REAL MAN TRUCKWORKS & SURVIVAL

TOOLS, CONSTRUCTION, ALTERNATIVE ENERGY => Alternative Energy => Topic started by: Flyin6 on September 17, 2018, 02:24:45 PM

Title: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 17, 2018, 02:24:45 PM
Well, folks, never to be stationary long enough to allow grass (Even Kentucky blue grass) to grow under my feet, I started a big home improvement project, installing a wood fired boiler to heat my large home.

I have been thinking about this for years. Last February, I received an electric bill for nearly $750 for one month! That tripped the "need to do something" switch and this is where I arrived. As many of you know I also own a farm with at least 60 acres of timber, and a saw mill which produces a lot of scrap.

My summer electric bill averages right at $200 a month which includes the AC, washer/Dryer, electric stove and hot water heater. I use a heat pump which is marginally effective at heating in zone 5. When it starts falling into the lower 30's there isn't much ambient to grab so the electric heaters fire up and drain my checking account.

With the wood fired boiler, I will now heat 100% with wood. The thing will also make all my hot water, so during the cold months I will only need sparks for washing dirty clothes, watching the TV, cookin' turkeys and keeping myself from stumblin' around in the dark. I should see an electric bill somewhere from $100-$130 ish I estimate.

I selected an EZ Boiler rated to heat a 7500 square foot house. I will use it to also heat both of my garages, something which I have never had in my life! I will only have to command pre-rangers to cut and stack wood to stay as cozy as a bug in a rug.

The project is coming in at around $7000 ish with me doing the installation myself. That makes for a nice opportunity to document the installation for you fence sitters out there thinking about doing the same thing

The company:
https://www.ezboilers.com/

The unit:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Nate on September 17, 2018, 02:35:29 PM
something from left field......this is definitely interesting!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: cudakidd53 on September 17, 2018, 03:08:44 PM
For Christmas, each Pre-ranger will get their own Stihl with strict instructions to not ever set it down when Chief is near a lawn mowing implement and to go forth and blaze a trail or two!  Gun are so Last Year now...... :likebutton:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bob Smith on September 17, 2018, 05:22:59 PM

Who are you hiring to dig the trenches? You wouldn't even think of doing that yourself given your track record with equipment would you.... :beercheers:



Good way to get rid of the scraps at the farm. Will the cedar slab wood work ok or burn too fast?
Taking turns filling up the stove or you just get to do it since you changed the heat source.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on September 17, 2018, 05:35:37 PM
Nice thing about those is if you get a large enough door you really don’t need to split much wood
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Nate on September 17, 2018, 06:51:07 PM
Nice thing about those is if you get a large enough door you really don’t need to split much wood

 :likebutton:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: dave945 on September 17, 2018, 07:08:21 PM
Definitely interested in this, what with only being about 20 miles away from your house and being all electric as well. Have plenty of Woods around the house to keep it stoked too. I am starting to look into alternatives to the heat pumps, so this is very timely.


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Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: BobbyB on September 17, 2018, 07:21:10 PM
Alot of the farms and houses out in the country have those. They aren't too popular with people who have neighbors nearby as the smoke blows into their place. However, if I ever build a house I'm getting one of those. Digging trenches aren't hard.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bob Smith on September 17, 2018, 08:27:29 PM
My wife's cousin heats their place in Montana with one, only problem is deciding which one of them will be feeding it in the morning. I think it takes like 3 ft pieces and for the most part smaller rounds so not much splitting. With the slabs, only need to cut to length and stack near by. Wood smoke, I guess the neighbors will get used to it or not. Not as bad as summer and the forest fire smoke all around.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on September 18, 2018, 06:34:22 AM
Alot of the farms and houses out in the country have those. They aren't too popular with people who have neighbors nearby as the smoke blows into their place. However, if I ever build a house I'm getting one of those. Digging trenches aren't hard.

A lot of places like what I envision Don to have as a home place have restrictions on them that they need to have stacks a certain height to get smoke above neighbors.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: cruizng on September 18, 2018, 08:18:35 AM
Nice project! Echo what Bobby said that up here in MN there are many of those and they work great even in 20 below weather. Lots of shops with in floor heat run those also.

Plus added bonus you can position it so that your favorite liberal neighbor is downwind and can enjoy the aroma.  :beercheers:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bear9350 on September 18, 2018, 09:22:21 AM
Cedar might burn to hot and fast to be efficient.  Another important factor in determining the correct wood selection will be which species will leave the most ash behind for you to clean up.  I am guessing you will not want to burn cedar slabs without stripping the bark off for this reason but the larger burners are more efficient so maybe it won't be an issue.  My uncle has one that appears to be of similar size.  His also takes about 3 foot pieces.  Anything that is too small to go for lumber is small enough to go in the burner.  I think he is able to fill it up once and it will last all day except for on the coldest of winter days when the high never gets above 0 F.  He has converted old wagon running gear to stack wood on so he can pull the wagon right up in front of the burner to fire-up from.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 18, 2018, 09:39:16 AM

Who are you hiring to dig the trenches? You wouldn't even think of doing that yourself given your track record with equipment would you.... :beercheers:



Good way to get rid of the scraps at the farm. Will the cedar slab wood work ok or burn too fast?
Taking turns filling up the stove or you just get to do it since you changed the heat source.
Bob,

So here's what I learned about this particuliar transfer conduit. It only looses like one degree per 75 feet. There is no real need to bury it at all, more for astetics than anything. There are some hot water transfer tubing that is inferior and will heat the ground and would benefit from being buried, but not this stuff.

So the location I am settling on at the moment is only about five feet from the house. I have a drive through garage with a preexisting concrete pad on the outlet door. I figure I'll drop the big box right there, then run the stack of firewood down the inside wall of the garage. So I'll have maybe 10-15 feet of the conduit laying in the flowerbed, then it's inside of the house.

Right now I plan to run two circuits. Number one will be to the hot water heater then to the main air handler then out to her garage heater.

Loop number two will be to the upstairs air handler, then on to my garage, then back to the boiler.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bear9350 on September 18, 2018, 09:42:20 AM
You might want to check with your insurance provider on how close to the house the burner can be.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 18, 2018, 09:42:36 AM
Nice thing about those is if you get a large enough door you really don’t need to split much wood
It has a 24" X 24" door, so it will take full tree trunk logs. And you're right, no need to split the wood. Just cut to length and chuck it in.

During cold KY days I may have to load it once at 0800, then again at 2000. Normally, however I hear it will go 18 hours, maybe more, so you would just load it a bit fuller and catch it once a day during the moderate days which we have a preponderance of here

Mikey, Chainsaws for all...Great idea!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 18, 2018, 09:44:38 AM
Definitely interested in this, what with only being about 20 miles away from your house and being all electric as well. Have plenty of Woods around the house to keep it stoked too. I am starting to look into alternatives to the heat pumps, so this is very timely.


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Dave, call Tim, he is gearing up to deliver two now to this area. You may well be able to get on the delivery with mine.

Tim is a stand up guy so far. He delivers this 1800 lb monstrosity for free!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 18, 2018, 09:47:14 AM
Oh, and he requires no down payment, just your word. Then when he delivers it, if you like it you can pay for it, if not, well, he will just deliver it to someone else who wants one.

I gave him the list of sizes for the four heat exchangers I am purchasing and he already ordered the stuff to be drop shipped directly to my home...And I haven't given him a single penny yet.

I am so happy to be dealing with such a stand up person in this day of chinese built junk, credit checks and distrust.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 18, 2018, 09:48:42 AM
Nice project! Echo what Bobby said that up here in MN there are many of those and they work great even in 20 below weather. Lots of shops with in floor heat run those also.

Plus added bonus you can position it so that your favorite liberal neighbor is downwind and can enjoy the aroma.  :beercheers:
Nice...
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 18, 2018, 09:50:48 AM
Nice project! Echo what Bobby said that up here in MN there are many of those and they work great even in 20 below weather. Lots of shops with in floor heat run those also.

Plus added bonus you can position it so that your favorite liberal neighbor is downwind and can enjoy the aroma.  :beercheers:
Nice...
Cedar might burn to hot and fast to be efficient.  Another important factor in determining the correct wood selection will be which species will leave the most ash behind for you to clean up.  I am guessing you will not want to burn cedar slabs without stripping the bark off for this reason but the larger burners are more efficient so maybe it won't be an issue.  My uncle has one that appears to be of similar size.  His also takes about 3 foot pieces.  Anything that is too small to go for lumber is small enough to go in the burner.  I think he is able to fill it up once and it will last all day except for on the coldest of winter days when the high never gets above 0 F.  He has converted old wagon running gear to stack wood on so he can pull the wagon right up in front of the burner to fire-up from.
Copy that. I think I'll be burning mostly ash for the next couple years. There are thousands of standing dead ash trees here recently killed by the emerald ash borer. In my neighborhood, I figure I'll offer a free tree removal service and pigeon hole the logs to heat me casa
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bob Smith on September 18, 2018, 12:00:16 PM

Don, if you are stacking wood in or near your house or garage, watch out for bugs. They get started in the structure they can eat you  right out of a house.


The place you bought the stove from should know the placement rules for the county. Insurance agent, I agree would be a good call to make and maybe a statement in writing back to you would be good to have.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 18, 2018, 12:03:53 PM
Folks, you won't believe this, but FedEx just delivered the heat exchangers, pumps, and insulated PEX line

From Wisconsin in less than 24 hours!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bob Smith on September 18, 2018, 01:06:47 PM
Time to get to work and take good pics along the way,  check to be sure the camera is good to go.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Nate on September 18, 2018, 02:59:02 PM
do you have a backhoe on one of those green machines?  how are you digging the lines to the house?
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 18, 2018, 03:05:05 PM
do you have a backhoe on one of those green machines?  how are you digging the lines to the house?
Not going to bury them I think

Boiler only has to be five feet from the house, so what 7-8 feet of insulated line? I should be fine

I have read quite a bit on this already, and many others left the lines exposed for a year or more and the unit worked just fine. Heat loss is almost non existent.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on September 18, 2018, 04:40:42 PM
do you have a backhoe on one of those green machines?  how are you digging the lines to the house?
Not going to bury them I think

Boiler only has to be five feet from the house, so what 7-8 feet of insulated line? I should be fine

I have read quite a bit on this already, and many others left the lines exposed for a year or more and the unit worked just fine. Heat loss is almost non existent.

7 to 8 foot and you aren’t going to bury the lines? Really?  :rolleyes:

Rent a trencher for two hours from HD if your knee is too jacked up to trench that far or the boys are too busy with football....
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 18, 2018, 06:55:04 PM
do you have a backhoe on one of those green machines?  how are you digging the lines to the house?
Not going to bury them I think

Boiler only has to be five feet from the house, so what 7-8 feet of insulated line? I should be fine

I have read quite a bit on this already, and many others left the lines exposed for a year or more and the unit worked just fine. Heat loss is almost non existent.

7 to 8 foot and you aren’t going to bury the lines? Really?  :rolleyes:

Rent a trencher for two hours from HD if your knee is too jacked up to trench that far or the boys are too busy with football....
It's not that, its the location. Where a concrete pad meets a bridge walkway beside a AC condenser. Simply no real way to dig it in.

It will be fine
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on September 18, 2018, 07:32:23 PM
Copy, I understand.....

(http://i.imgur.com/HKXRe4M.jpg)
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 18, 2018, 08:18:32 PM
Not quite that involved, but for a guy with perpetual sore knees, might as well be!  :shocked:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: DDS on September 19, 2018, 06:58:32 AM
Did you ever look into a wood gasification unit? little to no ash to clean up & can be 2X more efficient, but can only take seasoned hardwood.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 19, 2018, 09:13:36 AM
Did you ever look into a wood gasification unit? little to no ash to clean up & can be 2X more efficient, but can only take seasoned hardwood.
I did
They don't work very well

The folks that sell them do not like nor trust them.

Unlike the regular units like the one I own, conditions need to be optimal for them to work. Get slightly damp wood at a critical deep freeze and you are going to be without heat.

It's also interesting to note that although they advertise being ultra clean burning, the boiler owner needs to routinely scrub out the gass tubes and channels to remove scale which quickly reduces efficiency. None of that going on in a standard boiler

and

Here's your biggest clue

The EPA outlawed the "Normal" units requiring manufacturers to produce only gasification units for wood

Now lets think about it, when has the EPA ever made decisions that helped efficiency or were wise???

Diesel particulate filter: Fail, don't work
Diesel exhaust fluid: Can cause engine failure, causes engines to pump out noxious clouds of steam
Clean Coal: Drove up energy costs by nearly 100%, did not reduce particulate count by very much at all
EGR: Causes diesel engines to go into limp mode, can choke the intake tract to clog up
Electric cars: Produce batteries which are super poisonous heavy metal waste which needs to be sealed prior to filling up landfills
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 19, 2018, 04:57:01 PM
So, spending some time looking at the physical layout of the system

It divides out quite well into two circuits

Circuit 1
           This will include the lower air handler 20 X 20 heat exchanger
           the 20 plate H20 water heater
           the small garage 50'000btu heater

Circuit 2
           The upper air handler 18 X 20 heat exchanger
            the main garage 100,000 btu heater

Now comes the mechanics of the actual routing of the pex lines, placement of items, fittings, valves and things like that

I am thinking I am going to place a lot of valves in the system so that I could, for example, close the inlet/outlet valves for an item to be able to remove it for maintenance.

I'm off to the farm for some work, but upon return the happiness begins
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 19, 2018, 04:58:03 PM
I will add a high flow circulation pump to each circuit capable of moving the water up several stories without protest
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on September 19, 2018, 05:07:58 PM
Don, my welder had one of these (a large one like yours) and he started with two separate runs. Granted he was heating a 40 x 60 insulated shop too however in the end as you don’t want your garage, shop or work space overly warm what he did was ran it to the house heat exchanger first then in return to wood burner he ran the water through the exchanger to the shop. It kept the shop comfortable. This way worked best for his situation, something to consider maybe.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 19, 2018, 06:15:54 PM
Don, my welder had one of these (a large one like yours) and he started with two separate runs. Granted he was heating a 40 x 60 insulated shop too however in the end as you don’t want your garage, shop or work space overly warm what he did was ran it to the house heat exchanger first then in return to wood burner he ran the water through the exchanger to the shop. It kept the shop comfortable. This way worked best for his situation, something to consider maybe.
That is exactly how I plan to route the lines

Circuit 1 goes from boiler to the 20 X 20 HE to the 20 plate hot water heater then to the garage heater. Tim tells me the 180 degree water will be down to around 130 when it reaches the garage air handler, plenty enough to keep that room toasty.

Circuit 2 will go to the smaller air handler 18 X 20 first, then on to the 100,000 BTU big garage (30 X 36 X 12) heater.

Luckily for me, there is a lot of experience out there that is readily available that I am reading.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: DDS on September 20, 2018, 06:54:48 AM
Don, my welder had one of these (a large one like yours) and he started with two separate runs. Granted he was heating a 40 x 60 insulated shop too however in the end as you don’t want your garage, shop or work space overly warm what he did was ran it to the house heat exchanger first then in return to wood burner he ran the water through the exchanger to the shop. It kept the shop comfortable. This way worked best for his situation, something to consider maybe.
That is exactly how I plan to route the lines

Circuit 1 goes from boiler to the 20 X 20 HE to the 20 plate hot water heater then to the garage heater. Tim tells me the 180 degree water will be down to around 130 when it reaches the garage air handler, plenty enough to keep that room toasty.

Circuit 2 will go to the smaller air handler 18 X 20 first, then on to the 100,000 BTU big garage (30 X 36 X 12) heater.

Luckily for me, there is a lot of experience out there that is readily available that I am reading.

If you need any assistance, ask away. I've been a licensed plumber for 20+ years
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bigdave_185 on September 20, 2018, 08:32:28 AM
Interesting idea,   In Utah you can only burn at certain times in fireplaces,  I don’t know how this type of system would work.   


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Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bob Smith on September 21, 2018, 12:51:09 AM
single source of heat does help with when you can burn. And he is in the shadows of the earth
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 23, 2018, 11:52:40 AM
Interesting idea,   In Utah you can only burn at certain times in fireplaces,  I don’t know how this type of system would work.   


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That would be counter productive for sure. You need to keep the coals stoked during the whole of the cool months. That and there are not a huge quantity of trees in Utah like here in the tuck.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bob Smith on September 23, 2018, 12:01:09 PM
Don, is the unit set up for burning coal? Kind of dirty to store but wouldn't it hold fire longer if you were going to be away for a day or so?
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 23, 2018, 06:36:03 PM
Don, is the unit set up for burning coal? Kind of dirty to store but wouldn't it hold fire longer if you were going to be away for a day or so?
Yes, Bob, Coal or wood

Coal is not free, but my wood is, so that's my pick!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 23, 2018, 06:55:34 PM
OK plumbers render an opinion for me

Getting ready to start installing the various pieces of the wood boiler inside the house part of the system.

I will be using 1" PEX to transfer the hot water. PEX is rated to 200F and the water it will transport will start its journey at 180F then as heat is siphoned off will end somewhere around 110-120F I would imagine.

From everything I have read the regular PEX is fine for this application. The only warnings I see is to stay away from Chinese manufacture. Ploy PEX draws its strength from a cross linking of the poly molecules. This cross linking process occurs over a 12 hour process where the plastic is kept at (I think) 120F. From what I have read the Chinese will oftentimes just extrude the poly and package the tube up and ship it off for installation into Dave's new house.

So, I'll pick up some high quality (Expensive) US made PEX and begin with a 200 or 300 foot roll of that.

Specifically, I am seeking advice on the attachment method of the line to the fittings. I can buy fittings that the tube is pressed onto and grabs all by itself through barbed flanges. I can also use the standard PEX fittings and use a hose clamp, a specially designed PEX stainless clamp that one uses special pliers to install, or I could use the crush rings I have so often used in the past for the 1/2" and 3/4" applications.

Finally there are shark-bite fittings that one simply inserts the PEX line into a fitting containing an O-ring and teeth which simply capture the line and seal it with the rubber gasket.

My inclination is to use the stainless rings which are squeezed to proper tightness with the special pliers, but no decisions have been made. THe installation begins tomorrow!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: DDS on September 26, 2018, 08:02:18 AM
OK plumbers render an opinion for me

Getting ready to start installing the various pieces of the wood boiler inside the house part of the system.

I will be using 1" PEX to transfer the hot water. PEX is rated to 200F and the water it will transport will start its journey at 180F then as heat is siphoned off will end somewhere around 110-120F I would imagine.

From everything I have read the regular PEX is fine for this application. The only warnings I see is to stay away from Chinese manufacture. Ploy PEX draws its strength from a cross linking of the poly molecules. This cross linking process occurs over a 12 hour process where the plastic is kept at (I think) 120F. From what I have read the Chinese will oftentimes just extrude the poly and package the tube up and ship it off for installation into Dave's new house.

So, I'll pick up some high quality (Expensive) US made PEX and begin with a 200 or 300 foot roll of that.

Specifically, I am seeking advice on the attachment method of the line to the fittings. I can buy fittings that the tube is pressed onto and grabs all by itself through barbed flanges. I can also use the standard PEX fittings and use a hose clamp, a specially designed PEX stainless clamp that one uses special pliers to install, or I could use the crush rings I have so often used in the past for the 1/2" and 3/4" applications.

Finally there are shark-bite fittings that one simply inserts the PEX line into a fitting containing an O-ring and teeth which simply capture the line and seal it with the rubber gasket.

My inclination is to use the stainless rings which are squeezed to proper tightness with the special pliers, but no decisions have been made. THe installation begins tomorrow!

Don
sorry for just responding. This is the sole brand of Pex I use. I just actually went to a 2 day course on their new products which is why I didn't respond sooner. I use nothing but Viega products. the tubing is made in Kansas I believe. They use a stainless ring that gets crimped on. I use their tubing & fittings.
https://www.viega.us/en/products/Spare-parts/Viega-FostaPEX-tubing-2805US.html
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Atkinsmatt on September 26, 2018, 08:28:52 AM
Special tool but I would go with the PEX fittings.  It is never bad to have another tool.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 26, 2018, 10:55:27 PM
Well, the information came in a bit late (After the fact) as I have already purchased a lot of stuff, PEX included

I'll post a pic of that coil later on

So today after looking at everything and sizing it all up, I got started on the lower level plumbing

First lets look at the 20 plate heat exchanger for the hot water heater. THis thing will do all the water heating in the (electric) water heater. Since the working temp of the wood fired boiler of 180F that will be cut back ten or more degrees after first running through a heat exchanger, I am looking at water that is significantly warmer that the electric element has produced for 10 years now.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 26, 2018, 10:57:05 PM
I will be using 1" PEX for the entire wood fired boiler system. These fittings are 1" NPT with the pex style flanged nipple

These things cost nearly $5 ea!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 26, 2018, 10:57:48 PM
I am using the recommended fitting dope to best seal the threads
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 26, 2018, 10:59:51 PM
The plate heat exchanger is fitted with two of the PEX fittings on the hot water side from the boiler, and two 1" to 3/4" bushings with a nipple and a CPVC fitting on the other. These ports are where the cold water flowing into the water heater will be routed.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 26, 2018, 11:01:16 PM
One side of the supply to the heater is fitted with approved heater flexible braided hose. This will screw directly into the water heater in time
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 26, 2018, 11:02:01 PM
The unit is supplied with mounting brackets
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 26, 2018, 11:03:26 PM
So, I'll pick a place near the water heater and not far from the air handler to keep the water lines shorter
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 26, 2018, 11:04:19 PM
And then mounted the heat exchanger to the OSB which is secured to the wall studs
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 26, 2018, 11:05:47 PM
The water heater has a 3/4" NPT port which I will be replacing with a nipple which the heater flexible hose will attach to
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 26, 2018, 11:08:08 PM
With that in place, next I tackled the first heat exchanger which will be mounted in the air handler and provide heat to keep our tootsies warm.

The lower unit takes a 20" X 20" air filter, so that's the size I selected for the HE
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 26, 2018, 11:08:54 PM
I will have to sweat on some 1" copper PEX fittings
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 26, 2018, 11:11:48 PM
I had an electrostatic air filter fitted when the house was new. That lasted a couple years and just like our computer controlled vehicles became unreliable and was disconnected and removed. The casing remains and it is a perfect spot to mount the new HE
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 26, 2018, 11:13:07 PM
And...IT fits!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 26, 2018, 11:16:14 PM
I'm really liking this so far. With some minimal metal work I'll be able to seal the HE in place and construct a new door for the filter

Speaking of doors, the factory unit was filled with wires and electronics. I made all that go away
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 26, 2018, 11:18:26 PM
And here is the 1" PEX I picked up at Home Depot. It retails for $74 for 100 feet. With my discount I am paying $67 for the roll.

I think I will end up needing three rolls total
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 26, 2018, 11:22:28 PM
That stuff is a bear to work with. There must be a way to lay it out in the sun and warm it first because, it is a sweaty workout forcing that stuff where you need it to go.

But force it I did as I started to run the lines from/to components

The lines slide over the ridged nipples then are secured with a stainless crimp ring and a special pair of ratcheting pliers that really put the squeeze on things
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 26, 2018, 11:24:35 PM
First connection completed

This PEX is not very flexible at all. the installation makes for a very solid assembly when crimped up

I routed the first three lines up to the overhead joists and taped and zip tied them to existing AC lines.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 26, 2018, 11:25:37 PM
Lines getting installed
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 26, 2018, 11:27:25 PM
This corner of the wood shop is the point where the lines will exit the building to meet the special triple wraped outside insulated pipe
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 26, 2018, 11:30:14 PM
This is the totality of the lines that run to/from the lower air handler

The boiler water will travel first to the air handler HE, then to the hot water heater plate HE, then up to the small 24 X 24 garage to another heater/air handler unit that will mount to the ceiling and heat the garage. From there the cooled water will continue back to the boiler to repeat the process.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Nate on September 26, 2018, 11:32:41 PM
Can you please educate me on what a (20 plate) heat exchanger is?
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on September 26, 2018, 11:58:11 PM
Can you please educate me on what a (20 plate) heat exchanger is?

Sounds like H after she lost the election to Trump!  :tongue:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 27, 2018, 12:01:24 AM
Can you please educate me on what a (20 plate) heat exchanger is?
I'll try
You know how one of those old cast iron water registers things worked/ looked like?

Well this is very similiar. The plates have hot water on one side flowing from the boiler, and cold water on the other side that in my case is going on to fill the water heater tank.

The two "waters" cannot touch each other and do not mix. They are simply separated by a stainless steel plate that allows the heat to be wicked off the steel into the colder water

Basic Physics: Heat moves from hot to cold.

Another physics lesson: SO how does the thing work exactly?
Well as the water on the cold side of the heats and expands, it becomes pressurized to some extent. The added pressure within the already pressurized vessel is simply an expression of the heat. So the water in the hot water tank is somewhat cooler and at a lower pressure than in the plate exchanger, and pressure will seek to equalize, the heated water will migrate into the tank and over time warm the entire tank up to equalize temps and pressures everywhere.

Now once the Misses gets in the shower and takes an hour long rinse off, the bulk of the hot water is evacuated. Now as water is flowing past the heated plates it wicks off the heat and the plate HE then acts more like an instant on demand water heater and the woman of your life remains complaint free.

Make sense?
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 27, 2018, 12:02:35 AM
Can you please educate me on what a (20 plate) heat exchanger is?

Sounds like H after she lost the election to Trump!  :tongue:

How did you work something that dumb into this intellectual discussion?

Some steel beam fall on your noggin over at that new shop of yours????
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on September 27, 2018, 12:42:58 AM
Not my shop yet Boss, hopefully sorting those details out Friday
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: TexasRedNeck on September 27, 2018, 05:58:52 AM
Don, I want to say that a heat gun helps with the pex coil memory.  Maybe someone can chime in.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: DDS on September 27, 2018, 06:41:31 AM
And here is the 1" PEX I picked up at Home Depot. It retails for $74 for 100 feet. With my discount I am paying $67 for the roll.

I think I will end up needing three rolls total

Don, sorry to be the bearer of bad news. That pex is for potable water use only, and not to be used in a hydronic system. You need Pex with an "oxygen barrier" for that application. Using the Pex you purchased will promote bacterial  growth, turn the water foul & murky over short time.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: DDS on September 27, 2018, 07:09:54 AM
Also, in a closed loop system, you need to provide a means of expansion. How will you be doing that? You are going to need a monster pump to overcome the pressure loss going through that heat exchanger & the 2 hydro coils. If you insist on piping the system this way, I would install the H/E feeding the water heater last. Incoming cold water is going to rob all the BTU's from the hydronic side of that heat exchanger leaving piss warm water coming out. Granted you really only need 140deg for hydro air, you're cutting it close putting that heat exchanger in between the coils. I'll be completely honest. If I were to go into a house that had a piping  system you're about to install, I'd cringe & rip it all out. You will have no control with just 1 loop. Please PM me & I can give you my number & all the advice you want. I'd hate to see you spend all this money & not be happy with the results. Or, you can completely disregard everything I've said & carry on.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: cudakidd53 on September 27, 2018, 07:20:26 AM
And here is the 1" PEX I picked up at Home Depot. It retails for $74 for 100 feet. With my discount I am paying $67 for the roll.

I think I will end up needing three rolls total

Don, sorry to be the bearer of bad news. That pex is for potable water use only, and not to be used in a hydronic system. You need Pex with an "oxygen barrier" for that application. Using the Pex you purchased will promote bacterial  growth, turn the water foul & murky over short time.

I envision the famous flat tire scene from "A Christmas Story" and Don playing the part of Ralphie......  :sad:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Nate on September 27, 2018, 08:23:32 AM
Can you please educate me on what a (20 plate) heat exchanger is?
I'll try
You know how one of those old cast iron water registers things worked/ looked like?

Well this is very similiar. The plates have hot water on one side flowing from the boiler, and cold water on the other side that in my case is going on to fill the water heater tank.

The two "waters" cannot touch each other and do not mix. They are simply separated by a stainless steel plate that allows the heat to be wicked off the steel into the colder water

Basic Physics: Heat moves from hot to cold.

Another physics lesson: SO how does the thing work exactly?
Well as the water on the cold side of the heats and expands, it becomes pressurized to some extent. The added pressure within the already pressurized vessel is simply an expression of the heat. So the water in the hot water tank is somewhat cooler and at a lower pressure than in the plate exchanger, and pressure will seek to equalize, the heated water will migrate into the tank and over time warm the entire tank up to equalize temps and pressures everywhere.

Now once the Misses gets in the shower and takes an hour long rinse off, the bulk of the hot water is evacuated. Now as water is flowing past the heated plates it wicks off the heat and the plate HE then acts more like an instant on demand water heater and the woman of your life remains complaint free.

Make sense?

trackin now
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on September 27, 2018, 09:03:17 AM
Wow, pilut talking physics. Think I recall a lesson on that in your book & how a helicopter defies logic.

Then a lesson on how to keep HH6 complaint free, who’d a thunk it.....

 :tongue:

Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on September 27, 2018, 09:58:57 AM
Hmm, Don is quiet after that info. Hope it works out. Wasn't there a note about using US pipe as in made in Kansas, I think I see a china stamped on that.

Dave, they have crazy burn laws out here. I am not in one the zones though and still have a real fireplace. I also think wood burning for home heating is exempt, was here last I checked. 
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: TexasRedNeck on September 27, 2018, 01:48:31 PM
oh, snap.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on September 27, 2018, 01:59:26 PM
By the way I think its a great idea, same reason I went solar, my summer bills were killing me. NG is reasonable out here and heats the house and soon the pool.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 27, 2018, 03:06:36 PM
Not my shop yet Boss, hopefully sorting those details out Friday
Hope ya get it!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 27, 2018, 03:11:05 PM
And here is the 1" PEX I picked up at Home Depot. It retails for $74 for 100 feet. With my discount I am paying $67 for the roll.

I think I will end up needing three rolls total

Don, sorry to be the bearer of bad news. That pex is for potable water use only, and not to be used in a hydronic system. You need Pex with an "oxygen barrier" for that application. Using the Pex you purchased will promote bacterial  growth, turn the water foul & murky over short time.
Are you sure?

I say that because the boiler system, once it has been properly bled and purged gets a chemical supplement added to it that stops all corrosion. Not sure about bacterial growth, but one has to wonder just how much bacteria is going to be growing in water that does not see the light of day and is above 180F.

I asked several times about the PEX and have been told repeatedly that the regular cheapo white PEX is fine for a boiler application.

I'll ask again.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: DDS on September 27, 2018, 03:17:52 PM
I'm positive. the label on your pex clearly states "for use with potable water only"
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 27, 2018, 03:33:22 PM
I'm positive. the label on your pex clearly states "for use with potable water only"
The tubing complies with ASTM F877-2011a, which I think makes it applicable for hot or cold water and radiant heating systems.

I texted the boiler manufacturer and he said the tubing I am using is fine.

Further, and just to be sure, I have sent an email to Apollo, the manufacturer to get their read in on it.

I think that with the pipe meeting ASTM F877-2011a, that pretty much says it all.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 27, 2018, 03:48:55 PM
This tubing is fine

Take a look at this YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvDxsOE-YOc

Mine is an open system with a vent to the atmosphere
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on September 27, 2018, 04:02:46 PM
Dodged another bullet there it seems, good all around I hope.


Maybe something a little smaller for the farm later? Would be even more self sustaining that way as long as you have chain saws that work,,,,,,,
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 27, 2018, 04:52:54 PM
Dodged another bullet there it seems, good all around I hope.


Maybe something a little smaller for the farm later? Would be even more self sustaining that way as long as you have chain saws that work,,,,,,,
Very funny!

I actually wanted to build my own unit for farm use. Would only need to be half the size of the unit I just purchased to heat the shed, camper and a sensible sized house.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 27, 2018, 04:54:35 PM
Tim texted

Have an inbound on the boiler...Delivery set for Oct 6-7.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on September 27, 2018, 05:07:30 PM
This tubing is fine

Take a look at this YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvDxsOE-YOc

Mine is an open system with a vent to the atmosphere

You can’t trust that guy in the video.....


He’s white and male!  :tongue:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: EL TATE on September 27, 2018, 05:45:59 PM
This tubing is fine

Take a look at this YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvDxsOE-YOc

Mine is an open system with a vent to the atmosphere

You can’t trust that guy in the video.....


He’s white and male!  :tongue:


Bwahahahahahahahahaha!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on September 27, 2018, 06:32:36 PM
But there is just one, not a panel and I think Don could hold his own.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: moto123 on September 28, 2018, 02:20:58 PM
Just to summarize for anyone following along.  The comments made by DDS are definitely true, but in my opinion are not the ONLY solution.  Which is why you are getting conflicting information.  This is a good, better, best situation.  In a commercial installation I agree with DDS, we would recommend oxygen barrier PEX.  It is the best solution.  It reduces the ingress of oxygen to the system prolonging the equipment life, primarily heat exchangers and pumps.  Excess oxygen flowing in a system can cause cavitation on the pump impeller, which will wear out faster.  The bacteria growth, while potentially an issue, I have not seen become a problem that can't be handled by a good water treatment plan.  So I am less concerned about that.  If you don't maintain the water, then yes bad things can happen.  At the opposite end of the spectrum, the good solution if you will, is a completely open hydronic system.  Historically this used to be common before hydro-pneumatic tanks existed.  There is simply a large tank at the top of the system that is kept pressurized either by gravity (located above the rest of the system) or by air pressure from an air compressor.  The tank is half full of boiler water, half air.  This does work, is simple to understand, and is cheap, but eventually the air circulating in the system will wear out and corrode components.  The in between, better solution, is what Don appears to be implementing.  It sounds like he is going to pressurize the system with a hydro-pneumatic tank, use an air eliminator, chemical treatment designed around his boiler and heat exchangers, etc.  But he is probably going to skip some of the last 5% of the details that would get the system to the best category, the oxygen barrier pipe being one of them. 

So the commercial plumbing world should pick the best solution, the average joe DIY garage heating hydronic system can probably get away with the good solution, and everyone else is in the middle.

I do recommend you separate the HWS and HWR piping from touching each other and insulate them.  Also there were concerns about the water temperature before and after the heat exchangers.  The simple formula for the leaving water temperature, assuming you know the other factors, is below.  BTUH is the BTU heat transfer of the heat exchanger per hour.

Entering water temperature - Leaving water temperature = BTUH / (GPM x 500)

Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 28, 2018, 07:37:48 PM
Good to see some discussion and recommendations coming from this

So regarding the use of this PEX, it is THE correct PEX pipe to use with non pressurized, vented to the atmosphere systems like I own. You could use oxygen barrier if you wanted and pay twice the cost of the stuff I am using. If that makes you feel better, I'd say go for it.

Tim has hundreds of these boilers in service...HUNDREDS. All across the midwest and they are plumbed and running with the normal, routine white low cost PEX.

Tim recommends the owner change out the water once a year before the heating season begins. With each "fresh tank" of 300+ gallons, a chemical additive supplements the water to keep the metal and other things from corroding.

This system is not really pressurized. The water will be pumped via two small circulation pumps that have been sized for the rise and fall (elevation) at my home. They simply run all the time. The heated water is always circulating through the lines. If there is a demand for heat, then a thermostat will call on the blower in the air handlers to start which will push air through the HE and distribute it throughout the house.

There is a temp bulb in the water of the boiler tank. When it falls below the preset temp (Something between 180F and 190F, it signals a fan to push air into the burn chamber which "Fires up" the smoldering embers and makes more heat.

The garage heaters are small air handlers which operate according to an adjustable thermostat that I set to the desired temp.

As for the exposed PEX...I addressed that with a couple (5) boiler manufacturers/sellers and they said once you are inside the heated structure, they do not recommend insulating the PEX, as it acts as a cheapo radiant heat source adding additional heat to the rooms. I will insulate the portion that will be routed through the attic and exposed in the garage (Maybe) but that's it.

I think its important to note that these systems are very simple in concept, construction, and operation. I don't think anyone needs to overthink the thing. Just install the parts correctly and allow it to amaze you. Then fine tune as your particular application/desires may dictate.

That's what I think about all this.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on September 28, 2018, 07:40:44 PM
Oh, and I got a reply from an engineer at Apollo, the manufacturer of the PEX I am using. He says the product I am using will work fine in the application. It is commonly used in boiler applications that remain below 200F and are not highly pressurized.

So, folks, it is looking like a preponderance of the evidence points to the regular PEX is well suited to wood fired boiler installations.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 06, 2018, 02:35:12 PM
The boiler was delivered today

Tim personally delivered it and spent a goodly amount of time talking to me about it, its design, operation, installation tips and so forth.

As a take away from all that, my over-riding feeling is: This is simple, nearly bulletproof, and we need not over think it.

Tim is a total gentleman. He is an honorable business man and he delivered on everything he promised. The only negative I see from all of this is...Well, I don't see a negative. So far, the man, his company and this boiler and the purchase process is an A++ (If there is a rating that high.

No pics at the moment, but just wait until you see what you get for the money. This total package has come in at about 50% the cost of the Central Boiler unit. There is just no way that any other unit is worth twice what this quality unit I have costs. The high prices are simply the result of a multi-tiered marketing system, a substantial overhead from larger manufacturing facilities and all the sundry costs. With 7,000+ plus units sold, Tim definitely has it going on.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on October 06, 2018, 02:54:37 PM
 :likebutton:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 06, 2018, 05:58:16 PM
OK, got some pics of the thing
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 06, 2018, 06:01:07 PM
It will sit right outside the small garage on a seasoned concrete pad, where the walkway from the screened porch meets.

Dried wood will be stored just inside the garage door in the heated garage (Read: Dry fuel wood)
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 06, 2018, 06:02:25 PM
Detail of the 24" X 24" front door and the water level indicator
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 06, 2018, 06:03:56 PM
Here is the temp control. By increasing/decreasing the temp here, the solenoid that opens/closes the draft door is controlled
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 06, 2018, 06:04:58 PM
Door and handle is robust!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 06, 2018, 06:05:54 PM
The box contains a spare solenoid that comes with the boiler
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 06, 2018, 06:12:58 PM
It is difficult to see the size and depth of the thing, but here is the actual burn chamber.

What I find really cool about this is that Tim uses vintage Propane storage cylinders, repurposed for the opposite (Keeping fire in) than originally intended. He said most of the tanks he gets are 1950's vintage tanks and are in such good condition that often, when he cuts them apart, the stenciling from more than half a century is still clearly visible on the inside. He says the steels from that time were much better than the steel available today, and the design and thickness of the cylinders makes the tanks perfectly suited to this application. He says with over 7,000 units in service, he has never had a firebox fail or wear out.

The diffuser thing you see is at the top and has an aft facing intake of hot gases. Interestingly only about half of the burn chamber is actually ever used. The idea is to keep a pile of "Coals" up front, raking them there every day, and stacking the new fuel, 3-5 logs on top to provide another 12 hours of heat, and keep the rest of the chamber open to keep maximum surface available for heat transfer.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 06, 2018, 06:14:07 PM
These chemicals keep the water corrosive free and provide for very long life for the boiler
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 06, 2018, 06:15:18 PM
Here is a handy tool that comes with the unit. It is a coal rake used to pull the scattered embers forward into a pile during the daily recontouring of the ember pile
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 06, 2018, 06:16:23 PM
The roof is aluminum, very shiney please!

I'll likely darken mine to keep enemy bombers from getting a good aiming point!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 06, 2018, 06:18:58 PM
That exhaust stack is 8" and soon will be capped with 8" stove pipe sections set about in a reckless and haphazard manner!

The rectangular panel at the bottom of the back side is where the pumps and valves are attached and will live a happy life. Tim says the pumps generally last 10 years or more and dray 1.9 amps each. They will run 24/7
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 06, 2018, 06:20:21 PM
Not related, but here is a stack of my next adirondack chairs. But if I'm not fast enough, these could be the next day's worth of heat! Yikes!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: cruizng on October 06, 2018, 08:10:41 PM
That boiler looks like a keeper.


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Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 06, 2018, 10:21:23 PM
That boiler looks like a keeper.


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I think so

The steel I am seeing is 3/8" thick, some pretty stout stuff

The weight of the boiler, empty of water is 1,800 lbs
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on October 06, 2018, 10:28:21 PM
I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s 3/8 as you stated it was a recycled pane tank. My first shop had a 1/4” plate wood stove (I built it) & I had the top cherry red many times but never burnt it out in 7 years....
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on October 06, 2018, 11:23:46 PM
Saw that nice roof first thing. No leaks there!!

So when you firing that still up?
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 07, 2018, 10:59:08 AM
Saw that nice roof first thing. No leaks there!!

So when you firing that still up?
Still!
Ha!
Hadn't thought of that!
Always wanted to build one, but problem is I don't really drink
But, I always thought it would be cool to see if I could make alcohol for fuel
More of a "Science project" thing than anything else, but would be fun
But no cookin for this thing, just boring old heat. Should see some coals by month's end.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: dave945 on October 07, 2018, 02:18:19 PM
I’d be interested to see how the final install looks and operates, sounds like something that would work for my place as well. Boiler looks to be well constructed and finished.


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Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 07, 2018, 08:13:32 PM
Lets get some more stuff done

Object of today is to get the heater finished off and hopefully get most of the garage heater installed

The 20 plate water heater heat exchanger is ready for connections
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 07, 2018, 08:14:26 PM
If you need to cut this PEX or PVC correctly, I'd recommend purchasing some ratcheting cutters designed for PVC
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 07, 2018, 08:15:13 PM
After cutting into the supply line and rearranging things, here is what I ended up with:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 07, 2018, 08:16:45 PM
The 2 X 6 adds stability to the PVC lines. I used a metal strap/clamp to secure the feed line to the wall via the short piece of 2-by

That finishes up the hot water heater install
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 07, 2018, 08:18:13 PM
Now on to the small garage heater

This unit is rated at 50,000 BTU and should handle the Frau's 24 X 24 X 10 garage
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 07, 2018, 08:19:44 PM
I had to sweat two 1" NPT male adapters onto the copper stubbs
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 07, 2018, 08:21:10 PM
To create a mount, I cut a piece of 2 X 12 which I then bolted to the top with some lengths of all thread and two carriage bolts
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 07, 2018, 08:22:52 PM
Then the wall mount was created. The thing is not too heavy but heavy enough for me to pay attention. I'll screw it to the wall in several places then likely add a chain screwed into the roof to take the stress off the wall
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 07, 2018, 08:25:24 PM
After measuring the house a bunch of times and creating a detailed sketch of where things were located, I marked those locations onto the wall then chose a spot to make some holes to route the PEX into her garage from below and up to the heater unit

The smallish piece of CPVC is only a probe used to mark and identify the hole I just drilled. It came out in about a perfect place!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: TexasRedNeck on October 07, 2018, 08:47:34 PM
I’ll tell you that one of the best gifts I ever got was one of those ratcheting cutters!!!

Heating the garage does not really compute. I’m not sure they make a wood fired AC for my house....


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Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: dave945 on October 07, 2018, 09:09:16 PM
I bought one of those ratcheting cutters when I bought a bunch of pvc for the kids to play with and creat things. I cut a bunch of pieces for them to have of different length. My hands were killing me afterwards, but I think I did about 70 cuts to get all the pieces I wanted done.  Clean cuts and no mess.


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Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 08, 2018, 09:52:08 AM
I’ll tell you that one of the best gifts I ever got was one of those ratcheting cutters!!!

Heating the garage does not really compute. I’m not sure they make a wood fired AC for my house....


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Heated Garage?

Hers: She does not like the cold, go figure, so I am being the good husband

My garage: In the past I have had to fire up a kerosene burning torpedo. I like to work in there in the winter. I plan to paint things this winter. This will provide a heated working area with no fumes.

And, really, the extra heat is free!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: TexasRedNeck on October 08, 2018, 10:24:12 AM
I think my point was it doesn’t get cold here. I need AC in my garage....


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Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 08, 2018, 10:31:05 AM
Oh
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on October 08, 2018, 01:52:28 PM
TRN, you mean it doesn't get "that cold". Funny I have to both heat and cool mine.

Don, in post 119 it looks like that small drain line is going up before it attaches to the main line. Is that the picture or an issue?

I have a big set and a small set of those cutters, work good.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 08, 2018, 03:46:53 PM
TRN, you mean it doesn't get "that cold". Funny I have to both heat and cool mine.

Don, in post 119 it looks like that small drain line is going up before it attaches to the main line. Is that the picture or an issue?

I have a big set and a small set of those cutters, work good.
JR, Looking at that post all I see is the smallish piece of 1/2" CPVC that is sticking up through a hole. THat will not be used for anything, i just shoved it through there so I could easily see the exit hole on the garage side...
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on October 08, 2018, 05:03:36 PM
I was referring to the pvc drain line, not your new stuff.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: KensAuto on October 08, 2018, 07:22:34 PM
I think JR is referring to the line next to your probe. It doesn't look like it has any drop to it...horizontally, left to right.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on October 08, 2018, 09:58:15 PM
I think JR is referring to the line next to your probe. It doesn't look like it has any drop to it...horizontally, left to right.


 :shocked:

 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 09, 2018, 12:03:18 PM
I think JR is referring to the line next to your probe. It doesn't look like it has any drop to it...horizontally, left to right.
Copy that
Well, I've been in the house 11 years, so I'm not going to be changing anything I don't need to...
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 09, 2018, 12:51:29 PM
Here, I am bringing the supply line from the water heater plate unit to its final date with destiny, the small garage heater
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 09, 2018, 12:53:49 PM
I then installed the PEX female to 1" NPT fittings onto the heater unit in preparation to hang it
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 09, 2018, 12:55:46 PM
The supply line pulled through the wall. It will be cut off and fitted with a 90 degree fitting to help tuck it in closer to the wall.

I could not run the lines inside of the wall because they are stuffed with insulation, so this is the next best thing.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 09, 2018, 12:56:42 PM
Then I mounted the heater a good distance from the ceiling and floor
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 09, 2018, 12:57:56 PM
In addition to catching three studs with several screws each, I also mounted a cable support to carry some of the weight
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 09, 2018, 01:00:08 PM
Then came the easy part, hooking up the supply and return lines and zip-tying those together.

All that is left to do here is run some romex and add in an outlet so I can plug the thing in
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 09, 2018, 01:01:48 PM
These fittings are way big and take a lot of heat, so I picked up a MAP torch to accommodate

New tools are nice!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 09, 2018, 01:03:06 PM
This is the main heat exchanger for the lower unit. I soldered and screwed on the required fittings in preparation to install that unit for good
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 09, 2018, 01:04:50 PM
I then went onto some experimentation of what a wood cover might look like. I am looking at some easier way to be able to R&R the unit in the future or pull it for cleaning. Something screwed together would meet that requirement
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 09, 2018, 01:08:03 PM
I do not know if I will end up going with that, but I may.

So, I crimped on the hot water supply lines to the unit and placed it in the plenum where it will live. Just a little tape will seal that thing, so the jury is out on how best to do it at the moment. The long lines allow me to slide the thing out without having to disconnect anything.

The air filter is installed and temporarily covered with a narrow strip of pine
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 09, 2018, 01:10:16 PM
So these two lines will connect to the buried line from the boiler and complete the plumbing circuit.

So if you were setting up a smaller house with just one heater, you would be nearly done at this point

But for me, I have the second loop to install yet, and its going to be much more difficult. I am NOT looking forward to working on that.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on October 09, 2018, 01:28:10 PM
Nice job so far.

Be careful of those pipes by the fuse panel. They get touchy about that sometimes.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 09, 2018, 02:45:48 PM
Nice job so far.

Be careful of those pipes by the fuse panel. They get touchy about that sometimes.
Good point
I'm good
and
No inspections...
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on October 10, 2018, 01:13:44 AM
Didn't figure any inspection.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on October 10, 2018, 08:50:34 AM
Inspections.....

I think we’re more critical than most inspectors!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 10, 2018, 09:06:06 AM
Inspections.....

I think we’re more critical than most inspectors!
:likebutton:
Yep

And

That's a good thing
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 10, 2018, 09:51:35 AM
Just some boring stuff...

Ran the electrical line for the small garage heater

I put a master switch in the circuit then a GFCI plug receptacle. I ran a 20 amp circuit which I think will be plenty. Both pumps of the boiler pull 1.9 amps each. Then there's the solenoid which will operate some of the time, then the two fan motors which also pull a low amperage
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 10, 2018, 10:45:44 AM
Hmmm, got a sideways pic...Well, I don't care!

Just like HD not to have the receptacle cover I needed

I'll cover this up in the days to come
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 10, 2018, 10:47:45 AM
The lines are collecting here but this will all tidy up as I make the connections to the exterior

I ran a 12-2 wire and picked up a compatible breaker for the panel to complete the circuit
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 11, 2018, 09:34:42 PM
In the middle of tackling the hard part, plumbing in the attic spaces

It is a bit slow going because of all the blown in insulation, dirty conditions and difficulty moving about.

I also cannot find any 1" PEX foam insulation. I'll need that to wrap the pipe as it is really out in the open albeit under a roof. I can see about how things are going to map out so that's positive at least. But on the flip side of that statement is the actual work of pulling that pex across the attic spaces which is not easy

I'll get some pics up tomorrow, but I am currently tackling the installation of the heat exchanger into the upper air handler.

The prospective builder should note that for a "Normal" house, one would not have to run two circuits like I am having to do here simply because most "Normal" houses do not have two HVAC units.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bob Smith on October 11, 2018, 10:46:35 PM
You could cut insulation batts into strips and use zip ties to hold it against the Pex pipe. Is the air handler up in the attic or you just running supply across the attic? My air handler in AZ is in the attic. When time to replace it either the ceiling gets cut to remove and replace, or just rebuild the existing unit wear parts which might be the easy way.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on October 12, 2018, 04:50:26 AM
Wouldn't 3/4 pipe insulation fit over the 1 inch about right?
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 12, 2018, 09:26:35 AM
You could cut insulation batts into strips and use zip ties to hold it against the Pex pipe. Is the air handler up in the attic or you just running supply across the attic? My air handler in AZ is in the attic. When time to replace it either the ceiling gets cut to remove and replace, or just rebuild the existing unit wear parts which might be the easy way.
I plan to use the poly foam either 1/2" or 3/4" thickness

And no, I do not believe the 3/4" will encapsulate the 1" PEX. It looks like the correct stuff is 1 1/8" ID
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 13, 2018, 04:31:57 PM
Working on the upstairs heat exchanger installation, I prefitted some sections of PEX with 90 degree fittings
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 13, 2018, 04:33:20 PM
This area is much more confined than the wide open lower unit was to work around.

But it has the attic access right there, so that is a big plus
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 13, 2018, 04:35:19 PM
I started by using a hole saw to make my holes, then screwed a hardwood board over the holes, then redrilled them from above. The purpose of that is to create a strong ceiling structure that will not impinge the drywall sheets
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 13, 2018, 04:37:50 PM
The roof cavity is a dust place filled with insulation. I mounted a 2 X 6 between two roof trusses, then drilled holes through the board then slipped the PEX lead through the 2X6, then through the ceiling board to create a vibration free, strong installation
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 13, 2018, 04:39:27 PM
Next up I prepped the 18" X 20" heat exchanger with the proper fittings

It will be mounted into the area below the "A" coil
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 13, 2018, 04:41:04 PM
Having selected my spot, I marked it out, then cut my H-slot, then bent back the tabs
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 13, 2018, 04:43:21 PM
Now the idea here is to create a shelf from the folded out tabs, but in this case, they interfered with the flange on the HE so I cut them back, and wrapped the cut out with 100mph tape to prevent cuts (On ME!!)
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 13, 2018, 04:44:53 PM
Then I created a ledge on either side with some aluminum angle that is pop riveted to the plenum walls
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 13, 2018, 04:45:54 PM
That provided a perfect shelf for the HE to rest on, so I installed that next
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 13, 2018, 04:47:16 PM
...And made the hot water line connections
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 13, 2018, 04:49:01 PM
Then, after cutting an access into the wall in another room's closet, we pulled the PEX all over the attic cavity
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 13, 2018, 04:52:46 PM
I had the pre-Rangers cover the lines with some poly foam I picked up at SLOWES

In this secluded cavity of my wandering attic, the lines penetrate the drywall out into the main garage space. This will eventually make you happy.

Why you, you ask?

Because in that now heated garage, many more disinteresting pics will be taken of many more abandoned projects, which will at least entertain for you for the moment
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 13, 2018, 04:54:18 PM
We managed to run the other end of the lines to the other side of the roof, where they make a turn downward through the soffet to the outside where I will connect to lines close to the boiler
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on October 13, 2018, 05:18:24 PM
Getting there pretty nice. I was thinking of building the slide for the exchanger the same way as you posted.

As a thought, have you thought about using quick disconnects on the lines for maintenance? You could secure the lines better and still have access. It is low pressure so the only issue would be flow.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 13, 2018, 10:34:25 PM
Getting there pretty nice. I was thinking of building the slide for the exchanger the same way as you posted.

As a thought, have you thought about using quick disconnects on the lines for maintenance? You could secure the lines better and still have access. It is low pressure so the only issue would be flow.
I did JR
But the heat exchangers shouldn't have to be looked out for the next ten years. I will however pull the hot water heater and clean annually, but my plan there is to just release the stainless clamp to disconnect the lines, then reclamp them back on afterward. Every once in awhile, I'll cut 1/2" off the end of the line to get to fresh PEX to get a good seal when reclamping.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: KensAuto on October 13, 2018, 11:14:17 PM
Then I created a ledge on either side with some aluminum angle that is pop riveted to the plenum walls
Surprised JR didn't ask you why your heater looked like it once had 30 gallons of water in it.
(I assume the drain plugged up at one time? condensation?)
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on October 13, 2018, 11:38:55 PM
Surprised JR didn't ask you why your heater looked like it once had 30 gallons of water in it.
(I assume the drain plugged up at one time? condensation?)

I saw that but forgot to ask,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 14, 2018, 06:16:24 PM
Then I created a ledge on either side with some aluminum angle that is pop riveted to the plenum walls
Surprised JR didn't ask you why your heater looked like it once had 30 gallons of water in it.
(I assume the drain plugged up at one time? condensation?)
Korrekt!

So most of the summer I kept hearing water dripping, when it was quiet

So one day I investigated and was shocked to find that much standing water.

I drilled a quick 3/8" hole in the bottom and solved the problem

Can you believe that!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: dave945 on October 14, 2018, 07:15:09 PM
That’s a lot of water.

When are you expecting to fire up the boiler?  I built fires in the fireplaces last night, but you have to keep those fed. The idea of the boiler is very tempting, I had looked at them before but now that we are in the new house even more tempting with electric heat.


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Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on October 14, 2018, 07:21:00 PM
Are going to address that rust before you are done?
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 14, 2018, 07:28:21 PM
That’s a lot of water.

When are you expecting to fire up the boiler?  I built fires in the fireplaces last night, but you have to keep those fed. The idea of the boiler is very tempting, I had looked at them before but now that we are in the new house even more tempting with electric heat.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Dave, I should be burning wood by the end of the month. I am getting closer by the day. Tasks yet to complete:
1. Run circuit to breaker panel
2. Run underground wiring to boiler and wires to the second garage heater
3. Bury the PEX outside lines
4. Construct a PEX/PVC heat pipe to connect to roof
5. Punch a hole in the foundation and connect PEX
6. Attach pumps and plumbing fixtures to back of boiler
7. Fill with water and purge system of air
8. Start heating with dead ash trees! ;-)))

Fueling is a 2X per day exercise 0800/2000
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 14, 2018, 07:30:33 PM
Are going to address that rust before you are done?
I didn't
Wasn't really thinking about it
But
Now
You have me thinking about it...SHould have done something...
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 14, 2018, 07:34:44 PM
BTW, Folks, talked to Tim and asked if he ever saw any used units. Apparently he does, trade-ins or something like that. THose cost less, just sayin'

Secondly, I mentioned the wide scattering of you Real Men site belongin' peeps. He said he would be willing to meet some half way to deliver. For those in Florida, Texas, and other distant locals. JR, we didn't discuss Kalifornia, but heck you'd have to get permission from the environmental commissar and that would simply be impossible anyway, so no real need to sell into the commune of Kali
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on October 14, 2018, 07:53:00 PM
I want to see how this works but it would not work here just for getting the wood all the time.

Seeing the pipe in the attic, will that be supported somehow? A lot of weight there with water in there.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on October 14, 2018, 09:51:23 PM
Wait? You’re burying the outside lines now?  :huh:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 14, 2018, 10:54:42 PM
I want to see how this works but it would work here just for getting the wood all the time.

Seeing the pipe in the attic, will that be supported somehow? A lot of weight there with water in there.
Yea, I am screwing hold downs where the pipe crosses truss members. Almost done!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 16, 2018, 10:08:37 AM
So we finished installing and wrapping the pipes in the attic spaces and securing them to rafter members with clamps.
We then fashioned a piece of OSB to fit the backside of the big garage wall which will support the PEX so that it doesn't tug at the drywall.

With all that done, next up is the installation of the big garage heater. I plan to hang it so first we installed eye-bolts to the top panel. After removing the screws, the panel underside was accessible. I used Nylon locking nuts on the inside and flange nuts on the top side to lock it all together
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 16, 2018, 10:09:54 AM
Just like before the unit was built up with soldered on 1" NPT male stubs, then fitted with a brass PEX adapter
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 16, 2018, 10:12:31 AM
Then I created a base plate made from OSB to catch the various framing members and serve as a strong base. To those I attached 2 X 6 boards with eye bolts screwed into place, and braced all that. Some of that is screwed all the way into the parent framing inside the wall. It is plenty strong
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 16, 2018, 10:13:44 AM
Not knowing exactly how I would suspend the unit, I started with doubled rubber bungee straps.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 16, 2018, 10:15:53 AM
Rubber; because I was thinking of isolating the sounds the heater may make from the bedroom just above.

When we hung the unit, it did not hang level, so I moved the front eye-bolt aft, and it still hung backside low
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 16, 2018, 10:17:35 AM
Next up I experimented with used trampoline steel springs. The nose up attitude of the unit did not change. At this point, I set the project aside for the evening to give me some "Think time" to sort through this some more.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 16, 2018, 10:19:15 AM
Next up is the construction of the outside piping. I'll need to connect these pipes to a vertical transition vicinity the gutter drain piping.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 16, 2018, 10:24:02 AM
I think I'll transition the pipe under the soffit to the right, then join it to the down section.

Right now the design of the transition pipe (I am thinking) will be two PEX pipes wrapped in insulation, fitted inside of a PVC pipe that is then filled with poly foam. I'll install 90 degree fittings at the junctures and pray for no leaks. I'll probably have to build the thing up as a single long assembly so that I can later drop it during installation and break it along with something else of value.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 16, 2018, 10:24:45 AM
Time to replace this aging appendage of a light. 11 years has killed it!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 16, 2018, 10:21:06 PM
OK, time to build that pipe to connect to the soffit.

Here are the parts for this thing I invented:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 16, 2018, 10:24:03 PM
The concept of the operation is to use the 3" PVC as a outer case to house the two PEX (inlet/outlet) and insulate the whole thing, then mount it as an assembly to the side of the house

You would be wiser to choose a butt whipping than to tackle trying to stuff this relatively unbendable 1" PEX into a place it does not want to go, which seems to be just about anywhere!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 16, 2018, 10:27:21 PM
Its amazing how those three preceding pics make it all seem like it's nothing at all. But those were staged pics after the both of us fought like sumo wrestlers to get that pex stuff into that 90 degree configuration

Next we fitted (Glued) two endcaps to the pipe assembly to finish each end
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 16, 2018, 10:31:06 PM
The plan was to fill the entire cavity of the 3" PVC and the two PEX pipes with poly foam to add the insulating factor I need because the assembly will be hanging on an outside wall

I drilled a 5/16"hole about every 18" to even out the distribution of the foam, give it a weep hole, and increase the likelihood that I'd drill into the PEX by mistake
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 16, 2018, 10:33:37 PM
So as I pumped the foam into the cavity, I'd do so until the stuff started to weep from the next hole inline, then repeat the process going downline from end to end. I pumped five cans of the stuff into that cavity and as you can see, got good distribution of the mess crap!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 16, 2018, 10:35:24 PM
Over the next hour the stuff got really active and pushed out some pretty big mushrooms for the pup to chew on in the morning.

In fact when I trimmed off the "Mushroom" the stuff continued to expand out of the hole!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 16, 2018, 10:37:19 PM
I decided to let that just sit out all night and get to mounting it to the wall tomorrow midday sometime

Mean while I went back to the big garage heater, continuing to experiment on how best to hang it. I tried this criss-cross next before redoing the whole geometry of the suspension system
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 16, 2018, 10:38:59 PM
^^^ That looked flimsy to me, so I moved the eyebolts outboard, and closer together, then supported the aft of the unit with two additional bungees which made for a very secure mounting that makes me happy.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 16, 2018, 10:41:43 PM
Lacking enough 90 degree fittings to completely connect the unit to the supply/drain lines, I did what I could. This PEX system makes for a very clean installation
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 16, 2018, 10:44:46 PM
Next, I cut into the lines in the basement and installed two full flow brass valves to keep things dry when I pull it down for maintenance
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 16, 2018, 10:47:48 PM
I scored some aluminum duct tape at SLOWES, so I taped in both HE units sealing them well to the cabinets they live in

I think I map tape a piece of bat insulation over the exposed end in time, but for now I am in full court press mode to get the system all designed and hooked up
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 16, 2018, 10:50:04 PM
On to the outside of the house, I started drilling holes for the clamps I picked up which will hold the pipe assembly to the side of the house with TapCon screws
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on October 17, 2018, 03:19:15 AM
Looks like a good days work, bet the rangers got a workout.

Hey, I have a little more hair than you!!!   :wink:

Oh, have I said how much I hate drum brakes yet,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: DDS on October 17, 2018, 07:19:54 AM
I may be a day late & a dollar short, but if you ever run anything on the exterior of the house, consider this stuff:
https://www.rectorseal.com/fortress-standard-professional-grade-duct-fittings-moderate-price-point/
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 17, 2018, 08:06:02 AM
I may be a day late & a dollar short, but if you ever run anything on the exterior of the house, consider this stuff:
https://www.rectorseal.com/fortress-standard-professional-grade-duct-fittings-moderate-price-point/

That's very nice

But, yea, day late to be exact!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 17, 2018, 07:09:11 PM
Well, got some more stuff done today.

First up, after buying some more 90 degree fittings, I finished the large garage heater water line installation. All that remains now is to run an electrical circuit out there to plug the thing into.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 17, 2018, 07:10:51 PM
Then after some finagling and loads of help from the pre-rangers, we hoisted that pipe assembly and fastened it to the wall
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 17, 2018, 07:14:25 PM
I don't think it looks too out of place...

I was going to paint it the same color as the trim, but frankly with the cooler temps I was concerned with everything drying enough to be rough handled and scraped about while installing.

Getting those stubby ends of PEX ot bend to align was nearly impossible.

So I invented a tool to help me. I call it the "InHuman bending tool" since the amount of strength required to bend a 10" section of PEX is beyond human abilities
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 17, 2018, 07:15:30 PM
The connections were eventually made on that 8/12 "ski slope" roof.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 17, 2018, 07:16:12 PM
And wrapped with foam insulation
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on October 18, 2018, 01:34:56 AM
That looks pretty good for an add on.

 :likebutton:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: KensAuto on October 18, 2018, 05:24:19 PM
Not too shabby boss.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on October 18, 2018, 06:12:19 PM
I’m shocked, where’s the upgrades from stock? You know a higher pressure pump or suped up intake and exhaust?
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: TexasRedNeck on October 19, 2018, 06:16:28 AM
Pretty sweet there, Chief.  How close to firing it up?  And I need to get a couple of those ladder stand offs


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Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 21, 2018, 12:15:46 PM
I’m shocked, where’s the upgrades from stock? You know a higher pressure pump or suped up intake and exhaust?
Just wait, you won't be disappointed...I'll make Tim Allen proud!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 21, 2018, 12:17:53 PM
Pretty sweet there, Chief.  How close to firing it up?  And I need to get a couple of those ladder stand offs


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Close
Spent three days farmside, werkin' and huntin with the murderous pre-rangers. They tore through the native squirrel population...Then had to eat them!

So I have to do some diggin' n' plumbin' n' wirin' n' bustin holes in concrete, n' stuff like that, then we will be cookin' with bacon grease!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 24, 2018, 08:57:12 AM
I collected a small pile of nipples, street elbows, bushings, ball valves, adapters, an anode and some other things to do the plumbing and pump install onto the boiler. I'll get to that in a bit, after some more pond buildin'...
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 03, 2018, 06:33:31 PM
Still pecking away at this thing. I could have easily finished it by now, but I've spend a good amount of time at the farm breaking things there.

Today I spliced into the upstairs bedroom outlets and light feed to power the big garage fan/ heat exchanger.

After completing the wiring in the roof cavity/attic area it was time to bring the power out to the garage through the wall. I am using the standard 3/4" electrical conduit
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 03, 2018, 06:34:28 PM
Pulling the 12-2 wire is nobody's fun thing to do!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 03, 2018, 06:36:02 PM
The concept here is to run the hot lead down to this switch, mounted on the garage wall at a comfortable height. That switch powers an outlet located near the heater that I can plug in to.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 03, 2018, 06:37:32 PM
No, I did not walk beneath the ladder!

Then it was just the standard wiring busy work to get it all wired up and properly mounted
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 03, 2018, 06:48:06 PM
I had a bunch of the foam pipe insulation left over from the attic work, so I might as well stick it onto the pipe that is in areas which may be cold.

So Now comes the part where I need to punch a hole through the foundation wall, all 10" of it to get the outdoor PEX connected to the lines for the primary loop. Beyond that, I need to bury those PEX lines and make the plumbing connections at the boiler. That is not as simple as just fitting a ninety degree street elbow and calling it a day. In all I have two pumps, and well over a hundred dollars worth of fittings and valves all required to plumb this thing the way Tim recommends. After that I'll only need to attach a chimney pipe, fill with water and stoke up a fire.

Oh and figure out how to add a second thermostat to the system so that I can control the boiler and keep the boiler temp threshold five degrees or so above the existing electrical system

What I end up with is now called a hybrid system. SHould the wood heat ever cease, then the electrical heat pump side of things will kick in and keep us warm.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 03, 2018, 06:49:47 PM
Oh, I test ran the overhead heater in the big garage. It really puts out a bunch of air flow. I can see it heating that cube PDQ. I look forward to nice heat without the kerosene fumes this winter...YIPPEE!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: TexasRedNeck on November 03, 2018, 06:59:49 PM
Oh, I test ran the overhead heater in the big garage. It really puts out a bunch of air flow. I can see it heating that cube PDQ. I look forward to nice heat without the risk of blowing myself up this winter...YIPPEE!

FIFY
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on November 03, 2018, 07:11:04 PM
Sounds like plumbing a heli.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 03, 2018, 07:30:47 PM
Oh, I test ran the overhead heater in the big garage. It really puts out a bunch of air flow. I can see it heating that cube PDQ. I look forward to nice heat without the risk of blowing myself up this winter...YIPPEE!

FIFY
Good fix!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 04, 2018, 06:05:28 PM
Time now to plumb in the business end of the boiler

Everything sits below this flat panel which is retained by these nice stainless/plastic thumb screws
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 04, 2018, 06:07:19 PM
When Tim delivered the unit, he spent a goodly amount of time with me explaining everything. He labeled the various ports while we talked

First I'll add in the drain assembly containing the 42" sacrificial anode rod
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 04, 2018, 06:08:07 PM
Just to give you an idea how large these 1" NPT fittings actually are:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 04, 2018, 06:09:57 PM
Most things, well all things affixing to the boiler water jacket start with a 1" NPT nipple. I use the teflon pipe dope on both thread surfaces
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 04, 2018, 06:11:11 PM
To that I added a "T" and a spigot to a bushing so I could drain the tank annually, then another bushing to fit the 3/4" NPT Anode
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 04, 2018, 06:12:05 PM
Slide and screw in the Anode and this assembly is complete
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 04, 2018, 06:14:25 PM
Next up is the water return port which is located on the very top of the tank. The idea is to introduce the coldest water (Still very warm) to the hottest region of the water jacket to provide for PDQ heatin'

Tin provides you with a nipple, elbow, and maybe a 30" section of 1" pipe to serve as your connection point.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 04, 2018, 06:15:45 PM
The return assembly/manifold begins with a big brass ball valve
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 04, 2018, 06:18:18 PM
Then is a build of nipples, "T"s, bushings, street elbows, another spigot (To drain) and finishes with two 1" PEX brass nipples that will connect to the subterranean PEX
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 04, 2018, 06:21:06 PM
That leaves adding in two pumps, one for each circuit/loop of my more complex system. Note that a normal installation would use only one pump, and in fact use a smaller pump. Because of the elevation change of this setup, I opted for two of the large pumps which can be switched to one of three different flow rates. Even at the highest rate, the thing only draws 2.0 amps
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 04, 2018, 06:22:44 PM
These things are very high quality and are rated for continuous operation with a minimum service life of 10 years. Many peeps out there are going to 15 years or better with these.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 04, 2018, 06:24:47 PM
Tim's boilers are fitted with two ports so you can heat two different things, like say, your house, and your shed/barn. Or your home, shed and driveway, or just about anything you can run a line to.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 04, 2018, 06:25:58 PM
Getting out of the tank is as simple as a nipple and a 90 degree street elbow
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 04, 2018, 06:27:54 PM
Next you screw on one of the supplied ball valve/flange assembly. These attach to either end of the pump and seal with an O-ring and a thick rubber gasket as well.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 04, 2018, 06:31:21 PM
The 7/16" stainless hardware attaches at a slight angle. I found it best to bolt on the lower flange to the pump, then slide all that bees-wax into place at the top flange.

The pump obviously needs to be aligned with the intended flow direction as indicated by the arrow cast into the volute housing
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 04, 2018, 06:32:47 PM
And here it is, with all pumps, valves and fittings. Not too compact and not too spread out. I'd call it just about right.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 04, 2018, 06:33:50 PM
I still need to wire it all in, but this it it for now until a hole and a couple of PEX lines shows up
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on November 04, 2018, 06:34:01 PM
Looks like a reactor you setting up. Rods, cooling, pumps,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 04, 2018, 06:35:53 PM
I'll have to cause some pain and injury to my wallet once again here.

That stub will get a base unit, followed by 3-4 chimney sections and a cap along with some support system to keep it all in the up and up when I bang into it with the mower.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 04, 2018, 06:36:57 PM
Looks like a reactor you setting up. Rods, cooling, pumps,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
It was built in Japan, fukushima or somewhere like that...
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on November 04, 2018, 06:46:10 PM
Naw, we just blew them up!!

Looks good.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on November 04, 2018, 06:48:52 PM
Or oak ridge......
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: KensAuto on November 04, 2018, 11:35:16 PM
Looks like a heavy duty set up, especially the pumps... awesome.
... except I thought the black insulation looked like some kind of GLO welds, at first glance of the first pic of the boiler. (around the bungs) ha!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 05, 2018, 08:51:27 AM
Looks like a heavy duty set up, especially the pumps... awesome.
... except I thought the black insulation looked like some kind of GLO welds, at first glance of the first pic of the boiler. (around the bungs) ha!
You two are just relentless!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 05, 2018, 08:52:40 AM
I've been avoiding it, but sooner than later, I need to do some digging...
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on November 05, 2018, 10:25:08 AM
I've been avoiding it, but sooner than later, I need to do some digging...

Calling young pre rangers....
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on November 05, 2018, 10:26:04 AM
Looks like a heavy duty set up, especially the pumps... awesome.
... except I thought the black insulation looked like some kind of GLO welds, at first glance of the first pic of the boiler. (around the bungs) ha!

It’s ok, I imagine it’s just your eyesight failing you. Mine probably would too if I had to look at H everyday
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Sammconn on November 05, 2018, 02:30:12 PM
I've been avoiding it, but sooner than later, I need to do some digging...

Calling young pre rangers....
Work with the kids backs not your own...
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: rpar86 on November 05, 2018, 05:19:54 PM
Just bring Chief down from the hide, that will make the digging take no time at all!

Maybe time to invest in a mini-ex for the small stuff around the farm?  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: EL TATE on November 05, 2018, 05:49:33 PM
Don and the pre-ranger getting ready to dig the trench for the PEX lines:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on November 05, 2018, 06:36:19 PM
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: KensAuto on November 05, 2018, 07:40:15 PM
Bahaha. That's pretty funny Tate.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: cudakidd53 on November 05, 2018, 08:48:25 PM
 :likebutton:  Good one Tate
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bob Smith on November 05, 2018, 09:31:33 PM
Don, why dig, just lay the pex, cover with dirt and bark and call it a raised shrub bed.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 05, 2018, 09:49:31 PM
Don, why dig, just lay the pex, cover with dirt and bark and call it a raised shrub bed.
Hmmm...
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 05, 2018, 09:54:44 PM
Well, I'm pondering the chimney

It will be an eight inch affair, but since its outside, I am wondering if I should create it out of the dual wall stainless duravent pipe which is really costly (over $200 per section, five required). Or could I use the standard chimney pipe for one tenth that price. All I need to do is to get the smoke above the roofline and high enough where it will draft properly and not smoke me out.

Opinions?
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bob Smith on November 05, 2018, 10:02:18 PM
Double wall insulated  pipe is used to keep things around it from burning. And you have what "AIR" around yours???
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on November 05, 2018, 11:21:20 PM
Standard chimney pipe is fine, you want to upgrade it add some decent high temp paint. Stuff it’s coated with factory is crap.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 06, 2018, 08:52:10 AM
OK, men, sound advice and what I was thinking.

I was going to use that dark green stove paint on the pipe sections to hide it down some more so the hippies won't so easily see it.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 06, 2018, 09:19:02 AM
Just ordered the paint. Same stuff (Stove Bright) I used on my wood burning stove farmside. That paint held up great, no flaking, peeling or color change.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 08, 2018, 07:52:38 AM
Today, I wired in the circuit using the old one for the discarded electrostatic air filter. I used an existing circuit for the main garage heater because it's two floors and several walls away. But for the small garage and boiler demands I will utilize this new circuit
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 08, 2018, 07:55:35 AM
That didn't take too long. I chased that by pulling the 12-2 wire for the outside install and then got about the business of running the water lines through the house wall

In the final analysis it seemed smartest to just poke out one of the bricks and therefore not have to hammer through 10" of reinforced concrete. But first I had to go through quite a bit of insulation. This wall is built on 2 X 8's so it makes for a pretty deep cavity
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 08, 2018, 07:56:31 AM
Look at all that stuff that I dug out!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 08, 2018, 07:57:48 AM
After that I started making some holes through the next few layers
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 08, 2018, 07:59:56 AM
Next I drilled a few pilot holes (get it? A pilot drilling a hole = Pilot hole ;-))

Then with a couple chisels I opened up a rectangular hole about the size of a 3 X 5 card
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 08, 2018, 08:01:42 AM
The idea is to place a bulkhead on both the inside and outside which holds and stabilizes the pipes, then fill the void with expanding foam. These panels are part one of that process.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 08, 2018, 08:02:39 AM
I used both ISB (Inside board) and OSB (Outside board) ;-))
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 08, 2018, 08:03:53 AM
And just like that I had a connection shapin' up
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 08, 2018, 08:05:34 AM
I removed the railing so the grand kids could fall off and practice their PLF's in the rocky debris below, then fastened on the outside plate
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 08, 2018, 08:07:03 AM
I found it necessary to screw on a truss over the top of the lines to keep it all from moving and tucked in nicely
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 08, 2018, 08:08:26 AM
Then I drilled a 1/4" hole and let the stick expandin' stuff fly. It got all over everything, but luckily nothing that was not important!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 08, 2018, 08:12:16 AM
The democrats use tons of that stuff to fill in the gaps of their credibility and integrity, so at this time of year (election) you will have a very hard time finding some.

I heard that this year that mr. trump had actually bought several million cans of the stuff which he turned around and sold back to democratic candidates for a profit which he later used to finance his senatorial wins!

Smart guy!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 08, 2018, 08:13:22 AM
With some time remaining before the EM (evenin' madness) set in I wrapped some more hot water pipes
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 08, 2018, 08:15:34 AM
the next morning, 12 hours later that pesky foam expanded into what astronomers call a "Globular cluster." Funny how I captured the stellar concept so easily all within the confines of a dusty workshop! Science sometimes just seems to come out in the oddest of ways!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 08, 2018, 08:16:46 AM
^^^ Or is that a poodle sitting on its haunches starin' at cha? ^^^^
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 08, 2018, 08:18:07 AM
^^^^ Or a sheep starin' at its shepherd who is talkin' with an angel about the birth of Jesus? ^^^^^^
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 08, 2018, 08:19:00 AM
^^^^^Or Nate on the couch after a second bowl of that tortellini stuff? ^^^^^^
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 08, 2018, 08:19:34 AM
^^^^^Or Tex after too many fajitas? ^^^^
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 08, 2018, 08:20:08 AM
^^^^^ Or any Air Force warrior gettin' ready for their PT test? ^^^^^^
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 08, 2018, 08:20:18 AM
Or.......
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Nate on November 08, 2018, 08:49:06 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

did you have a little bourbon cream with your evening coffee?
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: dave945 on November 08, 2018, 09:16:28 AM
^^^^^ Or any Air Force warrior gettin' ready for their PT test? ^^^^^^
Hey, hey , hey!!!  No need to get mean spirited.  That looks nothing like any of my airman sitting at sick call.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 08, 2018, 09:38:37 AM
^^^^^ Or any Air Force warrior gettin' ready for their PT test? ^^^^^^
Hey, hey , hey!!!  No need to get mean spirited.  That looks nothing like any of my airman sitting at sick call.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Just kiddin, that's all.

Army DNA: tell jokes about all other services, especially the Army Air Corps! ;-)
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Nate on November 08, 2018, 10:02:15 AM
lets not forget about our department of the navy folks!
Title: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: dave945 on November 08, 2018, 10:24:18 AM
You wouldn’t believe how many airmen I knew that would come up with “sprained” ankles around the time of the annual PT test. It was plain silly. 

And now back to our regularly schedule program, “Don builds a better fireplace”

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Nate on November 08, 2018, 10:53:30 AM
Hey now.....he dot'd his own thread, were just following suit.

Come on airman, you gotta keep up
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on November 08, 2018, 11:15:19 AM
Has anything happened besides foam stuck on Don's hands?
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Nate on November 08, 2018, 11:37:47 AM
Maybe he was testing the hardness of the concrete again
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 08, 2018, 01:14:36 PM
Has anything happened besides foam stuck on Don's hands?
Lines. Man, Lines!

They got poked through to the outside. Hashtag: Major development!

Or not so much...
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Sammconn on November 08, 2018, 09:37:49 PM
Sounds like you’ve already decided.
You don’t need the insulated pipe outside. That’s just to keep wooden bits from burning.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 09, 2018, 09:01:04 AM
Sounds like you’ve already decided.
You don’t need the insulated pipe outside. That’s just to keep wooden bits from burning.
Yes, I did

I'll use standard 8" stove pipe, properly painted and secured with a cap
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: dave945 on November 09, 2018, 11:02:48 AM
Can’t wait to see how this works out for you. Saw the “aux heat” indicator on the thermostat the other night. Think there might be an issue with that heat pump, the newer one didn’t seem to have any issues at the same time keeping up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: BobbyB on November 09, 2018, 07:30:18 PM
and practice their PLF's in the rocky debris below

And just like that my knees and back got a familiar twinge from practicing PLFs for hours.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on November 11, 2018, 07:36:23 PM
This thing running yet? Cold set in there? Apparently when I was passing thru Jon, Mike, Nate & Norm shared and this crap followed me home....
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: cudakidd53 on November 11, 2018, 07:47:53 PM
Yep Shawn, has to shovel the deck and test out the new tires on my truck!  Hope you’re feeling better soon too.  Hey Don, how far from functionality are you?
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on November 11, 2018, 08:19:09 PM
Yeah, felt better yesterday so one step forward then two back today. I have to get steel shipments and my 2 post lift picked up at freight terminals tomorrow. High of 30, no rest for the wicked as they say. Thanks
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 12, 2018, 10:54:12 AM
and practice their PLF's in the rocky debris below

And just like that my knees and back got a familiar twinge from practicing PLFs for hours.
thumbs up emoji
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 12, 2018, 10:56:20 AM
This thing running yet? Cold set in there? Apparently when I was passing thru Jon, Mike, Nate & Norm shared and this crap followed me home....
Maybe by weeks end. Rain today when I had planned to dig in the black pipe. I'll get the chimney painted and built up, but will need to finish the H2O hookup. Was down the farm for a few days
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 14, 2018, 05:44:30 PM
It was cold going, but I pressed forward some more today. Finally seeing a light at the end of the tunnel.

The thermostatically/programmable controlled outlets came in finally. These will control the heaters in the garage
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 14, 2018, 05:45:19 PM
Fits up there nicely. Loop ah' hangin' is the temp sensor.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 14, 2018, 05:46:23 PM
This guy was all over me and in and out of everything today. I'm surprised puppies survive ownership by grumpy old men!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 14, 2018, 05:48:20 PM
I used the same stove bright paint I successfully used on my wood stove which is still looking great. I chemically cleaned six- twenty four inch sections of eight inch chimney pipe and laid down a couple of coats
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 14, 2018, 05:50:07 PM
Dark forest green is the color which I selected as my first choice over the second choice of flat black to help camouflage the whole setup in amongst my woody lot.

This rain hood will get pop riveted to the top pipe
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 14, 2018, 05:52:33 PM
Assembling and coaxing 1" PEX in the cold, below freezing is not an easy thing to do. The stuff does not want to bend much at all, nor slip over the ribbed fittings. Nevertheless, I connected both circuits to their house mounted counterparts. I'll backfill in that area and fill the convoluted pipe with foam
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 14, 2018, 05:53:35 PM
Two runs make the short transit to the boiler
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 14, 2018, 05:54:32 PM
Then I began trenching the course of where the pipe will be buried
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 14, 2018, 05:59:47 PM
Trenching is incomplete at this point. I am just test fitting everything before putting a few hundred pounds of permanize on top of it. No photos, but I pulled the 12-2 wire to the boiler but noticed I was out of 3/4" X 90 degree conduit fittings so I cut and ran because my snowflake buttox was telling me to seek warmer climes.

So I assembled the chimney sections into four foot long sections, which I will pop rivet together in the morrow and think about stuffin' all that business into the boiler chimney short stack. Before completing that, I will have two sections of 1" steel conduit standin' by to connect to my house to make it easier for squirrels to throw their useless bodies into the fiery depths of the chimney.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 14, 2018, 06:06:23 PM
So, we are getting close to pourin' in some water and setting some of my home state afire in the bowels of that lovely money savin' creation.

I have to:

Connect the water lines to the boiler
Get the conduit assembled, buried and filled with the 12-2 wire
Install a switch and outlet on the boiler to give me something to plug the pumps into
Connect the wires in the basement
Mount the chimney
Install the chimney support straps
Fill with water, turn on the pumps and allow it to purge air from everywhere
Test for and repair any leaks
Throw in some dead ash tree parts
Light er' up
Sit in my cozy mini-castle and sip some hot chocolate
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on November 14, 2018, 06:11:17 PM
You forgot the pics of the slave labor  uh Er I mean pre ranger trench digging lessons...
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 14, 2018, 06:48:14 PM
You forgot the pics of the slave labor  uh Er I mean pre ranger trench digging lessons...
Because
It didn't happen
We had our own emancipation proclamation here
Called "Wrestling practice"
Now everything that causes the boyz to use a single calorie of energy is regulated by the warden (My wife)
She is happy if the boys get to practice unworked and on time
I like to be happy
I am not happy when she is not happy
Connect the dots...
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on November 15, 2018, 12:08:09 AM
I like those temp plugs, Ebay?

Now I know why I could be happier, but I have my projects,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 15, 2018, 08:50:02 AM
I like those temp plugs, Ebay?

Now I know why I could be happier, but I have my projects,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Amazon
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bob Smith on November 19, 2018, 11:05:42 PM
Don, remember the quicker you get this one finished the warmer it will be working on the new ride.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 20, 2018, 11:05:56 AM
Don, remember the quicker you get this one finished the warmer it will be working on the new ride.
It hurts to be reminded

So I was working on the thing in freezing cold outside, then we had a nice day Sunday. Kat decided to have this big all day Thanksgiving on that day, an all day thing, house full of people of all sizes. That day was like 70's, not a cloud in the sky.

I planned to finish it Monday. Well it got cold again and rained all day. The ditch filled to overrunning, so no work Monday. Then came Tuesday and again, rain all day, but warmer. Now its Wednesday and guess what? If you guessed rain, you'd be right. Rain and ice mixed actually. So I'm just gonna get on the Suburban and get some mileage with the evaluation of that thing.

Tomorrow is, yep, Thanksgiving!...

But then'there's Friday, and I have two pre-Rangers available for enslavement!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bear9350 on November 20, 2018, 11:21:08 AM
But.... Today is only Tuesday.  How long you been at the hide?

Also, not sure why the wife thinks the boys need to get to wrestling practice un-worked.  If I didn't lift weights before practice I was running.  The only exception was I went really light on the weights the day of match and the day before a tournament.  Also went easy on the running the day of a match or day before a tournament unless I needed to drop weight.  My senior year I won my first 28 matches before losing my first match at a very competitive tournament at the end of the year.  It wasn't because I had better skill then everybody else, it was because when we got to the third period my opponents were running on empty and I still had plenty of gas left in the tank.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: KensAuto on November 20, 2018, 05:23:39 PM
Now I've been told by 2 different people that today is Wednesday. wth is going on!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: EL TATE on November 20, 2018, 05:34:12 PM
Well Wednesday really is Friday, and Thursday Friday and Saturday are all one long food coma day, so they're kinda right?
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on November 20, 2018, 06:07:14 PM
Yummy turkey...... :tongue:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Sammconn on November 20, 2018, 08:29:50 PM
It’s tuesday right?
I’m confused too and Dons big ole beater is still not a heatin the house.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 20, 2018, 09:23:07 PM
Errr, I think I got my Saturday and Sunday confused...Duh :facepalm:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on November 20, 2018, 09:26:50 PM
Nope your just confused and build 20K trucks for landmarks! But we both like burbs.

Yep, just Tuesday and we are supposed to get rain for 3 days.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 21, 2018, 10:58:20 PM
Almost done now. Finding it hard to get any time on it with the holidays and the weather, but today I got the water lines hooked up and semi-buried.

I'll clean up the insulation the next time I get to it, but at least the water lines are hooked up and the electric line buried and run inside the correct conduit.

I shoved everything down in the trench, then hammered these big rebar "Staples" over them to hold it all in place
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 21, 2018, 10:59:12 PM
Looking better!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 21, 2018, 11:02:25 PM
Then I poured three bags of the fast setting quickcrete and mixed in some water from the standing rain water in the trench.

But, the boys called me for a ride to wrestling practice so I bugged out without snapping a pic of the endstate.

I plan to inject some foam in either end of the conduit/PEX hose assembly to keep the water out and stabilize things, perhaps right after Thanksgiving. Yes, we have another Thanksgiving dinner this year!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 23, 2018, 10:25:00 PM
Today I dug the pipes in some more, ran the rest of the conduit for the electrical supply, wired in the switch and started on the chimney
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 23, 2018, 10:28:45 PM
I back filled the conduit/PEX assembly with spray foam to waterproof it. My thinking is if the hollow casing filled with water, it would transfer heat to the ground more easily than if it remained a empty chamber of warmed air
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 23, 2018, 10:30:54 PM
I camoflaged the pipes and conduit with some forest green paint to hide it in a bit more
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 23, 2018, 10:33:32 PM
Meanwhile the PreRangers are working on some dead trees we dropped in our yard. The emerald Ash Borer killed all the Ash trees in Kentucky. I am the unfortunate owner of four big ones on the two acres the northern house sits on. They are getting processed as I finish the boiler install
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 23, 2018, 10:35:25 PM
Next up, I have started the chimney installation. I have riveted together a lower section of two pipe sections which I secured to the boiler.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 23, 2018, 10:36:49 PM
That 8" stove pipe fitted into the 8" X .250 Chimney stack perfectly. I riveted it in eight places to give me a strong base
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 23, 2018, 10:39:26 PM
On top of that goes four more sections for eight additional feet of height. At the top of the third pipe section, I welded on two 3/8" bolts to make studs. To these I will fasten the struts which will brace the stack and give it a lot of strength to help it in the occasional high winds we encounter.

The rain shield/diffuser is riveted to the top of it all
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 23, 2018, 10:40:36 PM
Its almost done and ready to push heat throughout the house for the rest of the winter...Yippee!!!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on November 23, 2018, 11:00:26 PM
Camo piping looks good, about time HH6 let pre rangers work!  :likebutton:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on November 23, 2018, 11:22:01 PM
Looks much better with that cover on there.

Got enough wood on hand?
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 24, 2018, 08:58:57 AM
Looks much better with that cover on there.

Got enough wood on hand?
Not nearly enough JR

This year is going to be catch up and not using perfectly seasoned wood. I think we will be chasing it all winter, but will be in great shape next winter with lots of wood stored up.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on November 24, 2018, 09:39:30 AM
So outside wood storage there next or maybe the commihoa won’t allow that?
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 24, 2018, 10:14:09 AM
So outside wood storage there next or maybe the commihoa won’t allow that?
Dunno
Don't care really about what any commies think
good thing is most of think I am a bit loose in the gears...think I may go off, so they steer clear
That's a good thing.
So downrange my plan is to put up a bit of a wall, off to the side a few feet, maybe lattice with some weeds growin' all over it. Then I could hide my still, err, my stack of wood behind it. Could maybe even get away with a bit of a roof...???
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on November 24, 2018, 10:27:24 AM
Roof would be a plus......
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: TexasRedNeck on November 24, 2018, 11:57:41 AM
Now why would they think you would “go off”?

I mean, shooting a neighbors dog and all.....

;-)


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Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: dave945 on November 25, 2018, 02:47:55 PM
Now why would they think you would “go off”?

I mean, shooting a neighbors dog and all.....

;-)


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The funny part is, that was down at fort Campbell if I recall him telling the story. So I guess he uses it as part of his normal introduction to people. “Hi, I’m Don.  Hope you aren’t stupid like my last neighbors, I had to shoot their dog”.
Something like that.


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Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 25, 2018, 07:00:10 PM
Stack is on, almost done

Only have to connect wiring in basement, wire in the aux thermostats, fill with water and make a fire

And, yes. it appears as though the top section of pipe is a tad crooked :-(
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 25, 2018, 07:02:33 PM
But the weather was nice so we concentrated on cutting wood. We dropped a total of four trees including one monster. We cut and hauled wood for 7 hours and still have a few cords laying on the ground still.

This is maybe a quarter to a third of it:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: KensAuto on November 25, 2018, 11:22:54 PM
A little crooked boss? Looks like it belongs in Italy.   ;p
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on November 26, 2018, 02:32:59 AM
Don, great place for a camera and it won't freeze up.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 26, 2018, 03:49:24 PM
I fired it up today at 1415.

First I built a small fire inside to warm it up a bit, then started filling with water.

While all that was going on, I finished the wiring in the basement, switched it all on and tested the circuit. Everything worked, and I noticed the water was running out of the top of the vent!

I shut the water off and timidly started switching on the pumps. The whirled right up to a pleasant hum, then started to squeal! Oops, forgot to open the water valves. Well doing that immediately stopped the squeal and the pumps settled into a low hum again. I noticed the water level going down like crazy as it was being pumped throughout the house and filling everything. So I topped up the tank once again and threw in a few logs.

When first I started, the water temp gage on the boiler read "60"

I then went all over the house checking for leaks, there were none so I then set the on/off temp bulbs controlling the garage heaters to cycle on at 67F, then off at 71F.

After doing that, I checked, now around 1525 and noted the output water temp was 72. The fire was puny and the air flapper was wide open, so I checked to find a vigorous flame and even some embers, so I tossed on more wood and the first larger log, measuring maybe 10" in diameter.

I checked the garage heaters and sure enough they were just starting to put out just a hint of heat.

So far-so good!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 26, 2018, 03:53:42 PM
Edit:

Time 1550

Output water temp: 77F
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 26, 2018, 04:07:26 PM
So we saw a rise of 5 degrees F in about 25 minutes

One degree increase every 5 minutes, give or take

So this is starting off with a boiler which was about 32F and tap water somewhere slightly above 60F, I'm guessing. The entire system was cold, none of the trapped air pockets are yet heated, just your standard cold start.

So we have another 100 degrees to go. If this warming is linear, then I have 500 more minutes or 8.3 hours until I'm fully up to temp and heating things with wood...

We'll see.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 26, 2018, 04:59:53 PM
Time: 1650

Temp: 83F

1 degree every 10 minutes...Not linear...
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 26, 2018, 05:06:54 PM
You can't tell, but this thing is running. The thermostat-switch is now controlling the fan operation
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 26, 2018, 05:08:38 PM
Early on water temp of 72. 180 indicates the temp at which the machine will go to idle and modulate to maintain said 180 water temp.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 26, 2018, 05:10:20 PM
The water tank which I overfilled initially was spraying out of the small weep hole at the top of the water level gage.

I had the water well above it somewhere!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 26, 2018, 05:11:00 PM
So far, its a smoker!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on November 26, 2018, 07:00:56 PM
My first shop I had a 3’ vent sticking out of roof & it didn’t clear the peak. One evening I fired up the stove which I got going initially with used motor oil, a rag and the oxy torch. So after getting it initially going went into house to do some paperwork until shop got up to temp. As I’m sitting there a police officer walks up my drive past the dining room window (aka my office) and I throw boots on to go out & see what’s up. Next thing I know here comes the ladder truck....

Moral of story use a taller stack or don’t live on a state highway!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: KensAuto on November 26, 2018, 07:53:39 PM
Good to find no leaks. That alone would make me happy.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: TexasRedNeck on November 26, 2018, 09:58:37 PM
Great news Chief. Your BTU input is also a variable so YMMV

Sounds like you’ll be feeding it some logs!


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Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 26, 2018, 10:23:35 PM
Time: 2210

Water temp: 95F

OK, so it continues to heat up. although slowly

Like Shawn or someone pointed out, the wood I am using is not seasoned and I believe it is not burning as well as dried wood could/would/should, burn. (Havin some fun with the "ould" there)

I took a shower and right away noticed the water was warmer at a lower setting. Just a little, but noticeable. The water temp was 95F a moment ago, still climbing.

The garages are very definitely much warmer than the outside which has ice building on the road surfaces. I could go with a light shirt or a T with some activity in either garage. The house is still not there, yet and I am still on the heat pump, kind of. I am running the fan which is pulling heat out of the exchangers and causing the boiler to do double duty of heating this house in a night which is below freezing and build in 86 degrees more temp in that mass of water.

But it is all trending in the right direction. Next big goal will be to get a goodly amount of firewood stacked and drying, but it's never three days in a row without rain here. Its been that way almost since spring!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bigdave_185 on November 27, 2018, 12:29:36 AM
So what all does this system do Don?  It heats the house via the radiators? It tied into you hot water heater also? You mentioned a Heat Pump?

What do you mean heat pump? Up hear when someone says heat pump I think of the geothermal type where the pump cycles fluid deep into the earth and back into the furnace to reduce need of gas to heat of the electricity needed to run the air conditioner unit




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Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: cruizng on November 27, 2018, 07:24:47 AM
Congrats Don. Nice working setting it up. Toasty in no time.  :beercheers:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Nate on November 27, 2018, 10:04:01 AM
dave, heres what a heat pump is and how it works.  it is not a geothermal system like you are describing/thinking of.

https://www.trane.com/residential/en/resources/glossary/what-is-a-heat-pump/

Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 27, 2018, 11:02:16 AM
This system will provide 100% of the heating requirements of this house.

All the heat to warm the living spaces, all the energy to heat the hot water, and now in addition to what we had, heated garages (2 ea.) as well.

I am now in the steep climb up the learning curb. The wood I have is not seasoned well, and is not up to the task it would seem. I was unable to reach anything over 100 degrees on this unsplit ash wood.

We simply dropped some dead standing ash trees and sawed them into bite sized portions and have been feeding them to the boiler. There are several problems with that (But it's all that I have). First there is some rot in some of the pieces. Second, there is some residual moisture in the wood causing it to smolder and not burn righteously. Finally, Ash is very dense and has a very high BTU content. It is not a good type of wood to begin with. Duane just lectured me on the need to start out and build a bed of coals out of maple, chased with oak, then finally ash. Apparently the stuff I have requires some pretty good ignition temps to get it going.

We have a solution. He has several cords of seasoned firewood of different species that has been standing 6-8 years. Once I get that onsite, I think I will resolve the problem I'm having with getting the water up to temp.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bob Smith on November 27, 2018, 11:50:14 AM
Don, can you manually open the draft a bit(or lot) more. More air flow across the burn should increase the heat of the fire and provide more coals too. Burning wet wood is never good for sure, but if you can get a good fire going the wood will dry out more quickly. Maybe add some store bought coal to help out for now. If you do that let the draft work on its own so you don't overheat the unit.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on November 27, 2018, 01:36:15 PM
Don, first year firewood issue is the norm not the exception. You definitely will be a pro after this first winter just hang in there & sounds like Duane is a great resource. If any questions about first year heating with wood just ask Ashley about green wood... :rolleyes:

Normally I had my cords split and stacked for drying by no later than June 1st in NE IN. Now full logs may need cut to length a full year ahead. If the ash is standing and no bark cut it and burn it, it’s gtg right now FYI. For large diameter trees that were downed in a wind storm etc years ago and not cut they can still hold quite a bit of moisture in them. Again ask Ashley if questions about river bottom oaks he was trying to burn.

One other tip, there is a tool (I never bought one cause I’m cheap) that will tell you moisture content of wood. I think it’s like a scanner or something, it would have saved me a lot of trouble had I bought one my first year heating with wood. Just a thought....

And for all you clowns who sell green wood as if it’s dried and ready to burn go pound sand....

https://m.lowes.com/pd/General-Tools-Instruments-Digital-Moisture-Meter/3136919?cm_mmc=SCE_PLA-_-ToolsAndHardware-_-SpecialtyHandTools-_-3136919:General_Tools_&_Instruments&CAWELAID=&kpid=3136919&CAGPSPN=pla&store_code=1874&k_clickID=go_625706834_34613852470_111132719110_pla-260326515041_m_9028890&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIteak_5v13gIVycDACh39EQ8DEAQYASABEgLcbvD_BwE

Btw, I was told harbor freight sells one too....
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bob Smith on November 27, 2018, 02:24:38 PM
And if you are buying seasoned wood and the truck shows up with green wood send them away. When you need wood to burn you don't need a load of green wet wood to try and work with.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bob Smith on November 27, 2018, 02:48:15 PM
I am cutting wood right now for next Fall
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bob Smith on November 27, 2018, 02:50:08 PM
7 large fir and one cedar for starting the fire
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: KensAuto on November 27, 2018, 04:18:25 PM
Don, did I read you right,  about trying to heat the house last night,  and running the shower? Wouldn't it be best to get the boiler up to temp before cycling the pumps,  so it has a fighting chance? Just thinking out loud.  Never had a boiler here in the desert...go figure.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 27, 2018, 05:14:02 PM
OK, everyone hold your horses!

I am getting on top of the curve to be sure

I now have a hot fire going in that thing, and water temp is now at 114 and rising.

I threw in a small load of 2 X 4's and that was like a catalyst which just consumed that stubborn 10" log like it was a snickers bar at a fat girl's convention.

Outside temp is in the low-mid 20's and the house temp is ahead of the thermostat! I have turned off the upstairs heat pump and just have the fan running which is driving air across that toasty heat exchanger. The youngest pre-ranger told me the upstairs is the warmest it has ever been.

In the basement, the water heater plate type heat exchanger is hot to the touch, so it has to be making hot water. I'll turn the hot water heater off tomorrow, and finally when I see temps nearing 180, I'll turn off the main heat pump and be totally on the boiler.

It also has my big garage toasty. I have been working out there for hours on the Burb in pleasant, I'd make it mid 50's to maybe 60F. When the water in that thing reaches 180 it is going to be way more than adequate for this big house. It is currently heating 7,500 square feet and some sizeable volume spaces like the great room which is almost 20 feet tall!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bob Smith on November 27, 2018, 05:31:06 PM
Good news, but, buying 2x4's to cut and burn up can't be cost effective.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on November 27, 2018, 06:31:16 PM
Pine & creosote.... :tongue:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Sammconn on November 28, 2018, 07:13:52 PM
Dry wood matters. Sounds like you’ve had the lecture.
Is there any concern of fire going out and water freezing?
You’re not cold like guys I see with them but I know nothing about them.
My thought was that they had antifreeze of some sort in them.

I cut next winters wood before end of March. I wish I had the ambition to be a winter ahead.
But I may be, as I’m adding an oil burner at the cabin.
Hope to cut my wood use in half or better.

Glad to hear a project is working and possibly done...
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bob Smith on November 28, 2018, 07:42:07 PM
Don, I hope things are getting warmer for you now. I had a propane heater installed in my garage this fall. It hangs from the ceiling and it sure is nice to have better heating in there. It looks a lot like the unit you installed in your garage except for the water lines. Once you get a bunch of stockpiled wood that can dry before you use it you should be golden with that setup. I would caution you though to not be putting the fire wood right next to the house or in the garage, the bugs could eat you up.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 28, 2018, 08:09:08 PM
Yea, the dry wood is the whole issue at the moment. I have none, and therefore cannot reach full temp. Having said that, last night it was low 20's with a breeze and that thing got us through just fine. It started out in the one hundred teens and was pulled all the way down to 76 by morning. It had eaten all the logs I threw in, big small, wet and wetter. But I know it would be hummin on a good dry pile of hardwood.

I'll pick up a few cords of Duane's stuff which he no longer has any need for and report on what if any difference that makes.

Working in the garage is now a non issue!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bob Smith on November 28, 2018, 08:51:55 PM
I am sure it will be much better
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 29, 2018, 09:23:47 AM
I am sure it will be much better
:likebutton:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: BobbyB on November 30, 2018, 07:13:20 PM
Duane's stuff which he no longer has any need for

How's Duane and the family doing by the way?
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 30, 2018, 08:57:52 PM
Duane's stuff which he no longer has any need for

How's Duane and the family doing by the way?
In a word, Great!

Insurance carried the day and are still paying out, he did OK

He closed on his new house today actually.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 30, 2018, 09:00:46 PM
Granted the OAT has been much better than the previous week, but the boiler digesting its steady diet of wet/green wood is staying 3+ degrees higher than the thermostat which I set at 70 for the heat pump to kick on. The boys said it was actually hot in their bedrooms, hot enough to have to open a window a little bit.

So I'd say it is picking up the slack. As soon as I get some real wood stacked in, I'll turn off the second unit and the water heater and go completely on the wood boiler
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bob Smith on November 30, 2018, 09:20:35 PM
Once you get good dry wood for it to eat, you might want to clean the exhaust piping. If you have much build up it can cut down on the draft's ability to keep a good burn going. On my wood stove, if the exhaust builds to much junk, it curls toward the center of the pipe cutting down on draft ability. Either that or get a darn good chimney fire going and burn it out. Don't think anything is close enough to be hurt from that.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 01, 2018, 03:30:16 PM
Once you get good dry wood for it to eat, you might want to clean the exhaust piping. If you have much build up it can cut down on the draft's ability to keep a good burn going. On my wood stove, if the exhaust builds to much junk, it curls toward the center of the pipe cutting down on draft ability. Either that or get a darn good chimney fire going and burn it out. Don't think anything is close enough to be hurt from that.
Copy that!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 02, 2018, 09:58:55 PM
So we raided Duane's stockpile today and brought back a couple chords of seasoned firewood
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 02, 2018, 09:59:49 PM
I loaded up some earlier and it started pushing the temp up from the 90's
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 02, 2018, 10:00:37 PM
And now I have a good fire going in there
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 02, 2018, 10:03:15 PM
But even with the relatively low boiler water temp, the delta in heat it is making is readily apparent on my inside thermostat. The heat pump heater is set to come on if the temp creeps below 70. You can see that the house is a cozy 75F you will also note that only the fan is running and not the heating unit. I'm now heating the house entirely on this way less than optimum boiler water.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: TexasRedNeck on December 03, 2018, 06:06:47 AM
Good job, Don.  Just goes to show you what perseverance and hard work can do!

Might be worth buying a half cord of known good seasoned wood to see the difference and determined burn rates for future wood storage.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on December 03, 2018, 08:24:02 AM
 :likebutton:

Ahhhhhh Dry seasoned wood, so nice and toasty!   :beercheers:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: dave945 on December 03, 2018, 08:50:02 AM
Don, I was just thinking(I know, scary stuff). What is your plan as far as power out scenario?  Do you have a power backup connected to the outdoor furnace and indoor air handler?


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Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 03, 2018, 09:33:03 AM
Good job, Don.  Just goes to show you what perseverance and hard work can do!

Might be worth buying a half cord of known good seasoned wood to see the difference and determined burn rates for future wood storage.
Rog
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 03, 2018, 09:36:26 AM
Don, I was just thinking(I know, scary stuff). What is your plan as far as power out scenario?  Do you have a power backup connected to the outdoor furnace and indoor air handler?


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Yes and no Dave
6K generator (I own)
Plan to wire a special circuit to just the boiler and both HVAC units.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 03, 2018, 09:37:28 AM
Last night it held 75F until maybe 4Am then dropped to 74F but nothing less.

Better wood = Better heat
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: KensAuto on December 03, 2018, 02:58:36 PM
That's impressive, especially for a home that size.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on December 03, 2018, 07:20:19 PM
That's impressive, especially for a home that size.

Only took a 1/2 a cord of wood a day to do it too!  :shocked:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bob Smith on December 03, 2018, 07:28:09 PM
That's impressive, especially for a home that size.

Only took a 1/2 a cord of wood a day to do it too!  :shocked:



I would hope Don will keep good records of wood burn and share that information with us.
Once he gets some logs dried out and starts loading them into the stove, burn time should increase. Maybe then he will keep good numbers to share with the group.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on December 03, 2018, 07:30:32 PM
My welder back in Indiana ran one of these and normally unless it was single digits he could run 12 hours on a load.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 03, 2018, 07:38:10 PM
Tim, the guy who builds these things says it eats about a wheel barrow of wood a day.

Now, he lives in upstate Michigan, so after applying the KY latitude calibration factor I'd say I am close

What's different about mine is that it is currently not regulated by a thermostat. It simply runs with the air flapper wide open all the time. That means it is burning more than it would normally need to, however that flapper is controlled by the water temp. The desired water temp has never been reached yet, but I am certainly not using that much wood, although a good percentage thereof.

Currently it is pretty cold outside and I am all stoked up sitting at around 75 on the inside still.

The thing had accumulated a bunch of cresode on the interior, which is now burning away, so I'd say the thing is yet to get on top of the curve. That and the stacked wood I took didn't have a cover over the top so it was and is a little bit wet still.

You can see that there are a bunch of factors still working against my having this thing optimized, but it has provided steady heat for over a week, with no additional heating from electric sources. I just want it to hit the big temps so I can turn off the water heater!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: cudakidd53 on December 04, 2018, 12:38:36 PM
Good progress, now buy each Pre-ranger their own chain saw and start whacking and stacking for the future!  HH6 could probably use a hydraulic splitter and your Christmas shopping is done!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Nate on December 04, 2018, 03:39:05 PM
HH6 could probably use a hydraulic splitter

ill leave that one alone
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on December 04, 2018, 04:09:34 PM
What exactly would she be busting er uh splitting?  :tongue:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 04, 2018, 07:25:31 PM
Good progress, now buy each Pre-ranger their own chain saw and start whacking and stacking for the future!  HH6 could probably use a hydraulic splitter and your Christmas shopping is done!
I was thinking she needed that too!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: cudakidd53 on December 05, 2018, 08:24:30 AM
Now Don, on a SERIOUS note:  Look into Lebanon, KY; one of two places in the US where ALL of the Bourbon barrels are manufactured from milled oak staves.  They most likely have a HUGE amount of outside tree rounds available as waste.  Go, cut a deal and load-up with all you can carry then cut into boiler length sections and you're set.  Those oak staves they make are NOT GREEN Oak mind you, so you could be golden in no time regarding usable, clean burning wood for your Casa!

http://www.independentstavecompany.com/locations/north-america/

A gift from my memory to yours!  I drive past the Lebanon, MO location all the time-  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bear9350 on December 05, 2018, 09:39:33 AM
Has the system gotten up to temp yet?  I would think that after a week of burning you should have gotten it up to temp by now.  Even if you have been burning green wood, its not that cold out yet.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 05, 2018, 12:44:02 PM
Now Don, on a SERIOUS note:  Look into Lebanon, KY; one of two places in the US where ALL of the Bourbon barrels are manufactured from milled oak staves.  They most likely have a HUGE amount of outside tree rounds available as waste.  Go, cut a deal and load-up with all you can carry then cut into boiler length sections and you're set.  Those oak staves they make are NOT GREEN Oak mind you, so you could be golden in no time regarding usable, clean burning wood for your Casa!

http://www.independentstavecompany.com/locations/north-america/

A gift from my memory to yours!  I drive past the Lebanon, MO location all the time-  :popcorn:
Thanks Mike
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 05, 2018, 12:50:40 PM
Has the system gotten up to temp yet?  I would think that after a week of burning you should have gotten it up to temp by now.  Even if you have been burning green wood, its not that cold out yet.
Yes, and no

I got it to 170F but I am really pushing it.

I have talked with Tim, the builder, some more. Seems I ran it for a couple weeks with wet wood and never got it up to temp, so now I managed to get the vent/baffle on the flue pretty clogged with cresode. My bad, but now I need to address the situation which may involve my allowing the fire to go out and dismantling the chimney.

Its just a learning curve, and i will get it cleaned and fired correctly. Currently, however as a rescue 911 effort I purchased one of those creosote burning log things. It might help, dunno, but it couldn't hurt. My hope is to burn the chimney clean and get the thing operating, but if need be, I'll do the partial tear down and fix, and then start it all up correctly.

Tim has been Johnny on the spot. He texts and calls me to check on my progress. I managed to burn out and destroy the air flapper solenoid, but he had left me a spare. He texted me to say he is sending me two more so I'll have spares should I manage to kill it again (and again)

Not that I'm hard on things! ;-))

Oh and the wood from Duane's is pretty good. Burns hot and completely burns up.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Atkinsmatt on December 05, 2018, 02:30:20 PM
Just like the chimney on the pot belly stove when the guys would run it rich when they started it and by 2 am it won't even produce heat as there is so much residue in the stack.  Clean it up and let it breath.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 05, 2018, 03:41:52 PM
Just like the chimney on the pot belly stove when the guys would run it rich when they started it and by 2 am it won't even produce heat as there is so much residue in the stack.  Clean it up and let it breath.
I'm trying!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Atkinsmatt on December 05, 2018, 04:26:13 PM
Are the pre rangers still exempt on the duty roster?  A little soot on the hands builds character.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on December 05, 2018, 04:45:03 PM
Are the pre rangers still exempt on the duty roster?  A little soot on the hands builds character.

:likebutton:

Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 05, 2018, 10:35:28 PM
Are the pre rangers still exempt on the duty roster?  A little soot on the hands builds character.
They have wrestling practice five nights a week and all day long, 0530-2230 on Saturdays. I get a little work out of them on Sundays, that's it!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on December 05, 2018, 10:55:01 PM
You know, when I was a kid games were the reward from work completed... :tongue: :popcorn:

Lol....
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 09, 2018, 08:50:01 PM
OK, so I was having trouble maintaining temp with the thing, so I had a long talk with Tim.

I have to own it, but I never did get the thing up to operating temp and just lugged it for a couple weeks, which choked it up with tar and creosote.

After some consideration, Tim advised I just start all over from a cold start, so I shut it off and let it cool for three days.

Today I tore the chimney off

There has been a couple cords of wood burned in this thing and all I have is a couple inches of ash remaining. Proof that you definitely burn everything

The point where the creosote meets the ash pile, it forms a buildup which is fairly easily scraped off. Tim supplies you with a tool contoured to the burn chamber which simplifies the task. He says this place is where all the corrosion takes place
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 09, 2018, 08:50:53 PM
Just look at the mess inside the flue!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 09, 2018, 08:52:13 PM
So I got to it with an eight inch chimney brush and a flexible handle
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 09, 2018, 08:53:51 PM
After playing crankshaft and piston for awhile, I was left with a nice pile of junk in the ash pile and a much cleaner flue
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 09, 2018, 08:55:45 PM
Next I went to installing my temporary shorter chimney stack. I added a "T" to it so I might have a cleanout entry point that isn't inside an oven or twenty feet up in the air.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 09, 2018, 08:56:55 PM
With that installed, I heaped the ash pile as per Tim's recommendations and put fire to it
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 09, 2018, 08:57:31 PM
Cleanout:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 09, 2018, 08:58:18 PM
Smoke is moving as it should
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 09, 2018, 08:58:50 PM
G-T-G
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 09, 2018, 08:59:39 PM
Nasty stuff has tarnished my mirror roof!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 09, 2018, 09:01:43 PM
But look at what was happening:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 09, 2018, 09:04:31 PM
It topped around 173 when I started a slow switch on process of the pumps. Knowing the pumps would push a bunch of cold water back into the boiler, I gave it some time before switching on pump two, then a while longer before turning on the fans to extract the heat and warm the house.

An hour plus later now and although it is 20's outside it is toasty warm (Hot??) in here now.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on December 09, 2018, 09:07:23 PM
 :likebutton:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on December 09, 2018, 09:34:34 PM
Now your cooking  :likebutton:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bob Smith on December 11, 2018, 07:12:00 PM
Don, how goes the heating of the home? Hopefully all is good now that you have cleaned out the crud and are feeding dry wood.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 11, 2018, 09:10:01 PM
Don, how goes the heating of the home? Hopefully all is good now that you have cleaned out the crud and are feeding dry wood.
It's working fairly well Bob.

It goes through some wood though, but it is still not dialed in

Right now I have the tempstat which cycles the air flapper door thing set to 180.

The unit will not maintain 180F water temp, not yet so the door just stays open. That allows a bunch of air in that the fire just loves. So it goes through wood quite regularly.

Also, I do not have a thermostat inside controlling the fan, I have just kept the fan continuously on. So essentially, the heat exchangers are constantly pulling heat off of it, so it never really has the chance to catch up.

The final answer will be to set the hydrostat temp at somewhere that is manageable. I thought about dropping it ten degrees, to 170 then get a simple two wire thermostat controlling the fan.

With all of that, the demand for heat will not be continuous, but only when needed. Instead of a 100% duty cycle, I think I can drop this thing to something less and still stay cozy. Last night it was in the teens, while my whole house remained between 72F and 73F. But it ate all the fuel pdq, and by luck I had to get up to talk to a man about a dog and went out and tossed some more dead tree parts in there. We woke to a toasty house, so its all good.

I haven't had the heat pumps even turned on since I restarted the fire
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 11, 2018, 09:11:50 PM
Oh, and that powder creosote killin' powder stuff works. Inside my boiler the tar stuff is nearly gone. It dried out, turned papery and flaked off. The exhaust runs a lot closer to clear now as well. I think I'm beginning to get on top of the learning curve.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on December 11, 2018, 09:31:03 PM
So how much wood you burning per day?
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 11, 2018, 10:28:02 PM
So how much wood you burning per day?
In 24 hours, cold, I'd say somewhere between one to two full wheel barrows.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bob Smith on December 12, 2018, 12:45:43 AM
I wouldn't think the fire would be burning at such a high rate, but you are heating a lot of area, and it is cold outside. 180* water seems high. What temps did the sales guy say you should be shooting for?
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: TexasRedNeck on December 12, 2018, 05:17:19 AM
Talk to a guy about a dog?

Did you have to take a shovel?


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Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on December 12, 2018, 05:40:33 AM
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 12, 2018, 11:25:26 AM
Yea it burns a lot of wood, true

But that wood only cost me labor so far, so quantity, to a point is OK with me.

Now on the other side of the equation, my house stayed 74F most of last night, finishing with 73F this morning. And loads of hot water in the shower.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: EL TATE on December 12, 2018, 11:31:37 AM
running that fan full time has got to be drawing the heat off, prompting the flapper to stay open to maintain the heat. I'm sure you've figured this out though
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 12, 2018, 12:05:54 PM
running that fan full time has got to be drawing the heat off, prompting the flapper to stay open to maintain the heat. I'm sure you've figured this out though

Yes, I realize that

But I am doing this in stages. First I had to figure out the boiler, which I think I am getting on top of. It is no longer all gunked up, but just has the normal char you'd expect to see. Next is the thermostat which should "Heal" the thing. Well, that and deciding on a proper boiler operating temp. So far I think 180F is too high, but I'm not experienced enough with it yet.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on December 12, 2018, 02:00:08 PM
A wheel barrel a day or 2 is not bad, but isn't it supposed to be a lot less?

Heating the entire house and hot water is good.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 12, 2018, 03:51:29 PM
A wheel barrel a day or 2 is not bad, but isn't it supposed to be a lot less?

Heating the entire house and hot water is good.
Naw, Tim said about a wheel barrow a day average.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: KensAuto on December 16, 2018, 01:36:00 PM
I can't believe you keep your castle at 74. My house is half that size and I run 68, in the 30s ambient.  Anymore than 68,  I'll have to get a second job.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bob Smith on December 16, 2018, 03:01:39 PM

Ken, you see the 30's what two weeks a year at most? Where do you run the cooling in the Summer, 90*


My wife has the furnace at 70 all winter when we are down there. Up here it is 71 or 72 depending on how wet it is outside.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on December 16, 2018, 03:06:48 PM
We set ours at 72 during waking hours at home in the winter. At night it’s 68-70.....
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 16, 2018, 05:37:12 PM
I can't believe you keep your castle at 74. My house is half that size and I run 68, in the 30s ambient.  Anymore than 68,  I'll have to get a second job.
I target 71, Wife always bumps it up. I turn it back down when she isn't looking

Unregulated by a thermostat, the boiler was maintaining 74, even 75 on the first level and it hit an unbelievable 80F upstairs.

All that will change with the thermostat addition.

But no electric heating at all for weeks now...
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on December 16, 2018, 05:47:36 PM
Heck, my wife bumps it down to like 65, I use 68-70. I refuse to bundle up.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bigdave_185 on December 17, 2018, 05:20:55 AM
We have been playin the up and down in the new home, think the happy medium is 72 this winter.   Wishing the home was better insulated


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Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 17, 2018, 09:05:42 AM
72 is comfortable, assuming the floors are warm as well.

Now if you're like 20's to early thirties young, then mid high 60's would be fine I think

Metobobolic rate and all that business

BTW, last night the house climbed to 76F and we actually opened doors to vent

And know what? That's a refreshing bennie of having a no cost heater with a big surplus. You can open the doors and vent all the stale air and freshen up at no real cost, and recovery time back to toastie is pdq.

So far the boiler is working really well, but no where near optimized

And I have noted that I don't seem to need to run super high temps around 180. if the thing is cookin in the one-teens, it still kicks out very good heat. The hot water is mo-betterer when the boiler is up, but that's it

Next test will be the upcoming bill EOM December.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bigdave_185 on December 17, 2018, 10:02:22 AM
On some of the older homes here Don we would as a humidifier to run in the winter to keep the air from being so dry from blown air.   Do you have any issues with the new heat system giving out to much dry air?  I assume not because you already are really humid there


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Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 17, 2018, 05:37:16 PM
On some of the older homes here Don we would as a humidifier to run in the winter to keep the air from being so dry from blown air.   Do you have any issues with the new heat system giving out to much dry air?  I assume not because you already are really humid there


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Ya, door number two

Humid, even in the winter

No moisture problems to speak of
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bob Smith on December 17, 2018, 06:00:14 PM
Don, do you have an infrared heat gun? I checked the air coming out of the ductwork at about 93* and the line coming from the heat pump to the air handler is around 110-115*
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 17, 2018, 06:35:01 PM
Don, do you have an infrared heat gun? I checked the air coming out of the ductwork at about 93* and the line coming from the heat pump to the air handler is around 110-115*
No, don't have one
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 26, 2018, 09:55:08 AM
OK, as the learning continues. I am now over a month into the operation of this thing, and as I learn the results are getting better all the time.

Here's what I have learned so far

The thing does not like to start off with unseasoned wood, but if you ever manage to get that stuff up to operating temp, it will digest it just fine.

So currently I use a blend of dry, seasoned wood and fresh cut from standing, dead, trees.

The wood should not be split into fireplace like (Read: thinner) chunks but left in big chunky pieces. Like taking a 10" X 24" log and just breaking it in half, nothing more. That way it will burn over a longer time than just go up quickly like the dry stuff does.

So I would start burning just the dry stuff but the boiler was eating it faster than I could throw it in. Ate a chord and a half in a week and a half! Then I busted up some logs from an ash tree we dropped in our yard over Thanksgiving. We broke up some sections and started with a 2:1 ratio, of dry to this wet stuff. Just like that, it started to last longer, much longer.

Next we started throwing thicker and literally massive chunks of wood in there and we noticed the temps rising and the house getting warmer.

But the crown jewel was the installation of a thermostat. Once I did that, the boiler temp went right up to 169 from the very low 100's to 110's. And the smoke it was emitting dwindled to very little to not noticable.

Here is the thermostat I had been using to control only the electric heat/AC
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 26, 2018, 09:56:35 AM
Now rather than being complex the wiring is rather simple and uses an established national code. The green wire is the voltage to the fan only, and the red wire is the power.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 26, 2018, 09:58:37 AM
So, I purchased a cheapo $20 two wire thermostat normally used only to turn on baseboard heat strips and mounted it to a piece of thick walnut we had milled earlier. Cost for all of that was still just the $20 odd dollars
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 26, 2018, 10:00:11 AM
I hollowed out the back, drilled a hole through which to route the wiring, sanded it and coated with linseed oil. After screwing it all together, bingo, I was done!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 26, 2018, 10:02:10 AM
I thought I'd mount it to a block of wood and not directly to my wall (Inside a box, of course) because a wood fired heater ought to have a wooden mount! Dummy proof and all that...

So I screwed that to the wall, catching a stud and plugged in my wires
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 26, 2018, 10:08:45 AM
No shot of my super neat wiring, sorry...

This constitutes a hybrid heating system with three phases

I set the electric unit to 65F. Should the temperature fall to 64, the heat pump will energize to maintain that temp. Should the differential grow to greater than two degrees (62), then electric heating coils will energize and shut down the local coal fired power plant.

But the wooden thermostat is set to "Toasty"

It just makes warm air to my honey's delight and the electric stuff goes on thinking it's still springtime! Over the Christmas holiday the house stayed a really nice 74F-75F and the logs are all lasting much longer. I think we are getting on top of the curve here, starting to find the magic range that this thing likes.

It is like no fuss, Just go out every once in awhile and toss on some unwanted furniture, christmas paper, cardboard boxes, old unwanted furniture, logs and some old unwanted furniture that the wife has had stored for a decade, and that's it!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 26, 2018, 10:10:23 AM
It will readily eat, old dressers, old ornamental baby cribs, ugly candle sticks, and semi dry ash with ease!

Being green can be fun and have other benefits as well!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on December 26, 2018, 07:11:40 PM
Nice work.

Will it destroy evidence?
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 26, 2018, 09:57:19 PM
Nice work.

Will it destroy evidence?
dunno, watcha got needin' destroyed?
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: TexasRedNeck on December 26, 2018, 10:00:20 PM
Hillary emails


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Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 27, 2018, 09:59:09 AM
Hillary emails


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Already done some time ago...
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 27, 2018, 10:01:57 AM
I woke up this morning and the house had fallen from a toasty 73-74F last night down to 70F this morning

WHAAAAAAATTTTTTT????????

I checked, and the stove was down a bit, but nursing a nice bed of embers, the water temp was down some but still good

Then when walking back into the kitchen I felt a breeze

Someone left the patio (French) door open last night

That darned stove kept the house at 70F with a big door wide open to the outside!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: TexasRedNeck on December 27, 2018, 10:07:11 AM
Sounds like a failure in opsec there, Chief. You slipping?


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Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 27, 2018, 10:11:31 AM
Sounds like a failure in opsec there, Chief. You slipping?


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Slipped

as in a generation past the active verb!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 27, 2018, 10:12:57 AM
Hmmm, just found out the boiler will consume Christmas gifts and a 3/4 eaten turkey carcass!

Wow, more free heat!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Nate on December 27, 2018, 01:59:27 PM
just cause its free does not mean that its good for the inside of that thing.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bigdave_185 on December 27, 2018, 02:05:03 PM
Don will be out there cooking pizza in a few weeks


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Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on December 27, 2018, 04:00:14 PM
Sounds like it will consume a "carcass" ok.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 27, 2018, 10:53:24 PM
Sounds like it will consume a "carcass" ok.
It did!

Youngest pre-ranger told me, he has to open his window each night and turn a fan on low to dray outside air inside. Keep in mind I have completely shutdown the upstairs HVAC. We are running totally on the main system only and have been for over a month now. I just came upstairs from my woodshop to find the house sitting at 75F. So I turned it down again!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on December 27, 2018, 11:03:09 PM
 :likebutton:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on December 30, 2018, 10:21:27 AM
Ok, so other than dead eats remnants how is the collection of fuel going as we know this beast can consume large quantities of the stuff....
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: KensAuto on December 30, 2018, 01:15:21 PM
Is that where the green beast ended up,  vaporized, keeping Don's toes all warm and fuzzy?
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 30, 2018, 04:11:54 PM
Ok, so other than dead eats remnants how is the collection of fuel going as we know this beast can consume large quantities of the stuff....
S- It does have a healthy appetite!

But on the flip side of that equation is a toasty house and a warm garage.

So It ate all of the first load of Duane's logs, had to clean him out with a second load.

That and we have been beating ourselves half to death swinging a busting maul breaking up a couple of Ash trees. That stove has eaten maybe 1/4 of those two trees. If I could possibly break the rest of those logs up, I'd be good through Feb.

If it burns down to gray ash, I throw in camshaft box, two dry logs, several smaller Ash branch pieces, and one-two big wet Ash logs and she is happy with that for 8 hours at least. Throw in three big logs and as the new yorkers say, -Fa-get-ah-bout-it
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 30, 2018, 04:12:22 PM
Is that where the green beast ended up,  vaporized, keeping Don's toes all warm and fuzzy?
Soon to begin dismantling...partial dismantling...
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on December 30, 2018, 06:42:31 PM
Ok, so other than dead eats remnants how is the collection of fuel going as we know this beast can consume large quantities of the stuff....
S- It does have a healthy appetite!

But on the flip side of that equation is a toasty house and a warm garage.

So It ate all of the first load of Duane's logs, had to clean him out with a second load.

That and we have been beating ourselves half to death swinging a busting maul breaking up a couple of Ash trees. That stove has eaten maybe 1/4 of those two trees. If I could possibly break the rest of those logs up, I'd be good through Feb.

If it burns down to gray ash, I throw in camshaft box, two dry logs, several smaller Ash branch pieces, and one-two big wet Ash logs and she is happy with that for 8 hours at least. Throw in three big logs and as the new yorkers say, -Fa-get-ah-bout-it

Get those pre rangers together and rent a hydraulic splitter for a day. Worth the money and a good one will take 3 people to keep it fed.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 30, 2018, 10:09:09 PM
Ok, so other than dead eats remnants how is the collection of fuel going as we know this beast can consume large quantities of the stuff....
S- It does have a healthy appetite!

But on the flip side of that equation is a toasty house and a warm garage.

So It ate all of the first load of Duane's logs, had to clean him out with a second load.

That and we have been beating ourselves half to death swinging a busting maul breaking up a couple of Ash trees. That stove has eaten maybe 1/4 of those two trees. If I could possibly break the rest of those logs up, I'd be good through Feb.

If it burns down to gray ash, I throw in camshaft box, two dry logs, several smaller Ash branch pieces, and one-two big wet Ash logs and she is happy with that for 8 hours at least. Throw in three big logs and as the new yorkers say, -Fa-get-ah-bout-it

Get those pre rangers together and rent a hydraulic splitter for a day. Worth the money and a good one will take 3 people to keep it fed.
I think when my rich uncle dies in the poor house, I might buy that log splitter attachment for the front of spud. have the prerangers cut down the tree, then saw it up into chunks, then I'll turn down the tunes, set my sweet tea down next to the AC vent, drive over and bust them up
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: TexasRedNeck on December 31, 2018, 06:54:19 AM
I was kinda hoping you’d go for this.

https://youtu.be/KdXzaGFkWfU


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Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: BobbyB on December 31, 2018, 08:16:07 AM
Get those pre rangers together and rent a hydraulic splitter for a day. Worth the money and a good one will take 3 people to keep it fed.

I agree with this.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: KensAuto on December 31, 2018, 10:07:08 AM
At one time I would agree with Shawn,  and Bobby,  but today I like Charles' idea the best.
Plus, Don likes to spend money on crazy things.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: TexasRedNeck on December 31, 2018, 11:53:46 AM
I think they are about $35k


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Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bob Smith on December 31, 2018, 12:16:18 PM
I think they are about $35k


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Yes but he has all that free heat mindset.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on December 31, 2018, 12:23:26 PM
I was kinda hoping you’d go for this.

https://youtu.be/KdXzaGFkWfU


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genius!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: wilsonphil on December 31, 2018, 12:41:05 PM
Ok, so other than dead eats remnants how is the collection of fuel going as we know this beast can consume large quantities of the stuff....
S- It does have a healthy appetite!

But on the flip side of that equation is a toasty house and a warm garage.

So It ate all of the first load of Duane's logs, had to clean him out with a second load.

That and we have been beating ourselves half to death swinging a busting maul breaking up a couple of Ash trees. That stove has eaten maybe 1/4 of those two trees. If I could possibly break the rest of those logs up, I'd be good through Feb.

If it burns down to gray ash, I throw in camshaft box, two dry logs, several smaller Ash branch pieces, and one-two big wet Ash logs and she is happy with that for 8 hours at least. Throw in three big logs and as the new yorkers say, -Fa-get-ah-bout-it

Get those pre rangers together and rent a hydraulic splitter for a day. Worth the money and a good one will take 3 people to keep it fed.
I think when my rich uncle dies in the poor house, I might buy that log splitter attachment for the front of spud. have the prerangers cut down the tree, then saw it up into chunks, then I'll turn down the tunes, set my sweet tea down next to the AC vent, drive over and bust them up

Those things are pretty whimpy and labor intensive, we had them for the three point on our tractor I think I sent you this link before but here it is again.

Real Man spliter https://www.timberwolfequip.com/tw-10rc-log-splitter/

One My Dad bought AFTER I left home https://www.timberwolfequip.com/tw-5e-log-splitter/  I was home on leave and helped him cut wood, I could barley keep up with it and all I was doing was rolling the log over and picking up split stuff and throwing in the truck.

They are made in the USA I know you and the Chinaperson have a thing going now.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on December 31, 2018, 01:36:15 PM
Looks like a lot of machines to chose from, but is a fully auto needed? For what they really use a good set of saws and a splitter is all he really needs.

He has the labor on site,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: TexasRedNeck on December 31, 2018, 02:12:15 PM
Much like millennials and liberals I find it best to go first class when someone else is paying for it.


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Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: wilsonphil on December 31, 2018, 04:08:41 PM
Looks like a lot of machines to chose from, but is a fully auto needed? For what they really use a good set of saws and a splitter is all he really needs.

He has the labor on site,,,,,,,,,

Yes he might have labor for the short term, after you pickup a few 100lb log sections it starts to become OLD, throw a few smashed fingers in the mix and those "automatic" features become nice!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bob Smith on December 31, 2018, 04:22:03 PM
I really think he needs to feed that thing max length and weight he can handle. The smaller the pieces the faster they burn.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on December 31, 2018, 05:10:53 PM
Go to surplus center and build your own. I've built several with 40 ton rams. The one draw back or change I would make if building one from scratch again (currently have a heavy Ibeam in my shop with a ram mounted and a 4 way head already built) is to push with a solid plate into a 4 way splitter at the end and then have a chute built off the end that would push the split chunks up a ramp and drop it into a trailer. This way you could take trailer over and just stack without bending over to pick it all off the ground. I think imo that is the least expensive and best route. If anyone ever needs help building one I can pick apart what not to do pretty quick on a design, don't ask how...…. :facepalm:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: TexasRedNeck on December 31, 2018, 05:24:19 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181231/4cf43158164416757a4b38b56e040947.gif)


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Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on January 12, 2019, 08:15:12 PM
Update: I am continuing to learn how to run this thing

One thing i learned recently is to load the wood deeper into the burn chamber. Also to cut the wood up to three feet long, although it will eat four foot logs with ease.

Bu doing this and feeding it a diet of just felled two year dead ash, it is staying around 160F for most of the day/night and only after 12+ hours does the temp start to dive. This morning it was holding 135F while it was snowing! Inside the house with OAT in the low 20's it maintained 71-74F which if freakin amazing.

When working in my garage, I throw on the blower and in 20-40 min it is actually getting uncomfortably warm in there.

It appears to be pretty well insulated too!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on January 12, 2019, 08:16:01 PM
Suffered some wind damage...Broke a rivet
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on January 12, 2019, 08:55:40 PM
That is pretty cool its working well. How long until it pays for itself?
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on January 12, 2019, 09:08:05 PM
Stack needs some guide wires
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: rpar86 on January 13, 2019, 01:53:18 AM
I believe it is actually “guy” wires.


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Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on January 13, 2019, 08:11:02 AM
I believe it is actually “guy” wires.


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I believe you’re right. However, it is located in the tuck so it’s close enough..... :wink:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on January 13, 2019, 11:42:05 AM
That is pretty cool its working well. How long until it pays for itself?
Well, let me see if I can field that question...

So winter months, my electric bill runs in the $500 range with a high of usually $750 for the coldest month. That amount pays for obviously the heat pump, and the auxiliary heat coils which activate anytime we fall below 30's. Some of the electric cost is for hot water as well. Now the boiler is doing all the heating and maybe 90% of the hot water.

Now if I look at the bill I get in may, which has no heat not AC expense since all of that is not used, I spend around $170. Of that $170 some of that was the hot water heating. I can only venture a guess, but I think maybe 25% might be fair. So factoring that out, I should have a base electric cost of $127.

So if I average three months out I come up with a monthly electricity cost of $583. We know the actual base electricity cost is $127, so I am looking at a theoretical savings of $456 a month or $1368 for those three months being Dec-Jan-Feb. I suspect that I will also see some savings in November and in March, say half as much or another $456. So I'm looking at saving $1824 per year.

The total cost of everything needed to purchase and install was something under $8000, but lets just use that number. $8000/$1824= 4.4 (ish) years. Let's call 2018/19 winter as the 0.4, which means that by the end of 2023 the system will have paid for itself. Looking forward for ten full years and I would have saved $10,944. The thing has a minimum life of 25 years which means that by using my own fuel supply at no cost, I will save over $45,000 in 2018 dollars.

This thing is a game changer. Another way of looking at it, I could purchase 1,025,788 gallons of sweet tea for free! ;-)
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on January 13, 2019, 11:44:08 AM
Oh and I have a WBTT (Wood burner technique tip)

Save all the paper products you were trashing and use them in the morning to stoke up the flames when reloading the firey mouth. Turn pizza boxes into BTU's, and increase your carbon footprint so that peeps will remember you!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bob Smith on January 13, 2019, 12:10:29 PM
Don, don't know if your figures are right but the winter time warmth in the house/garage is priceless. "O" own fuel cost is a bit low isn't it?
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on January 13, 2019, 01:02:09 PM
Don, don't know if your figures are right but the winter time warmth in the house/garage is priceless. "O" own fuel cost is a bit low isn't it?
Not really...
I get the wood for free, and I go to from the farm anyway hauling a trailer which now comes topped up with wood, so there really isn't any cost of wood to speak of. Maybe you can argue it costs something for the gas that runs my chain saw, or the cost of getting the chains sharpened...But I would have cut those trees anyway, clearing dead or nuisance trees off the farm. So overlapping costs??? Depends on which column you list them in on the accounting ledger I suppose

And you are so right on the heat. In past winters the howse was chilly while I strived to shave off something from my too big heating bill. Now I am as warm as I want to be. I don't get anxiety while people talk to others with the front door open or leave the garage door open, It's just no longer any deal at all. And working out there in the garage in the warmth with no diesel or kerosene fumes is really nice too.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on January 13, 2019, 05:26:11 PM
That is still pretty good either way. You do have the time of cutting and moving wood too, but as you said it is a trade off.

Sorta the way with solar here. Getting better but I spent 18k putting it in, got $6k back on taxes (not a write off) and with just using gas now (cooking. heating, hot water) my winter bill is $125, summer les than $60. Then with the true up (what you use over producing) I pay about another $100 a month. Now they have a new rate setup too where power will be the most expensive from 1600-2000. Just right for the high use AC people. Now I only have a 4k system that pretty much works from 0900 to 1900, but adding another 4K this year on the southwest side that will catch all the late afternoon and more winter sun.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: kampfitt on January 14, 2019, 11:10:12 AM
Do a write up on your solar system. Lots of us looking to cut our bills to the power company !!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on January 14, 2019, 02:00:43 PM
JR, didn't you do a summary somewhere about your system? I know Sam did a readers digest version of his far north system.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on January 14, 2019, 02:08:02 PM
I may have. Was put on just about the time whole this foray was begun.

Probaly have a new system to do later this year in NV. Nice thing is I have a buddy in the industry now and I get cost :cool:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: TexasRedNeck on January 14, 2019, 07:04:44 PM
I’d like to learn JR. Any info is appreciated.


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Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Sammconn on January 15, 2019, 09:06:06 PM
My only two cents on solar.

Don’t buy 12 volt stuff.
Way overpriced for the everyday 12 volt guy.

Buy big higher voltage panels and a good mppt controller.
I was in about $2 per watt including everything but batteries.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on January 15, 2019, 09:31:16 PM
My only two cents on solar.

Don’t buy 12 volt stuff.
Way overpriced for the everyday 12 volt guy.

Buy big higher voltage panels and a good mppt controller.
I was in about $2 per watt including everything but batteries.

San,
So would you recommend 24V or 48, or???

I plan to put my well on a 24 volt setup, but when I power up the roof of the "Shed" with panels feeding batteries, I am wondering what I should shoot for???
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Sammconn on January 15, 2019, 09:44:19 PM
Hindsight 48 but solely for efficiency reasons. And the gains are small.
Depending on load higher is better.
I wouldn’t recommend less than 24 however, everything copper turns huge, and stresses on electronic stuff is Exponetially higher.

I’m running 3 kW of ac power. That is likely the smart limit for 24 VDC.
Larger I’d suggest 48. Once you’re into this stuff voltage doesn’t really change hard parts cost.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on January 15, 2019, 09:55:33 PM
Hindsight 48 but solely for efficiency reasons. And the gains are small.
Depending on load higher is better.
I wouldn’t recommend less than 24 however, everything copper turns huge, and stresses on electronic stuff is Exponetially higher.

I’m running 3 kW of ac power. That is likely the smart limit for 24 VDC.
Larger I’d suggest 48. Once you’re into this stuff voltage doesn’t really change hard parts cost.
Another learning curve to climb up!
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: TexasRedNeck on January 15, 2019, 10:56:05 PM
Sam if you have any reliable reading links for research and education it would be appreciated.


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Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on January 15, 2019, 11:20:00 PM
My new system is 48v and 4000watts. Using an SMA inverter that also has 1500 watt AC when the grid is down. Installed system is 4000w also, with a SolarEdge inverter. It only operates when the grid is up (as most do) so what I don't use, I get credit (very small). It will pay for itself in another 6 years.

I agree on the 48 volt panels and prices have really come down. Half my panels are new, half are used (1-2 years) but the price reflected that. Backup batteries are easy to series, but you need a lot of capacity to runs things of grid and not kill them. 

My new system will supplement my old system and I will post the setup and both inverters when I do it. In a new thread of course. That will not be the new property, but that will get a combo of it all and maybe wind, we will see.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: stlaser on January 29, 2019, 10:52:55 PM
Don, keep us posted on how the beast handles this cold snap
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on January 30, 2019, 12:30:09 PM
Don, keep us posted on how the beast handles this cold snap
Roger that!

So we "weathered the first night of this intense cold with flying colors. The outside began at 20F, ending in the morning hours around zero F. All the while we maintained 69F inside the house with the boiler as the only source of heat. The upstairs floor was actually uncomfortably hot, although I had the ceiling fan on to try to force circulation.

Now having said that, the boiler's appetite has grown to epic proportions. We are loading it every 6-8 hours with A LOT of wood. I'd say I throw in 10-12 large chunks of split Ash at each loading. But that wood is keeping the boiler at a low of 128 up to an observed high of 144F. Just a little while ago, I saw 132F while loading in -1F and a 25-30 mile per hour wind. The wind had the visibility down to 1/4 mile in blowing snow. That is a great testament to the insulation Tim packs on this boiler.

So right now, the reported wind chill is -30 with a static of -1F. The house interior is 70F. So that is a delta of +100 degrees. That darned thing is raising the interior temp of over 5,500 sq/ft by a hundred degrees over what the brick outside is feeling.

I think that is remarkable.

Oh and last month's electric bill was $202. Jan 2018 was $550 by comparison. And the wood I am burning is all from deadfall cuttings off my meager 2.5 acre lot this castle is sitting on.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: KensAuto on January 30, 2019, 12:59:41 PM
I was watching a logging channel and the guy had a similar boiler, I think in Indiana, and he throws 2-3 large unsplit chunks in twice a day. I would say 18"-22" diameter from what I could tell. have you tried not splitting the wood once she's going good?
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on January 30, 2019, 03:29:44 PM
I was watching a logging channel and the guy had a similar boiler, I think in Indiana, and he throws 2-3 large unsplit chunks in twice a day. I would say 18"-22" diameter from what I could tell. have you tried not splitting the wood once she's going good?
Sure have. As long as the thing is up and running with a good bed of coals, it will digest anything that will fit through the door.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: JR on January 30, 2019, 04:41:07 PM
Maybe it is time to see just what it will eat?
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bigdave_185 on January 31, 2019, 08:27:43 AM
Are we suggesting libtards?


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Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Sammconn on January 31, 2019, 08:15:37 PM
The split wood will definitely speed the time to refill.
I like big unsplit chunks for night time if a good burn is needed.

I’d second moving to unsplit for at least some of your wood.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bear9350 on January 31, 2019, 09:55:08 PM
If it fits and you can lift/ slide it in it's not to big.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bob Smith on February 01, 2019, 12:22:09 AM
If it fits and you can lift/ slide it in it's not to big.



 :beercheers:
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: rpar86 on February 01, 2019, 12:27:21 AM
If it fits and you can lift/ slide it in it's not to big.
So Kens girlfriend won’t fit?


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Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on February 01, 2019, 08:24:12 AM
If it fits and you can lift/ slide it in it's not to big.
I know that

I have thrown some odd pieces in like a stump, a Y-section that had to weigh 150 lbs. Ate all of that. Last night I lined it fron front to back. It tends to burn best center-back beneath the flue. So I spread wood all the way to the door. This morning only one partially burned log remained and the house was a toasty 71F this morning when we got up.

Learning how to run the thing is definitely a part of making it work better. All in all, I'd only comment that your suggestions of burning uncut logs is correct and if you have the one my size, i'd invest in a log splitter. You are going to go through a lot of wood. Now having said that, I got a few cords off Duane and other than that have been burning 4our Ash trees that i dropped on my castle property. I still have several 8'-12' 30"+ diameter logs remaining. I am saving those to saw up into timbers to make tables out of for us and the girls. So 4-5 trees + some is what it will take, depending on how cold it gets.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Bigdave_185 on February 01, 2019, 09:06:19 AM
If it fits and you can lift/ slide it in it's not to big.
So Kens girlfriend won’t fit?


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Oh the stench that would make across the neighborhood, all the burning hair!

Don have you had any of the HOA neighbors say anything about the new heating unit? Does it smell the neighborhood of fire/smoke?


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Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on February 01, 2019, 11:16:28 AM
If it fits and you can lift/ slide it in it's not to big.
So Kens girlfriend won’t fit?


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Oh the stench that would make across the neighborhood, all the burning hair!

Don have you had any of the HOA neighbors say anything about the new heating unit? Does it smell the neighborhood of fire/smoke?


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No, surprisingly quiet here
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: dave945 on October 25, 2019, 09:10:36 AM
Hey Don, have you fired up the boiler this year yet?  Or are you waiting for the cold snap to hit?  Just curious how it is going with that.  I’m doing planning for doing an install at my house and I’m trying to figure out location for the boiler and routing of the Pex lines and such.


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Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on October 25, 2019, 12:02:23 PM
Hey Don, have you fired up the boiler this year yet?  Or are you waiting for the cold snap to hit?  Just curious how it is going with that.  I’m doing planning for doing an install at my house and I’m trying to figure out location for the boiler and routing of the Pex lines and such.


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Dave the boiler rusted out this summer. I scrapped it for the steel value

Dave, I haven't fired it up just yet, but I can imagine I am not far from doing so

One of the above statements is true
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 04, 2019, 03:28:44 PM
I guess Dave wasn't amused...

Anyway, I fired up the boiler for the winter

This time it ran great right out of the chock blocks.

I allowed the water temp to hit 165 before switching on the pumps.

The outside temp fell to 28 over the night whereas the inside of the house stayed at a warm 74F

The next morning the temp was still in the upper 160's and I didn't feed it any more wood. Many hours later around 1800 and after a very mild day in the 50's the water temp was at 124F. I threw in a bunch of logs and again it kept the house toasty warm.

I had both electric heaters on my heat pumps turned off at the breaker panel and the hot water heater breaker shut off as well.

This morning I took a very exaggerated hot shower and at no time did the water start to cool off. Now, obviously as the mean daily temp takes a nose dive, the unit will become more and more challenged, but I think I learned to feed it more wood, have drier wood, and rake the coals every morning.

So my electrical home budget are lights, stove, fans, electronics and a peripheral once in awhile like my saws or a welder.
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Nate on November 22, 2019, 09:33:18 AM
I think we need a review like this from you...lol

https://youtu.be/q2QTK66lJJA
Title: Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
Post by: Flyin6 on November 22, 2019, 08:39:16 PM
I think we need a review like this from you...lol

https://youtu.be/q2QTK66lJJA
That was a good one to be sure

I will concur that to own and operate one of these means that you have bought into a lot of work. So far, I have spent around half a day or more cutting and loading my dump trailer, bringing it home, then stacking it in the garage. It has become my heavy workout day.

I can also confirm the large amount of wood the thing consumes. I'd say he is right on at 10-12 cords of wood per heating season, possibly as high as 15.

The maintenance is minimal

but the return is worth it.

I like to work hard in the cold, this thing mandates you to put in the effort

No arguing the electricity savings of around $500 a month for my home.

The best thing is how warm the air is coming out of the registers. It isn't hot, but is very warm and just feels great.
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