2008 Jeep Jk 4 Door

[Armalite]

Glad to finally see some progress out of you!  I like the looks of that new motor!  That dark purple makes it look fast....  Fits your style as well...  :-X

You should have just hollered if you needed help.  I'm only a few hours from you now! 

[stlaser]

Yeah, just for the record smart a** commentary is considered any help I need..... ;)

[Armalite]

You know you're going to get the commentary regardless.  Might as well make use of my dumb mind, weak back, and slow hands while you're at it....  ::)

[stlaser]

You know you're going to get the commentary regardless.  Might as well make use of my dumb mind, weak back, and slow hands while you're at it....  ::)

Was there a positive in you coming to help? I don't think I read any in that above offer......

[Armalite]

Sure, the commentary....  ;D

[stlaser]

Sure, the commentary....  ;D

I get that daily from you in text message. Getting forgetful in your old age, birthday coming up shortly I might add. Male midget strippers this time?

[TexasRedNeck]

Ash you arent in E Tex any more?

[stlaser]

Ash you arent in E Tex any more?

I'll reply because who knows when next Ash will get on here to answer.

H&A is a multi state operation and currently they are working a large job in NM. He still owns his "mansion & estate" (inside joke) near Carthage TX & H&A corporate offices are still in Logansport La.

[stlaser]

Suggestion, a new crank bolt is advised. Installing crank back on motor. About the first inch of said bolt snapped off & I can see it after pulling harmonic balancer back off the front side of it is up in crank about an 3/4" deep...... good day just went to crap.
















But once again in a former life I dealt with steel. That sucky bolt musta been grade 2 Chinese crap because I was able to drill out center like butter. Punch in an American made screw extractor & remove said junk. Praise Jesus!!!!

[JR]

That'll slow you down for a few, but sure leaves some opens up some prime commentary,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[TexasRedNeck]

That will make you cranky....

[stlaser]

That will make you cranky....

First, I have plenty of pics but phone is acting up & wife unit took laptop so those will have to wait.

So started day assembling motor & cleaning parts with simple green to re install. Was going good right until the crank bolt for harmonic balancer decide to break off. In reality it only took about 15 mins to get it out. So wasn't too big of a deal but by then it was lunch time & parts grocery list was accumulating along with needing new crank bolt.

Part of the grocery list was new fly wheel bolts. The stock ones were T-50 head & well I sacrificed a good T-50 socket on one the other day. So after welding a chunk of steel to said bolt I decided that a couple others should be replaced as well. Jeep wanted $4.50 ea & 3-5 days..... So I went to fastenal and in true fashion they didn't have them in stock. For reference they are a 10mm x 1.00 pitch (super fine thread which no one stocks) x 30mm long. But another location east of Denver did have a single partial bag so off I went. Picked up parts & lunch all is good.

Come home & go to install harmonic balancer, I end up spinning motor which confirms plastic stocker valve covers are in fact hitting roller rockers. They did seem a bit snug, so I call up 505. After 5 calls a guy answers and I tell him what's going on. He says oh yeah you need to take a screw driver and bust out some upper inner plastic piece. My response, you guys didn't think this was useful info to send with motor? So I take covers off & break out what is essentially I believe an upper baffle. Didn't really appear to be of any structural value & it came right out.

After that it was on to wire wheeling frame & laying on a coat of undercoat. That nice fedex guy showed up & I finished assembly of the front side of the motor. New water pump, tension & idle pulley. Worth noting I also installed new egr valve. Mine would throw a code anytime in the morning it was under 60 degrees. Assume it's old and getting gummed up, started last spring and nothing all summer until now. Again, out with old in with the new....

So by this time after running kids for school I'm beat and hooking up various wires on motor. I also put new plastic wire covering on anything that was starting to rot & fall apart to tidy it up. So last thing I try to do is hook the throttle body connector back up. For whatever reason it's super tight & fighting me. I finally get it to where it should snap on and a tab on top side breaks off. So I run to napa & guys there can't seem to find a replacement. So I come home and search the web, seems this is an issue with the top tab breaking off. Everyone I see is just zip tying them. Napa guys think this is a Jeep only part and saw one post where a guy was able to get the connector from an old harness & use some pin removal tool to swap it out. If jeep makes me buy whole harness I will probably just zip tie it & wait to replace until supercharger install. If I have to replace it means pulling upper intake, not a hard job with motor in jeep.

I also wire wheeled and painted up oil dip stick, Don will be happy I painted a couple somethings.....

So plan is still moving forward & with any luck I'll get motor back resting in Jeep tomorrow. Need to replace throw out bearing with timken bearing and install timken pilot bearing in the fly wheel I had surfaced. Napa guys charged me $30 & took off .025 it probably didn't need it but I thought it was good insurance.

[stlaser]

Couple teasers

https://imgur.com/a/6PlSF

[stlaser]

Picture dump & fine details coming tomorrow late.

Motor is in Jeep bolted to transmission & resting on its own motor mounts.

Ken, fly wheel did not have symmetrical bolt pattern. It only went on one way & I didn't break anything today either...... ;)

[TexasRedNeck]

you are making hay there, hippy.  (I beat Ken to it)

[Flyin6]

I'm happy to hear you painted a few things! :-)

[stlaser]

Update, pretty disappointed. Motor is & runs well, did initial half hour break in to realize the rear main seal is leaking. Gunna try to get jeep on rack local & get transmission pulled (seems much easier than pulling motor again). Have call & email in to 505, we'll see what they say. Final payment was made via PayPal. So I think I have some leverage. May pull inspection cover to clutch & see if I can see more tomorrow. In meantime I'm spending time with wife, will get install pics etc update shortly.

[JR]

To bad about the seal. All that $$ and the seal leaks? If a one peice I bet it was put in dry.

 I think you have 160 days on PP.

[stlaser]

505 responded to email, rear main seal never leaks was his reply. Wanted to know if I sealed lower intake with gasket sealer front & rear & also flywheel bolts which I did.

[Nate]

505 must think they are dealing with a rookie...........

[stlaser]

Nate, first & foremost everyone makes mistakes. It happens, my guess was rear main seal w/o pulling inspection cover. Not saying I might not be at fault too. I'm tired, honestly being on a time frame etc to get this back on the road had me stressed all week.

I'm in decent shape but swapping motors like this is really a two man job. I made due & still utilized my 14 year olds smaller diameter arms a couple times to get bolts started in tight spots. Other times I used ratchet straps to pull etc when an extra set of knowledgeable hands would have been great not to mention another pair of eyes.

Anyhow I'm sore & tired so pulling the transmission is going to be done by a guy down the street with a real lift. I can do it on the ground & have plenty of times but stuff that should have gotten done last week cannot wait until week after this coming & I need my Jeep. WR450 will work for week or so in the mean time.

In the meantime the facts are this, the motor runs (sounds good too) but is bleeding for some reason.

[TexasRedNeck]

Sorry to hear Shawn. Frustrating for sure


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[BobbyB]

Can't you get to the RMS by removing the oil pan? I know you can do it on my 4.0, which I probably should do. Every place around here is all " you gotta pull the motor..."

It's easier to remove the axle (which I don't want to do), drop the oil pan, un bolt stuff, replace the 2 piece seal, then reverse process.. Maybe before winter.. Maybe.

[stlaser]

Can't you get to the RMS by removing the oil pan? I know you can do it on my 4.0, which I probably should do. Every place around here is all " you gotta pull the motor..."

It's easier to remove the axle (which I don't want to do), drop the oil pan, un bolt stuff, replace the 2 piece seal, then reverse process.. Maybe before winter.. Maybe.

Yours is the older common 2 piece style and yes you are correct on those motors. Mine is the newer mo better (supposedly) 1 piece rear main. You have to pull motor or trans/t-case and the trans/t-case is a 7 hour (by the book job) so a shop knowing what they are doing should be able to do it in 5 or less with equipment and make money on 7 hours of labor. If I still had my old shop lift and equipment (local friends to help) I would have it done already..........

[BobbyB]

Yours is the older common 2 piece style and yes you are correct on those motors. Mine is the newer mo better (supposedly) 1 piece rear main. You have to pull motor or trans/t-case and the trans/t-case is a 7 hour (by the book job) so a shop knowing what they are doing should be able to do it in 5 or less with equipment and make money on 7 hours of labor. If I still had my old shop lift and equipment (local friends to help) I would have it done already..........

Well that sucks.  :-[

[stlaser]

Yours is the older common 2 piece style and yes you are correct on those motors. Mine is the newer mo better (supposedly) 1 piece rear main. You have to pull motor or trans/t-case and the trans/t-case is a 7 hour (by the book job) so a shop knowing what they are doing should be able to do it in 5 or less with equipment and make money on 7 hours of labor. If I still had my old shop lift and equipment (local friends to help) I would have it done already..........

Well that sucks.  :-[

Honestly, to you and TRN who sent their condolences I hope the new $400 clutch and pressure plate doesn't have oil all over it and it's just an easy seal fix. While I was doing the half hour break in I never pushed in the clutch. We'll see I guess.....

[JR]

If it is the rear seal it is on them. You really can't hurt those unless you try.

You put on the intake with the motor out, should be a no brainer, but we all make mistakes.

If you can verify the rear main and 505 doesn't step up fast, let paypal do its thing. That will get their attention.

[stlaser]

If it is the rear seal it is on them. You really can't hurt those unless you try.

You put on the intake with the motor out, should be a no brainer, but we all make mistakes.

If you can verify the rear main and 505 doesn't step up fast, let paypal do its thing. That will get their attention.

I installed the intake correctly, used gasket maker on the two spots front & rear of intake per the JK install manual. Torqued it in per correct pattern & ft #. 505 supplied gaskets so they should be of good quality.

Next we go to the second part of his response. He asked if I sealed the fly wheel bolts? I did with med thread sealer. Here's the thing on that, per the manual they don't need any sealer. So did he machine the crank so that those 8 holes on back of crank now somehow enter into the oil pan sump area? If so then what sealer was I really supposed to use? If he did then its kinda like those valve covers & he should have told me it would have been a possible issue regardless. When you build and modify things it is on you to communicate to all parties how those modifications will impact the project. Project management 101 there.....

The other thing that gives me some concern is that he has a disclaimer on his site that states if I pay him (rather than receive a $400 credit) to install oil pan, timing cover & rear seal they are not liable if they leak because they cannot bring motor up to operating temperature to check. So one must ask why I'm paying $400 if he doesn't have to be concerned in how it's installed? Secondly it could be stated if they never leak why is it on their site in regards to the 3.8L motor builds? It was or has been an issue at some point to someone.

Again facts are this, I could have screwed up installing the intake. I might have installed it per the book & it still leaks, things happen. Still wondering what is up with sealing fly wheel bolts? Can't find any reference to those needing to be sealed anywhere. (Ken if you're reading, any thoughts?) Then again it may be the rear main seal that never leaks.

I decided to take today off and will inspect further Monday morning. Will pull trans inspection cover & see what there is to see along with trying to see / feel behind lower intake up top for oil. I'll go from there then.......

I did update some past posts with more pictures last night to those interested. Imgur wasn't too helpful though & I have more to add yet.

[KensAuto]

Some cranks have open holes in the crank, but can't tell you if that's the case on a 3.8. Even if they are, and even without any type of sealant, they wouldn't leak ....but might seep over time.

Possibly cam plug, galley plugs, oil pan upper or lower, intake, or rear main/housing. No way to know without eyes on. A mirror should work for the rear intake....then If you can see anything with the flywheel cover off, invest in some oil dye, clean the heck out of it with brake cleaner, and check with a black light while someone starts it up with you under it (in case it's a fast leak). If it's a leak that "scatters" or slings everywhere, you'll have a tough time determining which place it is once the trans is out and it can't be ran.

I found this pic, and it seems to show 2 galley plugs above the bellhousing area, and one below the cam. if you see a puddle in the rear, by the intake, it may also be one of those plugs (if in fact they are plugs)

[stlaser]

Ken, after 1/2 hour break in it was a 12" diameter circle of oil on shop floor. I'd call that more then seeping. I'll again look and try to verify source but the drip is coming from the bottom vents on the clutch inspection plate so it may be throwing it everywhere. Only other thing I thought of & hoping that sheet metal plate behind fly wheel is keeping oil off the clutch. With that said with that plate in there the oil could be starting up high & running right down it.

Also I think oil pan is ok as I can see that completely & looks solid.

Thanks for the input.

Ken this pic confirms the galley plugs & you can see the gasket maker material under the lower intake at each side.

New clutch
https://imgur.com/gallery/0BUI9

[KensAuto]

12" puddle? sounds like a pressure leak for sure...galleys, cam, or crank

[stlaser]

12" puddle? sounds like a pressure leak for sure...galleys, cam, or crank

Maybe it was 10" but something like that, definitely not a 1" or 2" puddle. Coming out from inspection cover at good constant drip. I started it and looked for initial leaks for first couple min, saw nothing then jumped in seat & kept the idle between 800 & 1500 for another 25 min. So no not a seep imo either too much oil for that.

[Flyin6]

Yours is the older common 2 piece style and yes you are correct on those motors. Mine is the newer mo better (supposedly) 1 piece rear main. You have to pull motor or trans/t-case and the trans/t-case is a 7 hour (by the book job) so a shop knowing what they are doing should be able to do it in 5 or less with equipment and make money on 7 hours of labor. If I still had my old shop lift and equipment (local friends to help) I would have it done already..........

Well that sucks.  :-[

Honestly, to you and TRN who sent their condolences I hope the new $400 clutch and pressure plate doesn't have oil all over it and it's just an easy seal fix. While I was doing the half hour break in I never pushed in the clutch. We'll see I guess.....

Brake cleaner is your friend
Should clear out any oil residue

[stlaser]

Yours is the older common 2 piece style and yes you are correct on those motors. Mine is the newer mo better (supposedly) 1 piece rear main. You have to pull motor or trans/t-case and the trans/t-case is a 7 hour (by the book job) so a shop knowing what they are doing should be able to do it in 5 or less with equipment and make money on 7 hours of labor. If I still had my old shop lift and equipment (local friends to help) I would have it done already..........

Well that sucks.  :-[

Honestly, to you and TRN who sent their condolences I hope the new $400 clutch and pressure plate doesn't have oil all over it and it's just an easy seal fix. While I was doing the half hour break in I never pushed in the clutch. We'll see I guess.....

Brake cleaner is your friend
Should clear out any oil residue

Copy, clutch is only $100 so worst case I guess.....

[JR]

What if they put in the wrong seal or installed backwards?

[stlaser]

What if they put in the wrong seal or installed backwards?

Should know more in morning, wife gave me old compact with mirror so I can do my face foundation & inspect for top side rear oil leaks. The seal is custom made by them I believe as it is 3/8" thick so I guess anything is a possibility but seems odd to be put in backwards or wrong altogether. I think putting it in dry would be more likely. Again maybe it's my fault somehow, according to Ken doesn't sound like it but you never know....

[stlaser]

Good news / bad news

Good, don't think my intake is leaking. Couldn't get mirror back in there (too big & no angle) but felt back in there & it's not wet, fingers came out dry nothing on them. Pulled cover & as Ken alluded to can't see much. Crank side of fly wheel is dry so that seems to indicate it's not crank. Oil didn't appear to be splashing everywhere another plus.

Bad, think they need to dye oil & probably pull trans......

[KensAuto]

Custom rear main seal? I must've missed that somewhere.  Hmm

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[stlaser]

Not much info on it


http://www.shop.505performance.com/product.sc?productId=353&categoryId=49

The Jeep goes on rack in shop Weds, started day after inspection of jeep by riding my bike mile down the road. The slow leak on the rear tire decide to give up the ghost after jumping a curb. Walked it back and grabbed wr450 it made the trip just fine. So now I have bike tire strapped to rear of WR450 and at lunch going to get it changed out......

[KensAuto]

85 bucks. wth.

[JR]

90,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[TexasRedNeck]

Well hell. Where in the wide world of sports is it a comin from if the flywheel is not wet?


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[stlaser]

Well hell. Where in the wide world of sports is it a comin from if the flywheel is not wet?


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The sheet metal plate behind the fly wheel had oil on it, but it doesn't seem to be slinging around. So it may be starting high (thinking cam hole or gallery plugs, maybe it's coming from fly wheel bolts). Not sure can't see much, they will pull transmission is my guess. They have the right equipment & it will go quick. My blood pressure will stay in a normal range & I'll get work done I'm paid to do.

On another note talking with wife yesterday, oldest Daughter / other daughters would love to have this to drive in HS. That's coming in another year for oldest. I may get this solid (hopefully) with this motor & pass on supercharger. Do the exhaust I have & drive it for a year. I'll buy a pickup or whatever & go that route (missing my trucks). Still have lighting & rear gas can / tire carrier to build as well. Keep tires at 33" & call it a day.

[JR]

That would make sense with the plugs back there. They look half covered by the bell and with that 12 in puddle it is not small.

[stlaser]

Update:

So my local shop called this morning. Jeep is currently on the rack & they are pulling transmission as we speak. Steve (the owner of local shop) was fully informed of everything that had taken place prior to jeep coming to him. He did a full inspection of entire vehicle also noting my brakes will need changed shortly, what can I say he's thorough.

After inspecting it Steve, the professional is stating it is in fact the rear main seal leaking. He's positive enough he's ordering a new seal. Time will tell I guess but kinda goes along with what Ken already stated & you know how much I hate saying he's right!

[EL TATE]

ugh, gut punch.

[TexasRedNeck]

In kens case even the blind squirrel finds a nut ever once in a while....

Shots fired!


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[stlaser]

Easy...... Kens had a rough week with his GF's knucklehead vice presidente flopping on national tv in all...... ;)

[stlaser]

ugh, gut punch.

Actually, when I fired it up sat & it was leaking it was a gut punch. Today, hearing its rear main seal i.e. not my fault was a bit of a relief honestly. It's sucked not having a proper vehicle all week but it isn't life or death either.

[JR]

So a motor you spent mucho $$$ on has a bad rear seal that won't be warrantied because of an oil pan install?

Is he putting an over the counter seal on, vs the "custom" that you were told it has?