militarized police

[Nate]

you people had better wake up and see just exactly what the last administration did!!!!

no police force in America has any need for military equipment......PEROID!!!!!

[wyorunner]

And yet most sheriffs departments have them! Does that one have an RPG type net on the side? You know what we had in Iraq and Afghanistan, the weird wire that was intended to detonate RPGs before hitting the hull... or so that’s what I thought they did.

[cj7ox]

And yet most sheriffs departments have them! Does that one have an RPG type net on the side? You know what we had in Iraq and Afghanistan, the weird wire that was intended to detonate RPGs before hitting the hull... or so that’s what I thought they did.

That looks to me like a vertical sheet of expanded metal. At the base, it looks like a flip down platform. My thinking is that is for a SWAT team to ride on the outside of the vehicle for rapid deployment. The expanded metal sheet is there to keep the "shooters" from falling into the tires and becoming mush. I could be wrong, though.

[Flyin6]

And yet most sheriffs departments have them! Does that one have an RPG type net on the side? You know what we had in Iraq and Afghanistan, the weird wire that was intended to detonate RPGs before hitting the hull... or so that’s what I thought they did.

That looks to me like a vertical sheet of expanded metal. At the base, it looks like a flip down platform. My thinking is that is for a SWAT team to ride on the outside of the vehicle for rapid deployment. The expanded metal sheet is there to keep the "shooters" from falling into the tires and becoming mush. I could be wrong, though.

I don't think so Sean.

I remember those MRAPS very well, and like T said, that looks like the steel wire or bar grid that adorned the outsides of the vehicles to detonate RPG's

Edit: Looking at it closely it does look more like expanded metal and that may well be used as a platform, folded down, but would also initiate detonation of a HEAT round (High Explosive anti-tank)

Now, I wonder why I didn't have that stuff all over my helicopter??? (Yikes!)

As for the police having Mraps, yea, I'm on the fence with that. I do not want to see a well armed military deployed within our borders other than the standing Army/DOD. On the other hand police officers are our on the scene warriors. The Obama administration allowed for the importation of terrorists right into our lands. There are certain questionable training camps which are patrolled by "Americans" carrying AK-47's. Oddly enough they look like hajiis and wear traditional Arab garb. Now I wouldn't mind the sheriff of that county having a few M1 Abrams tanks with a lot of flechette rounds.

Obama wanted a Waffen SS police force that was loyal to him. I'm sure the "Dreamers" on his staff pined for the day when in his third or forth term he dissolved the constitution and took over with that well equipped "Police" force.

When things are right, I want our police to be better armed and equipped than terrorist cells that may be living well (In minneapolis and Flint and Dearborn, maybe other places) And lets not forget the cartels who have purchased fighter planes, built submarines, and recruit some darned good ex-military folks to get their job done. I'd like to outgun those folks.

[cj7ox]

And there were so many MRAPs produced during OIF that became available for interagency purchase during the drawdown in Iraq, that LE agencies were gobbling them up. Hell, my local college PD even acquired several HMMWVs for peanuts. No need, but available due to overproduction. Do I agree with LE agencies needing MRAPs, no. But at least our tax dollars are being used, rather than flushed.

[Flyin6]

Bottom line for me, is even though it may appear like the police are becoming militarized, I vote for the cops. I wouldn't want to send soldiers into a fight without the right equipment. And the guy who determines what is needed to fight his particular fight is the commander. In the civilian context, that would be the Sheriff. We elect him so we need to trust his judgement. If he thinks he needs an Mrap, I am not really informed deep enough to intelligently question his judgement. I will choose the safety of our police officers over any uncomfortable feeling I have about the weapon systems they choose to use.

[stlaser]

Well, one thing for sure is this ^^^^^ along with no knock 3 am raids on incorrect homes isn’t helping their public relations any......

If they want to have weapons of war then I say let the state patrol have them using them in limited capacity. To me that would be a great trade off as you have double oversight of its use. Make the small town sheriff or county sheriffs plead their case. Most small towns do not need this equipment on a normal basis, more than one way to skin a cat as far as real police work.

[Flyin6]

Well, one thing for sure is this ^^^^^ along with no knock 3 am raids on incorrect homes isn’t helping their public relations any......

If they want to have weapons of war then I say let the state patrol have them using them in limited capacity. To me that would be a great trade off as you have double oversight of its use. Make the small town sheriff or county sheriffs plead their case. Most small towns do not need this equipment on a normal basis, more than one way to skin a cat as far as real police work.

Great topic and good discussion points, S

So here is why I say the Sheriff should have the authority. Its because he already does! The county Sheriff is the single constitutional enforcement authority in that area. Not the State police. Although they may seem like a better resourced, more standardized force, The Sheriff deputies derive their power directly from the constitution. He can overrule just about anybody.

For example our Sheriff here has openly stated he would not enforce any federal gun control or registration law. He sees such a law being in violation of the 2nd amendment. Therefore if the federal government would enact such a law, according to his interpretation of the constitution, it would not be be "Lawful."

We elect the Sheriff. We do not elect the State police leadership. They are all (political??) appointees of the governor.

I personally would want someone close by making the calls and not someone taking orders from who knows who at the state or federal levels...

[stlaser]

County Sheriff makes sense unless you don’t have a good county sheriff. Most I have known were good for the record.

On the other hand I’ve known more pos town chief of police than I knew good ones. Again why I think there needs to be more than one guy signing off on the use of this type of equipment and missions.

My personal interactions with local law enforcement have not been overly positive as of late and I used to donate my time with them at events etc promoting them. They changed chiefs and it has been a downward spiral last couple of years. This is unfortunate as with all things a couple bad apples or poor leadership in this case ruin it for all.

[KensAuto]

What's wrong Shawn, afraid your Jeep won't outrun a pig like an mrap?
Why are we worried about a defensive vehicle like an mrap? It's not an Abrams. Doesn't bother me one bit.
I think the fact that they can carry full autos, and we for the most part can't, is more worry some. ..and that doesn't bother me either.

[stlaser]

What's wrong Shawn, afraid your Jeep won't outrun a pig like an mrap?
Why are we worried about a defensive vehicle like an mrap? It's not an Abrams. Doesn't bother me one bit.
I think the fact that they can carry full autos, and we for the most part can't, is more worry some. ..and that doesn't bother me either.

Why would I be worried about that heavy pig? Recall Dorner manhunt? Not worried about full auto either. Many of those boys can’t hit broad side of a barn when they think lead is flying both ways


Thinking you see an H capable transportation when you look at em..... 

[TexasRedNeck]

I think that brings into play the need for civilians to provide a check to government power. We may need to up our weapons capabilities as a counterbalance


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Flyin6]

I think that brings into play the need for civilians to provide a check to government power. We may need to up our weapons capabilities as a counterbalance


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Concur
Responsible citizens with weapons are a great balance. Make the prospect of being invaded much darker for potential enemies.

Would the cartels be so emboldened if the ranchers along the Arizona border were a part of a local battle tank club???

[cj7ox]

... local battle tank club???

As a CDAT, I endorse this idea! Now, I need to win the powerball so I can afford a purchase of this magnitude. I've always wanted a tank, ever since the movie with James Garner in the '80s! 

[BobbyB]

afraid your Jeep won't outrun a pig like an mrap?

It probably could easily.

Not worried about full auto either. Many of those boys can’t hit broad side of a barn when they think lead is flying both ways

I had a response but I decided not to.

I've always wanted a tank, ever since the movie with James Garner in the '80s! 

Twas a great movie.

[Flyin6]

... local battle tank club???

As a CDAT, I endorse this idea! Now, I need to win the powerball so I can afford a purchase of this magnitude. I've always wanted a tank, ever since the movie with James Garner in the '80s! 

Man, me too!
I loved that M60A1/A3
I could work on it, tune the engine. With the governor control removed they could easily hit 40 mph
But
most importantly
I know all about how to fix the heaters!

[cj7ox]

I loved that M60A1/A3
I could work on it, tune the engine. With the governor control removed they could easily hit 40 mph
But
most importantly
I know all about how to fix the heaters!

The M1, ungoverned, will hit 90mph before the track pads start flying off. 

[TexasRedNeck]

Yeah but how does it handle at that speed??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Nate]

Smoothest ride you could imagine

[Flyin6]

I had my M-60A1 up to 42 on a german road for a distance. The steering was really touchy. I had the feeling we were going to launch off the road into the fields at any moment. And all the while, crazy Germans were passing and weaving in and out of our convoy

Thus the sport of guntube jousting remained a well practiced activity! ;-)

[JR]

We had them and I liked em. A good used APC and a Bear we got new.

Great for rescue and blockaded suspects.

Local city agencies had what were really armored up SUVs.

Gov planet has em all the time, they go fast!

[TexasRedNeck]

Looking at bulk brass buy from a govt liquidation brass.  Will have to buy enough to make the trip to AL worth while.

If I can pull it off I may have a bunch to sell off at my cost.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[JR]

308? Slugs to, they are getting up there also.

[TexasRedNeck]

Negative.  5.56 and maybe some 45acp


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[dave945]

Where at in AL?  I could tell my wife I’m taking the kids to see their cousins and fell into a deal on the brass and couldn’t pass it up. ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JR]

Is this demiled or once shot?

Never enough 556 brass and rounds are cheap.

[KensAuto]

Lol Dave. Just trying to help right?

[cj7ox]

Yeah but how does it handle at that speed??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've never got above 50mph, but I did that cross country, and it was smooth as glass. The suspension is amazing. Faster you go, the smoother the ride. Steering responds like a sportscar, if a sportscar could pivot steer. LOL!

[Nate]

With all of the good and maybe some misguided points, I still stand by my original comment of “NO police force regardless of who they are should have military equipment such as what is pictured”!

In my opinion, the national guard should be the only entity outside of the active/reserve duty forces of the federal military to have and operate/deploy such equipment.

I also believe that city police / sheriffs department / state police should be cross trained on such equipment to ASSIST if and when needed.

[JR]

Sorry Nate, I disagree.

[Nate]

Coming from you JR, i respect that 100%.

Please help me understand it from your experience

[JR]

You always respond a step above the threat. Active shooter or barricaded subject, street gang, how do you get close with some saftey?

People are pinned down, how do you get to them or a wounded person out?

You can't sit back 1/2 mile away and wait if someone is shooting, you have to deal with it. Now we can wait them out, common practice unless lives are at risk.

NG or miltary would need a special directive to allow use of local law enforcement the equip and Posse Comitatus comes to mind also. They could be hours away too.

We are not talking an armed vehicle, just protection. Even combat max and suburbans don't offer any ballistic protection.

All LEO want to go home at night, job one. If we get hurt, the problem gets worse.