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Offline JR

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Fired for arresting a non compliant school student!!
« on: October 28, 2015, 04:03:09 PM »
Guess you all know about the SC Deputy who was fired for arresting a girl for not following school rules (using a cell phone in class)

The Deputy was fired today as not "following proper procedure" when he arrested the student who pushed away when he told he to get up and leave.

The SHERIFF was ball less and turned it over to the FBI for investigation.

The Deputy is Ben Fields who even just received awards for his service.

I hope he sues the CRAP out of the Sheriffs office. You do what a cop says and work out the details later, you resist, all bets are off.

I saw nothing wrong with what he did as did several others who were there, even the principal, who called for the officer.
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Offline Dawg25385

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Re: Fired for arresting a non compliant school student!!
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2015, 04:28:13 PM »
No excessive force there? She may have hit him... but damn he threw her around like a rag-doll
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Online Flyin6

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Re: Fired for arresting a non compliant school student!!
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2015, 04:36:38 PM »
With the hate climate found everywhere, how could the deputy have kown she didn't have a weapon of some sort?
And she resisted...not smart...bold really, suggesting people feel cops ought to be restrained.

We need to stand with and for the officer
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Offline Bob Smith

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Re: Fired for arresting a non compliant school student!!
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2015, 05:28:35 PM »
Sorry Don, I can not agree with you or JR on this one. If that action was the only way he felt he could gain control then he needs more training or to be fired. Just because they can flash a badge, it doesn't give them the right to be so out of control. Shoot because a toy gun is displayed, yes. Display out of control feelings because you wear a uniform and or a badge, not so much.

Offline JR

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Re: Fired for arresting a non compliant school student!!
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2015, 05:51:46 PM »
Disagree, fine. I did not see to much force. She resisted and he took her to the floor the easiest way. Easier to control the person and situation, fewer injuries for all.

Weapon or not, he had the right to use "force as necessary" to control the situation after a lawful order was given. She resisted, end of story. There were no injuries and the cop is the bad guy?

The stories I could tell,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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Offline Bob Smith

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Re: Fired for arresting a non compliant school student!!
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2015, 06:00:35 PM »
Yes, in this case and many others I think the cops were the bad guys. A little self control goes a long ways. Stories, I have a few also.

Offline JR

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Re: Fired for arresting a non compliant school student!!
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2015, 06:14:36 PM »
OK, what self control? There is basically 30 seconds of video AFTER the deputy arrived.

I understand (I wasn't there obviously) this had been going on for some time, many warnings given and the girl just kept using her cell phone. Teacher called the principal, principal called the sheriff. Girl didn't care. Lawful order given, next step is hands on,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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Offline Sammconn

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Re: Fired for arresting a non compliant school student!!
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2015, 06:18:55 PM »
Right, wrong, or otherwise, society today has no respect for the law.
I won't comment on this, as I have feelings both ways.

I don't feel he should be fired over this however.
We in Canada have this fear of punching holes in people.
So our police have tasers. And use them.
People get into uproars when something goes bad with the taser.
My comment to them is "the other option is a bullet" you choose.
I just don't want to wind up missing a digit or limb.  I can sometimes get in a hurry to get results.
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Offline JR

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Re: Fired for arresting a non compliant school student!!
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2015, 06:26:51 PM »
We were issued tasers too. I took the ride.
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Offline Dawg25385

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Re: Fired for arresting a non compliant school student!!
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2015, 06:32:51 PM »
I can't help but think that somebody who looks like they could easily whoop my 6' 240 lb butt could have much more easily apprehended this girl, rather that throw her (still in her desk) over backwards, and then tossed her across the floor...

I still support police fervently, and think that the resistance movement is absurd and, but this kind of thing fuels the fire...

That's all.
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Offline Bob Smith

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Re: Fired for arresting a non compliant school student!!
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2015, 06:42:37 PM »
OK, what self control? There is basically 30 seconds of video AFTER the deputy arrived.

Exactly my point.. HE lost it. By golly he showed her who was in charge, don't screw with me attitude at its finest. She was still sitting in the chair, not standing up and in his face, as she went flying across the room. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Offline JR

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Re: Fired for arresting a non compliant school student!!
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2015, 06:55:31 PM »
I see him reach over grabbing her arm and leg, not the throat as reported. He pulled up, the desk followed. He did not allow her to hit the ground when the desk went backwards as he kept his grip. She was swinging at him during this so after he got her out of the desk, he pushed her to an open area of the floor, then cuffed her.

Yes, he showed who is in charge. That is his job and what he is paid to do and why we pay them.

We are not required to backup, retreat but may do so. I did not see him loose it, just control and take charge of the situation.

I heard no yelling or screaming, did you?
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Offline Atkinsmatt

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Re: Fired for arresting a non compliant school student!!
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2015, 07:04:52 PM »
What about individual responsibility? She is responsible for her actions.  She had several opportunities to deescalate the situation.  No. Mama's little, can do nothing wrong, rules don't apply to me, princess had to find the line.  She found it. 

What about parental responsibility?  All of the people that were trying to get her to do the right thing are authority figures in her life.  Why has she not been taught right from wrong and that rules do apply to her and that those in authority are to be obeyed up to the point of being wrong/illegal activity, which I dare say, she is not capable of identifying on her own yet.

Could the Deputy have done something different?  Maybe.  We weren't there to see the entire episode.  Kind of like the ACLU and the NAACP.  Not even his own boss to back him up.  All of these people want him there until they have to back him up.  The school district said before he was fired that he couldn't be a RSO in the school system again.  They put him in that situation when the principle called him.

A 20 mule team couldn't drag me back if I were in a situation like that and didn't get fired.  I wish he was patrolling my AO.
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Offline Bob Smith

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Re: Fired for arresting a non compliant school student!!
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2015, 09:12:34 PM »
I see him reach over grabbing her arm and leg, not the throat as reported. He pulled up, the desk followed. He did not allow her to hit the ground when the desk went backwards as he kept his grip. She was swinging at him during this so after he got her out of the desk, he pushed her to an open area of the floor,

Not sure what you watched, He grabbed her trapping one arm against him and her other arm was swinging around, not sure at him. She did in fact hit the floor back first, and as he firmed up his  grip, she was tossed not pushed.

Online Flyin6

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Re: Fired for arresting a non compliant school student!!
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2015, 09:14:05 PM »
I'm still good with the officers actions.
Do we know he "Threw" her?
My impression was that he grabbed for her and it looked like there was an off balance situation where the chair spun out on those spindly legs.
Then she hit the floor. That part was what should have happened.
I do security at church. If someone tweaked my interest to where I approached them, then acted out of character like her, I'd slam them (He or she) in a new York second.

I'm trained...trained to remove the threat, not to practice being gentle. If you move from the "What's normal for the situation" to "I'm no longer sure what you're doing" mode, then I'm going to take the next step which is going to be physical.

Just too much to risk if you underestimate

On the civil rights violated side, you risk offending someone. However on the security side of that argument, you could be looking at a suicide bomber about to kill everyone. Because there is such madness in our society today, I for one will no longer take the risk. I'd rather have you down with a fracture and just be an angry person, than a bomber or shooter with his hands free.

Overseas. I wouldn't shoot you if you just had a gun and we weren't in an engagement. But if you raise that weapon and break the horizontal plane, then you're gonna get shot in seconds, no argument.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 09:15:59 PM by Flyin6 »
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Offline cudakidd53

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Re: Fired for arresting a non compliant school student!!
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2015, 09:49:40 PM »
I saw the video and can understand both views, but the student was out of line and appropriate action was taken.  Society is out of control and the road we are heading down is chaos and insurrection with CHILDREN that have no morals, sense of boundaries, personal responsibility or respect for authority.

Public outcry over this and the CONSTANT second guessing of the police and other authority figures is undermining so much of this countries foundation that YOU will soon see disorder and inaction in your own community and THEN you will wonder- where are the authorities?

The girl was taken to the ground under control and then the tossed from the chair to be cuffed.  She wasn't struck and she was striking the officer.  Crime committed the second she lashed out and made contact with the officer!  Put it in perspective - on Saturday, a 1000 lb. horse fell on top of me slamming me from his back, onto my side, face and knee into the ground underneath it and I wasn't hurt!

Had  anyone of my generation done similar at school - our teacher had the authority and ability to dole out the smack upside the head or pinning our smart mouthed bodies against the wall while our feet dangled, then the teacher informed us of the entirety of OUR offense.  Then if the school called home, mom and dad would review our offense and REVIEW the error of our ways, while executing the administration of a favorite "intervention" of their own.

I encourage everyone in doubt about the level of depravity of our youth to go volunteer at your local high school and work in the cafeteria for a few weeks and observe the below average student behavior and just how far things have sunk.  There are GREAT kids everywhere, and much hasn't changed, but the basement threshold of acceptable behavior of today, assures that the worst of behavior has become commonplace AND DEFENDED!  :'(
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Offline JR

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Re: Fired for arresting a non compliant school student!!
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2015, 10:03:37 PM »
I am sure we all watched the same videos, several of them out. Yes the chair rolled back and hit the floor, he was was holding her and still in control of her as he should have been. When he got here from the chair, she was still struggling, he pushed her into what appears to be a clear area where he finished the arrest.

Bob, guess we will agree to disagree on this.

As Don said, when you control, you control. Hopefully you don't hurt them but you are in charge. YOU don't get hurt, YOU go home and hopefully you made the public happy.

The Sheriff should have backed him up. If he broke a rule, discipline per the MOU or do an IA. But to fire him without a basic review? Heck you get that when you shoot someone!

Now the entire dept lost all their respect for the Sheriff and KNOW he does not have their backs.

The Sheriff is not appointed and does not fall under the whim of the local powers, he is elected and ONLY answers to the voters.

Listening to the radio today I think we are heading for dark time as things like this get wound up and judge with feelings vs facts. Cops are afraid to do their jobs now and society is going to pay.
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Fired for arresting a non compliant school student!!
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2015, 10:09:33 PM »
I support the cop.  Period.

We must stop coddling these people who defy authority and believe they have a "right" to adjudicate their issues on the spot.

I think he used the minimum necessary force.  If he'd have used a taser on her they'd have squealed to high heaven.

What was he to do?  Ask "please"?  c'mon.  My parents had seen me on TV doing that as a kid in school I'd have been unable to sit for a month.
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: Fired for arresting a non compliant school student!!
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2015, 11:04:38 PM »
I tried to pretend that was my daughter, and how I would feel. But, I can't. My daughters would never act that way, and if they did, I would only hope that someone would step up in the lack of my presence. There has to be respect for authority. Period. I wish the boss would have backed him up. It just makes matters worse that he didn't.
Like someone said above, you don't have to agree with the officers demands, but you should follow them. Sort it out later. Lord knows, I've had issues with a couple leos, but I never encouraged them to "ramp up". My 2 favorite words when I am on the receiving end is "yessir and nossir".
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Offline Bob Smith

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Re: Fired for arresting a non compliant school student!!
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2015, 11:13:48 PM »
I support the cop.  Period.

We must stop coddling these people who defy authority and believe they have a "right" to adjudicate their issues on the spot.

I think he used the minimum necessary force.  If he'd have used a taser on her they'd have squealed to high heaven.

What was he to do?  Ask "please"?  c'mon.  My parents had seen me on TV doing that as a kid in school I'd have been unable to sit for a month.

Well I am glad there were not four cops there or chances are they would have all fed on the moment and been involved in the take down. That does happen more often than not doesn't it. The chair spun out on the spindly legs is not what I saw. He could have taken her into custody while she was sitting in the chair.   I bet on the side of the car he rode in on were the words "to protect and serve". Was she really a threat with a .45, no she was a young lady with a cell phone. Was she wrong, yes she was talking on a cell phone in class. That must be a felony right.  Did he need to use that much force to take control, well most of you think so and I am sorry you feel that way. Maybe if the cops would treat people more as equals instead of a threat, or that cops need to be in control of everything and everyone, these type of events would be far fewer. One way to get into a fight is to act like you are looking for one. What happened to saying calm heads prevail.

Offline JR

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Re: Fired for arresting a non compliant school student!!
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2015, 11:43:54 PM »
As I said, we agree to disagree. More cops would not have changed a thing.

To bad I don't see HC chiming in here.

Glad I am retired with what I see going on, 25 years was enough . JMHO
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Offline Bigdave_185

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Fired for arresting a non compliant school student!!
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2015, 01:38:11 AM »
I watched a youth/teen run from two police officers the other day, bright sunny day right in my neighborhood.  He had walked out of the home willingly, then willingly ran like hell.  He dodged the taser from the chubby officer and got close lined from the second.  He didn't hit the ground( not yet ) the officer caught him tossed him into a 4x4 post/forsale sign and then he took to elbows off the kids face.  A little excessive yes, under the influence of some drugs maybe, maybe why he wasn't receptive to the blows to his head. I don't know for sure.  But I won't lie I giggled a rather large amount.  Why would you run?

I like to think that if you follow the orders given you will get things figured out in a safe manner for all involved. Mr officer has little to no reason to expect much but to protect others and himself.  Once you  are properly contained it will all get sorted out guilty or not guilty.

Right?

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« Last Edit: October 29, 2015, 01:40:46 AM by Bigdave_185 »

Offline Nate

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Re: Fired for arresting a non compliant school student!!
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2015, 10:37:58 AM »
Truthfully, we only know maybe a 1/4 of the real truth, and that is just what we hear from the biased media.  Lets not get to wrapped around the pole.

I look at it like this: just like in the military, we are asked to do a very hard and specific job, and criticized for every step of the process by people that do not have enough intestinal fortitude to even think about what it is that we do.
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Offline JR

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Re: Fired for arresting a non compliant school student!!
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2015, 10:49:03 AM »
You mean it not like "COPs" we see on TV or "Stripes"???

Even though we don't know it all, we know right and wrong and the moral issues of a society is based on.


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Re: Fired for arresting a non compliant school student!!
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2015, 11:10:57 AM »
I watched the videos a few times, his approach seemed very aggressive for a female half his weight, with both her hands clearly visible. His "take down" displayed anger when he tossed her across the floor. Not very professional in my opinion given the context of the situation.

But if his goal was to make sure high school aged young adults have little to no reason to respect a officer of the law, well he met his goal. If his was trying to impress upon full grown adults how we need to rein in our police officers, well he succeeded. If he was trying to make good honest professional LEO's jobs harder, he did a fine job of it.

I have discussed this with many people in our community here, not a single one, LEO's included found this to be acceptable law enforcement in this context.



Offline JR

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Re: Fired for arresting a non compliant school student!!
« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2015, 11:12:31 AM »
To bad we haven't seen the whole incident,,,,,,,,,,,
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Offline Higher Caliber

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Re: Fired for arresting a non compliant school student!!
« Reply #26 on: October 29, 2015, 12:18:43 PM »
I support the cop.  Period.

We must stop coddling these people who defy authority and believe they have a "right" to adjudicate their issues on the spot.

I think he used the minimum necessary force.  If he'd have used a taser on her they'd have squealed to high heaven.

What was he to do?  Ask "please"?  c'mon.  My parents had seen me on TV doing that as a kid in school I'd have been unable to sit for a month.

Well I am glad there were not four cops there or chances are they would have all fed on the moment and been involved in the take down. That does happen more often than not doesn't it. The chair spun out on the spindly legs is not what I saw. He could have taken her into custody while she was sitting in the chair.   I bet on the side of the car he rode in on were the words "to protect and serve". Was she really a threat with a .45, no she was a young lady with a cell phone. Was she wrong, yes she was talking on a cell phone in class. That must be a felony right.  Did he need to use that much force to take control, well most of you think so and I am sorry you feel that way. Maybe if the cops would treat people more as equals instead of a threat, or that cops need to be in control of everything and everyone, these type of events would be far fewer. One way to get into a fight is to act like you are looking for one. What happened to saying calm heads prevail.

If there were four cops there, one could have held the desk so it didn't look so bad, one could have kept the other students away, one could have engaged, and the old fat one could have managed the incident. However there was only one person in the room with the intestinal fortitude to physically engage the little princess knowing every action he took could be and would be picked apart by every tom, dick and harry from the time of call through the rest of eternity.

Are we forgetting sir, that he was called there to perform a service? This service we offer as LEO's is toxic and it's ugly sometimes. IT's not always helping little old lady's cross the street, or plucking kittens out of trees. This was a "no win" scenario for the officer. Using force on kids sucks. period. But when it's necessary it's reasonable. If we examine this from a force continuum stand point, we see at first a passively non-compliant subject. Every force continuum in the world allows it as "objectively reasonable" for an officer to go hands on at this point. Once she started striking him (as seen in the video) the officer has every right to step up his force another notch, but he didn't, he NEVER struck her or used an impact weapon, or taser, or pepper spray... he just handled her. Force scenario's are never pretty, but they aren't judged by how pretty they are.

"young lady" hardly describes this little $#!+ appropriately. "Young ladies" put their cell phone's away before class and respect authority. Nobody claims talking on your cell phone is a felony. But disrupting a class in that state is a misdemeanor and she was under arrest for a misdemeanor, AFTER she had been given EVERY opportunity up to the administration level of the school to comply before the police were even involved. You break a law, you are subject to arrest. period. You resist a lawful order, you are subject to arrest. period. You resist arrest, you are subject to the consequences of your own actions.

more on this later...
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Offline EL TATE

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Re: Fired for arresting a non compliant school student!!
« Reply #27 on: October 29, 2015, 12:40:24 PM »
Bob and Kyle,

Being subject to the same media stream that y'all are I know how bad it looks. On King 5 she was "thrown from her desk". on Kiro 7 she was "body slammed". Grandstanding verbiage used to draw in viewers and generate ratings. This, to me, looks like he lost his temper, which in raising a teenager I can see happening, especially for an extremely disrespectful teenager . Was he within the law, sure. Did he need less force to effect the same results, sure. My mother's entire side of the family is local LEO so I support them wholeheartedly, but even the officer apologized publicly, even after he was fired, so I believe that he knew he was in the wrong.

edit: However, I think he should not have been terminated and that this was an act of compliance to public scrutiny that should not even exist.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2015, 12:43:09 PM by EL TATE »
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Offline Higher Caliber

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Re: Fired for arresting a non compliant school student!!
« Reply #28 on: October 29, 2015, 12:57:25 PM »
Our society is headed down this crappy road of scapegoating responsibility. I know if I don't pay my electric bill I am responsible when the electricity gets shut off. The couple I dealt with earlier today, felt it was the states fault because they should have known where to send their assistance check even though the couple never advised the state they were moving in the first place. I teach my kids that "consequences are chaos". If you do good, you get good. If you screw up, there is no telling what the consequences will be. For this "young lady" it was something she will never forget, but for all the wrong reasons! Now she knows, she can screw off and EVERYONE else is to blame for it. Her and her family will surely receive a generous settlement from the county as well as the school district.

The community asks us to police them, mostly because they can't or are unwilling to police themselves. The way they want us to go about doing it however is absolutely absurd. We are violent, it is what keeps us alive. Our mindset is what allows us to come back for another shift after squeezing a confession of indecent liberties out of a degenerate butt hole. Our mindset and our inherent violent nature is what allows us the fortitude, damn the mmqb'ing, to drive forward into scary $#!+, when everything within us screams at us to turn and run. We are willing to walk past our own children lying bleeding in an elementary school hallway screaming for us, "Daddy help me!", to save yours from some psychopath using kindergartners for target practice. Yet you get to judge us, when it doesn't look pretty. Who the hell would want this job????

You put an individual with the aforementioned attributes into this setting and all of the sudden they start getting hit and slapped, you can damn sure bet, they are going to react swiftly in order to stop that nonsense from happening. That's a reaction to a stimulus plain and simple. I would have done the same thing if she started smacking on me. You ask other officer's that I work with or soldiers I serve with if they play grab ass games with me, they will tell you stories about being folded up in a hallway after trying to play the "touch my gun" game. So what's the difference between us and the bad guys, "if we are supposed to be so violent", I'm often asked. It is that we have a capacity for compassion that is un-paralleled by any other human being.

I don't even need to see the rest of the video to tell you this little princess booked that flight across the classroom with Travelocity. You can probably play those stupid little games with mom, you can probably play them with your teacher, you can probably even play them with your assistant principle, and they will probably all walk away. But when you play them with the police, you are responsible for your arrest. You resist, you are responsible for having forced used against you. You fight back, you are definitely responsible for getting tossed around.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
"Lions mustn't concern themselves with the opinions of sheep"
           
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Offline JR

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Re: Fired for arresting a non compliant school student!!
« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2015, 01:11:28 PM »
Just herd a main stream commentator (cnbc) commend the officer and question the girl actions. She is 18 years old and knew she was being videoed.

Plus are you from home town USA or the city or the burbs. That alone changes your outlook.

The officer appologized because it looked bad and I bet they let him "resign" as part of that.

Scenario:
This all happened in a movie theater and you are there. Is there a diff?
« Last Edit: October 29, 2015, 01:13:23 PM by JR »
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Fired for arresting a non compliant school student!!
« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2015, 08:46:05 PM »
Ever seen a teenager with a knife? 

If that officer walked up on her in condition white its not very far fetched that the girl could have had a knife or other weapon.

Come to Texas.  We don't play.  This cop took down a high school kid.  No apology, no charges.  Just the way it should be

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/video-texas-high-school-grabs-teen-throat-article-1.2392653
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Online Flyin6

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Re: Fired for arresting a non compliant school student!!
« Reply #31 on: October 29, 2015, 08:53:17 PM »
I am definitely 100% behind the officer.

I would like to see the father of that girl publically apologize for his daughter's behavior.

If that were my child, I would have apologized to the deputy and sheriff and disciplined the child myself.
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Offline Bob Smith

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Re: Fired for arresting a non compliant school student!!
« Reply #32 on: October 29, 2015, 09:11:35 PM »
Ever seen a teenager with a knife? 

If that officer walked up on her in condition white its not very far fetched that the girl could have had a knife or other weapon.

Come to Texas.  We don't play.  This cop took down a high school kid.  No apology, no charges.  Just the way it should be

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/video-texas-high-school-grabs-teen-throat-article-1.2392653

Just where would she have been hiding the knife or other weapon, kind of a stretch there RN ? That is just BS. As far as the video you posted, that is something to be really proud of, I bet he feels really good about that.

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Re: Fired for arresting a non compliant school student!!
« Reply #33 on: October 29, 2015, 09:15:13 PM »
Fellas,

I think folks are getting a bit steamed over this, so let's just leave this for awhile if everyone doesn't mind too much.

Everyone here is a valued member and caring equally about all of you, I wouldn't want to see feelings hurt.
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