In the market for a farm truck --- gas or diesel? I need knowledge

[stewie]

mods, please feel free to move if needed.

Preface:
Right now i own a subaru forrester. yes, i call her the granola burner and others have called it the lezburu, but that car can go anywhere and do just about anything and hasn't cost me a dime outside of routine maintenance. the downfall is its my daily driver and has a very low towing capacity and not the most powerful engine. it does haul the 5x8 trailer i have and roam the farm for light work at times, but soon we're going to be rolling out livestock and getting into more and more large projects. My wife and i are looking at getting a crew cab pickup in a few months and are now doing our due diligence and test driving to make a good, wise decision. We see this as an investment for our land and vision.

Let's Go:
We need a crew/dual cab, 4wd and are leaning diesel because of the durability and towing capacity. We have been looking at Ford F250's in the 2005-2010 range, the gmc/chevy 2500 and the dodge 2500 series. Our budget is about $20K tops. We test drove a 250 the other day (2005) and i was VERY impressed. I did read and am learning about all the problems the 6.0's had so it has me wary of a 6.0 powerstroke however i've found a few with aftermarket header studs, etc to handle the pressure/cooling issues the 6.0's had.

Being in TX, i am seeing it's hard to find a NON beat to hell chevy or dodge diesel with 4wd. Most are rwd, and 4wd is required because of the farm use (blackland prairie is like soup in the smallest amount of rain)

We are open to gas powered options like the silverado 1500, f150 and dodge ram 1500 - same price range of course. There are so many used one out here, but most are RWD.

Now, i know a diesel is just beginning life @ 200K, but could i get the same durability out of a well maintained 5.4 vortec or similar?

Are there other things i should look for/avoid/seek out in each make and model?

I'm all ears.

[stlaser]

Stay away (like the plague) the Ford 6.0L motors. I don't care who or what has been done to the motor. Between my bil & I we spent 20k in "miracle" repairs on two separate trucks

[stewie]

Stay away (like the plague) the Ford 6.0L motors. I don't care who or what has been done to the motor. Between my bil & I we spent 20k in "miracle" repairs on two separate trucks

noted. thats been my view since i found out.

[stlaser]

If you can find one I did hear the newer Ford built diesel motor has been very popular.

Edit: I've also been contemplating a new truck of the 1/2 ton variety (can't believe I just admitted that) most likely a GM product as I have around 5k in rebates I should probably turn in and use this century. My thought is just to lease one for 3 ish years then maybe I'll have a need for another hd truck. Was thinking after 1st quarter about going to see the local stealer....

[Atkinsmatt]

Check on line. Someone could check things out for you and you might find exactly what you are looking for with some travel.

[Flyin6]

I wouldn't even tell anyone you liked those F250's with the 6.0

I mentioned many times about the fleet of them we were "Issued" in Kandahar. All 6.0 diesel automatics. Some were up-armored, some not. Some were crew cabs and we even had some converted E250 Econoline vans which were lifted and had 4WD with big Dana 60 front axles.

After the first year we had about half of the 10-12 trucks still running. I think four didn't make it to 1000 miles, some hajji blew one up, and of the others they wouldn't start, were suffering all sorts of problems, and best of all? No Ford garages, no ford mechanics. We pilots make a deal with the Army guys and scored a Humvee, and another deal with the Royal Marines who gave us a defender 110, easily the best truck we had over there.

Don't get a half tom, definitely a 3/4 to 1 ton. I'd say a diesel because when you find one with 250K it will give you nearly that much more. Especially if its a Cummins. Look at Dually's for sure. Chevy's are OK, but for my dime second behind the 2005 Dodge 5.9 Cummins truck but slightly ahead of the later 6.7 liter Cummins. By 2010 you're all done. the 11's chevys have that terrible DEF, tree huger juice. I had to delete my truck to get the power and mileage I wanted. Now my huge Chevy, weighing in at 8,700 lbs can cruise to my farm and back and get 20.3 MPG. Towing a trailer, the lowest it will produce is high 15's-mid 16's.

A 1994-1997 Dodge 2500-3500 are choice picks. All mechanical hosting the best Cummins 6BT engine ever made, the 12 valve. It will make 200 horsepower or 600 HP. Happy with 400 ft/lbs, cool. Need more you can turn it up to 1300 or more ft lbs easily. It will get 20's most of the time and when you wear the truck out, pull the motor and put it into something else for another lifetime!

[stewie]

I wouldn't even tell anyone you liked those F250's with the 6.0

I mentioned many times about the fleet of them we were "Issued" in Kandahar. All 6.0 diesel automatics. Some were up-armored, some not. Some were crew cabs and we even had some converted E250 Econoline vans which were lifted and had 4WD with big Dana 60 front axles.

After the first year we had about half of the 10-12 trucks still running. I think four didn't make it to 1000 miles, some hajji blew one up, and of the others they wouldn't start, were suffering all sorts of problems, and best of all? No Ford garages, no ford mechanics. We pilots make a deal with the Army guys and scored a Humvee, and another deal with the Royal Marines who gave us a defender 110, easily the best truck we had over there.

Don't get a half tom, definitely a 3/4 to 1 ton. I'd say a diesel because when you find one with 250K it will give you nearly that much more. Especially if its a Cummins. Look at Dually's for sure. Chevy's are OK, but for my dime second behind the 2005 Dodge 5.9 Cummins truck but slightly ahead of the later 6.7 liter Cummins. By 2010 you're all done. the 11's chevys have that terrible DEF, tree huger juice. I had to delete my truck to get the power and mileage I wanted. Now my huge Chevy, weighing in at 8,700 lbs can cruise to my farm and back and get 20.3 MPG. Towing a trailer, the lowest it will produce is high 15's-mid 16's.

A 1994-1997 Dodge 2500-3500 are choice picks. All mechanical hosting the best Cummins 6BT engine ever made, the 12 valve. It will make 200 horsepower or 600 HP. Happy with 400 ft/lbs, cool. Need more you can turn it up to 1300 or more ft lbs easily. It will get 20's most of the time and when you wear the truck out, pull the motor and put it into something else for another lifetime!

good stuff. i would go older, but i want my wife to feel at ease and comfortable driving it. she's one of those security moms who would drive an m1 abrams with a booster seat in back if she could. im not going to pick a fight with my butter pican rican over a vehicle she doesnt like. i wont live it down and she will never drive it out of spite. ;-)

we looked at a handful of dodge ram 1500's online. they are gas powered but the HEMI's have a lot of torque and the interiors seem comfy for my wife.

we are looking at dually's but we gotta keep it around 20K max. i dont want to go into car debt if i can avoid it.

[Atkinsmatt]

It might help to keep the suburu if that is an option

[stewie]

It might help to keep the suburu if that is an option

subaru isn't going anywhere.

we're also contemplating the tundra and titan if she likes the way they drive. ( i know i am probably committing a mortal sin and speaking herrasy)

[Bear9350]

For the price range you are looking at and from what it sounds like you are doing I think a 2500 gas would more than fit your bill.  Saves you more than a few grand allowing you to find something a little newer with lower miles etc..

Sure a diesel is always nice for the power, and if you are going to be doing a ton of driving the fuel mileage is better.  It really doesn't sound like you need any more power than a gasser would provide.  How many miles you do you plan to put on it in a year?  Unless you are putting a ton of miles on it you will never see the pay-off for a gas over diesel.  For $20,000 I am guessing you could find a 2010 2500 gasser without to much issue.

The half ton trucks would probably also get the job done for you if you needed it to.  Depending on what make you are looking at be aware that in the older GM products atleast you are stuck with a 5"9" box with the crew cabs I think.  Not real sure about the other makes.

I bought my 2012 Duramax a few years ago and am in the process of trying to sell it now.  I don't need the power etc.. and a half-ton truck would more than suffice for what I do.  The money I spent on the diesel option and a 3/4 ton truck could be better used elsewhere right now.

My brother just purchase a 2011 1500 Silverado last night.  He also considered the Tundras and Titans.  Around here anyway he would have been paying about a $2500 premium over a GM or Ford.  I think he got the dealer down to $22500 for a 2011 extended cab (he wanted ext cab for the 6-1/2' box) with a little less than 50,000 miles.

[Wilbur]

I think you've gotten some pretty good advice on 1/2 ton v. 3/4 or 1 ton, and gas v. Diesel. The only thing I would caution you on and it's probably moot as you're in TX which is the biggest pickup market in the US, but make sure you're not getting a used one from the salt belt. Around here the Dodge's rust like the dickens....saw a 5 yo one the other day and surface rust already appearing on the outside of the bed over the rear wheels. My buddy's 2 yo Dodge has rust in the bed at the tailgate. So just check where it lived prior to you buying it. Like I say, probably moot for you, but double check.

[cj7ox]

If you decide to go with a Dodge diesel, look for the 2006-2007 5.9 Cummins, 3500. The Cummins was a $5k option on the 2500s, so the 3500s should come out a little cheaper, and are more robust. Bigger rear ring gear, overload springs, and most had a geared limited slip in the rear. 2003-2005 Cummins trucks had some lift pump issues that were resolved in 2006. Also, the 2000-2003ish Ram 1500 4x4s had some ball joint issues. I've got a 2006 Ram 3500, 4 door, 4x4, 6 speed manual, single rear wheel truck that I've owned since new. It's got 260k+ miles, and I've only spent $2000 in repairs on it (clutch, and 3 number 3 injector lines). It averages 18mpg, with 20ish mpg on long highway trips (would get better if I didn't have a bit of a lead foot). Worst mileage I've ever had was 13mpg, towing a 10k load at 80mph. It's a great truck.

[stlaser]

Titan has cummins option.....

[EL TATE]

early Titans from a drivetrain perspective are garbage. They put a modified dana 44 like the JK under a slightly more than 1/2 ton truck w/ more power and towing capacity than the diff can handle. They also outsourced their diffs from dana overseas and are unable to sell individual parts to repair them, thus $3000 complete housings are your only option if you have a single spider gear fail... bad juju. can't speak for the diesel option, as I've not sold parts for one yet, but I would imagine they would have a more robust rear end. FWIW, I sell aftermarket components for the titan diffs about once a week.

[stlaser]

Good info, thanks Tate

[stewie]

good stuff all. thanks. we're going to be buying in april-ish so when mid march rolls around we're going hot and heavy on finding one. for now, i need to learn. When it comes to buying cars, im an asshole and always want to walk in knowing everything so i can sniff out dealer BS easier.

we're leaning HEMI right now. the dodge seems to have the interior my wife likes and the power i want.

I think you've gotten some pretty good advice on 1/2 ton v. 3/4 or 1 ton, and gas v. Diesel. The only thing I would caution you on and it's probably moot as you're in TX which is the biggest pickup market in the US, but make sure you're not getting a used one from the salt belt. Around here the Dodge's rust like the dickens....saw a 5 yo one the other day and surface rust already appearing on the outside of the bed over the rear wheels. My buddy's 2 yo Dodge has rust in the bed at the tailgate. So just check where it lived prior to you buying it. Like I say, probably moot for you, but double check.

i was born and raised in NY so i am very aware of rust. my NY purchased jeep and pathfinder rusted out and were such nightmares to maintain because of the salt.
if we bought i'd make sure the carfax showed a southern/southwest place of ownership.

my wifes honda pilot was a Cali car and aside from where a rock nailed it on the hood, there is no rust at all. I dont think that car ever saw rain until we bought it and moved to TX. lol.

[OldKooT]

I'd spend $2500 on a pickup, detail the Suburu, and maybe change the oil, and go on with life.

if you use the truck as God intended...$2500 is plenty LoL

[OldKooT]

I can vouch for Tate's experience with the Titan...they were all the rage around here, most now have broken the rear axle at least once.

If buying a Dodge Hemi truck, consider a clean used a Power Wagon. That way you get some man toys that can be useful on the ranch if you will. (lockers, Winch) and better resale.

All used newer Dodge 3/4 tons will likely need ball joints, front wheel bearings are always suspect on these, and many need a upgraded track bar. Otherwise they are fairly decent trucks that can work hard when needed. Oh and if the Hemi has a "tick" walk away...

None of the above is too bad if you do your own repairs cost wise...if you pay someone....do some research.

My Son owns a 2013 Power Wagon... as much as I tease him about his girly truck, it has held up well enough to some serious abuse on the farm. It's all pretty and shiny, and has a backup camera and sat radio and navigation, and well...yah. But...

When it comes to maybe scuffing the paint, or horribly overloading a suspension, or hauling stupid heavy things...or chasing Coyotes through the fields...I notice he always suggests we use my truck.

[moto123]

For the price range you are looking at and from what it sounds like you are doing I think a 2500 gas would more than fit your bill.  Saves you more than a few grand allowing you to find something a little newer with lower miles etc..

I will agree.  The diesel power is awesome if you are going to "play" with it.  But if you want a simple reliable truck that can sit on the farm all month, then run when you need it to, with cheap and minimal maintenance, the gasser is the better value.  I looked at all my options when I bought mine and ended up last year paying $26,000 for a 2009 chevy 2500HD will all the options (heated leather and backup camera) with the 6.0L gas engine.  It had 80k miles.  It will do more than I need it to, including hauling tractors and skid loaders.  Yes the fuel mileage is not great, but I only do that once or twice a year.  Gas mileage empty is actually not that bad.  For any long distance traveling you will probably use the car anyway.  I was comparing apples to apples, even the same year, color, etc and found that the duramax would cost nearly $10,000 more.  Plus the additional maintenance cost and the "you're not going to leave it stock" factor.  I couldn't justify it for my use.

Now if you are convinced, then you really have two options (because the ford gas motor sucks).  You are either looking at a hemi 2500 dodge or a 6.0L 2500HD chevy.  I chose the chevy because the interior (in 2009 with the LTZ package) is more refined, the seats are way better and the 6.0 produces more power than the 5.7.  If you are looking for something earlier than 2007, the interiors are more or less both equivalent.  BUT, and this is a big BUT, the chevy rear doors are available full sized and the dodge rear doors are only small size.  Maybe not for you, but this was a huge deal for me because of car seats.

[moto123]

Oh forgot to mention, you should rule out the 1/2 ton trucks because everything on them suspension wise will wear out faster.  Also the Chevrolet 5.3L engines with active fuel management have been failing at an alarming rate ever since they installed that system in 2007.  Avoid ALL of them.

[stewie]

Oh forgot to mention, you should rule out the 1/2 ton trucks because everything on them suspension wise will wear out faster.  Also the Chevrolet 5.3L engines with active fuel management have been failing at an alarming rate ever since they installed that system in 2007.  Avoid ALL of them.

as a rule of thumb, i avoid any government motors vehicle between 2006-2009. that's when they put out some of the biggest piles of garbage since the 80's and early 90's. We came close to getting a buick SUV back in 2011 (it was a 2008). that's when i became aware bailout quality vehicles.

[moto123]

I think you may be right about all of the cars, SUV's and other products.  But I hadn't seen any issues with the trucks.  Maybe because they were coming out of a different factory?  The truck body style also changed in 2007, so bailout or not they were bound to have a few issues with the first year of a new design.  But I don't think the 06 models were any better or worse than the previous years before that.

[stewie]

maybe, maybe not. I was shocked to find out the dodge pickups are made in mexico. 

when the time to buy gets closer, ill probably start throwing up the listings here for feedback. i "shopped" for 6 months before getting my granola burner. im in no rush for this, but i have to have one by late spring/early summer the latest.

[cj7ox]

  BUT, and this is a big BUT, the chevy rear doors are available full sized and the dodge rear doors are only small size.  Maybe not for you, but this was a huge deal for me because of car seats.

My 2006 4 door Ram 3500 has full size doors in the rear. Just sayin' 

[moto123]

OK fair enough, I did exclude the megacab.  But if he really needed that much back seat space, then he would have already bought one and this thread would not exist. :)

[stewie]

OK fair enough, I did exclude the megacab.  But if he really needed that much back seat space, then he would have already bought one and this thread would not exist. :)

i've got a 6 year old who's growing like a weed and she has friends and cousins who of course would wanna ride in uncle and aunt stewie's cool truck.

[OldKooT]

Dodge trucks have been made in Mexico since about 1988....give or take a little depending on Model. Which is closer to the USA than the Suburu LoL

[stewie]

Dodge trucks have been made in Mexico since about 1988....give or take a little depending on Model. Which is closer to the USA than the Suburu LoL

My Subaru is as jap as it can get... and reliable. I haven't owned an "American made" car since roughly 2006 so this truck purchase will be my leap of faith back into "domestic" vehicles.

Mexico is still Mexico. But even it it was built "here" in sure it would have been built by Mexicans anyway. I mentioned that because I though dodge was an American brand built by 'mericans!

[stewie]

test drove an 05 silverado 1500 today. aside from how fricken comfortable the seats were, i wasn't impressed. mileage was high and had a nice amount of rust on it..

we then saw a suburban 2500 LT with a 6.0. we said... what the heck, lets see it. lol, we fell in love. this thing is a tank. its an 07 with 124K. Its been sitting on the lot for a while so I am guessing the market for those here isnt all that great. Anyway, we're debating using that as a family/hauling vehicle, then getting a beater pickup when my granola burner is paid off and using that for farm use.

we're still debating and discussing, but my wife rarely says she likes driving something, and its in our price range. I need to read up on that year and setup.

[Bigdave_185]

For the price range you are looking at and from what it sounds like you are doing I think a 2500 gas would more than fit your bill.  Saves you more than a few grand allowing you to find something a little newer with lower miles etc..

Sure a diesel is always nice for the power, and if you are going to be doing a ton of driving the fuel mileage is better.  It really doesn't sound like you need any more power than a gasser would provide.  How many miles you do you plan to put on it in a year?  Unless you are putting a ton of miles on it you will never see the pay-off for a gas over diesel.  For $20,000 I am guessing you could find a 2010 2500 gasser without to much issue.

The half ton trucks would probably also get the job done for you if you needed it to.  Depending on what make you are looking at be aware that in the older GM products atleast you are stuck with a 5"9" box with the crew cabs I think.  Not real sure about the other makes.

I bought my 2012 Duramax a few years ago and am in the process of trying to sell it now.  I don't need the power etc.. and a half-ton truck would more than suffice for what I do.  The money I spent on the diesel option and a 3/4 ton truck could be better used elsewhere right now.

My brother just purchase a 2011 1500 Silverado last night.  He also considered the Tundras and Titans.  Around here anyway he would have been paying about a $2500 premium over a GM or Ford.  I think he got the dealer down to $22500 for a 2011 extended cab (he wanted ext cab for the 6-1/2' box) with a little less than 50,000 miles.

This here is sound advice, the gm 6.0 motor is amazing.  It pulls like a train and never gets better or worse mpg than 12.   Reliability high, parts are cheaper than diesel. I really liked mine and the newer 6.2 is posed to be a fantastic motor as well

I don't buy dodge anything as they are all plagued with electrical gremlins, however a coworker just bought a Hemi 2500 2016 for 28k which is pretty good for the $


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[Bob Smith]

Dave, I had two 6.0 chevy trucks, when towing my trailer in higher country and passes, I was down in the 7-8 MPG. Really drank the fuel but if I kept the rpm high enough, it pulled really well. Only problem with that motor was if I had to slow down for something, it was a struggle to get the rpm's back into the power band.

[Bigdave_185]

Mine didn't usually get much less than ten and the only issue I had was the left side exhaust manifold bolts
If I didn't like boost so much I would downgrade again.  That sound still gets me with a 3 inch flow master exhaust


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[Bob Smith]

I had forgotten about the manifolds. Both sides were replaced on my 2007. First side, I made an appointment to have the work done between deer and elk hunts. The dealer got it fixed but I missed elk season, slow parts delivery they claimed . I did the Right side myself when it went bad.

[Farmer Jon]

If you are in texas I suggest giving this place a look. We arer in Nebraska and we went here to buy our dodge 3500 for the farm. Everything up here was all rusted out or had a ton of miles. They get trucks in from all over the country. No pressure sales. My boss and spent all afternoon in the lot. Every time we found one we wanted to drive I just went to the office and got the keys. Found what we wanted made the deal and went home.

http://www.northtexastruckstop.com/

[stewie]

If you are in texas I suggest giving this place a look. We arer in Nebraska and we went here to buy our dodge 3500 for the farm. Everything up here was all rusted out or had a ton of miles. They get trucks in from all over the country. No pressure sales. My boss and spent all afternoon in the lot. Every time we found one we wanted to drive I just went to the office and got the keys. Found what we wanted made the deal and went home.

http://www.northtexastruckstop.com/

im willing to drive a bit for the right one. since 4wd is a requirement the picking in central tx are real slim. ill check it out.

[Flyin6]

3/4 ton burb would be nice

Should really suck the gas, but could tow easily

Better parts than the 1/2 ton version.

We owned two Surburbans and have to say, they were amongst our very favorite vehicles

[KensAuto]

One vehicle I regret giving up was my wife's Yukon (1/2 ton). She wanted an FJ cruiser....I said no way.

She's been enjoying the toyota for a few years now. lol

I personally think that you cant go wrong with a 6.0. Pretty dependable, and much cheaper than a diesel....initial cost, and maintenance.

[stewie]

for reference, here is the exact vehicle we test drove.
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/681372540/overview/

we really liked it and are aware and prepared for poor gas mileage. these guys are pretty persistent in getting a sale, but i dont think i would take it for their asking price. it needs new key fobs, wipers and all. the 3rd row seat was added in later, its not OEM to the vehicle. i think this truck may have been used for govt work, but carfax says it was personally owned.

drive and ride quality is excellent. my wife wants a 'tank' and all this thing needs is a 120 mm turret on top really.

[EL TATE]

test drove an 05 silverado 1500 today. aside from how fricken comfortable the seats were, i wasn't impressed. mileage was high and had a nice amount of rust on it..

we then saw a suburban 2500 LT with a 6.0. we said... what the heck, lets see it. lol, we fell in love. this thing is a tank. its an 07 with 124K. Its been sitting on the lot for a while so I am guessing the market for those here isnt all that great. Anyway, we're debating using that as a family/hauling vehicle, then getting a beater pickup when my granola burner is paid off and using that for farm use.

we're still debating and discussing, but my wife rarely says she likes driving something, and its in our price range. I need to read up on that year and setup.

classic Silverado body style or the new smooth door and bumper deal? the latter has been known to have fuel management issues, but with the mileage I would guess that's already been addressed.

[rpar86]

That's a pretty good price on that 3/4 ton 'burb. They're pretty hard to find. Plus down the road... diesel swap! :)

[stewie]

We're looking at an 09 right now fully loaded. My wife is in love with it and I hate car salesmen.

Drove all the way to Houston area to see it.

[OldKooT]

If in no hurry watch the GSA Aution site... they often sell burbs on there. In fact they have some low mileage ones on there now in Alaska LoL

[stewie]

If in no hurry watch the GSA Aution site... they often sell burbs on there. In fact they have some low mileage ones on there now in Alaska LoL

Good tip.

This one has an after market air intake and the whole 9 under the hood so there is an amaZing growl under the hood. 6 speed tranny is much nicer then the 4 speed we drove last weekend.

[JR]

I hated my 6.0 gm motor. Mileage sucked and really had no power. (06 1500hd)

I loved my old burb too, but all the 3/4 burbs have the 6.0 or 6.2 now.

If the deal goes south, check out west coast vehicles too. No rust and many have low miles.

[Bigdave_185]

I hated my 6.0 gm motor. Mileage sucked and really had no power. (06 1500hd)

I loved my old burb too, but all the 3/4 burbs have the 6.0 or 6.2 now.

If the deal goes south, check out west coast vehicles too. No rust and many have low miles.

Your 1500hd was a pile of a truck.  The gearing was different and you also had the lighter frame too.  Instead of eight inch channels you had six. Truck was a gimmic for Gm to say they had the most capacity for the halfton that year


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[stewie]

We may trade a vehicle in but I need to see the #s.

The k&n intake and all have this burb a lot of pep and the 6 speed felt great. I'm nervous about taking a note out on an 8 year old vehicle but it would serve duel roles for us.

The only thing this truck would need on my end is new tires in a year. They're replacing 2 of them and I hate having unmatched tires.

[JR]

My 06 1500HD had the full 3/4 frame but it had the 9.5 rear end. It even used the same UCA I am running now.

I didn't like it even though it was the same inside as my Dmax. The norm was 11-13mpg and sometimes 15 on the highway, even tuned!

[EL TATE]

We may trade a vehicle in but I need to see the #s.

The k&n intake and all have this burb a lot of pep and the 6 speed felt great. I'm nervous about taking a note out on an 8 year old vehicle but it would serve duel roles for us.

The only thing this truck would need on my end is new tires in a year. They're replacing 2 of them and I hate having unmatched tires.

Full time AWD or selectable 4WD on that Burb? if it's AWD, they can't change just two tires. if you purchase the vehicle would make that part of the deal to have all 4 changed at the same time. you're right to hate mismatched tires. it's bad news all around

[stewie]

We may trade a vehicle in but I need to see the #s.

The k&n intake and all have this burb a lot of pep and the 6 speed felt great. I'm nervous about taking a note out on an 8 year old vehicle but it would serve duel roles for us.

The only thing this truck would need on my end is new tires in a year. They're replacing 2 of them and I hate having unmatched tires.

Full time AWD or selectable 4WD on that Burb? if it's AWD, they can't change just two tires. if you purchase the vehicle would make that part of the deal to have all 4 changed at the same time. you're right to hate mismatched tires. it's bad news all around

selectable 4wd. it runs in 2wd unless we turn it on auto or 4H/L.

im getting them to fix a bunch of stuff on it if we take it.

when i bought my jeep cherokee back in 03, i didn't know all about the mechanics of transfer cases and unevenly worn tires. thank GOD i had an extended warranty. the whole front diff and transfer case went out in a snow storm. $4K repair.

with my subaru, it's AWD so they wear pretty evenly and i've for 60K on the set and can probably squeeze out another 10K on em, but they're cracking so they have to get replaced in the spring.

here is it...

[JR]

Love that body style, next to my square body.