Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”

[stlaser]

Well, last time I checked the ATF already covered that these weren’t illegal (not on one occasion but two separate times I believe). So if you want to ban something then maybe you should try and write a law to do so. Thank you NRA & for the record Trump ain’t king.......

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02-20/trump-tells-sessions-ban-bump-stocks

[KensAuto]

I think that the only thing they should ban is leftists owning guns. :)

[stlaser]

Until they can figure out how to write a piece of legislation to protect our schools I ain’t for giving them anything. End of discussion

[Bob Smith]

So Shawn, where exactly do you stand on this? You can not have it both ways. I think the bump stock being legal is going in the wrong direction to be considered worth fighting for. I don't want my 2nd rights to go away, but still have to look at real problems. I won't be handing over my mags or rifles, but do think there is middle ground we can work with. If I can not buy an auto rifle without paying a premium , why should I be able to buy a bump stock and end up damn close to the same result.

[Bob Smith]

There is already a law that forbids bringing a gun onto school property, how is that working now?

[stlaser]

Bob, let me be clearer. When I say write a piece of legislation to protect our schools I’m not asking for more of that gun free zone crap. They can figure out how to guard court houses and stadiums and anything else that they actually want to protect. So there’s that.....

As far as bump stocks they are a joke honestly, a novelty. The one crime they were supposedly used in we have no evidence to back up that theory. How long ago was that now? Oh wait, FBI is handling that too. I’m sure the Russians election narrative investigation took precedence...... insert eye roll

So for me to give these retards an inch more to make them feel warmer and fuzzier until the next time a liberal democratic nut job on a psychotropic drug decides to terrorize another soft target is utter nonsense.

[cudakidd53]

As I said to one of my classes today, this is a PEOPLE problem and NOT an object problem.  Airplanes, pressure cookers, vests full of explosives and ball bearings; without a person misusing them with evil intent, they cannot generally injure others.

Befriend the “strange” kid, I told them - if everyone in schools did that I think those on the fringes would become less prone to lash out.  More attention, more professional mental health services AND more active interventions that mandate treatment for those types of people across society is where the reaction to this problem needs to be focused.

God, Family, Morality, Consequences and Love of our Neighbors....these are once commonplace and the norm; today they are not.......as these decline, violence and tragedies have increased.

[stlaser]

Here’s an idea, prior to moving to CO we looked at moving to east Texas. One of the schools we drove by on our visit had a sign along the road much larger than this one in this article.

https://legalinsurrection.com/2018/02/texas-school-sign-staff-armed-and-trained-to-protect-students-with-deadly-force-if-necessary/amp/

So the fed guberment likes being in charge of education. Why can’t they mandate every public school has these signs posted and back it up with armed administrators and or teachers who have been trained? Not rocket science.

[TexasRedNeck]

Gotta love Texas.  Laws won’t change anything. People breaking the law won’t suddenly start obeying. Only a good person with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun. The sooner we understand that the sooner we can get to the business of making a difference. 


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[Superwhdm]

Gotta love Texas.  Laws won’t change anything. People breaking the law won’t suddenly start obeying. Only a good person with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun. The sooner we understand that the sooner we can get to the business of making a difference. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This^

What the left and Libs dont like to talk about is Chicago and LA and anyonther place that has strict gun laws.  They fail.  What wil gun control do here.  Definition of insanity-recreating the same cause expecting a different effect.

[KensAuto]

You bring up Chicago and they imediately say "but, the guns come across state lines". Yeah, I'm pretty sure Indiana has fed background checks as well.
So, what they're really saying is "Chicago banned guns, so now the crooks have to steal them elsewhere."

[stlaser]

You bring up Chicago and they imediately say "but, the guns come across state lines". Yeah, I'm pretty sure Indiana has fed background checks as well.
So, what they're really saying is "Chicago banned guns, so now the crooks have to steal them elsewhere."

Ken my local ffl was a large broker. Possibly largest in IN, he was also my neighbor (his store was a vault compromised of a the full basement of his 4K ft house even had concrete ceiling in it. Anyhow, the young atf guys from Chicago often called him to harass him. He didn’t take crap from them. Most of the crime was criminal on criminal. He would ask them how many criminals the atf agent had shot with his service pistol? As you can guess usually zero, ffl would then inform him I just did you a favor......

[KensAuto]

I just got in a YouTube fight with some guy that called me all kinds of names because I told him it was Federal law for a gun dealer to run background checks, no matter what state. He kept arguing that Louisiana was different and you could buy long guns (ARs) there without background, because it was state law. Smh

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[stlaser]

I just got in a YouTube fight with some guy that called me all kinds of names because I told him it was Federal law for a gun dealer to run background checks, no matter what state. He kept arguing that Louisiana was different and you could buy long guns (ARs) there without background, because it was state law. Smh

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

You know the rules we need pics or better yet a video

[Flyin6]

All of this is a (lack of) God problem

Until America gets its morality back there is no way we will ever secure schools, protect kids or whatever
The evil that a man is capable of is beyond our imagination.

America has lost its way with respect to following God. A great deal of America does not believe he even exists. Another sizable chunk are people I call cowards. I call any man who will not stand up for what is right, a coward. Too many men, people who could be good men hold a belief in their hearts. But their rubber hearts are pumping jelly, not red blood. Behind their beliefs is little to no conviction. Yea some of them go to church once in awhile. I and my team have the responsibility of guarding them while they worship. Then afterward, they go their way and seek a path of no resistance where they would not have to confront evil. Would they engage a mouthy punk on a bus saying God-Dam-it? No, they would sit quietly in their place hoping the guy would get off the bus so that peace would return.

But not all of us. Personally, a bus ride is a place of danger. Hit a bump and get jostled and I might accidentally give him a bracial stun while reaching to stabilize myself...poor punk!

Am I suggesting you actually do something like that??? Of course! Feels great, you should try it! I had the opportunity to pound a loud mouth punk into the ground in front of his friends some years ago...I felt great afterward.

OK, this thread is not about violence, or is it?? I'm saying you can't regulate evil. You have to stop evil. Evil will grow in the shadows like the rust in that cheap jeep of Shawn's. It will come out as a stage 4 cancer in someone we thought was healthy. You have to kill evil at its source. You have to take a stand, by the millions. Say things like, "I do not support gay marriage, or gay anything except for happiness. Push it back. Be prepared to make your point against those haters who will come out. But make your stand on God's word. It cuts deep my friends. Ever have someone call you out on a biblical basis? What defense did you have for that?...Exactly!

Fight or prepare to defend, that's about your choices.

Bump-fire stocks??? Why are we even talking about them? The problem here was with a broken law enforcement system failing to respond to valid reports of a wacko. The problem was with politically correct people unwilling to say, that kid is nuts and should be evaluated. The problem was with a broken system where that kid grew up with no fatherly guidance except for a social welfare version of it.

Broken families are the root of so many problems. Not guns. Lack of a good father is just disseminating inner city black communities. I know, I used to go down there weekly and try and feed them and talk to them about Jesus. Black females in crowded cities having too many children that we can plainly see are nothing more than farming a crop of welfare kids, that's a problem. Get those kids into a church and you just cured that problem, and turned it into a cure.

I'd say vilify the fathers of seven children from seven different mothers. Can I say it??? Can I say those dads are a worthless piece of crap? The Christian in me used to say love them. Now it cautions me to sow seeds then when they abandon the word, to pull all aid/help from them for they will trample on pearls like swine says the bible.

The problem is people not following God. Not a stock, a gun make, or length of the barrel, it's in the total abandonment of moral character of the people who can use them. And for that reason we of moral fiber need guns.

[KensAuto]

You know the rules we need pics or better yet a video

Pics of what?

[stlaser]

You know the rules we need pics or better yet a video

Pics of what?

The altercation or whatever took place between you & a u tuber.....

[stlaser]

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02-21/trump-strongly-considering-concealed-carry-schools

[Nate]

I just got in a YouTube fight with some guy that called me all kinds of names because I told him it was Federal law for a gun dealer to run background checks, no matter what state. He kept arguing that Louisiana was different and you could buy long guns (ARs) there without background, because it was state law. Smh

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So that would explain why the jack arse from sons of guns is now doing life in prison for child molestation of little girls to include his own daughter.........and yet he preached how he was a "MARINE" and how he was the greatest gun builder/seller/developer/restorer that there ever was.

Good on you for not driving down to that swamp and bitch slapping him. .....lol

[stlaser]

I just got in a YouTube fight with some guy that called me all kinds of names because I told him it was Federal law for a gun dealer to run background checks, no matter what state. He kept arguing that Louisiana was different and you could buy long guns (ARs) there without background, because it was state law. Smh

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

So that would explain why the jack arse from sons of guns is now doing life in prison for child molestation of little girls to include his own daughter.........and yet he preached how he was a "MARINE" and how he was the greatest gun builder/seller/developer/restorer that there ever was.

Good on you for not driving down to that swamp and bitch slapping him. .....lol

 

[KensAuto]

Shawn, just him going around in circles posting like 10 times to my 2 times, oh, and calling me a f*** face. He's even posted 2 more times since I last checked, telling me that Louisiana law supersedes fed, again.
I would link, but don't want to share my utube handle.

[stlaser]

Ken, I tend to agree with him.

State rights should supersede fed rights, however we both know that’s not correct in this case.

[KensAuto]

Yeah state should override, but with guns, atf don't play those games.


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[stlaser]

Yeah state should override, but with guns, atf don't play those games.


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So what happens when the fed passes some 2nd amendment bill & say a dozen pro 2A states decide to become 2A sanctuary states?

[KensAuto]

Google"Montana Firearms Freedom Act" to see how that works out. ;P

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[stlaser]

Google"Montana Firearms Freedom Act" to see how that works out. ;P

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Exactly! 

[OldKooT]

I own a LOT of guns. Probably more than most of you honestly. Not at all bragging, just for reference to what I am about to type.
Lets entertain a "reality" conversation.

FACT: We have a population in this country of mentally ill people walking around with weapons.
FACT: We sell mentally unwell people rifles such as an AR at Wal mart, bass pro similar places.
FACT: The idiots selling these weapons are in many cases also unstable.
FACT: We have gun manufactures making it easier and easier to acquire weapons of such nature.
FACT: The ATF back round check is a joke.
FACT: Most states you can buy a AR 15, some 30 round mags, and 1000 round of ammo from a non ATF approved "employee" of a box store at 18 years of age.
FACT: that same kid can't buy some cold meds at that same store.
FACT: high capacity shotguns also can be bought at these stores.
FACT: Gun manufactures are skirting ATF rules that are outdated and based on these technical loop holes are arming "idiots" across our nation... suppose that's an accident?
FACT: One of the most powerful lobbies in DC is supporting this based on the idiocy of peoples fears of being unarmed.
FACT: There are solutions of common sense to many of the above issues that do not in any way infringe on our rights.
FACT: nothing we do regarding guns will stop what happened at that school in Florida from happening again is a BS statement.  That logic is that of the activist minded.

Solutions.....

FACT: requiring all gun sales to be conducted between a FFL holder and a customer is not going to restrict your rights in any way. It just means you can't buy a weapon at Wal Mart anymore...Each and every transaction by law would be required to be done by an actual FFL holder... NOT an employee, unless said employee has a FFL.

All FFL holders need to pass a basic "Psyche" course that may help "slow" nutters acquiring weapons. Sure couldn't hurt.

To purchase a weapon you MUST face to face apply for a purchase permit from trained law enforcement. Nebraska has done this with handguns and it causes no issues. And likely does "catch" a few who should not own weapons.
"Most" gun shops in this state/pawn shops included will not even sell you a weapon of any sort unless you have that permit. Guess what....walmart could care less. They rely on that failed ATF back round check.

Would it be a problem to have all weapons with a magazine capacity of more than 3 require a unique purchase permit? I don't see why it would.

Lets make these permits expire every two years. We go to the DMV and renew our privilege to drive, why can't we do the same regarding buying weapons? We require you pass a eye test to drive a car, but not shoot a gun?

Lets require all private party transfers to be done through a FFL That way both parties have a purchase permit? Seems very simple, and causes zero actual problems. I have actually done this for years now...it's not a restriction, it's responsible.

Lets put a serial number on the AR's bolt carrier group. Sales/transfer require a FFL. Or if that bothers the ghost gunners then lets require that purchase permit to buy ammo/gun parts. That way they can own their home built weapons legally, but still have to be screened.

I can't see any violation of any "right" in the above ideas. I am sure they may "help" reduce such things as society is dealing with. I believe a ounce of common sense says gun owners and sec amendment supporters should themselves bring ideas to congress such as the above. That in itself would send a powerful message of "responsibility" to America. It says we see there are problems, we see solutions that fit within our constitution and we are advocating these changes.

The upside to this is in the process we could protect our rights. We could possibly achieve constitutional carry, we could get states to back off their Nazi restrictions (Cali) done correctly we could eliminate then gun free zones/cities... and thus we WOULD be most certainly be able to look our kids in the face and say....we did well.

The LAST thing the left expects is gun owners fighting for a safer America through common damn sense.

[BobbyB]

Lets put a serial number on the AR's bolt carrier group.

Why? So if some part of a BCG part breaks you'll need to get approved to buy a new $xx.xx part? Just making conversation here.

[OldKooT]

Bobby that's a valid point..I recently just ruined one myself actually. I went to the gun shop and purchased another one. It would have taken me exactly 5 extra seconds to show my purchase permit or concealed carry (which works the same way in Nebraska) to buy the part.

I can purchase a weapon the same way, that concealed carry permit or my gun "purchase permit" which one or the other is required to buy a handgun here, allows me to buy a weapon such as say a handgun as fast as I can fill out the FFL form and hand em the $$$$. No ATF background check is required. In Neb if say your convicted of a felony you are required to surrender your permit at such time. The theory being then the ATF background check should "catch" the felony record and deny a sale.

I have personally seen that system fail as the ATF does not update daily (likely impossible at this time) so a felon gets his/her weapon. A better approach would be the pre screening of requiring a purchase permit for any sale, thus allowing a actually simpler more stream lined, and likely better system.

They system we have in Neb is not perfect....it could be improved easily. The reason I suspect it hasn't been is largely the box stores don't use it anyway so.... it's not going to matter how well they screen the law abiding people, They  are not the issue anyway.

[Bob Smith]

"Lets require all private party transfers to be done through a FFL That way both parties have a purchase permit? Seems very simple, and causes zero actual problems. I have actually done this for years now...it's not a restriction, it's responsible"


Norm, Wash. State has a law very similar now that requires all transfers to go through a FFL. Sounds good except I need to now pay a FFL fee, pay sales tax, make a trip to the FFL, to pass a gun onto a friend or child. The other problem with that is the new law is not being enforced.

[BobbyB]

Bobby that's a valid point..I recently just ruined one myself actually. I went to the gun shop and purchased another one. It would have taken me exactly 5 extra seconds to show my purchase permit or concealed carry (which works the same way in Nebraska) to buy the part.

I can purchase a weapon the same way, that concealed carry permit or my gun "purchase permit" which one or the other is required to buy a handgun here, allows me to buy a weapon such as say a handgun as fast as I can fill out the FFL form and hand em the $$$$. No ATF background check is required. In Neb if say your convicted of a felony you are required to surrender your permit at such time. The theory being then the ATF background check should "catch" the felony record and deny a sale.

I have personally seen that system fail as the ATF does not update daily (likely impossible at this time) so a felon gets his/her weapon. A better approach would be the pre screening of requiring a purchase permit for any sale, thus allowing a actually simpler more stream lined, and likely better system.

They system we have in Neb is not perfect....it could be improved easily. The reason I suspect it hasn't been is largely the box stores don't use it anyway so.... it's not going to matter how well they screen the law abiding people, They  are not the issue anyway.

So take it a bit further and look at it like this. Most states don't recognize other states concealed carry permits, so in this situation certain states might/won't recognize your Nebraska permit to buy parts; unless its a national initiative. You go visit a friend or whatnot and bring your rifle, you break a BCG part and have to buy one as you can't find the spare part in your gear box; however it's not possible as you don't have a permit that's recognized by that state . You borrow one from someone or they give you one, then in effect you and the other person just broke a law, by not utilizing an approved FFL to facilitate the transfer of a serial numbered permit controlled item, which would make you both felons.

[stlaser]

Norm, although I may agree with some of the finer points of your argument I have to disagree in whole. The fail in your logic is you want one side to come to the table using common sense and offer up a piece or part that the other unlogical side can then potentially use to further restrict us down the road. This reminds me of the assault weapon ban of the 90’s that did nothing to actually prevent anything.

[OldKooT]

Bob.... that "tax" is your state being greedy. There is ZERO reason why we can't have diff levels of FFL transfers.

Say as an example passing a gun to a child. Show ID "proof" of said relation and pay a set fee.. $10 maybe to cover said paper work and as long as that child has a purchase permit it's done in 5 minutes at little cost to anyone. I'd happily pay $10 to pass along weapons....why does it have to even be per gun?

[stlaser]

On another note if the side lacking common sense wants to actually call an ace an ace and a spade a spade we might be able to have dialogue.

Thinking addressing psychoactive drug issue ie: manufacturers of them & opening several dozen insane asylums.......

However, since the first statement will not happen I think it’s a moot point.

[OldKooT]

Are you suggesting that the "smart" people who possess common sense can't out think the ones you fear?

Fearing an attack on your rights is hardly how you defend them. An attack raise the call to arms..the requirement to fight, the battle won by those that fight smart, not in fear.

MOST attacks levied against our right to bare arms fall directly inline with the complete lack of common sense regarding that exact topic.

Felons. mentally ill, they don't HAVE the right to own/or be in the company of weapons now by law. We just need to enforce laws we have that are NOT being enforced. And guess what....the NRA is the force behind them NOT being enforced. That makes them the enemy of YOUR right to bare arms. Do you believe the stock holders, company officials and such of these gun manufactures are defending your rights? They are not.... they are eroding them to sell more product. Possibly to even cause the loss of the "right" or more restrictions thus allowing them to charge even more of a premium.

Study Mr Browning, one of the true enemies of the Sec Amendment and thus the people.
Ask yourself if you have any real way to know who got wealthy off the most recent surge in sales due to that school shooting? The stockholders did.... America lost our wealth in those children's future.

We need to develop FIRM regulations that are enforced on what constitutes mental illness. Who makes the call, oversight, and then enforcement. We need FIRM rules regarding how a felon who has paid their dues and is now possibly wanting his rights returned goes about this.

The rules/laws should be at a federal level, across all 50 states. They should protect all law abiding citizens today and into the future. They require state level and local level oversight. That oversight should not be exploitable by any one agency. They need to be so straight forward clear cut and absolutely in stone that it could be set as a Amendment it's self. Thus assuring the future of our children to bare these same arms and protect our nations future as our forefathers designed it to.

The opportunity is NOW... the "left" as they are seen are rallying for a change. They could care less about our children, our country and our future. And THAT is the weakness we need to exploit. It;s time gun owners face the truth....

we spend too much time preaching and whining about or rights and zero time seeing we already have them. Lets make them work thus protecting them.

Gun owners who see their "right" to own weapons as the battle are short sighted. How about your children's right to that exact same thing? If we don't protect through simple common sense now.... it won't be here for them.

Think about this recent shooting.  What if the media was reporting the man had a gun buyers permit, went nuts and shot up a school. We as society did all we could strictly enforcing our laws based on simple common sense. The left could then ONLY argue it's simply obvious a mentally ill person shot up a school. They may try and argue gun control...would it get any traction?  Any buffoon with half a brain knows this country has more weapons in personal possession than Canada has maple trees. Gun control is about just that.....not giving them the ammunition to wage a discussion....

reality....he bought the gun at a box store from some NON professional. He was known to be unstable but family and friends did nothing of any real use. The FBI/ATF dropped the ball, the locals dropped the ball the school dropped the ball... and so did you and I.

PART of that discussion is why we have people on the level of fast food employees selling weapons. The left asks that question.... its a good point. The fact is he was unstable... why was he able to get that weapon... again the left makes that point...I agree. See the entire conversation because their agenda is to
ban weapons" the conversation on the gun owners part...Yr not getting my weapons"  Two fools meet. We can stop things such as this if we on the side of our ec amendment actually saw what the battle is..... its about US being responsible and fixing this mess.

[Atkinsmatt]

I am not willing to ask permission to exercise a right.  That is what a permit is.  We have them now as you stated folks before us let the situation erode/ gave an inch which could be stretched into a mile slowly if allowed.

We can and should be responsible. 

It was stated last night during a debate that we should do something.  We should. 

It was admitted that changing the age of purchase wouldn't make a difference by a anti-gun person.  Don't just waste time and effort doing something.  Be effective. 

The Supreme Court said years ago that the government nor the police have any obligation to protect us.  While I strongly disagree with the on-site officer who took no action, he made the call to protect himself instead of those he was sworn to protect and we have the result.  I suspect that he is not the only individual that would have made that call that is in a similar positon.

It is a very trick situation with more issues than access to guns.  What about mental health?  Do we want all veterans locked up because that saw horrific things on the battlefield?  That could happen if those in power wanted it to if we make the laws too easy to just put away people we say have mental health issues.  What about the kid who is different or a loner or the elderly?  What about those who disagree with us?  It could happen if we allow it to be simple to declare someone has a mental problem.

I agree that there are those who profit during these times or other manufactured scares.  That is not right.

It would go a long way toward helping to enforce laws that we have.  Let's be effective in the actions we take.  There were several failures along the way.  Let's work to ensure that that doesn't happen again.  I wouldn't have a problem with the employees that sell guns being required to have training instead of just coming to work.  That is reasonable and could be effective.  Making me get in line to get a permit is not effective.  It fuels the fight.

[Bob Smith]

 

[Flyin6]

It is not the gate which prevents entry, but the gate keeper.

On the mental health subject, the actual mental health of an individual is a pretty big gray area.

I have to look no further than my case with the VA, and following my returning from Afghanistan following a very long deployment there.

For reasons only doctors can explain all that stress caused my perfectly healthy heart to succumb to a kind of Atrial Fibrillation. It was awful. I couldn't fly, or really do anything. It was like walking around having a heart attack...no fun.

SO the Army sends me home on a medevac flight to seek treatment in the states. The doctor treating me takes note of the recent combat experience and tells me that stress is the trigger for the heart to start beating all crazy. So, he sends me to a psychiatrist. That guy confirms I have combat stress and he lumps it into a diagnosis of ptsd.

It took a bit, but I got past that and life went on. they medicated the electrical heart process, and today I live normally.

The VA picks up on the VA, awarding me 30% disability even though I was given 0% disability for two broken backs, 0% for one ear which was clinically deaf 0% for a knee that had walked and ran thousands of miles with boots and heavy rucks or in mandated exercise.

So they made this PTSD thing stick. I argued that I do not have any such thing, but with the connective processes between mental illness/PTSD/denying gun ownership, I see myself and millions of other combat veterans set up to have our guns removed for our own safety

B.S. is my response to that.

So you see, it is not the mental health gun ownership issue that bothers me. Once that law is enacted, then some clerk will actually make the case by case decision. Some clerk will decide our rights. It happens now in all departments of the government. Some tree huger son of a Berkeley law professor gets a job at the local gun permit office and just like that, military guys, trump supporters, conservatives, Christians, or anyone identified as "One of those people" by our liberal clerk is denied their rights.

Not the law, but the person adjudicating that law.

[Flyin6]

Another problem

Loss of military readiness.

If a civilian cannot own a long gun until 21, then I assume soldiers younger than 21 should also be restricted. The argument is made on the basis of an individual reaching some minimum level of maturity.

Lots and lots of soldiers are 17-20 years of age. Losing all of them will cost us greatly as we work to replace all the lost warriors.

On a side note, I never realized those kids in the back of my Chinook should not have had weapons! Hell, they even had bullets!

[cruizng]

Norm, I always like hearing your points of view. Makes me think.

Couples of my 2cts I would throw in. You refer to the smartest coming up with solutions. Not sure if you watched the CNN "Town Hall" debacle it is painfully obvious that the anti crowd wants to work on any reforms. They want nothing short of confiscation. They see no reason why anyone should have guns. That isn't just the far left fringe it is most all of the left if they had their way. Obviously they have lots of obstacles but that doesn't stop their effort.

They will be successful in a 100 years or so because they are grooming and raising millions of kids that have no interest in life, liberty, or happiness and especially true respect and dedication to the constitution and bill of rights.

That is why they jump so hard anytime a tragedy occurs and the ONLY focus is on the gun. GUN = BAD. over and over ad nauseum. 

[OldKooT]

I did not watch the CNN thing. I long ago decided the news was nothing but manipulation of society by both sides to chase their agendas. That said.....

if the majority wanted guns gone.... explain the sales LoL

[stlaser]

You probably bought more than we realized....

[cruizng]

I did not watch the CNN thing. I long ago decided the news was nothing but manipulation of society by both sides to chase their agendas. That said.....

if the majority wanted guns gone.... explain the sales LoL

Yeah. I doubt the lefties are the ones pumping up the gun sales.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[KensAuto]

Decided to delete my comment after considering the fact that a very close family member of mine is a psychologist. : Embarrassed

[wilsonphil]

I own a LOT of guns. Probably more than most of you honestly. Not at all bragging, just for reference to what I am about to type.
Lets entertain a "reality" conversation.

FACT: We have a population in this country of mentally ill people walking around with weapons.
FACT: We sell mentally unwell people rifles such as an AR at Wal mart, bass pro similar places.
FACT: The idiots selling these weapons are in many cases also unstable.
FACT: We have gun manufactures making it easier and easier to acquire weapons of such nature.
FACT: The ATF back round check is a joke.
FACT: Most states you can buy a AR 15, some 30 round mags, and 1000 round of ammo from a non ATF approved "employee" of a box store at 18 years of age.
FACT: that same kid can't buy some cold meds at that same store.
FACT: high capacity shotguns also can be bought at these stores.
FACT: Gun manufactures are skirting ATF rules that are outdated and based on these technical loop holes are arming "idiots" across our nation... suppose that's an accident?
FACT: One of the most powerful lobbies in DC is supporting this based on the idiocy of peoples fears of being unarmed.
FACT: There are solutions of common sense to many of the above issues that do not in any way infringe on our rights.
FACT: nothing we do regarding guns will stop what happened at that school in Florida from happening again is a BS statement.  That logic is that of the activist minded.

Solutions.....

FACT: requiring all gun sales to be conducted between a FFL holder and a customer is not going to restrict your rights in any way. It just means you can't buy a weapon at Wal Mart anymore...Each and every transaction by law would be required to be done by an actual FFL holder... NOT an employee, unless said employee has a FFL.

All FFL holders need to pass a basic "Psyche" course that may help "slow" nutters acquiring weapons. Sure couldn't hurt.

To purchase a weapon you MUST face to face apply for a purchase permit from trained law enforcement. Nebraska has done this with handguns and it causes no issues. And likely does "catch" a few who should not own weapons.
"Most" gun shops in this state/pawn shops included will not even sell you a weapon of any sort unless you have that permit. Guess what....walmart could care less. They rely on that failed ATF back round check.

Would it be a problem to have all weapons with a magazine capacity of more than 3 require a unique purchase permit? I don't see why it would.

Lets make these permits expire every two years. We go to the DMV and renew our privilege to drive, why can't we do the same regarding buying weapons? We require you pass a eye test to drive a car, but not shoot a gun?

Lets require all private party transfers to be done through a FFL That way both parties have a purchase permit? Seems very simple, and causes zero actual problems. I have actually done this for years now...it's not a restriction, it's responsible.

Lets put a serial number on the AR's bolt carrier group. Sales/transfer require a FFL. Or if that bothers the ghost gunners then lets require that purchase permit to buy ammo/gun parts. That way they can own their home built weapons legally, but still have to be screened.

I can't see any violation of any "right" in the above ideas. I am sure they may "help" reduce such things as society is dealing with. I believe a ounce of common sense says gun owners and sec amendment supporters should themselves bring ideas to congress such as the above. That in itself would send a powerful message of "responsibility" to America. It says we see there are problems, we see solutions that fit within our constitution and we are advocating these changes.

The upside to this is in the process we could protect our rights. We could possibly achieve constitutional carry, we could get states to back off their Nazi restrictions (Cali) done correctly we could eliminate then gun free zones/cities... and thus we WOULD be most certainly be able to look our kids in the face and say....we did well.

The LAST thing the left expects is gun owners fighting for a safer America through common damn sense.

Norm, the problem is every one of the things you say can be turned into permission that is 100% controlled.

Fact 1.   We have lots of Mentally Ill people doing lots of things, Driving, Buying booze, injuring themself’s or other people.  Some are drugged to stay in check, some need to be drugged but decide not to take medication.  I would love to see the drugs that are currently prescribed to our current government leaders, local and federal level.

Fact2.  I don’t understand why you are saying WalMart and Bass Pro are a bad thing, they are FFL dealers so as long as they have the buyer fill out the paperwork what is the issue.

Fact 3.  That may be true, but that’s the case at most places you buy things.

Fact 4.  Such a Nature??  If they are so deadly then why do we allow local LE , FBI, CIA, NASA, FDA, IRS, BLM and so on and so on have the same level of weaponry.  A flintlock rifle or pressure cooker filled full of fireworks powder will kill you also.  I can buy a semi load of fireworks when your 18 in this country (more on this later)
 
Fact 5.  What should this check be?

Fact 6.  So what is the issue with this?  I can go to the local liquor store and buy enough booze to kill my self if I wanted too, also I could buy a truck load of liquor and take it to a high school hangout and lets see what happens. You might just end up with just as many deaths/injurys as the nut job did in Florida.

Fact 7.  True but a 14year old girl can get an abortion with out telling her parents and the school doesn't report it to LE even if it was/is a rape, also you can get the morning after pill if requested in the schools without parents’ permission.
 
Fact 8.  Other than double barrels most pumps or automatic shotguns will take 6 rounds, again they are all FFL dealers they all follow the same rules.

Fact 9.  The more heavy handed a government becomes(fuels the want) the more demand there will be of weapons of the same nature. Like it or not why did the feds retreat during the Bundy mess in Nevada, they were out gunned or matched in weaponry, many examples of this.

Fact 10.   I'm assuming you mean the NRA, how many members are in the NRA? This is not a George Soros funded lobby group, its Millions(5million last count) of Americans and gun manufactures also.  Its not fear in most cases its preemptive measures to stop the unchangeable.

Fact 11. Permission/permits/requirements  can be changed overnight with no public input, then it could infringe on rights.

Fact 12.  Hindsight is always 20/20, this Crazy Kid had 10or12 “assault weapons” where did a kid get money to buy that, he had a trust fund with 800K in it, so we should limit how much money children under 21 can spend or have??  That would of prevented all of this people under 21 cant have money either.

Fact 13.  I disagree, WHY, I have bought one gun and have gone thru the check, why should I have to do it over and over again for every gun, do I have to retake a driver’s test every time I buy a new car?  The Wal mart/box store doesn’t hold water they are a Valid FFL holder you cant change that.

Requiring a “Psyche” test can be abused, who is going to administer the test? the ATF???? Wernt these the guys that sold guns they knew were going to Mexico and you want the ATF to CONTROL things?????

 Again why?  Then why not for everything that can kill/hurt someone?  Do we have to go to the DMV right when I buy a car with the seller to transfer the title?

Great but lets do that with Car ownership also, if you have a car with over 75hp you need a different class of License, over 100, another type and so on, just like trucks/semis. So I could only buy a Double Barrel or single shot, then I would need to apply so for 99.5% of the firearms out there we would need a permit.  Right now just like the nut job in Florida if you have the money you could buy the most powerful car in the world but not have any skill to drive it.  even if I don't have the "special permit" if I go to a Peterbuilt dealer and have the  money do you think they will NOT sell me a Tractor because I don't have a CDL??????????

Second amendment is not a privilege.  So To post something on the internet should I have to go thru all the same thing you want to do for buying firearms?  And ALL of the cars/trucks/tractors you own or are on your property are titled with your states DMV?

So EVERYONE of the firearms you have/own even ones that were given to you or you inherited you took them down to the local FFL to get it transferred to your name?  Even the one your family members might have left at you house because they were moving or something, those firearms you took down to your FFL because you were in “control” of those.

Why should I have to tell the government what I own or build as long as I never use it unlawfully?  I have already been screened many many times thru my life for many many many jobs, and we already have numbers(SSN) assigned to us how far do you want to go?  Let’s just MicroChip the firearm owners, that way when you stopped by local/federal LE they know you a firearm owner. No chip no firearm.

The ATF is a JOKE in most cases, and what if the closest FFL dealer is 100-500 miles away?  And what if they do to FFL holders like some states do with Abortion clinics? 

I comes down to money, the crazy kid had the Money to buy the firearms!  Nobody that had the power stopped him before, or during the killings only AFTER the massacre something was done.

Also a PERFECT example of how all the points(facts) you make can be shown to turn into an outlawing is the 1934 NFA. As everyone knows before 1934 ANYONE could go and buy a fully automatic Firearm UNTIL the crazy gangsters started shooting each other up.  So here is where the controlling comes in in two forms, so then the Government said well we won’t outlaw automatic/SBR firearms we will just restrict them in the form of a $200 fee AND a CLEO letter. In 1934 $200 was a LOT of money(remember my money point) even just the gun alone was $200 if the local LE officer didn't like you no CELO so no firearm even if there was no legal for you not to own one because someone didn't think you needed it.  So fast forward to 1986, Norms Half brother Chuck Schumer sneaks some wording into to the Gun Owners act to ban of all future machinegun’s for private individuals, BUT it’s still OK for all those other NON military government groups to have them.  Why would you ban something that had NEVER been used in crime!!  In 1986, NEVER had a legally owned NFA firearm been used in the commission of a crime or killed anyone!  NEVER!!!!!!!  Just because Chucky didn’t think you should have them they were outlawed!!!!!!

Also Norm what do we do about the 90,000 people that are killed every year in alcohol related accidents, this number does not include the number of people crippled, jobs lost, money lost, medical costs, children, wife’s abused, raped, is off the charts!  How much loss has Booze caused the military, but we can buy booze at almost any street corner in every state in every city, truckstop, quickie mart all staffed by Norms “idiots”  I bet we lose as many children every day in booze related problem as the nut job in Florida did!
   
I can go on and on why most powerful lefties doesn't  want the local population to have firearms but that is a whole other conservation.

Now for all of you say I’m picking a fight with Norm I’m not, I pointing out flaws in some of his “facts” and it open for discussion.

[TexasRedNeck]

Norm, first I would say that Chicago is the perfect example that most of the more than 3700 deaths by handguns arent by people buyin them legally.

Second, there are thousands of people rejected for falsifying answers to their 4473 but yet never prosecuted.

Third, you have massive failures on the fed level to basic reporting of events that would have kept someone from passing a background check.  Church shooter that got discharged from the Air Force comes to mind.

Very few guns used in killings are obtained legally.  And I can mag change in less than 2 seconds so the limitations on hi cap mags is a joke.

I'm actually ok with moving the age for long gun purchases to 21 unless you are enlisted or a veteran with honorable discharge.

that idiot in FL had the cops show up at his house 23 times in 2 years.  think that should have been a flag?  two reports to the fed are not acted on?  At least one cop outside the school freezes?

It not the laws that are the issue....

[Bob Smith]

  Clap Clap Clap.....

[stlaser]

As for moving the age to 21, I disagree and KD sums it up well. Quite honestly I recommend going to his site and reading a few of his recent posts if you have time.

https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=233031

[stlaser]

The other thing I’d like to state. Although I don’t always agree with him and currently he is getting a bit beat up on this thread I might add. Norm is a great sounding board and makes me think outside of my stubborn box at times.

[BobbyB]

The other thing I’d like to state. Although I don’t always agree with him and currently he is getting a bit beat up on this thread I might add. Norm is a great sounding board and makes me think outside of my stubborn box at times.

I don't think he's getting beat up. I see a civil discussion between adults who are responding with opinions and in cases backing them up with facts and source material.