Steel!

[Flyin6]

For everyone who has been watching the overland camper build I have going on. It has come time to figure out what the frame will be made of. That will be the purpose of this thread.

So the general layout is of a steel ladder type frame to support a camper weighing 3,000 lbs give or take. The size of the camper box is 6' wide by 12 feet long. On the rear of the thing will be a wishbone shaped spare tire carrier and the front will consist of a centered beam running up to the hitch with two angular side beams

So getting right to it, what size/type material should I be looking at?

2" X 3" X .120 wall ???
3" X 3" X .083"?  or .120" wall""
Other???

[TexasRedNeck]

Not sure but given that you plan taking it some rough places I’d plan on a little torque tube down the middle. Over kill but it will keep a lot of stress off the wood superstructure. My .02


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[stlaser]

Don, my trailer (3500# single axle) is 2x3 .120 wall and I’ve had over 3500# on the frame. It does have 2x2 sq tube up about 16” running down both sides and front. So I think those side rails help act as a truss. Anyhow I’ve bent the heck out of the floor and the expanded metal drop down gate but that frame is tough.

[Bob Smith]

I would go with a 2X4 frame. You don't want to bend or crack the frame on that thing bouncing down the road.

[Sammconn]

I’m with Bob. And probably either wall thickness at 2x4.

[Flyin6]

Wow, 2 X 4!

That's substantial, getting into over-overkill.

Now a consideration with going to 2X4 is all that added weight, and that ought to be a primary consideration right below strength

But lets look at this thing as an assembly, not just a frame supporting a flimsy box. The monocoque camper hell is hellishly strong. I could probably bolt the wheels directly to the bottom and I'll bet it would survive. Kist today Duane and I were looking at some joints and both of us agree, they are very strong.

The strength of the box will work to stiffen the steel frame and the steel will make the box even more rigid. This frame will not just carry weight, it will be part of the overall strength the "Assembly" can carry

[Bigdave_185]

Are you doing solid mount axles or leaf spring? 



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[Flyin6]

Are you doing solid mount axles or leaf spring? 



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Independent trailing arms mounted in rubber blocks

[Flyin6]

These:

[stlaser]

Don, what brand? Those the ones built north of the border?

[KensAuto]

I'm with Bob and Sam. You can use thinner wall 2x4... will be more rigid, without adding weight.

[stlaser]

It’s not a house...... 

[Bob Smith]

And a house doesn't go through nearly as much abuse. 


Don are you going to put the corrugated plastic sheeting on the bottom of the trailer to help keep the wood dry.

[stlaser]

And a house doesn't go through nearly as much abuse. 

Ever live in WY? 

[Flyin6]

Don, what brand? Those the ones built north of the border?

Timbren

Ontario, CA

[Flyin6]

And a house doesn't go through nearly as much abuse. 


Don are you going to put the corrugated plastic sheeting on the bottom of the trailer to help keep the wood dry.

Bob,

Hadn't planned to, you think it is necessary?

The sealing plan is down to 1st coat: Primer Second coat, Epoxy paint. Final coat, Raptor bed liner, two coats

I read some on the boat builder forums. They claim they can waterproof plywood with primer and epoxy porch paint. They claim is is elastic enough, abrasion resistant, and those who test it show very little to no barrier penetration by water.

Boats get jostled around a bunch. They suffer abuse and exposure to the sun. They, by design, also rest on top of water. I feel covering all that with the real deal urethane bed liner will make a lifetime waterproofing. Everything I read confirms that theory.

[stlaser]

Don, what brand? Those the ones built north of the border?

Timbren

Ontario, CA

 

 

[Flyin6]

On this subject, I would have already purchased them except that as with everything mine is a special requirement

I plan to purchase the 3500 lb axle with the 4" lift. I plan to obviously equip that with a hub and electric brake assembly.

But here is where it gets tricky

The 3500 lb axle calls for a 5 lug hub/brake

I, however, want to run 8 on 6.5" hubs with the associated brakes. I do not know if the 8-lug hubs will still fit the 3500 lb spindles. Or maybe someone could supply me with the 3500 axle assembly, but with the 8 lug bolt on spindle assembly.

I feel confident i can solve this, but so far I'm at the "I need to get one of my techs on it to figure this out" stage dealing with operator like sales people.

Ass said I should be able to get this all done in the $1100 ish arena and have one hugely cool and capable suspension package with, what, 20"-24" ground clearance under the thing!!!!!!!!!

[Bob Smith]

Maybe a call to Dexter Axle is in order.

[Sammconn]

Yes. Call a trailer or axle manufacturer.
The place I got my car trailer axles from can order an 8k tube with 3500 spindles or vice versa.
Now to get what you’re after may be a bit more difficult.
But someone somewhere has to make an 8 on 6.5 that fits a 3500 stub.

[TexasRedNeck]

Im confused  Big D.  You already have the torsion axles but you are going to order a 3500lb axle with a lift?

  You can get custom adapters made if you need to adapt a different wheel, or just get a heavier axle in a standard configuration with the 8 lug hub.  Not much more weight and it won't hurt a thing to have a heavier axle with better brakes.

https://www.etrailer.com/dept-pg-Trailer_Axles-pc-8_on_6%7E1%7C2.aspx

[Bob Smith]

Don doesn't need to worry about brakes, the wheels are only going to be touching the ground 25% of the time anyway once he tunes up the Chevy.

[Flyin6]

Im confused  Big D.  You already have the torsion axles but you are going to order a 3500lb axle with a lift?

  You can get custom adapters made if you need to adapt a different wheel, or just get a heavier axle in a standard configuration with the 8 lug hub.  Not much more weight and it won't hurt a thing to have a heavier axle with better brakes.

https://www.etrailer.com/dept-pg-Trailer_Axles-pc-8_on_6%7E1%7C2.aspx

Red,
Not using those axles

And I think that solving my need may be as simple as sliding the 8-lug hub onto the 3500 spindle. Bearings look close. If they's de same, I'm cookin with bacon grease!

[Flyin6]

Don doesn't need to worry about brakes, the wheels are only going to be touching the ground 25% of the time anyway once he tunes up the Chevy.

;-))

[Flyin6]

So back to the frame discussion

Shawn recommends 2" X 3" and I am assuming he is suggesting .125 wall (7 gage??)

He is a steel expert and that carries weight

(Get it...steel...carries weight...;-)

The rest of the opinions trend toward 2" X 4" in any wall thickness.

I wouldn't feel comfortable with thin wall stuff because a few years of rust could kill the thing. Thicker steels last a lot longer

I am not going to go with a thicker 2" X 4" because of the weight

So I guess I'll just build my frame out of wood!

I'll get some good stuff, as few knots as possible. Maybe cover it in shellac and honey suckle extract or something exotic like that

Cool, problem solved!

[stlaser]

So back to the frame discussion

Shawn recommends 2" X 3" and I am assuming he is suggesting .125 wall (7 gage??)

He is a steel expert and that carries weight

(Get it...steel...carries weight...;-)

The rest of the opinions trend toward 2" X 4" in any wall thickness.

I wouldn't feel comfortable with thin wall stuff because a few years of rust could kill the thing. Thicker steels last a lot longer

I am not going to go with a thicker 2" X 4" because of the weight

So I guess I'll just build my frame out of wood!

I'll get some good stuff, as few knots as possible. Maybe cover it in shellac and honey suckle extract or something exotic like that

Cool, problem solved!

These are all approximate and there is a range of tolerance for each, but off top of my head
12ga is .100
11ga is .125
10ga is .135
8ga is .156
7ga is .187

If it were mine and the fact the camper itself is a rigid structural piece I would do 2x3 x 11ga

However, I will give it to you that a pilut will be towing this so you had better jump up to 4x6 x 3/8 wall

[TexasRedNeck]

Im confused  Big D.  You already have the torsion axles but you are going to order a 3500lb axle with a lift?

  You can get custom adapters made if you need to adapt a different wheel, or just get a heavier axle in a standard configuration with the 8 lug hub.  Not much more weight and it won't hurt a thing to have a heavier axle with better brakes.

https://www.etrailer.com/dept-pg-Trailer_Axles-pc-8_on_6%7E1%7C2.aspx

Red,
Not using those axles

And I think that solving my need may be as simple as sliding the 8-lug hub onto the 3500 spindle. Bearings look close. If they's de same, I'm cookin with bacon grease!

I would be shocked if 3500 and 7000 lb axle bearings were the same. But I have been known to be wrong. However I have never admitted to it.


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[stlaser]

These:

Looks as if spindle unbolts....... build your own and bolt it on....... 

[stlaser]

Im confused  Big D.  You already have the torsion axles but you are going to order a 3500lb axle with a lift?

  You can get custom adapters made if you need to adapt a different wheel, or just get a heavier axle in a standard configuration with the 8 lug hub.  Not much more weight and it won't hurt a thing to have a heavier axle with better brakes.

https://www.etrailer.com/dept-pg-Trailer_Axles-pc-8_on_6%7E1%7C2.aspx

Red,
Not using those axles

And I think that solving my need may be as simple as sliding the 8-lug hub onto the 3500 spindle. Bearings look close. If they's de same, I'm cookin with bacon grease!

I would be shocked if 3500 and 7000 lb axle bearings were the same. But I have been known to be wrong. However I have never admitted to it.


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I’d be extremely surprised too

[stlaser]

Don, buy these and bolt the heavier spindles on.....

https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Leaf-Spring-Suspension/Timbren/TSR3500S04.html

[KensAuto]

From my experience there's 2 most common sizes of bearings and seals on trailers. Small and large. ..3500 and 7000

[Flyin6]

Don, buy these and bolt the heavier spindles on.....

https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Leaf-Spring-Suspension/Timbren/TSR3500S04.html

That gave me an idea

Buy the 3500 lb suspension, but substitute the 7K spindles which apparently just bolt on. I think we can get this thing done without too much fuss.

[stlaser]

Yeah, maybe they would charge you a fee and do it for you? I spoke to Timbren about being a dealer a few years ago. They seemed eager to do business. The venture never took off and I did not follow through.

[Flyin6]

Problem solved

I called the good folks in the Canada and they steered me right to the korrekt part numbas.

Turns out they have a 3500HD assembly. It is built from thicker material and features softer rubber springs for mo-betterer articulation. They use the 7K spindles and I chased all that with an electric brake/parking brake and 8 on 6.5" bolt circle

How koul is that?

Oh and they have a standard, 2" drop, 2" lift and a 4" lift

I opted for the 4" lift

ASR35HDS05   Axle assemblee

501032PRH/LH  Brake/Hub assemblies

To ma door $1220

[Bob Smith]

Heavy duty axle with light duty frame. As long as it works for you life is good.

[Flyin6]

Oh, forgot to mention I got some vanadium wood screws to securely attach the HD suspension to the wood frame!

[JR]

Don and axles again, what could go wrong here? Wait, he asked for advice 1st and got the right parts.

I like the 2x4 min 125 wall. Less burn through and really not that much heavier (just two 1x.125 wall is all your adding) and when has heavier been a problem with your builds?

As you finish the frame, use this inside;https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-internal-frame-coating-14oz-aerosol.html

[Flyin6]

Don and axles again, what could go wrong here? Wait, he asked for advice 1st and got the right parts.

I like the 2x4 min 125 wall. Less burn through and really not that much heavier (just two 1x.125 wall is all your adding) and when has heavier been a problem with your builds?

As you finish the frame, use this inside;https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-internal-frame-coating-14oz-aerosol.html

I use something like that sprayed out of a 4' long tube with a 360 degree nozzle

[Flyin6]

Just to bring this thread to a close, I went with 2" X 4", 11 gage (.120" wall)