Engine/Trans swap

[Flyin6]

OK, lets talk about an engine swap into my 2002 Suburban 2500.

Now that I have been driving it for awhile, but still have not towed the camper I built with it, I have to following observations:

It does have good low end torque for a gasser.

Although the engine is supercharged/Cam/Heads?tune it still doesn't have the power that my much less modified LML duramax has

It is running at too high of an RPM for a cruise at anything above 65 mph, it just starts to feel uncomfortable

The fuel mileage is horrendous. Not checked, but gross estimates has it around 10 at best.

So I can do one of two things,

I can stay with what I have and drive slow, refuel often, carry a bunch of added fuel cans, make a lot of noise

Swap to a diesel and a transmission with a much deeper overdrive. The 4L80E has a .75

[Flyin6]

Second part:

I will consider a straight up Duramax/Allison swap which although costly would probably the easiest and stay sort of stockish

Looking at other possibilities, I am toying with the idea of a (No kidding) moderately built 12 valve backed by an Allison 1000

Now the first is pretty straightforward. Find a donor/harness/trans and go for it. Rebuild like everything install and do some adapter harness

With respect to the 12 valve, I kind of like the dirt simple mechanical simplicity. It's not an electronic motor. It is barely an electric motor. It would run at a respectable engine speed.

4.88 axle ratio, 34.8" tire, 75 Mph, .614 OD = 2170 RPM

So that is liveable and 75 MPH is reasonable. A 12 valve would negate any expensive injectors, ever, no tuning, very little in the way of an adapter harness, and the fuel mileage should be 20 or better under ideal conditions.

Even though it is an 1100 lb chunk, coupled with a 330 lb allison, the torque this thing would make in a moderate trim of say 1000ish would propel the burb effortlessly. It would last forever, it would not be subject to EMP if i could shield the trans harness, there are parts everywhere, and it is really a one and done.

So lets talk about this possibility as a autumn/winter project

[Bigdave_185]

I feel like all of this is going in circles.   The dodge was supposed to be this, then that got sold for reasons.  The burb was improved version.   

Keep the burb as is. Buy a excursion and swap it, all the size, better running gear and more space


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[KensAuto]

Factory gearing back in the burb.

There, just saved you countless dollars and frustration.

Now, may I be so bold to recommend a raise based on the above?

[stlaser]

Factory gearing back in the burb.

There, just saved you countless dollars and frustration.

Now, may I be so bold to recommend a raise based on the above?

 

[dave945]

I guess that means your LS engine will be available. It’s used, so I guess I could help get it out of your way.  Might fit in the blazer.


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[TexasRedNeck]

Done, if you have the funds then the max swap is the cats arse.  You already know what its like to chase gremlins and a 12v swap would be like a battalion of gremlins.

Ive said this before and I’ll say it again.  LLY Heads and injectors on a LB7 block and LB7 ECM/FICM allows plug and play.  64mm turbo and basic tuning with 30 overs and you have a phenomenal machine with little stress on components.  As Ken pointed out you will have to regear.  Or get really really big tires.


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[Flyin6]

I'm feeling no love for the 12 valve idea

Personally I thought it would have been super cool.

I don't want to regear, again if I can keep from doing it.
It's just screaming to be diesel powered, but even with the .614 6th overdrive it would be turning 2100ish. But thinking about it, 2100ish is about what my D-max turns when its running 80 something. And that motor loves RPM's above 2,000
Smartest thing of all would be to just do nothing and drive a gasser, but two big downsides have me wanting:
Slow cruise speed
No range
And
That Duramax swap is pretty spendy

[TexasRedNeck]

To avoid re gearing, 40s would be the ticket.  .614 final drive (second OD ) with 4.88 has you turning 1636 at 65mph

Yes its expensive.  I offer no apologies.


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[Flyin6]

To avoid re gearing, 40s would be the ticket.  .614 final drive (second OD ) with 4.88 has you turning 1636 at 65mph

Yes its expensive.  I offer no apologies.


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40's...My gosh

that's huge

Wheel wells would disapprove

[TexasRedNeck]

37=1769


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[Flyin6]

37=1769


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Now that I could do.

But doesn't your duramax like running at 2K and above?

[Flyin6]

Thinking about it, a duramax would roast the tires right off that rig with no effort

[TexasRedNeck]

Max torque on DMax is usually 1650 IIRC. Above 2000 mileage drop off


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[Bigdave_185]

Sell it all and buy a Subaru


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[TexasRedNeck]

Might be easier to sell it and buy one complete


https://www.ebay.com/itm/2008-Chevrolet-Suburban-LTZ/124229200432?hash=item1ceca32a30:g:GzUAAOSwAJxe0u9C


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[Bigdave_185]

Lots of his parts should cross. Suspension, roof stuff,


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[wyorunner]

As for a 12v swap, rebuild the important parts before installing everything, no gremlins to chase. I did not do that, and while I’m not chasing gremlins, our truck is lacking in power and has a leaky IP, and the transmission probably needs rebuilt. But I learned a lesson, the very hard way, so it is what it is.

Also, just drive it, don’t take it on long trips. Then, later on write the check to pick it up a factory style duramax. There are companies that do that.

[swbhobie16]

i know a guy selling an LMM swapped burb with +07.5 denali front clip swap.

[Sammconn]

^ right there. Problem solved.

Don, you went all in twice already.
Now it’s a driver.
Now you want to go all in again.

Cut the cheque for one already running.
Well this one, lots of folks would love it.

Then do the few remaining upgrades the new one needs.
Yes you’re going to lose money.
Already have tho.

You’ll be farther ahead not having the headaches of the swaps, swaps, swapped stuff.

Just my two cents. You can fire me now.

[swbhobie16]

i know a guy selling an LMM swapped burb with +07.5 denali front clip swap.

i’ll have to resend the offer. he sold it to his best friend. i won’t post the price bc i don’t want to be shot.

that said, i would lean towards a duramax swap. but that’s just me. as long as the BCM stuff all works getting one to drop in and run stand alone wouldn’t be terrible. or take it to ATL and have them do it.

[dave945]

You could always just buy a new 2021 Suburban with the 3.0 duramax in it. Then you have it all plus warranty. It’d be like being back in the army, just drive it till it breaks and drop it off for someone else to fix. ;)


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[TexasRedNeck]

You could always just buy a new 2021 Suburban with the 3.0 duramax in it. Then you have it all plus warranty. It’d be like being back in the army, just drive it till it breaks and drop it off for someone else to fix. ;)


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Except that he would modify it and void the warranty. Cmon man use your head! Lol


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[Flyin6]

Might be easier to sell it and buy one complete


https://www.ebay.com/itm/2008-Chevrolet-Suburban-LTZ/124229200432?hash=item1ceca32a30:g:GzUAAOSwAJxe0u9C


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Disapproved
Apply later for final disapproval

[Flyin6]

^ right there. Problem solved.

Don, you went all in twice already.
Now it’s a driver.
Now you want to go all in again.

Cut the cheque for one already running.
Well this one, lots of folks would love it.

Then do the few remaining upgrades the new one needs.
Yes you’re going to lose money.
Already have tho.

You’ll be farther ahead not having the headaches of the swaps, swaps, swapped stuff.

Just my two cents. You can fire me now.

Yea, just so you know, you may be fired...

Not allowed to disagree with me at any point for any reason!

(Part of the site registration agreement you signed) Ha!

You're not a Dave so I know you are at least smart enough to know better
;-))

[Flyin6]

Note: None of you people know what you're talkin' about

I think I'll just do whatever I want to

(That's if momma gives me permission to, which is very doubtful...)

Sad, I know...

[JR]

I like the idea of the duraburb but don't undergear. 6BT in a square body is sweet too, but the Allison 1000 to that always seems to be an issue.

Duraburb, solid front axle (you still have one?) and 4.56 gears. With 35s I turn 1800@70. Best mileage is around 68 and thats 19mpg in a 8k truck with aggressive tires (yes it matters)

It really runs great like this, pulls hard and tows great (heavy too).

Look for a Duraburb that runs, slide that axle in there, move most of the gear to it form what you have and sell the gas hot rod.

JMHO

[Flyin6]

Well, as I explore the possibilities I want to look at everything.
I may arrive right back where I presently am, and if that's it, then so be it.

Speaking with Nick, he likes the gas 8.1 over the diesel. Less complicated of a swap, allison came stock in some and so forth. He suggested I give Raylar engineering a call and chat it up with them. They are the world's leading authority on the big vortec hybrid 8.1 (496 in) inch big block chevy.

The stocker 8.1 was hopelessly smogged but still made 400ish ft lbs.

So I did call Raylar and spoke with the owner some. After listening to me he recommended I build a 540 or a 572 which would have a fat cam and his aluminum heads along with a forged reciprocating assembly.

His non supercharged motor makes torque starting around 1500 RPM in the low 600 range and maintains that up until a little over 5,000. A blower on that and the torque jumps to 800-900 at the same RPMs. It's good useable power and also comes with 600-800HP is a streetable configuration optimized for heavy trucks.

I can get that whole thing under the hood, tuned and running for $12K-15K so that motor is also a viable consideration at this point. Add an allison to that and I could be warming up toward $20K so this is well into Duramax conversion territory.

Straight axle??? Why would I want to do that? Stock axle is fine and I like the IFS, so that's a big no-go I think, just nothing there to offer for what I intend to do with it. 4.56??? Maybe. But if I went D-max or 540 big block, I'd run an allison with a double overdrive which would be far better than the 4L80E with that short .75 OD gear.

[Flyin6]

I like the idea of the duraburb but don't undergear. 6BT in a square body is sweet too, but the Allison 1000 to that always seems to be an issue.

Duraburb, solid front axle (you still have one?) and 4.56 gears. With 35s I turn 1800@70. Best mileage is around 68 and thats 19mpg in a 8k truck with aggressive tires (yes it matters)

It really runs great like this, pulls hard and tows great (heavy too).

Look for a Duraburb that runs, slide that axle in there, move most of the gear to it form what you have and sell the gas hot rod.

JMHO

Yea, my tuned LML with 4.56 is ideal. It could work with a 4.10, but using 5th a lot and 4th around town, the 4.56 is really snappy. The truck feels very light although its far from it, but that is a result of the over 1,000 ft/lbs I am playing with with the tune, bigger turbo CP3, and everything else

[JR]

When I tow heavy, I use 5th gear. You have 37s and I have 35s.

[TexasRedNeck]

Don. I love you brother but you need an intervention.  You aren’t going to be happy with any gasser. You think mileage is bad now?  Drop an oversized BB Chevy in it and it will pull hard to the left every time you pass a gas station and still not be as torquey as you want.

Get a duraburb and be done with it. Buying one built will be less expensive than building it yourself.  Every part needed for the conversion is a stock part. There is nothing magical about it.

Rant off/


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[JR]

Its black, under 100k and not far;

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2007-Chevrolet-Suburban-2500-LT-4WD-3-4-Ton-Duramax/133463967703?hash=item1f131287d7:g:wOEAAOSwxxJefoh8

[Bigdave_185]

Damn JR is on fire with that duraburb.  That thing looks killer!! Dare ya to do it


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[Flyin6]

Fred, How could you in good conscience do that to me?

Unfair

(Darned cool lookin' burb!)

[JR]

Fred, How could you in good conscience do that to me?

Unfair

(Darned cool lookin' burb!)

Cause I love yah 

I mean, it just "LOOKS Don"

[Flyin6]

That it does

[Bigdave_185]

You already have the spare parts, why not


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[Flyin6]

I'm going to lock this topic so we can discuss the engine build in another thread

After much consideration, the only viable alternatives are either to leave ia all alone or to swap a duramax into the frame rails and end up with a much better all around vehicle. We will be discussing that in the new thread