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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Back to School!
« Reply #50 on: August 13, 2015, 09:58:57 AM »

The more we get over educated kids with no work ethic to the more the basics become the basis for the cut.

I hire highly compensted employees and I could care less about advanced degrees that their parents paid good money for to spend 8-10 years in college only to graduate and have zero common sense (street smarts)

I look for competitive sports, military service, employment history (no gaps and more than a year or two with each company), and I've gotten good at vetting out the embellishments in the resume. 

I want someone who has realistic expectations: They must outwork the people around them and bust their hump if they are to get ahead.  Manners, work ethics, and street smarts, and a good attitude mean much more to me than some sheepskin.

Herb Kelleher, SW Airlines said.  Give me someone with a great attitude and I can train them to do anything.

So you never hire anybody with an advanced degree? That's a shame, there's lots of us out there that work our asses off :/

I learned a ton in my masters program, and paid my sheepskin myself. No regrets whatsoever.


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I think RN is saying he does not weigh it as heavily as the candidate or others would wish, that he looks for a balance with the preponderance of his decision going to other factors...Did I get that right???

I was in the same position, hiring guys into 200 and 300K jobs. I looked for experience above everything else, and time spent doing what I was looking for. Then I considered (for pilots) if they were instructors and had their AEIOU ratings...
The most important factor, I learned to look for was, could I lock this guy inside a closet with another guy for 30 days and still get a job done and have no fatalities at the end
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Re: Back to School!
« Reply #51 on: August 13, 2015, 11:33:29 AM »
I think it's a person to person basis in any interview process. I have a job opening right now..because we have so many irrigation wells and ponds we employ a water conservation "expert" if at all possible. It's to our advantage to have a person with credentials as a buffer between us and the State. The above said, the last fella I took a look at had a impressive educational background. He seemed to have a decent work ethic as well which was attractive...but at the end of our interview he asked me if he had to drive a 4x4. When I said yes it's pretty much a requirement, that and a ATV he got nervous and said he had no training on either one.

I then mentioned I was not in the habit to extend training on such equipment much past handing him the keys... he said he wasn't sure he wanted the job. When i asked why he said he wasn't comfortable learning on his own....

My new add may in the future read: If you can read and count, and drive a 4x4 please apply... I will work out the rest latter.




Online Bob Smith

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Re: Back to School!
« Reply #52 on: August 13, 2015, 12:12:20 PM »
I think it's a person to person basis in any interview process. I have a job opening right now..because we have so many irrigation wells and ponds we employ a water conservation "expert" if at all possible. It's to our advantage to have a person with credentials as a buffer between us and the State. The above said, the last fella I took a look at had a impressive educational background. He seemed to have a decent work ethic as well which was attractive...but at the end of our interview he asked me if he had to drive a 4x4. When I said yes it's pretty much a requirement, that and a ATV he got nervous and said he had no training on either one.

I then mentioned I was not in the habit to extend training on such equipment much past handing him the keys... he said he wasn't sure he wanted the job. When i asked why he said he wasn't comfortable learning on his own....

My new add may in the future read: If you can read and count, and drive a 4x4 please apply... I will work out the rest latter.

Could have been he didn't want to get dirty and 4X4 use usually means mud. Sorry Don I forgot you also have a 4X4. I guess they don't all see the mud.

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Back to School!
« Reply #53 on: August 13, 2015, 04:38:07 PM »
Don you are on track. I don't discriminate against advanced degrees. Especially if they worked their way through itpaid for it themselves. I'm saying that I'm not overly impressed with titles and initials.  Problem solving and work ethic and attitude are very important. 

I have MBAs and actuaries that work for me but I have people without degrees too. All very good and very highly compensated. 

There was a study recently that said the same.  People that had their education paid for made bad hires on the whole


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Offline Nate

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Re: Back to School!
« Reply #54 on: August 13, 2015, 04:46:35 PM »
going thru my transition classes right now, the only thing they are talking about is everything is online and these programs look for key words.  they had a figure that said something like 1 resume out of toughly 1500 gets thru the system before it even gets real eyes put on it.
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Back to School!
« Reply #55 on: August 13, 2015, 10:24:19 PM »
Very true Nate. Most of my hires are not from sifted resumes. They are from networking and referrals. Making a connection via LinkedIn or some other way is important.


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Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Offline Dawg25385

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Re: Back to School!
« Reply #56 on: August 13, 2015, 10:33:56 PM »
Very true Nate. Most of my hires are not from sifted resumes. They are from networking and referrals. Making a connection via LinkedIn or some other way is important.

Yup. Works the other way too.

Me:"Hey, so-and-so worked at the same firm as you, he's applying for a job with me and I can't decided whether to bring him in for an interview or not. Give me the skinny on this guy".
Buddy: "That guy's a total gomer. Man this one time, ____."
Me: NEXT

LinkedIn has become a very effective means of networking, and vetting. I'm pretty particular about who i'm "LinkedIn" with. Certainly personal networking and referrals are big too.
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Offline cruizng

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Re: Back to School!
« Reply #57 on: August 14, 2015, 09:48:50 AM »
I will chime in here as well.

I have been hiring and firing for the past 30+ years. First in construction and trucking then starting in 1993 in the Information Systems world.

As I have told my kids "it's good to have options"! When I was in High School I wanted to be an Architect. Being ignorant as to how that happens I only applied to two colleges and was only accepted to one. The one I didn't necessarily want but it is where my bigger brother went. Good school so I try to slam in all the STEM credits I could and was overwhelmed with the amount of work it takes to handle Chemistry, Calculus, Biology, New Testament, etc... all in one semester. SO long story short I bailed out of college after one year and went to build water towers for Pittsburgh Des Moines Steel all over the Midwest.

Then I got into Transportation (Trucking) and Logistics (Brokers) and haven't looked back. By 1993 I switched over to the Information Systems side of the world and became VP of IS with no college degree of any kind. I have been a CIO or something similar since.

I can say over the years that I have been denied consideration for top I.S. jobs because I haven't had a degree. Any degree. I would get a call from a recruiter and they would be all interested in me due to my background and would even get to the interview stage. Then someone in HR or whatever would finally read my resume and ask the question. Do you have a degree? I would say no and they would tell me that I wasn't a viable candidate any longer. This happened many times. They couldn't believe I got where I was without a degree most of the time. It was basically a filter to take the applicants from 300 down to a manageable interview group. And hey! we can't discriminate! :)

I got to where I was and am now by working harder than my peers. It was at time a sacrifice of relationships and personal life but it worked. I was one of the few that was ready to move any where in the country for the next better job. I normally spent 8 to 10 years in each location.

So the point of all of this is that if you can afford to get a degree then by all means do it. It gives you more options! If you can get your Masters then do it! It gives you more options! I tell my kids all the time you want options in life and then make great decisions. They don't always have to be right but learn from them. If you have a great idea and can start your own company do it! Also try to do it before you have family and kids because your priorities change after that.

I agree that LinkedIn is a very valuable resource for job seekers and employers. You basically have your resume on the web for everyone to see but if you expand on your profile with actual projects, wins, accomplishments, referrals, recommendations, etc... that what recruiters and HR personnel are looking for.

When I have my HR department post a position I tend to cast a generic wide net for applicants to respond. Some of my best hires in I.T. have been people without degree's but they had "wanna". They wanted to learn. They wanted to explore. They wanted to do the very best job possible and they didn't care if they were a 9am to 5pm'er. When I look at resumes if they are a job hopper (a new job every year or two for several years) I will automatically can them. I want commitment. In I.T. the average length of employment at a company in less than three years. So I want to find those that have bucked that trend. It is becoming harder with the younger Millennials coming up but not impossible. I want people with wanna. I also try to give priority to Arm Services personnel. I work around Guard Duty and stuff like that but it is the least we can do.

I also need to hire a lot of specific talent. Engineers, Programmers, Technicians, etc... I always look for a balance of education, certificates, and hands on experience with similar technologies and scope of systems. I have seen engineers that had tons of certificates and education but couldn't set up a real world network. I have also had all experience individuals that could set something up and it worked but couldn't be supported because they followed no industry standards. So it is nice to have a little of both.

My daughter entered the work force a year or two back and I told her a couple of things. Always communicate! Always be early for the shift! Always volunteer! Always work harder than anyone else! Always ask what more you can do to help out! She seems to be doing very well with the two jobs she has. Options!

As RN and others state, one of the best things you can have are great references. People you have worked with that will attest to all of the above. The best hires are referrals. Our company pays referral bonuses for specific positions like drivers and mechanics. So back to the LinkedIn thing, you can have people post referrals on your profile that explains the job or project and how you made it better. That works very well.

I have looked a 1000's of resumes and would also be happy to review any that you would want to send my way. Sadly with the really large companies, like Nate said, they do use key word filters and other software tools to filter out applications.

One final word of advice (this was a lot of chiming in...sorry) it is always easier to find a better job when you have a job. Any job. For some reason across the spectrum if you are not working they tend to slide over you in favor of someone that is currently working.

DOT out! Hope this helps!
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 10:36:32 AM by cruizng »
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