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Offline Flyin6

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Composite basement wall panel
« on: November 20, 2016, 02:35:26 PM »
OK, I've been thinking again

No, no fires, smoke, or injuries just yet...

So everyone following the hide site thread knows that I excavated a "Keyhole" for a future underground utility/mechanical space.

The more I ask for someone to put in a concrete pad or block wall, the more I feel uneasy about actually getting anyone to do it.

First, no one answers their phone. Secondly, everyone working concrete has been to or is currently in jail. Finally everyone who bids the job thinks that they need to pad their retirement savings on this job alone.

Case in point: The last guy I asked to simply pour a 16' X 12' pad said he would do it for $550. No, that did not include any concrete, or any steel, or any forms, no, none of that! I was asked to provide all that. All he was going to do was to show up for the pour and I guess get me screeded, and smoothed! ...$550 for that! I asked him which brand campaign he wanted me to serve as well. He didn't get it!

OK, I can easily pour that pad, and I guess I'll have to since no one (who isn't incarcerated) wants to work. But onto the block wall, or poured wall, or whatever wall. I don't really like block walls. The farm house 100 feet away has a failing block basement wall, so that's reason enough not to build one. I don't really know how to lay up a block wall, and my experience in getting things square and level is, well, a bit lacking.

Block wall guys, are, well, let's just say they seem to be the concrete guy's first cousins.

So I am back to doing something myself...Which got me thinking

The neighbors house across the street from my WTB (way too big) primary residence has basement walls which were panels. Seems they were 2 X 6 with some panel on the exterior, a foam core, and perhaps some concrete mixed in just cause they could...

Then I got to messin' with this Formular rigid board stuff...And that got me to thinkin' a bit more.

What if, the Warrant Officer thinks...What if I invent a wall panel myself?

What if I framed up a 2 X 6 panels with a pressure treated 2 X 8 base plate? What if I covered that with the Formular followed by a sheet of 1/2" OSB to which I attached some chicken wire or lat, then troweled on a thin layer of cement mortar...? What if I did that? Wouldn't that be pretty sturdy? Wouldn't that serve as a ready made panel that I could throw up like a lego set, fastening each to the other? Then chase that with a good waterproof material rolled onto the outside, then provide for some really good base drainage.

Seems if I did all that, I just might have a ready made basement wall to which I could attach a roof and call it all good...seems to me...
« Last Edit: November 20, 2016, 02:50:18 PM by Flyin6 »
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Offline cudakidd53

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2016, 02:46:21 PM »
They already make a modular styrofoam form that snaps together like that wired together that they pour the concrete into and leave in place.  Saw it on This Old House few years ago
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2016, 02:52:25 PM »
They already make a modular styrofoam form that snaps together like that wired together that they pour the concrete into and leave in place.  Saw it on This Old House few years ago
A MSWF.

Never thought of that

But concrete cracks, which then leaks, something I was wanting to get away from

Work with me here...DBCBW! (Don built composite basement wall)
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Offline stlaser

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2016, 03:32:00 PM »
Concrete walls only leak because of poor drainage, not because of cracks.....
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Offline Sammconn

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2016, 03:33:38 PM »
They already make a modular styrofoam form that snaps together like that wired together that they pour the concrete into and leave in place.  Saw it on This Old House few years ago

Back at my wife's parents, a couple in town built their whole house out of these.
I think with the right concrete, some form of rubberized waterproofing membrane on outside you'd be GTG.

And what Shawn said.
I just don't want to wind up missing a digit or limb.  I can sometimes get in a hurry to get results.
Sam

Offline Flyin6

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2016, 03:33:57 PM »
Concrete walls only leak because of poor drainage, not because of cracks.....
Argumentative...

One demerit!
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2016, 03:34:37 PM »
They already make a modular styrofoam form that snaps together like that wired together that they pour the concrete into and leave in place.  Saw it on This Old House few years ago

Back at my wife's parents, a couple in town built their whole house out of these.
I think with the right concrete, some form of rubberized waterproofing membrane on outside you'd be GTG.

And what Shawn said.
No linky Senor'
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Offline stlaser

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2016, 03:36:46 PM »
More female logic today........
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2016, 03:42:06 PM »
OK, so I'm laying this panel out my head

I make the top and bottom plates from 2 X 8's which is 7 1/2 in. wide

Start with a sheet of 1/2" OSB, then attach those to standard 2 X 4's

That makes for a 7" deep cavity on one side and a flat OSB face on the other.

On top of the "Cavity" side, next insert the 2" Poly foam board

Lay another 1/2" OSB on top of that and you have a 1" recess remaining. Attach the lat or wire to the OSB and pour in a mortar mixture, then later on cover that with a good asphalt based sealant/coating.

Then get a convict to hold it in place for the price of a days liquor and bolt it all up...

I'll call this the base plan...
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2016, 03:42:29 PM »
More female logic today........
Another demerit...
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Offline stlaser

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2016, 03:54:48 PM »
& you think this is gunna outlast a concrete block wall? ???
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2016, 05:18:45 PM »
NUAWCW4

No use arguing with  a Chief Warrant Officer

He's going to do it anyway and learn the hard way. Didn't you read the book??


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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2016, 05:34:44 PM »
So everyone is saying this is a bad idea???

Am I gettin' that vibe?
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Offline Bob Smith

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2016, 05:49:30 PM »
They are just saying...

Offline stlaser

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2016, 05:50:31 PM »
"Reinventing the wheel" phrase comes to mind......

But by all means it's Kentucky so the very least it should fit in well! ;D
« Last Edit: November 20, 2016, 05:51:37 PM by stlaser »
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2016, 07:34:37 PM »
Don there is a reason and almost all basement construction nowadays is styrofoam form poured concrete. It works.


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Offline Sammconn

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2016, 07:47:20 PM »
Here is one variation.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FJB_9eVheqk

I didn't watch it at all so not sure what all is in it.
But there are likely a few varieties that all do the same.
I just don't want to wind up missing a digit or limb.  I can sometimes get in a hurry to get results.
Sam

Offline KensAuto

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2016, 09:24:15 AM »
So this thread should be called TACWALL?


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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2016, 11:37:11 AM »
So this thread should be called TACWALL?


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Offline BobbyB

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2016, 03:28:52 PM »
So this thread should be called TACWALL?


please don't fire me, please don't fire me

Thin ice...Thin ice...

He's just upset he didn't think of that name first.
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!
your standard grunt level CQB is just putting rounds and rounds on scary stuff till it stops scaring you!

Offline cudakidd53

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2016, 03:54:34 PM »
So this thread should be called TACWALL?


please don't fire me, please don't fire me

Thin ice...Thin ice...

He's just upset he didn't think of that name first.

OOOOhhh, it could have a cable system that raised and lowered the walls, and...........here one day, making interesting progress and then POOF, Pre-Rangers go all Grunt on it!

I miss the topper thread
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Offline Atkinsmatt

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2016, 06:08:12 PM »
I was thinking concealed storage.
Matt
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2016, 06:17:54 PM »
I know all you say all these things with a caring, loving, and thoughtful heart! :o
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Offline cudakidd53

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2016, 07:03:58 PM »
I know all you say all these things with a caring, loving, and thoughtful heart! :o

Thoughtful, and thankful for this site and all we learn from and share with each other.....and all the humor associated with those activities!
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2016, 09:45:35 PM »
I know all you say all these things with a caring, loving, and thoughtful heart! :o

Thoughtful, and thankful for this site and all we learn from and share with each other.....and all the humor associated with those activities!
So, are you fer or ah-gin' the composite tac-wall idea?
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Offline cudakidd53

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2016, 10:26:07 PM »
The pre-fab forms and pour would be great for your application- whether or not you can get the concrete truck, pump etc. to show up is the biggest question.  Better than a block wall for sure!
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2016, 11:35:37 AM »
The pre-fab forms and pour would be great for your application- whether or not you can get the concrete truck, pump etc. to show up is the biggest question.  Better than a block wall for sure!
Mike, you drove that road...You know the deal

I've already had one truck blow out a tire on the ride in. He told me there was no way a concrete guy would drive back in there

Two things I learned right there

1. I'm mixin my own crete

2. I picked a pretty good spot!

Wait till you see it next time...You won't recognize it!

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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2016, 11:38:34 AM »
Oh, and a guy owes me a pretty sizeable chunk of change...Actually a couple guyses. If I get that, I'll be addin "Chief"

Right now I like the Cat 318 or 320. A Case 160 up to a 200. A Kobelco 210, or similar sized in the 16-20 ish size. All with a thumb, of course...
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Offline stlaser

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2016, 01:39:16 PM »
My experience the Crete drivers were more adventurous than the tri axle dump guys. We had many Crete trucks that we winched back out.....
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Offline cudakidd53

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2016, 06:34:50 PM »
The pre-fab forms and pour would be great for your application- whether or not you can get the concrete truck, pump etc. to show up is the biggest question.  Better than a block wall for sure!
Mike, you drove that road...You know the deal

I've already had one truck blow out a tire on the ride in. He told me there was no way a concrete guy would drive back in there

Two things I learned right there

1. I'm mixin my own crete

2. I picked a pretty good spot!

Wait till you see it next time...You won't recognize it!

Sarge vs Trees: No competition!

I only tore a corner of the trailer steps loose - couple of pop rivets and back in service!  Sarge could move a rock or two and concrete trucks could get in and out!  Of course they'll charge extra for increased drive time in and out of the farm.
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Offline Bob Smith

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2016, 07:17:59 PM »
If you mix it yourself, you still need the sand and gravel delivered. Height would be more for the mixer truck but about the same footprint as the dump truck.

Offline stlaser

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2016, 09:27:00 PM »
I wouldn't be mixing my own wall Crete but that's just me, flat work I would w/o hesitation. I've poured too many walls. A lot of variables in strength to consider.
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2016, 09:56:44 PM »
Ive been looking at PTO driven 8cf three point mixers.  Something to consider Don.  You'd need help mixing and pouring to make sure you have wet on wet.  That's a little less than a 1/3 of a cu yard per batch and about 14 80lb sacks
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2016, 10:01:38 PM »
A 6 inch wall form, 8ft tall, 8 ft wide is 32cu ft of mix, or 4 loads in a 8cu ft mixer.

FWIW
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #34 on: November 24, 2016, 10:05:08 AM »
This is gonna drive me nutz!
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Offline cudakidd53

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2016, 10:42:28 AM »
This is gonna drive me nutz!

You could have premixed hauled to the entrance gate, and off load into smaller trailers which then haul in to the building site?
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Offline stlaser

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2016, 10:55:40 AM »
& the block wall takes the lead!!!! ;D
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #37 on: November 24, 2016, 10:58:03 AM »
This is gonna drive me nutz!

You could have premixed hauled to the entrance gate, and off load into smaller trailers which then haul in to the building site?
I think the least painful thing to do is for me to form it up, then get a concrete truck to haul the mix in and me work the pad.

Then hire a guy which will take some doing...But hire the best block guy around. Have him build the wall with rebar in the wall, then wen finished, pour the cavities of the block solid.

It's just going to have to happen that way me thinks if I ever want to get this to some more advanced self sufficient state
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Offline stlaser

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #38 on: November 24, 2016, 11:17:42 AM »
Now that sounds like a reasonable plan, my FIL in TN filled their block with Crete & rebar. It's pretty good that way Don.
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #39 on: November 24, 2016, 11:49:40 AM »
Now that sounds like a reasonable plan, my FIL in TN filled their block with Crete & rebar. It's pretty good that way Don.
Yea, have to concur.

Proven, makes sense and likely the path of least resistance.
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Offline JR

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #40 on: November 26, 2016, 03:25:19 PM »
Tac wall is a go.

But they are right, all concrete cracks. Cracks WILL leak. If water is an issue in anyway, outer drain barrier with weepage base.

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Offline Bob Smith

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #41 on: November 26, 2016, 05:44:59 PM »
JR is right on here. Whatever you end up building the basement with, even if you don't think water could be a problem seal it up good on the outside, backfill with drain rock, and at the base provide drainage to daylight or a sump with an auto switch pump. A lot easier to do when opened up new than after you  have a water problem.

Offline Flyin6

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #42 on: November 26, 2016, 08:03:44 PM »
This isn't exactly a basement. Just a notch I carved out of the hillside. One side is completely open. Any water than might seep in, can feel free to run right out the door!
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Offline Nate

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2016, 12:29:50 PM »
so are you saying that the big concrete lego type blocks that kyle used for his retaining wall and that bob was telling us about are out of the question?
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Offline JR

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #44 on: November 27, 2016, 01:51:12 PM »
I would still add a drain while its dug out. Why not keep it dry and if you expand you are covered.
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Offline Dawg25385

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #45 on: November 28, 2016, 09:57:45 AM »
so are you saying that the big concrete lego type blocks that kyle used for his retaining wall and that bob was telling us about are out of the question?

Transportation would be the killer there... and they're 2' thick, prob overkill for Big D's application


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Offline BobbyB

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #46 on: November 28, 2016, 05:38:47 PM »

Transportation would be the killer there... and they're 2' thick, prob overkill for Big D's application


No such thing.
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!
your standard grunt level CQB is just putting rounds and rounds on scary stuff till it stops scaring you!

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #47 on: December 01, 2016, 10:26:24 PM »
Got access to any cross ties or power poles?  You could sink those very close together and sheet the exterior and damp proof the outside and backfill.
Matt
16 GMC Denali 2500 HD

Offline Flyin6

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #48 on: December 02, 2016, 10:03:04 AM »
Got access to any cross ties or power poles?  You could sink those very close together and sheet the exterior and damp proof the outside and backfill.
No, no good sources for those around here...
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Offline Atkinsmatt

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Re: Composite basement wall panel
« Reply #49 on: December 02, 2016, 01:30:52 PM »
Cedar logs?
Matt
16 GMC Denali 2500 HD

 

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