REAL MAN TRUCKWORKS & SURVIVAL

VEHICLES, CAMPERS, BOATS, and COMMUNICATIONS => Build Threads => Topic started by: Flyin6 on September 02, 2015, 05:48:32 PM

Title: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 02, 2015, 05:48:32 PM
I think with the finishing (almost) of the rear bumper thing-ah-ma-jig, I'll close out that chapter of this ongoing, ever changing build and start up again here.

The focus of this thread will be initially to get the engine running and sorted out. Following that, any transmission work that is required and the development of a "Punch-out" list to getting the truck to an early operational point

I say early, because right after the thing becomes drivable, I'll need to add some leaves to the front springs, then probably install the much longer rear Chevy Silverado springs out back, then get into the side rock rail/armor/step things, and then go on to a number of other projects which this truck will see.

The early "Punch-out" list is looking like this:
1. Fix leak in fuel filler neck
2. Fix main fuel tank vent system
3. Find and fix binding accelerator pedal cable
4. Reroute fuel line to make it easier to prime the Kennedy pumps
5. Purge the fuel system
6. Connect the brake pedal to the master cylinder
7. Top up all fluids
8. Get an initial run in on the engine, then adjust and top up fluids
9. Fab up a belly plate for fuel lines and critical things
10. Build aft bulkhead for snorkel system
11. Build air plenum for snorkel system
12. Figure out how to wire in the over drive to a switch of some sort
13. Plump in the air conditioner condenser, dryer, and lines
14. As wiring is finalized, install sheath over loose wires running all over the place
15. Mount and plumb in the new aux fuel tank
16. Add in front leaves to beef up front springs
17. install new rear springs and flip the shackle
18. Re route exhaust system to clear new configuration
19 Fab new drivers door panel as a weapon/bag mount
20.Build rear hatch/door combo
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cudakidd53 on September 02, 2015, 06:47:18 PM
I think with the finishing (almost) of the rear bumper thing ah-ma-jig, I'll close out that chapter of this ongoing, ever changing build and start up again here.

The focus of this thread will be initially to get the engine running and sorted out. Following that, any transmission work that is required and the development of a "Punch-out" list to getting the truck to an early operational point

I say early, because right after the thing becomes drivable, I'll need to add some leaves to the front springs, then probably install the much longer rear Chevy Silverado springs out back, then get into the side rock rail/armor/step things, and then go on to a number of other projects which this truck will see.

The early "Punch-out" list is looking like this:
1. Fix leak in fuel filler neck
2. Fix main fuel tank vent system
3. Find and fix binding accelerator pedal cable
4. Reroute fuel line to make it easier to prime the Kennedy pumps
5. Purge the fuel system
6. Connect the brake pedal to the master cylinder
7. Top up all fluids
8. Get an initial run in on the engine, then adjust and top up fluids
9. Fab up a belly plate for fuel lines and critical things
10. Build aft bulkhead for snorkel system
11. Build air plenum for snorkel system
12. Figure out how to wire in the over drive to a switch of some sort
13. Plump in the air conditioner condenser, dryer, and lines
14. As wiring is finalized, install sheath over loose wires running all over the place
15. Mount and plumb in the new aux fuel tank
16. Add in front leaves to beef up front springs
17. install new rear springs and flip the shackle
18. Re route exhaust system to clear new configuration
19 Fab new drivers door panel as a weapon/bag mount
20.Build rear hatch/door combo

Remember my dad doing similar with an old style floor light dimmer switch- yes kids, used to have to stomp left corner of driver's side floor to make the lights go bright/dim
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on September 02, 2015, 06:52:44 PM
you can skip #6....
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Sammconn on September 02, 2015, 07:00:44 PM
And #16 may have to be a do over depending on the additional weight of the rock armour and rails.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Nate on September 02, 2015, 09:06:23 PM
this is where I would put the popcorn guy (kyle, whats up with getting a popcorn guy emoji?)!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Sammconn on September 02, 2015, 09:41:09 PM
Yeah, no popcorn guy, and he's hard to find on the phone and make work...
And Nate, I KNOW that you miss him! ::)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on September 03, 2015, 02:17:56 AM
OMG, oh wait it isn't running yet,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Brakes, might help  ;D

Snorkel, what did I miss or does it need another???

Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on September 03, 2015, 07:43:24 AM
Oh cool a new chapter.  :D

Looking at your list it should be running by the weekend.
As was mentioned a dimmer switch makes a fine OD switch of sorts. I use one on my daily driver CTD to switch OD on and off. Which works well unless it's dark, and then I am forever blinding on coming drivers while shifting out of OD at speed LoL

Another clean alternative is to use a button on the end of the shifter stalk. I believe they use a sec gen Dodge shifter handle for such a conversion.

Good luck on your new short list, your in the home stretch and should be about ready to plan your next truck project.



Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: BobbyB on September 03, 2015, 09:37:13 AM
What about an actual everyday switch? You can get them pre-label "OD". I'm sure you can find a place for it relatively easy.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Sammconn on September 03, 2015, 09:41:26 AM
(http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu328/zerosignal/662814-simpsons_homer_eating_popcorn_large.jpg) (http://media.photobucket.com/user/zerosignal/media/662814-simpsons_homer_eating_popcorn_large.jpg.html)

(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/theogrit/1sm213sharepopcorn.gif) (http://media.photobucket.com/user/theogrit/media/1sm213sharepopcorn.gif.html)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on September 03, 2015, 10:27:28 AM
Look what you heathens have done to this brand new thread....shame on you. SHAME on you.

:pokeeveryoneintheface
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 03, 2015, 11:40:48 AM
Oh cool a new chapter.  :D

Looking at your list it should be running by the weekend.
As was mentioned a dimmer switch makes a fine OD switch of sorts. I use one on my daily driver CTD to switch OD on and off. Which works well unless it's dark, and then I am forever blinding on coming drivers while shifting out of OD at speed LoL

Another clean alternative is to use a button on the end of the shifter stalk. I believe they use a sec gen Dodge shifter handle for such a conversion.

Good luck on your new short list, your in the home stretch and should be about ready to plan your next truck project.




Hey Norm,
Considering the fact that I cut out the whole computer and harness, thinking it was the anti lock computer...

Yea...

Well, considering that, how would I wire that? I plan to add a switch to the shifter stalk, maybe get the 2nd gen dodge factory one...

Suggestions?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on September 03, 2015, 12:23:15 PM
There should be two wires leaving your transmission. If my memory serves me correctly one has juice one is a ground. The computer switched the ground to shift in and out of OD. On my old farm truck I just wired the ground (I wanna say it's blue) to a dimmer switch and away we went.

I can crawl under there and look sometime today and verify.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 03, 2015, 12:58:37 PM
There should be two wires leaving your transmission. If my memory serves me correctly one has juice one is a ground. The computer switched the ground to shift in and out of OD. On my old farm truck I just wired the ground (I wanna say it's blue) to a dimmer switch and away we went.

I can crawl under there and look sometime today and verify.
OK, I'll craw for ya and take a pic or two. Might as well get this figured out
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on September 03, 2015, 02:02:51 PM
Don, according to the wiring diagram i just pullled up for a '91, it supposedly has an overdrive module in that year. The switch (momentary?) pulses the module, it then sends signal out through 2 thermo switches and then to computer requesting solenoid activation. Ignition power at the solenoid with computer controlling the ground.
so, Norm had it right.
You can give the Solenoid power, or ground....it doesn't matter. i would ground one leg to the trans case, and run a switched power for the other side.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on September 03, 2015, 02:19:57 PM
Yeah what Ken said I said LOL  I went and looked to be sure just ground something and switch power or ground it will work either way. It's a Dodge it doesn't need no computer n wires n stuff.

BTW yr speedo won't work either, or your AC or yr cruise if so equipped. It also won't charge less it's a early enough 91.5 to have a external regulator... if so it will charge. LoL

Having fun yet?  I have so far found a way to make everything on mine work with no PCM except the cruise. SO yours will be the same steps...no problem

Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on September 03, 2015, 02:53:57 PM
I already warned him about the alternator/a/c stuff when he chopped out the computer!! haha
But then i looked it up and found out that 91 was more primitive than I remembered....he actually has the regulator on the firewall.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 03, 2015, 05:58:44 PM
Don, according to the wiring diagram i just pullled up for a '91, it supposedly has an overdrive module in that year. The switch (momentary?) pulses the module, it then sends signal out through 2 thermo switches and then to computer requesting solenoid activation. Ignition power at the solenoid with computer controlling the ground.
so, Norm had it right.
You can give the Solenoid power, or ground....it doesn't matter. i would ground one leg to the trans case, and run a switched power for the other side.
Ken does that mean I can switch overdrive on in any gear...like making a 7 speed trans out of this thing?
Like 1st, then 1st w/OD, then 2nd w/o OD, then 2nd w/OD...and so forth?
I suspect the OD can only be hydraulically connected from the drive circuit. But it does raise an interesting question.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 03, 2015, 06:01:57 PM
Yeah what Ken said I said LOL  I went and looked to be sure just ground something and switch power or ground it will work either way. It's a Dodge it doesn't need no computer n wires n stuff.

BTW yr speedo won't work either, or your AC or yr cruise if so equipped. It also won't charge less it's a early enough 91.5 to have a external regulator... if so it will charge. LoL

Having fun yet?  I have so far found a way to make everything on mine work with no PCM except the cruise. SO yours will be the same steps...no problem


YEE-OUCH

I might be OK.

It is an 91.5, has the external regulator.

Ya know, when I was ah' choppin on that harness, I was thinking, "Man, this anti-lock has an awful lot of wires!"

As for the AC...I'll wire it from a AA battery and a toggle switch if I have to!

Speedo...I'll use a GPS. If the satellites are out of commission, well civilization will be as well!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on September 03, 2015, 07:04:56 PM
The speedo is a really easy fix, it just requires ya string a wire up to yr dash from the speed sensor, snip a wire in your cluster harness(we know ya have wire cutters) and solder and it will work like new. The AC can be wired to run easily enough but it takes some creative trickery to get it to cycle correctly...really just a older switch, I forget exactly the year required, but it works fine on mine. I probably made notes somewhere....

So really you can probably repair all inoperative systems caused by your ABS delete in a hour or so. The abs computer thingy is behind the glove box BTW.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on September 03, 2015, 07:18:32 PM
His a/c is non-pcm controlled as well....as long as he didn't cut out that wiring, it should still work. lol
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on September 03, 2015, 09:06:06 PM
There is a kit but DIY for OD without any real electronics has been done. I would have to research it but it comes off the valve body when in 3rd gear and uses a pressure switch with a relay. In 3rd gear the pressure raises with speed is how it is supposed to work. You could also have a switch in the OD system so you could arm or disable it as needed.

I have the same tranny and is another reason I am anxious to see how the 46R does, vs going to a 47r for alot more $$$$!!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: ceelibs on September 08, 2015, 06:51:58 AM
There is a kit but DIY for OD without any real electronics has been done. I would have to research it but it comes off the valve body when in 3rd gear and uses a pressure switch with a relay. In 3rd gear the pressure raises with speed is how it is supposed to work. You could also have a switch in the OD system so you could arm or disable it as needed.

I have the same tranny and is another reason I am anxious to see how the 46R does, vs going to a 47r for alot more $$$$!!

is this what your thinking of?

http://www.transmissioncenter.net/SwapInformation.htm
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: ceelibs on September 08, 2015, 06:53:53 AM
There is a kit but DIY for OD without any real electronics has been done. I would have to research it but it comes off the valve body when in 3rd gear and uses a pressure switch with a relay. In 3rd gear the pressure raises with speed is how it is supposed to work. You could also have a switch in the OD system so you could arm or disable it as needed.

I have the same tranny and is another reason I am anxious to see how the 46R does, vs going to a 47r for alot more $$$$!!

is this what your thinking of?

http://www.transmissioncenter.net/SwapInformation.htm
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 08, 2015, 08:50:54 AM
Thanks for that CELIBS

I just read through it. A bit complicated, but makes the OD fully automatic with no electronics. This is the proper answer to my dilemma.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on September 08, 2015, 11:08:32 AM
Yep, but you can do it yourself for much less. Basically just a pressure switch on the 3rd gear port. The pressure rises with speed, so at X rpm you get OD.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on September 08, 2015, 02:43:36 PM
You may be happy with it on pressure switches. But my guess is you won't be. 
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 12, 2015, 10:59:23 AM
Still working on Big-Red/Sarge as it is presently changing from one to the other, however Dan, my welder and fabricator friend sent me a pic of the custom fuel tank he built for Square D

Dan made the water/alchy tank which also acts as a frame stiffener in the back since it's made from .250 aluminum with .500" thick mounting straps.

This tank was measured out to fit just under the bed rails and tie into both the floor and the steel halo on top of the bed. I think it is in the mid 60 gallon size range.

Nice welds!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on September 12, 2015, 11:45:11 AM
That looks sharp. I wish I had a tig...scratch that, I wish I had time to tig.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Wilbur on September 12, 2015, 12:34:31 PM
That tank will be great. I had 56 gallon capacity in a pickup a loooong time ago...it was really great knowing you could plan your fuel stops on your terms (and thus plan to pay what you wanted).
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Sammconn on September 12, 2015, 02:16:08 PM
Nice looking tank! And nice welds!

You planning an auto or manual transfer? Don't remember if it was discussed before. Would be very nice to have that kind of on board supply, and like Norm said plan your stops.
Not to mention in a get out of dodge situation, will drastically improve range.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 12, 2015, 05:42:18 PM
Nice looking tank! And nice welds!

You planning an auto or manual transfer? Don't remember if it was discussed before. Would be very nice to have that kind of on board supply, and like Norm said plan your stops.
Not to mention in a get out of dodge situation, will drastically improve range.

Concur. Dan does some really nice work. His shop is out of this world with capability. Maybe he'll do this sort of thing for others as in a side business someday.

Pickup tube, vent and filler will all be mounted on the top. Since I'll be using a draw straw, will use an electric transfer pump. I'll either run that to the filter feeding the engine as in a true tank #2, or just pump the fuel into the main tank, making this an auxiliary tank. Likely that will be most likely. Right after this thing runs and gets drivable.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Wilbur on September 12, 2015, 05:58:13 PM
Right after this thing runs.....

Um.....Nope, don't do it Will....just leave well enough alone....don't say it....just don't go there.....

 ;)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Sammconn on September 13, 2015, 09:02:14 AM
Right after this thing runs.....

Um.....Nope, don't do it Will....just leave well enough alone....don't say it....just don't go there.....

 ;)

Umm... Yeah. Let's try that, umm.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 14, 2015, 10:21:38 PM
Well, I'm not sure those Interstate batteries are holding a charge. The engine cranks slowly, not normally at all. I had them on a trickle charge for a couple days ever since I pulled them off Dawg's trailer!

And still no prime on the pump, so I'm going to reroute the lines tomorrow to see if I can get some fuel up to the engine.

With two solid failures to complete the task at hand, I decided to do something I knew would work out

The rear bumper liner Raptor stuff is so slick, it's a bit dangerous to stand on. SO I picked up some rubber tread and glued them down
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on September 14, 2015, 11:06:13 PM
well at least you are making an attempt to keep the natives happy....

Don't over look the stair tread tape for the bumper gription, you can even get it in yellow and black for safety

http://www.kofflersales.com/p/anti-slip-abrasive-tape.asp?itemid=3729&gclid=Cj0KEQjw4NmvBRCRp_yu2bzal4YBEiQAWfjpJtHeHD7Py9Z3sp8_a1Qjg7-pZJSxclRDGNLVh5CUqykaAgv88P8HAQ

http://www.amazon.com/3M-Safety-Walk-Outdoor-2-Inch-180-Inch/dp/B0006HVKM4
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Dawg25385 on September 14, 2015, 11:41:05 PM
Well, I'm not sure those Interstate batteries are holding a charge. The engine cranks slowly, not normally at all. I had them on a trickle charge for a couple days ever since I pulled them off Dawg's trailer!

Ha! Nice one

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on September 15, 2015, 06:40:27 AM
Don... slow cranking can also be a ground issue. Pretty common on these trucks. Just a thought...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 15, 2015, 08:48:02 AM
Don... slow cranking can also be a ground issue. Pretty common on these trucks. Just a thought...
I'll check that Norm. I installed several grounds if you recall, but who knows...?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on September 15, 2015, 10:24:14 AM
...bad ground, locked up engine from cobwebs occupying crankshaft journals, etc, etc. :)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 15, 2015, 12:05:58 PM
...bad ground, locked up engine from cobwebs occupying crankshaft journals, etc, etc. :)
Cobwebs...check!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on September 15, 2015, 12:59:14 PM
I have Anvil grounded as follows. Battery to Block, Battery to alt, block to frame. It had a odd issue of slow cranking without the block to frame ground. Not the first one I have had do that.

It could just be a bad starter also....I had 4 bad ones in a row from Napa.. finally rebuilt my original one and on with life.

Just tossing ideas....
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on September 15, 2015, 02:37:37 PM
No, I just think the engine is mad at you Don,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 15, 2015, 07:47:10 PM
I have Anvil grounded as follows. Battery to Block, Battery to alt, block to frame. It had a odd issue of slow cranking without the block to frame ground. Not the first one I have had do that.

It could just be a bad starter also....I had 4 bad ones in a row from Napa.. finally rebuilt my original one and on with life.

Just tossing ideas....

I had the starter rebuilt with good parts by a local well known guy.
I went chasing down cables for awhile. I am grounded main battery thick cable to the block, block to frame, frame to front winch. Frame to rear battery, Frame to bed, frame to cab. I have every switch panel grounded to the frame to a welded on 5/16" bolt.

But the cable to the engine block may have paint under it...haven't pulled that one yet
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 15, 2015, 07:50:26 PM
Well, I was all over the truck working off the punch-out list items. I pulled and checked the filler hose to the fuel tank and all of that was in correctly, but I have a nasty leak at the filler neck, so that will have to be re-done.

Look at the mess:
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 15, 2015, 07:53:16 PM
First thing tomorrow before going any further is a massive cleanup of both the garage and the truck. Think I'll give it it's first ever bath

I pulled the dual Kennedy pump setup and rerouted the fuel line. Got to take a diesel bath while doing it...Fun (NOT)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 15, 2015, 07:55:01 PM
This time I mounted it 1.5" lower than before and on poly shock bushings to act as a cushion and insulator. There is some movement in the thing now and it is definitely pumping fuel
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 15, 2015, 07:56:53 PM
That will get a skid plate fabbed up when I do the side armor. For now the fuel line is tucked safely away
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 15, 2015, 08:01:01 PM
The reason I know it's moving fuel is that I have a couple of leaks up near the engine. Fuel is running down the main supply line, but oddly enough is not wet at the fitting.

So no clue about what's going on with that, have to wait till tomorrow.

I need to find a primmer on bleeding the entire fuel system, injectors and all. After I get the leak pinned down, I'll bleed the injectors

So that was it for today for Square D
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on September 15, 2015, 08:41:27 PM
(http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/party/surprise-party-smiley-emoticon.gif) (http://www.sherv.net/)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Sammconn on September 15, 2015, 09:51:30 PM
(http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/party/surprise-party-smiley-emoticon.gif) (http://www.sherv.net/)
x 2!
It looks like we're getting closer!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on September 15, 2015, 10:06:52 PM
slowly but surely!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on September 15, 2015, 11:15:38 PM
Bleeding it properly requires it to spin over at normal cranking speed. Normally one would bleed air before the injection pump..since you have a electric pump...this part is simple (open line into a bucket with the pump on works) then reconnect the line and if still using the oem filter just crack the bleed screw there. Let it sit 15 min crack it again with the pumps on. Then I usually bleed the fuel line that feeds the pump right at the pump... again pumps on, crack the line, wait for it to spray all fuel, and yr golden.

I then will crack injectors #1,3,6 one turn or so of the nut, and this is where you need to crank the engine. Spin it tell no air comes out, tighten the injectors *17mm and try to start.

repeat if required...but usually doing three will get it lit up.

Wouldn't hurt to make sure you have oil pressure at some point before actually trying to start it. Cummisn can be slow to prime the oil pumps, so don't freak if ya do not have immediate pressure when cranking. But when it starts glue yr eye to the gauge tell it registers.

Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 16, 2015, 09:49:34 AM
Thanks Koo-T
will get that done today
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on September 16, 2015, 11:06:46 PM
That is a lot of bleeding. She's gonna make you work to get her going

I remember learning to never run a diesel out of fuel. Just so much work to get it going again, much less a new motor (done a couple V8, V12 Detroits, big kittys and a cummins or 2)

We used low pressure compressed air from the tank on up and made a big mess!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 17, 2015, 10:03:23 AM
Lot of work indeed

I didn't realize how messy I had gotten the truck and the shop. Yesterday, I spent 11 hours in there cleaning up everything. Didn't get to all the shelves, but washed the truck. put things up. Filled up two large trash cans with stuff, moved out hundreds of pounds of scrap steel, and scrubbed the floors.

Now I am ready to get in and all over this truck without swimming in oils and fuel puddles
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on September 17, 2015, 10:27:39 AM
Looking spiffy.... I need to take a day and do the same to my barn...er shop/whatever it is. Especially after the law chair fire yesterday while sharpening mower blades.

Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 17, 2015, 11:37:59 AM
Looking spiffy.... I need to take a day and do the same to my barn...er shop/whatever it is. Especially after the law chair fire yesterday while sharpening mower blades.


Normally, I just burn up the clothes I'm wearing when grinding on stuff

Lost the chair, anything else?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Nate on September 17, 2015, 01:09:25 PM
Looking spiffy.... I need to take a day and do the same to my barn...er shop/whatever it is. Especially after the law chair fire yesterday while sharpening mower blades.

that sounds like a story there...........?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on September 17, 2015, 01:43:40 PM
Had a few of those little fires, kinda reminds you.

My garage is worse than that. Spent several hours yesterday upstairs where the boys had been playing. They got into everything!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on September 17, 2015, 05:11:24 PM
Nah no real story... I finished the last blade, went to leave the shop and noticed one lawn chair engulfed in flames. I punted it out the open door and went and mowed. My wife put "1 lawn chair" on the shopping list because she thinks she's funny LoL

Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: EL TATE on September 17, 2015, 06:59:19 PM
Sorry Kooter, I just laughed out loud so I think she's funny too.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Nate on September 17, 2015, 07:00:40 PM
"lawn chair" I get it now, I thought you said law chair....sorry
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on September 17, 2015, 08:35:05 PM
Don, the garage looks inspection ready!  Just makes you feel better when things are all squared away.

You are ready to get down to business.

Where is my popcorn emoticon.....
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 17, 2015, 11:30:35 PM
Don, the garage looks inspection ready!  Just makes you feel better when things are all squared away.

You are ready to get down to business.

Where is my popcorn emoticon.....
Yep, ready
Smoked my bad knee yesterday and took it easy today.
Tomorrow I'll finish painting the track loader, and Saturday is a farm werkin day
Maybe Sunday afternoon to get the ground wire sorted and start to bleed the thing.
I just hope it starts and I don't have some awful problem.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Nate on September 17, 2015, 11:41:52 PM
have you contacted the engine builder to come and assist with the starting?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 20, 2015, 11:26:34 PM
Put some cool decals I had laying around on the square one. Wife says the truck now looks like a hillbilly owns it!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cudakidd53 on September 21, 2015, 07:11:31 AM
Put some cool decals I had laying around on the square one. Wife says the truck now looks like a hillbilly owns it!

Mission accomplished........... ;)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 21, 2015, 10:01:48 PM
OK JR, here you are:
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 21, 2015, 10:03:18 PM
After cleaning this single ground, the truck cranked much better
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 21, 2015, 10:04:32 PM
With the fuel pumps on, I cracked this fitting and bled the air out, up to this point
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 21, 2015, 10:08:15 PM
Next, I loosened all 6 injector lines and cranked the motor for maybe 15-20 seconds. I could see some fuel spraying and splashing about, so I retightened the lines.

Then with the camera rolling I cranked it and it started immediately

Oil pressure came right up and after a bit of rough idling it settled out to a smooth rhythm.

However, there is something amiss. It will not rev up at all and sputters and belches white smoke and I can actually open the throttle and kill the motor!

Well, I'll figure this out like everything else, but at least it started!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on September 21, 2015, 10:21:18 PM
Congratulations !!


Just sounds like air in the system.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cudakidd53 on September 21, 2015, 11:08:55 PM
Wow, smoke and noise (can't see video till tomorrow at work) it's awesome to see all the hard work coming together!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on September 21, 2015, 11:33:35 PM
OK JR, here you are:
OMG
[/size]

Congrads!!!! and we have it on video

Even a slight glimpse of the man himself through the window and smoke  8)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on September 21, 2015, 11:46:34 PM
Yikes!  Lions have lain down with lambs....

Hell hath frozen over

Pigs are flying


Time to change the sig.....

Congrats Big D - two births this week
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Higher Caliber on September 22, 2015, 03:15:44 AM
I teared up... just a little... but I did tear up... don't tell anyone
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cruizng on September 22, 2015, 08:20:07 AM
Congrats Don!! Quite the milestone.  :)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on September 22, 2015, 08:43:28 AM
Awesome news. I'd bleed the injectors again Don....you could be driving it soon.

Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Atkinsmatt on September 22, 2015, 08:45:16 AM
Great work.  Wonder what we all are going to bug you about now.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on September 22, 2015, 09:22:34 AM
Kinda reminds me of the 80s show, The A Team.

I love it when a plan comes together

(http://www.nbc.com/sites/nbcunbc/files/files/NBC-The-A-Team-Keyart.jpg)

Don as Hannibal, Ken as "Face", Tate as Murdock, and I'm not sure about BA, that would probably fall to HigherCaliber(Blaine) or Nate
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Tommy13 on September 22, 2015, 09:39:58 AM
Congrats Don!  Amazing work as always.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Dawg25385 on September 22, 2015, 10:35:59 AM
It's Alive!!!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cudakidd53 on September 22, 2015, 11:50:18 AM
It's twuu, it's twuu!

(Madeline Conn in Blazing Saddles)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Wilbur on September 22, 2015, 11:54:28 AM
nice job! I am guessing the power issue is an easy fix but whatdoIknow?  :o

haha cudakid and dawg!!!!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on September 22, 2015, 12:25:25 PM
<iframe src="//giphy.com/embed/MUeQeEQaDCjE4" width="480" height="264" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="http://giphy.com/gifs/waynes-world-wayne-campbell-MUeQeEQaDCjE4">via GIPHY</a></p>
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Tedram on September 22, 2015, 01:01:13 PM
NICE!!!!!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on September 22, 2015, 01:29:17 PM
...However, there is something amiss. It will not rev up at all and sputters and belches white smoke and I can actually open the throttle and kill the motor!

It just occured to me...I bet you forgot to tell Dwayne to use a 2x4 instead of his hand. Remove him from the intake and she'll rev up !!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: EL TATE on September 22, 2015, 02:04:45 PM
I'll take Murdock! Nice work on the Mel Brooks references there boys. I didn't get any video though, just stills?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: rpar86 on September 22, 2015, 03:41:01 PM
Tate, the video link/download is up in reply #68.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Nate on September 22, 2015, 05:38:00 PM
Kinda reminds me of the 80s show, The A Team.

I love it when a plan comes together

(http://www.nbc.com/sites/nbcunbc/files/files/NBC-The-A-Team-Keyart.jpg)

Don as Hannibal, Ken as "Face", Tate as Murdock, and I'm not sure about BA, that would probably fall to HigherCaliber(Blaine) or Nate

#facepalm
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 22, 2015, 06:06:25 PM
OK JR, here you are:
OMG
[/size]

Congrads!!!! and we have it on video

Even a slight glimpse of the man himself through the window and smoke  8)
I was asphyxiated byy all the smoke and died quietly a bit later!

Being Special hops, I reconstituted later in the evening and am back FMC!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 22, 2015, 06:12:18 PM
Holy Smokes, what a response!
It's only a smoky old diesel!

Yea, Koo-T, I'll re-bleed the injectors tomorrow. Worked all day on "Sarge", but have that thing mostly done now. Have to sort out that motor and trans in square D now...

Well, I was getting concerned that I might have created some anxiety issues across the north American continent, so I'm glad you boys are feeling relieved!

HC, that was huge...you showin' emotion! What did your wife think? ;-)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Nate on September 22, 2015, 06:18:13 PM
there was no pic don, so I think HC is in the clear...............;D
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 22, 2015, 06:29:12 PM
there was no pic don, so I think HC is in the clear...............;D
Big man to admit it never the less!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on September 22, 2015, 08:24:50 PM
Kinda reminds me of the 80s show, The A Team.

I love it when a plan comes together

(http://www.nbc.com/sites/nbcunbc/files/files/NBC-The-A-Team-Keyart.jpg)

Don as Hannibal, Ken as "Face", Tate as Murdock, and I'm not sure about BA, that would probably fall to HigherCaliber(Blaine) or Nate

#facepalm

Tell me Don doesnt resemble Hannibal??  I know you're old enough to remember that show.  Hell it was probably based on some of Don's antics.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Nate on September 22, 2015, 09:37:25 PM
Oh yeah i was an a team fan, and yeah he does resemble Hannibal.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cudakidd53 on September 22, 2015, 10:25:25 PM
"I pity da fool, who don't know them some A-Team references".......and Flatlander and I remember when Mr. T bought a Mansion near our growing up spots, huge wooded lot which he went all lumber jack on and CLEAR CUT it because he had allergies!  Oh how the swells howled in his neighborhood!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 22, 2015, 10:26:24 PM
Oh yeah i was an a team fan, and yeah he does resemble Hannibal.
I think I'm more of a Robert Redford/Ronald Regan look alike
No, I haven't been using street pharmaceuticals!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cudakidd53 on September 22, 2015, 10:32:23 PM
Oh yeah i was an a team fan, and yeah he does resemble Hannibal.
I think I'm more of a Robert Redford/Ronald Regan look alike
No, I haven't been using street pharmaceuticals!

Check the kids bedrooms, I think they switched you mirror with one from the fun house!  You get your normal one back and Hannibal will be winking at you, minus one cigar!.......Redford -LOL
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on September 22, 2015, 10:40:35 PM
...Regan...phsst.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: akraven on September 23, 2015, 01:24:23 AM
Congrats on getting it running Don!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on September 23, 2015, 07:16:45 AM
Oh yeah i was an a team fan, and yeah he does resemble Hannibal.
I think I'm more of a Robert Redford/Ronald Regan look alike
No, I haven't been using street pharmaceuticals!

Remember God in Your Youth

12 Remember also your Creator in the days of your youth, before the evil days come and the years draw near when you will say, ?I have no delight in them?; 2 before the sun and the light, the moon and the stars are darkened, and clouds return after the rain; 3 in the day that the watchmen of the house tremble, and mighty men stoop, the grinding ones stand idle because they are few, and those who look through windows grow dim;

He's referencing what happends when you grow old Don. Your vision is already suffering......
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 23, 2015, 11:34:19 AM
Hmmm...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 23, 2015, 11:34:39 AM
Congrats on getting it running Don!
Thanks Raven
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on September 23, 2015, 05:27:07 PM
Hmmm...

Look at the bright side, you still have all your teeth and thats a major accomplishment in KY....
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 23, 2015, 05:49:40 PM
Hmmm...

Look at the bright side, you still have all your teeth and thats a major accomplishment in KY....
True.

The word "Teeth" is actually not often used here!

For some reason we prefer the word "Tooth"
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 23, 2015, 05:50:26 PM
So I started it up a bit ago to see if anything changed, and it did!

Now it won't stay idling!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on September 23, 2015, 05:55:13 PM
Birthing pains, Don.  Did you try bleeding the injectors again?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 23, 2015, 06:13:35 PM
Birthing pains, Don.  Did you try bleeding the injectors again?
No, was just hoping it would magically heal itself

Now where was that 3/4" crows foot???
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Sammconn on September 23, 2015, 09:48:09 PM
Wow, it runs. Yeah I'm a little late to the party.
Sarge is looking good too!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on September 25, 2015, 08:07:22 AM
Couple of questions....

Has this engine been run since the rebuild? If not, does it have a new camshaft/lifters? If yes then you need to get it going and break that cam in. It's a flat tappet, likes lots of zinc in the oil and well you know.

To bleed, it's best with two people. Start with the front injector, bump the thing over with it cracked until you get a no bubbles stream of fuel (like bleeding brakes) Then do the next one, and continue this with all of them. If you get lucky somewhere around 4 or 5 it will start running. It "should" clean it's self up and self bleed the rest through the return line. If it does not....I'd start to suspect air entering the system before the injector pump...(easy to check for) Or it's possible the pump Timi is off considerably.

Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on September 25, 2015, 10:24:59 AM
I was thinking it might be sucking air pre-electric pumps. The way it started, then progressively got worse until it died led me to that thought.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cudakidd53 on September 25, 2015, 12:04:30 PM
Nice thing about Diesel, it's either air, fuel or compression..........or, air in the fuel, or no fuel in the compression, or too much fuel in the air......or red dog's hair preventing air into the intake.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 25, 2015, 01:52:32 PM
I think I found something that might be wrong

I placed the fuel filter upstream of the two kennedy pumps. So the fuel filter is seeing about 8psi pressure all the time.

I routed the injector return line to the other inlet port of the fuel filter. That means the injector return line is actually pressurized, and I don't think that is supposed to see pressure at all.

So, I'm going to reroute the injector return line back to the fuel tank, re-bleed, then do another start

And Cam? Old stocker, well broken in...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on September 25, 2015, 02:32:48 PM
Yep, that could be an issue but 8 psi sounds good.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on September 25, 2015, 05:18:51 PM
If you have pressure against your return line then that is likely your issue. Simple enough fix should have you up and running.  Now for the bad news....... 8psi is entirely too little fuel pressure. That Injection pump needs about 12psi minimal, some say 18psi.... That will make 180hp-220hp or so. We run our P7100 engines at 25psi under load. Which equates to about 30psi at idle or close. Either your pumps are undersized, or possibly the regulator for the fuel on the back of the injection pump is stuck. You should be seeing 12-18psi at idle at the pump on a P pump engine. That will provide stock HP or a smidgen more. Hope this gives you some direction in which to search for the issue.



Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on September 25, 2015, 05:52:24 PM
Norm knows some stuff, it appears. It makes sense..... Don took off the manual pump right?...ICR... Yeah, i could see the manual putting out the higher psi than those kennedies. They are only rated at like 4 psi each. IIRC the manual pump is good for 25-30 when new.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on September 25, 2015, 06:02:55 PM
one more thing that may or may not be relevant. I once had a P pump irrigation motor that we couldn't get to run much above idle. It acted like it had air all the time. What had happened was the spring in the lift pump had broken resulting in about 6psi.

Anyway in the end, if those pumps can only do 8psi your going to have to rethink the fuel pump issue. FASS Air Dog and all those have made a pretty buck on the P Pumps need for mass amounts of high pressure fuel volume.

Depending how that pump is tuned, you may need more than a OEM lift pump can produce even.



Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on September 25, 2015, 06:11:15 PM
I just found this. He took the newer higher volumn lift pump off because the lines were only 5/16 (unless he put it back on later)

http://real-man-truckworks-and-survival.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=458.0;attach=13512;image
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on September 25, 2015, 07:12:25 PM
Where's my popcorn emoji.  I'm learning so much


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Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Dawg25385 on September 25, 2015, 07:20:43 PM
You guys and your emoji's...... I'm workin on it!


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Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 25, 2015, 07:50:32 PM
OK, I think we are on it

I thought the 8psi would be sufficient, guess not

Dang it...a real pump is going to cost some money.

Sounds like I need to reroute the return line like I mentioned, into the fuel filler neck, then plumb in a Fass or AD high pressure lift pump.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on September 25, 2015, 09:10:21 PM
This unit has some good reviews from folks. http://www.wvodesigns.com/raw-power-wvo-fuel-pump-adjustable-regulator.html (http://www.wvodesigns.com/raw-power-wvo-fuel-pump-adjustable-regulator.html) The hazard of electric pumps is reliability issues in my opinion. FASS and similar units are not IMHO all that reliable, especially at higher pressures.

The issue with P Pumps is at HP levels up around 500 or higher they need a LOT of fuel system. Most guys shoot for 40psi under load. Most electric pumps including the spendy popular stuff get very hot at those levels.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 25, 2015, 10:39:19 PM
This unit has some good reviews from folks. http://www.wvodesigns.com/raw-power-wvo-fuel-pump-adjustable-regulator.html (http://www.wvodesigns.com/raw-power-wvo-fuel-pump-adjustable-regulator.html) The hazard of electric pumps is reliability issues in my opinion. FASS and similar units are not IMHO all that reliable, especially at higher pressures.

The issue with P Pumps is at HP levels up around 500 or higher they need a LOT of fuel system. Most guys shoot for 40psi under load. Most electric pumps including the spendy popular stuff get very hot at those levels.

The Air Dog in my Duramax has failed me several times now, and once started leaking somewhere near the farm. On the drive home I lost maybe a 1/4 of my 57 gallon tank leaking away.

I think the Air Dogs are junk now as many times as I have torn mine down...Now I actually keep an extra motor for it on the shelf!

Pitiful...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on September 26, 2015, 08:13:59 AM
I have two and have had no issues. Knock wood. Other than the fass Class 8 stuff is there another alternative?


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Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on September 26, 2015, 01:25:54 PM
Well, there is Fass, PPE, BD and Fuel lab.

Kennedy only has his pumps from the website, so he may be no help. To bad as I'm sure if you discussed your motor with him and the dual 8psi setup should have been fine.

Now I am learning to since I knew the 6BT needed a good lift, but I did not know it needed a hp unit for 400hp.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 26, 2015, 07:08:43 PM
I'm all novice here with the 6BT world. I never imagined I'd need 40-60psi for a 12 valve motor. I knew the VE pumps were cooled only by fuel, so a good flow rate was essential for pump longevity. The Bosch inline P7100 pump I have on Square D is cooled by engine oil, so I was thinking in and around 12-15psi. More about a supply issue than a pressure thing me thought.

Bottom line is I have wired this fuel system up wrong. I have too little pressure to feed my mill and the Kennedy pumps will never get the job done, so they will probably get plumbed into the D-Max system as a second and third backup.

I'll probably purchase the veggie oil pump Norm suggested and tune the motor with that starting around 40 psi and work the 40-65psi range.

The turbo guys said this motor of mine would be in the 600HP range with the turbo and injectors, but never mentioned what pressure the motor required. That is a $500 learning curve right there! Ouch!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on September 26, 2015, 07:29:11 PM
Surprised that was not in the formula if that important.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on September 27, 2015, 01:04:59 AM
Learnin some stuff myself, except it's not costing me anything. I vaguely remember testing pressure on one with a no start, but that was a few years back.
Title: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: husker77c on September 27, 2015, 07:39:54 AM
Have you thought about going back to a stock lift pump with an electric inline pusher?   Seems to be a viable option for where your engine sits power wise.    Did you block off the stock pump?  I don't remember the specifics of your engine build.   I've read on some competition diesel sites that people have run the stock lift pump up to 585hp.   I don't think I would run it that high without some help though.   That's like people getting 450hp out of the stock HX35.  It can be done.....once or twice for a dyno run.


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Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 27, 2015, 09:03:33 AM
Have you thought about going back to a stock lift pump with an electric inline pusher?   Seems to be a viable option for where your engine sits power wise.    Did you block off the stock pump?  I don't remember the specifics of your engine build.   I've read on some competition diesel sites that people have run the stock lift pump up to 585hp.   I don't think I would run it that high without some help though.   That's like people getting 450hp out of the stock HX35.  It can be done.....once or twice for a dyno run.


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I do have the stocker, brand new in fact

But with that tiny 5/16" outlet it looks more suited to my DR-650 motorcycle!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: ceelibs on September 28, 2015, 06:56:44 AM
Have you thought about going back to a stock lift pump with an electric inline pusher?   Seems to be a viable option for where your engine sits power wise.    Did you block off the stock pump?  I don't remember the specifics of your engine build.   I've read on some competition diesel sites that people have run the stock lift pump up to 585hp.   I don't think I would run it that high without some help though.   That's like people getting 450hp out of the stock HX35.  It can be done.....once or twice for a dyno run.


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I do have the stocker, brand new in fact

But with that tiny 5/16" outlet it looks more suited to my DR-650 motorcycle!
there are tons of trucks running around making great power with only the mechanical lift pump, and its simple as a rock. IMHO I wouldnt bother with any electric pump, esp with Square D being a critical use vehicle....two pennies and all.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on September 28, 2015, 07:05:37 AM
Ceelibs, very valid point.  Also Don, it may be a matter or pressure over flow.  A smaller diameter outlet (the 5/16 on the stocker) will build more pressure in the same pump with a larger outlet.  The flow is probably more than adequate.  It needs pressure.  Then again, I'm talking concept.  I know nothing of cummins.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cudakidd53 on September 28, 2015, 07:09:52 AM
Have you thought about going back to a stock lift pump with an electric inline pusher?   Seems to be a viable option for where your engine sits power wise.    Did you block off the stock pump?  I don't remember the specifics of your engine build.   I've read on some competition diesel sites that people have run the stock lift pump up to 585hp.   I don't think I would run it that high without some help though.   That's like people getting 450hp out of the stock HX35.  It can be done.....once or twice for a dyno run.


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I do have the stocker, brand new in fact

But with that tiny 5/16" outlet it looks more suited to my DR-650 motorcycle!

Couldn't that be why is it so small, to maintain the higher pressure required to maintain the appropriate spray pattern of the injectors?  A bigger line allows more volume but actually lowers pressure correct?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 28, 2015, 08:47:46 AM
Remember, we are talking about a lift pump. It is only a device to get the fuel up to the injection pump. The Bosch then crushes the fuel into the higher pressures.

Although I don't have a command of the math of all this, an injection pump starting with a head of 8psi would certainly produce less pressure at the nozzle than a head pressure of 40 psi.

OK, I'll figure out how to get the stock pump (Mechanical) installed and go from there. That and get the return line re-routed.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on September 28, 2015, 01:33:13 PM
Don.... before you go much further let me give you some considerations.

A stock 2nd Gen fuel delivery system flowed about .58GPM in actual best case scenarios. I won't get into Math other than to say this is a real life situation that math can over complicate. Let me explain what I mean....

A fuel delivery system and a hydraulic system use the same basic rules of math/function. What this equates to is if you wanted to make 650HP continuous you would need via math a 3/4" supply line to your injection pump with a flow speed of about 2FT per second, @ 50psi.  This is assuming your spinning the engine at 4000rpm. I just did the math...

It's accepted and known reality that a flow speed of between 2-4 feet per second is ideal. The variable of 2-4 derives from planned  application. A fuel system designed to work in cold temperatures wants a slower fluid velocity than one that will always be a in a warm climate.

To build a system that could supply 650hp continuously is impractical. The required 3/4 feed line when computed out in reality becomes more in line with 1 1/4" ID needed. This will allow you to allow for loss due to bends and fittings. The pressure requirements would be near or above 50psi, and even then you will need to also address the flow requirements past the injection pump.

But more reality. Your truck can't make 650hp for more than 10-15seconds at best, that's fact. I'd actually be surprised if it could make it that long, if at all. Making 650hp on a dyno for a few seconds and actual use, are two way different realities. And this brings me to the reality of real life fluid design system requirements.

People have made 600hp with 5/16 fuel lines in Cummins trucks on stock lift pumps on a Dyno. That same truck wouldn't likely make a drag strip pass with similar happy results. Let me give you an example...a slightly different but yet similar application.

My wife's Ramcharger: It runs a 3/8 feed line. I built the system to minimize restriction as much as possible. The tank pickup was modified to be 3/8 with a OEM style steel pickup tube in a "trap" The entire system is steel tubing. All fittings are high flow Hydraulic fittings. This feeds into a 2Gen piston lift pump set at 15psi with a 3/8" inlet and discharge fittings. This then feeds the OEM fuel filter (minus the heater) that has modified inlet/outlet passages, and from there goes to the injection pump with a high-flow fitting again in 3/8.  As built and tested at 2500rpm it flows 1.28GPM with a flow velocity of 4.2 ft per second (little too fast actually) It can and does run at about 15psi. At 4000rpm it drops to .62GPM max flow.

How does this system work in reality: I can hold wide open throttle through the 1/4 mile with a drop in fuel pressure down to about 7psi and falling. Pyro temps are right at 1380Degrees at the end of the 1/4 so realistically all done and said...it's a well executed system. I have enough fuel to run wide open as long as one dares in reality. How much power does it make? Well not sure...I don't care. It's at it's limits for cooling the charge air anyway. I would never run a smaller turbo on it as presently tuned, I'd not run a larger one for drive ability reasons, and in the end it's designed to do exactly what it does.

How does this compare to your truck? You have more weight, less gear, a similar sized turbo actually, and less air cooling capacity. In other words your truck will not go wide open for a 1/4 mile most likely. So to put an end to this over complication, consider your situation for reality.

You need enough fuel to feed your monster for under 15 seconds at WOT> I'd wager a 1/2 supply line, your Kennedy pumps pushing and filling a filter, and then a OEM 2nd Gen Cummins mechanical lift pump feeding your injection pump will manage that just fine. Your going to exceed safe EGT's before you suck that system dry I'd wager. If your pump is actually set at those HP levels... your going to exceed safe EGT's before you get out of sec gear.



Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on September 28, 2015, 02:38:49 PM
Oofff. Norm made my head hurt.

Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: rpar86 on September 28, 2015, 02:46:06 PM
To add to what Norm said... (going into physics mode here...).  Reading this Wikipedia article will make your head hurt even more Ken.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli's_principle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli's_principle)

This is Bernoulli's principle: As the speed of fluid increases, the pressure decreases. Too much speed (like Norm mentioned 4.2ft/sec) will lower the pressure. So the smaller line will result in more pressure from the lift pump to the injection pump. Of course Don knows all about Bernoulli and how lift is generated by an airfoil :)




I'm not a physics expert, so please excuse me if I said something incorrect. I just remember reading about this when designing an irrigation system at the last house :)

Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on September 28, 2015, 07:27:13 PM
Trust me I am no physics expert either. I am just largely a simple minded farmer. 
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Wilbur on September 28, 2015, 07:28:19 PM
Um......so whatcher sayin' is ya need a *bleep*load a fuel delivered at a *bleep*load of pressure....but if ya suck too much ya need more pressure 'cause the *bleep*load of pressure becomes a small amount of pressure. Is that it?

I think I are an engineer....ha!

I have to say thanks to everyone as I am learning a *bleep*load in this discussion.... ;)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on September 28, 2015, 07:41:18 PM
Further thought maybe to clarify... in the example of my wife's truck above I could do the following. A larger feed line say 1/2," a remote filter purely for it's usefulness as a surge tank and I could probably extend my hp capabilities considerably. The fact we are dropping pressure clearly shows there is HP being lost.

Reality again sets in: If I increase my fueling I will flow more fuel LoL I will also then shorten the duration in which I can run wide open. Remember my EGT's right now are on the edge if run wide open...I refuse to change the turbo sizing, inter cooler, or anything else as it's as "hot" as any Cummins will be in a functional 4x4 truck now. So... no point in running larger line, which BTW is why I didn't choose that when we built the truck.

These old engines are capable of astounding HP figures. They are still limited by the physics of how much you can cool the exhaust temps before they melt.

one way to look at it.... if Don and I lined up for a race of 5 miles. I will win hands down as he's presently set up. Reason being I can hold WOT for 5 miles. If he tried that I'd pass him when he melts.

Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on September 28, 2015, 08:21:06 PM
Trust me I am no physics expert either. I am just largely a simple minded farmer. 

Yeah, like Rob O'Neil was just a ranch guy from Montana.....
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on September 28, 2015, 08:40:18 PM
Would you believe I had to google the Chiefs name?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on September 28, 2015, 09:09:34 PM
There is nothing simple about some of the **** that comes out of your mouth!! (I mean that in a good way buddy).
You ever thought about meth for the temps? Not durable and failsafe enough? Or just happy with the current power?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 28, 2015, 09:15:25 PM
Well, this was a great little discussion. Actually more of a class than a discussion, but Norm might have just saved the day.

Because of the cost of that pump, and the fact that Sarge is eating up my dwindling supply of cashola, I was not going to be able to purchase a $500 pump for a couple weeks.

What I hear is I should reinstall the new factory lift pump and plump all that business back in.

I don't really want 600HP, I just used that as a lofty target for the turbo and injector guys to build to in unison. I would be perfectly happy with 400HP for use day in and day out with some sprint capability.

I can control EGT with the water/Methanol injection. I can pull a couple hundred degrees off the top with that, and it will be a functioning, semi-automatic part of power production.

Maybe Norm can weigh in, but the plan is to have the water injection turn on at a preset pressure, driven from a Hobbs switch. Not sure what the number is for a 12 valve, so I haven't purchased the switch yet.

Now, I purchased the P-Pump fuel pump for my VE motor before I went crazy and changed to this P-Pump setup. It came with a gasket and a spacer. I believe the spacer was necessary to mount that pump on a VE engine, and no spacer is required to mount it to the later Bosh pump motor...Am I correct there?

I already have 1/2" fuel lines from a sump with very few bends. Just gradual turns from the rubber fuel line. The P-Pump has a dual inlet so it should be able to get plenty of fuel. I'll just need to get the line size increased coming out of the mechanical lift pump, to try and get all that to match up.

So I'm off to the races seeing if I can figure that out.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on September 28, 2015, 09:23:28 PM
Norm said he tapped his lift pump to 3/8 didn't he?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 28, 2015, 09:33:35 PM
Norm said he tapped his lift pump to 3/8 didn't he?
The inlet will take a 1/2" NPT I'm pretty sure, but the top (Outlet) is smaller. It is set up for a factory 5/16" line, so getting that larger is going to be a trick.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on September 28, 2015, 10:28:36 PM
Did you get that pump from Hungry Diesel for the VE? If you did.... that's a 14 or 15psi pump, not enough. He changes them to a low pressure spring for the VE. Call him.... but I am sure you can just get a stock 2nd Gen spring, install it, and have the correct pump. I ran 3/8 line to my VE from the pump...what I don't remember is if I used adapter fittings or what LoL  I can look-see in the morning for you.....
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: wilsonphil on September 28, 2015, 10:48:11 PM
I an currently running a 1/2 line from the sump to the mechanical pump, I am running Hungry Diesel modified piston pump and I have a low pressure light from a Gen2 setup and I had a gauge on it when I first installed just to see what I had it was around if I remember correctly.  The only reason I did that was if I ever wanted to run a turned up Ppump motor I already had everything in place.  But I am running a VE setup right now.

1.  P/N 4988747 pump "unmodified"
2.  P/N 3914753 Fuel Tube  from pump to fitler housing
3.  P/N 3914284  Spacer
4.  P/N 3963983  sealing washer
5.  P/N ???????  mounting gaskets 2ea cant find the bag!!

BTW everything was made in China from Cummins.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 29, 2015, 09:27:03 AM
Did you get that pump from Hungry Diesel for the VE? If you did.... that's a 14 or 15psi pump, not enough. He changes them to a low pressure spring for the VE. Call him.... but I am sure you can just get a stock 2nd Gen spring, install it, and have the correct pump. I ran 3/8 line to my VE from the pump...what I don't remember is if I used adapter fittings or what LoL  I can look-see in the morning for you.....
Hungry Diesel...sounds familiar, not sure. Found him on 1stGen.com  I think he drives a Cummins RC like you. Sold me that little tach too...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 29, 2015, 09:31:11 AM
I an currently running a 1/2 line from the sump to the mechanical pump, I am running Hungry Diesel modified piston pump and I have a low pressure light from a Gen2 setup and I had a gauge on it when I first installed just to see what I had it was around if I remember correctly.  The only reason I did that was if I ever wanted to run a turned up Ppump motor I already had everything in place.  But I am running a VE setup right now.

1.  P/N 4988747 pump "unmodified"
2.  P/N 3914753 Fuel Tube  from pump to fitler housing
3.  P/N 3914284  Spacer
4.  P/N 3963983  sealing washer
5.  P/N ???????  mounting gaskets 2ea cant find the bag!!

BTW everything was made in China from Cummins.
So according to Norm, I need to swap out the pump spring...should be easy if I can find the spring

Now about the spacer...Use it or lose it on a P-Pump motor?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 29, 2015, 10:20:56 AM
Dan the Man finished up the aux tank I had him build for Square D

Here is the pick up tube inside the tank:
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 29, 2015, 10:22:00 AM
Pick up, vent line and filler neck attachment
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 29, 2015, 10:23:44 AM
The man does great work! You may recall that super heavy duty water/methanol tank he built which is resting within the frame rails in the back...This is more of the same!

This is the fuel level float from the inside with the internal baffle right behind it:
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 29, 2015, 10:24:50 AM
The tank as it sits now. I said it's finished, but actually Dan has to weld a small shelf on it to serve as a fuel pump mount.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: wilsonphil on September 29, 2015, 11:06:11 AM
I an currently running a 1/2 line from the sump to the mechanical pump, I am running Hungry Diesel modified piston pump and I have a low pressure light from a Gen2 setup and I had a gauge on it when I first installed just to see what I had it was around if I remember correctly.  The only reason I did that was if I ever wanted to run a turned up Ppump motor I already had everything in place.  But I am running a VE setup right now.

1.  P/N 4988747 pump "unmodified"
2.  P/N 3914753 Fuel Tube  from pump to fitler housing
3.  P/N 3914284  Spacer
4.  P/N 3963983  sealing washer
5.  P/N ???????  mounting gaskets 2ea cant find the bag!!

BTW everything was made in China from Cummins.
So according to Norm, I need to swap out the pump spring...should be easy if I can find the spring

Now about the spacer...Use it or lose it on a P-Pump motor?

I am pretty sure you can just get the standard Gen 2 piston pump, the reason I got the one from Hungry Diesel was the VE pump I'm running cant take the stock pressure of the Gen 2 lift pumps, the guy at Hungry Diesel changes the spring out on a new pump so that the pump only produces 10-12psi.  I believe you still need to run the spacer and just the standard pump from Cummins, I'm sure Norm can correct me if my assumption is not correct.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 29, 2015, 11:28:10 AM
Norm...??
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on September 29, 2015, 11:59:13 AM
Norm suggested the Hungry Diesel pump to me also. Pricey but way less than a high end lift pump and should do you.

Says the piston is larger??
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on September 29, 2015, 01:02:04 PM
I think Don got the newer/larger pump iirc. He had a stocker, then changed to a larger one, then blocked it off. Don't remember mentioning a spring change tho.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 29, 2015, 01:37:43 PM
I think Don got the newer/larger pump iirc. He had a stocker, then changed to a larger one, then blocked it off. Don't remember mentioning a spring change tho.
No, I just bolted it on the way it changed
I used that spacer in the truck bed build as a bulkhead panel...remember?
So to use this pump I will need the mo-bigger spring, correct fittings, and figure out if I need that spacer or not.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 29, 2015, 01:45:56 PM
I just sent Hungry Diesel an email, we'll see what he says
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on September 29, 2015, 01:52:22 PM
Ugg. I thought Cummins were supposed to be easy.

...I do remember the spacer/bulkhead thing now. I don't know why, but originally I thought you were talking about some kind of spacer for the p pump.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on September 29, 2015, 02:29:15 PM
You need the spacer Don..... sorry I was picking corn LoL Spacer is about $15 from Case IH

Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 29, 2015, 03:47:35 PM
You need the spacer Don..... sorry I was picking corn LoL Spacer is about $15 from Case IH


OK Norm.
Sent an email to hungry diesel. Figure I'll pick up all the stuff from him. Nice guy there, very helpful.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 29, 2015, 06:33:18 PM
Just finished up with Eric Gilbert, owner of Hungry Diesel. This is the second or third time I have dealt with him, he's good people. Like Norm he knows quite a bit about these Cummins engines.

So he boxed up a the proper spring, a spacer and some gaskets. Should be here before long so I'll get it installed and see if I can clear up the smoke screen some
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on September 29, 2015, 08:12:37 PM
Yah.... Eric is good people, If I buy Cummins performance parts I always try and give him my first choice. In fact he's going to hear from me soon, I have another project on deck.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Sammconn on September 29, 2015, 10:02:00 PM
That. Tank. Looks fantastic.

I'd say you've got a keeper for projects of that nature!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 29, 2015, 11:47:22 PM
That. Tank. Looks fantastic.

I'd say you've got a keeper for projects of that nature!
I asked him if he is building them for public, and he said yes.

He can build nearly anything, but I'd say aluminum things is his specialty. If anyone is needing a specialized fuel or other tank, let me know
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Armalite on September 30, 2015, 05:29:31 PM
Im gone for a few weeks, and come back to pumps, springs, a calculus lesson, engineering marathon, more pumps, let's add spacers, white smoke, ect.....    :o

I suggested wait for new years, Don gave us the smoke, now just wait for the fireworks! 

Keep pushing the ball down the field Don.  You'll get there sooner than later...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on September 30, 2015, 06:35:44 PM
Wow. Another Armalite sighting.  How's east texas?  Still got a burn ban?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 30, 2015, 09:45:39 PM
Im gone for a few weeks, and come back to pumps, springs, a calculus lesson, engineering marathon, more pumps, let's add spacers, white smoke, ect.....    :o

I suggested wait for new years, Don gave us the smoke, now just wait for the fireworks! 

Keep pushing the ball down the field Don.  You'll get there sooner than later...
^^^ Ash sighting right there!

Ash, good to see ya pop up. Yep we have smoke, and lots of it. Who knows, I might even get that thing running correctly with that old school mechanical pump going on!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 01, 2015, 10:41:44 PM
Still waiting for the fuel pump parts to show so we can go for another start
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 07, 2015, 05:43:15 PM
OK, the Hungry Diesel parts showed up, so I'm about to go active on this thing

Something else showed up

Dan finished construction of my auxiliary fuel tank. I forgot how much fuel it holds
10" X 16" X 62" = 9920 cu in

That equals 42.94 gal, so around 38 gallons extra

Total fuel onboard will be 74 gallons
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 07, 2015, 05:45:37 PM
Dan is opening a fabrication shop which can build bumpers, fuel tanks brackets, do-dads and who knows what. He is an experienced welder and owns some very capable machinery.

Here's some details of the tank, which has two internal baffles, not one
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 07, 2015, 05:47:15 PM
Thinking: Paint or not to paint...

Was thinking not to paint, but am now thinking some nice white paint to brighten up the inside of the bed might be nice!

SquareD is eagerly awaiting the fuel pump addition!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: EL TATE on October 07, 2015, 06:48:31 PM
man that tank looks great. isn't white a little "anti tactical"?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cudakidd53 on October 07, 2015, 08:26:37 PM
Really nice tank- don't paint it as it'll brighten up the bed as is.  I did just notice something on top of the cap- solar panels -are ripe for catching some branches etc. and getting torn off- did you already have a plan for preventing that?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on October 07, 2015, 08:28:16 PM
Is it just me or in that pic does that bike look like a little 80cc toy in front of that truck??
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cudakidd53 on October 07, 2015, 08:36:00 PM
Is it just me or in that pic does that bike look like a little 80cc toy in front of that truck??

It does- if not for Red Dog, you'd think it was an 80 cc Pre- Ranger Special!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 07, 2015, 10:13:08 PM
man that tank looks great. isn't white a little "anti tactical"?
Well, it's on the inside.
The inside of armored fighting vehicles, well some of them is white. Better for low illum opns as the wee little bit of light reflects all over showing your pearly white grill when you be skeered!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 07, 2015, 10:14:53 PM
Really nice tank- don't paint it as it'll brighten up the bed as is.  I did just notice something on top of the cap- solar panels -are ripe for catching some branches etc. and getting torn off- did you already have a plan for preventing that?
Yep, not done with that. I want to put a small basket/platform in front of the panel up there so I can sit in the lounge chair sippin' tea watchin' the sunsets
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 07, 2015, 10:16:01 PM
Is it just me or in that pic does that bike look like a little 80cc toy in front of that truck??

It does- if not for Red Dog, you'd think it was an 80 cc Pre- Ranger Special!
I shrank the red dog in the heat during the dryer cycle last time I washed it!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 07, 2015, 10:31:18 PM
While over at Dan's shop today, he showed me this bumper he just fabbed up. He made this one out of 10 gage for his welding truck, and with no winch, but showing the quality of work he can produce. Keep in mind, this is all bent up from sheets of steel.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on October 07, 2015, 10:36:42 PM
Nice tank and bumper.

Bumper is different and adding guards is easy.

As for the tank, just spray it with bedliner, the cheap stuff as it is protected and will easy to touch up.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on October 07, 2015, 10:38:19 PM
Wow.  that's clean
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on October 07, 2015, 10:56:55 PM
Very shiny, and different.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: wyorunner on October 08, 2015, 12:28:34 AM
Did I miss the information on the tank builder? Wouldn't be surprised if I did, but if not I would sure be interested in knowing his contact information for a number of projects I don't seem to have time for.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: BobbyB on October 08, 2015, 03:17:28 AM
Thinking: Paint or not to paint...

Was thinking not to paint, but am now thinking some nice white paint to brighten up the inside of the bed might be nice!

SquareD is eagerly awaiting the fuel pump addition!

Don't paint the bed. The inside of the topper is white correct? If it still is, leave that white, you put/plan on putting lights or lightstrips inside there anyway.

IF all else fails just put some of those tap lights inside the topper, stuck to the roof, tap them on, then off when done. They can easily be removed, just leaves some hook and pile tape squares to reattach later.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 08, 2015, 09:28:55 AM
Did I miss the information on the tank builder? Wouldn't be surprised if I did, but if not I would sure be interested in knowing his contact information for a number of projects I don't seem to have time for.
He is Dan Kuchle (Cook-Lee) 859 760-0448
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 08, 2015, 08:09:27 PM
Here is that fuel pump spring from "The Hungry Diesel" I needed along with the spacer
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 08, 2015, 08:11:10 PM
The inlet fitting is good to go, however the outlet needed some adapting to work.

For the first iteration I went with a straight 1/4" NPT barbed to 1/2" hose
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 08, 2015, 08:12:27 PM
I pulled the top of the pump apart to inspect for black widows or mud daubers
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 08, 2015, 08:13:23 PM
Then the spring housing
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 08, 2015, 08:14:05 PM
The black spring is the one needed for a P-Pump application
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 08, 2015, 08:15:35 PM
To get this to work, Ansen over at Parker hose found a cool, British pipe thread fitting with a captured rubber O-ring that worked perfectly
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 08, 2015, 08:17:04 PM
I didn't know it, but that outlet would be at the wrong angle and way too close to the sound proof piece right above the fuel pump on the block

Block of plate: Gone!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 08, 2015, 08:18:03 PM
With a thin coat of RTV Black, the gaskets and spacer buildup is complete, and everything fits!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 08, 2015, 08:18:37 PM
But that da-gone fitting was just too close!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 08, 2015, 08:20:52 PM
I solved the dilemma by installing two 1/4" NPT 45 degree fittings, clocking the whole thing to get me the perfect angle. With that done I attached the hoses, primed the mess and fired it up


and got this again!!!!!!

No kidding those pics were taken after 15 minutes of running two fans to clear out the smoke
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 08, 2015, 08:23:24 PM
The pump or injectors are just putting out way too much fuel. After maybe 5 minutes of running, OK at idle, but missing like Obamas real identity while reving. Now it does rev up a bunch now, and it wouldn't do that before, so I am moving in the right direction.

Under the exhaust pipe everywhere there is a junction, I got little burned black puddles of fuel
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 08, 2015, 08:24:19 PM
I started in getting hateful thoughts about what I could do to it with that axe, so I spared it and likely me and walked off
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 08, 2015, 08:25:13 PM
On another note, I attempted to antique my front door. Can't decide if it looks OK or is an abortion???

Watcha think?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cudakidd53 on October 08, 2015, 08:30:16 PM
Reminds me of a Differential cover I saw once.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Nate on October 08, 2015, 08:39:25 PM
popcorn
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on October 08, 2015, 11:12:35 PM
Reminds me of a Differential cover I saw once.

Ouch!!! (but I have to agree)

....you wouldn't want us to candy coat it would ya?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on October 08, 2015, 11:47:14 PM
Not a fan given the architecture of your home. Seems out of place.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on October 09, 2015, 01:22:05 AM
What can I say but I agree, repaint the door.

I was actually looking at that upper fitting before you put it on and not surprised at the outcome.

I think you should check the timing and the fuel plate.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: ceelibs on October 09, 2015, 06:21:16 AM
The pump or injectors are just putting out way too much fuel. After maybe 5 minutes of running, OK at idle, but missing like Obamas real identity while reving. Now it does rev up a bunch now, and it wouldn't do that before, so I am moving in the right direction.

Under the exhaust pipe everywhere there is a junction, I got little burned black puddles of fuel

what color is the smoke, black or white/gray? a video  would help but it sounds like either the pump timing is retarded or your sucking air in the fuel feed to the inj pump.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 09, 2015, 09:46:57 AM
The pump or injectors are just putting out way too much fuel. After maybe 5 minutes of running, OK at idle, but missing like Obamas real identity while reving. Now it does rev up a bunch now, and it wouldn't do that before, so I am moving in the right direction.

Under the exhaust pipe everywhere there is a junction, I got little burned black puddles of fuel

what color is the smoke, black or white/gray? a video  would help but it sounds like either the pump timing is retarded or your sucking air in the fuel feed to the inj pump.
Smoke is white...it's fuel. Bit of wet black in the tailpipe, but it's unburned fuel.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 09, 2015, 09:48:10 AM
Door: Repaint

Copy.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: moto123 on October 09, 2015, 02:29:28 PM
I agree, I see what you were trying to do, but unfortunately the door looks like it was something my wife found on pinterest that was done by one of the under talented, egocentric millennials.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: ceelibs on October 09, 2015, 06:06:25 PM
The pump or injectors are just putting out way too much fuel. After maybe 5 minutes of running, OK at idle, but missing like Obamas real identity while reving. Now it does rev up a bunch now, and it wouldn't do that before, so I am moving in the right direction.

Under the exhaust pipe everywhere there is a junction, I got little burned black puddles of fuel

what color is the smoke, black or white/gray? a video  would help but it sounds like either the pump timing is retarded or your sucking air in the fuel feed to the inj pump.
Smoke is white...it's fuel. Bit of wet black in the tailpipe, but it's unburned fuel.

I'd start by getting a jug of clean diesel and placing the feed line for the lift pump in it (effectively bypassing the rest of the fuel system) and see if the problem improves/goes away. If it goes away you have a supply/air leak problem between the tank and lift pump. If it's the same I'd start by checking the pump timing but delivery valves can also cause white smoke/popping.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 09, 2015, 06:38:59 PM
The pump or injectors are just putting out way too much fuel. After maybe 5 minutes of running, OK at idle, but missing like Obamas real identity while reving. Now it does rev up a bunch now, and it wouldn't do that before, so I am moving in the right direction.

Under the exhaust pipe everywhere there is a junction, I got little burned black puddles of fuel

what color is the smoke, black or white/gray? a video  would help but it sounds like either the pump timing is retarded or your sucking air in the fuel feed to the inj pump.
Smoke is white...it's fuel. Bit of wet black in the tailpipe, but it's unburned fuel.

I'd start by getting a jug of clean diesel and placing the feed line for the lift pump in it (effectively bypassing the rest of the fuel system) and see if the problem improves/goes away. If it goes away you have a supply/air leak problem between the tank and lift pump. If it's the same I'd start by checking the pump timing but delivery valves can also cause white smoke/popping.
Talk to me about these delivery valves
I purchased this engine which was rebuilt by another for his nephew. The builder is a Cat diesel mechanic who knows this engine. He said the delivery valves are laser cut and it has a #5 fuel delivery plate. That may sound good, but introduces the likelihood of errors.

With my knowing a bit more than a novice about the 6BT, I'm guessing he has the pump timing off since it is popping on acceleration and idles like a stocker, although it puts out white smoke even at idle. So either/or, too much fuel, or it's being introduced at the wrong time (Timing)

I'll go off and hunt down delivery valve info.

I feel I am very close to solving this mystery!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: ceelibs on October 09, 2015, 06:55:50 PM
The pump or injectors are just putting out way too much fuel. After maybe 5 minutes of running, OK at idle, but missing like Obamas real identity while reving. Now it does rev up a bunch now, and it wouldn't do that before, so I am moving in the right direction.

Under the exhaust pipe everywhere there is a junction, I got little burned black puddles of fuel

what color is the smoke, black or white/gray? a video  would help but it sounds like either the pump timing is retarded or your sucking air in the fuel feed to the inj pump.
Smoke is white...it's fuel. Bit of wet black in the tailpipe, but it's unburned fuel.

I'd start by getting a jug of clean diesel and placing the feed line for the lift pump in it (effectively bypassing the rest of the fuel system) and see if the problem improves/goes away. If it goes away you have a supply/air leak problem between the tank and lift pump. If it's the same I'd start by checking the pump timing but delivery valves can also cause white smoke/popping.
Talk to me about these delivery valves
I purchased this engine which was rebuilt by another for his nephew. The builder is a Cat diesel mechanic who knows this engine. He said the delivery valves are laser cut and it has a #5 fuel delivery plate. That may sound good, but introduces the likelihood of errors.

With my knowing a bit more than a novice about the 6BT, I'm guessing he has the pump timing off since it is popping on acceleration and idles like a stocker, although it puts out white smoke even at idle. So either/or, too much fuel, or it's being introduced at the wrong time (Timing)

I'll go off and hunt down delivery valve info.

I feel I am very close to solving this mystery!

I'm no p-pump expert by any means as all of my Cummins experience has been with my own truck which is still ve pumped. That said I do know that modifying (laser cutting) the delivery valves is a way to improve fuel delivery in a p-pump, I also know that unlike a ve pump, when you mess with del valves on a p-pump the pump should be bench calibrated to set the fuel delivery of all the valves so they are equal, IOW the del valves on a p-pump are adjustable where on a ve pump they are not.
I'd still start with the simple stuff like verifying that the fuel,supply is air free and the timing is set properly (p-pumps like around 16-17 degree's as a good starting point from what I've read).
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on October 15, 2015, 09:46:21 PM
http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/5249069737.html

I found your next project Don....

(http://images.craigslist.org/00E0E_gQxOMlWM0Mp_600x450.jpg)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Sammconn on October 15, 2015, 09:59:18 PM
http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/5249069737.html

I found your next project Don....

(http://images.craigslist.org/00E0E_gQxOMlWM0Mp_600x450.jpg)
Good lord, what the...
I mean is that for real? But I can see it with a 6BT 4 x 4 and sporting OD!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on October 15, 2015, 10:14:33 PM
yup. real.  And it has 5 TVs inside!
http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/5249069737.html
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on October 15, 2015, 10:22:40 PM
That's about as bad as having a truck that's so tall you can't reach the bed to....well....use it as a truck. :)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on October 15, 2015, 10:33:28 PM
yup, and I'm pretty sure that cutlass has higher ground clearance....
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Sammconn on October 15, 2015, 11:25:59 PM
Rollin 32's with 36" rubber.
I'd bet the ground clearance is better.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on October 16, 2015, 02:00:08 AM
Anyone have an RPG or LAW laying around?

Wait, now that SD runs, just run over it  8)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: BobbyB on October 16, 2015, 09:17:29 AM
now that SD runs

It starts, but still hasn't moved under it's own power...  ;D
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 16, 2015, 11:27:53 AM
Bobby's right
Not really running though
I need a professional to go through the timing, Pump, injectors...everything to sort it out. I'll learn as we go, but that is probably the right way to attack this.
Funds not allowing that at the moment so we wait!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Wilbur on October 16, 2015, 12:13:50 PM
I need a professional to go through the timing, Pump, injectors...everything to sort it out. I'll learn as we go, but that is probably the right way to attack this.

No way to get the guy who built it to do that? (I know it was built by a Cat mechanic but dunno if he's local, provided any guarantees, etc. )
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 16, 2015, 02:14:34 PM
I need a professional to go through the timing, Pump, injectors...everything to sort it out. I'll learn as we go, but that is probably the right way to attack this.

No way to get the guy who built it to do that? (I know it was built by a Cat mechanic but dunno if he's local, provided any guarantees, etc. )
I doubt I could find him
Craigslist find, lived in another state, and I didn't keep his number...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Nate on October 16, 2015, 04:30:48 PM
look at your online phone bill around the time that you got it and ill bet you can figure out which one was his number....
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on October 16, 2015, 04:46:57 PM
So let's get this straight: You bought a "fresh" engine off of Craigslist....in another state....and don't have the guys name, nor his number.

I thought pilots were supposed to be the smart ones!   you are awarded 3 demerits.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: BobbyB on October 16, 2015, 05:16:15 PM
  you are awarded 3 demerits.

 :o
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Nate on October 17, 2015, 07:59:59 AM
popcorn
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 17, 2015, 12:26:24 PM
Well, it rolled out more like this:

I find a C-list add for a built 6 BT

I make contact

I find out it is not complete, in fact it has just been torn down to the block

We stay in contact while the parts and pics shuttle back and forth.

Eventually it is complete, he delivers it, and I fork over the cash.

Then thirty two years later I finally start it up and it smokes

I make contact with the builder's son who is now 47 or something like that. He explains his dad moved away during the Clinton era and has never been heard from again.

I had the number stored on my old rotary dial phone which is now in the Ohio frontier settlers museum in a sealed vault.

His son can't remember who I am or anything about any engine and is actually now a Buddhist monk and a vegan, neither of which help my cause.

Records of that engine build were expunged during his conversion to Buddhism in a ceremonial fire

So now that you know the REAL story, you can see where it is better if I just get some performance diesel shop to sort it out
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on October 17, 2015, 12:55:02 PM
Hahahaha.

Well, that explains everything. Demerits revolked. One brownie point awarded.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: EL TATE on October 19, 2015, 11:40:38 AM
I'd say for the level of snark in the response he should receive one bitter beer rather than a delicious brownie. carry on.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cudakidd53 on October 19, 2015, 03:40:27 PM
Dear Don-

please send photo's of the removal of said motor and transport to the Performance Shop, or just idle it there in 1st gear and charge your municipality for mosquito abatement!  We are eagerly awaiting the reports of smashed KIA's and torn-up mulch beds!

The Peanut Gallery
(DOT's R' Us) ::)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 19, 2015, 07:30:52 PM
I'm heavily involved in something else at the moment...and I got hit by a bunch of money eatin' stuff. So I have to lay back on the big bills for a spell

Might try to time it myself...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 23, 2015, 08:35:02 PM
Managed to scratch out some time on SquareD today

I haven't messed with the engine thing yet, since I haven't found the right guy to turn a wrench on it.

But while that is waiting I want to continue hanging things and working off the punch-out list before I get into the slider project and swapping out the rear suspension

So today I got the aux tank painted

First up was a good cleaning with solvent
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 23, 2015, 08:35:46 PM
Followed by a medium coat of acid etching primer
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 23, 2015, 08:36:43 PM
Then I laid down three coats of acrylic enamel with a hardener agent
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 23, 2015, 08:38:00 PM
It all set up pretty quickly, and by 7PM, having painted it around 1400, it was cured enough to untape it
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 23, 2015, 08:39:56 PM
That turned out great with the exception of a couple of runs. But, hey, if it didn't have a run, I couldn't claim it as my work!

SquareD and it's newest brother wait patiently for the next wrench flogging
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on October 23, 2015, 08:55:10 PM
Looks good!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on October 23, 2015, 09:39:15 PM
good to see you aren't slacking....
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 23, 2015, 09:42:06 PM
good to see you aren't slacking....
Def not slackin'
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Nate on October 24, 2015, 12:13:58 PM
i see that the smoker you have in the corner there is completely ruined!  you may have to do a resto thread on that in the mean time........;D
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 24, 2015, 12:36:23 PM
i see that the smoker you have in the corner there is completely ruined!  you may have to do a resto thread on that in the mean time........;D
Completely ruined!

Has several layers of dust on it and even some spider webs...totally unusable

Ash gave me that!

Guess, now that you mention it, time to clean it up so I can smoke some squirrels!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Nate on October 24, 2015, 07:04:20 PM
I would say that its time to try some of nate's smoker recipes
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on October 24, 2015, 08:57:42 PM
Tank looks good. Wheres the fender on the DR??
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 24, 2015, 10:22:19 PM
Tank looks good. Wheres the fender on the DR??
Its there look closely
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on October 24, 2015, 10:27:05 PM
Tank looks good. Wheres the fender on the DR??
Its there look closely

Yup, nice camo shot!!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: rpar86 on October 27, 2015, 01:11:05 AM
Your trash company must love you using the cans as painting tables. At least you'll know which cans are yours if they ever walk away from the end of your driveway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 27, 2015, 09:34:01 AM
Your trash company must love you using the cans as painting tables. At least you'll know which cans are yours if they ever walk away from the end of your driveway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
They don't seem to mind...Those cans are constantly changing colors anyway!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 28, 2015, 09:18:07 PM
Got to the aux fuel tank for an hour or so today.

First up was checking the fit of the fuel pickup. Dan has it sized to where it sits 1/2" from the bottom of the tank
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 28, 2015, 09:20:01 PM
Next I found some fittings for the fuel supply and vent ports.
These will be temporary as I think the supply needs to be a 90 degree fitting, and the vent needs to be 1/2"
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 28, 2015, 09:21:28 PM
The fuel level sender is custom fit. You take a measurement of the depth of the tank, then reference a chart, then cut to length...its that simple!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 28, 2015, 09:22:24 PM
With that done, I checked the swing and it was right on!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 28, 2015, 09:23:12 PM
So I mounted it in the tank top
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 28, 2015, 09:24:32 PM
The tank filler is next. It has a split ring which snakes inside the tank
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 28, 2015, 09:25:56 PM
The bolts become studs which protrude upward securing the outer plate holding the 1.5" inlet
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 28, 2015, 09:27:04 PM
Dan did a quality job here, The fit was perfect!

Next up was the prep and mounting of the fuel pump. Here it is:
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 28, 2015, 09:28:48 PM
I mounted it under the "Shelf and plumbed it to the inlet. Fear not, I will install an inline filter, this is only temporary using the good parker hose I have been using all over the truck.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on October 28, 2015, 09:47:42 PM
Nice
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on October 29, 2015, 12:29:34 AM
Purdy, looks like that 90 is called for.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Wilbur on October 29, 2015, 12:35:54 AM
Looks good Don....what have you decided on plumbing the filler? Will you run it to the side of the cap some how? Thinking it will be tough to fill from inside the cap?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Atkinsmatt on October 29, 2015, 07:11:36 AM
That's looking great.  Have you decided about giving the tank the capability to refuel other stuff, ie Sarge?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: husker77c on October 29, 2015, 09:24:02 AM
Have you incorporated a way to "liberate" fuel from other sources?   

Example
If the grid goes down and fuel stations have no pump to get fuel out of their tanks.   You could rig up a quick connect on the inlet side of your pump to allow you to attach a length of hose to pump out of other tanks to fill your tank.   




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: EL TATE on October 29, 2015, 01:12:05 PM
^^yes that!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on October 29, 2015, 04:16:49 PM
SD=Road Warrior
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 29, 2015, 08:35:00 PM
Looks good Don....what have you decided on plumbing the filler? Will you run it to the side of the cap some how? Thinking it will be tough to fill from inside the cap?
Been looking at that

I think I am going to move the cap CB antenna up the side to near the top, then cut in a fuel filler where the antenna base is now. Would make for a neck of maybe 8" long. I think that would be best than risk cracking a long pipe that runs to the back.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 29, 2015, 08:37:00 PM
That's looking great.  Have you decided about giving the tank the capability to refuel other stuff, ie Sarge?
I don't know Matt

I could plumb in a drain somewhere, but this little fuel pump does not move a lot of fuel quickly. The only thing I might want to refuel is the Suzuki if I could score one of the motorcycle diesel engines they have bolted onto the KLR Kawas...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 29, 2015, 08:38:26 PM
Have you incorporated a way to "liberate" fuel from other sources?   

Example
If the grid goes down and fuel stations have no pump to get fuel out of their tanks.   You could rig up a quick connect on the inlet side of your pump to allow you to attach a length of hose to pump out of other tanks to fill your tank.   




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No elaborate equipment needed
For oil pans, just ram a screwdriver into the pan and catch it in a bucket, then pour it through a cloth into the tank.
In an emergency, one could run straight WVO with almost no processing
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 29, 2015, 08:39:25 PM
I switched up the fittings for some 90's and came up with a much cleaner setup
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 29, 2015, 08:40:50 PM
It fits together well and is pretty secure. I'd say lay a rubber pad over it when it is vehicle mounted and call it good!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 29, 2015, 08:42:19 PM
Next up, I ran the wires to a pigtail. I like the idea of being able to unplug the tank to remove it, although in reality, I doubt it ever comes out of the truck once hard mounted
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 29, 2015, 08:43:52 PM
I preattached a 1.5" preformed fuel hose, and with that, I believe it is ready to slide in there and bolt down and wire up
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 29, 2015, 08:46:25 PM
Hopefully, the next time we look at the garage scene, the fuel tank will no longer be on the floor
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on October 29, 2015, 08:57:36 PM
I would plum the line right across the front using a clamp to hold the line/filter. Then loop to the pump, keeps the filter in the open for easy access. That loop is begging to pinch and a 90 off the pump would really clean it up and make it solid.

Just an idea,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 29, 2015, 09:05:47 PM
I would plum the line right across the front using a clamp to hold the line/filter. Then loop to the pump, keeps the filter in the open for easy access. That loop is begging to pinch and a 90 off the pump would really clean it up and make it solid.

Just an idea,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
JR, That's Parker premium hose. You couldn't pinch that closed if you tried!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on October 29, 2015, 10:59:00 PM
Just an idea. Still solid looking. 8)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: BobbyB on October 30, 2015, 02:22:21 AM
JR's version looks cleaner.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on October 30, 2015, 02:41:48 AM
JR's version looks cleaner.

 8)

Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 30, 2015, 02:53:41 PM
You gents will see in a bit why things need to be tucked forward and out of the way.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cudakidd53 on October 30, 2015, 03:12:04 PM
You gents will see in a bit why things need to be tucked forward and out of the way.

Desk/Workstation coming?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on October 30, 2015, 05:27:33 PM
I thought of that Don, but also thought about changing the filter once the filler is on.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 30, 2015, 11:30:46 PM
I thought of that Don, but also thought about changing the filter once the filler is on.
Never gonna change it

Cause I'm never gonna put fuel in it

Cause I'm never gonna use the truck

Cause the darned truck is never gonna run

Cause I'm never gonna get enough time to work on it!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 30, 2015, 11:33:55 PM
You gents will see in a bit why things need to be tucked forward and out of the way.

Desk/Workstation coming?
I thought of grabbing a piece of 3/4" plywood and ripping it lengthwise after it was cut to maybe 38" wide or so and join the ends (Former cut seam) with a hinge. The thing would fold over on itself. One end resting on the fuel cell, the other on the Bosch tool/parts boxes. That would serve as a desk/work area, then unfold it for an emergency place to sleep.

Had that plan almost from the beginning
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on October 31, 2015, 11:02:53 AM
Or a makeshift OR in the MASH unit


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 31, 2015, 12:11:05 PM
Or a makeshift OR in the MASH unit


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Scary thought ^^^
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 03, 2015, 07:38:11 PM
I was going to mount up that aux fuel tank today but the final coating I applied to the base did not completely dry, so I didn't get too far with it

First I primed the base with the Summit acid etching primer
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 03, 2015, 07:39:21 PM
I decided to use an epoxy bedliner compound on the base of the tank since it will get hard mounted and will likely never be removed.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 03, 2015, 07:43:59 PM
The plan for this truck is to get it running.

To do that I plan to just take it to a shop where a real diesel mech can set things right with whatever is causing the motor to throw out so much raw fuel.

So I'll throw in this Aux tank, really, just to get it off the floor, and hooking that up. Then I'll throw a couple more leaves into the front spring leaf packs and fix a couple small leaks I found. I still need to hook up the brakes and the shifter linkage but with that, it will be flat bed time and from the shop over to the alignment shop to get an initial alignment on it.

Following that, I'll figure out those much longer rear springs then build the side armor. With the cold weather at hand, lawn work will soon cease and liberate time to get back on the Square truck
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on November 03, 2015, 07:57:03 PM
I'm excited.  Its not an affront to your manhood to take it to a pro.  I learned the cost/time curve the hard way and don't mind when it makes sense.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cudakidd53 on November 03, 2015, 07:57:56 PM
Sounds like a good plan Don!  How's "Sarge" coming?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on November 03, 2015, 08:08:57 PM
I like sarge better than big red.

Do you have a shop local? Maybe someone from the shop working on sarge can come over?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 04, 2015, 09:12:33 AM
Sounds like a good plan Don!  How's "Sarge" coming?
They have it all done except for redoing the loader control valve again.

Seems when they fired it up, Lock-Tite took it out in the lot for like an hour of grubbing, then applied his Hawk eye to it and discovered the LCV was still leaking. They had it in the shop, but had to take it out for a higher priority job. That and the O-rings hadn't come in yet, so it all makes sense.

I'm afraid I won't get much work out of it this year. It starts in raining pretty soon and that will put the 'Habeaus-Stopus" on heavy track vehicle operations.

Hey, Never thought about this, but I need a loader bucket

I need a 1.75-2 yard bucket with teeth for a 1976 Case 1150B. Mine is all worn out underneath and the cutting edge. A new custom one costs more than a Kia. I can't find a used one...Anyone hear or see such a thing, let me know!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 04, 2015, 09:15:19 AM
I'm excited.  Its not an affront to your manhood to take it to a pro.  I learned the cost/time curve the hard way and don't mind when it makes sense.
Copy that!

I have been so busy like as in all day, every day on something else that I don't have the time to teach myself the art of diesel injection timing. I feel like I want to learn it, as this is far from my last Cummins!

Tell you what, before all the dust settles, C-Max will be rolling on a Dana 60 with a tweaked 12 valve 6BT Cummins pushing it around!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Dustoff35 on November 04, 2015, 08:56:48 PM
Hey, Never thought about this, but I need a loader bucket

I need a 1.75-2 yard bucket with teeth for a 1976 Case 1150B. Mine is all worn out underneath and the cutting edge. A new custom one costs more than a Kia. I can't find a used one...Anyone hear or see such a thing, let me know!

Have Dan take a look at it, I'm sure he can re-plate the underside and tune up the cutting edge.  With his welding truck, he can take care of it either at Case or at the farm. 
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 04, 2015, 10:00:41 PM
See that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ A Duane sighting!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cudakidd53 on November 05, 2015, 07:04:07 AM
That's a great development (Duane sighting)- hi Duane hope all is well with you!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 05, 2015, 03:01:23 PM
Got the aux fuel tank physically in the truck

Found this cool fuel door assembly over at Speedway Motors.

Will be cutting that into the topper to provide a filler like 8" away from the tank!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Sammconn on November 05, 2015, 04:07:43 PM
Nice! That will make the plumbing much mo easier.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 05, 2015, 07:41:54 PM
Yessir it will!

So I got the Aux tank in and mounted

Wasn't so bad, and it fits like a glove

When I was clearing out the bed I realized I had never installed the air filter unit for the ARB electric air pump, so I secured that up as high as I could get it
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 05, 2015, 07:44:02 PM
Then I mounted up the base plate for the folding table top affixed to the spare tire carrier
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 05, 2015, 07:45:22 PM
I found this data plate which used to be riveted to the front of the bed, so I just riveted it back inside near the back
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 05, 2015, 07:46:35 PM
After washing out the bed, I man handled that tank onto the tail gate.

That tank weighs 370 pounds!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 05, 2015, 07:49:45 PM
You believe that? Would you like to buy an airline? I own one, Delta, sell it for $1,000, cash!

It probably weighs around 40 pounds soaking wet. By working it back and tilting it over the wheel well, I squeaked it into place with no pulled muscles!

I did have to shed some blood, though, but that just proves the plumbing is working just fine!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 05, 2015, 07:51:40 PM
The first step was to drill it in one hole at a time, then securing it with a cleco before drilling the next hole
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 05, 2015, 07:54:23 PM
Then the tank flanges were drilled to 5/16" and the body holes opened to 27/64" to fit the nut-serts fastener thing-ah-ma-bobs.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 05, 2015, 07:56:26 PM
These things work really well when you need to put threads in thin metal, perfect for this application.

Here, I crushed one to show how the back side swells, locking it into place, and how it all looks in 1/8" steel
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 05, 2015, 08:00:52 PM
And here is the tank all secured using a bunch of 1/4" bolts holding rubber backed washers which secure the tank

Thinking about it, that steel bed halo and now this fuel tank is contributing along with a much stiffened frame to a more rigid chassis than Dodge ever thought of. Time will tell if this was the right approach.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 05, 2015, 08:03:07 PM
To accommodate the inbound filler neck assembly, I'll have to move the antenna up to near the top of the cap.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 05, 2015, 08:06:00 PM
And with that, I closed it up for the evening. More work coming to this area, but I really just want to get things hooked up so I can get the front springs redone in prep for moving the truck
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on November 05, 2015, 10:47:25 PM
Love the nutzerts, they are great! You can use on thinner sheet metal to buy using a washer on the back.

Like the setup Don. Why not mount the antenna on the roof rack?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 06, 2015, 09:57:46 AM
Love the nutzerts, they are great! You can use on thinner sheet metal to buy using a washer on the back.

Like the setup Don. Why not mount the antenna on the roof rack?
Thanks JR

I have the coax cable all tucked into the chassis, so I think I can squeak out just enough length to move the antenna up a foot, and that's it without un-bundling a lot of prior work
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 10, 2015, 08:42:49 PM
Started off today with the removal of the antenna mount
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 10, 2015, 08:43:46 PM
Then I made up a template out of cardboard to fit the new Hagan filler assembly
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 10, 2015, 08:45:50 PM
The Hagan filler neck is typically installed to the back side of a panel, then the fuel door is raised flush with the existing body panel. I am just going to bolt it to the outside of the mounting/stiffening plate
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 10, 2015, 08:46:51 PM
It also has a cool feature where you leave the cap mounted and just stick the fuel nozzle through the center
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 10, 2015, 08:48:04 PM
With a lot of care, out came the rectangle of fiberglass to fit the assembly
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 10, 2015, 08:48:50 PM
So far things are fitting just fine
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 10, 2015, 08:49:54 PM
With some quick plasma torch work, the cover plate was fashioned
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 10, 2015, 08:51:18 PM
Then all that was drilled in and temporarily held in place with some Clecos
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 10, 2015, 08:52:19 PM
Next I repositioned the antenna up a bit higher than before
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 10, 2015, 08:54:19 PM
Then I painted the parts, first with acid etching primer, then with black John Deere paint.

Installation will have to wait till tomorrow
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 10, 2015, 08:55:35 PM
And here's the GS (Garage Situation) for tonight!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on November 10, 2015, 09:49:17 PM
Donate any blood today in pursuit of perfection?

Did you locate a suitable shop to complete the mission on the engine?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cudakidd53 on November 11, 2015, 06:56:48 AM
Red dog appears to be prepared to nest for the winter!  Guard dog appears to be claiming Square D bed area for herself!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 11, 2015, 12:48:32 PM
No blood letting...

Found a out of work diesel mech...Thinking of inviting him over for a visit
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Wilbur on November 11, 2015, 02:23:55 PM
I like the fuel door and getting the tank installed....that will be nice. I had a 40 gallon tank in the bed of a K10 Chebby p/up I used to own. Was great for driving cross country to have 56 gallons of gas. Then my bladder became the "weak link" in driving long distances. Ha! I like the "open" fuel cap part too. Very nice.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 11, 2015, 07:33:02 PM
I like the fuel door and getting the tank installed....that will be nice. I had a 40 gallon tank in the bed of a K10 Chebby p/up I used to own. Was great for driving cross country to have 56 gallons of gas. Then my bladder became the "weak link" in driving long distances. Ha! I like the "open" fuel cap part too. Very nice.
Almost had it mounted in the truck today but I was the guest speaker for a Veterans day thing at a school in the morning, then had to attend another Vet day thing at another school later on...Then I got home to discover my dog had a case of the runs INSIDE MY HOUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on November 11, 2015, 07:59:21 PM
Charlie Romeo Alpha Papa
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 11, 2015, 08:20:32 PM
Oh it was awful!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on November 11, 2015, 10:35:32 PM
At least it was not in SD,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 13, 2015, 11:50:45 PM
I installed the stiffener panel and fuel door assembly today

I ran out of #10 screws and had to resort to using 1/4" hardware

It's kind of big and in your face as it were. I'll likely replace these large screws with proper size ones pdq
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 13, 2015, 11:53:54 PM
Thought I'd tone it down a bit, so I sprayed it black
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 13, 2015, 11:54:47 PM
It's a bit busy in here, but not to worry, the inside gets carpet glued up in the bare fiberglass
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 13, 2015, 11:58:48 PM
Decal day

Had a bunch of them laying around that I had made for the truck, so I started sticking them on where they belong

I officially named the truck...pretty subdued lookin'
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 14, 2015, 12:00:37 AM
I labeled the winch fair-heads with the maximum straight line ratings
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 14, 2015, 12:01:46 AM
The lift eyes got labels as well
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 14, 2015, 12:02:58 AM
And the master aft winch switch got labeled up too
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 14, 2015, 12:04:12 AM
That's all I had time to do on Square D today!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: EL TATE on November 16, 2015, 12:26:58 PM
I have had several encounters with the dog's indoor bowel issues. Cooper was nice enough to spread it around in 5 or 6 locations so that I didn't have to clean up one big mess. Thoughtful critters those mutts. I'm liking the decals, very official, and the Square D almost looks 3D; was that intentional?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 16, 2015, 02:56:25 PM
I have had several encounters with the dog's indoor bowel issues. Cooper was nice enough to spread it around in 5 or 6 locations so that I didn't have to clean up one big mess. Thoughtful critters those mutts. I'm liking the decals, very official, and the Square D almost looks 3D; was that intentional?
Yes, intentional

A gray letter to be very subtle, with a camouflage "Shadow" to show the trucks intentions...I know.. as if that needed to be telegraphed!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: EL TATE on November 16, 2015, 05:46:52 PM
Very subtle, and very cool.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 18, 2015, 09:52:01 AM
I found a diesel mechanic, Wayne, in my church. He is between jobs at the moment and has agreed to come over and time the truck for me.

Last night I ordered the tools necessary to time the engine.

Man, it's a process. Have to pull the gear on the injection pump off the pump. Have to pull the #1 injector, injector line and the delivery valve off the #1 slot on the Bosch pump. It's a cool procedure, and very precise. You measure lift in the delivery valve orifice by the thousandth's of an inch to set the timing. I need to get some input, but I am thinking somewhere from 16-18 degrees.

If that doesn't fix the problem, then on to the next issue, which I think we will not have.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: EL TATE on November 18, 2015, 10:40:45 AM
Looks like you're gettin' ready for some loud stinky fun!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on November 18, 2015, 11:02:34 AM
Not having dine it, it does sound involved. I didn't think it was that much work.

I guess 15 is normal, with guys going from 16-18. I would stick with 16 for a start. Once you have it benchmarked you can tweak.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 18, 2015, 03:32:32 PM
Any Cummins smart guys out there want to weigh in?
Marine pistons, Marine injectors, multi angle valve job, stock height head gasket, head studs, laser cut delivery valves, #5 fuel plate, 4000 RPM governor spring, 72mm compressor/12 CM exhaust, 3 piece manifold.

To me those mods would suggest 17 to 18 degrees of timing, but 16 degrees would cut the power back some, and that might be OK to keep it from spinning the tires off the wheels
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on November 18, 2015, 04:12:01 PM
Where's our farmer/rocket scientist? he should know.
Title: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: husker77c on November 18, 2015, 06:09:52 PM
From what I've read the higher you go the more difficult it can be to start in the cold among other things.  Have you seen the 12 valve beginners thread on cummins forum?   I mean no insult by suggesting it.  It's chock full of everything you need to know about our engines.  Fuel supply issues timing etc.  After reading that several times through I've decided I'm going to 16 or 16.5 when I time mine.  Seems to strike the best balance.  Although I have to get it in the truck and running before I mess with the pump or timing.  I did put my 4k governor springs in today though. 

If you don't mind I can paste the link.  It's bookmarked on my phone it's that good.


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Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 18, 2015, 09:43:40 PM
Where's our farmer/rocket scientist? he should know.
Maybe he (hopefully not) stumbled across another WW2 bomb in one of his old barns somewhere.

Anyone hear of any unexplained explosions in Nebraska lately?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 18, 2015, 09:45:00 PM
From what I've read the higher you go the more difficult it can be to start in the cold among other things.  Have you seen the 12 valve beginners thread on cummins forum?   I mean no insult by suggesting it.  It's chock full of everything you need to know about our engines.  Fuel supply issues timing etc.  After reading that several times through I've decided I'm going to 16 or 16.5 when I time mine.  Seems to strike the best balance.  Although I have to get it in the truck and running before I mess with the pump or timing.  I did put my 4k governor springs in today though. 

If you don't mind I can paste the link.  It's bookmarked on my phone it's that good.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Love it
Paste away
It's all sharing here!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: husker77c on November 19, 2015, 07:20:52 AM
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/94-98-performance-parts-discussion/314312-beginners-thread-read-first.html#/forumsite/20661/topics/314312?page=1


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Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on November 19, 2015, 10:57:19 AM
I have seen that before. Wealth of good info there.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 19, 2015, 11:00:52 AM
Would you know it...already had it saved under my Cummins tab.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 19, 2015, 09:46:22 PM
Got some more done

I'm prepping to have the engine running properly, so moving lines around is the order of the day

I was having a problem filling the fuel tank. I'd fill it for awhile, then it would burp like a pint of fuel out of the filler!

Examining it, I noticed the vent hose had a dip in it, or low spot which was collecting fuel, blocking off the vent altogether, and the fill line did as well.

So everything had to be cut a bit shorter and moved so as to provide a positive slope from filler to tank
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 19, 2015, 09:47:07 PM
I moved the filler pipe up about an inch or so
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 19, 2015, 09:48:46 PM
And then I shortened and "T-ed" into the main tank vent line with the vent line from the aux tank.

I will also vent the entire system to atmosphere in the next step of the tank fitting operation
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 19, 2015, 09:50:33 PM
At this point, I ran out of fittings to plump in the fuel return and aux tank transfer line, so I went on to the wiring. I ran the wires and connected everything. The pump switches on and the wire is run for the fuel quantity gage
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 19, 2015, 09:52:24 PM
The filler neck for the aux tank is a machined piece of pipe that fits into the cap threaded adapter. The two parts have to be permanently affixed to each other prior to assembly
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 19, 2015, 09:53:40 PM
I decided to sweat the two pieces together with some tin/lead solder just like it was a copper joint. It worked out great!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 19, 2015, 09:54:46 PM
I like how that cap works!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 19, 2015, 09:56:08 PM
With the help of one of the pre-rangers, I bolted in the magnetic catch and got the lid working. I then affixed it's decals
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 19, 2015, 10:01:09 PM
The fuel filler pipe looks better

I'll install a couple pipe nipples here and attach up the fuel injector return line and the aux fuel transfer line
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 19, 2015, 10:01:55 PM
Yea, I don't like the black painted screws either!

The #10 X 24 screws are in the mail somewhere and will replace that WTB (Way-too-big) hardware that is currently messing with my head

I installed some wire loom protector here and there and did some things inside the cab, but of course did not take pics, so I know...It didn't happen!

But the truck is looking and functioning ever more like a truck with every new day
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 24, 2015, 09:31:14 PM
I pulled the filler pipe from the fuel tank to drill it for two bulkhead NPT fittings. One if for fuel return from the engine injector harness, and the other is the transfer line from the aux tank.

I thought it would be a good idea to run the line from the engine injector bypass to the tank, because that fuel will have been warmed by that hot motor. That hot fuel will also warm the 30 odd gallons in the tank on those really cold days when the chicken grease in there has turned into a solid.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 24, 2015, 09:32:59 PM
I built that pipe up with some O-rings on both the inside and the outside, then additionally applied a bead of RTV to the inside of the fitting
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 24, 2015, 09:34:38 PM
The pipe was reinstalled and the new lines hooked up
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 24, 2015, 09:35:36 PM
Then I sorted out the new hoses and tied them down
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 24, 2015, 09:38:49 PM
At this point the fuel system is vented to the main fuel filler neck only. That is insufficient in my view, so Here goes another vent line that will "T" into the existing vent and have it's own atmosphere port

To do this I will be using plastic hard line and push-to-connect fittings and a cool brass "Maze" vent fitting
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 24, 2015, 09:40:19 PM
The vent found a home near the top of the topper just behind that sturdy antenna mount
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 24, 2015, 09:41:44 PM
The "T" fitting was inserted in the vent line after a corresponding sized piece was removed
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 24, 2015, 09:43:00 PM
And that was connected to the bulkhead fitting. Now I feel the fuel storage system is adequately vented.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 24, 2015, 09:44:13 PM
Next, I started to create the filler pipe that will connect the port with the tank inlet
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 24, 2015, 09:46:33 PM
The inlet to the tank is a smaller size than the 2.5" filler port neck, so I'll be starting with a larger diameter radiator hose, then sectioning it to get the right shape, then finishing the tank end with a smaller diameter hose, and gluing the two pieces together to form a new hose
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 24, 2015, 09:48:36 PM
With the magic of a mostly used up tube of rubber cement, I permanized the two parts into a happily married piece. (Hmmm, bad analogy...most marriages these days break up...)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: husker77c on November 25, 2015, 07:45:56 AM
After plumbing my engine I really admire all the work you've put into your fuel system. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on November 25, 2015, 11:21:30 AM
The ol Dodge is looking pretty clean. Nice work.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 25, 2015, 10:49:36 PM
The timing tool is on the property and Wayne, the diesel mech is coming over Monday to time it up.

I hope this clears things up (literally!)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on November 26, 2015, 07:19:12 AM
! Looking forward to the outcome!


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Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Nate on November 26, 2015, 10:15:51 AM
popcorn
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Higher Caliber on November 27, 2015, 09:32:18 AM
It's a bit busy in here, but not to worry, the inside gets carpet glued up in the bare fiberglass

Carpet???? or some of this material???
http://americanblastsystems.com/blast-and-bullet-resistant-curtains/
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 27, 2015, 01:39:33 PM
^^^ Now that is interesting

Used to roll with that Kevlar blanket stuff in the aircraft

Odd that they stretched it out in the back to protect you guy's butts, but didn't put any under the pilots seat!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Higher Caliber on November 28, 2015, 07:31:48 AM
grunt perks! collective bargaining- We got Kevlar seat cushions in the helo and the 42A's got to keep their up-armored Humvees that never left the wire... Of course we still stole them. I remember there being a note on the door from the navy chief requesting that we maintain branch integrity when we pick the vehicles we were going to steal.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Atkinsmatt on November 28, 2015, 09:42:39 AM
Sometimes you had an armored seat. We had no more than a helmet and chest anchor.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: BobbyB on November 28, 2015, 10:32:28 AM
I don't remember kevlar blankets in the back of the birds I flew in. I remember canvas webbing seats, or no seats with metal flooring.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 28, 2015, 11:24:24 AM
I don't remember kevlar blankets in the back of the birds I flew in. I remember canvas webbing seats, or no seats with metal flooring.
Oops...Maybe I wasn't supposed to mention that...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: wilsonphil on November 28, 2015, 01:13:14 PM
Of course we still stole them. I remember there being a note on the door from the navy chief requesting that we maintain branch integrity when we pick the vehicles we were going to steal.

This brings back some memories!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 30, 2015, 07:10:44 PM
Well Wayne and I have been working on SquareD all day. He is doing the timing trouble shooting, with me helping, and I am doing all sorts of things while not turning the motor over in this timing marathon job.

I started the day with finishing off the fuel system and getting that leak free. Wayne started with pulling the engine down enough to get room to work on the necessary stuff
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 30, 2015, 07:21:45 PM
This job is not for the feint of heart. The pump must be separated from it's gear inside the timing cover, and an access plug pulled from the back of the cover as well as the #1 delivery valve
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 30, 2015, 07:26:02 PM
The timing took set is required to do this job. Without it, I do not see how an accurate timing setting can be attained.
Pictured is that timing tool set...
With one notable exception

A barring tool

Without it, I will never attempt this job again
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on November 30, 2015, 07:26:48 PM
MOAR!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 30, 2015, 07:28:33 PM
We did not have the barring tool, which is a clever little tool.

It is used to rotate the 6BT engine.

You pull a rubber plug out of the block adapter and push that tool in until it engages the flywheel teeth, then turn it with a 1/2" ratchet

You will be spinning the motor around a few times
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 30, 2015, 07:30:16 PM
As you can see the valve cover-cover and injection lines must be removed. You also have to remove the cold side upper pipe all to allow access to the parts you will be spinning
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 30, 2015, 07:31:29 PM
You gain access to the pump gear through the front cover by simply removing the oil filler neck
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 30, 2015, 07:32:40 PM
This is where the fin starts...finding top dead center
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 30, 2015, 07:34:46 PM
While Wayne fussed with that, I installed the block heater
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 30, 2015, 07:39:46 PM
Then the aux fuel filler neck pipe
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cudakidd53 on November 30, 2015, 07:47:12 PM
Hey Don-

Wouldn't the aux filler neck be less prone to leaks if you flipped it?  Then the upper half would go into the lower half instead of the current flow path hitting the inside edge of the lower half......just a musing from the popcorn crowd.  :)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 30, 2015, 07:48:08 PM
He got a bit closer, identifying the timing as having been set at 13 degrees. Now that's good and that's bad.

Remember this truck is pumping out raw fuel from the exhaust so something is amiss. Since the timing could be a culprit, verifying correct timing concerns me for what might be going on here.

This dial indicator screwed into the #1 fuel delivery valve is how one sets timing. The pump is set to a very specific number. In the case of this engine I settled on 16.5 degrees BTDC as my timing number. Factory was 12.5, and this pump had been set at 13 degrees. Up to a point, the more timing (Larger number) the more fuel the motor can digest and hence, make more power.  So we had to turn the engine over very slowly until we got .258" on the dial indicator.

Next while holding the motor steady, you have to break the injection pump collet loose from the timing gear. Then with no contact between the two, set the motor back to TDC.

Yes this is very tedious.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 30, 2015, 07:49:41 PM
Hey Don-

Wouldn't the aux filler neck be less prone to leaks if you flipped it?  Then the upper half would go into the lower half instead of the current flow path hitting the inside edge of the lower half......just a musing from the popcorn crowd.  :)
No Mike, a consensus of me and I consulting us confirms proper OPP (optimum part placement)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: husker77c on November 30, 2015, 07:59:41 PM
This is the exact reason I will take my truck somewhere to have the timing bumped.  I want no part of that


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Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 30, 2015, 08:05:14 PM
So between the various events, I bolted in the electrical access next
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 30, 2015, 08:07:42 PM
Then I crawled underneath and just like that had the shift linkage problem solved and that was hooked up and working, and now it has later model parts that are used in todays trucks

Then I went after the wire looms, finishing up the left one and covering and securing that
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 30, 2015, 08:09:28 PM
We stopped the timing setting project until we get a barring tool which will be delivered tomorrow morning. I wired and attached the grid heater leads which were not previously connected.

Things are getting done!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on November 30, 2015, 08:19:33 PM
So Don, I sense you alluding to if the pump was set at 13.5 BTDC and raw fuel was pouring out of the exhaust that there may be other problems that would cause the pump to throw extra fuel?

Any speculation?  What are the possibilities?  Bad pump? something else?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on November 30, 2015, 08:33:32 PM
I've never done the cummins timing thing, and I think that I never will want to do so! (although I did have fun setting the timing/mechanical injectors on the cummins in the 5 ton...and it SUCKED!!)

So, is he thinking the pump? Injectors? Not enough air?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cudakidd53 on November 30, 2015, 09:10:21 PM
Hey Don-

Wouldn't the aux filler neck be less prone to leaks if you flipped it?  Then the upper half would go into the lower half instead of the current flow path hitting the inside edge of the lower half......just a musing from the popcorn crowd.  :)
No Mike, a consensus of me and I consulting us confirms proper OPP (optimum part placement)

That's counter-DOT talk for "shut-up Mike"...... :o LOL
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 30, 2015, 10:27:40 PM
So Don, I sense you alluding to if the pump was set at 13.5 BTDC and raw fuel was pouring out of the exhaust that there may be other problems that would cause the pump to throw extra fuel?

Any speculation?  What are the possibilities?  Bad pump? something else?
Well we did discover something else...very tight valve lash

The intakes are supposed to be .010" and the exhaust's set at .020"
I could not squeeze a .010 in the intake side and it just slid in the exhaust.

So I know the valve lash is off for sure, and plan to reset that tomorrow.

Following setting the lash, finishing setting the timing and bolting it all back together, we will fire it up and see if it is better or the same (Or worse???)

From that point I'll formulate some plan to move forward

I had to make some assumptions. The inline pump on this engine was rebuilt about 30,000 miles ago. Since then it had 4K governor springs added.

I was told the engine was running well at that point, then came the rebuild of the engine. During the rebuild, he added a #5 fuel plate, which fuels A LOT, and laser cut delivery valves which like the plate are designed to flow a lot of fuel.

Working on the assumption that the engine was running with that pump before and for 30K miles, the pump itself should be OK. I question the fuel plate, the DV's and the installation of those along with the new marine injectors I installed.

Everything else is unchanged or renewed.

The head was rebuilt with new 150# springs and a 3 angle valve job.
The gaskets were all replaced.
The pistons were replaced with forged units with Marine configuration bowls.
The rings and bearings are all high quality and of a standard size.
The oil pump was rebuilt
The crank was checked and cleaned, nothing else was needed
It got ARP head studs.
The KDP mod was done
It was professionally assembled with all new parts

So it is probably something injection pump related...
Title: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: husker77c on December 01, 2015, 11:29:28 AM
The tight lash could be a problem.  I've read where some people set them at like .006and .014. I set mine at .010 and .020 like you were saying.  So depending on how tight they actually are they could be opening to far to soon and getting unburnt fuel out the exhaust.

Are you 100% sure it has marine Pistons?  Not doubting you but if you didn't put em in and the seller said they were etc. If it had standard pistons and marine injectors and the big delivery valves couldn't the injectors be spraying a lot of fuel outside the bowls which could causing fuel out the exhaust?   

What size turbo is on it?   It could be you're just pushing more fuel than you have air for.  Big injectors and bigger DVs will flow a lot of fuel.  Flooding it when you hit the throttle so to speak.   From what I've read its rare to have a bad p-pump.   


Edit
Could it be the boost line running to the afc is pinched a little bit causing then afc to read a higher boost pressure and consequently pumping more fuel?

Edit again.
Could be a broken injector I guess too. 


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Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 01, 2015, 05:52:11 PM
Husker,

It has Marine pistons. I have pics of the rebuild. It also has the Marine 370 HP injectors so they should match.
As you probably know people run the marine injectors in regular piston engines so it should run, although probably produce some additional black smoke.

The valve lash is too tight, but I don't know how much tighter...Will find out tomorrow.

AFC line, well, I'll check that tomorrow. I pulled the oil supply line today and found NO oil in it!!!!!!

More about that in the write up that follows
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 01, 2015, 05:55:13 PM
We finished timing the motor today. Then checked it several times. It is within 1 thousandth of an inch of 16.5 degrees timing advance. So that is as good as it is going to get!

I wanted to show the Barring tool which I purchased today from Snap-on Tools.

It makes cranking the engine over by hand a breeze. Literally a two finger operation with this little jewel!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 01, 2015, 05:57:08 PM
With the timing checked Wayne properly torqued the injection pump to its gear at 155 ft/lbs.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 01, 2015, 06:05:17 PM
It was about this time that Wayne mentioned that he didn't recall seeing any oil come out of the injection pump when he pulled the plug out of the bottom.

So I started to investigate

First I pulled the top of the oil supply line off the top of the pump only to discover that not a single drop of oil came out!

So I proceeded to pull the line off the engine. Upon checking, we found the line to be devoid of oil. As in not a single drop!!!!!!!

Now, I just don't get it. The oil pressure gage comes right up to normal when the engine "Starts." There is evidience of oil in the top of the head and the rocker arms appeared a bit "Wet," so I believe the engine is indeed oiling.

So I did some research online.

I discovered that whenever a Bosh inline pump is rebuilt or replaced, you must pour 750 ML of oil into the pump. That got me thinking. The engine will not rev. Like it is not getting enough fuel. That is inconsistent with the massive amounts of smoke blowing out of the tailpipe, but it was a working theory.

We were speculating that the bob weights on the governor were running freely, not in an oil bath which would allow them to spin open more easily, effectively cutting off the fuel.

OK, bottom line is I added the correct amount of oil and resealed the pump.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 01, 2015, 06:07:41 PM
Then we reassembled the engine, checked everything and fired it up.

There is effectively no change from before all this work to now. The engine is still getting tons of fuel which are just being pumped out the exhaust unburned or cloudy white.

Tomorrow we will adjust the valves to see if that could be the problem...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on December 01, 2015, 06:09:50 PM
Who's the purty guy with the funnel? ;D
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: EL TATE on December 01, 2015, 06:18:56 PM
SUPER frustrating to do all that work but to witness the same results. bordering on the definition of insanity there. it's got to be something stupid that was overlooked like the oil in the pump.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 01, 2015, 06:19:10 PM
Who's the purty guy with the funnel? ;D
Truth is I did get a little prettier today...Was on my right cheek, small spot maybe half an inch or so, but definitely prettier!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 01, 2015, 06:26:15 PM
SUPER frustrating to do all that work but to witness the same results. bordering on the definition of insanity there. it's got to be something stupid that was overlooked like the oil in the pump.
Yea, I don't get down all that much, but I am a bit bummed over this. So much work...
If it isn't the valve lash, I am going to start to run out of ideas.

I do not think it is the turbo. It was built by professionals for the exact combo I have and what I wanted to do. 12CM exhaust is close to stock, so should spin up normally. 72MM compressor is way big enough to pump in all the air seven engines need, so I doubt it's that.
Now are the brand new Bosch injectors malfunctioning??? You really think so? I don't.
The timing is correct
We put the oil in the pump
I rerouted the fuel return line back to the tank
I installed the correct mechanical lift pump, with the correct relief spring.
I have 8psi of good filtered fuel being supplied to that lift pump.
I have 1/2" fuel lines, no kinks
I visually checked the delivery valves and found no major defects, but I can't tell by looking if they were actually laser cut as I was told...
So
If the lash adjustment doesn't cure the problem, then I guess I start tearing it down again...injectors, then pull the pump off and send it out

But it's Christmas so I am not spending the $$$ on all that, so SquareD is just going to sit for awhile I guess
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on December 01, 2015, 06:36:08 PM
Any way to get me pics of the edges of those laser cut plates? I can tell you if they were or not.....
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: EL TATE on December 01, 2015, 06:57:25 PM
Coming from Mr. Laser himself, I would suggest that is a good plan.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Wilbur on December 01, 2015, 08:21:26 PM
That is disappointing Don....I trust you will get to the bottom of it. But certainly frustrating as hell when you're going through it. Good luck! It will be worth it when you solve it.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on December 01, 2015, 08:26:34 PM
I know little to nothing about 6BTs so this advice is worth what you paid for it...

Seems to me that if you are certain you have good compression and we know you have air, then it is a fueling issue.  Injectors all being bad at the same time is unlikely and from what you describe it would have to be many if not most bad to fuel at that rate.

You solved the timing on the pump so I'd have to believe the problem lies in what ever meters the fuel to the injectors, which I suppose meaning the pump has to get gone over by a very qualified shop.

Sorry for the trouble but as Wil said, it will be worth it and a great education to boot.

Remember the words of the Apostle Paul in Romans 8:28-31
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: rasimmo on December 01, 2015, 10:34:14 PM
Without being there it is hard to be much help. From your description it sounds like more like an air issue than fuel to me. If the air ain't getting there and the fuel is when you try to accelerate then the engine won't rev up and the unburned fuel will just go down the pipe. I don't remember what you said boost pressure was or where you are measuring. Something as simple as a rag left in the IC pipe or a roll of duct tape left in the turbo air inlet (seen both happen) could really throw you for a loop. I would go through all the air side too before spending more money fixing things that you ain't sure are broken.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 01, 2015, 10:36:51 PM
I have a bunch of other things to check out now after researching the subject and reading for a couple hours
Air leak in fuel supply line
AFC improperly adjusted (Who knows???)
Lift pump not working properly
Lift pump cam (Not likely)
bad injection pump (Won't respond to some adjustments)
Injectors malfunctioning (Not likely since they are new)
Valve hanging open causing loss of compression and incomplete ignition (Possible)
Glazed cylinder walls (Not, were just honed)
Loss of compression-Piston (Not likely, new pistons)
Sticking piston ring (Improbably...new)
Timing (Not...adjusted and checked, it's right)
Water leaking into cylinder (Not likely unless I was scammed and sold a bad engine)
Leaking head gasket (Not likely, new gaskets, head studs, appears to be installed correctly)
Demon with a square D Voodo doll (Was going to pray over this one, but a thought occurred to me...What if God sees this truck as an idol I have placed before him. Well, I'll bet it will never run right/wrong/otherwise!) So I won't pray for such a shallow thing.

Bottom line: Frustration, tired eyes, worn out, need sleep...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 01, 2015, 10:39:09 PM
Without being there it is hard to be much help. From your description it sounds like more like an air issue than fuel to me. If the air ain't getting there and the fuel is when you try to accelerate then the engine won't rev up and the unburned fuel will just go down the pipe. I don't remember what you said boost pressure was or where you are measuring. Something as simple as a rag left in the IC pipe or a roll of duct tape left in the turbo air inlet (seen both happen) could really throw you for a loop. I would go through all the air side too before spending more money fixing things that you ain't sure are broken.
Eventually I will get to that if nothing else, but we had some pipes off and found nothing unusual, and the turbo is open, you can see it spinning. It starts to light but then just chokes and loads up
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 01, 2015, 10:39:38 PM
Valve lash check in the morning, then move on from there...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Nate on December 01, 2015, 10:47:31 PM
Who's the purty guy with the funnel? ;D

You talkin about the guy with the white hair and THE REALLY BAD COMBOVER!?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on December 01, 2015, 10:54:37 PM
Who's the purty guy with the funnel? ;D

You talkin about the guy with the white hair and THE REALLY BAD COMBOVER!?

You didn't just go there.......
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Nate on December 01, 2015, 10:58:46 PM
Heck, he was tryin to hide it with the shades.  Oh and yeah i did..........:D
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Dawg25385 on December 02, 2015, 12:04:24 AM
Hope you get it figured out chief... Lots of time and money sunk on the ole girl, I can only imagine how much you're looking forward to getting her out on the road


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Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on December 02, 2015, 12:10:32 AM
Heck, he was tryin to hide it with the shades.  Oh and yeah i did..........:D

Me thinks he had all his hair when he started on this and has pulled it out trying to sort this out....
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on December 02, 2015, 02:59:01 AM
Just got all caught up, lots of good work done, but one thing I didn't see checked or I missed it.

symptoms:

It doesn't burn all the fuel, doesn't rev.

Everything is solid or new and to spec maybe with a slight tight vavle lash.Turbo never really spins up, good oil pressure.

The camshaft is not timed correct.

Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cudakidd53 on December 02, 2015, 07:17:11 AM
^^^^^ oh boy- that would create issues ^^^^^   

Isn't it possible for some cams to have the drive gear removed and potentially mounted 180 degrees off?  IIR some even have additional advance able to be built in.......

Don, really sorry to see this arduous struggle to push the ball in the end zone!  Prayers sent!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on December 02, 2015, 07:39:01 AM
Just got all caught up, lots of good work done, but one thing I didn't see checked or I missed it.

symptoms:

It doesn't burn all the fuel, doesn't rev.

Everything is solid or new and to spec maybe with a slight tight vavle lash.Turbo never really spins up, good oil pressure.

The camshaft is not timed correct.



oh.  That may be a captain obvious moment right there.  Should be easy enough to check.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 02, 2015, 12:13:16 PM
Hmmm, camshaft timing, that's interesting
OK have to figure out how to check that without pulling everything apart. If it is, should be able to correct.

I don't comb over
No need to
Don't care
Hair is optional
Wasn't issued to me in the Army, so apparently I don't really need it
Actually I part it high as in a negative C/O
But I spent most of my time on my back yesterday under the front end, spinning the motor over. And I go days without combing or brushin' it
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Tedram on December 02, 2015, 01:27:20 PM
Hang in there Chief! You will get it figured out, my dad would call all this work "Good Training"-- Best of luck today and hope adjusting the valves makes it all good.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on December 02, 2015, 01:51:14 PM
It can be checked as it is. TDC and time the cam via the lobes.

If changes are needed, the timing cover come off.

Just a tooth or 2 would cause what you have.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 02, 2015, 05:04:47 PM
Hang in there Chief! You will get it figured out, my dad would call all this work "Good Training"-- Best of luck today and hope adjusting the valves makes it all good.
Thanks Friend!

But the results of todays efforts can be summed up in the pic:
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 02, 2015, 05:08:15 PM
Its not all bad, as Tedram noted it's all training. So I will take the high ground here and say I am learning a lot through practical experience about this great motor.

Going down the checklist of things that could make a lot of smoke, a notable diesel shop when contacted said they would bet on the pressure control valve located on the return side of the pump.

So the first thing we did was to pull it to check the spring/ball for proper operation
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 02, 2015, 05:10:27 PM
It's a trick little devil to get, but easily checked. The actual valve fits inside the bolt which passes through the banjo and allows a certain amount of fuel, I believe 1.5 gal/min to pass back to the fuel tank
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 02, 2015, 05:13:03 PM
The visual inspection was fine, no broken spring and the plunger operated smoothly. Other than testing the actual pressure in the pump case, which is a step that is forthcoming, this thing passes muster.

The next thing that could cause the white smoke would be the AFC pneumatic signal. The line pictured is a length of nylon tubing that appeared to be in good shape and unobstructed.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 02, 2015, 05:14:44 PM
I pulled the fuel return line, hooked a length of hose up to it and blew in it. I easily exhaled through it into the fuel tank several times, so I verified the return is clear, and added an element of freshened breath to the fuel in there!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 02, 2015, 05:15:55 PM
Next up, adjust the valves.

You can see the inside of the valve covers has been cleaned up and are lookin" spiffy!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 02, 2015, 05:17:55 PM
With the valve covers off we were able to verify that the valve lash was tight on every rocker arm we could check initially.

You can see fresh assembly lube on the rocker trunion indicated
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 02, 2015, 05:19:27 PM
Back to setting the engine at TDC...AGAIN...

Here is the handy-dandy little timing tool which is a part of the P-Pump
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 02, 2015, 05:21:23 PM
The valves are easily set, with 6 being set at this position, which I think was "A" on the dampener, and the other 6 set on "B"
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 02, 2015, 05:22:52 PM
OK, while Wayne finished up the clearance, I threw in some cheapo floor mats I found at Cosco last night for $14.99
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 02, 2015, 05:24:32 PM
And I finally discovered the perfect application for my double jointed 3/8" ratchet

Which is

Cranking that barring tool about seventy six thousand times to set the engine to adjust the valves
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 02, 2015, 05:26:13 PM
Still more time and wanting to claim a small victory, I found my windshield wiper bushings, tore that system apart, clean, lubed and coated it and started putting it all back together again
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 02, 2015, 05:27:20 PM
And just like that I had the smoothest operatin' wipers this side of the ladies room over at Walmart!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 02, 2015, 05:29:17 PM
So I closed that up and added a completely destroyed (Dusty) cowl panel I coated months or years ago, can't remember!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on December 02, 2015, 06:28:36 PM
Frustrating
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on December 02, 2015, 06:38:02 PM
So no good with running the valves, to bad.

What did he say about the cam being off?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 02, 2015, 10:58:54 PM
So no good with running the valves, to bad.

What did he say about the cam being off?
We ran out of time basically. Had to cut off work at 1700 to get ready for church.

Will get back on it in the morrow, but plan to pull the injectors first and maybe peer down the holes.

Wayne ran into something like this once before and found the bottom of an injector broken off and laying in the piston bowl!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: wilsonphil on December 02, 2015, 11:57:19 PM
If you are pulling the injectors you might as well do a compression test so you can cross that off the list.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: husker77c on December 03, 2015, 10:29:49 AM
I really hope it's something simple we all have overlooked.  Good thing these are easy to work on.  Even pulling the head (if necessary) is only a few hour job.   

That barring tool would sure have been handy when I did my valves and governor springs


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Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 03, 2015, 11:25:41 AM
I really hope it's something simple we all have overlooked.  Good thing these are easy to work on.  Even pulling the head (if necessary) is only a few hour job.   

That barring tool would sure have been handy when I did my valves and governor springs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The barring tool is a must have for a dedicated 6BT guy...I have learned!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 03, 2015, 11:26:01 AM
If you are pulling the injectors you might as well do a compression test so you can cross that off the list.
Considering that...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on December 03, 2015, 05:10:54 PM
If you are that far with these issues, that would be a solid start.

That little tool is pricey.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on December 03, 2015, 11:13:34 PM
Don.... did yr fella Pin Time the pump? Dial indicator....remove delivery valve and so on? An online example...https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=X_8U7QC_hpE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=X_8U7QC_hpE)

Reason I ask is because it sure sounds like the internal pump timing is hosed. I would assume he did this if he's experienced with 6bt's but it never hurts to ask when thinking on a problem such as yours.

Case pressure could be an issue if someone was in that pump and screwed it up. But I'd be making sure I had tipple checked the actual pumps timing, Set that, then set the engines timing.

The lack of oil to the turbo is concerning...that needs fixing asap. It's possible to get the wrong gasket behind the filter plate...if ya already solved this ignore me I have been unable to commit much time to forums but thought I'd toss some ideas yr way. You did pre lube the turbo right?

That valve lash was very tight, begs the question regarding "professionally assembled IMHO" I think I'd not assume anything is correct at that point until checked.

Good luck man, looking forward to it's maiden drive...










 
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 04, 2015, 09:44:04 AM
Don.... did yr fella Pin Time the pump? Dial indicator....remove delivery valve and so on? An online example...https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=X_8U7QC_hpE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=X_8U7QC_hpE)

Norm,
Thanks for stopping by, was hoping for your opinion.
We used the dial indicator method. I purchased the tool kit and timed it with the dial indicator method in the DV #1 hole. We both did it so I could learn. We set the pump to .256" which equates to 16.5 degrees BTDC. Then while monitoring the dial indicator, broke loose the collet from the timing gear, then reset the engine to TDC using the pin from the pump inserted into the timing hole. Then while I was holding the barring tool underneath he torqued the pump gear to collet to 165 ft/lbs. We even cleaned the surfaces off with brake cleaner like the manual specifies.
Then just to be sure, we pulled the pin, rotated the engine backward and forward then back to TDC and pinned it, then checked and came out with exactly .256", so nothing moved. I think we did it correctly.

Reason I ask is because it sure sounds like the internal pump timing is hosed. I would assume he did this if he's experienced with 6bt's but it never hurts to ask when thinking on a problem such as yours.

Couldn't agree more...It sounds mostly like a pump timing issue, but I do believe that is correct.

Case pressure could be an issue if someone was in that pump and screwed it up. But I'd be making sure I had tipple checked the actual pumps timing, Set that, then set the engines timing.

Now, Norm, he was inside that pump. But I am not sure if he did the pump mods before when the engine was running in his nephews truck or while the engine was torn down for this rebuild??? He added the 4000 RPM gov springs and a #6 fuel plate, but who knows when that happened??? You know that round screw on the corner of the AFC cover? Well to get it off the accepted method seems to be to tap a #15 torx bit onto it, thus cutting in the "Head" which you use to remove it. Well it appears to have the pattern of a torx bit having been used on it.

The lack of oil to the turbo is concerning...that needs fixing asap.
 
Not turbo...the oil line to the back of the injection pump. The one that comes out of the "T" fitting and goes north to the injection pump, then south to the vacuum pump. Not the turbo line...Pay attention son! ;-))

It's possible to get the wrong gasket behind the filter plate...if ya already solved this ignore me I have been unable to commit much time to forums but thought I'd toss some ideas yr way. You did pre lube the turbo right?

I think I "Tossed" some 15W-40 in there!

That valve lash was very tight, begs the question regarding "professionally assembled IMHO" I think I'd not assume anything is correct at that point until checked.

That's the nightmare of everyone whoever purchased an engine which was rebuilt from someone else...Was it done right. Well to that I'll say, I sure thought so when I laid out the $3200 for it. Looking at it, the build looks good. I mean it is cleaned, has prelube on everything...when we'd break torques, they would come loose close to the specified amounts. We dissembled with a torque wrench in some instances just to check. Even the valve cover bolts all broke around 20 ft/lbs.
But we did find all the lashes on the valves to be a few thousands tight. One intake I thing took a quarter turn of the nut to bring into spec. That's not gross by any means. If I had to guess, I'd say intakes were in the .008" range and the exhausts around .015"

Good luck man, looking forward to it's maiden drive...










 
Response above^^^
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on December 04, 2015, 07:18:15 PM
First I know nothing about these motors but I know about complicating things. With that said this is a race engine for all purposes and race anything is a PIA. Would it not be wise to replace some of these speed parts with stockish parts and get the thing running as a base line? Just a thought, was going to make some comment about CL and a big date again but figured that may put you over the edge.......... So this is me being helpful! ???
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 05, 2015, 11:01:15 AM
First I know nothing about these motors but I know about complicating things. With that said this is a race engine for all purposes and race anything is a PIA. Would it not be wise to replace some of these speed parts with stockish parts and get the thing running as a base line? Just a thought, was going to make some comment about CL and a big date again but figured that may put you over the edge.......... So this is me being helpful! ???
How many times you been fired and banned?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on December 05, 2015, 11:14:40 AM
I do agree there could be some merit to base lining the engine....but it's not at all a "race" engine. In fact other than the injection pump modifications it's almost stock. The pistons/injectors Dons using are standard issue industrial Cummins. Found on millions of boats and stand alone power plants all across the world. The Turbo is aftermarket admittedly..but that's not his problem.

In my experience Don has either a horribly defective injector (possible) Someone screwed up the pump (happens all the time)

Or... a thought, is the #1 Delivery valve in upside down? That will wash fuel to the injectors full bore. I'd double check that.

Ideally I agree on this one aspect..... it would be handy right now to have a known "good" pump to install for troubleshooting. These engines are stone simple....the only complicated part is honestly the pump. And that's not even complicated, just "fickle" I once had a irrigation motor that I replaced a tired pump on. The "rebuild" was improperly assembled and the phasing was out from the keyed pump gear. I had to try every possible position tell it ran...I think the 8th try we hit gold and it still runs today just fine.

I am looking forward to this mystery being solved. I was going to offer to UPS Don a new pump to try....until I looked this morning and realized we already installed it on a engine, and I am in fact missing the core pump even....

Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on December 05, 2015, 11:21:50 AM
Who do you send your pumps too Norm? Mine has over 300k on it and thinking it may need a little TLC.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on December 05, 2015, 11:53:19 AM
I "send" them to a very unsavory character named "Jon" He is an absolute nightmare to do business with, because he's known in these parts as the "pump ghost" No one has a clue who he actually is.....LONG story.

The shop who everyone uses here because they are good at what they do is http://banghartservice.com/services/ I am unsure who does their pump rebuilds. I do know they offer decent service as they have a great reputation for quality work/sales. And they speak performance... hard to find a pull truck or drag truck that doesn't sport a Banghart decal..its like a status symbol LoL

I do it myself, or I admit defeat and I send them to the ghost. But for a mostly stock pump refresh I'd just buy a rebuild from a reputable shop/net source.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on December 05, 2015, 12:35:56 PM

How many times you been fired and banned?

Negative need more info, are you wanting how many times you fired & banned me or are you looking for a life total? Because if we add my wife in here that's gunna take awhile to add up. Which then opens up pre wife territory & you / Tonya have nothing on your predecessors! ;D
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Wilbur on December 05, 2015, 07:46:05 PM
Don I'm sorry this is giving you such frustrations. I wish I knew anything helpful about these but I dont. I hope you get to the bottom of it quick.  :-\
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 06, 2015, 10:22:18 PM

How many times you been fired and banned?

Negative need more info, are you wanting how many times you fired & banned me or are you looking for a life total? Because if we add my wife in here that's gunna take awhile to add up. Which then opens up pre wife territory & you / Tonya have nothing on your predecessors! ;D
Forget it, too much to think about
Whatever your status is at the moment, just continue that, OK! ;-)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 06, 2015, 10:28:10 PM
Norm,

The guy who built this motor has been inside the pump, or so he says, but I don't know what he may have done wrong.
We're pretty sure we have the timing spot on.
Going to hook up a fuel pressure gage to the fuel line going to the Bosch pump, see what that says.
Still planning to pull the injectors, that could tell a lot.
They were not rebuilt, they were brand new Bosch Marine 370HP units which I just bolted in, nothing more. So unless something failed on one or more of them, I don't think that's my problem

As for the DV being upside down, hmmm, that's not something I would know anything about. Having pulled the DV's, I imagine you are talking about that little insert in the base of the thing? Guess I have to dig up a pic and see if what I have matches up. Be nice to find it upside down!
Norm, could the cam be off a tooth like JR suggested earlier? I wouldn't think so, but is it possible, and would that cause this smoke issue?

And why did you say the #1 DV? Why not one or all of the others?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: DOOLEY on December 07, 2015, 08:38:26 AM
DON, WE HAVE A BENCH MOUNTED HAND PUMP TO CHECK THE SPRAY PATTERN ON INJECTORS, IF YOU BRING THEM UP TUESDAY OR WEDNESDAY WE CHECK THEM FOR YOU, THE BOYS ARE AT SCHOOL TODAY.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on December 07, 2015, 09:16:33 AM
Don.... I would check all the delivery valves for correct assembly. That's a quick easy check and costs nothing. Same with a quick look at all your injectors just to make sure nothing is amiss. I might also as you suggested do a compression test. If nothing shows up as a problem....then assuming you have triple checked any possibility of fuel supply and return issues being amiss...

If it was my truck/problem I would likely end my frustrations immediately and do the following.

I'd remove the front cover and check that the cam timing is spot on. Making sure the letter designated on the pump and the cam gear match. This then allows you to set it to a baseline. This is a cheap check as well...just a gasket if your careful.

If at that point it doesn't start and run correctly (and unless you find something amiss it probably won't) I'd spend the $300 or so it will cost to have the pump "benched" and let someone with the right equipment adjust/check out that pump.

Not being there to look/hear it run it's tough to say....but sure looking like a possible pump issue. But you can cover all your bases methodically elsewhere and narrow it down. 

Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 07, 2015, 12:16:02 PM
Don.... I would check all the delivery valves for correct assembly. That's a quick easy check and costs nothing. Same with a quick look at all your injectors just to make sure nothing is amiss. I might also as you suggested do a compression test. If nothing shows up as a problem....then assuming you have triple checked any possibility of fuel supply and return issues being amiss...

If it was my truck/problem I would likely end my frustrations immediately and do the following.

I'd remove the front cover and check that the cam timing is spot on. Making sure the letter designated on the pump and the cam gear match. This then allows you to set it to a baseline. This is a cheap check as well...just a gasket if your careful.

If at that point it doesn't start and run correctly (and unless you find something amiss it probably won't) I'd spend the $300 or so it will cost to have the pump "benched" and let someone with the right equipment adjust/check out that pump.

Not being there to look/hear it run it's tough to say....but sure looking like a possible pump issue. But you can cover all your bases methodically elsewhere and narrow it down. 


Norm,
Thanks for the recommendations, I'll be pulling the DV's and injectors this afternoon.
Wayne just read your post over my shoulder and wanted to say that when he dissembled the #1 DV to do the timing adjustment, he found some metal filings in the lower section. Having found that, I had him pull all the delivery valves and we found metal particles in the $5 valve as well.

To this I stated I had pulled that plug out of the front of the injection pump to install the Vulcan dual fuel inlet kit, and I thought the metal filings might have come from that. Frankly, I'm not sure at all, just made sense.

So off to the races we'll see what we find
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on December 07, 2015, 12:32:39 PM
Norm, He can check the cam timing with the cover on, right? (TDC to Lobe) Then just pull the front cover if something doesn't look right. Timing marks are great, but you have to pull the cover and a dial indicator is closer than a hash mark.

The pump is then timed off the cam, right? Basics first as everything else will be off from there.

I am no CTD expert, but a pig air pump is a pump.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on December 07, 2015, 01:21:42 PM
Probably the absolute simplest method is to set the engine at TDC and pull the timing plug..if you can see the tab is centered in the hole your golden if not...it's incorrect.  I am sure if Wayne timed it they are rather sure it's correct at TDC> .... In my example I'd pull the front cover to check for the KDP being done and the gears housing bolts being doused in lock-tight. As well as a general assurance I haven't missed anything. The simplest way is to watch the #6 valves. When at TDC on the compression stroke they will both be in overlap.

The fact Wayne has had the DV's out then answers that question, they are not improperly installed. So the "metal" bits starts to beg other questions. Admittedly one spec of metal shaving in an injector can raise hell also. The mystery deepens....










Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on December 07, 2015, 02:42:35 PM
Metal bits and no oil?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 07, 2015, 07:26:52 PM
Metal bits and no oil?
Yea...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 07, 2015, 07:29:31 PM
So we pulled the injectors and inspected them

Mechanically, they look fine

You might notice that #2 and #4 were wet, while the others seemed to be normal, albeit a bit carboned up for only a few minutes of run time
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 07, 2015, 07:33:04 PM
We replaced the stock injectors back in the holes to see if that made any difference, but It didn't really. Perhaps, it was a tad bit easier to start, but it blew smoke like a white dog and still rattled and banged about.

We attached a fuel pressure gage to the big T which splits the fuel entering the Pump into two routes, the stock one, and one from the front

With the Kennedy pumps running, both of them we were seeing about 5PSI pressure
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 07, 2015, 07:34:52 PM
Then the return line started leaking, well, pouring fuel onto the floor, so I replaced the weak Chinaman clamp with a good standard American made one, and fixed that leak in a jiffy flash
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on December 07, 2015, 07:39:50 PM
I'm still fixated on that metal shavings comment.  That's post filter right?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on December 07, 2015, 07:50:23 PM
No oil=metal rubs=metal shavings=bad

5 PSI sounds good though, they are doing the job.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on December 07, 2015, 07:57:45 PM
Did you compression test while you had them out of the hole?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 07, 2015, 08:21:37 PM
Next we bled the injector lines A G A I N and fired the thing up. It still ran like crap and smoked the place up A G A I N

But this time we got a read on the fuel pressure. We only had 10psi with the engine attempting to stay running. Even if I floored it it would only spool a little bit but feel like it was totally bogging down.

From what I read We need to see a bare minimum of 22psi at idle and 25-35psi fuel pressure at anything above idle. So this is obviously a big problem.

Since the pressure measurement is taken almost right at the point the 1/2" line divides into two lines, it is feasible I am seeing just half of the pressure, and that pressure is then doubled back in the injection pump case. But if the check valve was doing it's job, and there was sufficient volume, then the entire side of the fuel system north of the lift pump should be registering the requisite pressure.

So, I think I just found a bad pump, incorrect spring, something, but certainly not enough fuel pressure at the pump inlet.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 07, 2015, 08:22:35 PM
I'm still fixated on that metal shavings comment.  That's post filter right?
Yes, those metal bits were from the inside of the injection pump at the seat of the delivery valve
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on December 07, 2015, 08:24:29 PM
I thought we agreed that they needed 20+ psi.?

...I wonder how long it takes to wipe out a pump with no oil.

Dunno if you remember but when it first started, it was smooth according to you, Cappo: "it started immediately. Oil pressure came right up and after a bit of rough idling it settled out to a smooth rhythm".

My opinion is, from my couch, I bet ya hurt that pump.....no oil and all. And according to Kooter, she needs close to 30psi minimum for the power you expect to produce.


I guess you posted while I spent 1/2 hour typing.........
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on December 07, 2015, 09:22:55 PM
I'm leaning torward Kooter.

Pull that pump off and have it benched.  Pull the lines and the injectors and have them flushed to remove any contaminants from the metal shavings.  Solve your LP problem and put it all back together.  Run a compression test after checking timing.

It will have no choice but to run.  Or get blown up out of frustration.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on December 07, 2015, 10:12:59 PM
You have the dual lift pumps, then the HP pump but still no fuel or to much.

Double check timing (TDC/cam) send the pump out and flush the rest. If they find shavings in the pump, the injectors will need to be cleaned.

The guy who was going to do my tranny closed up shop, errrrrrrr.

Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on December 08, 2015, 07:12:49 PM
Ok.... hang on a sec. I may have got this wrong so if so ignore me.

You are running twin electrics with a mechanical on the engine? Can those electric pumps be pulled through? If not, it's possible/likely that could be your issue regarding fuel pressure.. 10 psi is not even close to enough. You NEED 17-22psi at idle. 25-35psi @2500rpm under no load.

Lack of fuel pressure could be causing all your problems. White smoke odd idling... no throttle response, these are all symptoms of low fuel pressure. I thought you had that issue resolved, I am sorry I didn't mention it again.

Also the overflow valve on the p pumps is a known issue....might not hurt to check/replace that. That can also result in low pressure. They move like 1.4gpm through the return line when stuck open and can lower fuel pressure.

You can't go any further trying to diagnose this issue until you fix the fuel pressure issue.


 







Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on December 08, 2015, 07:33:47 PM
The dual lift pump are from Kennedy and can be pulled through. I run 1 on my max.

I think he upgraded the stock lift pump a few pages back to a HP unit.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on December 08, 2015, 08:02:11 PM
I run OEM Cummins lift pumps on all our irrigation plants...gravity fed no less. No problem making 25psi whatsoever. Hell my daily driver VE pump is making 10psi at WOT under load. That's with a 3/8 line and a OEM fuel filter.

Don has to fix this issue first..without proper fuel pressure, the injection pump is not going to work.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 08, 2015, 10:22:49 PM
Ok.... hang on a sec. I may have got this wrong so if so ignore me.

You are running twin electrics with a mechanical on the engine? Can those electric pumps be pulled through? If not, it's possible/likely that could be your issue regarding fuel pressure.. 10 psi is not even close to enough. You NEED 17-22psi at idle. 25-35psi @2500rpm under no load.

Lack of fuel pressure could be causing all your problems. White smoke odd idling... no throttle response, these are all symptoms of low fuel pressure. I thought you had that issue resolved, I am sorry I didn't mention it again.

Also the overflow valve on the p pumps is a known issue....might not hurt to check/replace that. That can also result in low pressure. They move like 1.4gpm through the return line when stuck open and can lower fuel pressure.

You can't go any further trying to diagnose this issue until you fix the fuel pressure issue.


 








You got it right

Low fuel pressure

The two Kennedy pumps are pulling from a 1/2" line and through a fuel filter.
Remember with the engine off the I showed 5psi near the injection pump.
With the motor "Running" we showed 10psi. So the lift pump is providing some pressure increase, 5psi, but why only 5psi more?
You will recall I put the good spring in the new lift pump so I should have had all sorts of pressure, but apparently not so.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 08, 2015, 10:24:42 PM
I run OEM Cummins lift pumps on all our irrigation plants...gravity fed no less. No problem making 25psi whatsoever. Hell my daily driver VE pump is making 10psi at WOT under load. That's with a 3/8 line and a OEM fuel filter.

Don has to fix this issue first..without proper fuel pressure, the injection pump is not going to work.
Think I should buy another new Cummins lift pump and try that?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on December 09, 2015, 12:19:20 AM
Sounds like a good start. Will you have to replumb?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on December 09, 2015, 06:55:22 AM
 It's not unheard of for the camshaft to be worn and the pump not work correctly. Extremely high mileage engines have been know to do that on occasion. But that would be a rare deal...

I'd temporarily plumb around your fuel pumps and filters whichever way is simple/cheap and see if you develop fuel pressure.

If you get a gain into respectable range of pressure...well ya then know it's not the mechanical pump. If this shows little to no gain...I'd start considering taking your pump off and having a look at it. They are basically simple and able to be rebuilt.

Out of curiosity, did you increase the size of the return line over OEM>?






Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: husker77c on December 09, 2015, 08:11:29 AM
Just FYI for everyone.  When my cummins was in the dodge it was all stock.  I hooked up fuel pressure, boost and EGT gauges.  I eliminated the fuel heater and running the stock set up I was getting 22psi fuel pressure at idle.  With the Ford the kid that removed the engine jacked the factory fuel filter housing all up and I couldn't use it.  I plumbed a remote filter set up that went in between the factory lift pump and the IP.  I get 30 psi at idle now. 

Just shows how restrictive the stock filter element is and shows what the factory lift pump is capable of.   

My two cents.  Get rid of the electric pumps completely.  Stock lift pump will support fuel for a whole lot of power.  The electric pumps are just not necessary unless you're building a crazy engine, sled pulling,  drag race etc and they just add complication. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on December 09, 2015, 09:05:39 AM
First thing to do is dead head a gauge right before the p pump. If the pressure is good,  put it back together and put the gauge in the return line after the party pump, dead head.  If the pressure is OK then the pump is returning too much.
That's what I would do on a customer car.
...on my vehicle I would just gently pinch the return line off while running and see if the pressure rises.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 09, 2015, 09:12:55 AM
It's not unheard of for the camshaft to be worn and the pump not work correctly. Extremely high mileage engines have been know to do that on occasion. But that would be a rare deal...

I'd temporarily plumb around your fuel pumps and filters whichever way is simple/cheap and see if you develop fuel pressure.

If you get a gain into respectable range of pressure...well ya then know it's not the mechanical pump. If this shows little to no gain...I'd start considering taking your pump off and having a look at it. They are basically simple and able to be rebuilt.

Out of curiosity, did you increase the size of the return line over OEM>?







Return line: Err, Ahh, Just did that again.
The return line from the injector harness/line is either 5/16" or 1/4". I want to say I stepped it up one size because of the long distance it has to travel back to the fuel filler neck.

Return line of the injection pump, I laid in a steel 5/16" line from the firewall to the tank with a length of either 5/16" or 3/8" Parker hose connecting the pump to the line and the end of the line to the fitting on top of the fuel tank.

So, reading between the lines here Norm, are you thinking the pumps are somehow creating a restriction?
If you're thinking that, I'd say no way. I have a 1/2" hose from the tank to the filter, then from the filter to the pumps. The pumps are set up in parallel but are easily drawn through. However, I did have both pumps on for the run time I have put on the motor. Then I have a 1/2" line to the lift pump. Mind you, that is a substantial size larger than the factory 5/16" or 3/8" lines, so I do not believe there is a lack in fuel supply.

Crazy question, in the lift pump, the spring is conical. Does the orientation of that spring matter?
This pump was one hungry diesel sold me for a VE application, which I converted by changing out the spring to the higher pressure P-Pump spring.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 09, 2015, 09:17:18 AM
First thing to do is dead head a gauge right before the p pump. If the pressure is good,  put it back together and put the gauge in the return line after the party pump, dead head.  If the pressure is OK then the pump is returning too much.
That's what I would do on a customer car.
...on my vehicle I would just gently pinch the return line off while running and see if the pressure rises.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


I have a fuel gage there right now, but tapped into the "T" fitting. It registers 5psi with kennedy pumps only, and a mere 10 psi with the motor stumbling and filling my house with unburned diesel smoke...

I did pull off the return pressure spring and visually check it. The plunger ball worked fine, spring was intact, I just didn't see anything wrong with it (Visually)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 09, 2015, 09:18:04 AM
Side note: This is a pretty good Cummins problem solving discussion we have going on at the moment
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 09, 2015, 09:21:30 AM
My two cents.  Get rid of the electric pumps completely.  Stock lift pump will support fuel for a whole lot of power.  The electric pumps are just not necessary unless you're building a crazy engine, sled pulling,  drag race etc and they just add complication. 
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
There is actually a lot of wisdom in that statement from a survival truck build perspective.
I did not realize the need for much higher pressure when I added the Kennedy pumps. I was thinking it was more like a VE motor and I didn't need a stock pump, or if it ever gage up the goat, the Kennedy's would carry my happy butt on to Nirvana!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on December 09, 2015, 09:38:19 AM
I have a fuel gage there right now, but tapped into the "T" fitting. It registers 5psi with kennedy pumps only, and a mere 10 psi with the motor stumbling and filling my house with unburned diesel smoke...

I did pull off the return pressure spring and visually check it. The plunger ball worked fine, spring was intact, I just didn't see anything wrong with it (Visually)

but that's not dead heading it. The ONLY way to know if the lift pump is capable of building pressure is to hook straight to the end of the hose and crank it over while watching the gauge. This will also tell you if the check valve is working (in the lift pump)
Title: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: husker77c on December 09, 2015, 09:41:03 AM
My two cents.  Get rid of the electric pumps completely.  Stock lift pump will support fuel for a whole lot of power.  The electric pumps are just not necessary unless you're building a crazy engine, sled pulling,  drag race etc and they just add complication. 
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
There is actually a lot of wisdom in that statement from a survival truck build perspective.
I did not realize the need for much higher pressure when I added the Kennedy pumps. I was thinking it was more like a VE motor and I didn't need a stock pump, or if it ever gage up the goat, the Kennedy's would carry my happy butt on to Nirvana!

That is my whole angle on these builds.  That's my first priority on my truck and all else is gravy. 

Your thinking is not off base though.  People building high HP trucks block off the factory pump and use electrics all the time so the theory is sound. 

If you want to keep the electrics it shouldn't be that hard to bypass them temporarily to see if that is causing your issue.  If not then run em how you've got them.  They can't hurt anything if they aren't causing a restriction.

I have read about engines that wouldn't run without a proper return.  When u said you had 1/4" return or maybe 5/16" I believe you should have 5/16".  That's what I have in the ford.  I Tee'd the pump and injector line return into one and tied that into my factory steel return line.   

Just more info for you.


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Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 09, 2015, 10:04:20 AM
Husker,

Keep it coming, anything you question

I'll properly and publically beat you up about the head and shoulders, but privately thank you!  :o

Naw, just funnin'

Return line is 5/16" on the pump return and 1/4" on the injector harness return. (After checkin')
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Nate on December 09, 2015, 12:26:24 PM
replace the junk pumps on cmax with the kennedy one
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on December 09, 2015, 12:39:35 PM
OK, so you have 5psi to the Mech Lift Pump. You need 20psi+ from there. Don't mess with the anything behind it, gauge it there like Ken said.

If you are getting 20+ from there with little or no return flow, I suspect the Ppump

Have you checked the cam timing, new cam right? So no issue with the pump lobe being flat. However, it would not be the first cam ground with the key off a few degrees. So even a timed pump to the cam would off for the motor timing maybe letting the engine run, but not well. Opening the valves wrong and dumping unburned fuel.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: DOOLEY on December 09, 2015, 12:48:36 PM
HEY DON, I'VE BEEN TALKING WITH LOCTITE ABOUT YOUR POST AND HE SAID THAT THE FACTORY CUMMINS MANUAL PUMP WOULD PUT OUT 20PSI, HE ALSO TOLD ME ABOUT SOMETHING HE HAD SEEN IN THE PAST THAT MAY BE PART OF YOUR PROBLEM, CUMMINS USES A INLINE FILTER BEFORE THE PUMP, (BUT) IT IS NOT A FILTER, ITS A SCREEN, HE HAS SEEN WHERE SOMEONE INSTALLED A FILTER INSTEAD OF A SCREEN AND IT CUT DOWN ON THE FLOW OF FUEL TO A POINT THAT IT DESTROYED THE INJ PUMP, SO WE WAS WONDERING IF YOU HAVE A INLINE FILTER BEFORE THE PUMP, IF SO REPLACE IT WITH AN INLINE SCREEN.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: rpar86 on December 09, 2015, 04:36:19 PM
We replaced the stock injectors back in the holes to see if that made any difference, but It didn't really. Perhaps, it was a tad bit easier to start, but it blew smoke like a white dog and still rattled and banged about.

We attached a fuel pressure gauge to the big T which splits the fuel entering the Pump into two routes, the stock one, and one from the front

With the Kennedy pumps running, both of them we were seeing about 5PSI pressure

Don, can you elaborate on the second line: "We attached a fuel pressure gauge to the big T which splits the fuel entering the Pump into two routes, the stock one, and one from the front"

Not sure what you mean by the bolded part.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 09, 2015, 06:03:33 PM
We replaced the stock injectors back in the holes to see if that made any difference, but It didn't really. Perhaps, it was a tad bit easier to start, but it blew smoke like a white dog and still rattled and banged about.

We attached a fuel pressure gauge to the big T which splits the fuel entering the Pump into two routes, the stock one, and one from the front

With the Kennedy pumps running, both of them we were seeing about 5PSI pressure

Don, can you elaborate on the second line: "We attached a fuel pressure gauge to the big T which splits the fuel entering the Pump into two routes, the stock one, and one from the front"

Not sure what you mean by the bolded part.

I am using this Vulcan Diesel fuel line kit which has a 1/8" NPT plug I am using in the middle of the "T" fitting:
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 09, 2015, 06:06:17 PM
HEY DON, I'VE BEEN TALKING WITH LOCTITE ABOUT YOUR POST AND HE SAID THAT THE FACTORY CUMMINS MANUAL PUMP WOULD PUT OUT 20PSI, HE ALSO TOLD ME ABOUT SOMETHING HE HAD SEEN IN THE PAST THAT MAY BE PART OF YOUR PROBLEM, CUMMINS USES A INLINE FILTER BEFORE THE PUMP, (BUT) IT IS NOT A FILTER, ITS A SCREEN, HE HAS SEEN WHERE SOMEONE INSTALLED A FILTER INSTEAD OF A SCREEN AND IT CUT DOWN ON THE FLOW OF FUEL TO A POINT THAT IT DESTROYED THE INJ PUMP, SO WE WAS WONDERING IF YOU HAVE A INLINE FILTER BEFORE THE PUMP, IF SO REPLACE IT WITH AN INLINE SCREEN.
Larry, I have a fuel filter/water separator combo plumbed in between the tank and the lift pump
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on December 09, 2015, 06:54:34 PM
I could see the little stock lift pump not pulling fuel through an after market pump/filter, but you have 5 psi to the (modified)stock LP, right?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Armalite on December 09, 2015, 08:15:09 PM
and after three pages, I now have a headache...  Keep plugging along Don...    :-\
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on December 09, 2015, 11:39:01 PM
and after three pages, I now have a headache...  Keep plugging along Don...    :-\


More pictures Big D! Words hurting his head...... :P
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on December 10, 2015, 09:12:47 AM
Don this may help....
(http://i.imgur.com/dcEYzVu.jpg)

I'd check fuel pressure at your "T" by the injection pump... then pinch of the overflow return and see if it jumps. Ya can't do this for for very long, but it will tell you if your system can make higher than 10 psi.

Ya can't tell by looking if the overflow valve spring is soft or not. Then again ya also can't tell how it's working if your down on fuel pressure. You could dead head the OEM lift pump with it's intake side in a bucket of fuel. This will eliminate the entire fuel system before the pump and give you a reading that will tell you if your lift pump is bad or not.

Again, don't look at anything else until you get correct fuel pressure to your injection pump. If it can't fill the barrels it can't maintain pop pressure, and it will not run correctly.









Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: swbhobie16 on December 11, 2015, 12:23:26 PM
running into something that sounds almost identical to yours. waiting on pins and needles to see what comes of this. haha
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 11, 2015, 04:09:17 PM
running into something that sounds almost identical to yours. waiting on pins and needles to see what comes of this. haha
Well the good news is you'll get plenty of practice working and tuning that Cummins!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: swbhobie16 on December 11, 2015, 04:13:54 PM
running into something that sounds almost identical to yours. waiting on pins and needles to see what comes of this. haha
Well the good news is you'll get plenty of practice working and tuning that Cummins!

i both hope and don't hope so! hahah. fortunately, as soon as i get back from NYC, having a guy i met on CL come to the house with fancy schmancy tools to help set timing, pop test injectors (90 horse aftermarkets) etc. he worked as a diesel tech for 25  years and teaches diesel mechanics at a local community college.. said he could hook me up (also buying a cummins block to build into a coffee table..)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 11, 2015, 04:22:42 PM
That'll be one "torquey table"  :o
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on December 11, 2015, 04:26:24 PM
Don.... all you need is a 5 gallon old steel jerry can...a valve stem and a couple fittings. Weld some bungs in for your fuel and return lines.... hook them up using rubber hose to the injection pump. Fill the can with #2, pressurize to 22psi with yr air compressor and start that truck......we need to get you up and running.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on December 11, 2015, 11:12:03 PM
That is way to simple Norm.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: swbhobie16 on December 12, 2015, 08:24:03 AM
looking back through the 100s of pages of the build, i noticed you have a fuel filter tucked up under the drivers side next to the trans. I'm wondering if thats whats causing your low fuel pressure issues. the stock pumps, even the higher HP ones, are designed (just from looking at various cummins engines) to be before the filters with only a pre filter screen to keep large mess out. the thought being you can 'push' water farther uphill than you can 'pull' it, and with greater pressure. almost wonder if you could move the filter head to a higher (and more out-of-the-way location for sticks and such) to the firewall somewhere, post pump, and solve your issue. I've even found a filter head that is heated with coolant from the engine. ill have to find it again, but its a bio fuel conversion favorite since it requires no electrical components to heat the fuel and uses standard fuel filters that can be had at any auto store and bought in bulk.

would hate to see you roll over a rock in a creek bed or primitive IED, hole in the sheet metal filter and leave you stranded in at the wrong time. hahah

plus, laying on the ground in the mud to change a filter just doesn't sound like a lot of fun. pop the hood and spin her off, loosely screw it back, prime the pump and fill the filter. done
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: swbhobie16 on December 12, 2015, 08:45:47 AM
That'll be one "torquey table"  :o

thats what I'm going for. i just want the block cleaned, painted probably cummins red. machined surfaces bare metal. cleaned aluminum oil filter housing and then tack all the gears from the oil pump, cam, crank, PS and IP in place on front. pistons sitting in the cylinders 'where they're supposed to be' but not connected to the crank or connecting rods. then a 2'x4' glass top to finish it off.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 12, 2015, 09:56:00 AM
Don.... all you need is a 5 gallon old steel jerry can...a valve stem and a couple fittings. Weld some bungs in for your fuel and return lines.... hook them up using rubber hose to the injection pump. Fill the can with #2, pressurize to 22psi with yr air compressor and start that truck......we need to get you up and running.
Love ya man...

(In a brotherly way...not that new wave progressive America way)

I'll get it running, and I REALLY appreciate all the help!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: wilsonphil on December 14, 2015, 04:18:48 PM
Hey Don since your build has slipped to the second page due to lack of activity I thought I would bring it back to the top so you could find it easy! 
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: EL TATE on December 14, 2015, 05:41:57 PM
ooh! shots fired!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on December 14, 2015, 06:22:23 PM
Would a soapy car wash help?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Bob/OlallaWa on December 14, 2015, 06:29:51 PM
OH Don, what say you?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Nate on December 14, 2015, 06:56:42 PM
for all we know, it got loaded on to his flatbed trailer and taken to the engine DR..................?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Sammconn on December 14, 2015, 11:42:49 PM
Or to the farm for some Tannerite treatments?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on December 15, 2015, 05:56:00 AM
I must say the level of DOT here is strong and best part I had nothing o do with it! ;D
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 15, 2015, 10:35:01 AM
Yea, well, it's Christmas, I have other things going on, and now that I've thrown hundreds of more dollars at it, it is still not running...

Ever built a house, just to have it fall into a sinkhole the next day?

I have lost a bit of interest in it because of all this, so best for me to just set it aside while I sort through what to do next.

I don't know about the fuel pump, don't know about the integrity of the P-Pump, it may have sent metal particles to 6 new injectors, I can't understand how it wouldn't have proper pressure. I did everything as right as rain using good parts...

Just too much. I'd better let it slip to page three or four with the way I feel about that motor right now...And the transmission is leaking profusely from somewhere...and I have some other pretty big issues. So yea...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on December 15, 2015, 10:38:47 AM
Cheer up buddy. It's all good. You know, I do believe after working on cars for 30 years or so, that satan shows himself in the form of vehicles!

Put it out of your mind and have a merry Christmas.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on December 15, 2015, 10:51:03 AM
I hear you Don. Things like this really get me thinking about maybe I should have listened to Norm and kept the VE. Then us guys giving you a hard time at every corner like good DOTs.

I am WAY over budget for Christmas. Then with scouts we do food drives and get presents for kids, caroling and the lot.

Have to ask though, did you verify the cam timing?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: wilsonphil on December 15, 2015, 12:22:24 PM
Yea, well, it's Christmas, I have other things going on, and now that I've thrown hundreds of more dollars at it, it is still not running...

Ever built a house, just to have it fall into a sinkhole the next day?

I have lost a bit of interest in it because of all this, so best for me to just set it aside while I sort through what to do next.

I don't know about the fuel pump, don't know about the integrity of the P-Pump, it may have sent metal particles to 6 new injectors, I can't understand how it wouldn't have proper pressure. I did everything as right as rain using good parts...

Just too much. I'd better let it slip to page three or four with the way I feel about that motor right now...And the transmission is leaking profusely from somewhere...and I have some other pretty big issues. So yea...

100% understand, you will get it resolved.  Taking a step back is good and you can tell people like me to pack sand until you get it fixed
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 15, 2015, 12:28:36 PM
I hear you Don. Things like this really get me thinking about maybe I should have listened to Norm and kept the VE. Then us guys giving you a hard time at every corner like good DOTs.

I am WAY over budget for Christmas. Then with scouts we do food drives and get presents for kids, caroling and the lot.

Have to ask though, did you verify the cam timing?
No, I haven't

Everytime I check something on this motor I find it is done correctly. Bolt torques, pump timing and so forth.

A well known Dat diesel mech assembled this motor for his brother's kid. It is done right. Now I could spend more frustrating time and money tearing off the front cover, scratching up the paint, running another gasket and so forth, but I feel that is a waste of time.

I think it is something simple. I think it is related to fuel pressure, and looking at it, I am miffed as to why the setup I have doesn't work.

When we checked pump timing. The builder told me, and wrote down the timing was 12.5 degrees. We found the timing to be 12.5 degrees, just like he said. Everything looks right everywhere...I'm not tearing off the front cover and wasting time. Just need to figure out how to get the fuel pressure right.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 15, 2015, 12:33:47 PM
Yea, well, it's Christmas, I have other things going on, and now that I've thrown hundreds of more dollars at it, it is still not running...

Ever built a house, just to have it fall into a sinkhole the next day?

I have lost a bit of interest in it because of all this, so best for me to just set it aside while I sort through what to do next.

I don't know about the fuel pump, don't know about the integrity of the P-Pump, it may have sent metal particles to 6 new injectors, I can't understand how it wouldn't have proper pressure. I did everything as right as rain using good parts...

Just too much. I'd better let it slip to page three or four with the way I feel about that motor right now...And the transmission is leaking profusely from somewhere...and I have some other pretty big issues. So yea...

100% understand, you will get it resolved.  Taking a step back is good and you can tell people like me to pack sand until you get it fixed
I wouldn't say that

And so everyone knows this is not a big deal with me.

God may be showing me something.

Something about idols in our lives.

Square D has been a bunch of fun for all of us, but it is just a truck, nothing more. As long as it draws folks which might get fellowshipped with lovers of Jesus, then it serves a useful purpose.
But the very second it or any of our trucks become really important to us, or they exhault one of us to others, then at that second, they become a tool for evil.

I'll burn that truck to the ground and salt the ground before I let it dominate my life, before I worship it, before I EVER place it before the holy one.

But, if it will serve his purposes, then perhaps he will let me figure out the issue.

So, Don's OK with it...its only a truck...his plan and building into your lives are all much more important that some OD green square fendered relic, or for that matter, the relic building it!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: EL TATE on December 15, 2015, 01:39:59 PM
Sometimes it takes a stumble to stay humble. We know where you stand, I think we're just cheering from the bleachers here with one bad eye and can't see nothin' with the other.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Dawg25385 on December 15, 2015, 01:43:55 PM
Well we're all pullin for ya boss. It's just a truck, true. You've also put in a lot of time into the ole girl, and we want to see you succeed   ;)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on December 15, 2015, 02:16:08 PM
Thanks...I'm OK

Better news...We wrote a pretty big check to those Christian Refugee kids for Christmas. Thanks to those of you who gave. I'll post up pics when we give them the stuff!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cudakidd53 on December 15, 2015, 03:12:39 PM
Thanks...I'm OK

Better news...We wrote a pretty big check to those Christian Refugee kids for Christmas. Thanks to those of you who gave. I'll post up pics when we give them the stuff!

Those will be some of the best photo's posted, I'll bet!  ;)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on December 15, 2015, 04:39:11 PM
Grandpa used to say if you didn't make mistakes you weren't doing anything.....
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on December 16, 2015, 12:19:17 AM
I remember lining up woodruff keys vs index keys on my first SBC build. Luckily someone caught it before the cover was on,,,,,,,,,,,,

True, just a truck. But really it represents a part of you with how you put it together. This part is just like other things when you stumble before you gain your footing.

Looking forward to the pictures.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Sammconn on December 16, 2015, 04:19:57 PM
You'll get 'er running right chief!

Take a break, step back and enjoy Christmas.

Then get back to the grind and find the problem.
I'm sure its something simple...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on January 05, 2016, 11:49:20 AM
Any updates here?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on January 05, 2016, 12:25:51 PM
Christmas is over....move out!!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on January 05, 2016, 04:59:52 PM
To bad we can't have assembly or reveille play when the window opens,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on January 05, 2016, 07:28:37 PM
About to get something happening

Time to get back to it
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: swbhobie16 on January 05, 2016, 07:41:06 PM
when we got ours running, we only had 2 rubber hoses (supply to lift pump and return from IP) running into a 1 gallon jug of diesel. it was literally sitting in a wooden cradle in the driveway. may could try the same, at least to rule out your pre lift pump filters causing low fuel pressure..
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on January 05, 2016, 07:59:43 PM
I'm pulling for you Big D. I know you won't let this whoop ya!


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Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Atkinsmatt on January 05, 2016, 08:02:28 PM
To bad we can't have assembly or reveille play when the window opens,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Remember the picture of aviation warrants prepared for pt.  He wouldn't remember what the bugle calls were.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Sammconn on January 05, 2016, 08:02:53 PM
when we got ours running, we only had 2 rubber hoses (supply to lift pump and return from IP) running into a 1 gallon jug of diesel. it was literally sitting in a wooden cradle in the driveway. may could try the same, at least to rule out your pre lift pump filters causing low fuel pressure..
This, might be a good re-start point.
Dirt simple, and eliminates everything not used to 'run'.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on January 05, 2016, 10:23:38 PM
when we got ours running, we only had 2 rubber hoses (supply to lift pump and return from IP) running into a 1 gallon jug of diesel. it was literally sitting in a wooden cradle in the driveway. may could try the same, at least to rule out your pre lift pump filters causing low fuel pressure..
That is my next step. All this talk now has me wondering about that fuel filter I selected. Maybe it's restrictive, who knows???
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on January 05, 2016, 10:46:50 PM
Getting back to simple and basic is always a good route when you've been stumped for a bit. Time to regroup and kick this thing in the rear we know you'll get it figured out.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: swbhobie16 on January 05, 2016, 10:52:53 PM
when we got ours running, we only had 2 rubber hoses (supply to lift pump and return from IP) running into a 1 gallon jug of diesel. it was literally sitting in a wooden cradle in the driveway. may could try the same, at least to rule out your pre lift pump filters causing low fuel pressure..
That is my next step. All this talk now has me wondering about that fuel filter I selected. Maybe it's restrictive, who knows???

on our 4bt, 6bt and 175 kW Volvo penta generators (somewhere in the 8-10liter range) we run wix 33357 on the cummins and a 33357 and 33358 in series on the 175 kws. they are all block mounted, post lift pump. I think it goes back to them being able to push/maintain more pressure than the lift pump can suck through 2 filters and an electric pump (if I remembered your setup correctly)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: BobbyB on January 06, 2016, 01:54:48 AM
Remember the picture of aviation warrants prepared for pt.  He wouldn't remember what the bugle calls were.

To me that looks like the .0002 secs after a BN Co/ CSM decided to declare a ultra rare ZONK before a long muddy, rainy BN run in body armor, and fatigue pants..


Except there isn't a couple new guys looking around wondering what happened and where everyone disappeared to.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on January 12, 2016, 06:00:15 PM
The truck moved yesterday!

Yup

The boys and I pushed it ahead about 10 inches so we could close the garage door!

I think I am getting over being angry with it (Myself). Maybe I try and figure out what I was working on that caused me to get the hives every time I walked past it!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on January 12, 2016, 08:00:45 PM
Don, because I really like you, I'm willing to take it off your hands to save you the hassle..  I can be there with the trailer to pick it up this weekend...cause I'm your friend...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: swbhobie16 on January 12, 2016, 09:05:38 PM
he's only trying to help..
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on January 12, 2016, 10:21:37 PM
Really, I am.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: BobbyB on January 13, 2016, 02:34:35 AM
Generous offer.   ;D
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on January 13, 2016, 07:53:39 AM
I will share a motivational speech my Grandfather once gave me while I was angry with my 52 GMC pickup I at the time had just restored.

"So Norm a smart young man such as yourself is angry at a mechanical device? Isn't that admitting it's smarter than you, it's tougher than you, that you have lost to metal and combustibles that man created from nothing but an idea, drove for decades, and then left laying in a field because it no longer had a value to them? I am going down to the coffee shop to share this with my friends, it should be a good laugh. Wait until they hear you spent hundreds of hours painting it and making it just beautiful but your giving up on it running"  At which point he walked off laughing...stopped and mentioned that he bought that truck new and he never found it difficult to keep running...in fact it ran just fine when he parked it.

Now as a kid I fumed, probably called him names I'd only dare say in the silence of my mind, and even then felt guilty about. In the end he was correct so I made it run....

Now mind you, just last week I fired a 10mm wrench through the windshield of a old Dodge that annoyed me....so I learn slow LoL





 
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on January 13, 2016, 05:42:43 PM
I'm much more like the last paragraph^^^^ there, Norm!

Oh, and thanks Rec Neck for being a FRIEND
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on January 14, 2016, 02:02:52 PM
I'm here for you, Don.


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Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cj7ox on January 22, 2016, 03:36:57 PM
Don,

I began reading the various threads covering this build a couple weeks ago, when I joined the sight (I saw the thread on Square D on Expedition, which brought me to RMTW&S), and just got caught up. I'm amazed at the worksmanship! I am sure that this problem will get solved. Just a thought, but since you increased the diameter of all your fuel supply lines, could this not be a part of your pressure problem? Bigger lines flow more fuel, but also reduce pressure, at least by my understandings of Mr. Bernouli's principle. Whatever the problem is, I am sure you will figure it out! Maybe God is trying to give you the oportunity to learn how to figure out a problem you will face in the future?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on January 22, 2016, 06:15:08 PM
Don,

I began reading the various threads covering this build a couple weeks ago, when I joined the sight (I saw the thread on Square D on Expedition, which brought me to RMTW&S), and just got caught up. I'm amazed at the worksmanship! I am sure that this problem will get solved. Just a thought, but since you increased the diameter of all your fuel supply lines, could this not be a part of your pressure problem? Bigger lines flow more fuel, but also reduce pressure, at least by my understandings of Mr. Bernouli's principle. Whatever the problem is, I am sure you will figure it out! Maybe God is trying to give you the oportunity to learn how to figure out a problem you will face in the future?

I do think the problem is fuel pressure related
I just haven't had time to mess with it. I have been involved in a pretty big project which has sapped a lot of time.
Larger fuel lines do produce less pressure, however the whole thing is firewalled at the pressure relief valve at the outlet of the Injection pump. The electric and mechanical pumps will stack up pressure at that point equal to the pressure of the relief spring.

I am more suspect of the fuel filter I placed inline as a possible restriction. Maybe after I clear off this new snow fall I'll put some heat out there and bypass the thing as an experiment.

As for God interfering? Well if he is, then he has my permission and blessing. Maybe showing me that truck could have been a bit of an idol, don't know. I surely wouldn't it to be anything like that!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on January 23, 2016, 11:00:08 AM
God does work in funny to us ways. I personally am convinced God is showing the world why the VE pump has his blessing, and the P pump.... is evil.  :D

Don...enjoy the dusting of snow, and don't forget to play in it some, that is the best part of snow.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on January 23, 2016, 12:00:29 PM
Norm, how many PPump engines do you have?????????

I think it mechanical too. So many Ppump engine run very well.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on January 23, 2016, 12:25:52 PM
I saw the craziest thing the other day. A kit to outfit a Duramax with a P pump. 12,000.  Eek


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Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on January 23, 2016, 12:42:01 PM
God does work in funny to us ways. I personally am convinced God is showing the world why the VE pump has his blessing, and the P pump.... is evil.  :D

Don...enjoy the dusting of snow, and don't forget to play in it some, that is the best part of snow.
Already did!

And in hind sight, I think I would have stayed with the VE motor...Next time!

Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on January 23, 2016, 01:09:12 PM
Or. .....
Maybe stuck with Chebby.. 

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Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on January 23, 2016, 02:32:04 PM
Or. .....
Maybe stuck with Chebby.. 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Not unless it is stuck in the front yard!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on January 23, 2016, 02:50:37 PM
Or. .....
Maybe stuck with Chebby.. 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Not unless it is stuck in the front yard!

Or mulch at the local mall,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cudakidd53 on January 23, 2016, 04:05:25 PM
Or. .....
Maybe stuck with Chebby.. 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Not unless it is stuck in the front yard!

Or mulch at the local mall,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I thought Don's Cheby runs............. ???
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: BobbyB on January 23, 2016, 04:40:56 PM
And in hind sight, I think I would have stayed with the VE motor...Next time!

I do seem to remember telling you to stick with the stock motor, but NOOOO "someone" wanted to be special and put the more powerful, upgraded dangerous motor in..


Pilots... ??? ::)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on January 23, 2016, 04:59:39 PM
Norn said it to, as he did to me.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on January 24, 2016, 03:16:01 PM
And in hind sight, I think I would have stayed with the VE motor...Next time!

I do seem to remember telling you to stick with the stock motor, but NOOOO "someone" wanted to be special and put the more powerful, upgraded dangerous motor in..


Pilots... ??? ::)

Ok, OK, so you're right for once

This time Infantry 1 aviation 0

But there will be a next time!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on January 24, 2016, 03:58:28 PM
Contemplating swapping mine for a VE. With people wanting the P motors so bad I bet I could do it for free.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on February 03, 2016, 08:33:03 PM
I thought I'd type something here.... like the ole days.....
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on February 03, 2016, 09:48:55 PM
He ain't got time for this, new toy n all...... :D
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on February 03, 2016, 10:02:33 PM
I thought he had a commitment to us first?  I feel rejected, neglected...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on February 03, 2016, 10:11:22 PM
Ah, come on fellas!

I still love ya(s)

OK, OK, right after I figure out this building thing tomorrow, I'll turn a wrench on SquareD...fi my wrenches haven't rusted together into a solid mass!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on February 03, 2016, 11:08:38 PM
Honestly we just want to see you cross this project off your list. All the man hours & money spent & you're so close. Ash & I were discussing this today that if roles were reversed we'd have thrown the bank accounts at this to get it done........ So oil up those darned wrenches & get a move on already! ;D
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: wilsonphil on February 04, 2016, 12:26:38 AM
Ah, come on fellas!

I still love ya(s)

OK, OK, right after I figure out this building thing tomorrow, I'll turn a wrench on SquareD...fi my wrenches haven't rusted together into a solid mass!

I thought that TRN came and loaded it up on his trailer?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on February 04, 2016, 12:55:13 AM
Maybe we could auction it off? For charity of course  8)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on February 04, 2016, 08:16:06 AM
Ah, come on fellas!

I still love ya(s)

OK, OK, right after I figure out this building thing tomorrow, I'll turn a wrench on SquareD...fi my wrenches haven't rusted together into a solid mass!

I thought that TRN came and loaded it up on his trailer?
He threatened to!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cudakidd53 on February 04, 2016, 01:23:18 PM
We love ya Don- but Square D is like the gestation period of an Elephant- we wanna see it BORN, taking a few steps into a mulch bed, hauling some new parts for your next project, your boys jumping brush piles in it they've created with Big Red.........The Real Man Hooten-nany, Lead Fest and Chili Cook-off "coming out" party for it......Spring is almost in the AIR!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Tedram on February 04, 2016, 03:44:33 PM
I come here everyday looking for movement, nothing day after day since the 24th of Jan. Then today when I clicked in the Build threads.......... nothing but a tease..... Oh, the agony....
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on February 04, 2016, 04:02:10 PM
DOT presence is strong here on this thread......
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on February 04, 2016, 04:52:10 PM
I come here everyday looking for movement, nothing day after day since the 24th of Jan. Then today when I clicked in the Build threads.......... nothing but a tease..... Oh, the agony....

No tease here, just the Big Players. The 'Ol Dodge is just a distraction. :)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on February 04, 2016, 05:31:19 PM
You boyz have been busy!

I was down at the farm all day freezin' my buttox off, thank you very much. Will report activities over on hide site thread...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on February 04, 2016, 06:58:29 PM
May the DOT's be with you,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,or SD  ::)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on February 04, 2016, 07:05:51 PM
Ah, come on fellas!

I still love ya(s)

OK, OK, right after I figure out this building thing tomorrow, I'll turn a wrench on SquareD...fi my wrenches haven't rusted together into a solid mass!

I thought that TRN came and loaded it up on his trailer?
He threatened to!


I was just trying to help.  I got mine rolling under its own power....still a few more details to work out.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cj7ox on February 19, 2016, 02:30:36 PM
I hear a rumor that Square D was sighted for sale on CL! I heard BD was willing to make an even trade on a Toyota Prius in good condition!!!  :o
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: BobbyB on February 19, 2016, 04:32:47 PM
I hear a rumor that Square D was sighted for sale on CL! I heard BD was willing to make an even trade on a Toyota Prius in good condition!!!  :o

I heard it was a Kia..  ;D
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cj7ox on February 19, 2016, 04:55:03 PM
I hear a rumor that Square D was sighted for sale on CL! I heard BD was willing to make an even trade on a Toyota Prius in good condition!!!  :o

I heard it was a Kia..  ;D

I'd take a Kia over a Prius, but it is still discouraging... :'(

I mean, he didn't even offer it to RMT&S members first!?! Straight to CL???  >:(  ;)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on February 19, 2016, 05:53:13 PM
I hear a rumor that Square D was sighted for sale on CL! I heard BD was willing to make an even trade on a Toyota Prius in good condition!!!  :o

I heard it was a Kia..  ;D

Neg, Hyundai.....
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: BobbyB on February 19, 2016, 07:11:28 PM
Neg, Hyundai.....

I heard he really preferred a Smart car, or failing that a Tesla electric car.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on February 19, 2016, 07:55:47 PM
Nah, I think maybe one of those lifted & suped up electric golf carts......
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on February 20, 2016, 01:06:31 AM
Nah, I think maybe one of those lifted & suped up electric golf carts......

I had one of those, it was a blast!!!

I know, A built up lifted Dodge pickup,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on February 20, 2016, 07:27:49 AM
Maybe he's into leaf blower powered skateboards. That would be more of an equal trade. .

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on February 20, 2016, 10:07:29 AM
Those skate boards with the weed eater motors might be a good choice or maybe a hover board?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on February 20, 2016, 10:13:08 AM
I feel some pink slips coming.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on February 20, 2016, 10:42:44 AM
Negative, ol Big D knew what he was getting when he hired us! We were the head of the DOT nation, if he fires us it shows a failure on his part & this pilut never fails, please disregard the SQ D project at this time when reflecting upon that last statement.... ???
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on February 20, 2016, 12:55:27 PM
My fingertips are burning,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on February 20, 2016, 06:42:40 PM
You boys have been prudy busy...AGAIN...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on February 20, 2016, 07:21:12 PM
Danka
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on February 20, 2016, 09:55:18 PM
Danka
Bitte'
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on February 22, 2016, 08:46:24 AM
Don...have you hugged your truck recently?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on February 22, 2016, 09:57:29 AM
Don...have you hugged your truck recently?
You busy? Wanna take a swing at it?

I'm still flustered by it, although have been wanting to generate some sparks on it with the welder...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cj7ox on February 22, 2016, 11:42:39 AM
I'm still flustered by it, although have been wanting to generate some sparks on it with the welder...

I hope that doesn't mean you want to turn it into slag!  :o
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on February 22, 2016, 12:06:18 PM
I'm still flustered by it, although have been wanting to generate some sparks on it with the welder...

I hope that doesn't mean you want to turn it into slag!  :o

Nah, nothing like that.

Not in the grenade mode yet.

Still have hopes and aspirations of driving one seriously menacing form in someone's rear view mirror some day!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on February 22, 2016, 03:37:34 PM
I'm still flustered by it, although have been wanting to generate some sparks on it with the welder...

I hope that doesn't mean you want to turn it into slag!  :o

Still have hopes and aspirations of driving one seriously menacing form in someone's rear view mirror some day!

Will it be towed?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: wilsonphil on February 22, 2016, 06:00:44 PM
I'm still flustered by it, although have been wanting to generate some sparks on it with the welder...

I hope that doesn't mean you want to turn it into slag!  :o

Still have hopes and aspirations of driving one seriously menacing form in someone's rear view mirror some day!

Will it be towed?

Now that is funny.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on February 22, 2016, 08:50:57 PM
You people are turning mean!

Well, I almost worked on it today! Had planned to, but the three bike projects went long and I needed to get on my Habanero Chipotle Chicken and twice baked spuds for the mini-Rangers.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Nate on February 22, 2016, 09:06:01 PM
we know of 2 bike projects, whats this third that you speak of?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: BobbyB on February 23, 2016, 02:50:17 AM
You people are turning mean!

the three bike projects went long

and I needed to get on my Habanero Chipotle Chicken

I'm listening.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: rpar86 on February 23, 2016, 03:09:46 AM

we know of 2 bike projects, whats this third that you speak of?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

A bicycle maybe? ;)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cj7ox on February 23, 2016, 10:29:20 AM
we know of 2 bike projects, whats this third that you speak of?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Maybe he decided to start on a new 12v Cummins powered SHTF EOTWAWKI survival/assault hover motorcycle?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: husker77c on February 23, 2016, 11:08:17 AM

Neg, Hyundai.....

I heard he really preferred a Smart car, or failing that a Tesla electric car.

Teslas are coooool.  They had one on display in a mall we were in.  If my ship ever comes in I'll own one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: EL TATE on February 23, 2016, 11:12:03 AM
apparently the ships have arrived for quite a few folks out my way. I see these things all the time and commute with a couple towards Boeing every morning. I have seen them zip off pdq and I have to say they are very impressive for what they are.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cj7ox on February 23, 2016, 11:27:00 AM
They look cool, and are pretty quick, but I heard their range sucks. Only something like 150-200 miles before you have to recharge for 8 hrs. Not an issue really for city dwellers, but it is not something you could go on a road trip with.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on February 23, 2016, 11:29:31 AM
You see em all over here. Moved alot of stuff to nv but still made in ca.

You know they are self drive now if you are lazy.

And you get dedicated parking............
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cj7ox on February 23, 2016, 11:45:16 AM
You know they are self drive now if you are lazy.

That's scary! Is the self drive system produced by Cyberdyne?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: EL TATE on February 23, 2016, 04:23:46 PM
You know they are self drive now if you are lazy.

That's scary! Is the self drive system produced by Cyberdyne?

Cyberdyne and SkyNet working together for the ultimate in driver replacement, er I mean, comfort. Yeah that!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cj7ox on February 23, 2016, 04:56:27 PM
You know they are self drive now if you are lazy.

That's scary! Is the self drive system produced by Cyberdyne?

Cyberdyne and SkyNet working together for the ultimate in driver replacement, er I mean, comfort. Yeah that!

 :o John Connor, where are you!?!?!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on February 23, 2016, 05:58:53 PM
I think it's official SQ D must have rusted or fallen apart & is absolutely destroyed at this point....... :'(
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cj7ox on February 23, 2016, 06:26:10 PM
I think it's official SQ D must have rusted or fallen apart & is absolutely destroyed at this point....... :'(
Any day now, a sufficient gust of air will blow the dust off of her, causing BD to discover that SDs only structural integrity (due to neglect) was said dust, as she disintegrates into a large pile of particles on the garage floor.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on February 23, 2016, 06:35:34 PM
OK, so I started on Square D today. Then immediately my neighbor came over and borrowed the battery charger sitting on it, so I stopped working on it!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cj7ox on February 23, 2016, 06:52:15 PM
OK, so I started on Square D today. Then immediately my neighbor came over and borrowed the battery charger sitting on it, so I stopped working on it!
It's a sad state of affairs when a battery charger is required for fluid change work.  ;)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Wilbur on February 23, 2016, 08:05:59 PM
:o John Connor, where are you!?!?!

"I'll be back"....said Don to SD....
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on February 24, 2016, 12:25:31 AM
Seems simple to just put a jug of diesel up on the cowl and run it right to the pump,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Oh wait, is the battery dead already?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on February 24, 2016, 08:07:21 AM

OK, so I started on Square D today. Then immediately my neighbor came over and borrowed the battery charger sitting on it, so I stopped working on it!
Pics or it didn't happen


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on February 24, 2016, 09:54:33 AM
Told ya it was in shambles, he's now using it as tool storage sitting charger on it......
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on March 04, 2016, 09:29:17 AM
start it upstart it upstart it upstart it upstart it upstart it upstart it upstart it upstart it upstart it upstart it up start it up start it up start it up start it up start it up
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on March 04, 2016, 09:36:21 AM
start it upstart it upstart it upstart it upstart it upstart it upstart it upstart it upstart it upstart it upstart it up start it up start it up start it up start it up start it up
Can't find my reading glasses...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on March 04, 2016, 09:53:39 AM
You need reading glasses to find sq d?!? Boy, it must be in worse shape than I thought.....
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cj7ox on March 04, 2016, 01:56:59 PM
THIS JUST IN: SQUARE D AFFECTED BY TERRORIST SHRINK RAY ATTACK! OWNER BIG D UNABLE TO LOCATE PROJECT VEHICLE DUE TO LACK OF READING GLASSES! TERRORIST ORGINIZATION OL'KIA DISCOVERS WORK-AROUND TO DESTROY "EMP PROOF" VEHICLE BY SUCCESSFULLY DEVELOPING SHRINK RAY!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on March 04, 2016, 02:20:02 PM
LMAOROFL
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Nate on March 04, 2016, 03:15:08 PM
oh my, sean found the scrolling button................smh
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cj7ox on March 04, 2016, 03:40:14 PM
oh my, sean found the scrolling button................smh
I figured it was quite appropriate for a "cable news style" breaking news scroll.  ;D
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on March 04, 2016, 04:08:04 PM
bAHhahahahah
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: BobbyB on March 04, 2016, 05:47:16 PM
Oh snap.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cudakidd53 on March 04, 2016, 10:30:38 PM
SquareD is a feint.........Don is secretly an Amway salesman and we're all his new customer base! 
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on March 05, 2016, 12:01:37 AM
Offer to come tow it off still stands, Don.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Sammconn on March 06, 2016, 04:52:53 PM
Seemed like a pretty fitting CNN style report!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cj7ox on March 07, 2016, 01:59:02 PM
SquareD is a feint.........Don is secretly an Amway salesman and we're all his new customer base!

THIS JUST IN...ANONYMOUS REPORTS FROM THE FIELD INDICATE THE SQUARE D BUILD IS A HOAX! OUR FIELD REPORTERS HAVE UNCOVERED CONVINCING INFORMATION THAT THE SD PROJECT WAS NOTHING MORE THAN AN UNDERHANDED ATTEMPT TO DRAW CUSTOMERS TO THE REAL MAN TRUCKWORKS & SURVIVAL WEB-FORUM! FORUM OWNER/OPERATOR, DON "BIG D" HARWARD, IS UNAVAILABLE FOR COMMENT! CONSPIRACY THEORISTS BELIEVE THIS TRUCK BUILD IS IN THE CATEGORY AS THE "SUPPOSED" MOON LANDINGS!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Nate on March 07, 2016, 07:54:52 PM
ROFLMFAO!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cj7ox on March 07, 2016, 08:01:15 PM
 ;D :o 8)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on March 08, 2016, 04:08:15 AM
You need reading glasses to find sq d?!? Boy, it must be in worse shape than I thought.....

Well, with all that rain and SD being OD it may blend in some.

Moon landing, why not it is supposed to run,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cj7ox on March 15, 2016, 04:22:35 PM
THIS JUST IN, SD TO BE SOLD IN ORDER TO PROVIDE FUNDS FOR OBSCURE WOODWORKING BISQUIT MAKER! OWNER DON "BIG D" HARWARD UNAVAILABLE FOR COMMENT, BUT IS RUMORED TO BE ABANDONING ALL MOTORIZED 4 WHEEL VEHICLE BASED PROJECTS IN FAVOR OF CUSTOM CABINETRY! LOCAL INTERNET SOURCES OF SUSPECT RELIABILITY THEORIZE THAT HE IS TAKING HIS EMP PROOF PLANS TO EXTREME, AND SUBSCRIBING TO AMISH MODES OF TRANSPORTATION! EOTWAWKI EMP-PROOF-COMBAT-HORSE-AND-BUGGY-EXTREME-SURVIVAL MACHINE IN THE WORKS!  ;D
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: rpar86 on March 15, 2016, 04:28:55 PM
THIS JUST IN, SD TO BE SOLD IN ORDER TO PROVIDE FUNDS FOR OBSCURE WOODWORKING BISQUIT MAKER! OWNER DON "BIG D" HARWARD UNAVAILABLE FOR COMMENT, BUT IS RUMORED TO BE ABANDONING ALL MOTORIZED 4 WHEEL VEHICLE BASED PROJECTS IN FAVOR OF CUSTOM CABINETRY! LOCAL INTERNET SOURCES OF SUSPECT RELIABILITY THEORIZE THAT HE IS TAKING HIS EMP PROOF PLANS TO EXTREME, AND SUBSCRIBING TO AMISH MODES OF TRANSPORTATION! EOTWAWKI EMP-PROOF-COMBAT-HORSE-AND-BUGGY-EXTREME-SURVIVAL MACHINE IN THE WORKS!  ;D

LOL!!!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on March 15, 2016, 04:39:26 PM
Being in the position I am in, a Supreme Global Moderator, and being the reserved and sophisticated man that I am, won't allow me to find your antics humorous nor comment on them.
Giving the Boss a hard time is just not in my DNA.














hehehehehe :)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cj7ox on March 15, 2016, 04:52:55 PM
Being in the position I am in, a Supreme Global Moderator, and being the reserved and sophisticated man that I am, won't allow me to find your antics humorous nor comment on them.
Giving the Boss a hard time is just not in my DNA.














hehehehehe :)
:o ::) :-X :D
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: swbhobie16 on March 15, 2016, 05:01:33 PM
THIS JUST IN, SD TO BE SOLD IN ORDER TO PROVIDE FUNDS FOR OBSCURE WOODWORKING BISQUIT MAKER! OWNER DON "BIG D" HARWARD UNAVAILABLE FOR COMMENT, BUT IS RUMORED TO BE ABANDONING ALL MOTORIZED 4 WHEEL VEHICLE BASED PROJECTS IN FAVOR OF CUSTOM CABINETRY! LOCAL INTERNET SOURCES OF SUSPECT RELIABILITY THEORIZE THAT HE IS TAKING HIS EMP PROOF PLANS TO EXTREME, AND SUBSCRIBING TO AMISH MODES OF TRANSPORTATION! EOTWAWKI EMP-PROOF-COMBAT-HORSE-AND-BUGGY-EXTREME-SURVIVAL MACHINE IN THE WORKS!  ;D


can't believe it just read that whole thing. hahaah
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on March 15, 2016, 06:01:36 PM
(http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/2FB/popcorn_zps9xbq1f5d.jpg) (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/2FB/media/popcorn_zps9xbq1f5d.jpg.html)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on March 15, 2016, 08:11:34 PM
I feel bad for firing Ken earlier...The man is loyal...unlike the rest of these common rabble, numbskulls hanging around here!

So Kasich is leading in the Ohio...Wow!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on March 15, 2016, 08:36:28 PM
You get bcm's email on kaisich today? Apparently he's buddy buddy with Kens gf....... ::)

Now I've decided as far as SQ d goes I'm done talking about it because it no longer exists or at least that's my story for now......
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on March 15, 2016, 10:11:32 PM
You get bcm's email on kaisich today? Apparently he's buddy buddy with Kens gf....... ::)

Now I've decided as far as SQ d goes I'm done talking about it because it no longer exists or at least that's my story for now......
I'm just too busy with everything else to be able to sac a bunch of days on SquareD right now. I'd have liked to get in and finish the rear long spring conversion, but I am about topped out with time allocation. There was a big something I was working on since fall which seems to have gone quiet for the moment so between spring time clean up, farm work and everything else, there might be a time soon to work on that truck. It will be fins sitting there for now...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on March 16, 2016, 10:48:25 AM
I was binge watching "Evolution" last night and thought about diesel trucks? They did get a old steam engine going and the gun issue was interesting.

Thought about how SD would fit right into this scenario. Plus it would be a prime target near any population.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Tedram on April 28, 2016, 01:05:53 PM
Just thought I would BUMP this up to the top of the build thread, it was getting hard to find.......... hint hint
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: moto123 on April 28, 2016, 01:18:28 PM
I think square D must have been upgraded to "lawn ornament status"  ;)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on April 28, 2016, 03:31:25 PM
Well, besides the bumping I just made it a sticky,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 04, 2016, 02:36:16 PM
So I started with a couple hours of cleaning up scads of dog and cat hair and dead bugs, leaves and everything I didn't want to mess with over the winter.

I kept looking at the truck the whole time

Then I crawled underside.

First thing I noticed was a cool looking truck
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 04, 2016, 02:37:44 PM
Then I spied the flat front springs! ERRRRRRR!!!!!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 04, 2016, 02:39:10 PM
Then I got to looking at the fuel pumps, fuel filter and lines

So since I was there I pulled the engine supply line off the filter and placed it directly onto the fuel pump outlet
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 04, 2016, 02:40:02 PM
Then this happened:
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on May 04, 2016, 02:48:21 PM
ITS ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sounds good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on May 04, 2016, 02:50:09 PM
That is awesome, now tell me it moved under its own power, just a little. So, you bypassed the stock lift pump and here you are?

DR looks lonely and dusty.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 04, 2016, 03:10:29 PM
DR about to get new tires!

No, it didn't move. No brakes. Need to solve that puzzle, then play with the transmission. Still lots of things not hooked up because I don't know how to just yet.

Yes, I just plumbed around the fuel filter and it started smoking like always, but then started to clear. I let it run for 15 minutes and it wasn't smoking at all for maybe the last 10 minutes of running. Has a bit of an accleration miss. I believe the fuel pressure is still way low, so have to address that next
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 04, 2016, 03:12:03 PM
Shows fuel pressure idling, accelerating and running at maybe 2,500-3,000 RPM
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 04, 2016, 03:14:20 PM
Doesn't seem like the stock lift pump is producing enough pressure???

Engine holds good oil pressure, and the fuel quantity gage works as does the ammeter, but the water temp is no-worky
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on May 04, 2016, 03:15:09 PM
So that is from the lift pumps? That is a solid number.

3000 rpm, DRIVE THAT PUP!!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 04, 2016, 03:15:43 PM
HMMM, bad pics!

Well the overhead shows both batteries getting a strong charge
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 04, 2016, 03:17:14 PM
So that is from the lift pumps? That is a solid number.

3000 rpm, DRIVE THAT PUP!!
That is after the kennedy lift pumps,

AND

The stock lift pump!

That is NOT a good numba for after the stock mechanical pump!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 04, 2016, 03:18:40 PM
Red Dog cruisin' the A.O. for a tasty screw driver!

Despite all the dust, red dogs, and other bad, bad things, the truck lives!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cj7ox on May 04, 2016, 03:19:59 PM
THIS JUST IN! Reliable sources report that Square D has been brought to life! It is no longer suffering from neglect and the degrading affects of excessive dust collection! Reports indicate that the beautifully engineered Cummins powerplant has successfully started, despite an exorbitant lack of attention and almost destructively abusive environment! Hopefully this is an indicator that the owner, Mr. Harward, has decided to actually finish this project prior to the EOTWAWKI!  ;D
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on May 04, 2016, 03:24:19 PM
Shouldn't the stock lift pump show about 30psi as rpm goes up? That should be a simple fix.

Front springs, what is the lift on those?
 
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 04, 2016, 03:35:24 PM
Shouldn't the stock lift pump show about 30psi as rpm goes up? That should be a simple fix.

Front springs, what is the lift on those?
 

I don't get that at all

Fuel pressure is the same at any RPM???

Almost as if the stock lift pump is not working at all

Now this has me thinking

Does the stock lift pump have a pushrod that runs it off the cam or does it just run straight off the camshaft?

Did Don forget to put that push rod back into the engine???
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on May 04, 2016, 03:41:31 PM
Didn't you add a spacer to that as well? Pretty sure it runs off the cam.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on May 04, 2016, 03:45:09 PM
Yup
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 04, 2016, 04:06:48 PM
I just found that diagram as well.

Yes I added the spacer.

I wonder if I need to prime the pump, by pushing on the prime button several times or something?

This has me scratching my head
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on May 04, 2016, 04:41:32 PM
Awesome news Boss!!

Priming it won't help since the other pumps have forced fuel thru it already.

There's a chance that the plunger is stuck "in". On a cummins lift pump, they pump on the "return" stroke. I would loosen the pump, bump the engine slowly, and see if the pump 'rocks" back and forth. That will tell us if the plunger is contacting the camshaft lobe....or.... pull it off and get out some measuring devices to see if it's stuck.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 04, 2016, 05:11:35 PM
We may recall that I pulled it apart to install the heavier spring some time ago. I'm frying brain cells to sty and figure out if I left something out or amiss, but I don't think so.

But if the pressure doesn't change, that pump can't be working!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 04, 2016, 05:12:29 PM
Oh, and I ran across a short article that I just posted down in the RM data base about how to wire out the computer in these stone age Dodges
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 04, 2016, 06:08:45 PM
OK, i ran it again.

At idle it is showing 10 psi pressure. Now as I rev it the pressure climbs to around 15 psi.

So

The fuel pump/lift pump is working

But

The pressure is much less than it should be

So, still thinking it through
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on May 04, 2016, 06:38:35 PM
Don.... you must have a five gallon can you can use for fuel? Just run the mechanical lift pump off that temp like and see what happens to your fuel pressure. It will take maybe 30 min tops...you will have isolated the issue completely by doing that.

Your this close man
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on May 04, 2016, 06:58:08 PM
What he said^^^. That way you can see what the lift is doing without interference from ANYTHING else.

Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on May 04, 2016, 07:11:35 PM
Bleed it and I like what Ken said. With the spacer did it come with a longer piston?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: swbhobie16 on May 04, 2016, 07:56:44 PM
it would stand to reason that with the spacer in between the pump and block, it would shorten your stroke, giving you pressure, and changing pressure with increased RPM, but not your full stroke.. do not your full potential fuel PSI.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cudakidd53 on May 04, 2016, 08:11:54 PM
^^^^^^what he said^^^^^ clicked in my head when I read "spacer"
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: swbhobie16 on May 04, 2016, 09:09:57 PM
also.. I can't get the vid to work :/ hahah.

awesome to hear it's running!!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: swbhobie16 on May 04, 2016, 09:22:05 PM
rebuild kit may have been universal.. and the spacer could be for a fuel heater delete on a 2nd gen (the heater bracket sits behind the pump). springs would be the same.. but plungers would be different lengths..    ??? 

just guessing.. hahah
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 04, 2016, 09:54:27 PM
Don.... you must have a five gallon can you can use for fuel? Just run the mechanical lift pump off that temp like and see what happens to your fuel pressure. It will take maybe 30 min tops...you will have isolated the issue completely by doing that.

Your this close man
Now, why would I need to rewire off a 5 gal fuel can?

Makes no sense

I am coming off the tank through two Kennedy lift pumps whick by themselves supply around 8 psi fuel to the lift pump. I'd have even less pressure if I went around them!

How could lift pumps, designed to feed a diesel engine be a restriction?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 04, 2016, 10:00:37 PM
Bleed it and I like what Ken said. With the spacer did it come with a longer piston?
You cannot run the lift pump with out either the fuel heater flange or a spacer.

Perhaps the gentleman who sent me the replacement spring sent the wrong one, but I can say that the replacement spring was thicker and more resistance that the VE spring that was in there.

Nah, that's not it...

Things that are suspect to me are
1. The dual inlet fuel line I used
2. A very loud "Crack" sound when I was pulling the front plug out of the Bosch injection Pump
3. The pressure relief valve on the return side of the pump possibly has failed
4. The lift pump is the wrong unit altogether.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on May 04, 2016, 10:02:36 PM
He means take the supply (suction) hose off the mechanical pump, and stick it in the bucket. That eliminates everything back to the tank and will tell us what the lift pump is doing, pressure wise.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: swbhobie16 on May 04, 2016, 10:08:18 PM
I'll double check my '89, but I don't think there is a spacer at all between the fuel pump and block.

if it doesn't, and you have a factory VE lift pump with spacer, you'd be operating at the very bottom end of its stroke. so you're missing 3/16" of stroke..? so the reading you're getting is just from the Kennedy pumps pushing fuel through the block lift pump?

I'm just shooting in the dark here.. hahah
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 04, 2016, 10:12:44 PM
I'll double check my '89, but I don't think there is a spacer at all between the fuel pump and block.

if it doesn't, and you have a factory VE lift pump with spacer, you'd be operating at the very bottom end of its stroke. so you're missing 3/16" of stroke..? so the reading you're getting is just from the Kennedy pumps pushing fuel through the block lift pump?

I'm just shooting in the dark here.. hahah
I think that may be it really

Your 89 has a completely different design pump than I have or is used on a P-Pump engine. Apples/oranges thing...

I purchased this pump for my VE motor

The pump is intended for a P-Pump engine though, and is used as a high performance alternative for the earlier VE motors.

It was designed to be run with a spacer, and the guy selling it replaces the high pressure spring with a lower press unit to be VE friendly.

So I simply installed the original spring and bolted it on. From everything I can tell, the pump requires the spacer to stroke properly...

However

I am not sure since it started as this VE hi-po pump
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: swbhobie16 on May 04, 2016, 10:29:27 PM
interesting.

I would have thought my '89 VE would be the same as your 5.9. but.. since it's an aftermarket upgrade from a VE to PPump style.. no telling what that stroke actually is. or if the cam lobe is the same for each..  seems to be lots of variables. I know those cummins lift pumps aren't cheap.. but getting the pump that fits your serial number might be the most solid start..?

still.. great to hear that it's running.

if you think it may be the block lift pump, can always hook the kennedys up in series, bypass the block pump and run it straight to the filter. that should produce ~ 16psi, no?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on May 04, 2016, 10:44:24 PM
There are 4 pumps of the piston variety for this application. For our purposes the only facts relative is if you have the thick spring, then you should be making around 28 psi ish at idle. The spacer is required and is there because the same piston pump is used on other Cummins series. The B series requires the spacer.

It's possible you have a bad pump, it's happened before. It's possible you have a bad relief/pressure valve on the pump, that happens also....but the reason behind eliminating the entire fuel system other than the piston lift pump is to determine if you have a issue with the piston pump or if your fuel system is the issue.

I run these engines almost daily, a can of fuel, a fuel line and a OEM lift pump, and they will perform perfectly. If yours doesn't when isolated, you know the issue is lift pump related.

On a side note... if those electric pumps are not producing the volume of fuel the lift pump needs, it will be limited to producing only whats available. A suspect issue when you see no rise in fuel pressure with RPM initially.

A further example: Patch has a high pressure lift pump and a boost referenced bypass regulator and OEM fuel lines. I just looked at the fuel pressure gauge tonight. It idles at 29 psi and makes close to 40 at 2500rpm. I have it set to run the VE at 15psi but that said... your pump should act similar. Starvation could be affecting it's output.

Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: swbhobie16 on May 04, 2016, 10:54:30 PM
the wealth of knowledge that is contained in the space between norms ears is ever amazing ..
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on May 04, 2016, 11:03:20 PM
A quick general rule on a P pump. You NEED 15psi to idle pretty much. It should maintain 40-45psi at 3000rpm. The well plants we run usually idle about 25-30psi and operate at 3200rpm around 45 psi. All with a OEM piston lift pump. I have found a OEM pump will supply 500 hp easily...that said it's being gravity fed from a large fuel tank (usually 500 gallons) with a half inch line. We run a standard issue wix filter before the pump. This setup in one case pumps water right at 500hp at 3200 rpm for 24 hours at a pop during irrigation season. It's a testament to the b series Cummins as that well should have a much larger engine on it.

In other words... I can make 500hp with a 5 gallon gas can and a 1/2 feed to the lift pump. Just not for long... 5 gallons goes fast LoL



Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: swbhobie16 on May 04, 2016, 11:10:41 PM
I bet 3200 rpm on that sucker is screaming!! hahah.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on May 04, 2016, 11:19:29 PM
Some day if I ever get un-cheap and buy a go pro, I will video the Ramcharger's 6bt spinning 4400 rpm at 50 psi of boost. It's a symphony I tell you.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: swbhobie16 on May 04, 2016, 11:22:47 PM
Some day if I ever get un-cheap and buy a go pro, I will video the Ramcharger's 6bt spinning 4400 rpm at 50 psi of boost. It's a symphony I tell you.

im sure you've seen a 30L V12 cummins rattling off at 1800 rpm..

that.. is a racket lemme tell ya. like.. can't hear someone screaming next to you racket.

always fun changing fuel filters on them while they're running. hahah
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on May 05, 2016, 12:46:30 AM
I drove (and built them) in my younger days with straight pipes up and down Hwy 5. Those 2 strokes were monsters!

All this time and back to the pump, but it runs!!

Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 05, 2016, 08:30:53 AM
interesting.

I would have thought my '89 VE would be the same as your 5.9. but.. since it's an aftermarket upgrade from a VE to PPump style.. no telling what that stroke actually is. or if the cam lobe is the same for each..  seems to be lots of variables. I know those cummins lift pumps aren't cheap.. but getting the pump that fits your serial number might be the most solid start..?

still.. great to hear that it's running.

if you think it may be the block lift pump, can always hook the kennedys up in series, bypass the block pump and run it straight to the filter. that should produce ~ 16psi, no?
I already have the Kennedy's hooked up in series and on different circuits...Part of the survival aspect of redundant systems and all that...
The turbine Kennedy pumps only make 4 psi each or 8 psi in series. I'm seeing 10 psi so the mechanical lift pump is doing something
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 05, 2016, 08:36:22 AM
There are 4 pumps of the piston variety for this application. For our purposes the only facts relative is if you have the thick spring, then you should be making around 28 psi ish at idle. The spacer is required and is there because the same piston pump is used on other Cummins series. The B series requires the spacer.

It's possible you have a bad pump, it's happened before. It's possible you have a bad relief/pressure valve on the pump, that happens also....but the reason behind eliminating the entire fuel system other than the piston lift pump is to determine if you have a issue with the piston pump or if your fuel system is the issue.

I run these engines almost daily, a can of fuel, a fuel line and a OEM lift pump, and they will perform perfectly. If yours doesn't when isolated, you know the issue is lift pump related.

On a side note... if those electric pumps are not producing the volume of fuel the lift pump needs, it will be limited to producing only whats available. A suspect issue when you see no rise in fuel pressure with RPM initially.

A further example: Patch has a high pressure lift pump and a boost referenced bypass regulator and OEM fuel lines. I just looked at the fuel pressure gauge tonight. It idles at 29 psi and makes close to 40 at 2500rpm. I have it set to run the VE at 15psi but that said... your pump should act similar. Starvation could be affecting it's output.


OK,
I'll get soaked in diesel AGAIN and see if we have a restriction
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on May 05, 2016, 08:45:49 AM
I think I'll buy a lottery ticket. I never thought I'd see this thread alive again.

You are really close Don. I think the front springs are flat because you have a 900lb bumper on it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 05, 2016, 08:56:06 AM
I think I'll buy a lottery ticket. I never thought I'd see this thread alive again.

You are really close Don. I think the front springs are flat because you have a 900lb bumper on it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That could be it...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on May 05, 2016, 09:20:04 AM
It's kinda surprising those springs settled that much even with a leaf removed. Gets me to wondering....it also gives me an idea.

Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on May 05, 2016, 10:36:31 AM
I can't believe it settled that much just being parked. How much would it drop after going down a rough trail? wow
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Sammconn on May 05, 2016, 11:09:30 AM
I think I'll buy a lottery ticket. I never thought I'd see this thread alive again.

You are really close Don. I think the front springs are flat because you have a 9000lb bumper on it.



Fixed it for Ya!
I'm also shocked by the settling, have you put the leaf you removed back in. It's been so long I've forgotten.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: wilsonphil on May 05, 2016, 07:37:53 PM
Not surprised about your spring, if you don't want sag I suggest you order a set of custom units and stop putting Indian and China made units under your truck.  I when thru that song and dance twice before I just bought custom units and have not had a problem since! 

About the fuel I second the Skoolofkool recommendation of just using a 5gallon can and just the factory lift pump
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 05, 2016, 08:03:01 PM
I was playing around with it today, but darn if the batteries went nearly dead!

Man!

I have them on a trickle charger.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: wilsonphil on May 05, 2016, 10:37:53 PM
Those batteries did pretty good for 6 months!!!  I think if you do the fuel can setup its going to run, let it charge all night and try it in the morning.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 06, 2016, 07:34:06 AM
Those batteries did pretty good for 6 months!!!  I think if you do the fuel can setup its going to run, let it charge all night and try it in the morning.
Sorry, but you'll have to wait just a bit

Leaving for the farm today, be down there for awhile...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on May 06, 2016, 10:30:41 AM
Teaser,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Tedram on May 06, 2016, 12:31:47 PM
I think I'll buy a lottery ticket. I never thought I'd see this thread alive again.

You are really close Don. I think the front springs are flat because you have a 900lb bumper on it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Maybe by me bumping this thread it got the wheels turning (or at least the engine turning)...... Don, hearing that run was music to my ears..... you are getting close.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: swbhobie16 on May 14, 2016, 03:11:23 PM
I hope you've been out of cell range on expedition in SqD for the last week, hence the lack of update.  8)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 16, 2016, 08:35:20 PM
Well I finally pulled the fuel line and stuck it in a 5 gallon can of diesel...finally!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 16, 2016, 08:36:13 PM
I started it up and immediately filled the garage with unburned diesel white smoke!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 16, 2016, 08:40:02 PM
And here is the cause:

Note the fuel pressure is something less than 10 psi at idle. The second pic shows the pitiful pressure with me revving the motor. I can feel the fuel pump pumping, and I can see the fuel lines pulsing like an artery jumping with a heart beat. But there is just not enough pressure.

So one of two things...

The pump is not working properly,

or

the pressure control valve on the outlet side of the Bosch pump is not working properly.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: swbhobie16 on May 16, 2016, 08:56:26 PM
well.. that's not what I/we were hoping for. but at least you have narrowed it down by a large factor. I wonder if there is any chance the larger lines, and double supply lines are causing the issue. (I havent looked into the double feed setup enough to know.. I'm sure norm has an idea) again, just spit balling ideas. I've always seen the double supply lines on big number cummins setups.. not sub 400hp motors like I (and is guess you) are going for. nothing wild, just reliable.

either way, it's getting much much closer than it was. which is awesome.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 16, 2016, 09:11:27 PM
well.. that's not what I/we were hoping for. but at least you have narrowed it down by a large factor. I wonder if there is any chance the larger lines, and double supply lines are causing the issue. (I havent looked into the double feed setup enough to know.. I'm sure norm has an idea) again, just spit balling ideas. I've always seen the double supply lines on big number cummins setups.. not sub 400hp motors like I (and is guess you) are going for. nothing wild, just reliable.

either way, it's getting much much closer than it was. which is awesome.
I don't think the dual fuel line is causing anything. And the pressure is taken right before the split.

Oh, and this is no 400 HP mill. It will make somewhere between 600-700 HP. That is what I speced to the turbo and injector builders and what I had the pump fitted out to do. Talking to Norm, he seems to think it is a 600+ HP mill.

Now, if I ever did this again, I'd go have my head examined before making such a stout mill for this application. Nossir, I would have built a warmed up VE motor and been very happy I suspect!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: swbhobie16 on May 16, 2016, 09:44:16 PM
I guess I was sleepin when I read what you had the engine built to do. hahah. in that case, carry on. I was thinking it was a medium built PPump for reliability. not something that could pull your entire house! hah. either way, you have at least narrowed it down to lift pump issues.. which should be easily overcome. can't wait to see a vid of it moving down the road.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on May 16, 2016, 10:10:40 PM
Now the next test: With the truck idling, slowly pinch off the return line coming out of the injection pump while watching the gauge. If the pressure stays the same, it's the lift pump. If it climbs, the problem is in the injection pump....takes 2 seconds to find out.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: swbhobie16 on May 16, 2016, 10:15:14 PM
Now the next test: With the truck idling, slowly pinch off the return line coming out of the injection pump while watching the gauge. If the pressure stays the same, it's the lift pump. If it climbs, the problem is in the injection pump....takes 2 seconds to find out.

now that.. is a rather smart individual.  8)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on May 17, 2016, 12:03:22 AM
Didn't a few guys suggest this months back?

Throw a stock pump on it see what happens,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on May 17, 2016, 08:58:24 AM
Yah what Ken said..dead head that pump for just a brief moment, and lets solve this mystery.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 17, 2016, 09:12:54 AM
Now the next test: With the truck idling, slowly pinch off the return line coming out of the injection pump while watching the gauge. If the pressure stays the same, it's the lift pump. If it climbs, the problem is in the injection pump....takes 2 seconds to find out.
OK, that's next, give me a few...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on May 17, 2016, 09:45:54 AM
I can picture Ken sitting in his office waiting wringing his hands... Stlaser is checking wine tasting schedules and sipping his morning coffee eyeing the latest UFO sighting location maps and....

Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 17, 2016, 09:56:56 AM
I can picture Ken sitting in his office waiting wringing his hands... Stlaser is checking wine tasting schedules and sipping his morning coffee eyeing the latest UFO sighting location maps and....


Shawn gone rogue hippie on us ya think?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 17, 2016, 09:57:24 AM
Possible, Colorado, rocky mountain high and all that...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on May 17, 2016, 10:05:44 AM
Rogue Hippie. Bahahahahhaha
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 17, 2016, 10:16:49 AM
Rogue Hippie. Bahahahahhaha
^^^ You see it happening as well!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cj7ox on May 17, 2016, 12:25:24 PM
Getting closer!!!  :)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 17, 2016, 07:44:33 PM
Now the next test: With the truck idling, slowly pinch off the return line coming out of the injection pump while watching the gauge. If the pressure stays the same, it's the lift pump. If it climbs, the problem is in the injection pump....takes 2 seconds to find out.
Ken,
I did the test you outlined.
I started the thing, now getting hard to start. Idled it, then slowly pinched off the return line. There was no change in fuel pressure at all...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 17, 2016, 07:45:47 PM
Since I'm doing so much fuel pressure testing, I semi permanently mounted a fuel press gage to the intake pipe in a foam collar
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 17, 2016, 07:46:50 PM
If anyone was wondering where the fuel pressure tap was taken, here is a pic of the tap coming off the "T"
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 17, 2016, 07:47:46 PM
And here is the paltry fuel pressure both at an idle and with the return line pinched off
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 17, 2016, 07:48:57 PM
So, according to Ken's logic, I seem to have identified a faulty, albeit, new, lift pump!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on May 17, 2016, 08:19:50 PM
I can picture Ken sitting in his office waiting wringing his hands... Stlaser is checking wine tasting schedules and sipping his morning coffee eyeing the latest UFO sighting location maps and....


Shawn gone rogue hippie on us ya think?

I don't know about the hippie part (they usually have long hair and well mine isn't long but it is thinning) and as far as the rogue well I did just sign up for a tactical shotgun course so maybe.........

& Norm the wine and coffee is my wife's thing, I try not to drink either.......
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on May 17, 2016, 08:47:22 PM
That's pretty cut and dry...but one last thing (I promise). Pinch both of those p pump hoses at the same time. You should be able to get a reading just before it dies.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: swbhobie16 on May 17, 2016, 08:51:29 PM
how hard is it starting..?

mine takes about 2-3 seconds of turning over before she fires. that shorter or longer than yours?

it definitely doesn't start as quick as my VE pump. that sucker doesn't make one revolution before it comes to life..
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on May 17, 2016, 09:10:19 PM
Ken how can you talk shop at a time like this when your girlfriend is in the fight of her life with Bernie?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on May 17, 2016, 09:29:54 PM
Ouch!!!!  ;D
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 17, 2016, 09:36:10 PM
That's pretty cut and dry...but one last thing (I promise). Pinch both of those p pump hoses at the same time. You should be able to get a reading just before it dies.
Well, Kenneth, I don't believe it will start anymore. Remember I was getting like 10psi at idle and about 17-18 while being revved? Well, now it only makes 4 psi anytime and refuses to start...

I think I have a bad lift pump, or something associated directly with it. I think I'll pull it off and disassemble it and inspect for damage.
Then off to the parts store for a new one...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on May 17, 2016, 10:04:53 PM
Something is defiantly amiss. Ken has a good point...you'd have to pinch both lines to actually dead head the pump. That said, the falling fuel pressure is rather suspect as a lift pump failure.

So you should be running by noonish tomorrow :D



Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 17, 2016, 10:26:25 PM
Something is defiantly amiss. Ken has a good point...you'd have to pinch both lines to actually dead head the pump. That said, the falling fuel pressure is rather suspect as a lift pump failure.

So you should be running by noonish tomorrow :D




So Koot, which mechanical lift pump should I be looking for?
I see that most 94-98 pumps are the same, although there are a bunch of manufacturers.

I also see that a 24 valve pump has more either pressure or flow...

Watcha think?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on May 18, 2016, 12:21:31 AM
Whichever pump your year engine calls for....that's what I'd do.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on May 18, 2016, 07:35:33 AM
GET-R-DUN!
[/b]

You are soooo close Don.  I know you've never failed at anything you've put your mind to and completing that uncompleted task will let you sleep better at night...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on May 18, 2016, 10:05:39 AM
If you want to be 100000% certain, ya have to dead head head the lift pump. We've eliminated "bad supply" and "too much return flow". We haven't eliminated fuel free flowing through the injection pump. If you dead head the lift pump, it will give you a cut and dry answer. Even just cranking it over (not running) will give you actual lift pressure.


Tex, [.....................................]

...fill in the blank. :)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 18, 2016, 03:30:23 PM
Now the next test: With the truck idling, slowly pinch off the return line coming out of the injection pump while watching the gauge. If the pressure stays the same, it's the lift pump. If it climbs, the problem is in the injection pump....takes 2 seconds to find out.
Ken,
Last night I pinched off the wrong line. I pinched off the return line coming off the injectors.
I thought I might have done something wrong so I started thinking about it
I remembered the pressure line routed back to the tank...
Yea...
So now the engine won't start, like as it won't even sputter a little bit. I think with the fuel pressure going so low, there is no chance.
So, as a result, is we still don't know what is going on with this fuel supply problem.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 18, 2016, 03:41:17 PM
Update:

I pinched off the fuel supply lines to the injection pump.

I was seeing zero pressure. Now I wonder if that was due to the fact that there is no fuel in the pump or the pump has completely failed...

Next check: Pull the fuel lines to see if there is indeed fuel in them
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on May 18, 2016, 04:12:01 PM
While you replace the stock lift pump?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on May 18, 2016, 04:19:23 PM
Update:

I pinched off the fuel supply lines to the injection pump.

I was seeing zero pressure. Now I wonder if that was due to the fact that there is no fuel in the pump or the pump has completely failed...

Next check: Pull the fuel lines to see if there is indeed fuel in them

Wow, yeah that's pretty definitive, unless the fuel drained back into the bucket over night...in which case it shouldn't, which means the check valve in the lift pump is bad, which means it ultimately needs a lift pump....just hope that's all it needs.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 18, 2016, 04:50:24 PM
At the moment I have just pulled the overflow valve apart. It looks normal...

I found a cool way to modify it to produce 40-45psi pressure. I think I'll do that and go buy a new lift pump.

I just checked out the overflow valve and I just noticed the check ball in it is all scarred up on one side. It may not be totally "Round" at a microscopic level. I think I'll pick up a new one of those as well!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 18, 2016, 04:52:17 PM
OK, checked O'Riley auto parts. They wanted $146 for a pump!

Crazy

So I just ordered one from Cummins Performance Parts for $70. They sell the Carter pump.

I also picked up an adjustable overflow valve
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Dawg25385 on May 18, 2016, 09:37:02 PM
Hope that works out and you get er up and running soon!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on May 18, 2016, 10:11:03 PM
Where's that popcorn emoji?   Ken, I love you too!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on May 19, 2016, 01:42:50 AM
(http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/2FB/popcorn_zpsv0wdv9qo.jpg) (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/2FB/media/popcorn_zpsv0wdv9qo.jpg.html)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Nate on May 19, 2016, 11:28:41 AM
will this one work for you RN?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: swbhobie16 on May 19, 2016, 09:14:10 PM
eyy yo big D.. where's the burn out vid??
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cudakidd53 on May 19, 2016, 09:25:54 PM
eyy yo big D.. where's the burn out vid??


You need to ask Shawn to go film some in Denver.......Kentucky only has Meth Heads...... ;D
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on May 19, 2016, 09:39:24 PM
I stay away from them typically, you see I have this twitch in my shoulder & every time I get near one of those idiots my shoulder keeps wanting to swing my arm in a rapid motion towards their nose.......
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: rpar86 on May 19, 2016, 09:43:11 PM
eyy yo big D.. where's the burn out vid??

He did that already -- it was the cloud of white smoke pouring out of the garage now on a couple of occasions ;)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: swbhobie16 on May 19, 2016, 09:58:10 PM
eyy yo big D.. where's the burn out vid??

He did that already -- it was the cloud of white smoke pouring out of the garage now on a couple of occasions ;)

burn out.. not flame out  ;D hahah
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on May 20, 2016, 12:13:32 AM
Come on guys he is trying. I mean he did finally try the bucket fuel tank after several months. At least it looks like the timing is OK, someone did mention that,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cudakidd53 on May 20, 2016, 06:44:34 AM
On a serious note- was it ever determined whether the pumps push rod was long enough based upon the use of some type of spacer involved?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on May 20, 2016, 10:50:03 AM
Curious about that too? High end pricey pump, was the spacer needed or a longer rod?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 20, 2016, 11:03:26 AM
On a serious note- was it ever determined whether the pumps push rod was long enough based upon the use of some type of spacer involved?
Yea, Norm answered that one. The spacer is required for the B series engines.

I read quite a bit (Too much??) about that. The pump pushrod rides directly on the cam lobe. The cam lobe has the same amount of lift in all the engines, that being .250".

The pump, "Pumps" on the relax or extension stroke, not the push stroke.

Now what I don't like is that I think the pump was in fact working. It pulsed enough to shake the fuel lines upstream. I later bench tested it and I'd push in the pushrod, and when I released it I get rewarded with a goodly amount of fuel squirting out the end of the hose. So I may have purchased a spare pump!

I am not, however, convinced that the overflow valve is operating correctly. The scarred up portion would not have seated completely which begs the question.

I hate to think it, but I may in fact be looking at another injection pump. Too early to say. I'll install the new pump and overflow valve when they get here and start again. Meanwhile I am creating my punchout list and beginning work on it
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on May 20, 2016, 02:21:53 PM
Should I have a punch out list?  I'd be happy if I could find my box of media tip for the blaster that grew legs. That and more rain.... good thing I have other stuff to do. 
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 20, 2016, 09:17:41 PM
Speaking of a punch-out list...I actually created one. It is probably 90%-95% complete

The asterisk items are optional for now, but a part of the long term build on this truck.

It's a long list! I am quite a bit away from finishing the truck it would seem.

I think I was losing interest because I lacked a plan, and for other reasons as well. Like the need to get the farm up and operational. Summer is the time to get that done, so a lot of money and effort will be heading south, but I can now see what I have to do to get this truck driving and operational.

SO without further adieu, here is that list:

Square D Punch-out list

Connect Brake pedal
Connect Proportioning valve?strange fittings??
Fill and bleed brake system
Install Lift pump
Reconnect fuel supply lines
Install Overflow valve
Reinstall Marine injectors
Install stainless hardware to aux fuel door, repaint mount plate
Relocate throttle cable
Mount AC condenser
Run AC lines
Hook up AC system, bleed/charge
Figure out AC wiring to use factory switch
Install air filter to cab air
Wire up top area illumination lights
Install convoluted wire loom covering on top/exterior wires
Fabricate sill plates/secure carpet and wiring
Figure out/repair dome light
Install foot well lights
Label overhead switches
Install transfer case 4WD indicator switch in top of case (OUCH!)
Figure out/install transmission wiring from two-prong switch
Install overdrive switch?New model shift lever/switch??
Find/repair transmission leak
Reinstall fuel shutoff plate
Install momentary grid heater switch next to fuel shutoff
Install aux fuel tank fuel level gage
Connect fuel transfer pump switch from aux tank
Install 10 psi hobbs switch to H2O injection
Close off back of right fender well
Fabricate fender well bulkhead
Install air cleaner
Connect air intake to turbo
Hook up rear air bag lines
Replace rear taillight sockets and secure harness
Top off power steering fluid
Replace aft deep cycle battery with normal unit
Gage cluster:   
   Figure out/repair the half of the lights that don?t work
   Figure out/repair speedometer
   Mount tachometer/ hook up and get working
Build left door panel or repair and install factory panel
**Install new Silverado rear springs
**Install rear shackle flip system
**Install new front leaf spring mount on rear springs
**Fab up rear entry door to replace rear hatch and tail gate
**Modify rear topper top to a flip up design
**Fabricate rock rails
**Fabricate rear ?Surprise? module
**Fabricate smoke generator
**Fab up rear folding bunk
**Fab up storage for bed

Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on May 20, 2016, 09:45:44 PM
Is that the short list?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on May 20, 2016, 09:49:22 PM
Nice list...I have no ability to plan that far ahead. My list goes like this "put it together"

On your list a few comments:
AC... it' controlled by the PCM...wiring around that is simple enough for the most part...but if memory serves me correctly the cycle switch needs to be swapped to a older style. I am sure a google search and some time will answer that.

OD switch: I used a old school dimmer switch on the floor in Patch... very handy for "involved driving" when two hands are required for something other than turning on/off OD.

There is a secret to making the electronic speedo work with out a PCM...when you get it driving I will walk you through it. (assuming yr using the OEM speedo)

As for the rear springs...I am likely going to be head first into that in a week or two myself.




Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on May 20, 2016, 09:58:39 PM
I will need to do the AC to. Pretty sure mine goes through the PCM as it kicks in high idle and cycles with the defrost.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 21, 2016, 09:13:38 PM
Here's the fuel pump I pulled off. I believe it is fine, seemed to pump OK and no unusual wear or cracking anywhere. Never the less, I have a new on the way here.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 21, 2016, 09:15:08 PM
And here is the overflow valve, which did however show some wear in the check ball surface
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 21, 2016, 09:18:34 PM
The replacement overflow valve is an adjustable unit which can push the pressure up into the 40's assuming everything else is working all right.

I just started on the long list of punch out items. I picked something easy, replacing the temp bolts in the aux fuel port with the #10-24 machine screws

I managed to pull off some paint and a stick on letter, so I applied a new decal as well
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 21, 2016, 09:20:15 PM
Another pesky item was the leak at the main fuel filler port. So I cleaned and RTV'd that sucker up next
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 21, 2016, 09:22:30 PM
Then I felt it was time to tackle something much bigger...The remainder of the snorkel/air filtration system.

I will not be using the factory filter can any longer. Instead I'll simply attach the filter to the back side of the bulkhead piece.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 21, 2016, 09:23:33 PM
I started with a hole in some aircraft .032 aluminum
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 21, 2016, 09:24:32 PM
Then I drilled the three holes which will serve to mount the filter head
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 21, 2016, 09:25:44 PM
After enlarging the hole for the filter stub base, the filter head laid in very nicely
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 21, 2016, 09:27:18 PM
Then I started trimming that piece down to a manageable size. This piece will screw into the aluminum structure I plan to build to isolate the filter from the engine bay
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 21, 2016, 09:28:27 PM
This is the inside view and how the air filter will be suspended about in the center of a very large plenum
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 21, 2016, 09:30:22 PM
I did a bit of cleanup and size-up of the project as a whole. I guess today was a "Getting reaquainted day" with Square D. I noticed several more things to add to the list, which I did, and now have a better idea of how to proceed.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 21, 2016, 09:42:25 PM
So here is the list as of today:
Green = Complete
Orange = in progress
Purple = awaiting parts
Red = not started yet/needs to be done


Square D Punch-out list
Install stainless hardware to aux fuel door, repaint mount plate

Seal fuel filler port/repair leak
Fabricate fender well bulkhead/Install air cleaner

Connect Brake pedal
Connect Proportioning valve?strange fittings??
Fill and bleed brake system

Install Lift pump
Reconnect fuel supply lines
Install Overflow valve

Reinstall Marine injectors
Relocate left front limb riser cable mount
Relocate throttle cable
Mount AC condenser
Run AC lines
Hook up AC system, bleed/charge
Figure out AC wiring to use factory switch
Install air filter to cab air
Wire up top area illumination lights
Install convoluted wire loom covering on top/exterior wires
Fabricate sill plates/secure carpet and wiring
Figure out/repair dome light
Install foot well lights
Label overhead switches
Install transfer case 4WD indicator switch in top of case (OUCH!)
Figure out/install transmission wiring from two-prong switch
Install overdrive switch?New model shift lever/switch??
Find/repair transmission leak
Reinstall fuel shutoff plate
Install momentary grid heater switch next to fuel shutoff
Install aux fuel tank fuel level gage
Connect fuel transfer pump switch from aux tank
Install 10 psi hobbs switch to H2O injection
Close off back of right fender well
Connect air intake to turbo
Hook up rear air bag lines
Replace rear taillight sockets and secure harness
Top off power steering fluid
Replace aft deep cycle battery with normal unit
Gage cluster:   
   Figure out/repair the half of the lights that don?t work
   Figure out/repair speedometer
   Mount tachometer/ hook up and get working
Build left door panel or repair and install factory panel
**Install new Silverado rear springs
**Install rear shackle flip system
**Install new front leaf spring mount on rear springs
**Fab up rear entry door to replace rear hatch and tail gate
**Modify rear topper top to a flip up design
**Fabricate rock rails
**Fabricate rear ?Surprise? module
**Fabricate smoke generator
**Fab up rear folding bunk
**Fab up storage for bed
]
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on May 21, 2016, 10:03:27 PM
Normal, the more you do, the more you find to do.

It looks ready to get out of the garage!!!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 21, 2016, 10:06:22 PM
Normal, the more you do, the more you find to do.

It looks ready to get out of the garage!!!
I'm ready to get it out of the garage!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: moto123 on May 22, 2016, 08:29:34 AM
We're ready to see it out of the garage!

But the voice in my head keeps saying in Steve Irwin's accent "Crikey!  What we have here is a Square D in his natural environment.  Let's be quiet so we don't wake him up."

Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: tlane3546 on May 22, 2016, 12:47:09 PM
Introducing myself here, I've already spoke with Don through PM. My name is Travis, I've been silently stalking this build for over a year now. I am certified Cummins mechanic at a Kenworth dealer in Lafayette, IN. I would love to help in anyway I can, this rig is amazing, the detail and quality that goes into every aspect of it is spectacular. I own a 93 D250 that I converted to a W250. I believe in keeping these old beauties alive, so anyway I can help, I'm here. I have access to Cummins Quickserve, I also have friends at Cummins in Columbus who were part of the original B-series in a 3/4 ton pick up project.

Travis
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on May 22, 2016, 12:55:09 PM
A Hoosier! Told ya there wasn't any diesel mechanics in the tuck...... ;D
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: tlane3546 on May 22, 2016, 01:00:10 PM
A Hoosier! Told ya there wasn't any diesel mechanics in the tuck...... ;D

Haha yes a Hoosier, nothing but corn here.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cj7ox on May 22, 2016, 03:43:15 PM
Introducing myself here, I've already spoke with Don through PM. My name is Travis, I've been silently stalking this build for over a year now. I am certified Cummins mechanic at a Kenworth dealer in Lafayette, IN. I would love to help in anyway I can, this rig is amazing, the detail and quality that goes into every aspect of it is spectacular. I own a 93 D250 that I converted to a W250. I believe in keeping these old beauties alive, so anyway I can help, I'm here. I have access to Cummins Quickserve, I also have friends at Cummins in Columbus who were part of the original B-series in a 3/4 ton pick up project.

Travis
Welcome, tlane! Yet another forum member drawn to the site by SquareD. Maybe that is Don's reason for not finishing the project? The longer it goes on, the more people drawn to the flock? Hmmm...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on May 22, 2016, 04:22:05 PM
I assume your last name is Lane? Are you possibly related to a Jim or Dave Lane of NE In origin?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 22, 2016, 05:35:43 PM
Introducing myself here, I've already spoke with Don through PM. My name is Travis, I've been silently stalking this build for over a year now. I am certified Cummins mechanic at a Kenworth dealer in Lafayette, IN. I would love to help in anyway I can, this rig is amazing, the detail and quality that goes into every aspect of it is spectacular. I own a 93 D250 that I converted to a W250. I believe in keeping these old beauties alive, so anyway I can help, I'm here. I have access to Cummins Quickserve, I also have friends at Cummins in Columbus who were part of the original B-series in a 3/4 ton pick up project.

Travis
Welcome, tlane! Yet another forum member drawn to the site by SquareD. Maybe that is Don's reason for not finishing the project? The longer it goes on, the more people drawn to the flock? Hmmm...
I'm the crafty one all right!...You know how those Night Stalkers are... ;-)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cj7ox on May 22, 2016, 05:38:17 PM
I'm the crafty one all right!...You know how those Night Stalkers are... ;-)
Sneaky is more like it! LOL
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: tlane3546 on May 22, 2016, 08:13:38 PM
I assume your last name is Lane? Are you possibly related to a Jim or Dave Lane of NE In origin?

No Sir, all of the Lane relatives that I know of are from southern Illinois and Southern Indiana. But its possible.



Thanks for the welcomes!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: tlane3546 on May 22, 2016, 08:16:55 PM
DON,

WHAT IS THE ENGINE SERIAL NUMBER FOR YOUR ENGINE?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on May 22, 2016, 08:43:08 PM
What do we call you??

Anyway glad to see you here.

Sent you a PM.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: tlane3546 on May 22, 2016, 08:47:58 PM
What do we call you??

Anyway glad to see you here.

Sent you a PM.
Oh like a cool CB handle?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on May 22, 2016, 09:15:35 PM
Welcome Lane.   Don. Saw a guy put a 6CT in a F350..... Maybe time to start over ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: tlane3546 on May 22, 2016, 09:22:37 PM
Welcome Lane.   Don. Saw a guy put a 6CT in a F350..... Maybe time to start over ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks!

Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: tlane3546 on May 22, 2016, 09:52:17 PM
What do we call you??

Anyway glad to see you here.

Sent you a PM.
Oh like a cool CB handle?

And Lane will work just fine lol
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: EL TATE on May 23, 2016, 09:38:10 AM
Nice to have you aboard officially and all. Pooling resources is what this place is all about!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: tlane3546 on May 23, 2016, 10:53:36 AM
Nice to have you aboard officially and all. Pooling resources is what this place is all about!

Thanks! I'm all about sharing knowledge!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on May 23, 2016, 03:18:59 PM
Between you and Koot we are covered great now.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: tlane3546 on May 25, 2016, 06:31:00 AM
Its a ghost town, where is everyone? Don what's going on??
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: swbhobie16 on May 25, 2016, 07:56:10 AM
ohh you'll get used to days/weeks where nothing happens on this thread. just know in confidence that don is sitting back, looking at SqD and thinking of his next plan of attack.

but more than likely he's out on sarge re arranging the landscape to his liking. hahah
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on May 25, 2016, 08:05:34 PM
As Don slips into repose and pensively contemplates life after Hillary, he is making mental progress towards the Kaizen of automotive nirvana.  That never to be achieved perfection known as Square D.

in other words.  Be patient.  He's old and has lots of irons in the fire....
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 25, 2016, 08:18:56 PM
Its a ghost town, where is everyone? Don what's going on??
Was down at the Hide since Monday destroying perfectly good ag equipment!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 25, 2016, 08:19:51 PM
As Don slips into repose and pensively contemplates life after Hillary, he is making mental progress towards the Kaizen of automotive nirvana.  That never to be achieved perfection known as Square D.

in other words.  Be patient.  He's old and has lots of irons in the fire....
You're only as old as you feel!

I'm pretty old at the moment!!!!!!!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on May 25, 2016, 09:14:00 PM
Boy do I hear that.

Just heard they extradited a cyber guy to testify against Hillary on the email. We can still hope and the F B I is not letting this go.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 26, 2016, 08:33:34 PM
OK, got my parts to check the fuel flow to the engine

Just in: an adjustable overflow valve, new Pensacola diesel lift pump, and I got a different stack up for the fittings on top of that lift pump.

I'll bolt it all up and test run tomorrow
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: swbhobie16 on May 26, 2016, 08:54:20 PM
 ::) :o ;D 8)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on May 26, 2016, 10:02:22 PM
Tomorrow!!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on May 26, 2016, 11:24:51 PM
Tomorrow!!


Heard that before........ ;D
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Sammconn on May 27, 2016, 08:10:54 AM
SHOT!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on May 27, 2016, 08:46:14 PM
&??????
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 27, 2016, 08:53:29 PM
OK, I got it running!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 27, 2016, 08:55:11 PM
I started with the new Pensacola diesel lift pump and a variety of fittings to try and figure out a better way of routing the fuel lines and mounting them
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 27, 2016, 08:56:56 PM
The problem with this pump is clearance to run larger lines. Larger lines require larger fittings and there is precious little room for anything much larger than what I already had installed
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 27, 2016, 08:57:47 PM
So I built up the new pump with the new style fittings
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on May 27, 2016, 08:58:38 PM
OK, I got it running!

Sweet! Congrats!!!!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 27, 2016, 08:59:13 PM
But...That dog wouldn't hunt!

So I had the pleasure of pulling off the pump and reconfigured it with the stuff I had figured out the first time
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 27, 2016, 09:01:19 PM
Next I installed the new, adjustable overflow valve. This valve is factory set for I believe 35 psi bleed pressure, which is more amicable to a high performance P-Pump motor, I think
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 27, 2016, 09:03:39 PM
The motor did not start right up, but rather stumbled to life. I suspect it had air in the system and a lot of old fuel in the cylinders. So it did smoke some for awhile...and made me pretty nervous that it was all starting again!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 27, 2016, 09:06:32 PM
But as the motor warmed it also smoothed out. The throttle response is very quick, like right now, urgent. Bump it and it spools right up.

I noted the kennedy fuel pumps supplied 8 psi with the motor off. Then as soon as I started it the presure rose above 20 to around 30ish. When revving it it is running above 40, but with a lot of needle bounce on the direct reading mechanical gage.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 27, 2016, 09:08:31 PM
While I had it running, I crawled underneath and immediately discovered the trans oil leak:
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 27, 2016, 09:09:57 PM
So here is the list as of today:
Green = Complete
Orange = in progress
Purple = awaiting parts
Red = not started yet/needs to be done


Square D Punch-out list
Install stainless hardware to aux fuel door, repaint mount plate
Seal fuel filler port/repair leak
Fabricate fender well bulkhead/Install air cleaner

Connect Brake pedal
Connect Proportioning valve?strange fittings??
Fill and bleed brake system

Install Lift pump
Reconnect fuel supply lines
Install Overflow valve

Reinstall Marine injectors
Relocate left front limb riser cable mount
Relocate throttle cable
Mount AC condenser
Run AC lines
Hook up AC system, bleed/charge
Figure out AC wiring to use factory switch
Install air filter to cab air
Wire up top area illumination lights
Install convoluted wire loom covering on top/exterior wires
Fabricate sill plates/secure carpet and wiring
Figure out/repair dome light
Install foot well lights
Label overhead switches
Install transfer case 4WD indicator switch in top of case (OUCH!)
Figure out/install transmission wiring from two-prong switch
Install overdrive switch?New model shift lever/switch??
Find/repair transmission leak
Reinstall fuel shutoff plate
Install momentary grid heater switch next to fuel shutoff
Install aux fuel tank fuel level gage
Connect fuel transfer pump switch from aux tank
Install 10 psi hobbs switch to H2O injection
Close off back of right fender well
Connect air intake to turbo
Hook up rear air bag lines
Replace rear taillight sockets and secure harness
Top off power steering fluid
Replace aft deep cycle battery with normal unit
Gage cluster:   
   Figure out/repair the half of the lights that don?t work
   Figure out/repair speedometer
   Mount tachometer/ hook up and get working
Build left door panel or repair and install factory panel
**Install new Silverado rear springs
**Install rear shackle flip system
**Install new front leaf spring mount on rear springs
**Fab up rear entry door to replace rear hatch and tail gate
**Modify rear topper top to a flip up design
**Fabricate rock rails
**Fabricate rear ?Surprise? module
**Fabricate smoke generator
**Fab up rear folding bunk
**Fab up storage for bed
]
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: rpar86 on May 27, 2016, 09:10:34 PM
She's a purrin'!!

That's why you painted things that lycoming grey -- so you could see the leaks!  Guess there is a method to your madness (most of the time)!  ;)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on May 27, 2016, 09:15:18 PM
All that psi sounds good and the engine seems to like it!

Yup, thats a trans leak alright. If not one thing its another,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 27, 2016, 09:20:15 PM
All that psi sounds good and the engine seems to like it!

Yup, thats a trans leak alright. If not one thing its another,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
The good part in finding that leak, is that, well, I found it. The fluid is all coming out of a single fitting in the case. It is a fitting which is pipe thread fitted into a narrow part of the case which is known to crack. I remember tightening it very gingerly and probably left it a bit loose out of caution. I'll have it leak free pdq now!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 27, 2016, 09:20:54 PM
She's a purrin'!!

That's why you painted things that lycoming grey -- so you could see the leaks!  Guess there is a method to your madness (most of the time)!  ;)
Yessir, there is!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: moto123 on May 28, 2016, 12:06:21 AM
It's alive!!!

Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Sammconn on May 28, 2016, 12:16:49 AM
Good news on all counts. I was leary of the fittings you had used, but with the real estate shortcomings it is what works.
Glad to see that issue resolved, and hopefully your t-case leak is just that loose plug.
When you said the pipe thread fitting I thought you were going to the 4wd indicator that is to be installed.

Still quite a punch list, but headway is being made.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: rpar86 on May 28, 2016, 12:44:42 AM
T-case and trans leak are two different things from the look of it Sam.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Sammconn on May 28, 2016, 12:54:37 AM
Sure are...tired brain fart there.
Been up since 03:00, need to hit the hay apparently.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: tlane3546 on May 28, 2016, 06:20:33 AM
See look at that, I make myself present in the forum and you get it running, told you God brought me here for a reason Don. Haha
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on May 28, 2016, 07:13:33 AM
Congrats Don... amazing how well they run with fuel pressure.  ;D 

Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cudakidd53 on May 28, 2016, 07:36:24 AM
Great development; glad the tide seems to be turning in your favor after repeated frustrations! :)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on May 28, 2016, 09:50:35 AM
Great news Don!! U da man

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 28, 2016, 10:37:25 AM
You Cummins guys...What is that stumble as you rev it? From an idle, if you hit it, it stumbles along for a bit then works up some revs.

It spools pretty quickly, faster than I would have thought but it acts like a gas engine which loses vacuum when you first punch it and open 4 barrels to atmosphere

Could it be that all the fuel is pushing out to the factory injectors? I still haven't reinstalled the Marine injectors yet.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: tlane3546 on May 28, 2016, 07:32:32 PM
Sounds like air in the fuel lines
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: tlane3546 on May 28, 2016, 07:33:29 PM
It should be very smooth when you hit it
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on May 28, 2016, 07:46:30 PM
I want him to weigh it. It's got to be north of 8k by now.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on May 28, 2016, 09:22:58 PM
Don, congratulations. I know that makes you feel better. Happy for you


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Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 29, 2016, 09:42:44 AM
Yea, all this is good news

Still gonna be a bit slow in the development...Two words:

Spring...Farm

But I have rain and off days when I'll get on it, but for now off to bush hogging, dropping trees, and grillin' out in the wild!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: tlane3546 on May 29, 2016, 02:11:44 PM
Happy Memorial Day everyone!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on May 31, 2016, 10:01:32 PM
Just getting back in...Thanks
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cj7ox on June 02, 2016, 10:39:09 AM
Don, congrats on getting SquareD running healthy!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on June 02, 2016, 10:43:22 AM
Don, congrats on getting SquareD running healthy!
Thank ya...

Sourcing the aluminum for the air cleaner plenum build...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on June 07, 2016, 09:25:52 PM
I cleaned it up today and got rid of an oil leak
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on June 07, 2016, 09:38:11 PM
tease
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Sammconn on June 07, 2016, 10:08:18 PM
Total tease... :-\
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on June 07, 2016, 10:59:54 PM
Lets put it on jack stands so the tires go flat like the springs,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cj7ox on June 08, 2016, 12:28:43 PM
Lets put it on jack stands so the tires don't go flat like the springs,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Fixed it for ya, JR!  ;D
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on June 08, 2016, 01:44:47 PM
There I go, thinking faster than I type,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cj7ox on June 08, 2016, 02:42:56 PM
There I go, thinking faster than I type,,,,,,,,,,,,

LOL! I got your back!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on June 09, 2016, 11:07:09 AM
DOT-T right there ^^^

DOT Teamwork...

Not a good thing

Kinda like a scratch that turns red and starts into an infection, like that, these two

Good thing is I have surgical instruments!

If the infection gets to the point where I need to amputate, I can get it done!

How cool is that?!!?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cj7ox on June 09, 2016, 11:11:53 AM
DOT-T right there ^^^

DOT Teamwork...

Not a good thing

Kinda like a scratch that turns red and starts into an infection, like that, these two

Good thing is I have surgical instruments!

If the infection gets to the point where I need to amputate, I can get it done!

How cool is that?!!?

Do I need to begin the anesthetizing now? The only thing I have available is distilled spirits...
I guess that'll do as a field expedient, right? LOL!
 
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on June 09, 2016, 11:18:00 AM
DOT-T right there ^^^

DOT Teamwork...

Not a good thing

Kinda like a scratch that turns red and starts into an infection, like that, these two

Good thing is I have surgical instruments!

If the infection gets to the point where I need to amputate, I can get it done!

How cool is that?!!?

Do I need to begin the anesthetizing now? The only thing I have available is distilled spirits...
I guess that'll do as a field expedient, right? LOL!
 
Real soldier!

Always prepared!

Not going to admit me or any other Night Stalker ever self anesthetized or anything, but rumor north of the FLOT says it's a proven technique!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cj7ox on June 09, 2016, 11:27:40 AM
DOT-T right there ^^^

DOT Teamwork...

Not a good thing

Kinda like a scratch that turns red and starts into an infection, like that, these two

Good thing is I have surgical instruments!

If the infection gets to the point where I need to amputate, I can get it done!

How cool is that?!!?

Do I need to begin the anesthetizing now? The only thing I have available is distilled spirits...
I guess that'll do as a field expedient, right? LOL!
 
Real soldier!

Always prepared!

Not going to admit me or any other Night Stalker ever self anesthetized or anything, but rumor north of the FLOT says it's a proven technique!

I am a Cavalryman, and the saying goes.....

Never get between a Cavalryman and his booze!  ;)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on June 09, 2016, 11:36:19 AM
My Platoon in 3rd ID was actually

D troop, 3/7 Cav.

Yep, I get the Cav thing
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Nate on June 09, 2016, 12:08:05 PM
bad news don, I have not heard many good things about "garry owen" here as of late.........
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on June 09, 2016, 01:28:25 PM
DOT approved anti-bacterial=booze!!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: EL TATE on June 09, 2016, 02:16:04 PM
My best man in my wedding served 5 years in 3rd ID. Played with stuff that goes boom.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on June 09, 2016, 05:15:28 PM
bad news don, I have not heard many good things about "garry owen" here as of late.........
Fillin' their ranks with homos?

Oops did I say that???

Yea, I said that....
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Nate on June 09, 2016, 09:30:59 PM
more like toxic leadership
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on June 09, 2016, 10:29:55 PM
more like toxic leadership
Pity
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on June 09, 2016, 10:32:03 PM
So, I ran down the last of the transmission leaks. I found some connections a bit loose and snugged them up then test ran, then addressed the next and so forth until I got it to be leak free. After a several minute test run, here's what the pan looked like:
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on June 09, 2016, 10:32:51 PM
Next I sources some mulch bed springs:
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on June 09, 2016, 10:35:28 PM
These would be the original Skyjacker 6" lift springs that I took off the truck a couple of years ago. Since I need to add some leaves back in to kill the sag, Why not use some springs that held their arch for 25 years?

I cut them down then separated the individual leaves
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on June 09, 2016, 10:37:41 PM
My plan is to yank out one leaf and substitute the double military wrap leaf in there, then add in the other two leaves. Net gain should be a positive arch and two additional leaves.

Now, I have to figure out how to source a couple new and longer studs to install into the D60 housing to accommodate the thicker spring pack to come...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: moto123 on June 09, 2016, 11:23:00 PM
Umm.... why were those hiding in the landscaping?  Seems like an odd spot to store old steel.  Then again, I bet Norm has old axles hiding in his landscaping.  So maybe not that uncommon.

Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on June 09, 2016, 11:26:26 PM
Umm.... why were those hiding in the landscaping?  Seems like an odd spot to store old steel.  Then again, I bet Norm has old axles hiding in his landscaping.  So maybe not that uncommon.

Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk


No good answer...

But it surely didn't hurt them!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: swbhobie16 on June 09, 2016, 11:29:00 PM
jealous of your leak free trans. I need a deep pan I can tighten down and not have to worry about warping the lip of.. and get a bung for temp sensor. lol
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cudakidd53 on June 10, 2016, 07:48:29 AM
Perfectly normal storage location- have a core deposit battery resting outside mine for 2 years now!  Mulch preserves things!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on June 10, 2016, 08:04:43 AM
Yea, makes sense if you don't really think about it!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on June 10, 2016, 10:34:37 AM
Man I coulda used those spring for Patch LoL  Oh yeah I am supposed to be building Patch's replacement.

I get nothing done when it's 120 in the shed..and I spend 3 days fixing my Moms car so she can have AC.

Yah Know Don, ya coulda just put those old 6" springs under Square D... they likely would have been about perfect LoL



 
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: swbhobie16 on June 10, 2016, 11:47:28 AM
Yah Know Don, ya coulda just put those old 6" springs under Square D... they likely would have been about perfect LoL

shots fired! take cover!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on June 11, 2016, 11:06:05 PM
Ah, those things were 48 inchers. I'm all upgraded to the 52, a whoopin' 4" increase!

For now, I'll scratch them down, paint them and as you say, norm, toss em under the front of SquareD
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on June 13, 2016, 11:24:48 PM
Got the new (very old) spring leaves all blasted and ready to get sprayed and assembled
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on June 14, 2016, 02:30:53 AM
teaser;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1991-Chevrolet-Suburban-silverado-/252423107905?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: moto123 on June 14, 2016, 09:43:31 AM
Well that's a rare find

Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on June 14, 2016, 12:33:25 PM
Would still need to be brought up to specs. But a Ppumped, 5 speed, barned doored burb is a good start. Not a bad price either.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on June 14, 2016, 01:10:20 PM
Would still need to be brought up to specs. But a Ppumped, 5 speed, barned doored burb is a good start. Not a bad price either.
The price is not known JR. It shows a 6K current bid which has not hit the reserve. Do you have price information?
Depending on the drive train and a few other issues, not sure it is such a great buy...
Dana 60 up front of just the factory 10 bolt (junk) 14 bolt out back or a chevy 12 bolt (Also junk for this application.
Stick in a burb??? I'd hate that. No AC, no 4WD. If it was just a clearancing and hook up a driveshaft issue, you'd think he would have done that at a minimum...just sayin'
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on June 14, 2016, 01:24:34 PM
Looks like the stock drive train. I have seen these for up around 10k a few times. Yes It needs work, front DS and rear axles.

Just throwing it out for fun, still has 5 days to go and I would be surprised to see much more bidding.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on June 14, 2016, 01:49:11 PM
It's 8 lug, so 14 rear and being it's 3/4 ton most likely D-44 but possibly junk 10 bolt.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on June 14, 2016, 03:32:53 PM
Its a 10 bolt GM corp, better than the D44 but still to light for said purpose. Has the sf 9.5 (see no hubs) and the old 12 bolt went out around 1980 and never had a 8 lug.

6k would be a good price for a 12v p pump runner west coast truck.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on June 14, 2016, 03:45:59 PM
JR, you have better eye balls than I to see the lack of hub in those pics...... Guess if I used a larger screen it would help too
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on June 14, 2016, 11:29:33 PM
With having to do shopping today, then cut our 2.5 acre lawn, then work until dark on the Tac-Trac, I didn't have much time to split off here. But I did get the leaves cleaned up and coated with the acid etch primer
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Bigdave_185 on June 15, 2016, 07:17:38 PM
Looks good Don


Raising boys into RealMen!!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on June 15, 2016, 09:09:17 PM
I still have to grind the ends of the two leaves that I cut, but essentially, they are ready to mount in the existing spring pack
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on June 15, 2016, 09:17:44 PM
Looking good
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on June 15, 2016, 09:59:03 PM
That should lift the front up a little more.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: tlane3546 on June 24, 2016, 04:19:49 PM
Wheressssss theeee updateeeee Don?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on June 24, 2016, 10:37:20 PM
Wheressssss theeee updateeeee Don?
No pics, but today I charged the batteries and trouble shot why they seem to go dead in a few weeks time. I think I have a mis-match. I have a normal battery up front and a deep cycle battery out back. I think the forward battery will pull the charge out of the aft battery and there must be some minor load on the system to pull it down.

The solution to that is to pull the aft battery, strap it to the camper and put the correct battery in the aft compartment to match up with the front one.

Secondly, I was measuring up for the front spring re-pack. That will involve creating a shorter shackle so that when  the front pack goes positive arch once again, thereby raising the vehicle, I can take some of that lift out with a shorter shackle.

Lastly, I ran the motor a bit and started loosening things so I can swap the correct injectors back in. I should have that done in a day or three.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: tlane3546 on June 26, 2016, 06:37:36 PM
Don,

do you have a battery isolator setup for running dual batteries? I've wanted to put a reserve on my truck in the bed, but all the articles ive read you need an isolater, it allows the alternator to charge both batteries when need but keeps them separate otherwise. They are common in RV's that have a starting battery and then deep cells for running other things. From what I've read if you don't the 2 different batteries will drain each other and eventually go bad.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on June 26, 2016, 09:27:23 PM
Don,

do you have a battery isolator setup for running dual batteries? I've wanted to put a reserve on my truck in the bed, but all the articles ive read you need an isolater, it allows the alternator to charge both batteries when need but keeps them separate otherwise. They are common in RV's that have a starting battery and then deep cells for running other things. From what I've read if you don't the 2 different batteries will drain each other and eventually go bad.
What I have is a switchable circuit so that I can manually run from the front, isolating the aft battery, which charges from the 90 watt solar panel, or tie it in for starting if say, a stalled engine with a lot of winching runs the front battery down.

It would seem I have the wrong setup...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: tlane3546 on July 12, 2016, 07:29:19 PM
Its been too long Don, whats going on in your world???????
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 12, 2016, 09:58:19 PM
Its been too long Don, whats going on in your world???????
Need some action here on SquareD??

OK...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on July 12, 2016, 11:07:06 PM
Always!!!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Bigdave_185 on July 15, 2016, 05:32:01 PM
That's the reason I joined this forum in the first place lol


Raising boys into RealMen!!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: duramaxdarren on July 15, 2016, 06:50:05 PM
Good to see that the time away from Square D you came back more clear and can start with a fresh mind
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 15, 2016, 10:36:04 PM
Good to see that the time away from Square D you came back more clear and can start with a fresh mind
Darren!

You're still with us!

I thought you fell in a big electric service box or something!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: EL TATE on July 18, 2016, 04:27:02 PM
Nice to see you lurkin' about again EMILIOOOOO!!!!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: tlane3546 on July 18, 2016, 08:28:03 PM
NEEEEEEDDDDD ACTTTIOOONNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on July 18, 2016, 08:58:23 PM
Like that electrical grid worker in Die Hard said. "Shut it down. Shut it down now!"  This thread is over.


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Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 22, 2016, 10:00:30 PM
I started the day with swapping in the new Marine Injectors. That business went along pretty well, and after bleeding the lines, the motor fired right up.
But
It idles rough now with a bit of a lope and some of the white unburned fuel thing has come back to visit. I am not sure if after running it 15 minutes it still has some air trapped in the lines or another gremlin has come to visit. It was too hot to bleed, so I'll get to that next time I work on it
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 22, 2016, 10:04:11 PM
Next it is back to the air filter bulkhead so that I can get the snorkel system fully operational

I began with fitting the hose and that adapter I made up earlier.

However I quickly realized I would be better using the stock filter can and building something around that. So I found the old mount and cleaned it up and fitted it
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 22, 2016, 10:05:32 PM
Starting along the top fender lip, I fashioned a piece of angle aluminum to build off of
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 22, 2016, 10:07:24 PM
Then I filled the aft area with my first piece of aluminum
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 22, 2016, 10:09:20 PM
I'll be using thread-serts so that I get a professional installation and the bulkhead is easily removable

To that end I purchased a new and mo-better thread-sert setting tool
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 22, 2016, 10:10:57 PM
Earlier in this build, I was using flush mount thread-serts, however I have switched to the flange type which are     W A Y better.

Here is a test pull on a piece of scrap
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 22, 2016, 10:14:06 PM
Next, I built a mount on the low section of the inner wheel well to front radiator mount. I'll come up from there with a couple of pieces so that the thing will screw together/apart for ease of installation and maintenance
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cj7ox on July 22, 2016, 10:15:10 PM
Looking good!


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Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 22, 2016, 10:15:46 PM
Then I removed the piece I had built and riveted the pieces together and peened the backside of the rivets
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 22, 2016, 10:17:14 PM
I then installed the thread-serts and screwed that piece home with some #10-24 machine screws
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 22, 2016, 10:18:54 PM
Now believe it or not that was a lot of work and carried me all the way to past 2100

So that is the scene as of today. Have some farm playin' tomorrow, but should be able to get some work on it this Sunday
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on July 22, 2016, 11:51:27 PM
Injector swap and an airbox build. That is alot.

I take it all air will be from the snorkel?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on July 23, 2016, 08:19:55 AM
Stay on track chief. Updated punch list now??

I'm ready to see that beast buried to the axles in farm mud.


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Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 23, 2016, 09:01:35 AM
Injector swap and an airbox build. That is alot.

I take it all air will be from the snorkel?
Correct
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 23, 2016, 09:03:48 AM
Stay on track chief. Updated punch list now??

I'm ready to see that beast buried to the axles in farm mud.


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This is on track
It's just that with the heat and humidity, tackling the springs right now would have been a real problem. So I went for this which will take several days but will put this one in the bag and get that system running
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 27, 2016, 09:17:37 PM
I got back to work on the snorkel bulkhead, and got most of it done

Starting with creating a pattern and transferring that onto a fresh aluminum sheet
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 27, 2016, 09:18:14 PM
It started out looking like this:
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 27, 2016, 09:22:27 PM
I plan to fit all edges with a weather strip of some sort. I created this part it in such a way that it slides over two of the three studs which also secure the lid. Sliding the lid and filter home will pinch the bulkhead and hold it tightly
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 27, 2016, 09:24:41 PM
Then the top piece that transitions back across the air filter box to the first bulkhead section. The hole in the air cleaner box will be sealed in the final installation
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 27, 2016, 09:26:47 PM
That pretty much seals off the engine bay side of this plenum
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 27, 2016, 09:27:49 PM
I added some stiffeners to the forward bulkhead section to stiffen it up
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 27, 2016, 09:30:25 PM
Then I bent up some angle and applied some "Hook" part of Velcro to it. I think the center and lower mount would easily be secured with some Velcro pads and besides that drilling all that is difficult, even with a small angle drill
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 27, 2016, 09:32:11 PM
Next the bulkhead sections were treated to two wet coats of self etching primer to the inside surface.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 27, 2016, 09:34:40 PM
The EGT probe wire was dangling too close to the turbo for comfort, so I made up a little standoff for it. The inlet hose is on temporarily at the moment, but will soon be a permanent resident
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 27, 2016, 09:35:31 PM
And that's how she sits tonight with almost a completed snorkel system
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on July 27, 2016, 11:45:37 PM
All I can say is good work Don!


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Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 28, 2016, 09:38:53 PM
Today's objective was to finish the snorkel project and I am happy to report I got it all done!

Starting with the sealing off of the one air box hole which I didn't need to cut.

Aluminum on the outside, JB Weld on the inside
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 28, 2016, 09:41:31 PM
Then it was time to build that inside bulkhead that isolates part of the inner fender cavity and turns it into a big air plenum. TO gain access I pulled the snorkel and heat extractor louver panel

That snorkel had decided to mate with the truck. With no screws holding it on, the foam strip had managed to nearly permanently adhere to the fender
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 28, 2016, 09:43:02 PM
This bulkhead was constructed the same way as the others. You just keep trimming and marking a piece of poster board until if finally fits like you want it to
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 28, 2016, 09:43:55 PM
It fits at an angle just aft of the snorkel inlet hole
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 28, 2016, 09:45:39 PM
Using the dynamatt I attached sections to the bulkhead and the adjacent surface. It got really strong PDQ
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 28, 2016, 09:47:14 PM
Using the same technique I went all around the perimeter, completely sealing the area and creating a true plenum fed only by the snorkel
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 28, 2016, 09:48:57 PM
Some of the flush mount thread-serts had failed so I replaced them with all new pieces which have a lip for secure clamping
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 28, 2016, 09:49:34 PM
Then back on with the parts I removed
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 28, 2016, 09:51:54 PM
I placed weather stripping foam tape onto the bottom of the air box, then up the side that mated to the aft bulkhead and also on the body at every point where the bulkhead would touch
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 28, 2016, 09:52:53 PM
Then the rest of the velcro was glued to the remaining bulkhead piece
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 28, 2016, 09:53:28 PM
The K&N mounted up...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 28, 2016, 09:54:58 PM
And the pieces assembled in place.

And that finished this project!

Finally starting to close off old and outstanding projects
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Sammconn on July 28, 2016, 10:05:01 PM
Looks real good there Chief!
You left the ether warning sticker though... ::)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on July 28, 2016, 10:27:53 PM
Good job boss!

Now go drive through a river and see if she works!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Sammconn on July 28, 2016, 10:57:02 PM
Good job boss!

Now go drive the truck...

Fixed it Ken.  8)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: moto123 on July 28, 2016, 11:07:03 PM
That looks like a ton of work.  Nice job.  How will you test if it's water tight?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 29, 2016, 10:20:40 AM
Looks real good there Chief!
You left the ether warning sticker though... ::)

Ah---Just trying to keep some of the original stuff intact

I'm so nostalgic!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 29, 2016, 10:22:01 AM
That looks like a ton of work.  Nice job.  How will you test if it's water tight?

It is sealed.

It will work

Kinda of an emergency thing...I'm not going to submerge the truck or anything
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 29, 2016, 10:24:49 AM
Good job boss!

Now go drive the truck...

Fixed it Ken.  8)

Well, brakes, brake pedal, springs coming up

Then figure out the transmission thing

Then it should be driveable

Maybe the AC  as well...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: swbhobie16 on July 29, 2016, 01:36:33 PM
That looks like a ton of work.  Nice job.  How will you test if it's water tight?

It is sealed.

It will work

Kinda of an emergency thing...I'm not going to submerge the truck or anything

he can test it when the home place gets a hurricane and floods the garage..  :P

hahaha
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on July 29, 2016, 03:04:06 PM
Meh, pilots don't need brakes. Don I thought you still had some bugs to work out of the engine/injectors?


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Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on July 29, 2016, 03:09:17 PM
I was thinking the water holding pond at the local shopping mall next to all those mulch beds he's find of.....

On second thought I doubt he could get the rear wheels into the mulch bed before getting it stuck.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 29, 2016, 04:00:22 PM
Meh, pilots don't need brakes. Don I thought you still had some bugs to work out of the engine/injectors?


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I do now!

After reinstalling the marine injectors I have a stumble and a back fire thing when I rev it.

Going to bleed the injector lines with the engine running
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 29, 2016, 04:02:00 PM
I was thinking the water holding pond at the local shopping mall next to all those mulch beds he's find of.....

On second thought I doubt he could get the rear wheels into the mulch bed before getting it stuck.
Malls, mulch beds, mud...generally things that start with the letter "M" are Much to hazardous a site to test anything except kamikaze pilots!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on July 29, 2016, 04:56:54 PM
Outstanding. Now just get it running smooth for a test.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: swbhobie16 on July 29, 2016, 05:15:46 PM
for what it's worth.. I hooked up the new line on my dads 5.9 unbled and just cranked it up. ran like 'blrahh.. blrahh..blrahh..' for maybe 5 seconds and flattened right out. that was only one though. I wonder if the studder you're experiencing is because of timing/fueling since the marine injector swap? as in.. might need more timing to account for bigger injectors (if my thinking is correct)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 29, 2016, 09:55:58 PM
for what it's worth.. I hooked up the new line on my dads 5.9 unbled and just cranked it up. ran like 'blrahh.. blrahh..blrahh..' for maybe 5 seconds and flattened right out. that was only one though. I wonder if the studder you're experiencing is because of timing/fueling since the marine injector swap? as in.. might need more timing to account for bigger injectors (if my thinking is correct)
I don't think so
Stock is 12.5 BTDC
I set the timing on this retune to 18 degrees BTDC
That should be spot on or at least in the middle of the sweet zone for big injectors, fuel plate and the rest of the magic.

Air in the line or a bad new injector

Remember I mounted up a perfectly bad new lift pump, so anything's possible!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 29, 2016, 10:11:36 PM
I just went out and started it, but its acting like a gas engine with a bad spark plug
Backfires on acceleration
has a very low, rump, rump, rump idle
Still blowing out some white smoke (Unburned fuel)
Rev it and let of the throttle and the engine dies
I have to slowly bring it down to the low idle for it to remain running

Wayne found some tiny brass like metal filings in the fuel cups when we partially disassembled the injection pump. I'm wondering if one or several of those made it down stream to foul the micro passages in those injectors???

But part of the problem has persisted. Even when it was running more normally with the stock injectors, it was idling and puffing out some white smoke that smells like unburned fuel.

It's not going to be easy to sort this thing out with so many sub systems not working yet. I still need to get the brakes working. I still need to sort out the transmission and that isn't going to be easy with an engine that is not running correctly. But It will have to run some and the trans work to pull it onto a trailer to haul it over to a decent diesel mechanic to make it right.

I have some cliffs to scale still before this thing becomes usable...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on July 29, 2016, 11:30:18 PM
Tow trucks are outfitted with winches nowadays, if you're gunna break down & use a mechanic might as well throw $75 at a tow bill........
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on July 30, 2016, 12:49:32 AM
Sure that timing isn't advanced just a tad to far?

18 is on the high end with 12.5 normal. Maybe back it down to around 15-16 and see if it smooths out with the large injectors.

Then call AAA,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: swbhobie16 on July 30, 2016, 08:16:37 AM
mine is set to 15.5* with what are supposed to be 90 HP injectors. the thing cranks and runs like a top. a cummins guy told me anything over about 17 will result in harder starts and will need more fuel..

can't wait to see it running down the road..
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: swbhobie16 on July 30, 2016, 08:19:39 AM
wait.. how long has it run. like.. in total? when we got my dads engine I dont know when the last time it ran. we checked the oil, primed it as best we could and fired it up. it smoked, beat, banged knocked and wouldn't run under ~1k rpm for a few minutes is I recall. but after that, it flattened right out and cranks easy with no issues coming back to idle.

but for the first few minutes of its new life.. she wasn't happy.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 30, 2016, 09:54:37 AM
Sure that timing isn't advanced just a tad to far?

18 is on the high end with 12.5 normal. Maybe back it down to around 15-16 and see if it smooths out with the large injectors.

Then call AAA,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

My bad, The timing is set to 16.5 degrees, not 18

Had to research my own posts...Found it on post 410 this thread:

? Reply #410 on: December 01, 2015, 05:55:13 PM ?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on July 31, 2016, 01:40:45 PM
Here's what it is looking like at the moment

Still a lot of red showing!

Square D Punch-out list
Green:   Completed
Yellow: In progress
Purple: Awaiting parts
Red: Not completed

Install stainless hardware to aux fuel door, repaint mount plate
Seal fuel filler port/repair leak
Fabricate fender well bulkhead/Install air cleaner
Close off back of right fender well
Connect air intake to turbo
Find/repair transmission leak
Install Lift pump
Reconnect fuel supply lines
Install Overflow valve
Reinstall Marine injectors

Wire up top area illumination lights

Connect Brake pedal
Connect Proportioning valve?strange fittings??
Fill and bleed brake system
Relocate left front limb riser cable mount
Relocate throttle cable
Mount AC condenser
Run AC lines
Hook up AC system, bleed/charge
Figure out AC wiring to use factory switch
Install air filter to cab air
Install convoluted wire loom covering on top/exterior wires
Fabricate sill plates/secure carpet and wiring
Figure out/repair dome light
Install foot well lights
Label overhead switches
Install transfer case 4WD indicator switch in top of case (OUCH!)
Figure out/install transmission wiring from two-prong switch
Install overdrive switch?New model shift lever/switch??
Reinstall fuel shutoff plate
Install momentary grid heater switch next to fuel shutoff
Install aux fuel tank fuel level gage
Connect fuel transfer pump switch from aux tank
Install 10 psi Hobbs switch to H2O injection
Hook up rear air bag lines
Replace rear taillight sockets and secure harness
Top off power steering fluid
Replace aft deep cycle battery with normal unit
Gage cluster:   
   Figure out/repair the half of the lights that don?t work
   Figure out/repair speedometer
   Mount tachometer/ hook up and get working
Build left door panel or repair and install factory panel
**Install new Silverado rear springs
**Install rear shackle flip system
**Install new front leaf spring mount on rear springs
**Fab up rear entry door to replace rear hatch and tail gate
**Modify rear topper top to a flip up design
**Fabricate rock rails
**Fabricate rear ?Surprise? module
**Fabricate smoke generator
**Fab up rear folding bunk
**Fab up storage for bed
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Sammconn on July 31, 2016, 01:57:49 PM
Whew!
Still quite a list to do.
Good news is it's shrinking, and some are small/trivial, and non show stoppers.
Some will be a challenge, t-case...ouch.

Keep atter there Chief, the end is coming...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on July 31, 2016, 05:04:08 PM
I don't feel as bad with Spartan after seeing that.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: tlane3546 on September 08, 2016, 09:39:12 PM
Don,
Did you ever add a spring from the old dodge pack to your chechevy packs to help with the flatness??
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 09, 2016, 09:08:09 AM
Don,
Did you ever add a spring from the old dodge pack to your chechevy packs to help with the flatness??
No is the short answer...

The other leaves are sitting right there next to the truck, but not installed yet!

They will be, but this farm thing is definitely eating my time
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: tlane3546 on September 09, 2016, 09:11:45 AM
Another question, have you driven the truck yet enough  to see how the front springs feel? And do you think a dodge leaf will ruin the nicer ride? Im asking because my chevy 52s are doing the same and i have my dodge packs to disect
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 09, 2016, 09:22:01 AM
Another question, have you driven the truck yet enough  to see how the front springs feel? And do you think a dodge leaf will ruin the nicer ride? Im asking because my chevy 52s are doing the same and i have my dodge packs to disect
No, I haven't driven it at all

It is not done

Just paused

Has no brakes yet,

Linkages need to be invented

Transmission cable/wiring needs to go in

No AC system yet

Some electrical things to sort out

It is still just a project...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on September 09, 2016, 10:09:49 AM
Driving the truck would call for video!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cj7ox on September 09, 2016, 12:03:56 PM
THIS JUST IN! BIG D IS QOUTED AS STATING THAT SQUARE D IS JUST "A PROJECT" AND WON'T BE DRIVEN! THIS REPORTER, AFTER SPINNING AND DISSECTING STATEMENTS FROM THE RMT&S READERSHIP, AND THROUGH CAREFUL EDUCATED ANALYSIS, BELIEVES THAT THE SQUARE D "PROJECT" IS AN ATTEMPT BY DEMOCRATIC PARTY LEADERSHIP TO DISTRACT CONSERVATIVES FROM THE HEINOUS ACTS OF THEIR CANDIDATE BY ENCOURAGING THEM TO STARE AT SQUARE D TOPICS ON THE INTERNET FOR MANY HOURS EACH DAY HOPING FOR AN UPDATE! THIS REPORTER BELIEVES THAT ALL PICTORIAL EVIDENCE OF THE EXISTENCE OF THE SO-CALLED SQUARE D IS FALSE, AND OR PHOTOSHOPPED FROM OTHER "PROJECTS" AROUND THE INTERWEB! READING THIS WILL LEAD TO ENLIGHTENMENT, AND THE PROBABLE "FIRING" OF THIS REPORTER! BEWARE!  8) :o ;D ;)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on September 09, 2016, 12:51:22 PM
LOLROF
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on September 09, 2016, 01:27:09 PM
Oh boy. I don't know that guy, and didn't have anything to do with his "reporting" bossman.....I tried deleting his craziness, but for some reason my fingers wouldn't let me! Please don't fire me again....
....matter of fact, for some reason, I think Shawn and him are neighbors and partners in crime...yeah that's what it is!! Fire them both for such blastphemy!!!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cudakidd53 on September 09, 2016, 01:41:46 PM
I've met Don........

HE'S NO DEMOCRAT AND THIS IS NOT A FEINT........MULCH MUST BE DRIVEN ON SOON!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on September 09, 2016, 02:12:47 PM
Way I hear it Ken has a super secret mission planned to install an H bumper sticker on the rolling parts bin. That's how I heard it anyhow...... ::)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cj7ox on September 09, 2016, 03:12:26 PM
LOL!


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Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on September 09, 2016, 03:53:31 PM
That sticker may be on there for some time before discovered,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on September 09, 2016, 05:06:13 PM
THIS JUST IN! BIG D IS QOUTED AS STATING THAT SQUARE D IS JUST "A PROJECT" AND WON'T BE DRIVEN! THIS REPORTER, AFTER SPINNING AND DISSECTING STATEMENTS FROM THE RMT&S READERSHIP, AND THROUGH CAREFUL EDUCATED ANALYSIS, BELIEVES THAT THE SQUARE D "PROJECT" IS AN ATTEMPT BY DEMOCRATIC PARTY LEADERSHIP TO DISTRACT CONSERVATIVES FROM THE HEINOUS ACTS OF THEIR CANDIDATE BY ENCOURAGING THEM TO STARE AT SQUARE D TOPICS ON THE INTERNET FOR MANY HOURS EACH DAY HOPING FOR AN UPDATE! THIS REPORTER BELIEVES THAT ALL PICTORIAL EVIDENCE OF THE EXISTENCE OF THE SO-CALLED SQUARE D IS FALSE, AND OR PHOTOSHOPPED FROM OTHER "PROJECTS" AROUND THE INTERWEB! READING THIS WILL LEAD TO ENLIGHTENMENT, AND THE PROBABLE "FIRING" OF THIS REPORTER! BEWARE!  8) :o ;D ;)

?It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong.?

Voltaire
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 09, 2016, 08:44:54 PM
You people are fortunate

I've been studying grace...

I really don't want to practice it, especially on that Cav guy

But its training for me. I'm workin on my sensitive side! ;)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on September 09, 2016, 09:27:27 PM
Eph 2 5-8 ;)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on September 09, 2016, 11:34:36 PM
i went 4-10

But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead [f]in our transgressions, made us alive together [g]with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and [h]that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 10, 2016, 08:21:24 AM
Well!

Finally

A D.O.T

We can all be proud of and

is actually worth something

Good work menses!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: husker77c on September 29, 2016, 11:21:26 PM
Man I've been off of here awhile.  Just getting caught up.   Fantastic work on the snorkel. 
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on September 30, 2016, 08:49:51 AM
That was a while ago!

I take it you mean the inside fender and engine bay mods to make it all work

THat was fun

I am itchin' to get back on it, but I have a bigger itch down at the farm at the moment
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on September 30, 2016, 10:48:42 AM
Do tell, you have been awful quiet all around.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on October 12, 2016, 10:32:02 AM
All tied up doing farm stuff
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on October 12, 2016, 04:06:44 PM
So I see now that I found thread #2. Still catching up.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Bigdave_185 on January 01, 2017, 09:04:54 PM
So so we delete this thread from a lack of progress ?


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Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cj7ox on January 03, 2017, 09:26:17 AM
THIS JUST IN! THE SQUARE D BUILD THREAD(S) WILL SOON BE DELETED! THE PROJECT HAS BEEN STALLED FOR SO LONG THAT THE POOR DERELICT SHELL OF A VEHICLE HAS SUCCUMBED TO THE EVERY INCREASING WEIGHT OF THE VILE, DESTRUCTIVE DUST THAT "BIG D" HAS ALLOWED TO BUILD UPON HER POOR NEGLECTED BODY. SHE HAS BEEN REDUCED TO HER BASE ELEMENTS, AND RUMOR HAS IT, WILL BE USED AS MULCH FOR MRS. D'S LOVELY FLOWER GARDEN. AS WE ARE RAISED FROM THE DUST, SO SHALL WE RETURN TO IT. REST IN PEACE SQUARE D!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on January 03, 2017, 01:03:53 PM
THIS JUST IN! THE SQUARE D BUILD THREAD(S) WILL SOON BE DELETED! THE PROJECT HAS BEEN STALLED FOR SO LONG THAT THE POOR DERELICT SHELL OF A VEHICLE HAS SUCCUMBED TO THE EVERY INCREASING WEIGHT OF THE VILE, DESTRUCTIVE DUST THAT "BIG D" HAS ALLOWED TO BUILD UPON HER POOR NEGLECTED BODY. SHE HAS BEEN REDUCED TO HER BASE ELEMENTS, AND RUMOR HAS IT, WILL BE USED AS MULCH FOR MRS. D'S LOVELY FLOWER GARDEN. AS WE ARE RAISED FROM THE DUST, SO SHALL WE RETURN TO IT. REST IN PEACE SQUARE D!
You don't be careful, and You'll soon be deleted!  ;-))
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on January 03, 2017, 01:05:11 PM
^^^See how I got him right there ^^^^^
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: EL TATE on January 03, 2017, 01:23:19 PM
I like what you did there.  :beercheers: :facepalm: :popcorn: :knucklehead:

(thanks Kyle)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Bigdave_185 on January 03, 2017, 02:07:48 PM
I don't get it lol


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Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on January 03, 2017, 02:20:13 PM
With the cold wet weather, you would think tweaking on SD would be right up on the list.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: OldKooT on January 03, 2017, 02:49:57 PM
What we need is a scheduled intervention...we all show up with beer, meat to grill, and tools. We can spend a few hours finishing the truck so it runs and drives, and the rest of the time can be spent convincing Dons Neighbors that real estate in that area just dropped significantly.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on January 03, 2017, 02:51:45 PM
I like that idea. Then we can buy all the surrounding land.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on January 03, 2017, 02:53:09 PM
Still don't see the "like" button.....


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Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Bigdave_185 on January 03, 2017, 04:06:11 PM
Subd for progress


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Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on January 03, 2017, 04:47:09 PM
Subd for progress


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Really?? Glutton for punishment , eh?


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Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on January 03, 2017, 08:04:34 PM
I'm likin' Koot's thinkin'

I am just stayin' covered up with that farm stuff. But I feel a bunch mo-better today, so maybe I'll get out there and set the idle. I need to get that done, thing idles too slow...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Bigdave_185 on January 03, 2017, 10:37:47 PM
See a little poke in the side is all.  We still love you Don


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Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: swbhobie16 on January 03, 2017, 10:44:42 PM
scheduled intervention or not.. count me in.
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Dawg25385 on January 03, 2017, 11:40:27 PM
Still don't see the "like" button.....


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 :likebutton:

squeaky wheel gets the grease
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on January 04, 2017, 12:28:31 AM
Edit: had a slip of the tongue there for a min..... :tongue:
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Sammconn on January 04, 2017, 09:07:20 AM
 :likebutton:
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cj7ox on January 04, 2017, 12:16:48 PM
THIS JUST IN! THE SQUARE D BUILD THREAD(S) WILL SOON BE DELETED! THE PROJECT HAS BEEN STALLED FOR SO LONG THAT THE POOR DERELICT SHELL OF A VEHICLE HAS SUCCUMBED TO THE EVERY INCREASING WEIGHT OF THE VILE, DESTRUCTIVE DUST THAT "BIG D" HAS ALLOWED TO BUILD UPON HER POOR NEGLECTED BODY. SHE HAS BEEN REDUCED TO HER BASE ELEMENTS, AND RUMOR HAS IT, WILL BE USED AS MULCH FOR MRS. D'S LOVELY FLOWER GARDEN. AS WE ARE RAISED FROM THE DUST, SO SHALL WE RETURN TO IT. REST IN PEACE SQUARE D!
You don't be careful, and You'll soon be deleted!  ;-))
LOL! Just doing my part to 1. Make sure you don't forget what that is in the garage covered in dust, and 2. Keeping the thread alive.  :azn:
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on January 04, 2017, 12:28:23 PM
Maybe we can auction it off to help the needy?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on January 04, 2017, 12:34:45 PM
THIS JUST IN! THE SQUARE D BUILD THREAD(S) WILL SOON BE DELETED! THE PROJECT HAS BEEN STALLED FOR SO LONG THAT THE POOR DERELICT SHELL OF A VEHICLE HAS SUCCUMBED TO THE EVERY INCREASING WEIGHT OF THE VILE, DESTRUCTIVE DUST THAT "BIG D" HAS ALLOWED TO BUILD UPON HER POOR NEGLECTED BODY. SHE HAS BEEN REDUCED TO HER BASE ELEMENTS, AND RUMOR HAS IT, WILL BE USED AS MULCH FOR MRS. D'S LOVELY FLOWER GARDEN. AS WE ARE RAISED FROM THE DUST, SO SHALL WE RETURN TO IT. REST IN PEACE SQUARE D!
You don't be careful, and You'll soon be deleted!  ;-))
LOL! Just doing my part to 1. Make sure you don't forget what that is in the garage covered in dust, and 2. Keeping the thread alive.  :azn:
No worries mate!

Just saw the opportunity to take the shot, it was clear below, there was no danger, so I took it!

Oh and BTW, I paid the little PR 1.5 hours to clean that garage up so I could get out there without picking up some unknown infection

Note: My boys are not allowed on electronics of any knod. They must earn every minute of play time. So by cleaning the garage, the little PR earned 1.5 hours of play time on modern warfare. He missed the bus this morning, so he lost his privileges once again...
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on January 04, 2017, 12:35:36 PM
Maybe we can auction it off to help the needy?
Crazy talk right there!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: swbhobie16 on January 07, 2017, 05:56:58 AM
i'm sure that more than one family has been happily and healthily fed from 'donations' to various aftermarket companies, machine shops, CL sellers and home improvement stores over the last year or so.  to sell it at this point would be double dipping. hahah
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on January 07, 2017, 09:17:41 AM
You know, I'd be up for selling it for a good cause...or auctioning it off, but only if the money really went to help someone desperately in need. Someone God placed on my heart for help

Like some depressed snowflake needing more counseling and with a low balance on his Starbucks card

Had ya didn't I!

Truth is, anything I own is the Lords, period

If he sells it to give the money to a snow flake or a snowball, well, I'd just have to say "He's the Lord, and smarter than me."
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cj7ox on January 09, 2017, 10:55:32 AM
You know, I'd be up for selling it for a good cause...or auctioning it off, but only if the money really went to help someone desperately in need. Someone God placed on my heart for help

Like some depressed snowflake needing more counseling and with a low balance on his Starbucks card

Had ya didn't I!

Truth is, anything I own is the Lords, period

If he sells it to give the money to a snow flake or a snowball, well, I'd just have to say "He's the Lord, and smarter than me."
You wouldn't get much for it, unless it runs! LOL
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: KensAuto on January 09, 2017, 04:54:15 PM
Wow Sean. Just wow.

I'm sure glad that I've matured, and don't participate in these childish snarks towards Don, anymore.



(That was a good one bud!!!)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cj7ox on January 09, 2017, 05:18:13 PM
Maverick: The shot was there, there was no danger, so I took it!

CO (or in this case, Big D): AND BROKE A MAJOR RULE OF ENGAGEMENT!!!!

LOL! Thought I'd go ahead and preempt the butt chewing a bit. LOL!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Nate on January 09, 2017, 08:07:07 PM
you farked up sean!  you forgot the most important pre sentence "with all do respect cur!".................. :shocked:  :popcorn:
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on January 09, 2017, 09:12:21 PM
I'm like Santa Clause

I'm watchin'

Whose naughty and who's nice

So far not many of the latter!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cj7ox on January 09, 2017, 09:13:34 PM
you farked up sean!  you forgot the most important pre sentence "with all do respect cur!".................. :shocked:  :popcorn:
Dagnabbit! You're right!


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Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: TexasRedNeck on January 10, 2017, 02:34:04 PM
Someone else has to get fired before I can be resinstated


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Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on January 10, 2017, 05:02:58 PM
Someone else has to get fired before I can be resinstated


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h, I got so goobered up that I forgot to pull all your rights and privlidges, so you never got fired or banned or anything.

Guess I'll just let it all pass

This time!

;-)
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Bigdave_185 on January 16, 2017, 09:52:10 PM
You guys are just simply out of control


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Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on January 17, 2017, 01:02:38 AM
Any progress? Pics to confirm you still own said object, like one with a recent newspaper & date visible...... :popcorn:
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on January 17, 2017, 09:48:24 AM
Any progress? Pics to confirm you still own said object, like one with a recent newspaper & date visible...... :popcorn:
I understand.

Doubting Thomas even asked our Lord to stick his finger into the nail holes to confirm Jesus was still real!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Bigdave_185 on January 17, 2017, 11:37:26 PM
Did you just compare Jesus to a trucklol


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Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on January 17, 2017, 11:38:04 PM
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on January 18, 2017, 01:46:22 PM
Did you just compare Jesus to a trucklol


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Heavens no!
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: stlaser on January 18, 2017, 02:00:42 PM
However, he did imply once that he believed Jesus would drive a truck if he had such a need.....

 :popcorn:
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Bigdave_185 on January 18, 2017, 09:48:50 PM
Would Jesus drive a truck or a nice affordable car, simple mini van to haul people places?


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Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: rpar86 on January 18, 2017, 11:28:37 PM
WWJD?

What Would Jesus Drive?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: JR on January 19, 2017, 01:33:23 AM
WWJD?

What Would Jesus Drive?

A truck that runs,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Nate on January 19, 2017, 10:37:33 PM
I would venture to say a KIA............................... :popcorn:
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: swbhobie16 on January 20, 2017, 06:55:11 AM
no no no..

it says it right there in the good book.. they all left in one ACCORD!

hahah
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: cj7ox on January 20, 2017, 01:08:49 PM
no no no..

it says it right there in the good book.. they all left in one ACCORD!

hahah

ROFLMAO!!!
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: tlane3546 on November 17, 2017, 02:22:48 PM
So I tak ea hiatus for a few months and everything just stops?
Title: Re: SquareD Part 7 Start it up!
Post by: Flyin6 on November 18, 2017, 08:05:24 AM
So, you're the one who caused this work stoppage??? :cry: