41 on: November 23, 2014, 12:31:52 PM »
I do the bear friendly defence load.
1 cracker/banger whatever you wish to call it. Fires about 100 yards and explodes.
2 #2, 3" magnum. Not a killer, but a stinger.
2 1-1/4 slugs.

The theory is try the cracker to scare them away. If that doesn't work, it gets progressively harder on the target/threat.
Good enough plan
But
I'd like to see a magazine extension for one more kill round
Ever think of a .50 sabot?
I'm looking for a mag extension, and may have to get one made up from a buddy.
Having real difficulties finding a Mossy extension. I am a bit ignorant to if a 590 one would fit, I think I did see one of those. We are really lacking in gun accessories in this part of the world. But it is very high on my needs list.

As for the sabot rounds, I was completely unaware of their 12 ga application, and am interested about them.
I do own a muzzleloader and the sabots for them are smooth. Are the 12 ga variants rifled? With a smooth bore, I think they would not be so good without rotation.
I just don't want to wind up missing a digit or limb.  I can sometimes get in a hurry to get results.
Sam

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #42 on: November 23, 2014, 01:40:08 PM »
Those 12 gage sabot are nasty. I can say the military has interest in those rounds. They were good for killing a target who thought he was safe on the other side of a cinder block wall which is a common wall structure in south America or other places.

I'd say it will get a bear thinking the right thing if you need one to cease and desist

Those rounds were good for engine blocks as well to immediately stop a car or truck.

Wicked on your shoulder though, I'd be prepared for the recoil and I don't think I'd ever use a scope or holographic sight on a weapon firing that round as it will likely get into your eye if you aren't a stout person. For a woman, I'd have to say only in a very serious situation.

Here's your mag extensions:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2545116181/nordic-components-magazine-tube-extension-assembly-mossberg-590-930-935-12-gauge-matte
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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #43 on: December 05, 2014, 01:42:00 PM »
As one of 2 or 3 states left in the US that does not allow peasants to use rifles to kill deer I am familiar with these rounds. The sabot slugs have a plastic sleeve that encases the slug & runs down the barrel which catches on the rifling of a shotgun spinning the sabot increasing its accuracy at least two fold. I have watched large bodied bucks be dropped at 150 yards with these rounds in 12ga. Not to be confused with rifled slugs which are to be fired form a smooth bore shotgun and are not near as accurate over distance. I personally have two different shotguns I can hit a paper plate at 100+ yards with using the sabots in Winchester Super X 3" long version. Don is correct no matter what gun you use or how heavy it is these will knock your shoulder around, I'm broad shouldered and 6'3" not to be mistaken with any lightweight. I also have a couple 10ga goose guns and these recoil harder than either of those. I do however run scopes with a decent eye relief on both and have had it brush my eye brow (never cut or bruised me) more than once so you do need to understand what it's capabilities are. Also agreeing with Don you load up a drum on a siaga 12 and run some slugs into the same spot a few times the guy on the other side of said object is gunna get excited........


I do the bear friendly defence load.
1 cracker/banger whatever you wish to call it. Fires about 100 yards and explodes.
2 #2, 3" magnum. Not a killer, but a stinger.
2 1-1/4 slugs.

The theory is try the cracker to scare them away. If that doesn't work, it gets progressively harder on the target/threat.
Good enough plan
But
I'd like to see a magazine extension for one more kill round
Ever think of a .50 sabot?
I'm looking for a mag extension, and may have to get one made up from a buddy.
Having real difficulties finding a Mossy extension. I am a bit ignorant to if a 590 one would fit, I think I did see one of those. We are really lacking in gun accessories in this part of the world. But it is very high on my needs list.

As for the sabot rounds, I was completely unaware of their 12 ga application, and am interested about them.
I do own a muzzleloader and the sabots for them are smooth. Are the 12 ga variants rifled? With a smooth bore, I think they would not be so good without rotation.
Living in the remote north hoping Ken doesn’t bring H up here any time soon…..

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #44 on: December 05, 2014, 08:38:51 PM »
I like Shawn, live in another of said states requiring slugs- Sabots in my 11-87 w/ scope and fully rifled barrel are the ticket for many a large "critter" at range.  3" slugs are the most accurate in my set-up, so I have to eat the recoil beast.

My Mossy 930 kicks worse with 2 1/2" 12g than the Remington with 3"; neither is a "joy" to shoot, but manageable and better than a "dirt nap".

Without a rifled barrel or at least a rifled choke insert, Sabots in a smooth bore will tumble quickly upon exiting the barrel- I speculate that spin helps shuck the plastic sleeves simultaneously; without spin they could stick unevenly.

Every deer I've shot with them had full penetration and pass through- 200lbs.+.  They work!
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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #45 on: December 05, 2014, 09:34:12 PM »
Well I'm probably stuck with the rifled slugs. That was my thoughts with the sabot slugs, same as my muzzleloader. My 500 is the 18 inch with improved cylinder choke. Have not even looked, but don't think I can change the choke on it. I like the mobility the short barrel affords, so I really don't think I'll change much with it. But may still look for some of the sabot slugs to try, and post an update on effectiveness with the smooth barrel if I can get a hold of some.
I just don't want to wind up missing a digit or limb.  I can sometimes get in a hurry to get results.
Sam

Offline Flyin6

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #46 on: December 05, 2014, 10:35:54 PM »
I've shot them out of an improved cylinder smooth bore. Seem to work just fine, but I don't shoot much past 50 feet.
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Offline cudakidd53

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Re: What shotgun do you guys prefer?
« Reply #47 on: December 06, 2014, 07:41:26 AM »
I've shot them out of an improved cylinder smooth bore. Seem to work just fine, but I don't shoot much past 50 feet.

Given that range, yes they'd work just fine.  Heck, at that range, the person pulling the trigger doesn't hear the bang even, by the time the target is hit!  I'd speculate that the cinder block does a fine job of removing the plastic sleeves!  ;D
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"When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. Hence, dealing with this fact is not difficult. It is only hard for those still living around you.....It's the same when you're stupid."

 

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