Post by: Flyin6 on August 09, 2019, 04:34:42 PM
After some time over at a local garage it is back in my possession.
Due to a calamity of events the truck was gone for quite some time. I drove it over because of an aggressive leak between the transmission and the transfer case, and to get the AC working
The leak was repaired on day one with a new seal. I guess I must have buggered up the fresh one I installed when I installed the rub kit in the transfer case.
The AC would not blow any cold air so it made sense to get that looked at. The AC system was recharged bringing it up to spec, but then they noticed the cooling fan for the engine, and the AC cooling fan was not working properly. That began an almost two month long journey that had us calling BlackBear Performance, the guy who sold the electric fan conversion, and other automotive electrical engineering types. At the end of that journey, I have an AC system which can easily double as a refrigeration unit, the main engine cooling fan and a malfunctioning AC fan.
After everything I think the fix is as simple as getting Justin at BlackBear Performance to simply turn on the fan control in the next flash of this trucks ECM.
That being said, I am now at the point where I need to drive it to record some engine data so that I can send that off to justin to complete this, the second step of engine tuning. Following the installation of that tune, I should have a full up vehicle ready to use as a daily or an adventure vehicle.
So without further adieu, I'm off to record some data.
Post by: swbhobie16 on August 09, 2019, 04:39:13 PM
so..
lots of skinny pedal and very late and minimal braking!
can’t wait to see what this sucker makes after a couple hundred miles of drive data to retune off of
Post by: Flyin6 on August 09, 2019, 06:31:50 PM
make sure your driving is a regular as possible.Well, a funny thing happened on the way to the tuner
so..
lots of skinny pedal and very late and minimal braking!
can’t wait to see what this sucker makes after a couple hundred miles of drive data to retune off of
I got a short drive on it, maybe 15 minutes of recorded data, one 2-3 pull. It is for sure a pig! Compared to my D-max...Well, there is no comparison with the D-Max!
It's the little engine that could right now. But, I have no cooling fan. I thought I did, leaving the garage, was told it was running, but that seems to be wrong. So no fan which means while I'm driving the temp stays around 210 or a tad under which I think is about stock. But when I come to a stop light and craw around in traffic the temp gage does some bad stuff.
I hit 230 a couple of times and got a low coolant light. I stopped at Autozone and picked up a gallon of Dexi 50/50 and took a shower of hot dexi when I opened the under pressure cap to the reservoir. I topped that up, taking 3/4 of a gallon and thinking I spilled a pint or two during the explosion, so it was a tad low.
Driving home I got a CEL, Brake light (red) illuminated, anti-lock light illuminated and one instance of increasing temp. Driving it is fine though, just lacks power.
One thing I will say is the ride is unbelievable! I mean it is almost like nothing I have ever driven. So, so smooth and comfortable. THe steering is dead on and is tight. It responds well to inputs and does not lean very much in corners. Considering it is a 7" lift sitting on 35's with a couple hundred pounds on the roof, that's saying a lot. It truly is probably the best riding and most comfortable thing I think I have ever driven!
So I'm wondering if that one data pull of 15 minutes is enough for Justin to play with??? I would just love to get the fan working so i can drive normally.
Oh and the AC fan is also a no go. I almost want to believe the electric fan feature is not turned on in the software Justin sent me. So with no AC fan, the AC will run for a short time. But as the heat builds in the condenser up front there is no fan to push it out which causes pressure to increase. We recorded pressures between 350 and 500 psi on the scanner which causes the high pressure kickout to shut the thing down.
Right now I am sort of stuck without operational cooling...Grrrr.....
Post by: TexasRedNeck on August 09, 2019, 06:33:13 PM
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Post by: dave945 on August 09, 2019, 07:23:47 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on August 09, 2019, 07:58:08 PM
Can go hot wire the cooling fans just to keep he engine cooled down whilst you pull data for the new tune? I know it’s not optimal, but it would give you the opportunity to get more data for the tine.Rog
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What i was thinking
Post by: Bigdave_185 on August 09, 2019, 11:33:16 PM
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Post by: JR on August 10, 2019, 12:23:33 AM
$2200 I’ll take care of it
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Thought we were in the low 3s already?
Post by: dave945 on August 10, 2019, 12:26:29 AM
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Post by: Bigdave_185 on August 10, 2019, 08:45:08 AM
Another option Don
Let’s take the cab off of Cmax and swap the whole deal under the suburban. Win win.
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Post by: Flyin6 on August 10, 2019, 09:01:10 AM
Nope, the more problems the cheaper it getsI like that!
Another option Don
Let’s take the cab off of Cmax and swap the whole deal under the suburban. Win win.
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Post by: swbhobie16 on August 10, 2019, 09:07:12 AM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 10, 2019, 09:12:02 AM
not to hi jack your thread, but there’s an 07 white burb with black leather, double captains chairs. with an LMM in it for sale around here for decent $$ (in my opinion)What's decent money???
The lady of the house is tired of the GJ and wants a Suburban
Edit: Thanks for the PM!
Post by: Bigdave_185 on August 10, 2019, 10:22:43 AM
Time to go edit the GJ thread, what’s the specs on that? My wife wants a GJ with 1tons via greatlakesnot to hi jack your thread, but there’s an 07 white burb with black leather, double captains chairs. with an LMM in it for sale around here for decent $$ (in my opinion)What's decent money???
The lady of the house is tired of the GJ and wants a Suburban
Edit: Thanks for the PM!
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Post by: stlaser on August 10, 2019, 10:47:17 AM
Time to go edit the GJ thread, what’s the specs on that? My wife wants a GJ with 1tons via greatlakesnot to hi jack your thread, but there’s an 07 white burb with black leather, double captains chairs. with an LMM in it for sale around here for decent $$ (in my opinion)What's decent money???
The lady of the house is tired of the GJ and wants a Suburban
Edit: Thanks for the PM!
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:likebutton:
Post by: Flyin6 on August 10, 2019, 05:41:52 PM
OK, so I was successful in getting the engine data recorded over a 25 min test drive...And with no overheating.
Had a couple other unexpected things pop up which surprised me. It slung oil out of both rear hubs all over my wheels! I wonder if I had those tightened up??? If so, I guess, I remove, clean and seal with some RTV.
Other than that I am really happy with the way the thing drives, just great
And something else. I think I'll just hold right here with the LS power plant. I just love the mellow sound that big magnaflow muffler makes and although the power is not apparent, it is there. It would climb long grades with a smoothness and ease that comes partially from those 4.88's and partially from that big torque cam.
The collected engine recorded data along with the stock tune has already been emailed to Justin at Black Bear for him to work his magic. I eagerly await the results from that.
Post by: swbhobie16 on August 10, 2019, 07:02:34 PM
and more than likely that’s the culprit to the gear oil on the rear. unless.. by chance the bolt holes pass through so inside the hub and are allowing oil past the threads?
i’d wager it’s either loose or no gasket there.. easy fix either way
Post by: TexasRedNeck on August 10, 2019, 07:54:28 PM
https://zzdiesel.com/rear-axle-flange-gasket-2001-2010-11-5-rear-axle?adgroup=pla-4576717153391623&campaign=360725089&device=c&keyword=&msclkid=643be84fd9151410f3b7b50080107c6d&utm_campaign=%2A%2ALP+Shop+-+Catch+All&utm_content=Shopping+Catch+All&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=bing&utm_term=4576717153391623
Post by: stlaser on August 10, 2019, 08:08:11 PM
This is what you need Don
https://zzdiesel.com/rear-axle-flange-gasket-2001-2010-11-5-rear-axle?adgroup=pla-4576717153391623&campaign=360725089&device=c&keyword=&msclkid=643be84fd9151410f3b7b50080107c6d&utm_campaign=%2A%2ALP+Shop+-+Catch+All&utm_content=Shopping+Catch+All&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=bing&utm_term=4576717153391623
Interesting, people buy those? I’ve torn apart a lot of axles over the years and it’s almost always silicone.
Post by: TexasRedNeck on August 10, 2019, 08:08:42 PM
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Post by: KensAuto on August 10, 2019, 10:18:38 PM
Post by: Bigdave_185 on August 10, 2019, 11:04:13 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on August 11, 2019, 02:26:13 PM
This is what you need DonWon't fit!
https://zzdiesel.com/rear-axle-flange-gasket-2001-2010-11-5-rear-axle?adgroup=pla-4576717153391623&campaign=360725089&device=c&keyword=&msclkid=643be84fd9151410f3b7b50080107c6d&utm_campaign=%2A%2ALP+Shop+-+Catch+All&utm_content=Shopping+Catch+All&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=bing&utm_term=4576717153391623
I had a pair
But these military hubs from this monster axle has a larger bolt circle which dwarfs that factory GM stuff.
I'll see if I can get a pic...or maybe I posted one somewhere back in the build thread(s) when i was building up that axle
Post by: JR on August 11, 2019, 04:48:52 PM
Nope, the more problems the cheaper it gets
Another option Don
Let’s take the cab off of Cmax and swap the whole deal under the suburban. Win win.
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Think you would have to graft the rear portion of the frame from the sub. Not the same as a truck, but I like the idea.
Post by: Bigdave_185 on August 11, 2019, 05:01:20 PM
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Post by: JR on August 11, 2019, 05:18:55 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 11, 2019, 05:48:50 PM
Amazing... :facepalm:
So, ya, all of the axle bolts on both sides were loose, but can you tell by looking at it? I took this before tightening
Post by: Flyin6 on August 11, 2019, 05:51:15 PM
And about the hub size thing. The smaller one is what our HD silverados get, it's of my truck axle. The larger one is the hub the military gets on their up-armored burbs.
Post by: Flyin6 on August 11, 2019, 05:52:34 PM
That used to be silver!
I had to sand it all off
I'll chase after this later
Post by: Bigdave_185 on August 11, 2019, 08:42:58 PM
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Post by: stlaser on August 11, 2019, 09:47:48 PM
3/4 inch is a real big difference depending on who ya ask lol
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Heck, when I was dating my wife she claimed she was 5 foot and a half inch..... :rolleyes: lol that half inch meant a lot!
Post by: Flyin6 on August 12, 2019, 09:24:40 AM
3/4 inch is a real big difference depending on who ya ask lol^^^ And that right there is why you are scrutinized and beat about the head and shoulder area ,my bonehead friend! ;-)
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Post by: Flyin6 on August 12, 2019, 05:03:39 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 22, 2019, 06:46:31 PM
So I investigated and sure enough, beneath the throttle cable mount there was a vacuum barbed nipple open. So I plugged it and started the engine. Now that's its sealed up, the thing will almost not idle, only holding around 400-450 rpm. Nevertheless, I feathered the gas and got another drive and data log on it but when I tried to download the autocal, it showed having recorded no data.
GRRRRR....
So I guess I will try again tomorrow, weather and conditions permitting.
One thing I am noticing is that the 4.88 gear is PERFECT! I thought it was overgeared, but I think its actually right in its sweet spot. Was averaging 1500-1700 RPM country road driving and almost never climbed over 2,000.
The maintenance, "Get you out of the chockblocks" tune that is in there now is making no power. I so very much hope this motor changes radically once tuned because it is a complete sled right now. It rakes awhile just to get up to 50 mph!
Keep in mind we are still crossing the stream, about mid stream I'd say, so draw no conclusions yet.
Post by: JR on August 22, 2019, 08:52:02 PM
Like you said, mid stream.
Post by: cj7ox on August 30, 2019, 03:49:45 AM
Keep in mind we are still crossing the stream, about mid stream I'd say, so draw no conclusions yet.
NOOOOOOOoooooooo! Don't cross the streams! Bad stuff happens when you cross the streams!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on August 30, 2019, 05:13:14 AM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 30, 2019, 01:52:52 PM
8 days from the last post Don. Whats the latest?Somewhere between the dead zone and the twilight zone
As I stated earlier, Justin noted the vacuum leak, which I fixed. I then did another data log. I failed to shut it all down correctly and lost all of it
I did another test run, this time 39 min. I thought I shut it all down correctly, but when I tried to download the data, there was nothing there on the autocal.
Justin still isn't to my update, may have sidelined me pending the new data log, dunno. I'm trying again today to pull another data log. I can't believe how doggy this burb is. Something has to be very wrong, I'd say its lucky to have 100 HP, maybe less. Wide open is just a change in noise. No acceleration to speak of. Maybe 20 sec 0-60, maybe...
Disappointing at this point, but temporary since it's not been tuned. If it doesn't wake up in a big-big-huge way it's gonna be no fun at all to drive. We'll see
In the mean time, the truck is still down, long time now. I'm in a rental and other things in life need to go on, so I play with this stuff when time allows.
Post by: TexasRedNeck on August 30, 2019, 03:27:15 PM
Unless you want to become the king is unfinished projects, I suggest you get to it PDQ
Otherwise you’ll have knuckle head Dave’s offering to buy it for $1
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Post by: Flyin6 on August 30, 2019, 05:37:49 PM
I’m sure that all the extra air with the heads and cam are throwing mixtures waaay off.Believe me, I don't want any additional accolades or additional Daves for that matter ;-)
Unless you want to become the king is unfinished projects, I suggest you get to it PDQ
Otherwise you’ll have knuckle head Dave’s offering to buy it for $1
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Post by: JR on August 30, 2019, 06:22:24 PM
Post by: dave945 on August 30, 2019, 10:29:18 PM
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Post by: JR on August 30, 2019, 10:51:02 PM
Post by: Bigdave_185 on August 31, 2019, 12:23:27 AM
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Post by: Flyin6 on August 31, 2019, 03:56:25 PM
This beast is gonna roar! :beercheers:
Post by: Flyin6 on September 01, 2019, 05:47:06 PM
And as it turns out, my AutoCal was not losing the data logs after all.
I was just looking for them in the wrong place.
Once I went to the right folder, several data logs were waiting there, so I grabbed up the latest one and promptly sent it to Justin.
Now we wait until I get the new tune back.
Post by: JR on September 01, 2019, 06:47:37 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on September 02, 2019, 12:22:11 PM
That's great, hopefully he feels your pain and gets you a turn ASAP.Hopefully
Post by: Flyin6 on September 05, 2019, 04:20:53 PM
Post by: JR on September 05, 2019, 05:12:05 PM
Post by: TexasRedNeck on September 05, 2019, 05:31:46 PM
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Post by: dave945 on September 05, 2019, 07:23:10 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on September 07, 2019, 09:28:11 AM
Everybody loves the Air Force when it’s time for the big booms!YES we do!
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Post by: Flyin6 on September 10, 2019, 08:50:36 AM
Hi Don,
I can understand why it would feel a bit weak to you, as you don't have the tune installed right now. This is still the stock tune. When you flash in the modified tune, you must only flash the 91+OctTune file. Do not then flash the StockTune after it, as that will revert it to factory settings.
Two evident points to that are the fact that you are shifting 600rpm lower than the tune calls for at nearly full throttle and it is not entering its power enrichment mode above 75% throttle like it is programmed to do.
Justin
BlackBearPerformance.com
That's good to know! So, I suspect the modified tune is coming pdq!
Yippee!
Post by: dave945 on September 10, 2019, 01:48:02 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on September 10, 2019, 03:25:17 PM
Huge difference!!!
Still have to solve the fan issue, but oddly enough the AC fan runs, the idle is around 700 RPM, great firm shifts and a lot more power. And low RPM power too, although a whole different animal than the D-Max. (Read: WAAAY LESS POWER)
The way it is I'd say it is totally usable and a good place to start from
Plan will be to sort the fan, then just start using it. Later on, winterish maybe, add a turbocharger and settle with whatever that yields as a finished powertrain system.
4.88 gears and 35" tires are spot on perfect. Don't know why I was apprehensive with it. Second time I had a street vehicle with 4.88's. Tate suggested the first time and he was correct then too.
Post by: JR on September 10, 2019, 03:58:45 PM
Post by: TexasRedNeck on September 10, 2019, 05:27:21 PM
May I suggest a supercharger instead of turbo if you want instant power down low
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Post by: rpar86 on September 10, 2019, 05:38:06 PM
Keep in mind we are still crossing the stream, about mid stream I'd say, so draw no conclusions yet.
NOOOOOOOoooooooo! Don't cross the streams! Bad stuff happens when you cross the streams!
Yeah, don't cross streams when your hub bolts are loose, you'll get water in the diff and ruin those perfectly fine 4.88's! :knucklehead:
Post by: dave945 on September 10, 2019, 05:44:51 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190910/042b95fb20f5a6a0583bb8cd2264111f.jpg)
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Post by: JR on September 10, 2019, 06:22:33 PM
Post by: rpar86 on September 10, 2019, 06:34:46 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on September 10, 2019, 07:31:54 PM
https://www.summitracing.com/nv/parts/vor-4gx218-150l/overview/Naw, I'm veto'ing the supercharger system
The vortech in JR's link is really like a turbo. Needs to spin up to propel the compressor. And it has no intercooler and working 6-8 psi. Totally 90's
A good roots blower will make 8 lbs and cost around 7K and that's it, no mo to be had
A turbo with a correctly sized exhaust will build boost fast, cost 1/2-2/3 what a blower would cost, make twice the power, be intercooled and have boost capabilities as far as my wallet could stand.
Looking at the On3 system, headers both sides, 84mm decapping those injectors JR sold me or buying some 80pph units and getting Justin to tune it to around 600-700 ft lbs (Thinking a pretty standard 800hp setup. Builds 90% of that torque at 3K and the whole thing done right slips in under 4K
Nossir, I think the smart money is on a well engineered turbo.
I am working through bugs now that it seems I'll be driving it anyday now. Have some stereo issues, dead speaker, annoying bass buzz and stuff like that
I can solve the fan easily by just reinserting the pin into the harness to ECM coupler. I noticed the professor removed it and let it dangle.
Have another annoying issue. The battery(s) will not stay charged very long. I may have charged them too many times, dunno. But I think I may have learned for the final time that I should not run a regular car battery and a deep cycle in parallel.
Doing some research, the deep cycle battery likes to charge very slowly at 13.5-13.7 volts. The standard acid car battery charges much more quickly at 14.5 or even more. So putting both on a normal car charging circuit is over boosting the aft deep cycle battery I think.
I had them all charged up when I drove it today to do another data log, then after fooling with the stereo for 45 min the lights dimmed and I was down to 11% charge showing 11.4 volts.
So gotta solve that, well those things then i can move on to the next project which has actually been going on for awhile now.
Post by: Nate on September 10, 2019, 08:45:37 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on September 10, 2019, 09:47:18 PM
The next project being......the dmax tranny issue?Nope
Close hold at the moment
Just in case I don't go further. Not wanting another failed project. Figure I'll never hit a homerun if I don't step up to the plate and swing the bat!
Post by: JR on September 10, 2019, 10:15:14 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on September 11, 2019, 10:13:18 AM
So still in a rental?No
I use "The boys truck" when I need something, but I really don't need all that much. Enough to do right around here...for now.
Post by: EL TATE on September 11, 2019, 10:57:07 AM
I am working through bugs now that it seems I'll be driving it anyday now. Have some stereo issues, dead speaker, annoying bass buzz and stuff like that
did this thing have a BOSE system in it originally by any chance?
Post by: Flyin6 on September 11, 2019, 11:01:34 AM
But did have a factory bass booster amp thing
Fixing the dead speaker:
I'm going to pull the door panels back off anyway to get a good coating of "Cavity Coater" in there to save the pristine sheet metal.
Post by: JR on September 11, 2019, 11:02:53 AM
Post by: Flyin6 on September 12, 2019, 08:53:58 PM
What a mess!
This is the very reason my truck sat for so long, I just couldn't find anyone I trusted to do good work. That automotive professor who tore into the harness is a friggin idiot! I found wires not attached, one soldered onto a bare spot from another wire, and two pins cut off but still installed into the block!
In this modern America, we just hardly have any talent left at all. I mean, a repair shop did this. A guy who teaches automotive electric systems and repair at gateway college did that! WTH!
I'm like done with it. Flippin morons and hillbillies!
So I diligently pulled things apart, resoldered pins to their correct wires, double and triple checked, then reinserted them into their proper spots
I used a pinout chart to help:
http://www.lt1swap.com/99-02_vortec_pcm.htm
But I was left with a stubby cut off wire protruding from the wiring bundle on C1, the red harness. Not sure where it goes or what it does. It is green, and I haven't gone much farther than that yet, but when i started the engine, it started just fine, then when died. The motor won't idle at all without my feathering the pedal. Looking at the above pin-out chart, I see where two green wires go to pins earmarked for the IAC (Idle air control circuits). I'm betting that cut off wire is the cause. When I cut the wire that had been soldered onto another wire outside the connector, I'm betting they had used that circuit to power the IAC.
Who knows? Back at it tomorrow.
Post by: TexasRedNeck on September 13, 2019, 12:43:55 AM
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Post by: Flyin6 on September 13, 2019, 12:17:00 PM
If you want it done right....So true!
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Brings up a discussion Duane and I had once
I was pointing out the degree to which we had to involve ourselves, educate ourselves and equip ourselves for a myriad of tasks. What was driving it? Why did we have to become a HVAC expert, a master builder, a lawyer and so forth? Because we simply were unable to find quality workmanship at a reasonable price from a guy you could trust.
So between us we know so many things which we may seldom if ever have to do again, all because...
Post by: TexasRedNeck on September 13, 2019, 12:22:30 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on September 13, 2019, 12:23:46 PM
Post by: TexasRedNeck on September 18, 2019, 06:44:23 PM
Btw Don. I have the full set of factory shop manuals wiring diagrams etc if you need me to research something for you
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Post by: Flyin6 on September 19, 2019, 09:40:50 AM
What’s the latest?Tex, I was down to the last wire, but have been side tracked on a bunch of stuff, like an all day bible study with the bros. Man that was a deep dive.
Btw Don. I have the full set of factory shop manuals wiring diagrams etc if you need me to research something for you
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Anyway, farmin today, then maybe get that done in the evening or tomorrow.
Now this is weird...I started it up the next day and it was idling just like a champ! It was like the IAC motor was unplugged the day before and now worked fine. Makes me suspect I have one which is going bad.
Not to worree, I have a TBSS manifold and 92mm TB going on soon. With the gears it is not hurting for low end get-up-n-go, so might as well bolt on the 20+ free HP that comes with the TBSS stuff.
Its getting close.
Post by: Flyin6 on October 05, 2019, 11:18:06 AM
Then for some reason the CB radio pulls voltage sometimes with the key off, others not.
There is a single green wire with black stripe coming out of the wiring bundle that is no longer hooked to anything, although, I am pretty sure it is a ground for some circuit related to HVAC.
Another weird thing is that the dash mounted climate control motor that swings a valve from hot to cold is not allowing AC Cold air to distribute throughout the vehicle. It will make ice at the source, but it won't go anywhere.
The caveat to all this is that life has kept me pretty busy with loads of other things...Pre ranger in the hospital twice with attending Dr. visits, football season, farm stuff and another project that I had to start in order to possibly finish it before June of next year.
In any event, the truck drives really well, almost too good. Very cushy although somewhat floaty and a tad bit top heavy. It needs a lot more power to be fun and it will get it at some future point.
And I think it's about time to announce this other project...
Post by: JR on October 05, 2019, 01:21:37 PM
All the stuff is just a challenge, glad the preranger is better though for sure!
Do a blower, not a turbo. Instant all the time power and no exhaust work!
Post by: swbhobie16 on October 05, 2019, 04:49:53 PM
Just put the fans on a stand dedicated circuit and be done. Might solve the other issues.
All the stuff is just a challenge, glad the preranger is better though for sure!
Do a blower, not a turbo. Instant all the time power and no exhaust work!
i tried the blower instead of turbo argument. fell on deaf (maybe aged is the correct term..?) ears. :grin:
Post by: JR on October 05, 2019, 04:53:19 PM
Just put the fans on a stand dedicated circuit and be done. Might solve the other issues.
All the stuff is just a challenge, glad the preranger is better though for sure!
Do a blower, not a turbo. Instant all the time power and no exhaust work!
i tried the blower instead of turbo argument. fell on deaf (maybe aged is the correct term..?) ears. :grin:
I remember. But for what HE wants, he need to pay a little more.
Post by: EL TATE on October 07, 2019, 12:42:53 PM
Post by: longball on October 07, 2019, 08:51:59 PM
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Post by: swbhobie16 on October 07, 2019, 09:07:16 PM
What does he need a blower fer? Duramax engines already have a turbo.
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this.. this right here. hahah
Post by: JR on October 07, 2019, 09:13:11 PM
Quick plane ride and a slow trip home,,,,,,,,,,,
Post by: Flyin6 on October 08, 2019, 08:24:05 PM
YIPPEE!
Yea, so I don't know exactly what was going on, but after checking it out, I couldn't find anything I did wrong, so I just decided to go drive it around.
I watched the temp come up like before then while driving stayed one tick mark below 210 on the gage. What was different, was that when I rolled to a stop and idled for a bit, the temp stayed right there. I couldn't hear the fan(s) running so I was puzzled as to why the fans still were not working. I drove it home and just let it idle for awhile, and no matter what I did the temp stayed exactly there.
That's when I started to suspect, were the fans actually running???
I looked into the fan shrouds and couldn't focus on any single blade...weird! So I grabbed a little stick and gingerly stuck it into the backside of the fans and was greeted with the rat-tat-tat of fan blades striking the stick. The darned thing was on but making no noise at all that I could hear. Quiet just doesn't do it justice.
When i switched the AC on, the other fan started right up like it should. The thing is cured, and if the truth be known, probably has been working for more than a week, I just never detected the motion of the fans.
So it is technically done from the massive mod, save trying to get the RR speaker working, figuring out how to tune the sub woofer and the primary amp. Aside from that she is sea worthy and ready for the quickly approaching fall break where the pre-rangers get a week off. I can feel some fall campin' in the air!!!!!!!
Post by: swbhobie16 on October 08, 2019, 09:42:27 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on October 08, 2019, 10:20:59 PM
weather is better for camping now anyway.. :beercheers:Yes it is!
Post by: oklawall on October 08, 2019, 11:40:09 PM
Post by: JR on October 09, 2019, 12:13:48 AM
Post by: Flyin6 on October 20, 2019, 12:21:37 PM
The driveability with respect to the suspension is amazing.
But it is really lacking in engine power. Like I have the parking brake set or I am towing a heavy load.
I have noted that the speedo is 7-8 mph off at 60 indicated (Actually going 67-68).
I pulled a data log and sent it to Justin, Black bear performance and he noted that there was either some spark knock or lifters or injectors that were causing spark timing to be retarded. I am not sure that the retarded timing could account for this large a lack of power. I would say that the truck might top out around 80 mph, so something is definitely amiss. Please note that I still had 87 octane fuel in there running a 91 octane tune.
However now after a half tank of 93 octane and another half tank of 92 octane it doesn't seem to be running any better.
Here's another mystery. Before the tune, with that larger torque cam, the thing had a nice choppy idle like you would expect. After the tune, the truck idles almost like a stocker! Now how did that happen?
Finally the gas mileage is obscenely terrible. Two nights ago I burned half a tank of gas driving to Louisville and back, like 1+15 each way at maybe 70 mph. Now at 70 the truck is really tacking up like 2600-2700 RPM so it must be sucking gas, but I have over 40 gallons, so twenty gallons in 2+30 of driving. Make that possibly 170 miles to equate to 8.5 MPG.
So my concerns are:
Something major is wrong with the motor like cam timing
or the tune is way out of wack
If something major is not amis, then I doubt I could use this truck to pull a camper across country
If something is wrong that would account from the thing running so poorly, then would a turbo help all that much
And if I did turbo it, I'd be on boost all the time
Then what would the mileage be then?
Dunno, but this gas combo is just not panning out
I plan to do some diagnostics and hopefully find a culprit
But if I don't, I am not sure I may not be forced to put a duramax into the truck
Post by: wyorunner on October 20, 2019, 12:50:20 PM
Post by: Bigdave_185 on October 20, 2019, 12:54:15 PM
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Post by: TexasRedNeck on October 20, 2019, 02:18:21 PM
And remember boys. He has to have 2001-2002 wiring harness and FICM to make the conversion. Different comm protocol.
That’s an expensive proposition.
Perhaps pulling the motor and having someone check it over and tune it in a dyno would be a good route?
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Post by: wyorunner on October 20, 2019, 02:27:20 PM
Sorry to hear Don. My 2001 always got about 12 mpg lifted and stock motor.
And remember boys. He has to have 2001-2002 wiring harness and FICM to make the conversion. Different comm protocol.
That’s an expensive proposition.
Perhaps pulling the motor and having someone check it over and tune it in a dyno would be a good route?
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Ahh yes, trying to make all the factory stuff inside the burb work. Still in the mindset of nothing is factory, simply because that is what I am dealing with.
Post by: Mrwoody on October 23, 2019, 10:58:44 PM
Here’s your next project
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1990-chevrolet-3500/
Post by: TexasRedNeck on October 23, 2019, 11:24:19 PM
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Post by: swbhobie16 on October 24, 2019, 07:41:08 AM
Big Don
Here’s your next project
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1990-chevrolet-3500/
i can think of a few things to do with that..
Post by: TexasRedNeck on October 24, 2019, 08:29:52 AM
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Post by: stlaser on October 24, 2019, 08:44:56 AM
What axles do you think it has under it?
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Unless I am mistaken on the later year units it should have a 60/14 sm465/205 454
Post by: Flyin6 on October 24, 2019, 09:01:13 AM
I would be interested if I didn't already have mine
I am having a difficult time not picking up one of these:
Post by: swbhobie16 on October 24, 2019, 09:48:23 AM
What axles do you think it has under it?
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100% dana 60 front and 14 bolt rear (silhouettes) and vertical tcase shifter is NP205.
Post by: EL TATE on October 24, 2019, 10:54:04 AM
What axles do you think it has under it?
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Unless I am mistaken on the later year units it should have a 60/14 sm465/205 454
correct on all accounts sir.
Post by: Flyin6 on October 24, 2019, 05:36:48 PM
I am driving it every day. It just runs great, excepting the lack of power.
Something there is amiss for sure, but by sticking my foot into it further it has a little more grunt. Maybe I am just used to a Duramax which makes all gas engines feel wimpy.
Picking up some drops of oil on the drivers floor mat. That would most likely be the Hydro boost unit. Maybe time to pull that puppy down and install some new O-Rings
Post by: JR on October 24, 2019, 06:33:02 PM
Maybe something you lubed and its dripping, steering univ
Post by: Flyin6 on October 24, 2019, 08:23:27 PM
Don't think there is any way oil can drip from the booster.I beg to differ my Kali friend
Maybe something you lubed and its dripping, steering univ
The brake pedal begat the plunger which begat the piston in the booster which doth slideth to and fro. Should the seal become not so much, then fluid would be implored due to pressure to find its way onto your penny loafers or wing-tips.
So sez the Oracle, therefore it is...!
Post by: Bigdave_185 on October 24, 2019, 10:31:20 PM
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Post by: KensAuto on October 25, 2019, 12:56:46 AM
Don, did you put stiffer valve springs in? Don't remember.
When he looked at the data, the fuel trims looked ok? Usually if there's an issue the fuel trims reflect it.
And, did you replace the O2 sensors?
Post by: Flyin6 on October 25, 2019, 12:04:18 PM
What about your hokie park brake valve? Is that leaking?It's not hokie, nothing I build is hokie, my life is not hokie, the world is n......
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Naw, it's as dry as the offering plate at a Baptist convention! ;-))
Post by: Flyin6 on October 25, 2019, 12:08:52 PM
For sure the booster.Ken, I think you are on it...where I was thinking
Don, did you put stiffer valve springs in? Don't remember.
When he looked at the data, the fuel trims looked ok? Usually if there's an issue the fuel trims reflect it.
And, did you replace the O2 sensors?
Valve train noise sounding like detonation to the knock sensors
Yes, double springs, moly pushrods, Z06 lifters
He mentioned spark knock, retarding timing, not getting into the fuel enrichment cycle.
O2 Sensors same old ones
Post by: swbhobie16 on October 25, 2019, 01:46:01 PM
For sure the booster.Ken, I think you are on it...where I was thinking
Don, did you put stiffer valve springs in? Don't remember.
When he looked at the data, the fuel trims looked ok? Usually if there's an issue the fuel trims reflect it.
And, did you replace the O2 sensors?
Valve train noise sounding like detonation to the knock sensors
Yes, double springs, moly pushrods, Z06 lifters
He mentioned spark knock, retarding timing, not getting into the fuel enrichment cycle.
O2 Sensors same old ones
i was thinking the same thing. if the timing is way regarded.. you’d lose that lope you should be getting from the cam. as well as throttle response. and.. as mentioned before. terrible mileage. that’s worse than our 587 pete with N14 ISX cummins @ ~40k GVRW.
Post by: Flyin6 on October 25, 2019, 07:12:11 PM
Post by: Sammconn on October 25, 2019, 10:13:18 PM
That used to be a presidential solution...What about your hokie park brake valve? Is that leaking?It's not hokie, nothing I build is hokie, my life is not hokie, the world is n.....
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Post by: DDS on October 28, 2019, 08:01:03 AM
That is a beauty
I would be interested if I didn't already have mine
I am having a difficult time not picking up one of these:
Mine just turned 60K & aside from a few issues I had early on, I still love it.
Post by: Flyin6 on November 01, 2019, 02:07:34 PM
I don't work on it all the time, I have plenty of other things to do, but from time to time I do continue messing with this truck
So, I pulled a good data log and sent that off to Justin at Black Bear Performance. We'll see what he finds out
Meanwhile, I noticed a rumble, almost a vibration that starts being noticable around 60mph and is obvious and making a humming sound at 70. I was thinking while driving in the rain yesterday that that it sure sounded like the front driveshaft was spinning. When I turned off the exit on a wet road I hit the gas some and it did not spin out. That got me thinking. It wouldn't spin out if it was in 4WD...
Today I climbed underneath it and discovered a couple things. Fitst, that new Fomoto oil drain valve is leaking through the threaded body (Its bad!). Secondly, there were drips of transmission fluid around the pan, so that needs addressing and, finally, the front driveshaft was not free spinning. So, yep, it is either in 4WD or the front axle uncoupler is not functioning.
Now that would account for a bunch of the lost performance, being in eternal 4WD with all its associated drag, but not for the total lack of power this vehicle seems to have.
So I continue, pressing ever onward toward eventual ...Victory???
Post by: TexasRedNeck on November 01, 2019, 04:49:20 PM
Playing around with this thing a bit more.
I don't work on it all the time, I have plenty of other things to do, but from time to time I do continue messing with this truck
So, I pulled a good data log and sent that off to Justin at Black Bear Performance. We'll see what he finds out
Meanwhile, I noticed a rumble, almost a vibration that starts being noticable around 60mph and is obvious and making a humming sound at 70. I was thinking while driving in the rain yesterday that that it sure sounded like the front driveshaft was spinning. When I turned off the exit on a wet road I hit the gas some and it did not spin out. That got me thinking. It wouldn't spin out if it was in 4WD...
Today I climbed underneath it and discovered a couple things. Fitst, that new Fomoto oil drain valve is leaking through the threaded body (Its bad!). Secondly, there were drips of transmission fluid around the pan, so that needs addressing and, finally, the front driveshaft was not free spinning. So, yep, it is either in 4WD or the front axle uncoupler is not functioning.
Now that would account for a bunch of the lost performance, being in eternal 4WD with all its associated drag, but not for the total lack of power this vehicle seems to have.
So I continue, pressing ever onward toward eventual ...DURAMAX SWAP
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Post by: Flyin6 on November 01, 2019, 05:52:35 PM
I changed the oil, first time since the engine semi-overhaul. A couple of rod bolt heads, ring lands and parts of the timing chain clogged the oil pan for awhile, but I flushed it out with the pressure washer and topped it with fresh 75W-90 so it's all good
Actually, I did change the oil, then got after the 4WD thing.
So with the engine off, but electrical power up, (Key on) I switched it from 2WD to 4WD to 2WD a number of times and could hear the transfer case encoder motor whirring each time I hit the button.
So I know that is working. That leaves the possibility that the front axle disconnector motor/assembly is not working or there is something internally wrong with the transfer.
Now, given that I just had that transfer all apart and it gets reassembled in a more or less straight forward manner, I doubt there is anything wrong with it.
Which leaves most of my fingers pointing to the front axle disconnector as a likely culprit. I say that because I have no codes, the encoder motor is working normally, and so is the transfer case selector panel. No flashing lights except for a brief interlude as the thing changes modes, then a comforting solid on the yeller lite is ah' glowin'.
Knowing that I just installed a brand new unit, I doubt that it has failed, which leaves me wiring as a primary culprit. The problem with these front axle disconnector setups is usually just a faulty ground. Those motors ground on the body to frame mount just beneath the hinges of the drivers door. So I yanked that puppy, only to find a factory fresh metal surface, just like everything else I have inspected on this pristine example.
So I am due a continuity check on that wiring bundle connecting that motor, and if that is not it, then there is one more place to go. Something like a TCM which I need to get smart on which will likely also require a GM license ($$$ for nothing) to reset or if needed program a replacement
This raises a basic question:
Who owns my vehicle?
I am pretty sure the title is in my name
And I am darned sure I paid for the thing.
But I cannot access and program any of the computer modules myself. I need a GM supplied licence to unlock MY KUMPUTER! I do not have permission to do it myself. I must ask for, then pay for the right to replace a defective computer which I own.
Am I nutz or is there something wrong with that?
Post by: stlaser on November 02, 2019, 12:04:29 AM
Post by: swbhobie16 on November 02, 2019, 08:47:16 AM
wait. what am i saying. i fully support the swap! hahah
Post by: Flyin6 on November 02, 2019, 10:51:58 AM
Post by: dave945 on November 02, 2019, 06:16:01 PM
Then swap in a Duramax and donate the 6.0 to me for the Blazer swap. ;)
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Post by: Flyin6 on November 03, 2019, 08:17:11 AM
Don, don’t listen to them. That 6.0 should run a lot better than you are describing. I say get the tune right, fully powered and running right so you are happy with it.Well, I sure am going to go down the road to getting it right. Currently is is almost there, to the point that I am driving it every day almost.
Then swap in a Duramax and donate the 6.0 to me for the Blazer swap. ;)
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I am currently researching the locked front driveshaft thing.
With my autotrac front case I am not sure if the thing should freewheel in 2H or remain locked.
Because of the amount of disinformation on the net, I could point to either answer.
One thing I have read is that the front axle motor device is highly suspect. You may recall that I replaced mine with an aftermarket piece. I have read several times where folks replacing the stock AC-Delco part with an aftermarket part at one third the price (Me) often suffers from bolting in a faulty unit or one destined to fail shortly.
So it looks like a test is imminent.
So if the front axle is actually remaining locked while in 2H, then the associated drag would account for some of the missing performance, but not all.
Justin will still have to weigh in on the data log I pulled to see what is going on there. Certainly there is something weird enough to cause a lopey cam motor to suddenly idle almost like a stocker. Then in the coming days I will have to determine of the front end pieces are operating as they should.
So, without going crazy speculating, this is where the vehicle is at the moment
Some things that I did do was to just tie the front and rear batteries together for the moment. The front is a standard Interstate battery designed to crank the motor. The rear is a deep cycle made to last and discharge over a long time. With the system I had, the rear battery was dying regularly, but now everything seems to be working just fine.
I got the stereo system dialed in a lot closer and it is delivering great sound, although I am missing all power, speaker and window to the RR door, so some is amiss there. The cooling issue is resolved, but there is still something going on with the climate control motor.
So onward and upward, I'll continue to get after it.
Post by: Flyin6 on November 04, 2019, 10:18:02 AM
I'm just askin' so don't read anything into it!
Post by: JR on November 04, 2019, 11:10:48 AM
Post by: TexasRedNeck on November 04, 2019, 12:35:56 PM
Easiest to find a same year model 2500hd with the duramax and buy a rollover or rear end collison
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Post by: Flyin6 on November 04, 2019, 03:05:11 PM
Don I don’t think you need aftermarket. You just need the factory parts and they’ll plug right up.I'm going to start a new thread discussing D-Max conversion of this 2500
Easiest to find a same year model 2500hd with the duramax and buy a rollover or rear end collison
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Post by: swbhobie16 on November 04, 2019, 08:11:14 PM
Don I don’t think you need aftermarket. You just need the factory parts and they’ll plug right up.I'm going to start a new thread discussing D-Max conversion of this 2500
Easiest to find a same year model 2500hd with the duramax and buy a rollover or rear end collison
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i don’t think you’ll find any objection here..
Post by: Flyin6 on November 11, 2019, 09:16:15 PM
Hi Don,
I believe that a big part of your issue here is the noise that your valve springs are generating. The PCM is picking up a LOT of detonation/pinging, however I believe that is false knock due to the valve train. Either that or you are running fuel that is far too low of an octane for the compression increase with the 243 heads (over the stock 317s). What fuel is this?
Justin
Post by: TexasRedNeck on November 12, 2019, 06:08:16 AM
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Post by: TexasRedNeck on November 12, 2019, 06:09:43 AM
And the answer to the fuel question?
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One way to test that is to head to the local airport and put a few gallons of Av Gas in it.
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Post by: Flyin6 on November 12, 2019, 08:30:12 AM
And the answer to the fuel question?That was after the second tank of 93, so I'm betting better than 91 octane in the tank at the time of the pull
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Post by: Flyin6 on November 12, 2019, 08:33:14 AM
If you hammer it as the RPM builds you can feel the power being reduced, like the weight you are pulling is increasing. That is probably caused by increasing knock and the timing being progressively retarded
I was watching vids of 6.0 trucks with a cam and some of those things fly! Mine is the antithesis of that, so something is definitely amiss.
Post by: swbhobie16 on November 12, 2019, 11:50:34 AM
Post by: Flyin6 on November 12, 2019, 02:32:48 PM
any way your TPS could be off/sending odd signals to ECM?If that was going on, I think Justin would have picked it up
I think he is on the issue
Now, can he do anything about it???
Post by: JR on November 12, 2019, 02:35:10 PM
Post by: TexasRedNeck on November 13, 2019, 06:28:38 AM
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Post by: Flyin6 on November 13, 2019, 09:39:36 AM
Florence speedway in Walton has Sunoco racing fuel.That's crazy
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Justin writes the tune for 91 octane
It had two tankfuls of 93
And I am not the first person to run dual valve springs with knock sensors
There is some simple reason for this, and I need to find it
OK, I'm done ;-)
Post by: TexasRedNeck on November 13, 2019, 09:43:04 AM
There is the possibility of bad sensors or something else, so I would bump the octane to 105 or so just to data log and use that as process of elimination. If it still wont run right with 105 then you absolutely know there is an electronics problem of some kind or you have to investigate the valve springs a little further.
It’s a cheap way to start the process and requires no wrenching.
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Post by: Flyin6 on November 13, 2019, 09:50:19 AM
Understood Don. I just tend to follow a simple process of elimination based on the capabilities I have at hand....Good advice
There is the possibility of bad sensors or something else, so I would bump the octane to 105 or so just to data log and use that as process of elimination. If it still wont run right with 105 then you absolutely know there is an electronics problem of some kind or you have to investigate the valve springs a little further.
It’s a cheap way to start the process and requires no wrenching.
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Perhaps I could go there
But at the moment it is in some capable hands
Considering that the head swap is a common one, and that the valve springs have been used many, many times, and the cam is well sorted, I think it could come down to an overzealous knock sensor, although not likely as both were new AC-Delco units, along with a new harness.
One thing that had me wondering from the start (literally) is the valve train noise. Remember the sound of a finely adjusted solid lifter engine? Well, this one has that sound. I confess that I love it, but is that normal?
I am running Z06 lifters, and this is the first time I ever did that.
The cam manufacturer recommended them BTW
I installed his moly pushrods, which he also recommended
I am using stock rockers which are great for this application. I used a new Chevrolet performance cam chain
and
I put a coat of wax on the fenders!
So what in the heck could it be?????????????
Post by: TexasRedNeck on November 13, 2019, 09:57:02 AM
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Post by: Flyin6 on November 13, 2019, 10:59:25 AM
Well if you hear valve train noise then so do the sensors.Still waiting to hear from Justin,
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But, I wonder how does one check those?
Post by: EL TATE on November 13, 2019, 12:31:44 PM
Well if you hear valve train noise then so do the sensors.Still waiting to hear from Justin,
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But, I wonder how does one check those?
Let me know when you find out. mine has the same noise on a newly remanned motor. Same as yours. knock sensors and harness were replaced on mine but intake manifold warped and had a vacuum leak but I kicked an idiot light right away. it did not have the power issues you're having though. towing my boat I seem to have more power than you're describing and i'm factory everything 6.0L.
Post by: TexasRedNeck on November 13, 2019, 12:35:37 PM
Justin would know I would guess.
I would try the racing fuel and if its really not knocking but picking up the valve noise, you’ll know because it won’t run any better with the higher octane
Then
Maybe readjust the lash and see if that quiets them down and or replace with singles.
Singles should be good to 6k rpm easy.
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Post by: Flyin6 on November 13, 2019, 05:06:10 PM
I thought I read somewhere that they could tune out the knock sensors or tone them down.These springs, dual springs were recommended by the cam grinder, so I'm pretty sure they are OK
Justin would know I would guess.
I would try the racing fuel and if its really not knocking but picking up the valve noise, you’ll know because it won’t run any better with the higher octane
Then
Maybe readjust the lash and see if that quiets them down and or replace with singles.
Singles should be good to 6k rpm easy.
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Valve train is non adjustable...Stock LS configuration
Post by: Bigdave_185 on November 13, 2019, 06:13:46 PM
Seen parts shipped that were packaged wrong before,
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Post by: JR on November 13, 2019, 06:52:06 PM
Well if you hear valve train noise then so do the sensors.
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You should not hear hyd lifters unless you are adjusting them. Aren't the sensors like a switch?on/off no in between but how the ecm responds should be adjustable. Plus they are in the valley under the intake, not easy to change!
AV gas, I like it!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on November 13, 2019, 07:53:28 PM
These springs, dual springs were recommended by the cam grinder, so I'm pretty sure they are OKYeah and Adam Schiff has the county’s best interest at heart.
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Post by: Flyin6 on November 22, 2019, 09:05:51 PM
All in all, I have probably waited more than six months and lost an entire camping season just waiting for something to happen with a tune that will wake up this truck
If this is the way it is going to be, I am either going to have to find a local tuner, learn to tune myself, or abandon this gas motor world for a duramax.
Venting here a little, but this mail order tune thing is just not working for me at all.
Post by: TexasRedNeck on November 22, 2019, 09:18:27 PM
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Post by: wyorunner on November 22, 2019, 09:48:58 PM
Post by: stlaser on November 22, 2019, 10:26:27 PM
Post by: Bigdave_185 on November 22, 2019, 10:50:16 PM
Sent you a link in Facebook messenger. Might be worth a communication to see what his thoughts are
Emmerich LsX tuning
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Post by: Flyin6 on November 23, 2019, 11:52:48 AM
We have lots of local folks here, used to work with a nice guy who knew his stuff, not sure if he ever turned it into a business but he was a good employee at L3 with me.Ya, thinking...
Sent you a link in Facebook messenger. Might be worth a communication to see what his thoughts are
Emmerich LsX tuning
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Post by: rpar86 on November 23, 2019, 12:09:36 PM
He put a blower on his wife’s Escalade... then blew it up (sorta).
Fasterproms is the channel.
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Post by: Flyin6 on November 23, 2019, 01:00:18 PM
There is a guy based out of Tampa, FL that does all kinds of tuning with LS engines. Has a pretty popular youtoob channel with a bunch of hijinks, but seems to know his stuff.Salt Lake Dave was proactive with providing a name, who he has reached out to.
He put a blower on his wife’s Escalade... then blew it up (sorta).
Fasterproms is the channel.
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Having said that, Shawn pointed to the smart direction of finding some local guy.
I'm sure there are plenty of talented folks all over the US, but what if I fall into the same loop as I am in now. I won hardware that is licensed to a particular vendor and that person is so busy as to approach becoming unresponsive.
My project will just drag on and on until I get someone who would work on it like I do, who can identify an area of concern then actually do something about it.
Post by: KensAuto on November 23, 2019, 02:06:38 PM
You have 60psi + oil pressure revved up, 20+ at an idle?
Post by: stlaser on November 23, 2019, 03:45:06 PM
Post by: Bigdave_185 on November 23, 2019, 06:17:21 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on November 23, 2019, 06:58:37 PM
Overtightened knock sensors will be oversensitive. Could try loosening them. That being said, you shouldn't be hearing your lifters.(all 16 making noise?) Something is wrong.Over tightened? I would hesitate to say affirmative to that, as I was very careful and do not overtighten things normally
You have 60psi + oil pressure revved up, 20+ at an idle?
As for oil pressure, After having replaced the pump and having installed the new O-ring in the oil pickup tube, the oil pressure seems to be good, although I'll have to go out to check.
The only thing I question at all is the pushrods. Chrome molly stock length, which were a deviation from stock.
The lifters do not make "lifter noise" persee, the entire valvetrain just sounds, well, great! It does have a switch watch tuned solid lifter quality to the sound, but not the least bit loud at all. I would post a recording, but first of all you probably wouldn't be able to hear it, and secondly, you'd have me running off to the airport to get some jet grease or something!!!!!!!!!
Post by: KensAuto on November 23, 2019, 11:40:30 PM
I also only use OEM knock sensors. (Had aftermarket ones throw codes).
Note of interest: About 95% of all the (stock) cars I've worked on with an audible detination issue had a mass airflow sensor problem... usually dirty.
..but, if yours isn't actually detonating, that won't apply.
Not trying to write a book, just certain things I've ran into. If it's normal for your valve train to make the noise it's making (I don't have any experience with that setup), and it's not a MAF sensor, fuel, or tuning issue, then making the knock sensors less sensitive might be a path to take.
PS. 5 gallons of sour gas can destroy 30 gallons of 93 octane. That truck was tore down long enough to have soured the fuel imo.
Post by: Flyin6 on November 24, 2019, 10:52:41 AM
I may just get after those knock sensors
I purchased a TBSS intake and 92mm TB some time ago, but never mounted it because this tune thing goes on for months.
Not the gas, had only a 1/4 tank or less when I started, filled with 93 octane, then ran that down to 1/4 tank. Refilled with 92 Octane and ran that down to 1/4 tank. Then refilled with 92 Octane which I am sitting on now. IMO, not gas.
Post by: dave945 on November 24, 2019, 02:19:29 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on November 24, 2019, 08:06:23 PM
Justin,
FYI, when I rebuilt this thing, I installed new knock sensors, a new harness, and applied RTV according to the factory bulletin.
And that is functioning properly. I am working towards your update to reduce that knock sensor sensitivity.
Post by: Bigdave_185 on November 24, 2019, 08:36:46 PM
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Post by: TexasRedNeck on November 25, 2019, 08:39:04 AM
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Post by: Flyin6 on November 25, 2019, 09:49:06 AM
Good to hear. I still think Ken is onto something. If you didn’t torque them on dry clean threads I’d start there. If they are a binary device then not sure how to tune them less sensitiveNot my lane, but we will soon see (I hope)
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Do I believe in the end that this thing will get sorted and maybe even run well?
Yes I do
But the very long wait times between events, sometimes spanning seasons has become the immediate and real problem
Post by: Flyin6 on November 30, 2019, 12:01:52 PM
I just sent him the following email and am now actively looking for a tuner who will actually work with me and deliver something.
Justin,
I think I may need to find another way to get my Suburban tuned. This process of yours takes weeks to months. It's been months waiting for something to happen with your services, and my Suburban is still not tuned! I have emailed and called, but still nothing.
So, is there a way you can unlock my autocal so I would not lose all the money I spent on this with you? I suppose I'll have to go find someone tuning EFI live and it would be rough having to buy yet another autocal.
The experience working with you has not been responsive. I appreciate that you are likely the best tuner out there, and have many satisfied customers on the pages of my forum. I don't know how others have responded, but having to wait so long is untenable for me. Heck, I wanted to have had this truck sorted way back in May!!!!!!!! By now I wanted to have had the turbo installed and tuned and ready to pull a trailer around the country. I don't know if you just have too many customers, forgot about my requests, I got back burnered, but for feedback purposes this experience has been a poor one for me.
I wish you luck, and I guess, no longer have any expectations from you.
Best to you!
Don Harward
Aviator, US Army, Retired
Author of: Distant Thunder
Psalm 144:1.
Blessed be the Lord my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle.”
If you don't know Jesus, this earthly life is the only heaven you will ever know.
If you know Jesus, this earthly life is the only hell you will ever know.
Post by: Flyin6 on November 30, 2019, 12:17:43 PM
First one sent to: LSX Power Tuning
Post by: JR on November 30, 2019, 12:27:28 PM
Post by: wilsonphil on November 30, 2019, 12:34:01 PM
My guess he has not taken the time to train anyone to help with the volume he is dealing with, again this is TOTAL speculation. Either way its not a good way to operate a business you charge people money for.
My brother had very good luck EFI live on the other hand. Also Oil burners are better!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on November 30, 2019, 07:33:38 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on November 30, 2019, 08:25:54 PM
Don, with all brotherly love, I’m saying this. Go find a shop with a dyno and tuner and let them sort it out all at once. The back and forth is killing your time and money. I’d still think long and hard about pulling the intake and reinstalling the knock sensors like Ken said as well.Tex, I can't find anyone really local with a dyno that i can get any good copy on.
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I've been learning a bunch from the research I have been doing. One thing I learned is that HP tuners may be a better solution. With EFI Live, you have to buy that autocal device which is useless for anything else and is married to the tuner who sold it to you.
Not so with the HP tuner suie. With it, I can make changes myself.
Some years ago, as in a bunch, I owned a Z06 vette. Had an LS6 with a healthy cam, heads, headers and so forth. The guy who tuned it after the cam used HP tuner and man, did he ever get it right. Talking with him, an engineer at the GE aircraft engine plant, he sounded very much like me. He built aa 383 vette and bought the HP tuner package and started tuning it himself. It didn't take him long and the local SCCA guys racing chevys were all getting tuned by him. Self taught and a wizard.
With that in mind, I just got an email back (already) from LSX:
Donald,
Im sorry you are having issues with getting a tune, I cant speak for someone else but thats not how we operate. From the time you checkout in our store and send us your tune and the pdf form we send you a new base tune and data logging instructions within 3 business days. Then once you send in a data log we do our best (99% of the time) to send you an updated tune back with in 1 business day. We just repeat that process until your happy with the tune.
Now for the bad news, your autocal is married to Blackbears V2 and can only accept tunes from them currently. They would have to send you an unlock code to unmarry the V2 from their V2 so I could send you a link code to marry it to my V2. Then the last issue is to tune your suburban 100% correctly you would need a wideband O2 sensor connected to the auto cal (no easy way to do that) to tune wide open throttle. We can tune everything else correctly minus wide open throttle without a wideband.
We prefer to us hp tuners and a wideband for remote tunes because we can do them 100% correctly. Also with hp tuners it gives you the ability to make changes yourself later on and you dont have have a device that is worthless to you like an autocal.
Im sure this is a lot to take in so feel free to call the shop Monday and I can go over everything if this is confusing or you have any questions.
Thanks
Lorenz
LSX Power Tuning LLC
205 Wildflower Rd Brenham TX 77833
979.209.0325
Post by: TexasRedNeck on November 30, 2019, 09:31:07 PM
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Post by: JR on November 30, 2019, 09:41:21 PM
The tuner owns the tunes, you own the device.
Post by: Flyin6 on November 30, 2019, 09:56:25 PM
Don, I bet EFI can unlock that for you. \I think I am turning the corner to leaving EFI live and moving to HP Tuners.
The tuner owns the tunes, you own the device.
Its more like what I want to move toward. My truck tune will be on my laptop. I can open anything and make any change I want at anytime for no cost.
Learning...
Post by: Flyin6 on November 30, 2019, 09:57:34 PM
You can always come to Texas and stay at my place while they work on your truck. Jus saying. It’s like a camping trip. We can work with the pre rangers on shooting and moving. Who knows,maybe even Ash will come out of hidingThanks!
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I'll be stopping by at some point. I want to see all that you have done in person and eat one of those outstanding dishes you are always cooking.
Post by: JR on November 30, 2019, 09:59:00 PM
Post by: stlaser on December 01, 2019, 05:41:45 PM
Dyno services available
Call them, maybe write a check.....
Post by: Bigdave_185 on December 01, 2019, 06:44:07 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on December 01, 2019, 07:47:50 PM
When I went off searching for someone to tune the Burb after the BlackBear Performance no-show I remember a young man who sold me a car, well actually a Yukon Denali once. He was leaving the business to follow his passion of opening his own performance shop. I looked for him but couldn't find him and then went off for some reputable tuner.
Well guess what happened today? Nick, the man in question messaged me this morning right out of the blue (God). He said he got a chuckle when he ran across my Suburban build and read about BlackBear. He said he had gotten a bunch of business from guys like him over the years...
"So you tune", I asked. He said it was about all he did anymore. He has a chassis dyno in his shop and knows everything there is to know about tuning these engines in trucks both normally aspirated and turbocharged. So there you have it, problem solved. Nick told me that he needed to see it, drive it, test it, feel it, and smell it to get the tune right for it. It will take some time but I can't help but feel this is answered prayer, although I never actually prayed about it. You see, I couldn't elevate anything like that, without my spirit making me think about Idol worship. So I gave the burb, my truck, the excavator and my left handed wrenches all to God some time ago. Should he decide to remove them from my life, then it would be to my benefit. I keep things where they belong, way behind my Lord!
OK, got off on a tangent right there. I have to get the truck fixed and the hydro boost fixed in the Burb, then I'll motor down there and get this process started.
More to come
Very exciting
His shop: Skaats Performance Motorsports, Covington, KY.
Post by: Bigdave_185 on December 01, 2019, 09:03:09 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on December 02, 2019, 10:34:28 AM
You had better make a video of the dyno and keep the max out of the mall lots for hell sakes.Copy...Roger!
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Post by: Nskaats on December 02, 2019, 01:30:34 PM
As far as the tuning side of things, I knew exactly who Don was referring to on his facebook post without him having to mention a name. I've had to redo a LOT of tunes over the years from that particular business. They have a loyal following on different forums and facebook groups because they have a good sales pitch, they're cheap, and most of their customer base really doesn't understand much about the process. People simply don't know what they don't know. Those in the know always find a local tuner that knows their way around a stock PCM.
In my eyes, mailorder tuning is at best a dishonest business practice. You just can't do things properly unless you have a chance to drive and datalog the vehicle yourself. The same thing goes for anyone that locks a PCM. The people in our industry that do this are typically trying to hide something, often the fact that you didn't get what you paid for. The only thing they're protecting is reputation. Intellectual property does not apply in any way to this process. You're using a third party software/hardware combo to calibrate a computer system that an OEM designed and sold to the end user. The tuner literally doesn't OWN any bit of it.
Post by: Flyin6 on December 02, 2019, 02:54:53 PM
Plan will be to get the Burb into your hands, hopefully this week, then write about the process. I'll video the dyno time, assuming there is some and document results.
All of this will be a baseline then in time, likely less than a year, modify the truck by turbocharging and start making some good usable towing power for the thing.
The best thing about this "reconnection" is how I think it will serve to unmask the tuning side of things which will point to the honest brokers like Nick that people like RedNeck were pushing me toward all along.
Post by: swbhobie16 on December 02, 2019, 03:26:31 PM
Thanks Nick for intro'ing yourself.
Plan will be to get the Burb into your hands, hopefully this week, then write about the process. I'll video the dyno time, assuming there is some and document results.
All of this will be a baseline then in time, likely less than a year, modify the truck by turbocharging and start making some good usable towing power for the thing.
The best thing about this "reconnection" is how I think it will serve to unmask the tuning side of things which will point to the honest brokers like Nick that people like RedNeck were pushing me toward all along.
every time i hear ‘turbocharge’ i immediately also think ‘.. with no spark plugs’, but it sounds like this 6.0 is getting ready to be ripped wide open (performance wise) and then on top of that having a whirly bird or two bolted on.. shouldn’t have any sort of power issue save pulling a back hoe.
Post by: TexasRedNeck on December 02, 2019, 06:05:59 PM
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Post by: Nskaats on December 03, 2019, 09:33:08 AM
Post by: Bigdave_185 on December 03, 2019, 09:40:18 AM
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Post by: Nskaats on December 04, 2019, 01:20:09 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on December 04, 2019, 01:54:56 PM
In case you needed a nudge, Don....these things do work REALLY well and bolt right onto your Suburban. All that torque is exactly what a truck needs.Stop it right now! ;-)
Post by: stlaser on December 04, 2019, 03:15:29 PM
Post by: TexasRedNeck on December 04, 2019, 03:41:44 PM
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Post by: rpar86 on December 04, 2019, 04:40:12 PM
Don’t have an I told you so bone in my body
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I do!
^ he told ya so! :D ;)
Post by: Flyin6 on December 04, 2019, 05:56:41 PM
You boneheads...
Not sayin' I'm doing it, but Nick and I are discussing the LSA blower modification, tune and all that business.
I didn't think you could make all that much power out of that blower, but apparently I am wrong, Nick thinks he can safely tune 10-12 lbs boost for a reliable 500 RWHP which should be plenty good enough to motivate the burb and pull the camper
And it's not an ego thing, I discovered long ago, I am not the greatest everything that ever existed and that a wise man is best served relying in part on the wisdom of those around him.
Post by: JR on December 04, 2019, 06:16:37 PM
No spool up/lag, power down deep for that rig.
Post by: Nskaats on December 05, 2019, 09:57:31 AM
Turbos are fun and I'm definitely not against them. However, for a truck application that will be worked it'll be expensive to do it right and reliable. The hot side has to be carefully designed to prevent any failures due to a wide temperature range with rapid increases at times. You're adding a bunch of potential exhaust leaks and ANY exhaust leaks will hurt performance and cause issues for the PCM operating in closed loop. Your potential for oil leaks becomes far greater with the added plumbing for turbos. Oil changes should be more frequent due to the turbos relying on engine oil. Maintenance in general can become more time consuming with all of the added plumbing. Lag is also a reality in a turbo application. On the plus side, turbochargers make great mufflers and will be more efficient in higher RPM.
When it comes to the positive displacement superchargers, whether its the factory LSA blower or a Whipple, they fit truck use better. Self contained oiling requires almost no maintenance and no extra oil lines. No clutter to work around in the engine bay. The entire unit sits on top of the engine so packaging is simple and clean. No charge piping to leak or pop off. The only fabrication needed is an intake tube and the only things added to the engine bay are a couple water lines to a pump and remote mounted reservoir. No exhaust hot side to leak, crack welds, melt plug wires, etc. Vacuum operated internal bypass valve unlike old blowers, which means no loss of fuel economy and maintains perfect drivability. Boost is instantaneous when the throttle opens, you don't need a bunch of RPM to use it. Less heat produced in the engine bay is always a positive.
Post by: dave945 on December 05, 2019, 11:30:37 AM
:P
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Post by: Flyin6 on December 05, 2019, 05:13:34 PM
I’m sold. When are you dropping off the check, Don?soon!
:P
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Post by: Flyin6 on December 05, 2019, 05:58:47 PM
I listed the work axioms??
Rule number 1 reads:
Before one can work, one must first work, to be able to work
Remember that?
So I am trying to get the Suburban down to Nick's shop to start this amazing transition to happyville. Well I had that leaky hydroboost, remember that?
So today amidst taking a furniture delivery, running down a termite inspection, watching the speaker of the house declare war on our republic and democracy. I tried to repair the thing
The hydro boost
Now normally they leak out of the forward facing seal and are pretty easy to repair. Pop it out, split the case, pop out the old seal, wipe, install new seal, reassemble, reinstall and motor your happy but right along.
But mine was different
It was obviously leaking out of the rear input or plunger side.
I guess I knew that already, but for some reason. pulled it anyway. That's when I realized I couldn't just pull that plunger out, as the shaft/ball is staked to the piston shaft.
With no way to fix that, I went after a rebuilt AC Delco unit, and luckily I found one...In tijuana, Mexico!
So, yup, lost today, and now it looks like part of tomorrow as well. I had to opt to buy another brand, the O'reilly's brand of reman which is actually a Cardone company. So at 0930 in the morn, I get to start this grand experiment all over again.
And somewhere in the hours of tomorrow I need to cut another chord or two of firewood...
Yeeze...
Post by: Flyin6 on December 05, 2019, 06:03:14 PM
I may bolt it on, dunno, just to get the experience. But I am considering changing out the heads as well since the charger is made for LS3 and later square ports, and my 6.0 has the performance oriented 243 Cathedral port configuration heads.
There is an adapter to mate the two, but I'm thinking that is ganked up. Nick, who has done this may disagree, don't know, but a nice set of L92, LS3 or other performance head will make more power without all the shape shiftin' at mid port...
So, ya, stay tuned, we're gonna be makin some Christmas power.
Post by: Bigdave_185 on December 05, 2019, 06:53:20 PM
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Post by: TexasRedNeck on December 05, 2019, 07:09:39 PM
Just curious about mileage given some parasitic loss.
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Post by: JR on December 05, 2019, 07:22:14 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on December 06, 2019, 09:07:25 AM
I think everyone but Don was in for the SC from day one.JR, I liked the SC idea, but first of all, I am bound by some code which I do not fully understand to automatically disagree with any of you for no particularly good reason! :facepalm: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
Actually, I thought the SC would cost a bunch more than the turbo setup and not make nearly as much power.
But apparently, the SC makes a lot of power, and this being a truck, the right now torque is really what this heavy vehicle needs to make it fun and more useable, and mo-betterer at towing.
When the conversation with Nick started, it was like everything just clicked and the light bulb turned on. It suddenly just made sense, particularly with the fact that Nick knows these conversions and has the ability to tune and not take forever.
If I want the truck right and soon, then this is the answer I was looking for.
Post by: Nskaats on December 06, 2019, 09:26:52 AM
Nick. I recommended supercharging a while back so I’m on the same page. However just for curiosities sake is there a mpg difference between the super and a set of small parallels twin turbos? Sized right, which is no small feat, there is very little lag in the spool. I do agree that there is much more complexity which leads to problems like you mentioned long term with leaks etc.
Just curious about mileage given some parasitic loss.
There really isn't much of any significant parasitic loss on the blowers. The newer lobe designs are far more efficient in every way compared to the older models. The internal bypass valve that opens under vacuum helps tremendously so you're not actually compressing anything, which means almost no resistance. You can turn one of these blowers by hand with no effort at all. Even with all of the EPA nonsense and fuel mileage requirements the OEM's have been using these instead of turbos, so that should speak volumes.
Turbos are still great, but there is a tremendous amount of misinformation out there about them. Many still consider them to be "free" horsepower. They do create some exhaust restriction and have some parasitic loss. On an application where you want them to spool quickly, the smaller turbine housing doesn't help that. The biggest lie we see all over the internet is how you can throw a turbo system together on a beer budget and make a billion horsepower. In reality it's quite costly to do it RIGHT, especially if you need reliable and efficient power.
Post by: Bigdave_185 on December 06, 2019, 10:15:07 AM
The Good lord knows Don is hard on EVERYTHING!
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Post by: Flyin6 on December 06, 2019, 09:38:14 PM
I spent, what, half the day with Nick at his shop talking over this project along with about a hundred other things. I can report, he is just like us, in about every way. He has quite a story to tell, but that's for him in his time.
We went back and forth. Duramax?? 8.1 with a big blower? stock 6.0 with a blower?? Stroker with this or that cam and heads and blower.
This is what I think I/we are settling on. First of all, Nick volunteered to just show up at the house and fix the tune in the burb for now, just to get it driveable. That's so I can actually use the truck if I want to do something normal with it.
But the plan is shaping up like this:
He has a 6.2 Gen 4 truck long block sitting in the shop. It has an aluminum block and stronger rods and about the same mileage as my 6.0. It also has those darling L92 square port LS3 type heads on it stock!
So the plan would be to use that engine, and freshen it up. Send the heads off for a freshening and a CNC port job, decking, valve guides/seats and good springs. Bolt those on the 6.2 short block with studs, and install a BTR camshaft. Probably just swap out the oil pan, add a performance oil pump, stock timing chain and the other new bits here and there. Use an adapter for the reluctor wheel, eliminate the cylinder DOD and the VVT with adapters, then top with either a LSA TVS1900 or a maybe a larger 2.9L Magnuson supercharger.
HE would reuse my good 4l80E and converter and I would have a nice 6.0 for sale. He would dyno tune on this very advanced dyno he has which he says is the same one OEM uses to make somewhere from 500-600 RWHP with the nod toward torque and keeping the combo dead safe. He said the 6.2 bottom end would take the supercharger much better.
If I say go, he will order all the parts and get started on the motor. When all the parts get back to the shop, it will be wrench time. He feels it will take 1.5-2 weeks start to finish with me doing some of the work to help. Mostly grunt, cleaning/painting and so forth.
The story gets a little better, I think. Literally right across the parking lot is a powder coat and vinyl wrap shop, a good one. Nick took me over and I chatted with them some, and there is a possibility they may want to get involved in the burb project some. Who knows, since they can do any sort of custom wrap,even a pic of your favorite american flag, I just may have them do up something for the camper project.
So stay tuned, I guess we just started a new chapter in this ever evolving Burb build.
Nick, did I get this more or less correct?
Post by: KensAuto on December 07, 2019, 12:21:52 AM
..and Nick, please get it running right, for all of our wellbeing. Lord knows (and he surely does) what Big D would likely do if left alone in his current state of mind. We've heard everything from installing turbos to a Duramax swap here.
I dread the thought of that beautiful Burb going the way of the 'ol Dodge... scattered across the nation, like the ashes of a beloved hero. Naw, we don't want that.
No pressure Nick!
;)
Post by: Nskaats on December 07, 2019, 12:32:11 PM
I did reach out to Cam Motion as well to get a recommendation on this particular application. In many of our projects we end up going with a custom designed cam from Brian Tooley or Cam Motion instead of something off the shelf. These guys are excellent at what they do. Brian uses Cam Motion or Comp Cams to grind their cams. Both Comp and Cam Motion have perfected lobe design that allow us to do some really wild projects. We used one of my personal vehicles to work with BTR to experiment and develop what is now their off-the-shelf spring kit for high RPM use in LS engines. My engine uses hydraulic roller lifters, off-the-shelf pushrods, and stock rocker arms turning 8,500 RPM for the past two seasons with absolutely no maintenance or problems at all.
Post by: Flyin6 on December 07, 2019, 03:24:44 PM
I'll wait to see what their response is, then offer it publically.
But on the motor thing, I wanted to score the square port heads. With this 6.2 motor, those heads are already there. the send out to port and fix up, finishes that.
The short block is something I have been thinking about. So, I will be starting with a motor with 100K on the rotating assembly. I am asking myself if that makes sense. From what I have read, some people say that although the rods are better in the gen 4 motor, the pistons may be the weak link.
So that begs the question, should I upgrade the pistons to some forged units??? And if I am tearing down to do that, obviously, I would be replacing the bearings. If I had the motor torn down that far, then cam bearings should be replaced as well, I think
Now if I am going through all that business, why not drop a stroker kit in the bottom end which already has the pistons/rings, bearings, a nice forged crank and super strong rods? But not that I am there, I am adding a bunch of cost to the project and did that tip the scales too far and cause me to just stay with the cleaned up 100K short block???
And to further complicate things, why not just tear down and restroke the 6.0 block? It's iron and stronger than the 6.2 aluminum block...?!?!And if I went this direction, all I'd have to do is to purchase a ready made set of LS3 heads and be done with it.
I am presently stuck in this loop...
Lets discuss the merits of going further in the short block.
Post by: stlaser on December 07, 2019, 03:56:52 PM
Post by: JR on December 07, 2019, 04:26:50 PM
Doesn't really help low end at all and higher up your on boost?
I'd just get another iron block. Less down time and cheap.
Post by: Nskaats on December 07, 2019, 05:37:22 PM
So, I just sent a message to two members who had expressed interest in the 6.0 motor.
I'll wait to see what their response is, then offer it publically.
But on the motor thing, I wanted to score the square port heads. With this 6.2 motor, those heads are already there. the send out to port and fix up, finishes that.
The short block is something I have been thinking about. So, I will be starting with a motor with 100K on the rotating assembly. I am asking myself if that makes sense. From what I have read, some people say that although the rods are better in the gen 4 motor, the pistons may be the weak link.
So that begs the question, should I upgrade the pistons to some forged units??? And if I am tearing down to do that, obviously, I would be replacing the bearings. If I had the motor torn down that far, then cam bearings should be replaced as well, I think
Now if I am going through all that business, why not drop a stroker kit in the bottom end which already has the pistons/rings, bearings, a nice forged crank and super strong rods? But not that I am there, I am adding a bunch of cost to the project and did that tip the scales too far and cause me to just stay with the cleaned up 100K short block???
And to further complicate things, why not just tear down and restroke the 6.0 block? It's iron and stronger than the 6.2 aluminum block...?!?!And if I went this direction, all I'd have to do is to purchase a ready made set of LS3 heads and be done with it.
I am presently stuck in this loop...
Lets discuss the merits of going further in the short block.
I've never had any issues with pistons in them. Even at 1,000 plus horsepower if tuned properly.
The benefit of the 6.2 is the upgraded internals and it already has the better flowing heads that match the blower without any adapters. It wouldn't hurt to hit it with some new bearings while it's already on a stand. If you're replacing any hard parts, I'd do pistons and rods as a set since it'll need to be balanced anyway. And if you're already going to have to have it machined and balanced for a new set of pistons and rods, might as well buy a stroker kit while you're in there. These things snowball real quick. I don't see a need for it unless you're preparing to make some stupid power later on. If you're going to go that far into it, you are probably better off using what you have and just buying the rectangle port heads.
Post by: Nskaats on December 07, 2019, 05:39:38 PM
Question sure you asked, but why port the heads with a blower?
Doesn't really help low end at all and higher up your on boost?
I'd just get another iron block. Less down time and cheap.
Definitely not a necessary step, but they do appreciate it. The topic came up as Don mentioned having the heads decked and a fresh valve job. For the deal I get on CNC machining these heads, it's not that much more to do.
Post by: stlaser on December 07, 2019, 06:27:17 PM
Post by: Bob Smith on December 07, 2019, 07:31:54 PM
Post by: rpar86 on December 07, 2019, 09:25:36 PM
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Post by: JR on December 08, 2019, 01:11:13 AM
Must be a pilot thing.
Post by: TexasRedNeck on December 08, 2019, 07:18:57 AM
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Post by: Flyin6 on December 08, 2019, 09:20:14 AM
Don you still plan on having Nick tune what you have to get it running correctly before you decide on the rest of the project direction?Yes.
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Once I firmly decide which engine and what direction to go, Nick will clean up the current situation, then we will get to the business of making this new powerhouse.
Taking some time to settle on this is helping. Whereas my mind wants nothing less than a forged 408 stroker, big heads and 20 psi pushing 1000 ft lbs, taking time moderates all that
What I really need is the suburban to effortlessly tow the new camper which won't be all that heavy (Bob) and be a pleasure to drive around. So I may just hold my breath, grunt hard and decide on the most practical supercharged combination that makes sense.
I could, BTW, always throw a Texas Speed 408" short block in there later on...
Post by: Nskaats on December 08, 2019, 01:05:52 PM
I could, BTW, always throw a Texas Speed 408" short block in there later on...
Them's fighting words right there. If it tells you anything about quality, I have a separate liability waiver for any customer asking me to tune an engine with China Speed parts in it.
You'll also NEVER find a professional engine builder that uses or recommends anything from them. Lots of reasons for that.
Post by: TexasRedNeck on December 08, 2019, 10:39:13 PM
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Post by: rpar86 on December 08, 2019, 11:57:58 PM
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Post by: Nskaats on December 09, 2019, 04:22:48 AM
Nick. Not to junk up Dons thread but I have a 2018 denali with the 6.2. What’s the recipe for more hp?
Figure out your goals for the vehicle and a budget you want to work with. Easier to start from there. Could be talking cold sir and a tune or you could be talking big cubic inches and a blower, but it's usually somewhere in between and determined by budget.
Post by: Flyin6 on December 09, 2019, 09:31:15 AM
DOTs...NCO...Boneheads...Liberals...Democrats...Girlym...
So, anyway, I have the hydroboost unit off. I was going to replace it, but after looking further, have decided to continue with plan #1 and partially rebuild this one. I said it was leaking from the front, but on further examination, I cannot be completely sure. It was definitely leaking from the front, and I do after all have the rebuild kit laying around, so, I think I'll just throw the kit in the cleaned up old unit and see where that goes. Worse case, I pull the thing somewhere in the future and replace it anyway. And the local O'Reilly's manager, Anthony ordered a AC-Delco unit to stick on his shelf for me should I need it
(How cool is that?)
Post by: Flyin6 on December 09, 2019, 09:33:12 AM
Post by: Bigdave_185 on January 05, 2020, 12:34:23 AM
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Post by: Flyin6 on January 06, 2020, 09:26:50 AM
Well?Well, I put it all back together together.
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But
Point taken Dave. The rebuilding of the booster was covered in a thread over in the maintenance section. Following the overhaul, the unit was bolted back in bled and no more leak!
Post by: Nate on January 06, 2020, 10:22:42 AM
Post by: Bigdave_185 on January 06, 2020, 11:33:00 AM
brake booster aside don, did you let nick get a hold of it yet and get it straightened out?!
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Post by: Nate on January 06, 2020, 03:40:32 PM
Post by: Bigdave_185 on January 06, 2020, 04:33:36 PM
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/3o6Zt7g9nH1nFGeBcQ/giphy.gif)
This will suffice
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Post by: Flyin6 on January 06, 2020, 07:08:35 PM
Nick had an unexpected stay in the cardiac unit in the hospital.
I have texted him several times and didn't talk about the burb. Mostly I just wanted to check on his progress and if asked, maybe help out somewhere. He worked half a day, two days ago and I think today as well. He has asked about when he can do the first tune and just sort the current combo out. I told him this week, but I DO NOT want to overload or stress him.
We'll get to it!
Post by: Flyin6 on January 06, 2020, 07:14:16 PM
I removed the front mount battery to clear up some room for what is to come.
Both batteries were already tuckered out after being run down to zero so many times, so I traded both back in for replacements. The deep cycle is destined for the camper, and the new start bat is already installed in the aft tray. I sorted the electrical connections and simplified things as well.
And this is really strange. I took one battery back to COSTCO, and one to O'reillys and after exchanges and refunds I came out $79 ahead of what I actually spent on them last winter! I tried to point out the mistake, asking how it is possible to get more back than I spent in the first place, but the counter person pointed out the computer did the math. I tipped her some of the difference and went on with a big ole smile
Post by: Flyin6 on January 15, 2020, 09:29:56 PM
Made the decision to proceed with the supercharger. Nick Skaat will be doing all of this, my part is to drop it off and pick it up
So we are getting a LSA 1900 supercharger set up for 12 pounds of boost. The truck will also get a new cam which is a custom one off grind that Roger Vinci is in the middle of creating. A tad bit more duration, but not much and more lift, getting close to .600" with 115CL and a ground in 5 degree advance to take advantage of the pressurized environment.
The truck will also get dual fuel pumps, with fat wiring, larger injectors, LSA fuel rail and appropriate plumbing. Radiator style cooling for the air/liquid intercooler. We are going with a larger throttle body and will route the air intake to where the battery once was located. The truck will also be dual fuel compliant afterward running either gas or 85% alcohol.
We are converting the mass air system back to a simpler speed density setup where all of the stock mapping will get a rewrite. Finally it will get an additional wide band O2 sensor in the exhaust.
Parts are on order, being ordered or shipping as I write this. We are looking at bring it in for the teardown the first week in Feb. Hopefully it will start to see dyno tuning within a couple weeks of the start of wrenchin'
:likebutton:
Post by: Nate on January 15, 2020, 09:39:11 PM
Post by: TexasRedNeck on January 15, 2020, 10:12:21 PM
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Post by: Bigdave_185 on January 15, 2020, 10:22:54 PM
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Post by: stlaser on January 15, 2020, 10:44:37 PM
:likebutton:
Post by: JR on January 15, 2020, 11:34:50 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on January 16, 2020, 10:33:59 AM
But after the Obummer thing, the word change scares me about as much as some of youse do...;-)
And for the final act, the long range plan will be to build a 450 cu in stroker bottom end, put square port heads on it, and keep it all boosted with a not too big bump stick and drive it on into eternity...which for someone of my vintage, may not be all that far away...meanin' one of youse could score a pretty "dope" vehicle some day!
That's me thinkin' a-head...!
Post by: Flyin6 on January 16, 2020, 10:34:29 AM
I’m a dual fuel machine too. Red meat or whiskey....Keepin it simple...I like it!
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Post by: JR on January 16, 2020, 10:47:54 AM
Post by: TexasRedNeck on January 16, 2020, 07:24:01 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on January 16, 2020, 08:53:43 PM
He said 450. I want to see that.We've been talking about it some. Possible but spendy. 408" is cheap, 427 and beyond i need that beefy LSX block. But I intend this Suburban to be a technology leader and a lead the fleet, example of the larger overlander
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Post by: Flyin6 on January 25, 2020, 06:22:12 PM
Shouldn't be too much longer.
Post by: Flyin6 on January 28, 2020, 11:18:23 AM
That got me thinking
I have 37.5 gallons total capacity with a 31 gallon front (Main) tank and an aft supplemental 6.5 gallon tank
So, I went off looking to see if that 40 might fit my 2002 chassis, and found this link for a 42 gallon rear tank that fits a 1999 Suburban:
https://www.gastankdepot.com/igm43c-gas-tank-1998-99-suburban-gas-engine.html
That's just one generation older and a couple years different. If that would fit, I could increase from 37.5 up to 73 gallons which could increase my range to almost 200 miles!!!
Now, something I just said may not be true...
But I am going to look into this fuel tank business.
Post by: stlaser on January 28, 2020, 12:03:57 PM
Post by: JR on January 28, 2020, 12:07:06 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on January 29, 2020, 12:05:48 PM
Who would be driving with this mileage increase? Assuming your better half..... :popcorn:No, she has never driven it, prob never will
Post by: Flyin6 on January 29, 2020, 12:07:12 PM
Post by: Bigdave_185 on January 29, 2020, 02:25:44 PM
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Post by: JR on January 29, 2020, 06:22:26 PM
Post by: swbhobie16 on January 29, 2020, 07:39:13 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on January 29, 2020, 09:47:47 PM
What happened to them stickers you were gung-ho about?Got em in and they were buggered up. Like stuck to the tape, worthless!
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Post by: Flyin6 on January 29, 2020, 09:48:19 PM
Are those 35s?yessir
Post by: Flyin6 on January 29, 2020, 09:49:34 PM
don, can you get a 3 dimension measurement of the fuel tank in the burb? i think the inside width is the 3+3 frame is right around 28”. plus with a large single piece drive shaft (4” or so..?) that puts me at a max workable width of <12”. not sure i’ll be able to find one that narrow.. but i’m going to shop around and see what i come up with hahYou want me to measure the size of the rear fuel tank in my 2002 2500 Burb?
Post by: swbhobie16 on January 30, 2020, 07:33:09 AM
Post by: Flyin6 on February 12, 2020, 09:58:32 AM
So the Supercharger was shipped this past Monday. Should arrive in a couple days. Nick reports he has most of the stuff for the conversion sitting on shelves.
To review the Burb will be upgraded with:
R&D LSA Supercharger System with ZL1 lid - Cathedral adapters - 12 ps
NGK BR7EF Plugs
Racetronix DIYDPK-SUV Kit (Fuel pumps)
Upgraded fuel lines DSX Flex Fuel Kit
Deatschwerks 17U-26-0095-8 - 95 Lb/Hr Injector
GM 3 Bar MAP Sensor
Intake Tube Components and Powder Coat
Supercharger cam
90mm throttle body
Custom speed density tune (Lose the MAF!)
Chassis dynamometer tune
Big smiley face behind the steering wheel
Now all this will bring me to the last thing I may need to change up
The truck's 4.88 gears are too tall with the 35" tires
So I may be thinking about a gear change to 4.56 or a swap to 37" tires or both...dunno yet
Target time to do the supercharger install is next week
Post by: JR on February 12, 2020, 11:00:36 AM
Post by: EL TATE on February 12, 2020, 11:40:00 AM
I sure like the 4.56 with 35s, hope I don't loose much with 37s, but you have those and like em too.
What's the transmission again JR? You can enter gear ratio, tire size speed and trans ratio and even look up each speed's respective ratios in any transmission here: https://www.randysworldwide.com/calculators/transmission-ratio-rpm then you can KNOW what your power curve will look like w/ 37" rubber.
Post by: swbhobie16 on February 12, 2020, 11:41:08 AM
I sure like the 4.56 with 35s, hope I don't loose much with 37s, but you have those and like em too.
since i was ignored on tank size i feel ok DOT’ing this. you have 4.56 and 35s in the LBZ? i was hoping for 4.10 and 35-37s on the 3+3. think i’ll be too far out of range on the 6 speed allison?
i just think lots of modern ‘truck builders’ are running 35-37s on factory 3.73 gears..
Post by: JR on February 12, 2020, 12:25:37 PM
Now saying that, I love the low end power but think cruzing RPM is a little high over 70 on my setup and think the 37s will help there without hurting low end much.
Post by: Flyin6 on February 12, 2020, 07:17:20 PM
Thanks Tater
Current setup, 4.88's and 35" tires = 2460 @ 70 mph
Going to a 37" tire = 2327 RPM @ 70 mph
Changing to a 4.56 and keeping the 35" tire size = 2298 @ 70 mph
JR, you still have that 9.25 front diff with the 4.56's?
Post by: TexasRedNeck on February 14, 2020, 05:39:45 PM
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Post by: JR on February 14, 2020, 08:44:01 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on February 15, 2020, 10:15:31 AM
Looking at the pics I think it would look better on 37sLooks obviously aren't what I am after, but the 37" tire question is not off the table at this point. And one of the reasons happen to be those inexpensive Federal Couragia tires I purchased for my D-Max truck. Now with some miles on them they are still showing to be really great tires. How these folks sell them for $240 each and they handle better than the $400 tires is a mystery. I cannot give high marks to the BFG mud terrain tires, or the Toyo open country offerings as well. No tire I have had is any better than these Federals and with the lower cost than another gear swap, the tire option, lowering my RPM into usable ranges is tempting.
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I am going to talk to Nick about doing a 6L90 swap since that could get me to a .67 ratio in sixth. Currently I have a .75. The truck is stable at 70 which has me thinking, I may want to plan around a cruise speed between 70-75. With the blower huffing when necessary, I think I'd appreciate a 2150ish rpm cruise over the 2400 ish cruise I now have.
In any event, I won't make any decisions until after I see how the supercharged and tuned truck runs/handles.
Oh and apparently the supercharger is in, so the burb should be going in soon for the change up
Post by: Bigdave_185 on February 15, 2020, 10:29:43 AM
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Post by: Flyin6 on February 15, 2020, 11:11:12 AM
Did you ever hear anything back from the black bear company? Anything after your last email to them about lack of customer service?Sure did,
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They said that the tune was correct, I disagreed, and they said they were going to send another tune. I pointed out that it had been months, and they responded that they have a large customer base and lots of work. I pointed out that if they can't write tunes in a reasonable length of time, what good is the service. They think they are doing OK, I think their service is awful, and their tunes have many mistakes.
We agreed to disagree, and I said I would no longer be doing business with them...EOM
Post by: Bigdave_185 on February 15, 2020, 11:33:48 AM
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Post by: Flyin6 on February 15, 2020, 11:40:13 AM
With this mail order model, the system has to make a bunch of assumptions, there is poor interaction between the end user and Justin, and the time lag is untenable. I lost the use of my vehicle for a couple seasons because of this lack of responsiveness, and that is a huge fail in terms of customer support.
I wish him well in future endeavors.
Post by: Flyin6 on February 24, 2020, 12:11:33 PM
Today it went to Nick's shop to begin the teardown and installation of a bunch of new stuff.
Here is the new 1900 Eaton Supercharger. The gentleman who built this one bought up the last of Eaton's castings, and from them he assembles new superchargers on a one-per basis. This one features a 2.4" pulley to produce 12 psi. Nick feels that along with the tune and new cam, the truck should push in excess of 500 ft lbs to the tires which would be around double what a stocker would make.
Post by: Flyin6 on February 24, 2020, 12:13:29 PM
You can see all sorts of things, especially the new fuel rail/lines
Post by: Flyin6 on February 24, 2020, 12:14:58 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on February 24, 2020, 12:16:13 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on February 24, 2020, 12:18:03 PM
Nick is rockin' his "Deer in the headlights" look!
Post by: Flyin6 on February 24, 2020, 12:20:07 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on February 24, 2020, 12:22:02 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on February 24, 2020, 12:24:11 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on February 24, 2020, 12:25:49 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on February 24, 2020, 12:26:43 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on February 24, 2020, 12:27:42 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on February 24, 2020, 12:28:39 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on February 24, 2020, 12:30:20 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on February 24, 2020, 12:31:45 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on February 24, 2020, 12:33:04 PM
Post by: JR on February 24, 2020, 12:33:45 PM
Those screw comp are supposed to be smooth and produce less heat.
So he can actually tune on the dyno, not just mail you a tune months later?
Will you have dial a tune for diff fuel or uses? Makes sense with towing, cruising or tackling mulch beds.
Post by: Flyin6 on February 24, 2020, 02:26:48 PM
Lots of nice parts,,,, :likebutton: Are you there to help?
Nope, not this time. As the Texas red neck said, I'm just here to write the checks
Those screw comp are supposed to be smooth and produce less heat.
Dunno. I can say it sure looks potent and well built. Nick was saying on a lifted truck and the gears driving it under boost was going to get pretty sporty. I suspect it will run a little better than it does right now
So he can actually tune on the dyno, not just mail you a tune months later?
Yes. This time will be the real deal. He makes a change and evaluates how it responds on the dyno.
Will you have dial a tune for diff fuel or uses? Makes sense with towing, cruising or tackling mulch beds.
Just the MBT (Mulch bed tune) That should cover the most likely hazardous situation I'll ever encounter!
Post by: Nate on February 24, 2020, 11:54:58 PM
Post by: TexasRedNeck on February 25, 2020, 06:41:02 AM
:beercheers:Almost forgot there was a build going on. What’s the ETA on delivery?
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Post by: Nate on February 25, 2020, 07:47:05 AM
:beercheers:Almost forgot that this build is still going on. What’s the ETA on delivery?
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Post by: Flyin6 on February 25, 2020, 08:16:55 AM
:beercheers:Almost forgot there was a build going on. What’s the ETA on delivery? Soft...couple of weeks
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Post by: Flyin6 on February 25, 2020, 09:47:52 PM
I plan to visit tomorrow just before lunch to get some pics
Post by: Bigdave_185 on February 25, 2020, 10:52:25 PM
At this rate your tires will still be in warranty and they won’t be dry rotted
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Post by: JR on February 26, 2020, 12:39:30 AM
Post by: Nskaats on February 26, 2020, 12:07:04 PM
*Don't worry, the cam gets covered in Lucas assembly lube as it goes in. The stuff is nasty so we put it on as we go instead of getting it all over
Post by: JR on February 26, 2020, 12:22:35 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on February 26, 2020, 01:47:56 PM
They are motoring right along
Post by: Flyin6 on February 26, 2020, 01:49:26 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on February 26, 2020, 01:50:07 PM
Post by: KensAuto on February 26, 2020, 01:54:50 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on February 26, 2020, 01:56:42 PM
Note that Nick has developed a system that is efficient, where he orders all the parts and awaits their arrival. He will begin only after getting everything he needs. That's smart
Notice the sticky paper on the fender to prevent the always occuring scratching: Attention to detail, and caring for customers vehicle.
While we talked Preston continued to bolt things up. I noticed his attention to detail while he worked. He would install a bolt or group of bolts, then run them down with the electric impact, but only until they were mostly screwed in. Then he would switch to a ratchet to apply the final tightening to the fastener. This is something that involves an extra step to every procedure a he could save time by just using the electric impact to finish, but he prefers to "Feel" the bolt come up to proper tightness. That's attention to detail, extra care, and shows a guy who is more of a professional and less of a "git er dun" kind of person.
I like what I see so far.
Post by: Flyin6 on February 26, 2020, 01:57:33 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on February 26, 2020, 01:58:49 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on February 26, 2020, 01:59:59 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on February 26, 2020, 02:01:27 PM
Yes, that is a LS transplanted Volvo!
Post by: Flyin6 on February 26, 2020, 02:02:55 PM
Post by: EL TATE on February 26, 2020, 02:15:48 PM
Personally, that lowered hotrod is hideous. Now, having said that, it is artfully created. Owned by a local artist, it is a rolling statement to true talent and is sitting on a great chassis and suspension.
I'm not a fan of the rat-rod hype either Don, but it does look really well put together that being said.
Post by: TexasRedNeck on February 26, 2020, 03:06:54 PM
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Post by: Nskaats on February 26, 2020, 03:35:46 PM
Post by: swbhobie16 on February 26, 2020, 05:42:17 PM
I guess the Friday plan got pushed back. I have ONE quick connect fuel line fitting that was scheduled for delivery Friday and changed to Monday. Ain't that how it always goes? Thanks FedEx!
if that’s the only hiccup.. id chalk that up to a win. besides. getting a build done on a single calendar page is something just unheard of here.
Post by: KensAuto on February 26, 2020, 05:58:47 PM
I guess the Friday plan got pushed back. I have ONE quick connect fuel line fitting that was scheduled for delivery Friday and changed to Monday. Ain't that how it always goes? Thanks FedEx!I'd consider that pretty good considering having that old man leaning over your shoulder all week.
Sorry Don.
Post by: dave945 on February 26, 2020, 06:45:10 PM
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Post by: Bigdave_185 on February 26, 2020, 08:47:25 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on February 26, 2020, 08:59:53 PM
I’m drooling over the 68 Camero69
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Post by: Flyin6 on February 26, 2020, 09:01:41 PM
I'll take some detail shots of it next time I'm there. Things like the hammered copper floor, spider web intake, and other things give it that oddball appealPersonally, that lowered hotrod is hideous. Now, having said that, it is artfully created. Owned by a local artist, it is a rolling statement to true talent and is sitting on a great chassis and suspension.
I'm not a fan of the rat-rod hype either Don, but it does look really well put together that being said.
Post by: JR on February 26, 2020, 09:39:09 PM
Post by: stlaser on February 26, 2020, 11:34:29 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on February 28, 2020, 09:06:16 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on February 28, 2020, 09:07:46 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on February 28, 2020, 09:09:05 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on February 28, 2020, 09:10:05 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on February 28, 2020, 09:11:59 PM
Post by: Bigdave_185 on March 03, 2020, 09:25:21 AM
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Post by: Flyin6 on March 03, 2020, 12:30:00 PM
Not far away, he just about has this thing wrapped up
Post by: TexasRedNeck on March 03, 2020, 01:13:27 PM
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Post by: Nskaats on March 03, 2020, 07:37:22 PM
Next on the list is getting it onto the other lift to drop the tank and do the fuel pumps and wiring harness. Intake tube was fabricated today and went across the street to powder coat. We'll need to find a longer throttle cable and air filter as well.
Post by: Flyin6 on March 03, 2020, 09:37:54 PM
I thought the fuel pump thing was done, but apparently not, so I stand corrected.
Battery: It is only maybe two months old if that. Something is draining it, perhaps that new amp or sub woofer I wired in. Not sure if those things stay on or cycle with the ignition switch. The old battery, which was new too, would die in just a few days, and I replaced it, but now the same sort of thing seems to point to some sort of small load constantly draining the battery...
Post by: Flyin6 on March 03, 2020, 09:42:23 PM
https://www.facebook.com/skaatsprecision/videos/651002325471359/
Post by: Bigdave_185 on March 03, 2020, 10:21:19 PM
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Post by: KensAuto on March 03, 2020, 10:24:22 PM
Post by: TexasRedNeck on March 04, 2020, 08:26:04 AM
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Post by: Nskaats on March 04, 2020, 08:36:54 AM
And I need to make a correction.
I thought the fuel pump thing was done, but apparently not, so I stand corrected.
Battery: It is only maybe two months old if that. Something is draining it, perhaps that new amp or sub woofer I wired in. Not sure if those things stay on or cycle with the ignition switch. The old battery, which was new too, would die in just a few days, and I replaced it, but now the same sort of thing seems to point to some sort of small load constantly draining the battery...
I had the battery on charger all night and it's showing a full charge, but no power anywhere. I'm leaning toward one of your main fuses or relay up front.
Post by: EL TATE on March 04, 2020, 10:17:39 AM
And I need to make a correction.
I thought the fuel pump thing was done, but apparently not, so I stand corrected.
Battery: It is only maybe two months old if that. Something is draining it, perhaps that new amp or sub woofer I wired in. Not sure if those things stay on or cycle with the ignition switch. The old battery, which was new too, would die in just a few days, and I replaced it, but now the same sort of thing seems to point to some sort of small load constantly draining the battery...
I had the battery on charger all night and it's showing a full charge, but no power anywhere. I'm leaning toward one of your main fuses or relay up front.
Nick,
take a look at the air ride suspension fuse if it has one. if it's been deleted and the fuse is still in the block it'll pull when the level sensor engages, thinking it needs to engage the compressor, or lack thereof. When I went through my engine swap on the 04 I chased battery draw for a solid week until I discovered that little gem.
Also, if this had the factory Bose system, that amp is relatively complicated and linked in with the main GPS and other systems than just sound. could just be tied into something that's not keyed power. just my $0.02
Post by: Nskaats on March 04, 2020, 06:42:56 PM
Nick,
take a look at the air ride suspension fuse if it has one. if it's been deleted and the fuse is still in the block it'll pull when the level sensor engages, thinking it needs to engage the compressor, or lack thereof. When I went through my engine swap on the 04 I chased battery draw for a solid week until I discovered that little gem.
Also, if this had the factory Bose system, that amp is relatively complicated and linked in with the main GPS and other systems than just sound. could just be tied into something that's not keyed power. just my $0.02
Good info to have on the air ride. I never thought of that. Of the billions of trucks we've had in here, I can't remember ever having one other than mine with the AutoRide and it's still intact....for now.
Post by: JR on March 04, 2020, 06:50:41 PM
Post by: Bigdave_185 on March 04, 2020, 07:17:30 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on March 05, 2020, 08:29:34 AM
Don’t forget the wooden fuse block distribution blockIf wood works for welding tables, it'll work for fuses and other hot things 8-0
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Post by: Bigdave_185 on March 05, 2020, 09:22:42 AM
Looking forward to an excuse to go back to Moab this summer. Let’s all make it happen
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Post by: Flyin6 on March 05, 2020, 12:51:36 PM
Well if it’s been a proven method I guess we can look past it ;)Well, if all goes as planned we are pulling pitch from here the last of May and will see South Dakota, Wyoming, and likely Utah probably late the second week in June I'd guess.
Looking forward to an excuse to go back to Moab this summer. Let’s all make it happen
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Oh, and stopped over the shop for a quick look this morning. The fuel tank is out and parts prepositioned for the swap around. Nick was about to do the swap when I was there, but someone was chewing off his ear. I have seen this before...same person. I recall, that's what I hated about being in business. Same people come around to be friends that you don't need. (Thinking: Get a life). Anyway, he thinks the throttle cable (It needs a longer one) will be the only holdup after the fuel system mod
Post by: KensAuto on March 05, 2020, 08:15:37 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on March 06, 2020, 01:48:06 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on March 06, 2020, 01:49:28 PM
Post by: JR on March 06, 2020, 02:21:20 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on March 06, 2020, 09:11:10 PM
close,,,,,,,,,:-)
Post by: Flyin6 on March 11, 2020, 04:53:59 PM
I do not think it has seen the chassis dyno yet.
He said that the E85 sensor was working, so that cat is in the bag as well.
Ken will be disappointed to hear that the factory radiator was replaced with a new one from somebody. I did not look to see if it had the factory petcock drain...
Post by: TexasRedNeck on March 11, 2020, 05:11:36 PM
https://youtu.be/RUquK_6WIjk?t=13
Post by: Flyin6 on March 11, 2020, 05:22:59 PM
He says it IS stuck in 4wd :-((
So much for a clean pump rub fix!!!
He also sez it's pretty peppy
Difficult to convert dyno numbers to actual. He says that tire weight and the mass of the D80 skew number a bunch. He was trying to calculate the difference between mine and stock, but D80 will remain an unknown.
Translation: Dyno numbers will not be relative to real world. He will just look for improving numbas, not compare to other engines. He did say a stock LQ4 was around 300 crank and 220-230 rear wheel. I told him I needed at least 125 rear wheel 8-0
Post by: KensAuto on March 12, 2020, 10:32:10 AM
Post by: EL TATE on March 12, 2020, 10:43:13 AM
Do you think it's been in 4wd this whole time? Maybe that's one (smaller) factor that was causing it to be doggie?
Beat me to it.
Post by: dave945 on March 12, 2020, 05:24:58 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on March 12, 2020, 07:23:36 PM
Do you think it's been in 4wd this whole time? Maybe that's one (smaller) factor that was causing it to be doggie?Yes, I do think it has been in 4WD the whole time
I've heard the front drive shaft and felt the high freq vib from it turning and have long suspected I was in 4WD, but now we know
Nick pulled the front shaft and did some dyno tuning
And we have numbers...Anyone interested???
Post by: TexasRedNeck on March 12, 2020, 07:56:45 PM
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Post by: JR on March 12, 2020, 08:32:22 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on March 12, 2020, 08:43:01 PM
1st pull 450HP and 482 ft/lbs at the wheels
Then 469HP/494TQ RW
making 442 tq@2360 rpm, 476 tq @2800, then holds 500 to 4400 and a gradual taper to 440 near redline
all on pump gas with a bit of ethanol
corrected for driveline losses it makes 642hp and 676 torque
A stock LQ4 burb puts down 230-240 Rear wheel HP
Great job Nick/Preston!
that should pull a 3k camper!
Post by: Bigdave_185 on March 12, 2020, 08:53:50 PM
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Post by: JR on March 12, 2020, 08:59:37 PM
Look out mulch beds!!!!!
Post by: Flyin6 on March 12, 2020, 09:04:17 PM
Post by: swbhobie16 on March 12, 2020, 09:05:50 PM
:grin:
Post by: TexasRedNeck on March 12, 2020, 09:21:58 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on March 12, 2020, 09:24:11 PM
That’s a pretty flat torque curve.We noticed!
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That's diesel like torque from a decade or so in the past.
That should be a great towing platform
Post by: swbhobie16 on March 12, 2020, 09:28:35 PM
so when do you get to do some seat dyno runs??
Post by: TexasRedNeck on March 12, 2020, 09:34:11 PM
Can’t wait to see the smile on your face when you take it for your first spin. Hopefully not like that wheelie incident....
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Post by: KensAuto on March 12, 2020, 09:35:55 PM
Post by: BobbyB on March 12, 2020, 09:36:10 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on March 12, 2020, 10:03:00 PM
nothing quite like some forced induction.Not for a little while
so when do you get to do some seat dyno runs??
Since it was stuck in 4WD and I fiddled with the case, and another mechanic replaced a seal, I;m not fooling with it. Tomorrow it goes to a nearby performance transmission shop to get that case repaired. After that it will be FMC
Post by: Flyin6 on March 12, 2020, 10:05:30 PM
And
Get some of the weight off my shoulders and allow me to stay on the camper project and bring that home as well.
Post by: dave945 on March 12, 2020, 10:56:20 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on March 12, 2020, 11:43:58 PM
I think this COVID-19 thing is about to put a damper on everyone's plans. I see where loads of businesses are closing their doors, schools closing their doors, and this national guard deployment to isolate that town in New York is a bit unsettling. Preview to something larger?? Martial law in areas??
Should any of that happen, well who knows what the vacation season this year will look like.
Post by: Nskaats on March 13, 2020, 12:59:25 PM
Post by: dave945 on March 13, 2020, 01:09:51 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on March 13, 2020, 01:58:12 PM
I want that in my K5, but I guess I need to drop an LS engine in it first.Nick has a couple gathering dust in his shop. Nice 6.2 sitting behind his daytona
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Post by: dave945 on March 13, 2020, 02:10:51 PM
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Post by: Nate on March 13, 2020, 02:16:32 PM
Maybe I need to stop down and say hi. ;). It’s the neighborly thing to do, helping a fellow real man to clean out the excess engines in his shop.
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Just dont get sticker shock at all of the digits before the decimal point! :shocked:
Post by: rpar86 on March 13, 2020, 05:43:53 PM
Awesome news on the burb, though!
Post by: Flyin6 on March 13, 2020, 09:01:59 PM
The burb was taken to the transmission shop. We confirmed it is stuck in 4wd, so I probably cooked something inside the thing or assembled it incorrectly, dunno.
But the time to fret with this thing is past. Again, I'll leave it to the pros. They will get to it next week I am told
Post by: KensAuto on March 13, 2020, 10:16:42 PM
Post by: swbhobie16 on March 14, 2020, 09:30:57 AM
Probably something simple Don, like the motor encoder. If you did something terribly wrong it would've grenaded by now.
reassuring words.. :beercheers:
Post by: Flyin6 on March 14, 2020, 10:53:53 AM
Probably something simple Don, like the motor encoder. If you did something terribly wrong it would've grenaded by now.Yea, probably so
But it's time to shove this thing into the end zone
Post by: EL TATE on March 16, 2020, 11:36:35 AM
Schools just closed here in Kintuckee as well. Likely for the rest of this school year.
The burb was taken to the transmission shop. We confirmed it is stuck in 4wd, so I probably cooked something inside the thing or assembled it incorrectly, dunno.
But the time to fret with this thing is past. Again, I'll leave it to the pros. They will get to it next week I am told
could be a very simple clocking of the shift motor. they have to be installed a certain way that I can't recall at the moment, but you might mention to them before the dig too deep.
just noticed Ken's comment AFTER I posted this... looks like I'm the :knucklehead:
Post by: Flyin6 on March 16, 2020, 08:13:34 PM
Probably something simple Don, like the motor encoder. If you did something terribly wrong it would've grenaded by now.Ken/Tate
I don't recall, but does my transfer, which I seem to recall is the 246, have internal clutches? The guys at the transmission shop said it may have "coned the clutches" due to heat which would force it into 4WD Hi. They made that comment before ever seeing the vehicle, as in speculating what might have happened.
Post by: Sammconn on March 16, 2020, 08:42:04 PM
I believe that is the variant that has the clutches.
Otherwise positive engagement on the non autos.
Post by: KensAuto on March 16, 2020, 09:03:58 PM
Interesting they went straight to that theory instead of the motor/electrical.
Post by: JR on March 16, 2020, 09:19:38 PM
Post by: KensAuto on March 16, 2020, 11:18:46 PM
Post by: EL TATE on March 17, 2020, 11:15:50 AM
The shift motor should be removed from the transfer case in the 2Hi position. If for some reason it was not possible to shift the transfer case to 2Hi before removing the motor you can adjust the alignment of the motor by unlocking the shift motor to align it to the transfer case. Use a 9 volt battery and attach the positive side of the battery to the orange lead on the motor and the negative side to the tan lead. You should then hear a click from the motor and be able to turn the shift shaft on the motor. Be careful not to turn the shaft very far or you may cause internal damage to the motor.
Post by: KensAuto on March 17, 2020, 02:42:33 PM
likely it was in 4hi when the motor was removed:Took you long enough^^^
The shift motor should be removed from the transfer case in the 2Hi position. If for some reason it was not possible to shift the transfer case to 2Hi before removing the motor you can adjust the alignment of the motor by unlocking the shift motor to align it to the transfer case. Use a 9 volt battery and attach the positive side of the battery to the orange lead on the motor and the negative side to the tan lead. You should then hear a click from the motor and be able to turn the shift shaft on the motor. Be careful not to turn the shaft very far or you may cause internal damage to the motor.
Post by: Bigdave_185 on March 17, 2020, 04:54:38 PM
Leave the man alone, he was ordering me parts lollikely it was in 4hi when the motor was removed:Took you long enough^^^
The shift motor should be removed from the transfer case in the 2Hi position. If for some reason it was not possible to shift the transfer case to 2Hi before removing the motor you can adjust the alignment of the motor by unlocking the shift motor to align it to the transfer case. Use a 9 volt battery and attach the positive side of the battery to the orange lead on the motor and the negative side to the tan lead. You should then hear a click from the motor and be able to turn the shift shaft on the motor. Be careful not to turn the shaft very far or you may cause internal damage to the motor.
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Post by: Flyin6 on March 17, 2020, 06:56:07 PM
I didn't think the 3/4 tons had a 246, but I also recall Tate correcting me on this build. A np246 has clutches.I asked him about clocking the motor, but he said that he thought they just bolted in in a fixed position. In any event, I don't think I removed that during my quickie rebuild.
Interesting they went straight to that theory instead of the motor/electrical.
And yes, this Burb has the autotrac and a NP246
Post by: Flyin6 on March 17, 2020, 06:58:55 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on March 19, 2020, 12:56:38 AM
On another topic, Nick texted me today with some interesting information. He just had a service guy from Mustang check out his dynamometer. And guess what? Its calibration was off to the low side. Nick texted me to let me know that my Suburban actually made more power than the chart had shown, by some percentage that he was not sure of. Well it won't take very much for that truck to be putting over 500 to the pavement and that is pretty impressive. That would also mean the thing is near or over 700 at the crank.
He asked me to bring it back down for a few more pulls when it gets fixed.
Post by: JR on March 19, 2020, 03:35:08 AM
Post by: cj7ox on March 19, 2020, 11:39:08 AM
:likebutton:
Post by: Bigdave_185 on March 19, 2020, 01:38:38 PM
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Post by: JR on March 19, 2020, 02:48:41 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on March 19, 2020, 10:57:32 PM
So I learned this from the Canadair jet I am type rated to fly. Inside the main tank is a circular fixture with inlet holes. That tank inside a tank holds six gallons and is just gravity fed. It prevents fuel starvation of those CF-34's when they spin up and make 14,400 pounds of thrust. The jet can accelerate right along, and the supply tank prevents the engine fuel intake from being uncovered.
Nick explained that on these trucks I need to keep the tank at 1/2 or better of rapid acceleration would cause the dual pumps inlets to become uncovered and the motor to get defueled.
But for now, I just want to get it driveable and completely serviceable.
Post by: Bigdave_185 on March 19, 2020, 11:54:45 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200320/6b410360bb496877be8808ac71c53ff2.jpg)
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Post by: KensAuto on March 20, 2020, 12:06:03 AM
https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/hydramat/hydramats/
Post by: Flyin6 on March 20, 2020, 07:58:49 PM
This is the latest and greatest Don:First of all, Dave I assume you are kidding...Nuff said
https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/hydramat/hydramats/
Ken, didn't know about those. Gonna show Nick.
But welding up a jet type tank inside a tank would be super simple.
I need to learn how to weld aluminum. I figure I'd learn fabbing up the fuel tank for the burb. But that's later on, after COVID-19, after the trip (If its possible), after catching up at the farm, after the easter bunny, and maybe after santa claus!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on March 22, 2020, 10:43:50 AM
Get one of these. Apparently made in the same neighborhood as The Hippy lives in
https://earthroamer.com/lti-2/
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Post by: Bigdave_185 on March 22, 2020, 10:56:10 AM
$600k-7^
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Post by: stlaser on March 22, 2020, 11:04:56 AM
Sell it Don.
Get one of these. Apparently made in the same neighborhood as The Hippy lives in
https://earthroamer.com/lti-2/
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Built 1/4 mile from my shop, they actually rent spaces in the facility where my shop is and charge clients for storage. Owner is not somebody I would associate with, however they have some pretty talented guys who build these they are like the rest of us around here.
Post by: TexasRedNeck on March 22, 2020, 02:24:30 PM
Did you see a price tag on that tex?I did. They are obviously smoking the local whacky tobaccy. That’s 500k to drop a camper on the back of a Furd
$600k-7^
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That price tag is getting close to serious motor coach territory.
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Post by: stlaser on March 22, 2020, 03:30:03 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on March 22, 2020, 06:07:15 PM
Sell it Don.Disapproved
Get one of these. Apparently made in the same neighborhood as The Hippy lives in
https://earthroamer.com/lti-2/
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Apply later for final disapproval!
Look at the departure angle on that thing...what 3 degrees???
Like it though. but the $650,000-$700,000 is a bit much
Post by: dave945 on March 22, 2020, 07:21:39 PM
Unfortunately, for $700,000, it wouldn’t even fit half the family. Guess I’ll have to spend $700k and get a school bus retrofitted for 4wd and defensive capabilities.Sell it Don.Disapproved
Get one of these. Apparently made in the same neighborhood as The Hippy lives in
https://earthroamer.com/lti-2/
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Apply later for final disapproval!
Look at the departure angle on that thing...what 3 degrees???
Like it though. but the $650,000-$700,000 is a bit much
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Post by: Flyin6 on March 24, 2020, 11:20:39 AM
He owns SS Transmissions in Alexandria, KY.
HE said that the transfer case was assembled correctly, and that it is staying locked in 4WD
I am thinking it always was, as in even when I purchased it. He said the insides were perfect and the clutches looked like new.
He did find a C-Clip "Wavy-spring" thing that he suspects may have settled some. If it were working, then the clutch pack would remain forced out of the "cogs" in the case and the thing would spin freely (2WD)
But it is allowing the clutch drum to just settle into the case keeping the whole thing engaged in 4WD. So hunt is on for another wavy-spring-C-Clip.
Anyone ever heard of such a thing in a NP246 case?
Post by: EL TATE on March 24, 2020, 02:43:21 PM
OK, word from John this morning.
He owns SS Transmissions in Alexandria, KY.
HE said that the transfer case was assembled correctly, and that it is staying locked in 4WD
I am thinking it always was, as in even when I purchased it. He said the insides were perfect and the clutches looked like new.
He did find a C-Clip "Wavy-spring" thing that he suspects may have settled some. If it were working, then the clutch pack would remain forced out of the "cogs" in the case and the thing would spin freely (2WD)
But it is allowing the clutch drum to just settle into the case keeping the whole thing engaged in 4WD. So hunt is on for another wavy-spring-C-Clip.
Anyone ever heard of such a thing in a NP246 case?
4l60 or 4l80 trans on this pig? find the image that matches your description and I'll see if I have it or where you can get it.
Post by: Flyin6 on March 24, 2020, 07:54:59 PM
4L80EOK, word from John this morning.
He owns SS Transmissions in Alexandria, KY.
HE said that the transfer case was assembled correctly, and that it is staying locked in 4WD
I am thinking it always was, as in even when I purchased it. He said the insides were perfect and the clutches looked like new.
He did find a C-Clip "Wavy-spring" thing that he suspects may have settled some. If it were working, then the clutch pack would remain forced out of the "cogs" in the case and the thing would spin freely (2WD)
But it is allowing the clutch drum to just settle into the case keeping the whole thing engaged in 4WD. So hunt is on for another wavy-spring-C-Clip.
Anyone ever heard of such a thing in a NP246 case?
4l60 or 4l80 trans on this pig? find the image that matches your description and I'll see if I have it or where you can get it.
But
Not a transmission part, a transfer case wavy clip thing-ah-ma-gig
Post by: dave945 on March 24, 2020, 08:14:52 PM
This part matches Don’s technical description:4L80EOK, word from John this morning.
He owns SS Transmissions in Alexandria, KY.
HE said that the transfer case was assembled correctly, and that it is staying locked in 4WD
I am thinking it always was, as in even when I purchased it. He said the insides were perfect and the clutches looked like new.
He did find a C-Clip "Wavy-spring" thing that he suspects may have settled some. If it were working, then the clutch pack would remain forced out of the "cogs" in the case and the thing would spin freely (2WD)
But it is allowing the clutch drum to just settle into the case keeping the whole thing engaged in 4WD. So hunt is on for another wavy-spring-C-Clip.
Anyone ever heard of such a thing in a NP246 case?
4l60 or 4l80 trans on this pig? find the image that matches your description and I'll see if I have it or where you can get it.
But
Not a transmission part, a transfer case wavy clip thing-ah-ma-gig
21-Pressure plate wavy apply spring
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Post by: Flyin6 on March 24, 2020, 09:59:13 PM
Is there a link or pic or part number?
Nothing was attached
Thanks
Post by: Dodge4x48499 on March 24, 2020, 10:08:08 PM
Item # Description Application Notes GM Part# ZBAG Part#
21. Pressure plate wavy apply spring 1998-2005 12474071 27746
Post by: Flyin6 on March 24, 2020, 10:10:48 PM
Item # Description Application Notes GM Part# ZBAG Part#Danke'
21. Pressure plate wavy apply spring 1998-2005 12474071 27746
John probably already has the thing and back together, but I'll let him know in the morning.
So any of you ever see a 246 transfer do this before?
Post by: KensAuto on March 25, 2020, 09:21:51 AM
Tate had the tcase diagram...he just wanted to know what transmission it had to verify transfer case. #21 in his diagram.4L80EOK, word from John this morning.
He owns SS Transmissions in Alexandria, KY.
HE said that the transfer case was assembled correctly, and that it is staying locked in 4WD
I am thinking it always was, as in even when I purchased it. He said the insides were perfect and the clutches looked like new.
He did find a C-Clip "Wavy-spring" thing that he suspects may have settled some. If it were working, then the clutch pack would remain forced out of the "cogs" in the case and the thing would spin freely (2WD)
But it is allowing the clutch drum to just settle into the case keeping the whole thing engaged in 4WD. So hunt is on for another wavy-spring-C-Clip.
Anyone ever heard of such a thing in a NP246 case?
4l60 or 4l80 trans on this pig? find the image that matches your description and I'll see if I have it or where you can get it.
But
Not a transmission part, a transfer case wavy clip thing-ah-ma-gig
Post by: Flyin6 on March 25, 2020, 09:01:00 PM
But here is the weird part. John checked the parts in my case against parts he had in the shop, and everything in my case was in his words, "Cherry." He thought my T-case looked new, and in the end he did nothing except reassemble and reinstall it.
And
It worked perfectly!
So, he has this theory that it was just very low on fluid and that was causing all the issues. When he drained the fluid, he did not get very much out, so it seems as though when Troy pulled it and installed the new seal, he did not add much fluid, only a couple pints. With the thing full of fluid, it now has no problems.
Man, what a head scratcher!
Post by: swbhobie16 on March 25, 2020, 09:15:56 PM
Post by: Bigdave_185 on March 25, 2020, 09:32:25 PM
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Post by: EL TATE on March 26, 2020, 12:18:32 PM
Tate had the tcase diagram...he just wanted to know what transmission it had to verify transfer case. #21 in his diagram.4L80EOK, word from John this morning.
He owns SS Transmissions in Alexandria, KY.
HE said that the transfer case was assembled correctly, and that it is staying locked in 4WD
I am thinking it always was, as in even when I purchased it. He said the insides were perfect and the clutches looked like new.
He did find a C-Clip "Wavy-spring" thing that he suspects may have settled some. If it were working, then the clutch pack would remain forced out of the "cogs" in the case and the thing would spin freely (2WD)
But it is allowing the clutch drum to just settle into the case keeping the whole thing engaged in 4WD. So hunt is on for another wavy-spring-C-Clip.
Anyone ever heard of such a thing in a NP246 case?
4l60 or 4l80 trans on this pig? find the image that matches your description and I'll see if I have it or where you can get it.
But
Not a transmission part, a transfer case wavy clip thing-ah-ma-gig
Correct Ken. I run into this with the shift motor clocking scenario, AND when my builders shim the clutch packs too tight. lack of fluid would mimic that same scenario for sure. Good to hear it Chief.
Post by: Flyin6 on March 26, 2020, 11:01:20 PM
It definitely felt more torquey, but there is something going on with the transmission shifting. It shifts way too soon and is easily shifted into OD around 30mph. It never builds any RPM, so I cannot feel the supercharger persee.
Nick said he can adjust those shift points so I'll get it back over to him in a couple of days
Post by: Flyin6 on March 30, 2020, 11:10:23 PM
It goes back to Nick in a day or so to let him finish the tuning
He did a good job on fitting everything. I like that intake tube powdercoat too!
Post by: Bigdave_185 on March 31, 2020, 12:24:13 AM
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Post by: KensAuto on March 31, 2020, 12:34:56 AM
So this is your block and lower parts from original motor, he just added upper Harward? RightDid you type Harward on purpose?
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Post by: rpar86 on March 31, 2020, 01:35:05 AM
Hardware?
Post by: Bigdave_185 on March 31, 2020, 01:36:36 AM
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Post by: dave945 on March 31, 2020, 07:22:22 AM
;)
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Post by: Nate on March 31, 2020, 08:10:15 AM
I installed some upper Harward on the blazer, but I had to remove it. In a very short time I ran over three cameras, two chainsaws and almost finished a project.
;)
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Post by: KensAuto on March 31, 2020, 09:16:07 AM
I installed some upper Harward on the blazer, but I had to remove it. In a very short time I ran over three cameras, two chainsaws and almost finished a project.Ohhh boyyyy
;)
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Post by: Flyin6 on March 31, 2020, 10:39:05 AM
We'll have a public hearing before banning him too!
And by the way, I have Harward installed all over the place here in ma home
Knuckleheads! :knucklehead:
Post by: Bigdave_185 on March 31, 2020, 12:13:49 PM
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Post by: cj7ox on March 31, 2020, 01:01:40 PM
THIS JUST IN! EXTENSIVE INVESTIGATION HAS DETERMINED THAT AN INDIVIDUAL NAMED "HARWARD" IS RESPONSIBLE FOR SABOTAGING ALL "BIG D'S" FAILED PROJECTS BY INSERTING GRAND IDEAS, POOR DESIGNS, OR DEVASTATING GREMLINS. "HARWARD" HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AS AT FAULT ON THE FOLLOWING PROJECTS: SQUARE D, TAC-TOPPER, AND MULTIPLE HEAVY EQUIPMENT FAILURES BOTH AT THE HOME SHOP AND THE HIDE SITE.
:evil:
Post by: Flyin6 on March 31, 2020, 08:27:57 PM
Have you ever experienced the feeling of being rejected?THIS JUST IN! EXTENSIVE INVESTIGATION HAS DETERMINED THAT AN INDIVIDUAL NAMED "HARWARD" IS RESPONSIBLE FOR SABOTAGING ALL "BIG D'S" FAILED PROJECTS BY INSERTING GRAND IDEAS, POOR DESIGNS, OR DEVASTATING GREMLINS. "HARWARD" HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AS AT FAULT ON THE FOLLOWING PROJECTS: SQUARE D, TAC-TOPPER, AND MULTIPLE HEAVY EQUIPMENT FAILURES BOTH AT THE HOME SHOP AND THE HIDE SITE.
:evil:
or fired?
Or banned?
or socially isolated, Real Man style?
Option number last involves a halo to a spot in the pacific 62 miles north of nowhere
where
the concentration of sharks has been verified
Post by: Bigdave_185 on March 31, 2020, 09:24:00 PM
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Post by: KensAuto on March 31, 2020, 09:52:24 PM
What about all Daves and multiple Shawns, with the various spellings?
Post by: Bigdave_185 on April 01, 2020, 12:19:53 AM
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Post by: TexasRedNeck on April 01, 2020, 07:45:27 AM
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Post by: dave945 on April 01, 2020, 08:21:57 AM
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Post by: Bigdave_185 on April 01, 2020, 10:03:35 AM
I probably won’t be able to make it this year. I’m pretty sure My wife would shoot me if I tried to leave for too long without taking the kids with me. BUT...if the .gov sends out some more handout checks, I could pick up a Quigley van and then I’d be right there with you.I don’t have that many kids but I would have a heck of a time building an adventure van. The 4x4 powerstroke platform big enough to give the burb a run for its money
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Post by: cj7ox on April 01, 2020, 11:27:55 AM
Have you ever experienced the feeling of being rejected?
or fired?
Or banned?
or socially isolated, Real Man style?
Option number last involves a halo to a spot in the pacific 62 miles north of nowhere
where
the concentration of sharks has been verified
It has been a while. Figured I was due for a firing! LOL!
Post by: Flyin6 on April 01, 2020, 01:37:38 PM
If you haven't been fired, it probably means you have been playin' it safe. Warriors do not play it safe, so you should have been fired on occasion. I know I was and rather spectacularly on a couple of occasions! Why, I remember when I was flying with the Marines, this Colonel who didn't like Armee pilots decided he didn't like me. Or maybe he did and his way of showing affection was to stand me at attention and rip my butt off, top gun style in front of all the Marine aviators.Have you ever experienced the feeling of being rejected?
or fired?
Or banned?
or socially isolated, Real Man style?
Option number last involves a halo to a spot in the pacific 62 miles north of nowhere
where
the concentration of sharks has been verified
It has been a while. Figured I was due for a firing! LOL!
Post by: cj7ox on April 01, 2020, 02:02:33 PM
If you haven't been fired, it probably means you have been playin' it safe. Warriors do not play it safe, so you should have been fired on occasion. I know I was and rather spectacularly on a couple of occasions! Why, I remember when I was flying with the Marines, this Colonel who didn't like Armee pilots decided he didn't like me. Or maybe he did and his way of showing affection was to stand me at attention and rip my butt off, top gun style in front of all the Marine aviators.
You fired me several times in the past. Then I went into ninja stealth mode for a bit. ;-)
Post by: Atkinsmatt on April 01, 2020, 03:58:04 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on April 01, 2020, 08:22:20 PM
Oh! My bad. If you've been fired already, then you may benefit from a refresher! ;-))If you haven't been fired, it probably means you have been playin' it safe. Warriors do not play it safe, so you should have been fired on occasion. I know I was and rather spectacularly on a couple of occasions! Why, I remember when I was flying with the Marines, this Colonel who didn't like Armee pilots decided he didn't like me. Or maybe he did and his way of showing affection was to stand me at attention and rip my butt off, top gun style in front of all the Marine aviators.
You fired me several times in the past. Then I went into ninja stealth mode for a bit. ;-)
Post by: Flyin6 on April 01, 2020, 08:22:51 PM
Just start in stealth mode and snipe at targets of opportunity. Sometimes you have to make the opportunity.Ken and Shawn do that all the time!
Post by: wyorunner on April 02, 2020, 02:12:18 AM
Post by: Flyin6 on April 02, 2020, 08:47:07 AM
So this thread has become the DOT comic section! Nice to see it has made something of itself. Clearly the burb is still trying to figure out if it wants to operate at full capacity or not....So Sad...
Post by: Bigdave_185 on April 02, 2020, 09:15:11 AM
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Post by: stlaser on April 02, 2020, 10:13:40 AM
Just start in stealth mode and snipe at targets of opportunity. Sometimes you have to make the opportunity.Ken and Shawn do that all the time!
Pretty sure we were both permanently fired years ago.....
Post by: cj7ox on April 02, 2020, 01:17:34 PM
When progress is away the Dots will play?
:grin:
:popcorn:
Post by: Flyin6 on April 02, 2020, 06:29:31 PM
I found the source of the constant voltage drain. The ignition on signal wire for the solenoid that would have engaged allowing the aft battery to charge was keeping something turned on.
I removed it in an ongoing test to hunt down this culprit and bingo...The voltage remains more or less constant. After a night and a day, the battery as shown here is still holding 12.1 volts and that was after an engine start.
So with that remedied, it is now going back to Nick's for his (hopefully) final tune and correction.
I think I may still have an issue with the climate control motor or possibly with the BCM, so that will be the next grain of rice to chase down enroute to perfection.
Post by: Bigdave_185 on April 02, 2020, 08:17:23 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on April 08, 2020, 10:08:13 PM
First, Nick loaded the new transmission shift tables into the thing and that is straightened out, he reports. The stumble off idle was remedied but in trying to figure out all that, he made a discovery.
The battery has been losing its charge all along and today, Nick discovered that the alternator was only producing 12.5 volts max to the PCM. He felt that during a cold start with a battery not fully charged the voltages were off to the PCM and that in itself is an issue. He sourced a 160 amp alternator meant for a Cadillac Escalade, and ordered that. He pointed out that the factory gages are junk. My electrical charge gage was reading 14 volts while the actual output from the alternator was only 12 volts.
As for the problem with the AC, we aren't there yet, just sorting through the issues at hand but getting closer to the prize all the time.
Post by: Bigdave_185 on April 08, 2020, 11:21:51 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on April 09, 2020, 09:30:19 AM
The million dollar invoice on the way lolI'm not happy with all these punch-out items, but looking at it objectively, I have the ball on the three yard line, second down, 14 seconds on the clock and I'm down by one. I get the ball into the end zone and I'll have one of the most unique, truly off road capable, real deal Suburbans in this nation.
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And it's not in my ethos to lose!
Post by: stlaser on April 09, 2020, 09:38:14 AM
Post by: Bigdave_185 on April 09, 2020, 01:40:59 PM
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Post by: wyorunner on April 09, 2020, 03:15:19 PM
Dave, for the love of Pete do not bring up that old Dodge right now....... fair warning!What old dodge? I know a few of us who have fully operating old dodges. Must not be those your thinking of.
Post by: oklawall on April 09, 2020, 04:20:10 PM
:popcorn:
Post by: stlaser on April 09, 2020, 05:34:01 PM
Dave, for the love of Pete do not bring up that old Dodge right now....... fair warning!What old dodge? I know a few of us who have fully operating old dodges. Must not be those your thinking of.
What is your definition of “fully”?
Post by: JR on April 09, 2020, 06:17:55 PM
Would be nice to really see this chunk go.
Post by: TexasRedNeck on April 09, 2020, 06:22:18 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on April 09, 2020, 09:10:33 PM
Do I sense a disturbance in the Dodge or is that a firing I feel?I'd say your senses are acutely accurate!
:popcorn:
Post by: Flyin6 on April 09, 2020, 09:15:15 PM
I don't think the AC issue is solved, but a lot of good things just happened.
Nick knows a guy at the caddy dealership that is a wizard with wiring and electrical stuff. He will be the next go-to guy to get the burb to 100%
Its getting there with no remunerations, vibrations, rejugerations, of any other types of__ach-tions in the way. Bet on this thing getting done and becoming FMC
Post by: Bigdave_185 on April 10, 2020, 12:56:22 AM
“Fully” assembled?Dave, for the love of Pete do not bring up that old Dodge right now....... fair warning!What old dodge? I know a few of us who have fully operating old dodges. Must not be those your thinking of.
What is your definition of “fully”?
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Post by: cj7ox on April 10, 2020, 11:51:54 AM
“Fully” assembled?Dave, for the love of Pete do not bring up that old Dodge right now....... fair warning!What old dodge? I know a few of us who have fully operating old dodges. Must not be those your thinking of.
What is your definition of “fully”?
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I think in this context, it means moves under its own power down the road, and reliably gets the driver where he/she needs to go. :wink:
Post by: wyorunner on April 10, 2020, 03:47:21 PM
This!!! Or simply put, can be used as a daily driver.“Fully” assembled?Dave, for the love of Pete do not bring up that old Dodge right now....... fair warning!What old dodge? I know a few of us who have fully operating old dodges. Must not be those your thinking of.
What is your definition of “fully”?
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I think in this context, it means moves under its own power down the road, and reliably gets the driver where he/she needs to go. :wink:
Post by: Bigdave_185 on April 10, 2020, 09:21:58 PM
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Post by: stlaser on April 10, 2020, 09:42:34 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on April 10, 2020, 10:36:16 PM
I picked up the burb today.
Yes it shifts much better and boy does it have a ton of power. Just normal driving it just moves out effortlessly.
And the thing starte more easily now that I have that beefy alternator keeping the battery topped up
The stumble off idle is no longer there and if you blip the throttle, it immediately responds with an RPM increase.
It is, however stalling sometime when pulling up to a stop. Nick drove it and said it didn't do anything like that for him, so it must be something new. The chinaman throttle body I have on there (I didn't know it was a chinaman product) is not behaving and may be the culprit. It makes a loud whistling sound on startup and at some other times. The sound is caused by roughly machined and not blended air passages that route to/from the Idle control motor. A good US TB does not do that. I am not liking the thing whistling so on that point alone the TBD (Throttle body days) are numbered. But considering that the CJP (Chinaman junk Part) may be the cause of all this, I think I'm going to opt to replace it.
And the climate control motor or system is still on the blink. So come monday, back to the shop.
Post by: TexasRedNeck on April 10, 2020, 10:47:21 PM
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Post by: Bigdave_185 on April 10, 2020, 11:09:13 PM
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Post by: wyorunner on April 11, 2020, 03:55:42 AM
Dang. The burb has the COVID virus
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I think you meant to say the burb has the Kung Flu... also known as the Wuhan Virus... aka the chinese virus
Post by: swbhobie16 on April 11, 2020, 08:24:01 AM
Post by: Flyin6 on April 11, 2020, 10:10:22 AM
i love the way a supercharger sounds and feels. drove my terminator the other day (mostly stock with a few goodies..) and it’s just immediate but smooth power. and you can’t beat the sound. a SC burb on 35s cruising down the highway or making a rolling 25 MPH pull will really take people by surpriseFrom a 25 mph roll it will break the tires free (I am told) ;-)
Post by: dave945 on April 11, 2020, 12:59:13 PM
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Post by: JR on April 11, 2020, 01:23:05 PM
Try is in Mall Mulch,,,,,,,
Post by: Bigdave_185 on April 11, 2020, 08:51:52 PM
Send one of them rangers out to video a full pull up the driveway. No smoking tires I wouldn’t pay the billi love the way a supercharger sounds and feels. drove my terminator the other day (mostly stock with a few goodies..) and it’s just immediate but smooth power. and you can’t beat the sound. a SC burb on 35s cruising down the highway or making a rolling 25 MPH pull will really take people by surpriseFrom a 25 mph roll it will break the tires free (I am told) ;-)
https://youtu.be/71tvAUjo60c
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Post by: Flyin6 on April 11, 2020, 10:09:58 PM
Will it break all four tires free?In first gear, I imagine it would. It got quite a bit more powerful. Like before it had a wheezing pinto 4-cyl. Now it has a pair of 454's, or maybe three of em. Its very powerful.
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Post by: JR on April 12, 2020, 04:10:33 AM
Post by: Dawg25385 on April 24, 2020, 12:42:22 AM
Your tuning escapades reminded me of my first experience with Kory on my LMM. Such a helpless, frustrating feeling when you’re waiting on somebody else for something only they can fix, and they don’t really care.
Glad you were able to reconnect with Nick, and get things on the right track!
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Post by: Flyin6 on April 24, 2020, 08:55:21 AM
Took me a few days, but I caught up on this. Looks great!Concur!
Your tuning escapades reminded me of my first experience with Kory on my LMM. Such a helpless, frustrating feeling when you’re waiting on somebody else for something only they can fix, and they don’t really care.
Glad you were able to reconnect with Nick, and get things on the right track!
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Mail order tuning is a fail, and I will not promote it nor recommend it.
Nick is currently sorting our a strange transmission behavior
Someday, I'll get all the issues solved.
Post by: Dawg25385 on April 24, 2020, 09:57:00 AM
That said, working with Rob Coddens when he was able to tune was great.Took me a few days, but I caught up on this. Looks great!Concur!
Your tuning escapades reminded me of my first experience with Kory on my LMM. Such a helpless, frustrating feeling when you’re waiting on somebody else for something only they can fix, and they don’t really care.
Glad you were able to reconnect with Nick, and get things on the right track!
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Mail order tuning is a fail, and I will not promote it nor recommend it.
Nick is currently sorting our a strange transmission behavior
Someday, I'll get all the issues solved.
I recently tuned my LBZ and had not been up to speed on the tyranny at the EPA, so was shocked when I called Rob and that was no dice. Luckily MotorOps was still in the game, so I called them and talked to a fella named Steve. All in all I’ve been happy with the tuning from MotorOps.
Hope your trans issues get sorted soon!
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Post by: Flyin6 on April 24, 2020, 07:58:25 PM
Nick and HP Tuners are still figuring out the software. They are talking a total reflash of the PCM or replacement of the 18 year old box altogether.
At this point, nothing has changed, I still just want it finished.
Post by: Flyin6 on April 28, 2020, 08:30:21 PM
Now there is something odd about the AC/PCM/fans still. The factory electric fans are supposed to switch on the main fan whenever the AC activates, but this one will not. Duane noted that my Burb has a manual HVAC switch and that is different. Different enough to cause the electric fans not to work like they should if the vehicle was just one year newer. My Burb was built in a transition period which still used the older style PCM.
Nick says that when this generation PCM starts to fail, it typically does so in stages, and an early warning of an impending failure presents with AC issues first. He said he has seen this before, and along with the weird converter clutch anomaly, I made a decision. We are going to install a totally new GM PCM, reflash and tune it and start this truck off as if it's 2002 once again. I think we just seem to be chasing a myriad of mysterious and unusual problems, so I feel swapping the PCM is prudent.
The Burb is back at Nick's shop so that can happen
Post by: TexasRedNeck on April 28, 2020, 08:53:12 PM
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Post by: JR on April 28, 2020, 09:26:12 PM
Maybe summer trip will happen?
Post by: Flyin6 on April 29, 2020, 11:02:54 AM
Sounds like my BDM module. First the lights flickered, then gone.Yea, this summer trip WILL happen
Maybe summer trip will happen?
Post by: Flyin6 on May 07, 2020, 09:19:42 AM
Everything works! Well almost everything. The right rear window is refusing to move up or down and the speaker also doesn't work in that door, but other than that the Burb roars!
Nick did not replace the PCM. He is a miner, that one. The problems I was having fascinated him so he kept digging, way down in the code of the original software, and that is where he found the mismatch. It seems some of the code that was written lately was not compatible with some that was there from the start and that may have been caused by addition of the electric fans or the tune, I do not know exactly. And for that matter, I may be butchering this horribly, as I am only a casual observer in this realm. Should Nick read this, perhaps he can correct the Don and bring the truth to light, but in his absence, my first grade explanation shall suffice.
What I can say is the truck is fabulous. Nick's tuning and Preston's boltin' on of de huffer made more than a casual impact! Then, for some reason the Caddy people gave me an alignment, and without my knowing it earlier, I suppose it needed one because it drives down the road wonderfully now. It is not wanting to suddenly drive off the crown nor dart, nor react to wind gusts. It just stays planted and pointed where you aim it. The ride is so comfortable, it's actually cushy to borrow a word from the more feminine sect.
The power is just there. Not diesel like, trying to twist the earth a bit faster on it's axis, but there is no wanting. Going up the very steep two mile long incline departing the Cincinnati, it just effortlessly maintained speed. Squirting ahead, and yes, I chose that word, is just a half inch of throttle away from where "you is" at any moment.
I found myself cruising at 60, at 65, at 70, at 75 and even darted up around the octy once or twice. It was revving, but not like it was pushing against mounting revs, but more like it was being gently pulled into the climbing R-P-M's. It likes to spin. Oh and did I mention merging into traffic? Ever owned a big block camaro? No you say? Well, then you won't understand what pulling onto a speedway feels like.
This thing is road ready (And I bath that statement with prayer because a liar called Satan wants to spoil all the good this thing will accomplish in the name of his opposite). But all bad possibilities aside, the Burb is finished, I declare it dun N' finished up 2 dis here point!
That does not mean it is finished. Is any project every truly finished? Could we replace the polished plastic part with a kryptonite one later on?? Well heck ya! And I'll do a couple of little things to it even before the pending trip, but for the most part as soon as I glue the top half of ma kamper to the lower "wheelie" part and hook that manassas to the speedy burb box, As graduating seniors say to the teachers who watched them mature in their high school years, "I'm outta here!"
Post by: JR on May 07, 2020, 12:05:19 PM
Post by: dave945 on May 07, 2020, 01:01:01 PM
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Post by: Dawg25385 on May 07, 2020, 01:07:07 PM
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Post by: Bigdave_185 on May 07, 2020, 01:21:38 PM
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Post by: cj7ox on May 07, 2020, 01:39:33 PM
Post by: EL TATE on May 07, 2020, 01:55:11 PM
Without pictographic/video evidence, I believe your claims of completeness are spurious. Proof, sir! We need proof! ;-)
I like to use big words so I can sound photosynthesis too!
Post by: KensAuto on May 07, 2020, 03:12:46 PM
Post by: oklawall on May 07, 2020, 07:36:57 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on May 07, 2020, 10:04:14 PM
Good to hear and congratulations to all that helped this project along. Just no oil changes any time soonHear-hear!
Ya, no oil changes for awhile
Phew...I'm tired of all this work, but it was a lot of fun!
Driving it today, it remains operational, smooth running, and just operates about how I expected it to.
Next big step will be towing the camper around on a test loop, coming up before not too much longer.
Post by: cruizng on May 07, 2020, 10:50:42 PM
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Post by: rpar86 on May 07, 2020, 10:51:43 PM
Post by: TexasRedNeck on May 08, 2020, 07:18:09 AM
So the rear window won’t work from either the master switchboard of the local switch in the door?
Interesting that it’s both the speaker and window. Time to get out the test meter
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Post by: Flyin6 on May 16, 2020, 10:03:30 AM
But
Last night I was driving home on the interstate from church
and
A duramax suburban passes me pulling a trailer
Instantly
I started having a new problem
Have to stay strong
Have to stay strong
Have to stay strong
Post by: dave945 on May 16, 2020, 01:46:44 PM
I’m not a nice guy at times.
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Post by: wyorunner on May 16, 2020, 04:54:52 PM
I’m going to start the chant I hear in the back of my head. It goes something like this: Dur-a-burb.....Dur-a-burb..... Dur-a-burb.....Dur-a-burb...... Dur-a-burb.....Dur-a-burb........DURABURB!!!!!!!!This is where it needs to go.... but only after he gets home from this first trip. Even if he wrote a check, I don’t think they could get a duramax in it in time for June trip.
I’m not a nice guy at times.
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Duraburb for the win!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 16, 2020, 06:12:38 PM
I think I probably should take the leap to diesel it out with a nice ally
But after the trip
And now I need to start the process of talking myself out of doing it!
Post by: swbhobie16 on May 16, 2020, 08:44:16 PM
Its a fun truck as it is, but that duraburb went by me like it was idling.
I think I probably should take the leap to diesel it out with a nice ally
But after the trip
And now I need to start the process of talking myself out of doing it!
i’ll take the 6.0 when it’s pulled..
Post by: stlaser on May 16, 2020, 09:02:33 PM
Post by: rpar86 on May 16, 2020, 11:53:04 PM
Cummins swap it, 6.7 and allyThat would be sacrilege.
Post by: Flyin6 on May 17, 2020, 07:06:44 PM
Don't worry, that won't be happenin'Cummins swap it, 6.7 and allyThat would be sacrilege.
Post by: Flyin6 on May 17, 2020, 07:07:06 PM
Okey dokeIts a fun truck as it is, but that duraburb went by me like it was idling.
I think I probably should take the leap to diesel it out with a nice ally
But after the trip
And now I need to start the process of talking myself out of doing it!
i’ll take the 6.0 when it’s pulled..
Post by: Flyin6 on May 26, 2020, 11:27:25 PM
The right rear door: No speaker, no electric window control
Pulled the panel and found both the switch and the speaker partially unplugged. Wires reattached and everything works fine now
The stereo just wasn't sounding right. So I tuned it in several areas. The amp, the sub woofer, and the equalizer and I would say it now sounds great
The underhood lamp ground wire broke off, so I repaired that
The winch hot lead, attached to a 100 amp mega fuse was not getting voltage and the winch was not working. SO I reattached the lead to the local hot battery post and that unit now works again.
The overhead lights quit working. I have not figured that out yet.
I have brake fluid accumulating on the drivers floor mat. It's not the master cylinder abt seems to be coming from those new -4 brake hoses I incorporated into the parking brake system. I tightened the fittings which were all tight already, so the jury is still out on that one
The six rib belt powering everything that spins on the front of the motor turned itself into a 4-rib belt. I removed it, and ordered two new ones, due in Thursday.
I had two additional sets of lights to wire in to finish that out, so I got started on the top push-bar lamps which will be triggered through a relay from the high beam
Post by: Flyin6 on May 26, 2020, 11:29:23 PM
That installation is complete now and works fine
Who says you can't fit a square peg into a round hole?
Post by: Flyin6 on May 26, 2020, 11:32:16 PM
Post by: JR on May 27, 2020, 02:53:23 AM
You built a wood base power system for the burb and issues are showing up.
Actually cept for the drain issue, seems simple.
My burbs batteries showed 100% on one charger and DOA on another. Been cycling and trickle charging em and seems they are doing OK now (little low on water too) Showing 12.4 normally and holding high 11's under a load check. Few more days to tell is I need new batteries
.
Post by: Flyin6 on May 27, 2020, 03:59:59 PM
Funny, you built a wood water tank for the trailer and it leaks someplace.Maybe some woodtrons got mixed in with the electrons, then some termites went in and disrupted things...Could happen...
You built a wood base power system for the burb and issues are showing up.
Actually cept for the drain issue, seems simple.
My burbs batteries showed 100% on one charger and DOA on another. Been cycling and trickle charging em and seems they are doing OK now (little low on water too) Showing 12.4 normally and holding high 11's under a load check. Few more days to tell is I need new batteries
.
Battery is up to 13.something and acting normally. Been on and off trickle charging it for daze now
Post by: cj7ox on May 27, 2020, 04:53:42 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on May 28, 2020, 08:58:56 AM
So, big D, what caused your belt to lose a couple ribs? Sounds like you may have a pulley out of alignment.I looked at that and everything looks normal. in alignment. I spun the motor up once, the first time just before I noticed it. I really don't know, but maybe all the wrenching and fitting around that belt could have cut it in some way...(reaching here), who knows. Nick did say that sometimes these superchargers will toss a belt and he suggested I carry a spare. I ordered two which will come in today. And I will likely not spin the motor up again, just no need to do so with a heavy burb.
Post by: Bigdave_185 on May 28, 2020, 12:00:50 PM
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Post by: BobbyB on May 30, 2020, 05:22:11 PM
in my logic
We don't use logic around there here parts.
Post by: Flyin6 on May 31, 2020, 08:36:38 PM
It developed a problem with the fan circuit breakers popping that I just couldn't sort.
You would be sitting in traffic and the temp just start to creep up. Open the hood, and push in the breakers and the fans would kick in lowering the temp.
I suspected the unit was not grounded properly, and I was right. The fans normally ground to the alternator bracket, but that went away with the supercharger installation. I found everything grounded to the battery tray hold down. I made up a ground cable and attached that to the alternator bracket and while I was doing that, I was running the engine and fans and when they kicked on from low to high I thought I saw a spark near the relay stack.
Upon investigation, I actually found some wires were not making good contact INSIDE A STEEL CRIMP!!!!!
Yep, never saw that before either. So I heated and soldered that connection and remounted everything and so far fans are running strong like they should.
I found that inverter which was bad, and I found some mega fuses which don't seem to be burned but are not working!!!. I replaced them and simplified the wiring and now everything electrical is working.
Finally and it is the last thing, I traced down the brake line leak. Again, I have never seen this before but one of the new teflon/stainless steel hoses is bad. No leak or evidence of any wetness at either end at the fittings, but the middle of the line is wet!
All those years flying hooks which are two big rotor systems tied together by a net of hydraulic lines and I've almost never seen a line fail or leak in the middle somewhere, other than those which were grazed by some high speed projectile.
I'll replace that line and that should bring this truck to 100%. And it is running really well. Loads of torque and accelerates at part throttle effortlessly. We should be hooking it to the trailer for a test run in just days.
Post by: wilsonphil on June 01, 2020, 05:55:35 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on June 01, 2020, 08:28:34 PM
Can't recall who's lines these were, perhaps summit racing. Have to get an aeroquip line...Thanks!
Post by: Nate on June 24, 2020, 08:51:43 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on June 26, 2020, 07:51:45 PM
So whats the final verdict of the burb, the problems and thoughts of the job nick did?Nick and Preston did good, proud of them.
John the transmission guy did too, good people.
I finished the brake line and running down things and have nothing to fix, the burb is 100%
I've been driving it
Only real complaint(s) is the high cruise RPM resulting in poor mileage.
Post by: Nate on June 26, 2020, 11:37:24 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on June 29, 2020, 05:11:35 PM
So you ended up taking the dmax on your vaca instead of the burb?Wife's 4-runner
Post by: Nate on June 29, 2020, 06:34:55 PM
Post by: Bigdave_185 on June 29, 2020, 07:57:51 PM
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Post by: KensAuto on June 29, 2020, 10:04:33 PM
How did the 4runner do pulling the camper?Ouch
Post by: Flyin6 on July 02, 2020, 11:09:29 AM
How did the 4runner do pulling the camper?We did not take the camper, just we peeps. I do not think that that 4-runner could pull a sick boy off a pee pot!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 02, 2020, 11:55:14 AM
I'll remove the 35" Dick Cepek tires and call it good. THis will lower the RPM about 125-150 depending on the actual outside diameter.
Looking further down the road, I am contemplating a big inch stroker bottom end with a torque cam. I am seeing 500 ft lbs to the ground and although it has no problem moving out quite smartly, it is not diesel like. A diesel conversion is going to get into the couple of ten thousand range, and like RedNeck points out, I would be further along to just buy a used duraburb, which I might well do and just add to my collection.
Anyway, tires first and a bit of tuning to see how this all pans out.
Post by: JR on July 02, 2020, 01:35:47 PM
I need to try cheap too, $300 each for the Coopers right now, need to find a sale.
Post by: cruizng on July 02, 2020, 10:00:19 PM
https://www.4-wheelclassics.com/vehicles/412/1997-gmc-suburban
Not a duraburb but is the correct fuel.
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Post by: Bigdave_185 on July 02, 2020, 11:04:24 PM
I’m stuck washin the ol dirty (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200703/83d12e861ed52eea8bb59b21ba2a4a9e.jpg)
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Post by: JR on July 02, 2020, 11:31:11 PM
Post by: TexasRedNeck on July 03, 2020, 10:02:37 AM
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Post by: Flyin6 on July 18, 2020, 03:03:30 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on July 18, 2020, 03:20:00 PM
As we have discussed in the other thread, I am looking to repower the burb.
Reason? Well, even is supercharged form, I do not think it is all that spunky, at least not like my much heavier diesel truck.
I have looked at going to a big inch LS short block. I have looked into a Cummins 12 valve. I just got done researching the Chevy 8.1L, 496" motor. I have even looked at stroked versions of the latter reaching 572 cu in!
There seems to be problems with any of the above. The LS motors, no matter how big have to be sun up to build big numbers, and those big numbers only get to a low powered D-Max.
The big block would require a 1,000 gallon tank to have a 500 mile cruising range. Even though it could be built to generate 900 ft lbs at a low RPM, it would never see double digit MPG, so the practicality of that is questionable.
That leaves me with the 12 Valve, A duramax, or leave it alone and live with it.
At the moment, I am awaiting a Flex-a-lite fan to keep the thing cool and have 37" tires sitting here to cut back the RPM some, so it is static until those get installed. The gasser with the 4L80E with its puny .75 overdrive will always have me turning mid 2,000's while cruising so that, too, is a limiting factor.
The 12 valve could be made to work and would be dirt floor simple, but mating that to a transmission that would fit and give me a decent OD while playing with only 360 cu in presents its own set of compromises.
Now stellar warp drive and helium 3 fusion drives have not yet been invented so that leaves only:
1. Leave it alone
or
2. Swap to a duramax.
Now many of you have suggested I just buy another duraburb and be done with it. But would I?
Every duraburb I have looked like were only part of the way there to what I want. THe most recent LMM powered 2007 had this awful pro-comp lift kit which hangs the torsion bars down for everything to catch on. Then gaudy 20's, and so forth.
My old 2002 has been nearly completely gone through. TO do that again would be another 6 months plus and I am just done with the major rebuilds for now.
I just want to use my old burb and get it to act like my truck
Therefore the only thing that makes sense, after all things considered is to swap to a Duramax.
Post by: Flyin6 on July 18, 2020, 03:25:15 PM
I have located a donor LB7 powertrain to start with. Engine and five speed ally for $1500 and its running.
if I decide to go through with this I will rebuild and strengthen the LB7 bottom end. I'll add LLY heads and top end. The five speed ally will get the treatment and be converted into a 6-speed.
I will lower the lift by 2" and then install a 2" body lift to make room for the Allison trans.
After all that and I have a working engine/trans, I'll bring it all together using mostly stock parts.
The plan will be for a 600-700 HP motor with the 5 position tune switch. The trans will be built to handle all that and thereafter, nothing will remain to be done!
Post by: wyorunner on July 18, 2020, 03:59:52 PM
Send the burb off and write the check. Save you the time, use it where it’s more valuable.
Post by: Flyin6 on July 18, 2020, 05:37:58 PM
Remember last week when you were talking about excess stuff, and time?1- The check is obscenely large
Send the burb off and write the check. Save you the time, use it where it’s more valuable.
2- That's just for the stock conversion
3- I really don't trust the work of too many folks
4- For the 20K I spend on labor, imagine what kind of motor and trans I can piece together
5- I won't learn anything if someone else does it
Post by: wyorunner on July 18, 2020, 06:54:21 PM
All valid points, but even at 20k, you’ll still be well ahead of a new burb. And recoup a little on the sale of the existing guzzler that’s in there.Remember last week when you were talking about excess stuff, and time?1- The check is obscenely large
Send the burb off and write the check. Save you the time, use it where it’s more valuable.
2- That's just for the stock conversion
3- I really don't trust the work of too many folks
4- For the 20K I spend on labor, imagine what kind of motor and trans I can piece together
5- I won't learn anything if someone else does it
I understand your need to do it yourself, just not sure if another 6 months of work is worth it. I know I wish I could have written a check many times, simply because of lost time.
Shop in Florida has been doing it for a while I’d like to think they are trustworthy. Maybe find a shop that has a warranty on the work?
I’ll also add, 3 months of mon-fri 8 hours a day, 50$ an hour (I figure your time is with that, and you skill), 24000.
Ok I’m done. And will enjoy watching this transformation as a Burbamax is something her and I have always thought would be a very practical rig.
Post by: JR on July 19, 2020, 12:45:39 AM
It is SO much more than just a motor/trans swap.
The style of lift is a shopping point, about the easiest thing to change too.
Post by: Flyin6 on July 19, 2020, 10:28:33 AM
Post by: Flyin6 on July 19, 2020, 10:39:52 AM
But thinking about it, doing this swap is really in keeping with my whole life. I have never sought the easy path but rather straining to reach something I thought was unreachable. And I'm not trying to say anything to my credit, not at all, but I seem always to gravitate toward the difficult stuff. I don't know, some psychological quirk??
But, that's really it. Going from a gasser to a diesel will test me to the limits of my patience and ability. But it will also produce an inner satisfaction that cannot be equaled by "writing the check" so to speak. Making it into the NightStalkers was not easy. Staying there was not easy. All the training, new equipment, new maneuvers and then the missions. Crazy stuff that the Army looked on rather dimly. I thought that was silly of the regular Army folks to think of us that way, but it is clear to me now. They were jealous of a few men who could and did do things they could not do.
So all that is to say, a man is cut from a certain bolt of cloth. My people jump into the raging river, believing in their abilities and hoping with a certain degree of luck that they make it out to the other end. Because, you know what happens in between the jump and the end point? LIFE happens, and experiences that few will dare and almost none will experience. As crazy as that sounds, the lure of trying to get this D-Max suburban conversion myself is just too much to avoid.
It starts tomorrow.
Post by: JR on July 19, 2020, 02:00:26 PM
Funny, I keep bouncing around with the sub on motor work. Need it to run good for now but that 6bt is sitting there to. Not like I have anything else going.
Are you going to rebuild the tranny or just get built unit?
Post by: Flyin6 on July 19, 2020, 02:49:37 PM
Sweet, a hot rod duramax build. "fluid change" on steroids!I'll have that done locally
Funny, I keep bouncing around with the sub on motor work. Need it to run good for now but that 6bt is sitting there to. Not like I have anything else going.
Are you going to rebuild the tranny or just get built unit?
Post by: wyorunner on July 19, 2020, 06:09:14 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on July 30, 2020, 12:27:48 PM
and
discussion
So I was off and runnin' trying to find all the parts to convert the suburban into a duraburb thing. That was going well. I had located a donor LB7 and allison for $1500 which was worn out, not running, but rebuildable.
Then I had to go and get heart surgery
That turned out fine, but after I sat in front of the monitor and TV screen the required 5 days, I got busy about going to fetch the donor parts
Well, the guy sold it all in the past few days and I am left with nothing
That caused me some pause and time for reflection.
A quick check of FB marketplace and there are plenty of donors at 2X-3X the cost and mostly 400 miles away...hmmm
Then I started to look at the cost of this
Cores/harness/front cooler clip: $3K
Rebuild Ally: $5K
conversion to 6 speed: $1.5K
LB7 injectors $1,700
LB7 Pistons: $1,700
Rebuild kit: $500
Machine work: $1,500
Heads $1,800
Rework driveshafts: $1,000
ECM/TCM HP tuners stuff plus new harness $1500
New radiator/IC $800
fluid damper, studs, things $2,000
Transfer case $1,000 at least
instrument cluster and assundry things: Who knows
Camshaft $1000
Lifters: $800
Turbo: $2,000
Exhaust, down pipe, AC lines redo...$$$
and on and on and on.
Looking at it in the aggregate, WTH was I thinkin'???
I'd be $20K plus deep into this thing without a second thought and maybe more. I'd have everything I needed and more, but is it really worth it?
I started this thing because I really wanted to lower the cruise RPM and the 6 speed ALLY which needs a duramax to shove it around is an add-on. Since I'm putting in an Ally, might as well do it right, Right?
So with a long exhale, I said to myself, "Don forget this crazee idea you bonehead!" Have to admit I am surprised I spoke to myself disrespectfully, but, hey, it's me, OK?
So he sez, Don, why don't you just drop in a 6L90E? Has a .67 top gear would lower RPM a good deal, sure enough
I added up the costs and when the figures started to eclipse the $8,000 mark, I had to question meself once again.
So I calls me transmission guru, John over at SS transmissions in the Alexandria of Kentuckee. He sez, what the heck you thinkin? He literally says, Hey, I've never done a swap like that, mostly because it doesn't make much sense, but if you want to spend the money, I'd love to experiment on your suburban. John is a good one. He will always tell you the truth even if it is costing him money. He's just honest and since he has to go to bed and wake up ever night with himself, he wants to like the guy behind the morning shave.
Then I did some calculatin' excuse me, for you rednecks, good ole boyz, and numbskulls, I did some cipherin'!
Check this out:
Stock 2002 Suburban 2500
4.10 gears, .75 OD ratio and stock tire, 265/70, 31.6" tall 75MPH = 2452RPM
Mine:
4.88 gears .75 OD ratio 37" tires 75MPH = 2493 RPM
So this setup moves up the revs, a measly 41 RPM, like as in less than half a hundred
So, its a big burly 3.4 ton truck. It is meant to be spinnin' up whilst truckin down the highways and byways.
I'm gonna live with it.
Yea sure, I think I'll get John to rebuild the 4L80E and add in a good converter and call it a day with all that
I think I'll bolt in another 40 gallon gas tank to increase my range to over 100 miles
And I think I'll have a little fun and build a stroker short block and go for like 800+ ft lbs of planet destroyin torque.
Yessir, That's what I think I'm gonna do...
Post by: JR on July 30, 2020, 12:55:11 PM
:popcorn:
Post by: swbhobie16 on July 30, 2020, 02:47:43 PM
Post by: JR on July 30, 2020, 03:06:36 PM
Now, what about the overheating issue?
Post by: Flyin6 on July 30, 2020, 05:24:12 PM
Now theres an idea that doesn't break the bank. Not cheap, but doable.I purchased a generic fan controller. That kit supplied by LS1 Trucks just does not work. Over and over it just keeps popping the circuit breakers.
Now, what about the overheating issue?
The new controller just arrived. It goes on pdq. Then I drive it to see if the fan motors are working properly. But in all instances before when the fans were working the temp was good. Hopefully that will cure that
Second issue: The chinaman throttle body is a mess. It whistles and howls and roars. I am told it is due to improperly machined idle air passages. I just ordered a new Edelbrock TB to fix that
When she is up and running well, I'll have the 37" tires mounted and it will be completed in its new configuration, well sort of
Next, I am going to have it dynoed, then take that dyno sheet to John at SS transmissions so he can have a billet 3 disc converter built for the truck. While the trans is out, he will rebuild it even though it doesn't need it and get that zero-timed.
Post by: Bigdave_185 on July 30, 2020, 07:05:26 PM
All I ever wanted was a Smokey tire burnout video and I still don’t have it!!!!
I’m going to start burning down court houses
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Post by: JR on July 30, 2020, 07:12:43 PM
Post by: TexasRedNeck on July 30, 2020, 09:15:10 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on August 01, 2020, 09:28:52 AM
Maybe he can light the mulch on fire first,,,,,,,,,,,Did that for sure
Power company had to come out and redo the underground electricity feed to my house. BIG, BIG blue sparks!
Post by: Flyin6 on August 01, 2020, 09:33:49 AM
Don did you get it dynoed to see where the tq curve is? Gear selection when towing is as much about keeping the tq in the right spot as anything. I’d start there and see if you can alter the ratio to lower rpms and put it in the fat part of the curve at 70mphSure did. Went over 500 RWTQ at just north of 2500 and stayed there until 5600.
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Talked to Nick. We're going to drive it next week, tune some more, then do a pull or two. He wants to stick some more boost into it. Maybe with sorting out the transmission shifting program some more, then adding another 100 ft lbs will get it done.
Putting together solutions looks like, canning the blower and setting up twin turbos, or blower and tossing in a 408 or 427" short block. Figure 2 HP per inch, another 30-50 cu in and it really should solve my dilemma.
I might even take some weight out too. Have some thoughts about how to do that.
Post by: JR on August 01, 2020, 01:50:12 PM
Yes, weight AND drag are the biggest mileage killers. Load it up when traveling, lean it out around town. I don't do that, all my spares and tools are in the back. (which needs a good cleaning!)
Post by: Flyin6 on August 01, 2020, 05:44:25 PM
Just think, you will be the best friend of every oil company. Yep, just don't throw $$$ at it, make it the best it can be. I don't see a bigger short block doing that.Copy that!
Yes, weight AND drag are the biggest mileage killers. Load it up when traveling, lean it out around town. I don't do that, all my spares and tools are in the back. (which needs a good cleaning!)
Coming up on a garage re-do
Included in the plans are a hoist to pull that roof tent up closer to the roof of my house.
That will get a few hundred pounds off the thing and lower the total drag number fo-sho
Also adding a two-post lift and maybe try and squeeze in a smaller mezzanine...
Post by: TexasRedNeck on August 01, 2020, 05:45:26 PM
If you want lower rpms and still pull a lot of weight. Gotta go diesel.
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Post by: Flyin6 on August 01, 2020, 05:45:43 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 01, 2020, 05:47:24 PM
My calculations are that with 37s, 4.88s and a .75 final drive you are 2562 at 75mph which is right at max torque for your motor.I'm gonna live with it, that is after another round of mods which will include a freshened 4L80, billet converter, different supercharger pulley, new throttle body, maybe another cam change, but likely not until the bigger short block, and some dyno time.
If you want lower rpms and still pull a lot of weight. Gotta go diesel.
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Post by: Flyin6 on August 01, 2020, 05:48:53 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 01, 2020, 05:49:52 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 01, 2020, 05:50:38 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 01, 2020, 05:55:03 PM
I will be replacing it with a high quality fan controller made by Davies Craig of Australia
Post by: Flyin6 on August 01, 2020, 05:56:07 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 01, 2020, 05:58:31 PM
So I made another bracket from some angle aluminum and affixed it to the side of the electrical circuit center and fastened it with plastic push locks.
Post by: Flyin6 on August 01, 2020, 05:59:24 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 01, 2020, 06:02:53 PM
I set the fan relay temp to 190, started the engine and allowed it to climb to temp. The instant the motor hit 190, the first fan kicked on, and not slow, but helicopter rotor system-on! ten seconds later the second fan started. In about 20 seconds the temp fell into the 170's and the fans cycled off! WHOA! That thing works!
Post by: JR on August 01, 2020, 06:12:15 PM
I got a 12v fridge that keeps shutting off, truck starts fine though.
Post by: Flyin6 on August 02, 2020, 10:39:41 AM
Think I am going to add a solar panel to my truck. Just like a tender, but no plugging it in!I have a small 5W solar panel mounted on top of the dash in the D-Max truck. Keeps things nice and topped off
I got a 12v fridge that keeps shutting off, truck starts fine though.
Post by: JR on August 02, 2020, 01:25:51 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 02, 2020, 07:22:14 PM
Still haven't reinstalled the intake tube. Waiting on the new TB to show.
Post by: Flyin6 on August 02, 2020, 07:25:30 PM
I am now decluttering the thing some. The weight is way up as we all know and some things like the electric/battery distribution is a bit busy. So I decided to clean that way up over its modified state.
First step was to remove that heavy stainless battery box from its perch above the rear axle and chuck the box. I won't be reusing it.
Post by: Flyin6 on August 02, 2020, 07:27:58 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 02, 2020, 07:28:44 PM
Post by: JR on August 13, 2020, 03:31:54 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 14, 2020, 11:50:29 AM
Notice the milling for the idle air bleed between the two. Chinese (black) was so noisy it was ridiculous.
Post by: Flyin6 on August 14, 2020, 11:52:08 AM
After some driving the engine settled right in with its new companion.
Post by: Flyin6 on August 14, 2020, 11:59:03 AM
I am getting a little tired of messing with this cooling system. Now here's the weird part. The gage cluster showed the water temp over 240F. But when I opened the hood and saw the reading on the fan controller, it said 198F.
I turned it all off, waited a few minutes then switched it back on. Water temp gage now over near 260F (engine off) but the fan controller showing like 203F
So who is correct???
Then the fan controller kicked on one fan...and then the second fan DID NOT COME ON
What the fark! You tellin' me this fan controller has failed too?
So here's what I did to correct so far. I ordered the parts to convert the fan controller sensor to be a direct fluid contact probe, changing from the temp sensor that is shoved into the radiator fins.
And I purchased a Flowmaster series super 50 muffla'
More on that later, but I am now honing this thing getting it ever closer to what I want it to be, a little bit at a time. The current Magnaflow muffla, although their largest, is still too noisy.
Post by: rpar86 on August 14, 2020, 01:53:03 PM
Post by: TexasRedNeck on August 14, 2020, 03:31:55 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on August 14, 2020, 05:58:36 PM
Don, the stepper motors on the cluster are notorious for going bad. If you have a way to monitor the temp digitally (scan tool, etc) that may provide more insight.Stepper motor? Do you mean the actual Temp gage?
I have long suspected it
When Nick was tuning the truck, he noted that within minutes the gage marched right up to 210 and stayed there no matter what. He checked it against ECM coolant temp and found it to be way off.
I think I may just install a mechanical gage, and rely on the digital fan controller until then, then during the winter send the cluster off for a rebuild while I install that new 427...
Post by: Flyin6 on August 14, 2020, 05:59:43 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 14, 2020, 06:02:11 PM
I compound the entire thing out while its still wet, then rinse off the buffer residue panel by panel. I give it a good rinsing and wiping down, then usually leave it right there
Post by: Flyin6 on August 14, 2020, 06:05:24 PM
This time I sprayed some Mothers ceramic water-rollin'-off in a hurry, stuff while the truck was still wet, then rinsed it again, and wiped it down with a towel. After spraying on the water dispersing stuff, there wasn't very much water to wipe off, frankly,
And I got a beautiful shine from this original 2002 Chevrolet factory paint.
Post by: Flyin6 on August 14, 2020, 06:08:22 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 14, 2020, 06:10:05 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 14, 2020, 06:11:26 PM
Little bit by little bit...
Post by: TexasRedNeck on August 14, 2020, 07:10:47 PM
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Post by: rpar86 on August 14, 2020, 08:27:29 PM
Yup the stepper motor is the little motor behind the needle that moves it up/down. Lots of people out there that can rebuild those clusters in their sleep for not too bad a price either. I think you’ve got a good plan goin. :thumbDon, the stepper motors on the cluster are notorious for going bad. If you have a way to monitor the temp digitally (scan tool, etc) that may provide more insight.Stepper motor? Do you mean the actual Temp gage?
I have long suspected it
When Nick was tuning the truck, he noted that within minutes the gage marched right up to 210 and stayed there no matter what. He checked it against ECM coolant temp and found it to be way off.
I think I may just install a mechanical gage, and rely on the digital fan controller until then, then during the winter send the cluster off for a rebuild while I install that new 427...
My ONE critique looking at the pics is that the rear axle/wheel isn’t centered in the wheel well. But I guess when you lift something, unless you get a longer drive shaft, that is inevitable.
Post by: Bob Smith on August 14, 2020, 10:56:57 PM
Post by: KensAuto on August 15, 2020, 08:19:05 AM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 15, 2020, 09:46:59 AM
Definitely get that gauge sorted boss. Hopefully it's not working correctly. But if it is.....need to know for sure one way or another.Already on it Doc.
I think I'll just purchase the mechanical gages I need all at once, figure our where to place them and drive on
I remember that the truck was running great when the temp gage was headin' to the right, and no hint of "boiling over."
Post by: Flyin6 on August 15, 2020, 09:53:09 AM
Ryan,Yup the stepper motor is the little motor behind the needle that moves it up/down. Lots of people out there that can rebuild those clusters in their sleep for not too bad a price either. I think you’ve got a good plan goin. :thumbDon, the stepper motors on the cluster are notorious for going bad. If you have a way to monitor the temp digitally (scan tool, etc) that may provide more insight.Stepper motor? Do you mean the actual Temp gage?
I have long suspected it
When Nick was tuning the truck, he noted that within minutes the gage marched right up to 210 and stayed there no matter what. He checked it against ECM coolant temp and found it to be way off.
I think I may just install a mechanical gage, and rely on the digital fan controller until then, then during the winter send the cluster off for a rebuild while I install that new 427...
My ONE critique looking at the pics is that the rear axle/wheel isn’t centered in the wheel well. But I guess when you lift something, unless you get a longer drive shaft, that is inevitable.
I have long noticed that, the forwardness of the wheel in the well. The only way I could possibly fix that would be to drill another spring pack hole further aft. Problem with that is the drilling of spring steel...nearly impossible
Another solution, and one I am considering is to have a custom spring pack built by Atlas or similar with that hole relocated to center the axle. As for needing another drive shaft, I doubt moving it aft one inch is going to matter at all. Now having said that, I kept the driveshaft out of Square D which was built from a 1.5 ton service truck core. The driveshaft guys had a pile of them they purchased brand new to cut down and install in all these 1,000 HO diesel trucks that are popping up. It has been on my mind to eventually get into that shaft in this truck. So we'll see. But for now the temp/cooling issue is on deck.
Post by: Flyin6 on August 15, 2020, 09:55:55 AM
Are my wheels dated? I am not motivated by style for the most part, but do I have that right, or is there a better idea?
Looking at it, I may have too much of the mono-chromatic thing going on
Post by: Bigdave_185 on August 15, 2020, 09:56:06 AM
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Post by: longball on August 15, 2020, 11:16:11 AM
Looking for some opinions here gentsWheels are perfectly fine in my opinion.
Are my wheels dated? I am not motivated by style for the most part, but do I have that right, or is there a better idea?
Looking at it, I may have too much of the mono-chromatic thing going on
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Post by: longball on August 15, 2020, 11:18:47 AM
LookingzWheels are perfectly fine in my opinion. I had stepper motor problems in my 2001 1/2 ton. Gauges were forever acting up. I think in those years that was common.
for some opinions here gents
Are my wheels dated? I am not motivated by style for the most part, but do I have that right, or is there a better idea?
Looking at it, I may have too much of the mono-chromatic thing going on
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Post by: longball on August 15, 2020, 11:19:43 AM
LookingzWheels are perfectly fine in my opinion. I had stepper motor problems in my 2001 1/2 ton. Gauges were forever acting up. I think in those years that was common.
for some opinions here gents
Are my wheels dated? I am not motivated by style for the most part, but do I have that right, or is there a better idea?
Looking at it, I may have too much of the mono-chromatic thing going on
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Post by: Bigdave_185 on August 15, 2020, 11:33:25 AM
I’ll not be excited about a forced 20 on a new truck.m when it happens
Wider wheel might help ya not look so top heavy also
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Post by: Flyin6 on August 15, 2020, 12:14:05 PM
I have the same wheel as you in the shed, I like the mixed machine and black look.The truck will soon lose some of its height
I’ll not be excited about a forced 20 on a new truck.m when it happens
Wider wheel might help ya not look so top heavy also
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Working on a pulley storage system that will pull the tent off the roof and store it up near the ceiling. With that, it will lose nearly a foot from the top and I feel make it look less tippy.
Post by: Flyin6 on August 15, 2020, 12:15:54 PM
Definitely get that gauge sorted boss. Hopefully it's not working correctly. But if it is.....need to know for sure one way or another.Already on it Doc.
I think I'll just purchase the mechanical gages I need all at once, figure our where to place them and drive on
I remember that the truck was running great when the temp gage was headin' to the right, and no hint of "boiling over."
I ordered some mechanical gages from Summit just now, and sent an email to a guy in Michigan who rebuilds these GM gage clusters. We'll see what he says. Seems like a simple couple day turn around operation.LookingzWheels are perfectly fine in my opinion. I had stepper motor problems in my 2001 1/2 ton. Gauges were forever acting up. I think in those years that was common.
for some opinions here gents
Are my wheels dated? I am not motivated by style for the most part, but do I have that right, or is there a better idea?
Looking at it, I may have too much of the mono-chromatic thing going on
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Post by: JR on August 15, 2020, 12:53:21 PM
As for the temp, make sure the gauge reads the engine not the rad temp. Did you get the "steam" crossovers on the that motor? That could play tricks on ya.
Post by: TexasRedNeck on August 15, 2020, 02:11:05 PM
Bugs you then go back to polished finish on the wheels.
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Post by: Flyin6 on August 15, 2020, 02:52:30 PM
Wheels are fine, maybe a color update? The entire look is good, better without everything up top all the time and the truck mirrors add something too.Did not do steam crossovers, just left the stock tubes in place along with a couple mud dauber nests to block the passage
As for the temp, make sure the gauge reads the engine not the rad temp. Did you get the "steam" crossovers on the that motor? That could play tricks on ya.
Post by: JR on August 15, 2020, 04:10:03 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 15, 2020, 09:36:22 PM
I have been reading about painting/dyeing automotive interiors for long enough
I'm going to do something interesting to the interior of da burb.
I just ordered all the materials. BMW Cinnamon brown recently seen in the X5 interior.
As soon as I finish painting the camper, I'll pull this thing down and get started on the color change
Gonna be cool!
Post by: Flyin6 on August 15, 2020, 09:37:43 PM
Dauber might be an option, but not helpful. No steam crossovers, and it runs hot, Hmmm.JR, it has the factory corner steam pipes, but not an aftermarket setup
Besides, I am feeling it was a step motor all along...
Post by: JR on August 15, 2020, 11:51:27 PM
Long as the motor never got hot is the main thing!
Post by: Flyin6 on August 16, 2020, 10:32:32 AM
Gonna get the beamer logo too?Love the bimmer logo, rmdneis me of ma weit und balance kalqualatiuns
Long as the motor never got hot is the main thing!
It only was over 500F for less than 10 minutes
Should be ah-ight
bonehead!
;-))
Post by: JR on August 16, 2020, 01:40:19 PM
Post by: Dodge4x48499 on August 16, 2020, 03:21:55 PM
They let you move the axle back 1" or 1-1/2"
https://www.offroaddesign.com/1-zero-rate-add-a-leaf-kit-2-1-2-wide.html (https://www.offroaddesign.com/1-zero-rate-add-a-leaf-kit-2-1-2-wide.html)
https://www.offroaddesign.com/1-zero-rate-add-a-leaf-kit-3-wide.html (https://www.offroaddesign.com/1-zero-rate-add-a-leaf-kit-3-wide.html)
Post by: Flyin6 on August 16, 2020, 09:55:05 PM
What about a 1" Zero Rate Add A Leaf, they have them in 2-1/2" or 3" wide.Didn't know about that...Cool idea.
They let you move the axle back 1" or 1-1/2"
https://www.offroaddesign.com/1-zero-rate-add-a-leaf-kit-2-1-2-wide.html (https://www.offroaddesign.com/1-zero-rate-add-a-leaf-kit-2-1-2-wide.html)
https://www.offroaddesign.com/1-zero-rate-add-a-leaf-kit-3-wide.html (https://www.offroaddesign.com/1-zero-rate-add-a-leaf-kit-3-wide.html)
Post by: Flyin6 on August 20, 2020, 04:43:46 PM
John was running into headwinds getting a triple disc converter for my 4L80 rebuild. I was going to have him just go through and strengthen and freshen the trans up while installing the billet converter.
His converter people didn't want to get into this fearing on one hand having to power along a 7K truck with a tall tire and a big gear, and then have that thing suddenly weigh 4K-10K more with the addition of a trailer. One or the other, but not both they sez.
So we started down the conversion to an allison rabbit hole when I did some more homework. Knowing the converter I was using was not much beyond a stocker with recontoured vanes, Nick has the thing programmed to not allow the converter to lock up at anything above 15% throttle!
BINGO! that solved the problem I think I am having with the thing always feeling like the crankshaft is connected to a five gallon jug of mustard instead of a transmission. It's been in slipomatic mode all the time and with so much horsepower, it can cause a converter's flash point to go much higher. I found out that this converter in my truck can flash to 4K under a big torque load.
So I just paid for a triple disc billet, furnace brazed, billet inside plate and everything else triple disc converter from Circle-D in the Texas. They are 4 weeks to build/ship so I'll have a wait, but I will soon have a good fix for that issue...YIPPEE!
This new converter is custom spected and I'm told is a 265MM unit with a 3,000 stall, triple disc, billet cover, billet innards, furnace brazed, that is designed to hold 1200HP and can take WOT lockup behind a LSA blower according to Dan the sames person.
Can't wait!
Post by: Sammconn on August 20, 2020, 05:57:02 PM
Post by: Bigdave_185 on August 20, 2020, 06:01:08 PM
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Post by: JR on August 20, 2020, 06:09:29 PM
3k stall sounds right, 15% throttle, thats close to idle!
Post by: Flyin6 on August 21, 2020, 10:14:26 AM
Mulch bed you mean??Exactly!
3k stall sounds right, 15% throttle, thats close to idle!
That's mostly responsible for making the thing feel like a slush bucket of soft butter konnektin the engine wit da back end.
They were concerned that the single clutch converter would not hold the power, and with a single 1" wide clutch, no way it would.
Post by: Flyin6 on August 22, 2020, 11:48:06 AM
With the parts all in from Summit Racing, I picked up an electric temp gage, Summit brand which has a recall, memory, turns on a warning light at your preselected temperature, and was inexpensive
Added to that is a boost gage and I threw in a fuel pressure gage I had cluttering a drawer of one of the storage cabinets
That all fits into a pillar gage holder also from Summit
Post by: Flyin6 on August 22, 2020, 11:51:26 AM
Showing first, then second, then a final "Dust" coat.
Post by: Flyin6 on August 22, 2020, 11:53:03 AM
The gages were mounted and the harness blended and made into one unit
Post by: Flyin6 on August 22, 2020, 11:54:13 AM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 22, 2020, 11:58:03 AM
Next I picked up a 1.5" aluminum cooling hose adapter to mount my two new sending units into.
I had to add a second 1/4" NPT hole to it.
This piece will house the fan driver sending unit and a seperate one for the temp gage.
Time to learn the truth about things...
Post by: Flyin6 on August 22, 2020, 11:59:08 AM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 22, 2020, 12:00:26 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 22, 2020, 12:01:32 PM
Post by: Bigdave_185 on August 22, 2020, 01:15:39 PM
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Post by: rpar86 on August 22, 2020, 05:26:29 PM
Post by: KensAuto on August 22, 2020, 07:48:34 PM
Post by: TexasRedNeck on August 22, 2020, 08:09:45 PM
Where were you before he did all that work? You’re fired!
Lol..
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Post by: dave945 on August 22, 2020, 10:28:11 PM
Why are the gauges clocked 90* clockwise? Is that so you can read them when rolled on your side? ;PBecause when he installed them in post #622 they looked just fine.
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Post by: Flyin6 on August 23, 2020, 09:19:05 AM
Don, mounting it in the radiator hose is no bueno. Needs to be in the block. Should be a spot in the right rear head, just like the one in the left front.Ken, Why is that?
The cyl head runs hotter, I think, so when mounting in the radiator hose, you just use a lower temp to initiate fan operation, right?
And I am providing a ground wire for the casting...
I thought that was the presiding theory I learned in the past somewhere.
Post by: Flyin6 on August 23, 2020, 09:43:35 AM
Why are the gauges clocked 90* clockwise? Is that so you can read them when rolled on your side? ;PAn old NVG flying trick
Our helicopters experimented with setting the gages so that nominal clock position, being straight up meant everything was normal
You don't spend a lot of time staring at gages trying to interpret them when cooking along at 300 feet and 130 knots sometimes in bad weather and below 30% ambient illumination...which is where we liked to fly the mostest
kause, when bad peeps kan't C-ya, they kan't hit ya
Anywho, a quick sweep of the engine instruments with everything pointing up and you knew the propulsion department was werkin jest as hard as you was...
See one pointed west, and it's an engine oil temp on number two, then there's a good chance something travellin' really fast made a hole somewhere and you are leaking engine blood, and you are about to become a single engine aircraft
So
This is
my first attempt
at
seein
if
eye
kan
set em up
ah-bout
the
same
way
Make cents?
Man, I'm on... with this dark french roast dis morn...! ;-)
Oh, and Ryan,
You're banned for some peroid of time I am yet to determine...standby for a standby, there might be a maybe concerning you bein' allow'd to re-enter this group of scholarle menses...
Really...Taking a shot at the boss?
(Just for clarification, am I the boss, right? (I'm really askin'...not sure half the time around here) or has one of U done something and unseated me???) (Not that I really care...me gettin fired means more time to bush hog! ;-))
Post by: JR on August 23, 2020, 01:55:24 PM
Don, mounting it in the radiator hose is no bueno. Needs to be in the block. Should be a spot in the right rear head, just like the one in the left front.
I said the same several posts ago. After the thermo is bad, you want "engine temp". Besides that those wires will get chaffed on the underside of the hood.
I understand the clocked position, but that is not right either on those, you messing with us. (their normal in 2nd pic)
Post by: KensAuto on August 23, 2020, 04:14:32 PM
Like JR said, if the tstat sticks, your engine could be running 260 and you'd never know it. That's why the factory sender is in the head (all temp senders are pre-thermostat). Fan probe can be radiator side tho. ... like where you have it in the hose.
Post by: Flyin6 on August 23, 2020, 10:12:35 PM
You want accurate, actual engine temp, at least for the gauge. The coolant in that hose could be 30* colder than engine temp, when it's not flowing.Ken, the way I look at this is like this. The factory gages are notoriously inaccurate. My generation burb/Silverado is known for failures. So why does it even matter if there is a gage or not?
Like JR said, if the tstat sticks, your engine could be running 260 and you'd never know it. That's why the factory sender is in the head (all temp senders are pre-thermostat). Fan probe can be radiator side tho. ... like where you have it in the hose.
I want to check for fan function so I want the temp sensor close to the one turning on/off the fan.
If a thermostat sticks, how would you know anyway with inaccurate GM gages? There is still a coolant hot idiot light, at least in my truck, so there is that. And how often do thermostats fail? I've been driving now, 50 years and I have never seen the first one fail. Maybe I'm just lucky?? Maybe so, do t-stats fail often? If so, I guess I just haven't seen or heard about it. Anyway for the reasons stated I need to leave things the way I have them arranged, but thanks for pointing out the deviation from normal! ;-)
Post by: Flyin6 on August 23, 2020, 10:14:50 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 23, 2020, 10:16:06 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 23, 2020, 10:17:21 PM
Mine had a nice crack going!
Post by: Flyin6 on August 23, 2020, 10:19:18 PM
It came out OK, but not perfect
Post by: Flyin6 on August 23, 2020, 10:20:50 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 23, 2020, 10:22:09 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 23, 2020, 10:24:19 PM
I hit the passenger airbag cover with it in place. No matter the overspray on the panel below, as it will be pulled and dyed another color
Post by: Flyin6 on August 23, 2020, 10:25:31 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 23, 2020, 10:27:20 PM
Post by: Bigdave_185 on August 23, 2020, 11:17:45 PM
What is the second color your going to do? Looks good.
You up for a scratch test? Fingernail drag across a panel and see what comes up?
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Post by: Flyin6 on August 24, 2020, 09:44:15 AM
Are you going the change the headliner?Headliner: No, stays as is forever
What is the second color your going to do? Looks good.
You up for a scratch test? Fingernail drag across a panel and see what comes up?
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Second color is the one I posted of the BMW interior. And a third color, Black
Scratch test: Already done, many times. Those metal prongs on the backside of the dash bezel scraped across the top and some trim pieces...Nothing! I had a bad spot where there must have been a drop of sweat beneath the spray. That flaked right off, but when I tried to rub the stuff down either side of the blemish it was so hard to remove I had to rub it almost to burning it to get it to lift at all. Nossir, this stuff goes on and its permanent.
Post by: Bigdave_185 on August 24, 2020, 10:07:11 AM
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Post by: cj7ox on August 24, 2020, 01:00:55 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 24, 2020, 03:17:50 PM
Picture of can please? Product namePost #643
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https://www.colorbondpaint.com/
Post by: Flyin6 on August 27, 2020, 07:23:22 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 27, 2020, 07:24:21 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 27, 2020, 07:25:58 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 27, 2020, 07:27:35 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 27, 2020, 07:37:45 PM
I watched the temp gage tick up toward 185, where I have the fan set to turn on, and it did just where I set it, exactly where the temp gage was pointing.
Now, having said that, only one fan turned on, so it seems I still have some problem associated with the fans themselves. Since this was a used setup I installed some time ago, I think I just might replace it with a new Dorman unit just to be safe
Post by: Flyin6 on August 27, 2020, 07:40:27 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 28, 2020, 06:40:09 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 28, 2020, 06:41:38 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 28, 2020, 06:43:45 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 28, 2020, 06:46:08 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 28, 2020, 06:48:17 PM
I went with black on the seat belt for contrast
Post by: Flyin6 on August 28, 2020, 06:50:13 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 28, 2020, 06:51:19 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 28, 2020, 06:53:42 PM
Looking at the carpet, I can change the color as well if I choose. I think the center console will be a combination of black and tobacco so a black matching carpet would work, but then again so would the original color...thinking...
Post by: rpar86 on August 28, 2020, 09:03:01 PM
I like the Caddy cinnamon, but not sure about the BMW... but not my truck ;)
Post by: JR on August 28, 2020, 09:11:54 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 29, 2020, 10:25:35 AM
Those are technically e-torx (external). A standard socket works in a pinch, but enough times in and out you run the risk of rounding it off.I just like that color. And its hard to argue just how well this paint/dye works on leather. he seats are coming out great.
I like the Caddy cinnamon, but not sure about the BMW... but not my truck ;)
I guess the real test is in how it all holds up, and only time will tell.
Post by: Flyin6 on September 03, 2020, 09:09:13 PM
I finally got the first seat finished and assembled
Post by: Flyin6 on September 03, 2020, 09:10:04 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on September 03, 2020, 09:12:21 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on September 03, 2020, 09:13:16 PM
Post by: dave945 on September 03, 2020, 09:14:25 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on September 03, 2020, 09:15:35 PM
Continuing to spray other trim pieces and getting closer all the time. Still a lot of work remaining though
Post by: Flyin6 on September 03, 2020, 09:15:59 PM
Looks good DonThank ya
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Post by: oklawall on September 04, 2020, 10:18:58 AM
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Post by: Flyin6 on September 04, 2020, 11:02:13 AM
What is the fee for bringing my truck over and you doing the same. I will supply the paint? LOLNo, ya got it all wrong. I write this stuff up to empower you to do it yourself. Not really hard, just a lot of work. You kept the wings attached to go-fast things, a truck interior should be a walk in the park!
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Have fun
Post by: Flyin6 on September 05, 2020, 11:50:42 AM
That caused me an hours long setback where I had to remove the material and start almost from scratch. Speaking of scratch, I sanded the whole thing, then cleaned and cleaned
Note here: This process can get to be very labor intensive. Although it produces great results, plan to spend a good amount of time, on prep
Post by: Flyin6 on September 05, 2020, 11:52:17 AM
And this time everything worked great
Post by: Flyin6 on September 05, 2020, 11:54:19 AM
I started reassembly of the dash and console, getting this far:
Post by: Bigdave_185 on September 05, 2020, 12:07:55 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on September 05, 2020, 09:28:59 PM
Your not going to do a carpet color change?No, I thought that keeping things lighter might help me find things in low illum, and it matches the headliner.
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Post by: Flyin6 on September 05, 2020, 09:30:56 PM
Pics with and without flash
Post by: Flyin6 on September 05, 2020, 09:32:17 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on September 05, 2020, 09:34:25 PM
Figure I'd paint the insert, allow to dry overnight then tape off in the morning and paint the rest of the panel
Post by: Flyin6 on September 05, 2020, 09:35:38 PM
Post by: TexasRedNeck on September 06, 2020, 05:28:16 AM
It's just a lot of work...Much more than I initially figuredIsn’t that the usual pattern around here!
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Post by: stlaser on September 06, 2020, 08:19:50 AM
Post by: Flyin6 on September 06, 2020, 07:04:14 PM
The new fans came in so right after the interior, they need to go in, and I still need to plumb for a boost gage signal, then get Nick to adjust the tune based on what I have learned recently and get back to driving it.
The door panel turned out great. That BMW cinnamon color is striking against the tobacco background.
Post by: Flyin6 on September 06, 2020, 07:05:39 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on September 06, 2020, 07:06:41 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on September 06, 2020, 07:07:30 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on September 06, 2020, 07:09:55 PM
But the work goes on, and ever closer to being done.
Tires still haven't sold and still in the way
Tomorrow is farm work, trading tractor time for sweaty garage time
Post by: cruizng on September 07, 2020, 09:29:46 AM
And here with the just finished drivers seat:Looking sharp! A lot of work for sure.
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Post by: wyorunner on September 07, 2020, 03:52:53 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on September 08, 2020, 03:00:55 PM
What is this fogging cosmoline product? Did I miss it earlier? I have to agree that the door panel turned out really nice.Goes by different names, T. This can is called cavity coater. I purchased it before at the paint supply store where it was called liquid amber. Same stuff. Cosmoline suspended in a solvent that gets it into all the nooks and crannies, then that stuff evaps off and you're left with a multi decade air barrier.
Post by: JR on September 08, 2020, 03:05:25 PM
Post by: wyorunner on September 09, 2020, 03:09:24 AM
Thanks Chief,What is this fogging cosmoline product? Did I miss it earlier? I have to agree that the door panel turned out really nice.Goes by different names, T. This can is called cavity coater. I purchased it before at the paint supply store where it was called liquid amber. Same stuff. Cosmoline suspended in a solvent that gets it into all the nooks and crannies, then that stuff evaps off and you're left with a multi decade air barrier.
I’ll begin the search here. I’d like to keep this old dodge as rust free as possible. I’ve not looked for it before, but this climate here durn near requires it.
Post by: TexasRedNeck on September 09, 2020, 07:26:50 AM
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Post by: Flyin6 on September 09, 2020, 10:14:04 AM
Post by: Flyin6 on September 09, 2020, 10:16:42 AM
https://www.amazon.com/Cosmoline-RP-342-Rust-Preventative-Military-Grade/dp/B01MRRYDMZ/ref=sr_1_16?dchild=1&keywords=cavity+wax&qid=1599660873&sr=8-16
Post by: Bigdave_185 on September 09, 2020, 02:29:45 PM
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Post by: JR on September 09, 2020, 02:45:00 PM
https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-internal-frame-coating-14oz-aerosol.html
Post by: Flyin6 on September 09, 2020, 04:57:03 PM
And what is the purpose of that inside the doors? Rust prevention in the doors?Yes,
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States who use salt
The residue will accumulate inside the pinch weld lower sections of the door.
Keep the doors and rockers and wheel wells flushed, have them sealed with something like this, and make sure they can drain and you won't have any rust.
Post by: Flyin6 on September 11, 2020, 07:42:54 PM
No pics
Can't find my camera...
Looked in all the suspect places, under my tires, under the mower, in the trash, out in the lawn, in the pond...and I can't find it. Can't imagine it being anywhere else!
Post by: JR on September 11, 2020, 09:34:43 PM
Have you towed the new trailer yet?
Post by: dave945 on September 11, 2020, 09:59:19 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on September 12, 2020, 03:09:17 PM
Never guess where?
On a shelf!
Hidin' in plain sight :facepalm:
Post by: Flyin6 on September 12, 2020, 03:13:57 PM
And the drivers door panel
Post by: Flyin6 on September 12, 2020, 03:15:20 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on September 12, 2020, 03:16:52 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on September 12, 2020, 03:18:28 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on September 12, 2020, 03:20:11 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on September 12, 2020, 03:20:40 PM
Post by: Farmer Jon on September 13, 2020, 09:32:14 AM
Post by: Flyin6 on September 13, 2020, 12:41:16 PM
I love the seats.Glad you do, I do too
Wife hates them. Says the color is awful
Good!
Means she won't be borrowing my burb!
Ha!
Post by: JR on September 13, 2020, 01:12:10 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on September 13, 2020, 01:33:04 PM
Well, she has a new truck, right?Sure does
And I have to say, that Titan V8 is one of the best sorted out vehicles I have ever owned. Truly a luxury car and a truck well blended
Post by: Flyin6 on September 14, 2020, 10:48:17 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on September 14, 2020, 10:51:36 PM
I am happy with the results
Post by: Flyin6 on September 14, 2020, 10:52:27 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on September 14, 2020, 10:53:33 PM
And went right in with no fuss at all
Post by: Flyin6 on September 14, 2020, 11:00:18 PM
It blew a second, then a third time.
After that and now on my forth 30 amp mini fuse, I checked all connections and ran the test again. This time I got the system to cycle correctly four different concurrent times. I am wondering why these 30 amp fuses are blowing. If you'll recall, the other stockish chevy system which featured 30 amp breakers were popping like a kettle of pop-corn on movie night. They were anything but reliable.
So what in the heck can be wrong??? I have good connections, I have what I think is a good ground. I have 14 gage wire run as a ground and at the moment I am eyeing that as a possibility. With a ground wire too small (If it actually is) the load wire would have to spike as it loaded up. But, this ground wire is not the same one that existed with the old system, so it may very well not be that either.
Did someone place a curse on my truck by chance?
Post by: Bigdave_185 on September 14, 2020, 11:10:51 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on September 14, 2020, 11:19:29 PM
Does your ground wire feel hot at all?Didn't check, but the fuse was darned hot.
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Post by: rpar86 on September 15, 2020, 12:04:25 AM
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/amps-wire-gauge-d_730.html
Post by: TexasRedNeck on September 15, 2020, 06:45:17 AM
If you have an ammeter check to see how many amps it’s pulling. For that test you might make a direct connection to the battery without the relay. Ideally you’d have a clamp on induction ammeter with peak hold but you can make due with a multimeter.
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Post by: Sammconn on September 15, 2020, 10:24:00 AM
10 would be better.
Like others have said get a good clean connection.
The 14 is definitely too small for the sake of having a fire.
Find the actual load also.
You may need to go to #8 and 40amp fuses if it’s actually seeing 30.
The motor start draw will be at the root of the trips.
Post by: Flyin6 on September 15, 2020, 11:06:19 AM
In a vehicle they’ll put 12 all day for 30 amps.Thanks all!
10 would be better.
Like others have said get a good clean connection.
The 14 is definitely too small for the sake of having a fire.
Find the actual load also.
You may need to go to #8 and 40amp fuses if it’s actually seeing 30.
The motor start draw will be at the root of the trips.
Good sound advice
Definitely the motor start. I witnessed the second motor just starting and the fuse went Ka-pow!
Upsizing the wire in a few minutes.
Post by: JR on September 15, 2020, 01:48:04 PM
Post by: TexasRedNeck on September 16, 2020, 08:43:20 AM
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Post by: Flyin6 on September 16, 2020, 11:53:17 AM
I think we have established the need for a more robust ground
Looking further, I have found no GM fans requiring more than 30 amps of circuit protection, so I feel I am good there.
Some of these fans will draw a ton of amperage, especially if both are switched on at the same time. But this Davis-Craig system provides for a 10 second delay to start the second fan.
What I did discover is that there are slow blow fuses that are designed to handle amperage draws beyond their design limit for a short period of time and were created to fuse link electric motors that require a large amp draw for starting.
They do not come in mini-fuse configuration, so I ordered two maxi-fuse holders and a pack of the 30 amp slow burn fuses. I'll solder them in when they get here.
Hopefully this will put to bed once and for all this pesky cooling fan issue.
Post by: JR on September 16, 2020, 01:41:02 PM
Post by: Bigdave_185 on September 16, 2020, 05:21:22 PM
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Post by: TexasRedNeck on September 16, 2020, 07:33:58 PM
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Post by: KensAuto on September 16, 2020, 10:54:20 PM
Post by: KensAuto on September 16, 2020, 11:02:16 PM
I'm going to try and link a schematic but may not work
Post by: TexasRedNeck on September 17, 2020, 07:56:48 AM
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Post by: akcooper9 on September 17, 2020, 09:49:47 AM
Here is the fan harness I use and have zero issues with: https://www.bp-automotive.com/product/1999-2006-gm-trucksuv-fan-harness/
The PCM should do all of the 'trigger' work for turning the fans on and off etc
Post by: Flyin6 on September 17, 2020, 10:21:47 AM
That should be 30a fuse (Maxi) for each fan, minimum 12g per fan (2-12g grounds, 2-12g powers)Copy that, two maxi slow-blow 30 amp fuse/holders inbound
Post by: Flyin6 on September 17, 2020, 10:23:31 AM
^^^Scratch that. Just realized that if you're using an oem style, I would assume you ordered one for a '07+new body style. Those things eat up the amps....they run on 40amp fuses, which means 40amp relays as well.No, not the 07 and newer. Dorman replacement for the 2003 or 04...Whichever year the electric fans started. And to fit the large 34" radiator
I'm going to try and link a schematic but may not work
Post by: KensAuto on September 17, 2020, 10:26:03 AM
Post by: Flyin6 on September 17, 2020, 10:28:11 AM
If you have the fans install and powered 'like' stock efan vehciles both fans should come on at the same one. There should be two speeds (Low and High)...I don't
Here is the fan harness I use and have zero issues with: https://www.bp-automotive.com/product/1999-2006-gm-trucksuv-fan-harness/
The PCM should do all of the 'trigger' work for turning the fans on and off etc
But that is one high quality looking harness right there!
I canned the factory setup as it proved to be unreliable
I have a Davis-Craig (Made in Australia) fan controller.
Runs two fans
Turns on first fan at target temperature
Delays 10 sec
Turns on second fan after delay
Runs until engine cools to 5F below target temp
Has two independent circuits
Each has its own 30 amp fuse, big-ole-fat wires
Post by: Flyin6 on September 17, 2020, 10:30:00 AM
Sorry, don't remember any having electric fans until the NBS. Maybe it was all the whiskey.I actually think the 02 was the last year for the clutch fan. 03 and later were electric.
The guys who sell the salvaged GM fans to retrofit earlier vehicles all use 30 amp fuses or circuit breakers
Post by: KensAuto on September 17, 2020, 10:33:59 AM
Guess it doesn't matter, you have them now!
Just putting this here for future reference. ('05-up electric on 1500s)
Not important, but notice how the low speed works on the factory setup. They run power through the fans in series to drop the voltage in half. Hence the 3 relays.
Post by: Sammconn on September 17, 2020, 12:32:43 PM
Post by: Nate on September 17, 2020, 01:07:39 PM
Post by: JR on September 17, 2020, 01:46:16 PM
Post by: Bigdave_185 on September 17, 2020, 09:46:19 PM
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Post by: TexasRedNeck on September 18, 2020, 12:19:16 AM
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Post by: Flyin6 on September 18, 2020, 03:08:22 PM
Don, you sure that Aussie controller is spinning them in the right direction and not backwards?Yep, sure am
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When they are on, you can REALLY feel it blowing aft over the engine.
Has me thinking if some fender side vents or hood louvers would give all that air some more ways to exit.
Post by: Bigdave_185 on September 18, 2020, 11:37:53 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on September 19, 2020, 10:30:05 AM
Just take the hood off^^^^^You people see that right there!
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Think we are witnessing symptoms of DS disease right here
"Dave Syndrome" Makes people who suffer the malady seem all backwards, and goofy! It is said that some people sufferin' the deadly disease appear to been born without a brane!
Ya, I know I misspell'd brain. May be sufferin' from DS a little bit meself...
Another symptom is running over expensive things that you own ;-)
Post by: Bigdave_185 on September 19, 2020, 10:38:47 AM
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Post by: Flyin6 on September 19, 2020, 08:55:44 PM
So today I rewired the fans again. Here is the bracket I made up to hold the maxi fuses. Just look at the size of those things and the thickness of the wire!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 19, 2020, 08:56:44 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on September 19, 2020, 08:58:02 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on September 19, 2020, 08:59:20 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on September 19, 2020, 09:04:17 PM
I ran it for awhile with not so much as a hint of trouble. Fan one is on at 186F, then fan two ten seconds later. Both run until the temp reduces to 180 which takes about 20 seconds. Then the fans switch off and the temp continues to fall as low as 174, then the cycle repeats itself. I went through 4-5 evolutions with not so much as a hint of trouble. I may have this issue put to bed.
I now have to tuck the bottom of the wheel well and well liner in a little bit and pin it. The tires are catching the lower edge now with the larger diameter. With that (tomorrow hopefully) It will go off to get some more dyno time and that will more or less finish it until I get back to changing more things up.
Post by: Flyin6 on September 21, 2020, 07:53:24 PM
You can see the scrape marks, but what you can't see is how the tire actually grabbed the inner fender liner and pulled it forward onto the top of the tire going in a forward direction.
Post by: Flyin6 on September 21, 2020, 07:54:36 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on September 21, 2020, 07:56:26 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on September 21, 2020, 07:58:19 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on September 21, 2020, 08:01:35 PM
I liberally coated all surfaces with the Cosmoline cavity wax
Post by: Flyin6 on September 21, 2020, 08:02:58 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on September 21, 2020, 08:04:16 PM
Post by: JR on September 21, 2020, 08:45:15 PM
Fender fix, did that years ago on mine, works good. I covered everything in undercoating.
Post by: Flyin6 on September 22, 2020, 03:12:36 PM
You removed the battery (post 756) for all the wiring? Those are massive fuses, hope that is the real issue.Most of the battery stuff is gone, but the hot cable makes for a good place to connect for power so it remains, although well covered.
Fender fix, did that years ago on mine, works good. I covered everything in undercoating.
Post by: JR on September 22, 2020, 03:18:36 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on December 03, 2020, 03:48:50 PM
I was still experiencing an intermittent fan operational problem. So, I threw in the towel and took it over to Duane the electrical guru at the local Cadilliac store. He can find a grain of salt in a snow storm! Its uncanny how good he is with electrical issues. It's interesting to watch as he will have wiring schematics, illustrations all over along with his and GM's testing equipment.
He investigated the problem and narrowed it down to an ohm reading that was different on either side of a connector. He pulled the pins and found where insufficient tinning caused by a wire that was just a size or two too small was causing the connection to fail when it had a significant load, kind of like a fuse that blows, but then welds itself back together when the truck cools off. Duane replaced the wiring and the pins and resoldered and just like that the problems have ceased to be.
The truck was fully up with no real issues to speak of. I started driving it here and there, nervous of a possible failure in some traffic jam on a single lane on some bridge near here that mysteriously burned up a month ago, but none of that materialized. The truck just keeps running. I have been turning it into my daily driver ever since the oil leak developed on the D-Max, because I am too lazy at the moment to crawl all over it in the freezing cold.
The burb is really running well! Now that I am driving it more, it seems to be settling down. Do those generation computers learn? Anyway, the mileage is nothing to write anyone about, and it is a bit noisy, and going over 65 is something it does with protest, but aside from that, it starts every time. It is also comfortable to drive, has a really tight turning radius (Because I accidentally filed away the steering stops...or maybe it was intentional) and has pretty good power. I am going to have it tuned again to change some transmission parameters which will make it even better and I just ordered a 30" long round dynomax super turbo muffler. I want some rumble, but not all that much, and a mo-quiterer ride. I think I may pick up some dyno-mat and cover the floor to get it even mo-quieterer.
All in all I am digging my "new" ride.
Post by: JR on December 03, 2020, 05:26:19 PM
You know you could always go up a tire size to help with RPM. I thought those 488 would be a little low.
Post by: Flyin6 on December 03, 2020, 06:38:41 PM
Like to hear more about the oil leak, saw the new tires too. I would really like to find a tuner for mine, just not happy with current tune.I can't go above 37" JR. These are the largest thing which will reasonably fit without cutting and lifting and creating a clown truck. If anything I'd like to lower it 1-2".
You know you could always go up a tire size to help with RPM. I thought those 488 would be a little low.
Oil leak looks like it from this really hard to get to nipple/rubber hose on the side of the front cover. It's a bear to get to and I am not completely sure that is the source. It's just that its been freezing cold, and I have to start with cleaning (water) before repairing. That and I am just about 100% done with having to constantly fix things all the time.
Post by: Flyin6 on December 04, 2020, 03:04:47 PM
Anyway, right away, I noticed the Burb was having zero problem with any of it. Next I noticed how smooth the thing was in the rough areas. I never knew this about the Suburban before. I had this big grin while I drove through mud holes over rocks, and even crossed some wet and slick cross slope. That burb made it all seem easy. I am genuinely surprised and impressed with how well the suspension and big tires work with the 4.88's and the torque curve of the motor. It is a dream to drive on semi wicked trails and I can see it being a great tow vehicle with the abundance of torque.
No pics...I didn't intend to make it a play day, just spending a bunch of money on red colored diesel fuel. Paid 2.08 a gallon and only spent a little over $760.
Post by: Flyin6 on December 10, 2020, 07:02:59 PM
The DynoMax has a 3" "turbo muffler" design with 3" internal piping and is 30" long. It has considerably more volume than the magnaflow it replaces
The goal is to get a quieter cruise and just less overall noise output.
Post by: Flyin6 on December 10, 2020, 07:04:59 PM
It sounds authoritative but idles more quietly than before
Post by: Flyin6 on December 10, 2020, 07:06:48 PM
Post by: stlaser on December 10, 2020, 09:18:30 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on December 11, 2020, 10:28:17 AM
Why not dump the exhaust out the rear? Looks like that broken dogs hind leg shaped exit pipe is a little low for comfort?I don't think I have enough room to throw the exhaust over the axle because of the panhard bar and relocated shocks.
Broken dog hind leg is not all that low and actually moved upward a bit from where it has been.
That dog does have a bark though, and the warrant officer does not so much like it...
Post by: Bigdave_185 on December 12, 2020, 11:08:31 AM
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Post by: JR on December 12, 2020, 12:56:50 PM
Post by: Bigdave_185 on December 12, 2020, 01:21:18 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on December 12, 2020, 08:29:30 PM
and
The pre-Ranger loves the sound his truck now makes with the Magnaflow tucked up in his frame rails.
Post by: stlaser on December 12, 2020, 08:47:37 PM
Bottom line is that the Burb just got a bunch more powerful.
Did I miss the coffee can exhaust tip install? :huh:
Post by: TexasRedNeck on December 13, 2020, 07:49:33 AM
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Post by: Flyin6 on December 13, 2020, 10:40:23 AM
So many people to fire...so little time - Don HarwardI need to hire a managing executive to take care of em'
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Tex, would you be up to the task?
Post by: KensAuto on December 13, 2020, 03:25:43 PM
How's a manager fire himself?So many people to fire...so little time - Don HarwardI need to hire a managing executive to take care of em'
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Tex, would you be up to the task?
Conflict of interest if you ask me.
Post by: Flyin6 on December 28, 2020, 05:20:32 PM
After driving it for awhile now, most everything is working except for some buzz in the stereo. I think I may have missed hooking a ground back up after the interior re-do, so I'll search after that tomorrow.
A persistent problem has been with highway cruising. Although it will cruise at 80 mph, the RPM is just too high, above 2500. Therefore I am making the switch down one notch to 4.56. I ordered the front gear and bearings from Tate, Randy's worldwide and for the rear axle I'm doing something pretty cool.
The D80 is huge, as in big and heavy, so I'm pulling it out for good. I contacted Shawn, Great Lakes Off Road to build me a proper 14 bolt silverado axle setup. Using Yukon gear stuff, he will add the new 4.56 gears to a Dura-Trac diff and do some mild reconditioning then ship it to me.
So why swap from a D80? Well several reasons. First the D80 is very heavy, and is sucking up a bunch of horsepower accelerating that mass which costs me fuel mileage and performance. Secondly, I have not had an emergency brake since I removed the problematic hydraulic shunt valve. I had four different lines on that setup and all of them leaked, so I pulled it and have been without the parking brake ever since. I will now get that back.
I'll let Shawn talk up the axle build details but that is all we have on that front at the minute.
Next the truck is going to go through another tune session. I have identified a bunch of little things that need to be adjusted to dial this thing in a little better.
I will be removing the roof tent since I am just not using it and have the camper to sleep in if needed, and it will reduce weight and get that weight off the roof.
All in all the suburban rides and operates very nicely, but these and another big change I have not mentioned will add to the drivability and fun factor a bunch more.
Post by: JR on December 28, 2020, 05:49:28 PM
You will like the 4.56 better too. I turn 2k at 70 with the 35s, but I have double OD too.
I bet that camper causes more drag than the weight issue, but both will help.
Part what now.
Post by: stlaser on December 28, 2020, 06:32:09 PM
Then from our very own Tate @ Randy’s Ring & Pinion we’ll source some new internals. As stated it will be a Yukon dura trac carrier which should lend itself well into this vehicle and its capabilities. The 4.56 R&P with extended warranty’s on it and the carrier will be added because well it’s for Don. I think the why is self explanatory, enough said....
I’ll go thru all the bearings with new Timken units and add a Yukon crush sleeve eliminator to solve any future issues with Dons right foot and pinion preload, this also makes servicing the pinion seal in the future much easier.
Finally we’ll add a GLO HD cover, lube locker gasket and some GLO ujoint girdles for that 1410 yoke.
I’ll crate it up and send it Dons way. Pictures of build to follow shortly.
Post by: TexasRedNeck on December 28, 2020, 08:08:44 PM
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Post by: stlaser on December 28, 2020, 09:01:43 PM
Some alien abduction? Don is starting to think more practically.....
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So the Dana 80, 4” axle tubes and 11.25” ring gear versus 14 bolt with 10.5” ring gear and 3.5” axle tubes. Down side of 80 imo is worse ground clearance and pinion bearings always seem to get wiped out, plus lack of extra pinion bearings support.
Tate, what’s your thoughts?
Post by: KensAuto on December 28, 2020, 11:05:27 PM
Post by: Bigdave_185 on December 28, 2020, 11:26:51 PM
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Post by: stlaser on December 28, 2020, 11:31:12 PM
I can't believe he's going to get any kind of warranty, especially an extended version!
Ken, Tate sells a quality product and I stand behind my work so we feel confident in that warranty. Not sure how shops do it in Southern AZ but it doesn’t sound like you have much faith in your work? :popcorn:
Post by: Flyin6 on December 29, 2020, 10:48:06 AM
You gonna put that 80 in the 6.0 boys truck?I'm gonna to put it up for sale!
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Post by: KensAuto on December 29, 2020, 01:09:03 PM
Not that at all. Plenty of faith in Tate's products. I just have zero faith in your shipping ability, and Don's right foot!I can't believe he's going to get any kind of warranty, especially an extended version!
Ken, Tate sells a quality product and I stand behind my work so we feel confident in that warranty. Not sure how shops do it in Southern AZ but it doesn’t sound like you have much faith in your work? :popcorn:
;P
Post by: EL TATE on December 29, 2020, 01:33:38 PM
OK, back at it for the next round of modifications.
After driving it for awhile now, most everything is working except for some buzz in the stereo. I think I may have missed hooking a ground back up after the interior re-do, so I'll search after that tomorrow.
A persistent problem has been with highway cruising. Although it will cruise at 80 mph, the RPM is just too high, above 2500. Therefore I am making the switch down one notch to 4.56. I ordered the front gear and bearings from Tate, Randy's worldwide and for the rear axle I'm doing something pretty cool.
The D80 is huge, as in big and heavy, so I'm pulling it out for good. I contacted Shawn, Great Lakes Off Road to build me a proper 14 bolt silverado axle setup. Using Yukon gear stuff, he will add the new 4.56 gears to a Dura-Trac diff and do some mild reconditioning then ship it to me.
So why swap from a D80? Well several reasons. First the D80 is very heavy, and is sucking up a bunch of horsepower accelerating that mass which costs me fuel mileage and performance. Secondly, I have not had an emergency brake since I removed the problematic hydraulic shunt valve. I had four different lines on that setup and all of them leaked, so I pulled it and have been without the parking brake ever since. I will now get that back.
I'll let Shawn talk up the axle build details but that is all we have on that front at the minute.
Next the truck is going to go through another tune session. I have identified a bunch of little things that need to be adjusted to dial this thing in a little better.
I will be removing the roof tent since I am just not using it and have the camper to sleep in if needed, and it will reduce weight and get that weight off the roof.
All in all the suburban rides and operates very nicely, but these and another big change I have not mentioned will add to the drivability and fun factor a bunch more.
***WAIT TO TUNE IT UNTIL AFTER THE RE-GEAR***
Post by: Sammconn on December 29, 2020, 02:37:41 PM
Or you’ll be redoing it again.
Insert definition of insanity here...
Post by: JR on December 29, 2020, 03:07:03 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on January 03, 2021, 05:35:01 PM
First, I have the front gear and bearing kit from Tate at Randy's Worldwide.
I think Shawn has the rear axle purchase in the pipeline
And this: I have been thinking about getting into engine tuning with HP Tuner
I joined up at the web site and have been studying non stop. From what I have read, I can see a bunch of things to look at.
I can remove some of the torque converter lockup which I think Nick set at a super conservative 10% what that means in real-life operation is that the truck almost never slips into lockup in overdrive resulting in higher RPM all the time and that has a lot to do with the fuel consumption. Secondly it is acting up at idle when cold ever since the change of Throttle bodies. I can smooth that out
When you stand on it, the motor takes a long time to build power and I am thinking there is not enough throttle enrichment happening. From what I've read, this is the number one source of power in these trucks. The factory has virtually none and tuners add more based on what the wide band is telling them and gains of 50HP are well within grasp with this LS motor.
I can do so many things and be able to make adjustments whenever I like, so I am definitely considering throwing down the cash and start tuning. That and I want to tune my boys Vortec-Max and bolt in the big torque cam I didn't use when the supercharger got installed. So, for so many reasons, including being able to tune Duramax and other diesels, I think I am about to hit the order button.
And, I have been working on a surprise addition, well, two of them, for this truck...
Post by: stlaser on January 03, 2021, 05:38:37 PM
Post by: Bigdave_185 on January 03, 2021, 09:50:26 PM
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Post by: stlaser on January 03, 2021, 10:01:24 PM
Your taking the roof rack off! Adding a full soft top convertible roof!?!?yes!
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As long as it’s not called the tac topper II
Post by: Bigdave_185 on January 03, 2021, 10:07:43 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on January 03, 2021, 10:10:09 PM
I just want a retractable rag top so you can have the wind in your hair feeling. No gun mounts or anythingOK, no gun mounts
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Post by: rpar86 on January 03, 2021, 11:13:15 PM
*exits stage left*
Post by: JR on January 04, 2021, 12:01:08 AM
Post by: wyorunner on January 04, 2021, 01:59:31 AM
Well there goes calling it the SOF top.I just want a retractable rag top so you can have the wind in your hair feeling. No gun mounts or anythingOK, no gun mounts
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Post by: Flyin6 on January 04, 2021, 08:41:56 AM
Post by: Bigdave_185 on January 04, 2021, 09:31:14 AM
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Post by: Flyin6 on January 04, 2021, 11:06:10 AM
I would call it a spirited conversation of fun ideas and an expansion of artistic design for your vehicle is all, not a disasterThat's a mouthful...and probably correct.
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I pulled the trigger and purchased the HP Tuners setup. I will still visit Nick to dyno, but with the wealth of information and established tunes for everything including additions of a coffee can exhaust tip and a cat on the dash! I will have the ability to make small incremental changes to sneak up on the perfect tune for this truck. In time, I'll be able to tune all of your trucks as well.
Post by: Flyin6 on January 04, 2021, 11:17:20 AM
Looking down the road I have several things in the works
Obviously we have the change to 4.56 and the installation of a more "Sane" 14 bolt sourced from GLO. That gets me in the right RPM range to cruise at 75, and still have a lot of grunt to pull the camper, and I'll lose a bunch of weight.
Next, I'll dump the roof top tent and awning to save weight and move the awnings over to the camper to make that into a base camp. That pulls even more weight off the burb.
In the spirit of weight savings I'll remove a lot of unnecessary stuff for daily driving, adding it back for planned trips as necessary with the goal of taking off weight and conversely increasing performance and drivability.
I am actively locally hunting an LQ-9 or L76, 6.0 aluminum block engine. I plan to stroke that from somewhere from 408"-427" and build a solid boost friendly block. I think I'll add square port ported heads or possibly some Trick-Flow ones because of the thicker deck. That will get studs, a bigger cam and that should do it for the basis of 700 ish ft./lbs. at the wheel which is my goal. That engine will additionally lose 110 lbs from the front end of my pretty heavy Suburban.
I'll tune and adjust along the way to get me closer all the time to what I believe is the perfect overlander.
Post by: Bigdave_185 on January 04, 2021, 11:19:51 AM
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Post by: Flyin6 on January 04, 2021, 11:28:18 AM
Is this the makings of the third motor going into this?technically, the second
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Original motor was pulled to make it easier to freshen up/clean/paint.
I can see the current motor finding a home in the pre-ranger's truck
Post by: JR on January 04, 2021, 01:47:56 PM
I think a Durasub would have been cheaper in the long run,,,,,,,,,
Post by: stlaser on January 06, 2021, 05:49:45 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210106/c799ceb0b3ece08f07fe410a768109d2.jpg)
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Headed to blaster in morning
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Post by: JR on January 06, 2021, 06:57:00 PM
Post by: stlaser on January 06, 2021, 07:08:00 PM
They sure munched those plates!
I typically do not run them, but w/o rotors what do you expect with a 16ga circle of sheet metal holding up a 400# axle?
Post by: JR on January 06, 2021, 07:15:54 PM
Post by: dave945 on January 06, 2021, 07:31:29 PM
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Post by: stlaser on January 06, 2021, 09:11:50 PM
I notice you’re missing the drums and shoes, I’ll send you the ones off mine. I need to change out to disc brakes anyways. I don’t mind helping Don out that way.
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Negative, this is a disc brake 14 bolt. What you see currently are the pads that slip inside the rotors for the e brake mechanism. Don has a new fancy set of rotors and calipers on the 80 which he wanted to try and make work. So we chose to send axle to him minus the calipers snd rotors. If he can’t get his setup to work he can always then spend money to buy oem units.
Post by: stlaser on January 16, 2021, 10:53:45 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210116/f41bb81fa3d5af9faa56379425fe119e.jpg)
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So started off the morning working on Dons soon to be new axle. The housing is ready for pickup at blaster weather permitting Monday. So started to assemble what I can ahead of time.
Tate of Randy’s Ring & Pinion fame set us up with some new goodies. The carrier is a Yukon Dura Grip to alleviate any potential mulch bed incidents. Added a set of 4.56 gears to drop the rpms into range and finished my coffee with some 120 ft lbs of arm curls.
All is well in the world ‘er at least my shop for now.....
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Post by: dave945 on January 16, 2021, 11:11:08 AM
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Post by: Bigdave_185 on January 16, 2021, 11:24:05 AM
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Post by: stlaser on January 16, 2021, 11:47:28 AM
Did you use blue or red loctite. Asking for a friend.
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The stuff in that red bottle in the picture, if you’re color blind my apologies. If not we’ll chalk it up to Dave question of the day...... :tongue:
Post by: Bigdave_185 on January 16, 2021, 05:46:50 PM
Blue locktite and red loctite all come in a red bottle.Did you use blue or red loctite. Asking for a friend.
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The stuff in that red bottle in the picture, if you’re color blind my apologies. If not we’ll chalk it up to Dave question of the day...... :tongue:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210116/10a0a1a8c58afdc0f792540a6302d4ea.jpg)
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Post by: rpar86 on January 16, 2021, 08:54:10 PM
Post by: stlaser on January 16, 2021, 09:23:41 PM
Post by: JR on January 17, 2021, 04:01:48 PM
You know the new axles pictured are trailer axles? I think the one up top might be some better.
Post by: stlaser on January 17, 2021, 04:10:44 PM
There are diff reds too.
You know the new axles pictured are trailer axles? I think the one up top might be some better.
Congratulations you knuckleheads have turned something simple as threadlocker into its own DOT moment. :knucklehead:
Worth noting the cab bolts on my Ford which took heat to remove, the locker on the threads was blue colored. So what does color have to do with it I’m not really sure. Thanks for sucking me into this rabbit hole....... :facepalm:
Post by: Bigdave_185 on January 17, 2021, 04:42:02 PM
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Post by: dave945 on January 17, 2021, 04:49:13 PM
There are diff reds too.I just said Don might have decided to go in a different direction with the axle, I didn’t say it was a good/smart one.
You know the new axles pictured are trailer axles? I think the one up top might be some better.
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Post by: stlaser on January 17, 2021, 05:10:37 PM
Your as bad as black hole as any of us
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I’m not sure what that means but Ken asked his GF and she’s pretty sure it’s wacist
Post by: oklawall on January 17, 2021, 06:02:44 PM
Post by: Bigdave_185 on January 17, 2021, 07:16:29 PM
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Post by: stlaser on January 18, 2021, 03:06:26 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210118/28c38e1a7b281e64e2bc1764cc2cda4c.jpg)
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Post by: TexasRedNeck on January 18, 2021, 06:24:38 PM
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Post by: KensAuto on January 18, 2021, 07:54:13 PM
Sweet. Need to find a place like that near meYou have a compressor. :Wink
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Post by: Flyin6 on January 18, 2021, 08:59:20 PM
Post by: JR on January 18, 2021, 11:12:37 PM
Sweet. Need to find a place like that near meYou have a compressor. :Wink
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You beat me to it Ken, he has everything else!!
Post by: stlaser on January 18, 2021, 11:14:40 PM
Sweet. Need to find a place like that near meYou have a compressor. :Wink
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You beat me to it Ken, he has everything else!!
:popcorn:
Post by: stlaser on January 19, 2021, 04:21:57 PM
Yuck, time for tear down and clean
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Pretty sure that code says Ken loves H ^^^^^^^ or did Ken trade H in for a K this go around?
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Pulling shafts and let wheel bearings drain
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Tad cleaner
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Post by: TexasRedNeck on January 19, 2021, 04:33:07 PM
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Post by: JR on January 19, 2021, 05:40:45 PM
Post by: stlaser on January 19, 2021, 06:40:47 PM
Better get all thAt grizzly grease out
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:knucklehead:
Post by: stlaser on January 19, 2021, 06:42:17 PM
I like the stand. I just a have a wooden stand now and a nice one I can put on my engine stand, but it has a LS hanging on it now.
It’s ok, great for cleaning housings. I personally like the pipe stands for building them but normally too lazy to move them off the cart to use the stands. My engine stand still has a Cummins attached
Post by: JR on January 19, 2021, 06:53:13 PM
Post by: stlaser on January 20, 2021, 10:23:55 AM
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Prepping the new components with Timken bearings and tear down of the drop out pinion support. Easiest way to remove that yoke is in the press. I’ve broke 2 jaw pullers in the past trying to get a seized up yoke off of these.
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Post by: dave945 on January 20, 2021, 10:54:06 AM
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Post by: stlaser on January 21, 2021, 08:44:40 PM
After some reading and trying to find correct seal i learnt what I was missing. Sent an email off to Tate and he provided the parts overnight to get me squared away.
Pinion seal on top and wear seal on the bottom. Wear seal is similar to a Speedi sleeve or seal extension if you’re familiar. Older axles do not use these. Engineers are smarter today and decided we need an extra $25 part in each axle because what they had for generations prior wasn’t good enough. Rant off.....
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Post by: JR on January 22, 2021, 12:02:08 AM
Post by: EL TATE on January 22, 2021, 11:34:30 AM
Post by: stlaser on January 22, 2021, 01:35:52 PM
best rule of thumb is 98+ GM will see these in most model applications, even 1/4 and 1/2 ton. they call it the triple lip seal.
Thanks for the info Tate
Post by: EL TATE on January 22, 2021, 01:52:16 PM
best rule of thumb is 98+ GM will see these in most model applications, even 1/4 and 1/2 ton. they call it the triple lip seal.
Thanks for the info Tate
sorry it's a little late
Post by: stlaser on January 22, 2021, 02:11:49 PM
best rule of thumb is 98+ GM will see these in most model applications, even 1/4 and 1/2 ton. they call it the triple lip seal.
Thanks for the info Tate
sorry it's a little late
So basically it’s an AAM idea?
Post by: EL TATE on January 22, 2021, 02:27:55 PM
Post by: stlaser on January 23, 2021, 01:09:15 PM
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Buttoning up Dons axle, crate building time
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Post by: JR on January 23, 2021, 01:21:56 PM
Post by: Bigdave_185 on January 23, 2021, 03:27:43 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on January 24, 2021, 11:04:58 AM
Post by: stlaser on January 24, 2021, 11:49:59 AM
Post by: America.Mike on January 25, 2021, 01:11:40 AM
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Post by: EL TATE on January 25, 2021, 07:14:36 PM
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Buttoning up Dons axle, crate building time
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This is what you're looking for folks. 50 yard line, center field, football shaped pattern. Nice work Sean. Try not to mess it up Don.
Post by: KensAuto on January 25, 2021, 09:03:54 PM
I think he just stuck his thumb in the wet paint to get that pattern. There's no way a hippie is that talented.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210123/7fbfc7099234555e5e36da108f0a008b.jpg)
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Buttoning up Dons axle, crate building time
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This is what you're looking for folks. 50 yard line, center field, football shaped pattern. Nice work Sean. Try not to mess it up Don.
Post by: JR on January 25, 2021, 09:11:50 PM
Post by: stlaser on January 25, 2021, 09:27:23 PM
Pinion was a tad shallow, swapped in a .010 pinion shim. Backlash then tightened up to .007 because of thinner pinion shim and I ran the pattern you see.
Quality parts make a world of difference, I only use Randy’s Ring and Pinion for my parts :beercheers:
Post by: JR on January 25, 2021, 09:29:49 PM
Post by: stlaser on January 25, 2021, 09:34:50 PM
They are about the easiest to work on for any rear.
True
Post by: Flyin6 on February 27, 2021, 11:41:31 PM
I have vacillated back and forth forever about whether to pull the motor and install a duramax, or build a big inch LS motor and stuff more boost into it.
Just like that, a 2002 Silverado 2500 with a duramax showed up for sale. It has a built transmission, 50 over injectors in the LB7, but one is sticking. It has head studs, a new factory turbo, and a slew of other hi-po parts. This is a beat up, but driving truck. I spoke with the owner and he would sell it to me for $4500 with a title.
Would be the perfect swap donor
What do you boneheads think?
Post by: Mrwoody on February 28, 2021, 12:21:29 AM
Post by: cudakidd53 on February 28, 2021, 08:37:10 AM
- Is everything you’ve done to date, compatible with the intended change in course?
- How far back will it push your timeline for heading to WY and adventure with your family and RMTWS knuckleheads?
- In the mantra of work, begets more work, is it REALLY just a stuck/bad injector or is it more of a Democratic Stimulus bill version of “just”?
Does it make sense and fit into your intent and desires for this vehicle? I think we all know that answer is a “yes”! Is it within your abilities - obviously - it is, but is it doable within the timeframe, your intended budget, availability of parts AND the timeframe for farming out issues to a necessary expert should the need arise?
You know you have an eager crowd of mechanical voyeurs screaming “do it, do it!” - in the voices of Beavis & Butthead!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on February 28, 2021, 08:56:58 AM
Don’t take anyone’s word for what’s on the inside of a duramax. Open it up and check it over.
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Post by: Sammconn on February 28, 2021, 09:16:08 AM
Now Charles hit the nail on the head, open it up and see for yourself.
And it could wait till after the ‘Ride’ to get swapped over.
And who knows, maybe with the new gears it won’t be so bad...
Yeah who am I kidding.
Post by: Bigdave_185 on February 28, 2021, 10:03:04 AM
If 30% of the story is true and it has one of a new turbo or a decent built trans then it’s worth the $$.I think this ^^^ is the correct option. It runs good as is, it would do great on the trip if the time line isn’t correct
Now Charles hit the nail on the head, open it up and see for yourself.
And it could wait till after the ‘Ride’ to get swapped over.
And who knows, maybe with the new gears it won’t be so bad...
Yeah who am I kidding.
But ..... that’s pretty good price if it starts at least?
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Post by: KensAuto on February 28, 2021, 10:34:35 AM
Post by: Flyin6 on February 28, 2021, 10:57:53 AM
Like always I'll disregard all of them, but it was good hearing from you all
;-))
Kiddin'
So first of all This year's Real man meet up that is currently scheduled for 29 June at Shawn's shop is on and the burb will be making the trip with a gas engine, although with the new 4.56 gears that Shawn and Tate provided.
Any drivetrain update would come after all that
And for Ken, the farm pics will be forthcoming with hopefully a barn thing and a pond V 2.0 as well.
I really see that Suburban with a factory looking Duramax sitting under the hood. I said factory looking, not factory performing. Now on one hand I didn't really want another project of this size, but the payoff with a much more powerful and useable Suburban is just so tempting. A duramax engine makes that truck a lifetime keeper that would go forever and anywhere pulling anything by nearly anybody, for any reason in any season and that's pretty a pretty good reason to do it
On the flip side the supercharged gasser is pretty well sorted, sort of
But
The gasser engine with stock internals is currently pushed t near its limits at 600-700 hp
It gets poor to poorer mileage
I DO NOT like the 4L80E with its one or two gears
On the financial side of things. I am shellin' out a bunch of coin on the new tractor, the new barn and valentines day. (The latter is an ongoing holiday process in my home which lasts approximately thirteen months each year.
If I committed to the swap I would of course, go through everything. Figure a rebuilt/updated engine/trans/transfer/torque converter, and of course the engine and transmission too. Maybe the transfer case and torque converter as well, but definitely the engine and transmission...If any of that makes any sense!
I could turn around and flip the 6.0 and supercharger, sell that 4L80E, and my new transfer case. I would have a rolling chassis of a truck to part out, and it has a set of through the bed stacks! (That is so stupid that the hillbillies really go for it.
Post by: Bigdave_185 on February 28, 2021, 11:05:52 AM
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Post by: dave945 on February 28, 2021, 11:07:05 AM
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Post by: dave945 on February 28, 2021, 11:09:17 AM
The boys truck would be a treat with the gas motor out of the burbThen I could buy the boys 6.0 from his truck and stick it in the blazer. OR, we could make this a lot easier, you could buy the duramax truck, I could pay you what the boys gas engine is worth, and we just stick the duramax in the blazer. I know, I know, you’re saying the math doesn’t add up. BUT when you think about how much labor and trouble I’m saving you, you should be paying me. ;)
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Post by: Flyin6 on February 28, 2021, 11:18:00 AM
Are you going to run the stacks through the cab of the suburban? I’m tuned in a be ready to watch. You wouldn’t have to worry about heat in the winter months, but you may need to add some extra AC.It's not a bad idea ya know
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Imagine a cold winter's night
With the chill ah-crawlin' up yer back
and then you crawl in the back and snuggle up to a good night's sleep next to those hot pipes!
Paintin' a pic for ya, am I?
Ever spent the night in a tent with a Yukon heater glowin' away??
Ah, wait, you're AirForce
You've never seen a tent
Sorry, but you get the picture
Stacks, ya, I can see that...
:-))
Post by: Flyin6 on February 28, 2021, 11:19:53 AM
You from the IRS??The boys truck would be a treat with the gas motor out of the burbThen I could buy the boys 6.0 from his truck and stick it in the blazer. OR, we could make this a lot easier, you could buy the duramax truck, I could pay you what the boys gas engine is worth, and we just stick the duramax in the blazer. I know, I know, you’re saying the math doesn’t add up. BUT when you think about how much labor and trouble I’m saving you, you should be paying me. ;)
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Post by: JR on February 28, 2021, 02:47:10 PM
From my understanding the LB7 injectors are not that hard to do. Specially if the motors out and all. Heck that price is less than the motor would be along.
Now, whats this about a June realman meet?? That is not that far and plenty of time to plan. Is this more than just you and Shawn or more RM?
Post by: BobbyB on March 01, 2021, 08:37:24 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on March 01, 2021, 10:19:43 PM
I decided that I can't make a decision about this burb.
So that's it, no more changes
This thing stays undecided, and that's the end of it!
Man, I wish I could remember everything I forgot I was going to do to the truck!
Post by: dave945 on March 01, 2021, 10:22:34 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on March 01, 2021, 10:24:35 PM
Hmmmm...so if you’re not going to use the duramax truck......maybe a durablazer, or a K5 max? Don’t think I would get fit going in time though. Unless they hurry up with that stimulus deal And I add a couple more kids. ;)Dave,
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It probably only has the one bad injector. You want to jump on it?
Post by: stlaser on March 02, 2021, 09:16:03 AM
Sounds like a great idea, but do the new drivetrain before you go. Will make the trip so much better! Plus I bet Shawn could setup a frontend for you and ship both, saving you time at a fair cost.
From my understanding the LB7 injectors are not that hard to do. Specially if the motors out and all. Heck that price is less than the motor would be along.
Now, whats this about a June realman meet?? That is not that far and plenty of time to plan. Is this more than just you and Shawn or more RM?
JR, it’s the WY Trans America Trail. Anyone is welcome, week of 2 track trail riding and camping and playing with antique hammers......
Post by: TexasRedNeck on March 03, 2021, 07:03:04 AM
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Post by: Flyin6 on March 04, 2021, 12:03:35 AM
Don will be wagon training with this to get to COThat actually looks like the amount of fuel I will be needing!
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Post by: Flyin6 on March 25, 2021, 10:01:52 PM
This time I sourced a core locally out of a 2000 Silverado 2500 for $50.
Post by: Flyin6 on March 25, 2021, 10:03:39 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on March 25, 2021, 10:05:16 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on March 25, 2021, 10:06:58 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on March 25, 2021, 10:09:23 PM
So the plan is to pull the races and seals and everything out of the case halves, then press in the new stuff. At that point I'll do a wire wheel polish of the case, then apply epoxy, allow that to set, then start reassembly of the rest of the parts.
Post by: KensAuto on March 26, 2021, 11:12:44 PM
Was just looking at one of those the other day. Ended up getting a chainsaw instead.
Post by: TexasRedNeck on March 27, 2021, 07:12:11 AM
Don, did they use a Honda engine on that?
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Post by: Flyin6 on March 27, 2021, 09:44:44 AM
It is Ken and a 14hp engine. Pressure washers are like RVs. Bolted together pieces that the mfgs don’t make except for the frame of the cart.It's a Kohler. Looks to be the same one as is bolted to my chainsaw. I think you are correct gentlemen, 14 HP, and over 4,000 psi at 4.5 gallons per min. Has a larger 3/8" pressure hose. I just run it at idle to mid throttle most of the time. Seems like twice the machine as the older 3200 psi Honda powered machine.
Don, did they use a Honda engine on that?
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I stepped all the way up to this machine because of the large heavy equipment I seem to have been accumulating down farm-side
Post by: JR on March 27, 2021, 02:42:22 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on March 27, 2021, 09:44:19 PM
I'm still into the frond axle gear change. Started the day with pulling the roller bearing assembly out of the right axle tube extension.
Post by: Flyin6 on March 27, 2021, 09:48:52 PM
Whatever
I spent at least an hour with the wire wheel getting scale rust and corrosion off of iron and aluminum parts. THen I cleaned them again with degreaser and a brush, then followed with brake cleaner and a good wipe down.
Everything will be coated with the KBS epoxies to keep away future corrosion
Post by: Flyin6 on March 27, 2021, 09:50:35 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on March 27, 2021, 09:54:05 PM
I had stopped by Harbor Freight earlier and topped up my gear puller selection. I first tried to pull the carrier bearings off with a 3-jaw, but it failed the very first time I used it. Chinese junk! I can only hope their weapons are built in a similar manner when we go to war against them after Biden tries to hand our nation to them on the sly.
Post by: Flyin6 on March 27, 2021, 09:55:43 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on March 27, 2021, 09:58:58 PM
I think I may have some hybrid kit or something as everything seemed to fit except for the front pinion bearing. It was much smaller than what was needed, perhaps it was for the 8.25" axle and mistakenly added to my kit. The factory bearing and race was perfect so I just cleaned it up to reuse
Post by: Flyin6 on March 27, 2021, 10:00:01 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on March 27, 2021, 10:03:12 PM
I pressed all that back together and set it aside for now
Post by: Flyin6 on March 27, 2021, 10:07:46 PM
The old seal was removed and the case cleaned once again with brake cleaner. Before starting reassembly, I cleaned the table, trays, floor, vise and tools. Makes for a better assembly process
Installing the races in that case is easily done by using two bearing race installers and a long 1/2" bolt. Just shim the bolt to get the thickness where you want it, then tighten until everything bottoms out
Post by: Flyin6 on March 27, 2021, 10:10:01 PM
When I run into things like this, and I didn't end up blowing it up, or shooting holes in it. I just set it aside and walk away. Better to come at it fresh on another day, than to work through your frustration and possibly do something you will later regret.
Post by: KensAuto on March 27, 2021, 10:38:01 PM
Also moved the others, so to anyone reading some of Don's previous posts, don't think he's crazy.
Post by: Flyin6 on March 27, 2021, 10:43:10 PM
Oops I posted pics in the wrong thread. Sorry Boss moving now.Thanks Ken
I was wondering what all that was about
Then someone started a "show your garage" thread inside my build thread too
Was getting a bit frustrated with trying to keep the real subject alive. Kind of like flying a straight heading while the enemy is shooting flak at you. Although it is bursting all around and doing some damage, you, the pilot try to keep it steady right up to the point of bomb release.
Post by: JR on March 28, 2021, 12:53:27 AM
You would think with the thousands if millions of these we would have a few options for a traction device besides just the $$$ air locker.
Great work, nice to just swap vs pull down with the truck down.
Post by: Flyin6 on March 28, 2021, 03:20:34 PM
Don, don't you have a blasting cabinet? Might have saved some time.My blast cabinet is junk...HF unit that never worked well. I did use it for a home for one of the kid's kats. It had a litter in there. It now holds down part of my workbench top. I was thinking of cankin' the thing and create a metal fab work area out of that corner. The plywood table top would make a nice welding table!
You would think with the thousands if millions of these we would have a few options for a traction device besides just the $$$ air locker.
Great work, nice to just swap vs pull down with the truck down.
Post by: TexasRedNeck on March 28, 2021, 05:29:39 PM
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Post by: JR on March 28, 2021, 08:06:21 PM
I now have a diff pickup and gun system, doing lights next.
Post by: Flyin6 on March 30, 2021, 06:44:03 PM
New bearing in one of the side adjusters
Post by: Flyin6 on March 30, 2021, 08:56:30 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on March 30, 2021, 08:57:43 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on March 30, 2021, 08:59:31 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on March 30, 2021, 09:02:11 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on March 30, 2021, 09:05:52 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on March 30, 2021, 09:12:32 PM
It takes like a million little adjustments to get the proper backlash on the gear. But here's one of the issues. Normally you measure bacllash against one of the ring gear teeth, but with a split case, I cannot see a way to do that, you can't get to any gear teeth, So I ended up taking my measurement on the side of the driveshaft yoke. Using .007" there just did not feel right. And with the preload already working against freedom of movement, some of the percision is lost since things are not moving very easily. So I can't be sure I had the right clearance. I can say that .005-.007 felt really tight, but .015 to .025 felt about right.
I decided to take a gear pattern check and what I got, I don't even know how to explain. First couple of revolutions I got this:
Post by: Flyin6 on March 30, 2021, 09:16:14 PM
So I decided to run it backwards with the impact, then forward with the impact. I must have moved the pinion nut because the darned thing nearly locked up.
And the pattern turned into this:
I don't even know what that is except a pending disaster...
Post by: JR on March 30, 2021, 09:18:23 PM
Whats the drive side look like?
Post by: Flyin6 on March 30, 2021, 09:46:14 PM
Well, don't use an impact!I had some pics but they didn't turn out. You can barely see to make it out. I am wondering how I did it the last time.
Whats the drive side look like?
Post by: stlaser on March 30, 2021, 09:52:10 PM
Post by: Bigdave_185 on March 30, 2021, 09:56:20 PM
1. What do you mean “ removed using the hydraulic grease method” ? I am not sure what that is or how to use it.
2. Side adjusters? I have never seen a front differential on one of these open nor do I plan on doing it, I’ll just stay in my lane for that kind of thing and let someone who knows handle it. But. What is a side adjuster?
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Post by: JR on March 30, 2021, 10:02:26 PM
Post by: stlaser on March 30, 2021, 10:07:23 PM
Side adjusters are used to move ring gear towards or away from pinion gear. You screw then in or out and both sides need to be moved same amount after bearing preload has been set in order to maintain that preload
Post by: JR on March 30, 2021, 10:09:26 PM
Post by: Bigdave_185 on March 31, 2021, 12:00:33 AM
Dave, in places you can’t get a blind hole puller into you can pack the area behind the bearing with grease then drive a pin the size of the hole in center of bearing thru it. The grease is pushed by pin and drives bearing out towards youSo when tightening or loosening you are pushing against what? Bearings or the actual differential gear set? I have read about you guys setting back lash I understand that portion but what are you using to adjust it?
Side adjusters are used to move ring gear towards or away from pinion gear. You screw then in or out and both sides need to be moved same amount after bearing preload has been set in order to maintain that preload
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Post by: JR on March 31, 2021, 12:28:40 AM
Post by: Flyin6 on March 31, 2021, 11:37:40 AM
I have two questionsAnswers in red above
1. What do you mean “ removed using the hydraulic grease method” ? I am not sure what that is or how to use it.
You pump the cavity full of grease, then find a suitable bolt, and tape it up until if fits the bore snuggly. Align it over the opening and smash it with a hammer. The pressurized grease will shove the pressed in bearing right out...easy-peasy
2. Side adjusters? I have never seen a front differential on one of these open nor do I plan on doing it, I’ll just stay in my lane for that kind of thing and let someone who knows handle it. But. What is a side adjuster?
Just like a 14 bolt FF axle has the screw type adjusters on the side to move the pinion in/out, this 9.25 AAM axle does as well. You can see me holding them in my hand as I removed them to rebuild with new bearings/race/seals as necessary. They take a strange tool to move, and that is why I just built my own.
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Post by: Flyin6 on March 31, 2021, 11:42:36 AM
Dave, in places you can’t get a blind hole puller into you can pack the area behind the bearing with grease then drive a pin the size of the hole in center of bearing thru it. The grease is pushed by pin and drives bearing out towards youAnd just because this all sounds easy it is anything but.
Side adjusters are used to move ring gear towards or away from pinion gear. You screw then in or out and both sides need to be moved same amount after bearing preload has been set in order to maintain that preload
Much closer to a major PITB you will spend a lot of time doing this and me. at least, departing the procedure wondering if you got it right or junked it all up. Me/this one...At this point I am very uncertain I have anything right just yet, and now that I accidentally tightened, then loosened the pinion yoke not, I lost the crush washer preload, so at a minimum I will need to disassemble back to that point and start again with another nut/crush sleeve, which I believe Tate is already shipping to me.
Did I mention how nice it is to be supported by Tate with us doing all these gear swaps all the time??? Well, it is really nice!
Post by: EL TATE on March 31, 2021, 01:33:53 PM
Preload 15-22 lb/in of rotating drag w/o carrier installed
backlash .005-.007, yes really that tight
recommended pinion depth starting point .032 which you're under, but factory is not the same ratio, so it's normal to have to adjust. you're on the right path, just get some more shim in there, and use an electric drill to spin the gear, no impact when checking pattern!
backlash measured at the yoke should be devided by 2, so you're shooting for 0.010-.014, you weren't far off the 1st try sir.
go get after it now, i'll wait. :-)
Post by: JR on March 31, 2021, 02:17:35 PM
Tate, on preload for the carrier bearings, I don't see that. So after you have your good pattern and backlash, how much do you tighten the side adjuster?
Post by: EL TATE on March 31, 2021, 04:32:42 PM
Pinion preload is without seal also.
Tate, on preload for the carrier bearings, I don't see that. So after you have your good pattern and backlash, how much do you tighten the side adjuster?
good catch. backlash gets set, then tighten the ever lovin' piss out of one of the side adjusters. you CANNOT over preload a carrier bearing, but you definitely can under do it.
Post by: JR on March 31, 2021, 04:37:36 PM
Post by: EL TATE on March 31, 2021, 05:51:20 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on March 31, 2021, 06:44:44 PM
this is a 2 step gear and needs to be a tighter backlash, .005-.007 is what it actually calls for. I didn't have my spec sheet last night, sorry Don. you need to add .007-.010 pin depth shim thickness; you're way shallow on this pattern. speaking of pattern, a 2 step gear just needs to be in the middle of the tooth, top to bottom of the lands/grooves. heel to toe doesn't matter so much, and your classic football pattern won't show up here; you might get a "pink eraser" trapezoid kinda looking deal, sometimes at a 45* from heel to toe, but as long as it's centered height wise, your fine. here are the specsDang, I was close
Preload 15-22 lb/in of rotating drag w/o carrier installed
backlash .005-.007, yes really that tight
recommended pinion depth starting point .032 which you're under, but factory is not the same ratio, so it's normal to have to adjust. you're on the right path, just get some more shim in there, and use an electric drill to spin the gear, no impact when checking pattern!
backlash measured at the yoke should be devided by 2, so you're shooting for 0.010-.014, you weren't far off the 1st try sir.
go get after it now, i'll wait. :-)
Getting back at it...
Post by: Flyin6 on March 31, 2021, 06:50:05 PM
First thing I did was to split the case and take a good look at everything inside. The pinion was running at the top of the ring gear face sure enough. I cleaned it all up, then reassembled after applying a fresh coat of gear marking paint. I did this to confirm so I would be sure I had a better start point. Extra work? Yea, probably, but I was either going to get this in there today or haul it off to Cincinnati driveline and drop a few hundred dollars figuring everything out.
Here is what I finally noted. I had to take the case apart just to get a good look at the pattern, And that is exactly what I saw, suspicions confirmed
Post by: Flyin6 on March 31, 2021, 06:50:48 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on March 31, 2021, 07:00:19 PM
The factory shim was actually just a hair under .0030". I tossed it and placed a fresh Randy's .0030 plus a .0010 so I was now about .0011 deeper into the ring gear tooth than when I started.
First thing I noticed is it all came up to spec much smoother. I was able to come up onto the crush sleeve, then tighten with the electric impact until I got the preload.
Last time it was all notchy and had a "breaking torque" to get spinning that was much higher than the free spinning torque, but not this time. It now breaks crisply at 20 in lbs.
Setting backlash was much simpler too. I fell right into that .014" Tate suggested after just a few tries, and this time the differential actually felt like a well put together unit.
I am getting a coast pattern just a bit north of centering on the gear and a drive pattern roughly the same. Just like Tater explained, I may end up with a strange trapezoidal pattern and I think that is what I have.
Post by: Flyin6 on March 31, 2021, 07:03:07 PM
It's a front diff for crap's sake. I will only have to use it a few times to pull Shawn's Jeep off a termite mound, so, ya, I'm going to button the sucker up and slap it in!
Post by: JR on March 31, 2021, 07:32:52 PM
If you get the drive side solid, the coast can be off a little long as both are centered. Pattern will travel out under load either way.
Post by: EL TATE on April 01, 2021, 10:58:06 AM
Post by: Flyin6 on April 01, 2021, 04:50:56 PM
from what I can see, you're good to run Don. Ship it!Rog!
Post by: Flyin6 on April 03, 2021, 11:12:29 AM
Shawn's diff cover and the brake dust shields are first up
Post by: Flyin6 on April 05, 2021, 07:55:04 PM
I picked a nice hammered silver/black pigment for all the underside parts. For the wheels I am going with a flat bronze color that looks a lot like these:
Post by: Flyin6 on April 05, 2021, 08:00:50 PM
So I have a bunch of time to work on this.
I'll install the front diff, then install the rear axle, but obviously not all the way to done
Reprogram the computer
And just maybe tuck in a 40 gal aux tank in place of that 9 gal tank that the factory tucked up in there. I was looking at that. My concept would be to mount the new much larger tank but using all the factory transfer lines/pump/sending units/ magic stuff, just have a larger tank.
Concept of the operation: For highway cruising a 40-50 gal tank would be adequate unless I found a place where fuel is free. But when we bust the trail. I could top up to nearly 80 gallons if needed. I could actually have a long range and even refuel others with say, 5 gal of emer fuel if they ran short, thus extending the range and flexibility of everyone involved.
Post by: Flyin6 on April 17, 2021, 11:05:25 PM
First I tore it all down and hauled the wheels and tires away along with a ton of small parts to get coated
Post by: Flyin6 on April 17, 2021, 11:08:34 PM
So starting with the supplied axle. I cut the factory shock mounts and rotated them about 90 degrees to keep the shock bottoms from hanging down to snag rocks on trails.
Post by: Flyin6 on April 17, 2021, 11:11:36 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on April 17, 2021, 11:13:12 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on April 17, 2021, 11:16:17 PM
The front diff is patiently waiting...
Post by: JR on April 18, 2021, 04:12:55 AM
Post by: Flyin6 on April 18, 2021, 09:44:42 PM
The rest of the parts should be out of the coater shop this week
Will likely pull old axle and get the new one at least strapped to the springs while I wait
But then again, we start building a barn tomorrow...
Post by: Flyin6 on April 18, 2021, 10:25:09 PM
First of all, when I pulled it apart to send to powder-coat, I noticed the inside of the left tire had a scuff mark where it had contacted the air bag enough to wipe off the dust. I am theorizing that the truck suspension was flexing causing the air bladder to expand enough to just touch the sidewall of those 37's
I ordered a couple 1/2" spacers to alleviate that little issue
The second thing is something I have been wanting to do forever, and that is get rid of that rear fuel tank
As you may or may not know some Suburban's have dual tanks, a 26 gallon main tank and an eleven gallon aux tank sitting above the spare tire.
I just ordered a factory 1999 Suburban 2500, 42 gallon rear tank. The front factory tank is 26 gallons so that will increase total fuel capacity from 37 gallons all the way up to 68 gallons.
Thinking I can squeak 13 MPG out of it, I'd have a safe cruising range of 830 miles while retaining a 50 mile reserve.
I ordered a galvanized tank with straps and hardware
We will soon know the truth/if it will fit
Post by: JR on April 18, 2021, 10:53:19 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on April 19, 2021, 05:25:10 PM
You'll need a pump to, doubt you can switch them unless its a deep aux tank. Did you look at skid plates?Right now, JR, I don't have a clue what will fit and what won't
I hope to reuse as much stock stuff as is possible and just "Make it all work."
I plan to find a sheet of Aluminum to use as a skid plate. I did buy the tank hangers, and this tank was engineered to fit in the 1999 which has very similar if not the same architecture as the GMT 800 Burb I own.
One was or another, we will soon know if it is possible.
Post by: JR on April 19, 2021, 05:55:49 PM
For the skidplate, why fab when a factory unit will bolt right in and probably cost less than just the alum sheet?
Back to the barn now!!
Post by: Flyin6 on April 19, 2021, 05:57:23 PM
Probably is, just get a pump for that vs the 20 year old pump in there. I was really happy in having a access hole for mine in the floor, maybe just "mark" the floor where it is, just in case?I didn't see a factory skid plate anywhere. Have to look harder
For the skidplate, why fab when a factory unit will bolt right in and probably cost less than just the alum sheet?
Back to the barn now!!
Post by: JR on April 19, 2021, 06:37:16 PM
https://www.justparts.com/Auto_Parts/GM-1996-99-CHEVY-GMC-SUBURBAN-GAS-TANK-SKID-PLATE-SHIELD/30901279
Post by: Flyin6 on April 20, 2021, 10:15:59 PM
I got the huge and super heavy Dana80 out of the truck to make way for the lighter 14 bolt. Looking at them on the floor, I can see 100 or more pounds of hog that my truck will be losing with this swap.
I cleaned everything up including the muddy burb undercarriage prior to wrenching
Post by: Flyin6 on April 20, 2021, 10:16:51 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on April 20, 2021, 10:18:28 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on April 21, 2021, 07:33:01 PM
The old D80 is one massive axle. Looking at it beside the 14 bolt FF axle, I can see that single piece was in part responsible for lackluster acceleration. It must weigh 100-150 lbs more than the 14 bolt. Such beef!
Post by: Flyin6 on April 21, 2021, 07:34:41 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on April 21, 2021, 07:36:39 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on April 21, 2021, 07:37:45 PM
Shucks!
Post by: JR on April 21, 2021, 08:06:40 PM
Just like I think the 14bt semi is underated some. For now that will sit under the sub with a corp 10 in front.
Post by: TexasRedNeck on April 22, 2021, 11:40:59 AM
https://www.rezvanimotors.com/rezvani-hercules-6x6-military-edition#hercules-6x6-military-edition-features
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Post by: Flyin6 on April 22, 2021, 01:13:50 PM
Bad man!
I have mused over the idea of building a high speed tracked vehicle for years now. Played around with the concept in my mind over and over. Would be cool to start putting it together
Some things I have not been able to solve is the final differentiating transmission to use for steering. That's a different animal. Or use hydraulic wheel motors...
Then there's the track. Who makes one big enough to support a 10,000 lb vehicle
Power: Easy, I think. Built Duramax with a five speed or some sort of transmission to give you variable speeds to the final drives if you didn't just opt for a wheel motor setup.
Dunno, would be fun...
Post by: cj7ox on April 22, 2021, 01:19:14 PM
https://newatlas.com/howe-and-howe-unveils-ripsaw-ev-2-tracked-off-road-vehicle/37706/ (https://newatlas.com/howe-and-howe-unveils-ripsaw-ev-2-tracked-off-road-vehicle/37706/)
This is the basis for the new robotic combat vehicle-medium (RCV-M) the army is looking at.
Post by: JR on April 22, 2021, 02:04:08 PM
Post by: Sammconn on April 22, 2021, 03:54:56 PM
I’ll just leave this here
https://www.rezvanimotors.com/rezvani-hercules-6x6-military-edition#hercules-6x6-military-edition-features
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Charles strikes again!
This will be Burb 3.0 as Burb 2.6 is needed for the summer...
Post by: Flyin6 on April 22, 2021, 08:34:40 PM
Bad news is that he charged me $216 for the tank and only refunded $167
Biden math???
I'll take this as a warning of sorts. Maybe trying to fit the gas tank before the trip to WY is a mistake, so I'll just skip this for now and reboot after the travelling is all done.
It is getting to be a time crunch again, just getting all the parts in to finish the 4.56 swap is challenging. Now I have a wait for the driveshaft to be stretched.
With the camper still needing a few things and the barn going up, my son going off to join the Armee, a week long trip to FL and who knows who's birthday party in this ever increasing family of mine, I may well already be out of time.
So I'll just double down on the things I have to get done.
Did I mentioned the turbo and supercharged LS stroker engine installation that is upcoming???
Post by: JR on April 22, 2021, 09:27:29 PM
Dmax it for gosh sakes!
Post by: Flyin6 on April 23, 2021, 09:43:58 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on April 23, 2021, 09:45:05 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on April 23, 2021, 09:46:22 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on April 23, 2021, 09:47:55 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on April 23, 2021, 09:49:19 PM
Post by: Bigdave_185 on April 23, 2021, 10:13:17 PM
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Post by: JR on April 23, 2021, 11:58:49 PM
Post by: stlaser on April 24, 2021, 11:32:28 AM
Post by: Flyin6 on April 24, 2021, 11:51:03 AM
That the baby tank above the old spare spot?yessir, all 11 gallons of it
Post by: Sammconn on April 24, 2021, 11:58:53 AM
And now the diff cover is the best “painted” part. Lol.
Looks real good.
Post by: Flyin6 on April 26, 2021, 08:51:46 PM
But, having to quit around 1730 because of a fire dept. board meeting, it looks like this at the moment
Post by: Flyin6 on April 26, 2021, 08:55:27 PM
I did that so that I would have room to add in that 42 gal aux tank. But it did cause me to have to tilt the links from the verticle, which should not hurt, but not as ideal as straight up/down.
I plan to bend all four ears inboard to help with alignment
Post by: Flyin6 on April 26, 2021, 08:56:33 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on April 26, 2021, 08:58:35 PM
And brake lines all secured and clearanced
Post by: Bigdave_185 on April 26, 2021, 09:21:18 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on April 26, 2021, 09:35:28 PM
Why are the vertical links on that sway bar so much wider then the sway bar? I know you didn’t build the sway bar,Ford F350 rear sway bar, links from some other project. Pretty much unbreakable.
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Post by: TexasRedNeck on April 26, 2021, 11:07:52 PM
. Pretty much unbreakable.Said no pilot ever. Especially Don
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Post by: JR on April 26, 2021, 11:46:37 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on April 27, 2021, 10:52:13 AM
Didn't remember the panhard bar so long ago. Doesn't it just push the springs side to side?If it's level there is not enough suspension travel to cause it to do much side to side at all. I recall watching old 60's "G" bodies with jacked up air shocks hitting a bump and waddling side to side. This is nothing like that, and a great counter to a roof mounted tent.
Post by: JR on April 27, 2021, 11:04:01 AM
Post by: Flyin6 on April 27, 2021, 11:50:46 AM
Hey, don't pick on my el camino!Yea, that's one!
Post by: stlaser on April 27, 2021, 01:38:05 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on April 30, 2021, 09:34:14 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on April 30, 2021, 09:35:31 PM
Post by: longball on May 02, 2021, 12:26:02 PM
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Post by: JR on May 02, 2021, 05:18:11 PM
I need new rears for the Max, trailer was bouncing all over, but the bilsteins have about 150K on em.
Post by: Flyin6 on May 02, 2021, 10:17:39 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on May 02, 2021, 10:20:58 PM
I started out bolting up the wheels with these 1/2" spacers, but after seeing just how little lug nut engagement I had afterward, I tossed them and bolted the wheels on straight up
Post by: Flyin6 on May 02, 2021, 10:21:57 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on May 02, 2021, 10:23:24 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on May 02, 2021, 10:24:06 PM
Post by: JR on May 03, 2021, 12:11:01 AM
Post by: Atkinsmatt on May 03, 2021, 08:36:40 AM
Post by: KensAuto on May 03, 2021, 11:26:24 AM
Post by: Flyin6 on May 03, 2021, 06:41:33 PM
I really like the color of the wheels.I think they look good by themselves, but against the gray color of the burb...I'm undecided.
Post by: Bigdave_185 on May 04, 2021, 06:34:33 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210504/83ba8ff512fefae73c29b89ec4c8301a.jpg)
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Post by: rpar86 on May 04, 2021, 06:37:29 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on May 04, 2021, 09:33:25 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on May 07, 2021, 09:27:47 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on May 07, 2021, 09:28:23 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on May 07, 2021, 09:29:41 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on May 07, 2021, 09:30:24 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on May 07, 2021, 09:32:28 PM
I held off reinstalling that heavy front axle guard. Plan to punch a bunch of lightening holes in it
Post by: Flyin6 on May 10, 2021, 09:55:28 PM
Prepping the skid/bash plates for PC'ing. I want to drill a bunch of holes into the surface to reduce weight and aid in airflow.
Once that's done, I'm off to Killer Coatings for more of their great work
Post by: oklawall on May 11, 2021, 07:13:03 AM
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Post by: Flyin6 on May 11, 2021, 12:11:39 PM
Boss, if you would take a suggestion from an old Air Force guy. I would mount the skid plate after you drill and take it for a test drive before you powder coat it. My luck would be that I will put a hole in a perfect place that it would whistle any time I drove it. Not sure if I could hear it after working around jet engines for so many years...Overkill!
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I can't hear either. Whistling sounds went away around 2005, female voices later, 2008 ish I'd say, and now wining dogs and babies!
Another note, was just over at the truck stop getting my Chevy washed. There was a strange looking semi in there with a long trailer. On the side: "US Air Force"
It had the standard double set of axles in the back, then another set in the middle, and the tractor had three sets of axles!!!
So right away I was thinking there was an old minuteman or maybe a MX on the inside. But then I thought, it was more likely carrying a wing for a tanker or bomber or something long like that.
I took a pic on my cell phone.
Post by: Flyin6 on May 13, 2021, 10:48:04 AM
And the vehicle tuning has begun
I will be:
Adjusting the speedo readout for the tire size and gear ratio changes
Adjusting torque management
Changing the percent throttle allowed to be in 4th, O.D.
I think I need to look at fuel enrichment
and
Timing
I will tune those off the wide band and actual conditions
I have a dedicated laptop that will have all the tunes I develop, including some modifications I am bound to make based on higher altitude operation that I can use out west, then switch back to the Kentuckee friendly tunes when I return
Post by: Flyin6 on May 13, 2021, 10:50:07 AM
I thought it was cool where he repaired the axle stripped splines with JB Weld. I mean, who would have thunk of that?
:-0
Post by: Sammconn on May 13, 2021, 07:33:03 PM
:popcorn:
Post by: Flyin6 on May 16, 2021, 11:38:27 PM
So it's got some new sounds from sitting idle for months, but it is running well.
The 4.56 gears seem about right. That and shedding all those extra pounds made a difference you can feel. It is noticeably quicker to get going from a stop.
The tuning can now start. I'll make small changes, then evaluate, whilst making new tune builds with each change.
Post by: JR on May 16, 2021, 11:40:51 PM
Any rubbing with the 37s?
Post by: Flyin6 on May 16, 2021, 11:47:26 PM
Looks good. Maybe the mileage will go up some to.Haven't found any yet
Any rubbing with the 37s?
Lots on my D-max though...Makes up for not having any yet on this burb
Post by: Flyin6 on May 18, 2021, 10:15:08 PM
With that in mind, where I was playing whack-a-mole for quite some time fixing a never ending list of things, I think with the gear swap, I turned a corner with this truck. The whole thing is at the point where I am tuning it bit by bit using HP-Tuners, and as I tip toe down that path, the truck is showing me some of its problems.
I have now made somewhere around ten changes to the tune file in the trucks ECM and TCM, and even its BCM. I started with just getting the gear change and tire size in there. Using 4.56 and 37" tire height, I was about 10 MPH off. Then I read where you need to take one inch off the actual tire size, so I did that...second change
Then while studying transmission tuning on line I ran into this brilliant tool called "Blue-Cat-Tuning" which some crafty fella put together a decade or more ago. That tunes the transmission all by itself. You enter some basic values into the thing which is a massive spread sheet, and it produces the modified tables for a bunch of things. You copy and paste those new files over the one in the tune in HP Tuners and load that into the vehicle.
I did that... third change
I noticed it held first gear way too long, so I dropped the shift points a little. I drove it and although it was better, still not right...change 5
I modified the 1-2 shift points and also reduced the shift pressures some to lighten up the extremely hard 1-2 shift I have because of the trans-go kit. That helped some, but still have a ridicously hard 1-2 shift...Change 6
That got me to the highway speed cruise test. It wouldn't shift into over drive until I was really going, and that's when I discovered one of more tires was way-way out of balance. So I lowered the 3-4 shift points and drove it over to the tire shop...change 7.
Those guys pulled all 4 tires and dismounted them. In two of the tires, there was probably well over 10 ounces of beads, and two bead bags, as in the actual bags. They corrected it by vacuuming the tires out and adding fresh 6 oz bags, sans the actual bags. I drove it home on the highway and wow, was I pleased. Set at 37 lbs of air it rode like it was on glass. No joke it was ultra smooth and nice. While at the shop, I discovered brake fluid all over the inside of the RR tire!
More importantly, it was now shifting into OD earlier and wasn't laboring as much. I lowered the 3-4 shift points and upped the 3-4 shift point pressure a small amount, and added in 25% torque reduction for all shifts except for very light throttle. When I got home, I replaced the copper washers, and bled the brakes and topped off. That fixed that issue. Change 8
I drove that over to the hardware store and back on the highway. The engine response is now pretty good, and the transmission is for sure in the ballpark. I was cruising with the semis effortlessly in OD, locked and around 2300 RPM. I was indicating 60 mph where as I believe they were doing 68-70 so I'll have to correct the speedo again.
On the way home I got an oil level low light! So I pulled over and discovered the oil was two quarts low, which I added. I had been smelling the scent of burning oil, so I went straight to the PCV line. It routes from the passenger valve cover to the intake shout of the blower. It was wet with oil on the inside! So I just happened to have an oil catch can, so I fabbed up a mount and bolted all that in.
So, as you can see, bringing this or any project home is simply a matter of solving all the problems that arise.
Left to do:
Wire a solenoid from the AC compressor to the electric fans to turn one on when the ac compressor starts up
Continue to fine tune the transmission
After transmission is sorted, do another dyno test pull to get the engine tune all dialed in
Fix an inop CB radio
Sort out a strange buzzing in the sub woofer/amp
Figure out why the overhead lights stopped working
Begin test pulling the camper to get some numbers and idea how that works
My feeling is that the truck feels plenty powerful enough to pull that camper. The burb is not fast, but it does roll right away from a traffic light and maintain highway speed effortlessly, so I think the combo is looking like it should pull the camper and do so on the upcoming long trip.
Post by: JR on May 18, 2021, 10:21:35 PM
I would think heavy or not it should do more than just away from a light.
Post by: Flyin6 on May 18, 2021, 10:36:05 PM
Interesting.It will disintegrate the rear tires if you give the blower some air, but I don't drive like that. And I like quieter on this one. Although I have the largest/quietest dyno-max made on there, it could use more muffler.
I would think heavy or not it should do more than just away from a light.
I'll ponder that one, as I do not need another project at the moment.
Post by: JR on May 19, 2021, 12:11:53 AM
Maybe a resonator would help vs another full muffler?
Post by: Flyin6 on May 19, 2021, 09:17:04 AM
So I went to him with a concept I had some time ago. It's about powering the suburban and juxtaposing a gasoline based powerplant against a half tilt Duramax alternative. Frankly, I think the duramax alternative would likely be ideal bring both good fuel economy and great torque to the equation. You see I want more adventure out of the burb. I always wanted it to tow a respectable sized camper down hundreds of miles of interstate to some remote location, then change personalities and jump into low range and climb up that hill over there to eventually land me near that mountain stream I spied while flyin' my heli-ca-peter through the hills.
I think diesel because of the low rpm grunt, the great fuel mileage which gets me a lot more time on the trail without limping off to get refueled, and I also want it to cruise effortlessly all day on a cool weekend venture with just me n' da frau. Those things point directly toward the diesel conversion, sure enough. But wait, there's more, and the more is not so good. First just to fit the Allison transmission I need to lift the body 2". Lift a body on a truck already at the upper end of the height spectrum. So the only way I could do that would be to lower the suspension and switch down to 35" tires, since the 37's will not tolerate any less clearance.
Now complicate that with the atmospheric cost of rebuilding anything diesel. Like everything on a diesel is expensive. the injection pump you ask, couple thou to get it right. Oh, the LB7 needs better rods...again a couple thou with the pistons, crank work and block machining. Injectors? Yep, couple thou and even though I'd choose to retain the LB7 inside-valve cover architecture, more monies. Oh the turbo and duct work??? Correct, couple thou. The Allison will set me back a stifling $6,000, then there's the lines, the intercooler, the larger radiator, the this's and that's. The couple thou easily settles in at a couple ten-thousand to get it done right. Oh, forgot to mention the couple thou for the donor truck, and yea the couple thou for a starter, alternator, powder-coating brackets, pulleys, belts, AC, fan and on and on...
Now that right there kicks the door wide open for a gasser. A spendy LS powerplant will easily come in under the cost of the oil burner and not require me to go at the body and wiring harness like a surgeon chasing cancer all over a patient. (Bad analogy, but you git da pic). I proposed to nick a big torque producing gasser as an alternative...One which is supercharged to get a good off throttle response, but also turbo charged to build some really big (+1000 torque) as that spooled up. We have been talking around this for a winter build as a possibility. He is all over the gasser over the diesel just cause he likes gassers. Me: I am on the fence, I want to hear more.
Keeping it all reasonable and not crazy, I am thinking of a boost specific block somewhere from 408"-427" in size. use studs everywhere, good gaskets and some thick deck head, maybe the trick-flow offering. Get someone to build a cam for it and actually spin the blower a bit slower. It is set for 12 psi on 364 cu in, so I am thinking something like 6-8 psi on the 410" motor. Less drag, less heat, mo better. But, have a turbocharger capable of providing a secondary hit finally arriving somewhere around 15-19 psi at the port. That would be achieved by electric waste gates and the whole thing overseen by a new Holley fuel injection which has additional capabilities over the stock system.
The bigger block engine would have a lot more torque just through the larger size, so there's that. Standing on the gas pedal, you'd have that always there and it would be supplemented by the always present-n-ready supercharger. Stay in the throttle a second or two and the not-so-sleepy turbo would start to show up. I think we could easily build 1500 HP/1000 torque and keep it all down in the driveable RPM range and topping around 5.000 to be more truck like.
That all just bolts in, forgoing the need to remove the body, and every single wire and bolt on the thing which adds complexity out the wazoo to the project. The upside is power: good, Cost: Acceptable, complexity: Acceptable, Amount of work: Better than the D-max swap.
So for all those reasons, we are exploring the possibility of a compound boosted gas engine for the suburban.
Post by: JR on May 19, 2021, 01:08:49 PM
Post by: Sammconn on May 19, 2021, 08:30:13 PM
When I’m done with my donor truck.
I’ll have an unmolested LBZ ally combo up for sale...sitting in a 2007 crew...
It is too new for this burb....easily. But hey. They made burbs of this era also.
:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
Post by: JR on May 19, 2021, 08:46:24 PM
Post by: rpar86 on May 19, 2021, 11:18:52 PM
Post by: JR on May 19, 2021, 11:48:35 PM
You can also put a 6L85 behind it like the vans have.
Then you get the double OD too.
Post by: Flyin6 on May 20, 2021, 08:58:54 AM
You can also put a 6L85 behind it like the vans have.I talked to the 6-speed guys. One of them told me to stay away from the 6-speed even for the built LS motor. The guy I spoke with who sells conversion kits told me to stay away from the 6L series transmissions. He said they are either hit or miss, and he does not know why. Naw, if I go oil burner, then only an ally pretty please
Post by: Flyin6 on May 20, 2021, 09:06:30 AM
That last tune update pulled me into the sweet spot zone. The truck is starting to do everything right. Speedo is now pretty close if not nutz on. It cruises like an absolute dream at 70-75. I can high cruise at 80, did that some yesterday. The gas mileage just got a bunch better, I mean a lot better. Staying in 3rd all the time was killing it. I think I am easily better than 10, maybe a bunch better, but too early to start mileage testing.
The biggest take away at this point is that this truck feels like it effortlessly drives now. I notice that even with light throttle, I am always accelerating ahead of normal traffic, and highway cruising is simply a non event. The cruise RPM is now much lower, and I'd say that 65-68 is a sweet spot where I am like 2200-2300 and making a ton (or two) of torque.
After driving it all over yesterday, I devoted hours to it fixing all sorts of things. For the first time I am approaching a point that I could call "Done," and good enough to take off across the country.
Things are looking bright!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 20, 2021, 09:22:07 AM
Well, I figured out where it all has been going!
Turns out the super charger has an appetite for a constant flow of the slippery stuff. It has been sucking oil right out of the valve cover, and pressurizing it and feeding it to the cylinders.
I mounted this breather catch can device and drove the truck on maybe a 50 mile loop. Just look how much oil it captured during that one little drive!!!!!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 20, 2021, 09:23:51 AM
I'll continue to test to see what happens is anything
Post by: Flyin6 on May 20, 2021, 09:24:53 AM
This is the level after things have cooled off
Post by: Flyin6 on May 20, 2021, 09:47:15 AM
Next I upped the fans-on switched temp to 195, up from a performance enhancing 185. I am after efficiency (mileage) over the last ounce of horsepower.
I found a disconnected wire from one of the door speakers, and repaired the overhead lights. I had disconnected one of the power wires for some reason...!
But then I found something I do not like
I was checking the underside after a run. The transfer case seemed really hot. Like, as in, hotter than the transmission!!! The paint was yellowed due to heat, and after cooling I drained and checked the fluid. The drain plug had a lot of fuzz and the fluid was dark brown to black and smelled burned!
So, that case has been apart several times, and I had replaced the pump with the pump rub kit. A transmission split the case some months later to correct a leak and told me it looked brand new inside. And now this...
So I flushed it, then poured in new fluid and closed it up. We'll see...
Post by: JR on May 20, 2021, 12:09:58 PM
I hear 5/30 syn is better for these trans.
Getting there :beercheers:
Post by: TexasRedNeck on May 20, 2021, 12:22:17 PM
It’s a vicious cycle. Less crankcase vacuum leads to poor ring seal, leading to blow by, leading to seals, and oil usage....
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Post by: Flyin6 on May 20, 2021, 09:22:11 PM
But
While driving down to pick up the newly coated camper wheels, something broke. After pulling off the expressway I was smoothly accelerating into traffic under maybe 15% throttle (Read: Light) and something broke in something moving. Either the front or rear axle, the transmission, or the transfer case. No clue although it was sudden then made a grinding sound as I drove 20mph another 200 meters to a parking lot.
It was moving under its own power
I doubt the rear axle would have broken, it's new and Shawn put it together. It was not in 4WD so I doubt the front axle, although as part of the testing earlier in the morning I was shifting into and out of 4WD while driving 10mph to 30mph. The transmission was fine, so I suspect the transfer case. I had it low-boyed over to S&S transmissions to have John look it over.
Not speculating any more until I get some hard information, but I have to say, this is a pretty serious letdown. I really want to be getting more and more confident in the trucks street worthiness, but I have to confess, that meter is pointing in the opposite direction.
Post by: JR on May 20, 2021, 09:27:25 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on May 20, 2021, 09:37:33 PM
I was thinking tcase to. You said it was really hot. Electric shift right?yes, electric
Post by: EL TATE on May 21, 2021, 11:29:11 AM
Post by: Flyin6 on May 21, 2021, 02:09:08 PM
They are in the same pump rub family, and output shaft bearings just let go. check your email.I did, thanks
So the plan is to get the transmission guy, John, to put the thing up on a lift and run it. If it proves to be a bad case, then I'll pick up the case from Tate, Randy's worldwide and install that.
We'll see what the T-case tells us...
Post by: Flyin6 on May 24, 2021, 11:28:43 AM
Ya, where did that come from?
John who owns SS Transmissions in Alexandria, KY put it on a lift and positively identified the transfer case as the source of the crunching sounds.
So a quick text to Tate Hudson, Randy's worldwide in Everett, WA, and a reman transfer case is headed my way. Probably the smartest way to handle it. Just R&R the old case and I'll be back up running in a jiffy. I only wish: 1. This sort of thing never happened, or, 2. I didn't have to fork out a couple thousand on something I thought was rock solid (A week before vacation!!!!!)
Post by: Flyin6 on May 26, 2021, 07:24:29 PM
The transfer case is indeed toast. When draining fluid, metal chunks were coming out! The case is out and sitting on the rack. The Tate supplied newer one should be here tomorrow
And yesterday, if you follow my hide site thread, you know my brand new cutter grenaded with less than two hours on it! That will be warranty, but it did let go.
And today, I get a call from John, asking me to come look at my front diff...The one I just built...with all new parts...that came out with a good pattern...and correct backlash.
Well, something let loose on the inside. Rotating the pinion it is anything but smooth. It sort of rumbles like a bearing let go in the pinion or the side load clearance just went away. It will turn very roughly, not smoothly like it was when I assembled it, but like it has ill fitting wooden gears. And every once in awhile, it will catch and want to bind. Hand pressure can get past the spot, but it is definitely ganked up.
I just cannot believe all this stuff is happening...
Plan is to drain it and check the oil. If we find metal, then I guess I just bought the farm. I am hoping somehow the side load loosened and can be readjusted. If no oil in the thing, then the plan is to see if the side adjusters can be moved to get the backlash back. Oh, yes, I have no idea what the backlash is now. Feels like 1"-2"...Nothing like the .018 I think I had...
I am doubting very seriously the burb will be making the trip. Looking like that duty will fall to the D-max.
Post by: JR on May 26, 2021, 07:27:54 PM
Post by: oklawall on May 26, 2021, 07:29:42 PM
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Post by: Bigdave_185 on May 26, 2021, 11:34:03 PM
Burb is sending hints. Show it whos boss,,,,,,,,,Got that sas wows your saying
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Post by: Flyin6 on May 27, 2021, 10:16:33 AM
If ever there was a time...Burb is sending hints. Show it whos boss,,,,,,,,,Got that sas wows your saying
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But
All this is teaching me a lesson
Highly modified is just not reliable
The D-Max truck is about the only thing I have ever taken that far that wasn't constantly in need of repair
The Burb is at a place where I 1. Junk it, 2. Fix it and start using it to see if it continues to work reliably, 3. Sell it
Number one is stupid and would require a lot of work
Number three would be nearly impossible and result in a huge loss of money
So only number two makes sense
So that's what I'll do, but as far as using it for anything outside a 100 mile radius would be too risky unless I was running from a zombie (democrat) hoard!
But the ride is unbelievable. That combo is nothing short of extraordinary, so that suspension will not go away just to get another axle that would cost a couple million in US dollars (after the crash) and present its own set of problems.
If I keep it, I will have something to tinker with
But the next truck/SUV I purchase will probably be newer and I will just leave it very close to stock. Something like a 3.0 L Duramax silverado RST trim or a Z-71 Tahoe diesel...
Post by: rpar86 on May 27, 2021, 12:57:44 PM
Post by: Nate on May 27, 2021, 04:25:47 PM
You’re almost there Don. I get frustrated and just want to throw the towel in too sometimes. I get it. You’ll get these last few things worked out and it will be good to go.
speaking of ryan, is your dmax taken apart at the moment?
Post by: TexasRedNeck on May 27, 2021, 06:53:48 PM
Don, I hope the rant is over. Now suck it up and get r dun.
Reality is that setting up gears is an art. Just pay for it to be done and rock on.
CM chief.
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Post by: rpar86 on May 27, 2021, 10:03:13 PM
Nope. Back together and has one trip with the camper under its belt, and just picked up the camper for a trip this weekend.You’re almost there Don. I get frustrated and just want to throw the towel in too sometimes. I get it. You’ll get these last few things worked out and it will be good to go.
speaking of ryan, is your dmax taken apart at the moment?
And put the new Bilstein 4600’s under it last night.
Post by: Flyin6 on May 27, 2021, 10:37:52 PM
Ryans is back on the road and fresh from an RV towing adventure..Yea, spose so...
Don, I hope the rant is over. Now suck it up and get r dun.
Reality is that setting up gears is an art. Just pay for it to be done and rock on.
CM chief.
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Post by: JR on May 27, 2021, 11:49:16 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on May 28, 2021, 10:11:46 AM
So did they find the cause of the t-case and front diff failure?No, and that's kind of troubling. With nothing to point at, all I have is, something unexpected happened to the T-case, and my guess is that somehow, I pushed the ring gear to proper side clearance with the adjusters, but something popped loose because there is no backlash now...Like the ring gear moved away from the pinion gear...a long way away...
Chris, over at SS transmissions did say that even though the the case was commanded to 2WD, it was locked in 4WD and remains so after removal. So, bit of a mystery there, but I can say I have been hearing more gear train noise that I recall ever hearing in any of my numerous other GM 4wd vehicles. It was making a sound like it was in 4WD. But when I shifted it into 4WD on the test drives, the day of the failure the noise would increase and I would feel the front shaft turning and the loss of power from driving all that business below my gluteus.
So I cannot dismiss improper assembly with regard to either component, but the T-case was final assembled by John at SS, an actual expert. We all saw the assembly of the front diff and it all looked and checked out good, but what if there was something between the race and the bearing in the side of the diff case? Not enough that my wrenching could have broken it, but such that under the engagement in the actual vehicle, it gave way???
or gremlins
or Demons
Or God trying to tell me something
or...
Post by: oklawall on May 28, 2021, 10:53:34 AM
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Post by: JR on May 28, 2021, 10:56:53 AM
Thinking the Tcase did some and maybe a side adjuster came loose on the front.
Post by: EL TATE on May 28, 2021, 12:47:42 PM
Post by: Nate on May 28, 2021, 02:23:03 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on May 28, 2021, 11:03:10 PM
sounds like a lock tab on an adjuster let loose and backlash was compromised, or pin nut maybe backed off, but either way keep me updated with status on that. T case is out for delivery right now.
sounds like a lock tab on an adjuster let loose and backlash was compromised, or pin nut maybe backed off, but either way keep me updated with status on that. T case is out for delivery right now.Yea, thanks for getting that T-case out so quickly. My old one is sitting on the rack already out of the truck.
Now, I may have been blessed/rescued.
John called and told me of a customer he had that had a 4.56 gear change done to his truck, then something of a catastrophic nature happened. Anyway, the gentleman on the short end of the stick just gave the newly modded axles to John, so he actually has a front 4.56 axle sitting in his shop. He has agreed to toss it into the burb to see if we can get this thing running and up to speed.
If it somehow turns back to being a R&R and a rebuild, he is 4-5 weeks, and who knows how far Cincinnati driveline is backed up. So this just may be a blessing I so desperately need at the moment.
Post by: Flyin6 on July 03, 2021, 04:54:21 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on July 03, 2021, 04:55:44 PM
Only rubbed on the drivers side...odd...I'm not that much overweight...
No damage what so ever to the tire or wheel
Post by: Flyin6 on July 03, 2021, 05:00:17 PM
The moral for those who can grasp the concept is to never work in the first place, but that just falls on deaf ears with me.
So when the new bag arrived, it was taller than the original bag by maybe 3"
So good news is it holds air. Bad news is the different size air cells raise the rear unevenly (WHAT??? How could this be???)
So I'll just order another bag and see what fate has in store for me.
I did add the 1/2" spacers to each side creating more clearance. That and I slid the air cells inward as much as I could. THe one in the pic needed correction which it received after the pic was snapped.
Post by: Bigdave_185 on July 03, 2021, 05:20:17 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on July 04, 2021, 11:15:05 AM
Can’t ya get them inside the frame instead of outside?Awfully busy in there...Panhard bar, sway bar...
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Post by: Flyin6 on July 13, 2021, 05:21:56 PM
I located it earlier over top of the rear axle inside the truck, inside that storage cabinet I build some years ago.
It works well there, but it was not retained of bolted down. so I boxed it in and bolted it down
Post by: Flyin6 on July 13, 2021, 05:24:14 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on July 13, 2021, 05:25:33 PM
Post by: oklawall on July 13, 2021, 05:52:19 PM
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Post by: Bigdave_185 on July 14, 2021, 12:32:45 PM
https://mashmotorsinc.com/
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Post by: Flyin6 on July 27, 2021, 05:44:49 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on July 27, 2021, 05:45:42 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on July 29, 2021, 10:34:22 PM
So, driving it the other night, I turned down the 2 mile lane to my house, and floored it. 1st gear was OK, maybe, but it stayed in second. I heard about five really loud bangs, I mean like the head gasket blew out and the combustion chamber was open to the atmosphere...Like that.
Driving the short distance home, it seemed normal, like nothing happened. So one heat range cooler plugs, all the right tuning, plenty of fuel, and only 12 lbs boost. Was it some sort of normal for a supercharged combo backfire???
Honestly I don't know, and I am just sick of this thing. It has very little power, but makes 550 to the tire. I guess it's just the very tall tire along with the heavy vehicle thing, but I'd have to give this thing a pig rating at best, and hillbillie junk rating if I was honest with myself.
I am not going to pour thousands into another disappointing big cube over boosted gasser, not any longer. I suppose with 1,000 cubic inches and maybe 100psi boost I can get it to move and possibly get 1 MPG, but that's just stupid.
Know what else is stupid? Converting it to a duramax. Dave sent me the MASH motorsports link and it would be like $36K just to get started with stock junk. Look up stupid, and doing that will be definition number two. (#1 was me doing all this somehow thinking it was going to work in the first place).
A duramax costs too much, would need a $6K transmission and be another electronic nightmare of high cost parts.
You know what makes the most sense for this thing other than hoping it gets stolen? Putting an old school mechanical 12 valve in it, keeping the power lower, and hooking it to the 4L80E and driving the thing.
I was thinking about it. 100 over injectors, a nice P-pump and compounds would likely yield nearly 20 mpg and could deliver 1000 ft lbs. More than some crazy stupid over done LS piece of crap that would get like no mpg.
I'm so pissed at this thing, I just may do it!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on July 29, 2021, 10:42:10 PM
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Post by: stlaser on July 29, 2021, 11:03:06 PM
Can you check out the IP addresses, pretty sure a Dave or Ken affiliate (H maybe?) or someone hacked Don’s user name…….. :popcorn:
Post by: stlaser on July 29, 2021, 11:05:15 PM
I knew this guy once that had a p pump12v out of an old dodge project truck he never finished……
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Negative, that p pump wouldn’t run
Post by: KensAuto on July 30, 2021, 02:17:43 PM
Hey, I'm the only knucklehead that tried to get Don to leave this one alone because of how clean it was.I knew this guy once that had a p pump12v out of an old dodge project truck he never finished……
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Negative, that p pump wouldn’t run
You guys created this monster!
Post by: Sammconn on July 30, 2021, 03:48:52 PM
Give me a few months and I’ll have an LBZ that’s for sale.Hey, I'm the only knucklehead that tried to get Don to leave this one alone because of how clean it was.I knew this guy once that had a p pump12v out of an old dodge project truck he never finished……
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Negative, that p pump wouldn’t run
You guys created this monster!
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Albeit it is a couple generations newer…
Post by: JR on July 30, 2021, 05:57:40 PM
I see P pumps going for 4k now, crazy.
Post by: Flyin6 on July 31, 2021, 09:02:14 AM
:popcorn:Maybe not even a P-Pump. Possibly a VE pump. even that would out power this pathetic LS cream puff of a drag race/non-truck motor
I see P pumps going for 4k now, crazy.
Post by: stlaser on July 31, 2021, 09:26:13 AM
:popcorn:Maybe not even a P-Pump. Possibly a VE pump. even that would out power this pathetic LS cream puff of a drag race/non-truck motor
I see P pumps going for 4k now, crazy.
So I’ve lost track of this truck with all the hoops and loops the pilot owner has put it thru……
Couple questions, statements now that I’ve poked some fun and DOT’d myself into satisfaction….
What does this pig weigh exactly now?
4.56 gears
Stall converter?
500hp motor? That’s a lot of power, something isn’t managed correctly…..
Speaking of which who is tuning this as of late?
It’s not a diesel or a chinook or a suzuki 2 wheeler at the end of the day.
Diesels aren’t cheap even ve Cummins motors. Get this right with what you have and drive it. My 2 cents
Post by: stlaser on July 31, 2021, 09:27:19 AM
Hey, I'm the only knucklehead that tried to get Don to leave this one alone because of how clean it was.I knew this guy once that had a p pump12v out of an old dodge project truck he never finished……
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Negative, that p pump wouldn’t run
You guys created this monster!
You are a knucklehead :knucklehead:
Post by: Sammconn on July 31, 2021, 10:30:43 AM
This.:popcorn:Maybe not even a P-Pump. Possibly a VE pump. even that would out power this pathetic LS cream puff of a drag race/non-truck motor
I see P pumps going for 4k now, crazy.
So I’ve lost track of this truck with all the hoops and loops the pilot owner has put it thru……
Couple questions, statements now that I’ve poked some fun and DOT’d myself into satisfaction….
What does this pig weigh exactly now?
4.56 gears
Stall converter?
500hp motor? That’s a lot of power, something isn’t managed correctly…..
Speaking of which who is tuning this as of late?
It’s not a diesel or a chinook or a suzuki 2 wheeler at the end of the day.
Diesels aren’t cheap even ve Cummins motors. Get this right with what you have and drive it. My 2 cents
Post by: Flyin6 on August 03, 2021, 09:45:31 PM
Post by: oldkoot on August 04, 2021, 10:59:04 AM
Post by: JR on August 04, 2021, 05:36:51 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on August 07, 2021, 07:15:26 AM
Maybe its just me.... but why wouldn't a stock LS be enough for an adventure rig? just did Colorado/Moab/SD trails a plenty in my wifes Jeep Gladiator, combined with 3000+ miles of gravel and dirt roads across the USA and it's not real spunky stock engine did just fine. It did fine in the snow at 12K plus elevation, it did fine on the slick rock and sand of Moab and it did fine in the rocks and mud of South Dakota. Even averaged close to 17mpg for the trip.I am actually inclined to agree. The stocker will move the thing and even (supposedly) tow a good load. And this mill does move it around nicely, just not powerful. But the more I think about it, maybe I just don't need a bunch of excess power. This LS, the 6.0 LQ4 line are gas suckers. The supercharger only adds a nice whine to the noise, but adds nothing to power output. You get slow as a stocker, or slow with a supercharged sound with my combo.
Anyway, I think I'm just gonna set my sights lower and just drive it. I don't need another project, as the farm is taking up 110% of my time.
Post by: JR on August 07, 2021, 11:08:03 AM
Just get a nice 6.2, sell the supercharged motor and you will make $$$. I had a 6.0 and it was a dog with terrible mileage no matter what I tried.
Post by: Flyin6 on August 08, 2021, 06:00:16 PM
It has to be in the tune Don. You said it popsI drove it today to some football scrimmage games. It ran great. It backfired 5-6 times in a row, that one time while at high RPM and 12 lbs boost. Now the idle is not as stable, so something has indeed changed, but I don't know what
Just get a nice 6.2, sell the supercharged motor and you will make $$$. I had a 6.0 and it was a dog with terrible mileage no matter what I tried.
But
Speaking purely about the power thing, I think I am just going to have to start to accept that all the vehicles I drive will not be as powerful as I would like them to be.
Really thinking about it, the vehicle is not the problem...It is me
^^^Some personal growth here^^^^
I think I am starting to just accept that some things are not meant to do all the things I envision them to do, physics being what they are and all that...
If I do anything to this truck (current thinking) it will be to build a larger cu in LS that naturally makes more torque and bolt on a reasonable power adder if I add anything at all.
I still do want it to pull my mini-camper along well, so a bit more torque would be helpful.
But, for the moment, I just don't have the time to do anything with it...The farm/Homestead project if you can still call it that is taking up almost all my free time.
Post by: JR on August 08, 2021, 06:44:26 PM
Post by: stlaser on August 08, 2021, 07:10:50 PM
Post by: TexasRedNeck on August 08, 2021, 07:16:18 PM
https://latemodelengines.com
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Post by: JR on August 08, 2021, 07:21:11 PM
Post by: oldkoot on August 09, 2021, 01:35:52 PM
As for the transfer case.... Al the damage/issues sound like it was binding up. If it was assembled correctly this would not have happened. Same is true of the front diff. No matter how crappy the chev IFS is, they usually survive driving on the road LoL
I'd wager a little chassis dyno tuning by a true professional, (not cheap) and it would run fine despite the poor combination.
Just a farmers opinion.
Post by: KensAuto on August 13, 2021, 01:00:57 AM
That being said, I don't remember if you put in a race pump or not.
Post by: Flyin6 on August 13, 2021, 11:50:47 AM
The one thing that I would question is fuel pressure. Probably a lean condition. Since it wasn't backfiring before, something changed. Tuning usually doesn't change, and I can't tell you how many GM application fuel pumps I've warrantied lately, no matter the brand. They're ALL junk...Denso, Delco, Spectre, Carter, etc. If the pumps aren't failing, the dang level sensors are.That's not it ken.
That being said, I don't remember if you put in a race pump or not.
I have a "Race/forced induction" fuel system in there. It has large lines and two very high capacity fuel pumps. One for normal and the second kinks in above 7psi fuel pressure.
And here's another thing
Since I had it supercharged, that was the first time I ever stuck my foot into the throttle that far for that long. I just don't hot rod around all that much
Post by: EL TATE on August 13, 2021, 01:42:16 PM
The one thing that I would question is fuel pressure. Probably a lean condition. Since it wasn't backfiring before, something changed. Tuning usually doesn't change, and I can't tell you how many GM application fuel pumps I've warrantied lately, no matter the brand. They're ALL junk...Denso, Delco, Spectre, Carter, etc. If the pumps aren't failing, the dang level sensors are.That's not it ken.
That being said, I don't remember if you put in a race pump or not.
I have a "Race/forced induction" fuel system in there. It has large lines and two very high capacity fuel pumps. One for normal and the second kinks in above 7psi fuel pressure.
And here's another thing
Since I had it supercharged, that was the first time I ever stuck my foot into the throttle that far for that long. I just don't hot rod around all that much
underperforming injectors maybe?
Post by: Flyin6 on August 13, 2021, 07:27:17 PM
new 100 pph, flow tested in a batch.The one thing that I would question is fuel pressure. Probably a lean condition. Since it wasn't backfiring before, something changed. Tuning usually doesn't change, and I can't tell you how many GM application fuel pumps I've warrantied lately, no matter the brand. They're ALL junk...Denso, Delco, Spectre, Carter, etc. If the pumps aren't failing, the dang level sensors are.That's not it ken.
That being said, I don't remember if you put in a race pump or not.
I have a "Race/forced induction" fuel system in there. It has large lines and two very high capacity fuel pumps. One for normal and the second kinks in above 7psi fuel pressure.
And here's another thing
Since I had it supercharged, that was the first time I ever stuck my foot into the throttle that far for that long. I just don't hot rod around all that much
underperforming injectors maybe?
I don't think its those, but I am suspecting tune.
On the dyno, Nick could not get a top gear pull, had to do it in little 1st gear pulls, way brief. Some sort of limitation on the Mustang Dyno and big trucks and 37's.
I am thinking I go back that route and get some more tuning. I have a HP, so I can record data. I think I make some passes and log the data, then get smarter about what to look for, and give it to Nick.
Post by: KensAuto on August 13, 2021, 10:31:18 PM
Hate to see you burn a valve, or worse yet, a piston
Post by: Flyin6 on August 16, 2021, 04:31:28 PM
Here's what i found out: I decided to search the web and find a stock 4L80E trans tune and compare that to what was in my truck.
On the HP tuners site, if you have an account, you can access the tune depository. I searched and found a stock tune from a 2003 Silverado, 2500, Non-HD with a LQ4 gasser.
It is a bit laborious, but table by table I copied all the stock stuff onto my wacked out tune.
I texted Nick who confirmed that he had not touched the stock tune, also believing it is the best thing out there. This 4L80E trans can handle over 850 ft/lbs input torque easily enough with no pressure adjustments.
But when i compared my tune with the stocker it was way, way off. My conclusion: Black Bear tuning had messed with everything, and not a little, but he changed everything and that was creating this terrible 1-2 shift and failure to upshift into overdrive and a bunch of other problems.
I loaded that into the Burb and went for a ride.
The thing works great! All that Black Bear crap is gone and the truck, now for the very first time is a pleasure to drive.
YIPPEE
Post by: Atkinsmatt on August 16, 2021, 05:11:44 PM
Post by: EL TATE on August 16, 2021, 05:45:09 PM
Post by: oklawall on August 16, 2021, 05:55:01 PM
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Post by: JR on August 16, 2021, 06:25:50 PM
Post by: TexasRedNeck on August 16, 2021, 07:45:11 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on August 16, 2021, 09:46:49 PM
Congrats Don. Apparently NSDQ applies to tuning as well.Seems to apply to everything...Much to my Frau's chagrin!
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Post by: stlaser on August 16, 2021, 11:12:19 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on October 05, 2021, 01:10:15 PM
The shift out of first now happens almost immediately so the hard shift that used to be there is almost gone.
But
When I use the towing mode that shift rises to a higher MPH and again, sadly, shifts hard to very hard
So I am putting a stop to all that. This week John at SS Transmissions is installing a rebuilt valve body with the Sonnax shift improver kit installed.
Everyone who uses that shift kit loves it. The Trans-Go kit is absolutely NOT THE WAY TO GO! I guess it works well for sled pullers or drag racers or people who just don't care (The type who run "Rollin-coal tunes" or with no mufflers, you know, those without brains) but 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999% of everyone else likes the Sonnax stuff.
Nuff said, that thing will be a part of the Burb's DNA as of Friday, this week.
Moving ahead, the truck still feels like it has very little power. Granted, that is due in part to having 37" tires, and part to being heavy, but 600 horsepower ought to do something. After a conversation with John, he feels the fault lies heavily with the converter.
So I called Monster transmission to talk that through. In a nutshell, the converter I have in the truck is all wrong for this application. It is rated for around 350HP, has a higher stall than factory and is more or less light duty.
My heavy truck needs a lower stall converter, not a higher stall converter. It also needs to accommodate a lot more power, like the later diesel converters handling thousands of ft/lbs of power. After some discussion, I learned that the converter I am using will break or has broken and simply is overloaded in every area.
They agreed to build me a fully customized billet converter with triple discs, anti ballooning welding and plates, and all the good stuff. They will warranty it for years to handle in excess of 900 HP.
So for $1299, I placed my order
https://www.monstertransmission.com/-GM-Chevrolet-4L80E-Diesel-Torque-Converter--Thor-HEAVY-HAMMER--Level-2_p_16586.html
Post by: JR on October 05, 2021, 02:06:15 PM
Hope this gets it in the ballpark for all the effort and $$ you have in it.
I just got a couple upgrades for my burb, will post there.
Post by: EL TATE on October 05, 2021, 05:07:33 PM
Update: I have been using the stock transmission tuning now for weeks, driving 4-5 times a week.
The shift out of first now happens almost immediately so the hard shift that used to be there is almost gone.
But
When I use the towing mode that shift rises to a higher MPH and again, sadly, shifts hard to very hard
So I am putting a stop to all that. This week John at SS Transmissions is installing a rebuilt valve body with the Sonnax shift improver kit installed.
Everyone who uses that shift kit loves it. The Trans-Go kit is absolutely NOT THE WAY TO GO! I guess it works well for sled pullers or drag racers or people who just don't care (The type who run "Rollin-coal tunes" or with no mufflers, you know, those without brains) but 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999% of everyone else likes the Sonnax stuff.
Nuff said, that thing will be a part of the Burb's DNA as of Friday, this week.
Moving ahead, the truck still feels like it has very little power. Granted, that is due in part to having 37" tires, and part to being heavy, but 600 horsepower ought to do something. After a conversation with John, he feels the fault lies heavily with the converter.
So I called Monster transmission to talk that through. In a nutshell, the converter I have in the truck is all wrong for this application. It is rated for around 350HP, has a higher stall than factory and is more or less light duty.
My heavy truck needs a lower stall converter, not a higher stall converter. It also needs to accommodate a lot more power, like the later diesel converters handling thousands of ft/lbs of power. After some discussion, I learned that the converter I am using will break or has broken and simply is overloaded in every area.
They agreed to build me a fully customized billet converter with triple discs, anti ballooning welding and plates, and all the good stuff. They will warranty it for years to handle in excess of 900 HP.
So for $1299, I placed my order
https://www.monstertransmission.com/-GM-Chevrolet-4L80E-Diesel-Torque-Converter--Thor-HEAVY-HAMMER--Level-2_p_16586.html
Been selling to those guys for years, even trained their phone team on diff parts at one time. Good folks.
Post by: Flyin6 on October 05, 2021, 06:12:44 PM
That would be OK, but I have a speed density tune.
Found a guy who tunes
He does not work for the general public, but for three select performance shops. He's a software engineer who is also a hot-rodder. We are working on getting him now.
Post by: Nate on October 05, 2021, 07:43:32 PM
Post by: stlaser on October 05, 2021, 08:12:14 PM
Post by: TexasRedNeck on October 05, 2021, 08:45:46 PM
You’ll get there eventually
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Post by: Flyin6 on October 06, 2021, 01:04:50 PM
Are you no longer working with nick, or whatever the guys name is that did all of that dynoing fod you?He is not a part of this phase. I may well return to him after the converter swap.
I would rather have a "real-world" tune as opposed to a dyno tune.
Here's why: When Nick got done with it and I took it, the trans was shifting into overdrive by 24MPH, an obvious miss. Something like that would not show up on a dyno pull, but if you drove it, you should have noticed it right away. My Z06 was tuned years ago by an engineer who drove it many times while recording data. He would make changes, then test again. What I got back was an atomic bomb with a coat of lightening! It was SOOO Powerful, it was almost unmanageable.
By comparison, this Burb is supposedly making more power but feels like a 4cyl pinto with a missing spark plug cable. Something is not right...
Post by: JR on October 06, 2021, 01:11:14 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on October 06, 2021, 01:17:53 PM
Hey, I learned to drive in a pinto wagon!I actually owned two. A coup and a station wagon!
Edit: Actually three, although one was called a SVO Mustang instead of a pinto
Post by: KensAuto on October 06, 2021, 03:23:08 PM
Hey, I learned to drive in a pinto wagon!My first driver was a pinto. Built the engine in shop class. Wish I would have learned how to install the oil control rings before I got in a fight with the teacher, which resulted in taking the engine home to complete. ... which resulted in a mosquito killer.
Post by: JR on October 06, 2021, 06:45:31 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on October 07, 2021, 10:44:46 AM
I was texting with Nick who was talking with John about the Burb.
I told them I had ordered a custom built Monster Torque Converter. Nick had a reaction like when you take a swig of water and discover it is actually vinegar (Ask me how I know??)
Had a bunch to say about my choice of a builder. Told me I'd be removing it after I couldn't get it to work.
I processed all that for awhile and decided to call and cancel the Monster order. That is in the rear view mirror. In its place, I ordered a custom Circle-D torque converter. Circle-D has a great rep, is located in Houston, TX and was recommended by, well, everyone.
The one they spec'd for me will be a custom 265mm billet unit, bully welded, triple clutch disc, Torrington bearings, brazing and, well, all the tricks. They recommended a 2,600 flash stall after inputting my cam specs, weight, towing weight, horsepower, tire size, gear ratio and my Sunday mornin' disposition! ;-)
Should ship in two weeks from yesterday.
Nick and John both think the converter I have is a big part of the power issue I am having. That, and they found faulty O2 sensors yesterday, so we are definitely on track to fixing this thing.
Post by: stlaser on October 07, 2021, 11:00:55 AM
I agree monsters rep isn’t very good, circle d is top of the line
Post by: EL TATE on October 07, 2021, 12:56:59 PM
:likebutton:
I agree monsters rep isn’t very good, circle d is top of the line
I have missed something here. you can private message if you don't want to share on the open forum here, but also it's been 6 years since I was in their facility, training these reps face to face. I wonder if my graduating class moved on and the new batch is floundering?
Post by: stlaser on October 07, 2021, 05:05:46 PM
:likebutton:
I agree monsters rep isn’t very good, circle d is top of the line
I have missed something here. you can private message if you don't want to share on the open forum here, but also it's been 6 years since I was in their facility, training these reps face to face. I wonder if my graduating class moved on and the new batch is floundering?
Sent you a text, no personal experience just friends and shops I deal with locally.
Post by: Flyin6 on October 07, 2021, 05:44:43 PM
Best to discuss in private:likebutton:
I agree monsters rep isn’t very good, circle d is top of the line
I have missed something here. you can private message if you don't want to share on the open forum here, but also it's been 6 years since I was in their facility, training these reps face to face. I wonder if my graduating class moved on and the new batch is floundering?
Post by: EL TATE on October 07, 2021, 06:07:06 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on October 21, 2021, 06:31:14 PM
P0135
P0135 is the OBD-II generic code indicating the engine control module (ECM) has tested the O2 sensor heater circuit and has detected a problem with the bank 1 sensor 1 O2 sensor heater circuit. What causes the P0135 code? The ECM tests the O2 sensor heater circuit at first startup for excessive current draw and opens or shorts.
P0155
This code refers to the front oxygen sensor on Bank 2. The heated circuit in the oxygen sensor decreases time needed to enter closed loop. As the O2 heater reaches operating temperature, the oxygen sensor responds by switching according to oxygen content of the exhaust surrounding it.
So, both O2 sensors did not suddenly fail.
But both O2 sensor internal heaters did!
therefore
I am thinking one of the fuses that protect that circuit has failed
Any other ideas?
Post by: JR on October 21, 2021, 07:03:58 PM
Post by: TexasRedNeck on October 24, 2021, 08:35:14 AM
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Post by: Flyin6 on October 24, 2021, 12:16:53 PM
What did you find out Don?Nothing yet Tex
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I strongly suspect a fuse, one of those cube looking ones that power that circuit.
Been building at the farm so...
But that nice converter just showed up, so its game time to get that sorted and the software tweaked for trans shift scheduling so John can do the hard work and get me on the road in the correct configuration
One thing that stuck out in the research/diagnosis phase: A symptom of a failed O2 Sensor heater circuit is horrible fuel economy
Checked that block, sub 10 MPG since, well, forever
Now having said that, I am optimistically thinking I may be about to summit the slippery slope whilst pushing along that big ball of parts and get this thing as good as it is going to get, and useable for whatever I put it to.
But it will simply never be the world conquering go anywhere vehicle I want it to be. The final solution is a diesel powered truck that can attain 20+ MPG whilst providing 1000+ ft./lbs. available torque.
Although a duramax could get that done I am not inclined to go that route because of the cost and the complexity along with the ability to troubleshoot and repair a complex electrical/software morass while half the way up to the base camp on K2.
The only thing that makes sense if to put a Cummins 12 valve in there. An old school one requiring zero electronics. I can do that and with keeping the power turned down bolt it right up to a 4L80E. Or I could toss an Allison 6 speed behind it with a stand alone controller and possibly hit mid 20's in fuel economy.
I feel strongly that once I clear this cabin build (April 2023 ish) I will embark on that endeavor.
The price of new vehicles is ridiculous, and frankly embarrassing. What fool will be the one to loose the first 20-30K on the purchase of one? As we get into a new era of shortages of everything, locking down on anything you own makes total sense. so what if I end the game of life on earth driving a 2002? Did I not measure up? Not as cool as my neighbor?
Or
Did I stand my ground, make a statement about frugality, and actually have been a good steward of the money God has given me?
Post by: JR on October 24, 2021, 01:34:45 PM
Start looking!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 24, 2021, 01:38:34 PM
Not a bad choice but motors have gone up to. I am seeing 12v going for over 2k now, I paid 1k.I found one
Start looking!
Post by: stlaser on October 24, 2021, 03:15:36 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on October 24, 2021, 07:05:02 PM
I have an inexpensive 24v short block if someone needed or wantedI may be.
I think I have a complete 12 valve VE pump engine, which would be the one I'd rebuild for the burb, but I have thought about building a 24 valve with a P-pump
Post by: JR on October 24, 2021, 09:46:43 PM
Still not hard to get 400hp from it, just a turbo and injectors.
Post by: stlaser on October 24, 2021, 10:24:26 PM
I have an inexpensive 24v short block if someone needed or wantedI may be.
I think I have a complete 12 valve VE pump engine, which would be the one I'd rebuild for the burb, but I have thought about building a 24 valve with a P-pump
Well, you have number.
Post by: Flyin6 on November 08, 2021, 05:29:11 PM
John will pull the transmission and install a modified valve body with a sonnex shift kit, and the new Circle-D converter.
I am hoping this gets me on course to what I have been seeking all along.
Post by: JR on November 08, 2021, 07:25:08 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on November 11, 2021, 07:12:10 PM
Today: Building up transmission with a donor valve body fitted with the sonnax shift improver kit.
Triple clutch Circle D 10.5" converter. Still too small a diameter in John's opinion, but essentially, no one makes a larger cover. The smaller diameter of this size converter prevents the use of a larger pump like that which is found in our diesel converters.
John is quite "iffy" as to whether or not this thing will work. It can, however do things the other converter could not. For example, you could not lock the other converter under boost. The single clutch simply would not hold the torque. But this thing can lock during a shift under full boost and not hurt anything.
I could for example command it to lock up mid second gear and stay that way all the way up. Or I could lock and unlock it whenever I want to make the trans act like an 8-speed.
Post by: Flyin6 on November 11, 2021, 07:15:45 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on November 11, 2021, 07:17:26 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on November 11, 2021, 07:19:17 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on November 11, 2021, 07:21:19 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on November 11, 2021, 07:23:17 PM
That Camaro has some strange rubber
He used it for some mud drags at the fair a week or two ago...strange!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 11, 2021, 07:25:21 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on November 11, 2021, 07:26:38 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on November 11, 2021, 07:28:32 PM
S&S Transmission and car care
Alexandria, KY
Post by: JR on November 11, 2021, 07:59:36 PM
Post by: Bigdave_185 on November 11, 2021, 09:54:53 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on November 12, 2021, 10:15:15 AM
Really a clean looking burb. Hope this is the fixIt is like that everywhere. Every time I pulled off a panel, I found only dust. No rot, no accumulation of dirt, no signs of mice, no rust or corrosion. It all seemed almost like new except for the rear axle area that had some dirt scattered about, no doubt from use. I have taken it off road in gooey mud, but it cleaned up nice thanks to blue beacon truck wash!
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Post by: Flyin6 on November 20, 2021, 04:16:18 PM
The CEL is off now and the engine is making a bunch of power. Not diesel power, but a whole lot more than before.
The converter was sold to me as a 2600 stall converter. It is not. John was exactly correct in saying all along that you can't get a low stall in a smaller diameter TC. We stalled it against the brakes and it finally spun the rear tires in gravel at 3300 RPM. If I drive light throttle in traffic it will tach around 2600 until it either gets to speed or the converter locks up.
Speaking of the lockup, it is like being bumped in the rear by a car moving 5mph. It hits pretty hard, and I confess I have never seen that before. I also believe I may be able to sort that out with tuning.
The shifting is now butter smooth. That's great. Overall I'd say I am 70% of the way there. It stalled once when cold, something it should never do, so that has to be looked into. John thinks the thing is pretty powerful and hauls the mail. I guess I am just used to my D-Max truck because it does not feel fast to me, well, maybe sometimes.
So today I went into the test/tune mode.
First I cleared the DTC's. And I have no new ones, so perhaps the O2 sensor heater thing is fixed with the reattachment of that dangling ground wire.
I went into the transmission tune and changed everything in there to a tune I found on line for a 6.0, 2002 Silverado non-HD. Comparing the trans files, I liked those better. I tried to correct the fuel gage which now only reads 3/4 when full, but so far no-Bueno on that count. I also readjusted tire size to what John suggested, that is programming in the exact tire height. I can tell you that is wrong after doing it. I was indicating 80 on the highway and all the traffic was passing me, so I went back in and subtracted .5" from the listed 36.7" height Kanati states for the tire height.
I pumped the tires up to 40 and put 60 lbs in the air bags. The ride was sloppy, but tightened up, so that was a net-positive.
On the tuning side, I have a gentlemen, one of the very best interested in tuning the truck. I have to work through John as he does not like the public to know of his work, but he is the guy who broke the GM unbreakable code. He wrote the blue cat transmission tuning program and he is who HP tuners calls in to fix their messes. He will add the final touches to the truck and make it all that it can be.
At the moment it is very capable of just about anything. I think it could drive across country towing my camper. It should only improve from here.
Post by: JR on November 20, 2021, 05:06:37 PM
Try playing with the tank size. Mine still reads full OK, but starts to move slow then dumps. When the light comes on (rarely when going to NV to fill) I still 10 gal in there.
Same with tire size, finally got it 1mph under, which I can live with.
Post by: Flyin6 on November 21, 2021, 10:56:25 AM
Glad you are getting there. TO bad it took this long a couple "tuners" to find issues.Copy that JR, still tweaking
Try playing with the tank size. Mine still reads full OK, but starts to move slow then dumps. When the light comes on (rarely when going to NV to fill) I still 10 gal in there.
Same with tire size, finally got it 1mph under, which I can live with.
But with my fuel issue, all at once the gage no longer reads full after I fill up. Now it will only go to 3/4 full on the gage. That happened right after reloading a major tune change which has me thinking I turned something off without knowing it.
But
With that problematic 6 gallon factory aux tank sitting in there, it makes me wonder if that simply stopped working properly.
If I understand it properly, when you are filling the tank, you are actually filling the 6 gal aux tank and that is spilling over into the 31.5 gallon main tank. Then later on a second electric pump located in the aux tank pumps the remaining fuel over into the high pressure side of the supply line to feed the engine until it is exhausted, then some low fuel level sending unit in the aux tank cuts power to that pump and the main tank pump takes over.
That could point to a malfunction of that aux pump setup...Dunno...
Post by: rpar86 on November 21, 2021, 11:55:39 AM
Post by: Flyin6 on November 21, 2021, 11:03:28 PM
Have you ruled out the stepper motor in the gauge cluster being bad? They’re known to do that.Have not?
Hmmm another element to consider
So you're saying this stepper motor failure will manifest in this very manner? I ask because I have never heard nor seen anything like that before
Post by: JR on November 21, 2021, 11:30:29 PM
Post by: rpar86 on November 22, 2021, 12:30:39 AM
The fact that it started happening right after you changed the tune is suspicious though.
Like JR says, plenty of places that rebuild those clusters all the time.
Now after saying this, yours is an 02 and might not be applicable given what I’m seeing here.
https://www.gmgaugerepair.com/chevrolet-instrument-cluster-repair/digital-gauge-cluster/
Post by: Flyin6 on November 22, 2021, 10:00:47 AM
The stepper motors just start acting “weird”. Not reading right when they always have before, going past their min/max, etc.Looks like 2003 up, not 2002.
The fact that it started happening right after you changed the tune is suspicious though.
Like JR says, plenty of places that rebuild those clusters all the time.
Now after saying this, yours is an 02 and might not be applicable given what I’m seeing here.
https://www.gmgaugerepair.com/chevrolet-instrument-cluster-repair/digital-gauge-cluster/
I wonder what changed?
Post by: TexasRedNeck on November 22, 2021, 07:06:17 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on November 24, 2021, 09:32:28 AM
The can bus communication protocol changed, which is why on later models you can drop in a later model engine and do a re-learn. 2001-2002 are the least compatible."Why me!!!!!!!"
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Post by: TexasRedNeck on November 24, 2021, 10:19:09 AM
Well we are in the same boatThe can bus communication protocol changed, which is why on later models you can drop in a later model engine and do a re-learn. 2001-2002 are the least compatible."Why me!!!!!!!"
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Post by: KensAuto on November 24, 2021, 05:03:21 PM
Because you're the one that hacked up a clean one owner?The can bus communication protocol changed, which is why on later models you can drop in a later model engine and do a re-learn. 2001-2002 are the least compatible."Why me!!!!!!!"
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Still love you boss.
Post by: JR on November 24, 2021, 05:07:13 PM
Post by: oklawall on November 24, 2021, 09:34:43 PM
Because you're the one that hacked up a clean one owner?The can bus communication protocol changed, which is why on later models you can drop in a later model engine and do a re-learn. 2001-2002 are the least compatible."Why me!!!!!!!"
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Still love you boss.
Do I see a firing in your future?
Post by: KensAuto on November 24, 2021, 09:43:34 PM
Reverse psychology, I'm shooting for another raise.Because you're the one that hacked up a clean one owner?The can bus communication protocol changed, which is why on later models you can drop in a later model engine and do a re-learn. 2001-2002 are the least compatible."Why me!!!!!!!"
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Still love you boss.
Do I see a firing in your future?
Post by: JR on November 24, 2021, 10:06:11 PM
Post by: TexasRedNeck on November 25, 2021, 06:04:53 AM
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Post by: Flyin6 on November 25, 2021, 08:45:24 PM
I thought about if for a minute, then realized it's thanks-givin'.Because you're the one that hacked up a clean one owner?The can bus communication protocol changed, which is why on later models you can drop in a later model engine and do a re-learn. 2001-2002 are the least compatible."Why me!!!!!!!"
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Still love you boss.
Do I see a firing in your future?
So although I wasn't givin any thanks for the hackin' komment, I guess I was givin' a bit
I'm givin' the sun burnt trouble maker a little grace! ;-)
Post by: Flyin6 on November 25, 2021, 08:46:45 PM
It didn't work!Reverse psychology, I'm shooting for another raise.Because you're the one that hacked up a clean one owner?The can bus communication protocol changed, which is why on later models you can drop in a later model engine and do a re-learn. 2001-2002 are the least compatible."Why me!!!!!!!"
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Still love you boss.
Do I see a firing in your future?
Git back to work!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 25, 2021, 08:47:36 PM
H would slander Don with a full court media press aided by her cronies. Say that he beat baby seals for fun in Afghanistan. If that didn’t work, Don would die from some mysterious cause.Those things were seals?
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Post by: Flyin6 on November 29, 2021, 05:48:25 PM
Ya, no getting around it. The new converter revs the engine all the time and will unlock the moment you get out of it (Tuning issue)
When the converter locks you get good power from the engine. With that supercharger you can push up any hill at 70 with just boost.
But the engine is always working. I think I have the speedo dialed in which gave me my first good fuel mileage check.
Gents, its awful, much worse that I ever imagined. So no towing and light cruise it just delivered 7.63 mpg over a 225 mile loop.
There is no amount of tuning that will ever fix that. The converter is a fail and absolutely does not do what Circle-D said it would do. It's not even close. They sold me a bill of goods. I asked for a low stall and I got a triple disc unit that will lock somewhere from 2800-3300 RPM.
I do have the best tuner in the country interested in it, but that is more $$$ and I am done with this. It will never be a useful truck. Sure I can toss a grand here and another there and get it to one out of three things but to ever be able to tow and get mileage, well that is no where near any reality I could achieve.
So my plan from here is:
1. Not to spend any more money on it
2. Not to go forward with more tuning unless its free
3. Either sell the thing outright
4. Or, if that doesn't happen then the motor comes out
Should I decide to go with option 4, then I will procure a non electronic 6BT, rebuild it to near stock and install it with the stock 4L80E and drive that.
As a lesson learned. Gas engines just can't move weight around efficiently. Yea they can get a camaro down the strip in 10 seconds but in a big truck with big tires they are useless, and frankly, I hate them. I would have said they are junk but I think the performance speaks for itself
I guess my Suburban project with the gas engine is one huge, strike that, one titanic failure!
Post by: JR on November 29, 2021, 07:41:35 PM
Since everyone who knows anything is saying the TC is junk, send it back. Sure you can challenge the charge if they fight it.
If not I can understand the 6BT, but why a 4L80? I keep thinking about keeping my 46R, but going with a tap shift.
Post by: oklawall on November 29, 2021, 08:20:51 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on November 29, 2021, 10:34:35 PM
Square D all over,,,,,,,,ouch.I'm going to send it back and demand my money back. Of course I will lose the $1,000 R&R charge
Since everyone who knows anything is saying the TC is junk, send it back. Sure you can challenge the charge if they fight it.
If not I can understand the 6BT, but why a 4L80? I keep thinking about keeping my 46R, but going with a tap shift.
Post by: wyorunner on November 30, 2021, 04:20:29 AM
Square D all over,,,,,,,,ouch.Sure I’ve only got 5000 miles on our 46rh, less than 1000 after rebuild, but I often wish I’d have put something different. But, it was cheapest, was present, and required no modification so we ran it.
Since everyone who knows anything is saying the TC is junk, send it back. Sure you can challenge the charge if they fight it.
If not I can understand the 6BT, but why a 4L80? I keep thinking about keeping my 46R, but going with a tap shift.
The one huge down side of the 46rh is parts are becoming more and more limited by the day. Torque converters are ridiculous, core charge is 900 most places.
All that to say, something like a 4l80 makes some sense to me.
Post by: TexasRedNeck on November 30, 2021, 06:25:14 AM
That would solve your trans/tc problems.
Fuel mileage is still going to be a concern but should get better with less slippage. Doubt you’ll get over 10
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Post by: Flyin6 on November 30, 2021, 09:12:42 AM
Don I believe the Allison will fit behind it and be compatible with your controller system although only the five speed on your 2001 unless you do the 5-6 speed valve body upgrade. The 8.1 came with it.Tex, when you look at just solving an issue like a transmission/torque converter problem but then still only having a 10 mpg (unladen) max, that's just plain stupid.
That would solve your trans/tc problems.
Fuel mileage is still going to be a concern but should get better with less slippage. Doubt you’ll get over 10
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This combo is untenable, and I should have realized it earlier.
If all I wanted was a Saturday night cruiser with a lot of stoplight to stoplight git-up-n-go, then it may have a role, but I wanted it as a trans-America vehicle hauling my camper.
I'm going to have to turn the page in this book and start a new chapter I feel.
As a final last resort, I just tossed it a life preserver in the form of an email to this genius tuner John speaks of. I'll bet that he concurs with me with the 6BT transplant idea.
Post by: dave945 on November 30, 2021, 11:06:17 AM
Just my two cents from a Dave that served in the Air Force. Let the gaming begin. ;)
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Post by: JR on November 30, 2021, 11:08:55 AM
Can a TC cost you 50% in your mileage, you bet.
I like the allison idea over all, came in lots of things.
Post by: EL TATE on November 30, 2021, 11:24:44 AM
Just to be the weird one in the group, I really don’t understand why you aren’t able to get better mileage out of it. I’m running the same engine(minus tuning, cam, supercharger and big tires). I regularly get between 12-14 mpg, and that is combination back roads and highway, with me sometimes making the kids happy when they say “go faster daddy”. Not to mention this is a 3/4 ton van with 500k miles on it. Something just doesn’t sound right to me. Maybe your transfer case is stuck in 4wd, maybe you’re just pouring gas on the ground when you are driving it around, but to me it seems illogical.
Just my two cents from a Dave that served in the Air Force. Let the gaming begin. ;)
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before all the transfercase/torque converter issues popped up, he geared back up to 4.56 from 4.88 when he took out that monster custom military dana 80 thing. now that all the other drivetrain gremlins have been "sorted out" it probably needs the 4.88 back in there so he's not flooring it to get out of his own way. you're averaging 12-14, and he's getting 7+, not really that far off when you think about what it would be like if you added 2000lbs of gear and floored it every time you left a stop.
pay no attention to this man behind the curtain, however. gearing will NOT get you the power you desire Don. Proceed with the diesel swap. fire for effect.
Post by: Flyin6 on December 01, 2021, 03:35:01 PM
and
12-13 MPG would not be all that helpful
Thing is, I just don't think that after all this effort, this gasser idea is viable at all, especially when you add in towing.
Post by: JR on December 01, 2021, 04:06:09 PM
Post by: Bigdave_185 on December 01, 2021, 09:41:39 PM
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Post by: JR on December 01, 2021, 09:48:21 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on December 04, 2021, 08:36:57 PM
Deja vu anyone?Well, I'm not going to part this one out, but it is clearly not able to do what I want it to do so something has to change.
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I think I have the motor/blower sold for $6K
After the holidays, I think I'll gut the powerplant and try to find a 12 valve. The conversion is not all that complicated I think.
Use duramax radiator and intercooler in stock front clip. Will use 4L80E with a stand alone control harness which is around $475
Give the 12 valve a good rebuild and decent parts going for longevity and reliability over power. Someone makes engine mounts somewhere. Have Circle-D take that incorrectly built converter back and have them build a triple disc low stall for the cummins. Drop it in and spend the next six months figuring out how to re-pin the wiring harness connectors.
Goal is to make it look like it came with that motor and get the electronics/electrics to function normally.
Thinking a 400hp/900Ft/lb build which isn't that far from stock.
Post by: TexasRedNeck on December 04, 2021, 09:51:22 PM
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Post by: Flyin6 on December 05, 2021, 03:59:51 PM
And 4:11 gears?Sorry, Tex, not trackin' was that a ???
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Post by: TexasRedNeck on December 05, 2021, 11:15:51 PM
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Post by: JR on December 06, 2021, 02:21:38 AM
Post by: Flyin6 on December 06, 2021, 10:42:18 AM
Well I would expect a regear with the Cummins back to 411 to take advantage of the torque.No, sorry
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No more regearing.
4.10's with the stock 32" tires (or something like that) is very close to 37" tires and a 4.56.
32" tire/ 4.10 (Stock) 2261 @ 70mph
37" tire/4.56 2174 @ 70 mph
If money were not a factor, perhaps I would consider, but at the moment, I am looking at rescuing what amounts to a failed project, so planning around a minimum cash infusion, and betting I will get a lifetime of service out of a very efficient/powerful vehicle.
Lots of earlier generation (92-99) burbs have been swapped with remarkable results. Power, smoothness >20mpg figures and towing all in one package.
Post by: JR on December 06, 2021, 11:10:28 AM
Post by: Flyin6 on December 06, 2021, 02:38:19 PM
those are gas numbers, not diesel rpms, but you have od.No, just numbers out of a formula. Doesn't matter what motor, just numbers tossed into a calculator...
And both using a .75 OD ratio
Post by: EL TATE on December 06, 2021, 05:09:12 PM
Well I would expect a regear with the Cummins back to 411 to take advantage of the torque.No, sorry
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No more regearing.
4.10's with the stock 32" tires (or something like that) is very close to 37" tires and a 4.56.
32" tire/ 4.10 (Stock) 2261 @ 70mph
37" tire/4.56 2174 @ 70 mph
If money were not a factor, perhaps I would consider, but at the moment, I am looking at rescuing what amounts to a failed project, so planning around a minimum cash infusion, and betting I will get a lifetime of service out of a very efficient/powerful vehicle.
Lots of earlier generation (92-99) burbs have been swapped with remarkable results. Power, smoothness >20mpg figures and towing all in one package.
I concur. leave it alone with 37's.
Post by: stlaser on December 06, 2021, 10:14:22 PM
Well I would expect a regear with the Cummins back to 411 to take advantage of the torque.No, sorry
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No more regearing.
4.10's with the stock 32" tires (or something like that) is very close to 37" tires and a 4.56.
32" tire/ 4.10 (Stock) 2261 @ 70mph
37" tire/4.56 2174 @ 70 mph
If money were not a factor, perhaps I would consider, but at the moment, I am looking at rescuing what amounts to a failed project, so planning around a minimum cash infusion, and betting I will get a lifetime of service out of a very efficient/powerful vehicle.
Lots of earlier generation (92-99) burbs have been swapped with remarkable results. Power, smoothness >20mpg figures and towing all in one package.
I concur. leave it alone with 37's.
I’ll throw in my 2 cents, it’s free so take it with a grain of salt.
Several concerns with rear axle. First the driver has an admitted heavy right foot. Dura grip carrier isn’t going to love life behind that Cummins torque. Clutches will not last long, just spoke with Tate about this last week with another of my customers truck and it is a built 6.0 LS not a Cummins……
Second, greater than 20mpg with 4.56’s running 37’s. Good luck as it’s going to be spinning more than 2200 rpms unless I’m missing something. That Cummins to get the mpg wants to be cruising in 1700 rpm range.
Lastly to take advantage of the Cummins you’ll need a low stall converter 1300 rpm range so not sure if you mentioned that or what this 4L80 is currently?
Post by: KensAuto on December 07, 2021, 08:45:11 AM
Post by: cj7ox on December 07, 2021, 10:30:52 AM
Post by: JR on December 07, 2021, 11:00:26 AM
At 70 I see about 1900.
Post by: KensAuto on December 07, 2021, 01:03:23 PM
Even the Dmax likes under 2k, or thats what the MPG, EGT and load tell me.1900 EGTs?
At 70 I see about 1900.
Post by: Flyin6 on December 07, 2021, 02:13:28 PM
Let me field some
Duragrip/clutches/cummins: New ground here, I have no clue what may happen or how to fix. I suppose if it goes bad I could move to a Grizzly or similar, but only after I prove the 6BT will work in application.
Note: 90% of the driving will be at 60-85mph so RPMs will almost always be below 1900
I am going to get a very low stall converter, like 1300
Maybe not Circle D since I ordered and was promised a low stall converter and actually received a 2800-3300 RMP stall unit, establishing they do not deliver what they say they will deliver.
Configuration will remain the same. Same suspension, same tires and wheels, same transmission, same 4.56 fdr
One possible change: Upgrade to torsion bars to Duramax truck bars
Post by: JR on December 07, 2021, 02:18:55 PM
On the posi, I have the yukon posi and it works great.
Post by: wyorunner on December 07, 2021, 04:32:42 PM
I know the answer is no, but have you considered having a shop do it so you can just have a running rig in a couple months?
Different note, are you intending on the factory gauges to work or are you going to run standalone? I would think you could easily install the 6BT and run dedicated 4l80e computer instead of reprogramming suburban computer which would result in a drivable suburban in shortish order. Maybe I’m just oversimplifying it though.
Controller like this maybe?
https://www.hgmelectronics.com/4l80e-transmission-controller/
We Have wanted to put one on our power wagon since beginning of build…. Just never done it.
Post by: JR on December 07, 2021, 05:37:10 PM
Post by: stlaser on December 07, 2021, 06:28:54 PM
Shawn he said " Have Circle-D take that incorrectly built converter back and have them build a triple disc low stall for the cummins".
Copy, I was skimming and couldn’t keep my mouth shut on the latest revision.
Post by: Flyin6 on December 07, 2021, 10:15:46 PM
Chief,Something like that T,
I know the answer is no, but have you considered having a shop do it so you can just have a running rig in a couple months?
Different note, are you intending on the factory gauges to work or are you going to run standalone? I would think you could easily install the 6BT and run dedicated 4l80e computer instead of reprogramming suburban computer which would result in a drivable suburban in shortish order. Maybe I’m just oversimplifying it though.
Controller like this maybe?
https://www.hgmelectronics.com/4l80e-transmission-controller/
We Have wanted to put one on our power wagon since beginning of build…. Just never done it.
Stand alone controller
4L80E
3 clutch low stall converter
6BT 400 HP build. I think that uses a stock turbo
Same gears
Have to reset driveshaft lengths
Figure out how to repin harness to take direct readings from 6BT
Use tach adapter from alternator
Use as many stock Ram parts as possible, and stock D-max radiator and intercooler
Dirt simple and easy is what I want
Post by: Nate on December 07, 2021, 10:53:02 PM
Post by: wyorunner on December 07, 2021, 11:49:43 PM
So what your saying is that you will source the parts and then stroke a check to have it done the right way?(https://media0.giphy.com/media/xUA7b7HcF126GuwoiA/giphy.gif)
Yea this is what I want to do! Never gonna happen for us, but I like the idea.
Post by: Flyin6 on December 08, 2021, 07:39:48 PM
So what your saying is that you will source the parts and then stroke a check to have it done the right way?No,
I will do it the right way
No one out there installs a 12 valve into a suburban of this vintage so who would I hire, exactly
The quality of work I see coming out of most shops is terrible.
I do much higher quality work
I am attempting something that has not been done to my knowledge. Earlier generation burbs, there were several, but this series, no and none beyond
No one would know any more than me about this anyway
Just look at the advice I get,
Things like Put an allison in it
Well, the allison would require a stand alone computer to get that to work with a cost of around $3,000
But people think you can just toss an allison in it
I am sidestepping all the nonsense and just going to the most simple setup I can think of. So simple that's its basically just installing parts. The only technologically challenging part will be to pull apart the harness to make it fit with the new engine.
Post by: stlaser on December 08, 2021, 08:49:31 PM
Ken he must be talking about you again…..
:tongue:
Post by: JR on December 08, 2021, 09:51:53 PM
Maybe a turnkey lly/ally setup?
Post by: stlaser on December 09, 2021, 12:13:55 AM
Think only the Ally would be the big hurdle here. Aren't there bolt in kits for the 6BT? Or is that the square body since the front is so short on the classic style.
Maybe a turnkey lly/ally setup?
No, diesel conversion specialists only support up to a 1999 burb with a kit. I did find a couple threads of guys doing this on 2000/2001 units though.
Post by: cj7ox on December 09, 2021, 09:53:11 AM
Post by: rpar86 on December 09, 2021, 10:18:15 AM
If you want simple, Big D, hang a manual behind that Cummins. Then you won't need a 'puter. Just sayin'. :wink:Annnnd we’re back to SquareD. ;)
Post by: JR on December 09, 2021, 10:59:26 AM
Post by: Flyin6 on December 09, 2021, 12:11:05 PM
Think only the Ally would be the big hurdle here. Aren't there bolt in kits for the 6BT? Or is that the square body since the front is so short on the classic style.
Maybe a turnkey lly/ally setup?
Please share!Think only the Ally would be the big hurdle here. Aren't there bolt in kits for the 6BT? Or is that the square body since the front is so short on the classic style.
Maybe a turnkey lly/ally setup?
No, diesel conversion specialists only support up to a 1999 burb with a kit. I did find a couple threads of guys doing this on 2000/2001 units though.
I need all the info I can find. This is going to be a big one for me.
Post by: Flyin6 on December 09, 2021, 12:12:45 PM
If you want simple, Big D, hang a manual behind that Cummins. Then you won't need a 'puter. Just sayin'. :wink:Thought/thinking about it, but it would involve the removal of that handy console and carving up the floor board. Not a fan of either.
Oh, and see ya in a bit more than a week!
Post by: stlaser on December 09, 2021, 12:30:57 PM
Think only the Ally would be the big hurdle here. Aren't there bolt in kits for the 6BT? Or is that the square body since the front is so short on the classic style.
Maybe a turnkey lly/ally setup?Please share!Think only the Ally would be the big hurdle here. Aren't there bolt in kits for the 6BT? Or is that the square body since the front is so short on the classic style.
Maybe a turnkey lly/ally setup?
No, diesel conversion specialists only support up to a 1999 burb with a kit. I did find a couple threads of guys doing this on 2000/2001 units though.
I need all the info I can find. This is going to be a big one for me.
The threads or diesel conversion specialist?
Post by: TexasRedNeck on December 09, 2021, 12:45:58 PM
Still think this makes the most sense. But I also know you are dead set doing it your way. DMax swap is proven, less hacking and piecing things together and will just plain work and be able to be worked on by others in the future should it become necessary. Resale will be much higher with a OEM style swap.
I’ll shut up now. CM
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Post by: JR on December 09, 2021, 01:41:49 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on December 09, 2021, 04:20:53 PM
The actual threads pretty pleaseThink only the Ally would be the big hurdle here. Aren't there bolt in kits for the 6BT? Or is that the square body since the front is so short on the classic style.
Maybe a turnkey lly/ally setup?Please share!Think only the Ally would be the big hurdle here. Aren't there bolt in kits for the 6BT? Or is that the square body since the front is so short on the classic style.
Maybe a turnkey lly/ally setup?
No, diesel conversion specialists only support up to a 1999 burb with a kit. I did find a couple threads of guys doing this on 2000/2001 units though.
I need all the info I can find. This is going to be a big one for me.
The threads or diesel conversion specialist?
Post by: Flyin6 on December 09, 2021, 04:23:53 PM
https://m.facebook.com/duraburbinc/You are correct and spot on with all your points
Still think this makes the most sense. But I also know you are dead set doing it your way. DMax swap is proven, less hacking and piecing things together and will just plain work and be able to be worked on by others in the future should it become necessary. Resale will be much higher with a OEM style swap.
I’ll shut up now. CM
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However
The cost of doing such a conversion is stifling, ridiculous, really
So, although I would probably go that route should money be of no concern, it actually is
So the 6BT 12 valve makes the most sense...Or just sell the vehicle as is. But who would want a fast fuel sucking suburban?
Exactly!
Post by: Nate on December 09, 2021, 04:26:46 PM
https://m.facebook.com/duraburbinc/You are correct and spot on with all your points
Still think this makes the most sense. But I also know you are dead set doing it your way. DMax swap is proven, less hacking and piecing things together and will just plain work and be able to be worked on by others in the future should it become necessary. Resale will be much higher with a OEM style swap.
I’ll shut up now. CM
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However
The cost of doing such a conversion is stifling, ridiculous, really
So, although I would probably go that route should money be of no concern, it actually is
So the 6BT 12 valve makes the most sense...Or just sell the vehicle as is. But who would want a fast fuel sucking suburban?
Exactly!
i may have asked this question already, but CRS is starting to creep in...
have you ever called duraburb and just had conversation with them about conversions? and if they had any info or sources for a DIY'er?
Post by: JR on December 09, 2021, 04:46:21 PM
All you would have to do is the "Don" stuff.
Post by: dave945 on December 09, 2021, 05:06:11 PM
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/442640137436017/?ref=search&referral_code=marketplace_search&referral_story_type=post
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Post by: JR on December 09, 2021, 07:48:36 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on December 09, 2021, 09:29:17 PM
I called them a long time ago. They were no longer doing the 2002 generation conversionshttps://m.facebook.com/duraburbinc/You are correct and spot on with all your points
Still think this makes the most sense. But I also know you are dead set doing it your way. DMax swap is proven, less hacking and piecing things together and will just plain work and be able to be worked on by others in the future should it become necessary. Resale will be much higher with a OEM style swap.
I’ll shut up now. CM
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
However
The cost of doing such a conversion is stifling, ridiculous, really
So, although I would probably go that route should money be of no concern, it actually is
So the 6BT 12 valve makes the most sense...Or just sell the vehicle as is. But who would want a fast fuel sucking suburban?
Exactly!
i may have asked this question already, but CRS is starting to creep in...
have you ever called duraburb and just had conversation with them about conversions? and if they had any info or sources for a DIY'er?
But talk about cost. I'd be $25K-$30K for a nearly stock conversion. Build the trans +$5k. Add new this or that on a well used engine and before long you could find yourself flirting with $50K. Even half that is nuts.
The duramax conversion is priced beyond all measure of common sense. It won't happen
Post by: JR on December 09, 2021, 09:52:26 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on December 10, 2021, 08:55:33 AM
You've already spent that much,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,(fired)Naw, you're not fired for that
I just don't like you anymore ;-))
(Read: Easier to get fired...)
Post by: longball on December 10, 2021, 09:44:40 AM
https://www.gmperformancemotor.com/parts/19370163.html
Factory 6.0, 450hp long block $4636.
With the gearing you’ve got that gets you better than factory performance. It may not be as much power or as good of mileage as you desire but as far as simple goes, this seems to be the winner.
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Post by: KensAuto on December 10, 2021, 02:42:33 PM
Here to make my yearly post before I disappear again. Since simple seems to be the theme here I’d like to throw out one more option I haven’t seen yet.If a supercharged 6.0 won't make him happy, I doubt that will longball.
https://www.gmperformancemotor.com/parts/19370163.html
Factory 6.0, 450hp long block $4636.
With the gearing you’ve got that gets you better than factory performance. It may not be as much power or as good of mileage as you desire but as far as simple goes, this seems to be the winner.
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My recommendation would be to drive it as is, while it still runs. A 12V might give you power and mileage, but long distance trip comfort? (will it even fit around an independent front end without major work?) Not going to be happy imo.
But alas, Big D still has a nice truck that's capable of towing a nice trailer... I heard there's one rotting away on a farm somewhere.
Do I get a severance package?
Post by: Flyin6 on December 10, 2021, 02:44:22 PM
NOHere to make my yearly post before I disappear again. Since simple seems to be the theme here I’d like to throw out one more option I haven’t seen yet.If a supercharged 6.0 won't make him happy, I doubt that will longball.
https://www.gmperformancemotor.com/parts/19370163.html
Factory 6.0, 450hp long block $4636.
With the gearing you’ve got that gets you better than factory performance. It may not be as much power or as good of mileage as you desire but as far as simple goes, this seems to be the winner.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My recommendation would be to drive it as is, while it still runs. A 12V might give you power and mileage, but long distance trip comfort? (will it even fit around an independent front end without major work?) Not going to be happy imo.
But alas, Big D still has a nice truck that's capable of towing a nice trailer... I heard there's one rotting away on a farm somewhere.
Do I get a severance package?
Post by: TexasRedNeck on December 10, 2021, 07:08:09 PM
https://tulsa.craigslist.org/pts/d/claremore-66-lb7-duramax-4x4/7411835220.html
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Post by: longball on December 10, 2021, 07:12:19 PM
I thought it still wasn’t running properly and nobody could figure it out. If it’s running the way it should, just not enough, I retract my previous suggestion. See y’all in 2022 and Merry Christmas!Here to make my yearly post before I disappear again. Since simple seems to be the theme here I’d like to throw out one more option I haven’t seen yet.If a supercharged 6.0 won't make him happy, I doubt that will longball.
https://www.gmperformancemotor.com/parts/19370163.html
Factory 6.0, 450hp long block $4636.
With the gearing you’ve got that gets you better than factory performance. It may not be as much power or as good of mileage as you desire but as far as simple goes, this seems to be the winner.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My recommendation would be to drive it as is, while it still runs. A 12V might give you power and mileage, but long distance trip comfort? (will it even fit around an independent front end without major work?) Not going to be happy imo.
But alas, Big D still has a nice truck that's capable of towing a nice trailer... I heard there's one rotting away on a farm somewhere.
Do I get a severance package?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: KensAuto on December 10, 2021, 07:15:54 PM
Post by: Sammconn on December 11, 2021, 11:57:50 AM
But I got a whole truck with all the everything.
I think all the cluster sizes possibly the same. If not while dash change should fit.
Chevy really hasn’t been that injeneuative over the years.
It’s still here.
If you start leaning this way you know where find me.
Post by: Flyin6 on January 09, 2022, 05:32:28 PM
The D-max swap is looking like the only option other than just canning/selling the project.
We drove it again and it's just not there for me. Uses a lot of fuel and for a supercharged vehicle, not much power. Enough, just not a lot more. And pulling something?? I'm thinking not so much. GM should have just made them all 8.1's and called it a day. Same mileage and 50% less power for the 6.0 is dumb.
And its all 6.0's. I owned a Hummer H2 that limped around getting 10mpg. That 6.0 aluminum Vortec-Max my son drives only gets 11-12. HE is selling it.
I'll say the 6.0 is a good solid motor, but I'll also it gets poor mileage and doesn't make much torque at all. My final analysis is that it is not a good working truck engine at all.
The D-Max, on the other hand is a dream. An always present abundance of power and great mileage. Win-win.
I would not attempt a D-max swap, but in this case with $60K invested into a $15K vehicle there is just too much cash to lose, so I am stuck with getting that truck working.
Pretty sure the gasser route is a bad idea, so that will be coming out if I don't sell it.
Having said that, there is a gentleman who may purchase it, but he doesn't want to pay anything for it, and I am not one to throw that big of an investment away.
Post by: JR on January 09, 2022, 06:29:51 PM
I have seen the LBZ for well under 10k, but normally around 20+. Dsubs for around 20k.
Nothing you have done has been a bad idea, its outcomes that seem to be the challenge.
Post by: stlaser on January 09, 2022, 07:39:26 PM
Post by: Flyin6 on January 10, 2022, 10:18:36 AM
With all that in mind, why not keep looking a for a Dsub or a doner to have someone do the work in the long run. Or just look for an 8.1?JR, Why have someone do the work?
I have seen the LBZ for well under 10k, but normally around 20+. Dsubs for around 20k.
Nothing you have done has been a bad idea, its outcomes that seem to be the challenge.
Well within my capability
Added cost of labor would make that concept impossible
The only way it would work is to strip the gasser components out of the burb
use that vehicle because it is in perfect condition
and has a literal ton of useable parts
Secure a donor vehicle
Recon all the parts coming out of the donor
and do the transplant myself
Do all that over say a year or so to spread out the labor and cost and then
possibly
I could get it done
Problem with all that is time, of course. I am getting (staying busy) with life. Family stuff with all these kids/grandkids takes its toll. I am right in the middle of publishing a new book, and that will lead me toward writing two more to finish this story. I started speaking at churches, giving talks to men's ministries again, this castle Kat built is always falling apart and needing nearly constant attention, I am building a cabin down farmside, I want to get some of that fenced in for a couple of cows, and maybe do a little travelling here and there.
Can I fit it all in? Yea, certainly, but only by shoving something over.
But adding tens of thousands in labor costs to the project is not the way to get it done
Post by: Flyin6 on January 10, 2022, 10:19:10 AM
Sell the burb, cut your losses and build another with the duramax...And get rid of that cool 14 bolt you built for me???
Never!!!
Post by: cj7ox on January 10, 2022, 01:05:26 PM
Post by: JR on January 10, 2022, 02:45:41 PM
Not to rub it in, but there are a few hints alone the way urging the dmax all along. Kinda like the rear end which ended up being a nice solid 10.5.
No OD needed, just go with the cheapest doner you can get. Even the older 5sp ally has an update to 6sp OD.
I think the hardest part will be getting the ally in there, farm out the harness.
For what you have done to the current motor, it should fetch some coin.
Post by: Flyin6 on January 10, 2022, 03:42:04 PM
Have you considered a Gear Vendors over/under drive? Wouldn't help for towing or off road, but would provide an additional overdrive gear for daily driving. That might get your MPG numbers to where you want them.I have...
But I am totally unimpressed with this spindly 6.0 gas motor. Better fitted to a big mower than a real truck. It's a barely adequate motor on its best day
Post by: Flyin6 on January 10, 2022, 03:44:21 PM
Don, I have no doubt it is with your capabilities. Another project, no problem as you KNOW the outcome will really be what you wanted from the start.Roger that to all
Not to rub it in, but there are a few hints alone the way urging the dmax all along. Kinda like the rear end which ended up being a nice solid 10.5.
No OD needed, just go with the cheapest doner you can get. Even the older 5sp ally has an update to 6sp OD.
I think the hardest part will be getting the ally in there, farm out the harness.
For what you have done to the current motor, it should fetch some coin.
Considering it all. For right now my D=max is taking a break. Woke up to a pool of antifreeze under it, so I pulled it in and am tearing it down. I'll post that on the truck thread.
Post by: Flyin6 on January 10, 2022, 09:12:23 PM
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