REAL MAN TRUCKWORKS & SURVIVAL

WEAPONS => Firearms => Topic started by: cudakidd53 on August 03, 2016, 06:58:50 PM

Title: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on August 03, 2016, 06:58:50 PM
Okay, I've been tossing around the idea of putting together one from a smorgasbord of available parts and all, but need some help/guidance and suggestions.  Will be using a Spikes Tactical billet lower & upper.

-Accepts any AR style Bolt Carrier, Bolt & Barrel.
-Barrel Nut: SR25 or DPMS (? Difference of the two?)
-Handguard Rail Height: SR25, DPMS High, Armalite AR10 (? How will suitable ones be identified?)
-Trigger Group: Any AR compatible trigger (? Anti-rotation pins etc. too?)

So, some barrels come without a gas block - what's the best option(s) for a barrel without one? Gas tubes?  My desire is a top quality barrel to try and maximize accuracy etc. and I'm leaning towards 18" for a balance between that and maneuverability. 

Stock and buffer tube - looking for telescoping over a dedicated marksman style - I'm assuming AR15 aren't compatible (especially buffer, but are other stock parts different too?

Is this something I should undertake as an assembly "virgin" ie; different/more complex vs. AR15?

I have no set schedule on this as it'll be "One piece at a time"......though not a Johnny Cash style build......I hope I don't start coming across gun parts at work! :o

Looking forward to the exchanges- DOTing and overall banter this will elicit!
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: TexasRedNeck on August 03, 2016, 07:01:14 PM
Bartlein or Noveske barrel would be my suggestion along with the giessele DMR trigger. Other than that the rest is superfluous.


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Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on August 03, 2016, 07:40:25 PM
Hey TRN, does Noveske make a .308 barrel?  Couldn't find any .308 on their site -
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: stlaser on August 03, 2016, 07:54:00 PM
On the hand guard height do yourself a favor & call Midwest ind & let them tell you what they make. There are about 5 (my last count I know of) different heights.....

Adjustable gas block is a must..

& my last suggestion is buy a complete upper assembled with bcg.
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on August 03, 2016, 08:02:05 PM
Another question TRN - at Bartlein, how would I go about having them make a barrel for an AR10 - I wouldn't know what to ask for as it appears that everything is made to order custom, not sure about is they "finish" like salt nitride bath etc.

Shawn, adjustable gas block on a "non suppressed" rifle and without a piston?

As I've mentioned, my knowledge/experience base with building something like this is very shallow- LOL!
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: KensAuto on August 03, 2016, 08:56:42 PM
Must be in the air. I personally will be buying a complete upper and milling an 80 lower. The one I'm leaning towards is a Juggernaut.
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: stlaser on August 03, 2016, 09:46:36 PM
Another question TRN - at Bartlein, how would I go about having them make a barrel for an AR10 - I wouldn't know what to ask for as it appears that everything is made to order custom, not sure about is they "finish" like salt nitride bath etc.

Shawn, adjustable gas block on a "non suppressed" rifle and without a piston?

As I've mentioned, my knowledge/experience base with building something like this is very shallow- LOL!

The AR-15 designed system is over gassed in all reality, most function just fine w/o an adjustable gas block. A lot of guys will run heavy buffers etc to compensate for any slight issues. If you suppress an AR-15 or run it FA then you see those issues increase or become more apparent. So then we step up to a much higher pressure cartridge in the AR-10 which makes that same style "design" system show its attitude sooner. Do yourself a favor & order the adjustable gas block if you decide to build your own upper. They aren't hard to dial in if you run the same ammo, realize my Ruger has two gas settings on it from the factory as well, so apparently that was their work around on the different ammo issues.....
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: TexasRedNeck on August 04, 2016, 12:35:12 AM
You can call Bartlein directly or, If it were me, I would call Moon at GA Precision and have him build you a barrel with extension and match the bolt.  Or just send him your upper and have him put it together.  The trigger and the barrel/bolt are what makes an accurate weapon.  GA builds a 3/8 inch MOA or better 308.  I've seen it.  I got my ass kicked by a San Antonio PD SWAT team member who ran a GA Precision AR10 against my GA Precision Remy 700 Bolt gun.

Once you run an uber accurate AR10, you'll never go back to anything else under 700 meters.
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on August 04, 2016, 08:02:25 AM
You can call Bartlein directly or, If it were me, I would call Moon at GA Precision and have him build you a barrel with extension and match the bolt.  Or just send him your upper and have him put it together.  The trigger and the barrel/bolt are what makes an accurate weapon.  GA builds a 3/8 inch MOA or better 308.  I've seen it.  I got my ass kicked by a San Antonio PD SWAT team member who ran a GA Precision AR10 against my GA Precision Remy 700 Bolt gun.

Once you run an uber accurate AR10, you'll never go back to anything else under 700 meters.

Thanks!  That's the type of information I need - I did look at GA Precision via the Bartlein website; interesting how bad many sites are for overall information!  GA Precision's just doesn't play nice with tablet platforms!

Keep those cards and letters coming.......(old quote there!)
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: TexasRedNeck on August 04, 2016, 08:23:16 AM
Yeah. It was hilarious. We were in a 60 man competition.  We got to the 500yd mover stage and setup one by one on the back of an 18 wheeler flatbed. I was about 45th or so and no one had run the bell in the mover more than 7-8 times down and back. I ripped off 11 hits threw the bolt back and grinned. Homeboy steps up and rips off 15 with the AR-10. I could beat him on everything outside 700 meters but as I learned very few competitions I've been in had m very many stages with shots beyond 800.


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Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on August 04, 2016, 02:59:46 PM
Hey Charles-

FYI- Moon has left GA Precision and opened his own shop called Crescent Customs; I've initiated contact with him via email regarding assembling an finished upper using my supplied upper receiver.

Anyone have recommendations for an appropriate 30 cal. muzzle break/flash suppressor?  Oh, how I wish my state was one of the "enlightened" ones that allowed a true suppressor! >:(
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: BobbyB on August 04, 2016, 05:26:41 PM
Hey Charles-

FYI- Moon has left GA Precision and opened his own shop called Crescent Customs; I've initiated contact with him via email regarding assembling an finished upper using my supplied upper receiver.

Anyone have recommendations for an appropriate 30 cal. muzzle break/flash suppressor?  Oh, how I wish my state was one of the "enlightened" ones that allowed a true suppressor! >:(


Do you want a brake OR a flash suppressor?

LOUD noises and big flash, OR small flash, still relatively loud.

Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: TexasRedNeck on August 04, 2016, 06:33:45 PM
Muzzle brakes make enemies on the firing line and suppressors make friends


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Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on August 04, 2016, 07:53:22 PM
Bobby and Charles:  looking for something that counters muzzle rise for a quicker follow-up shot (usually listed as a flash suppressor?)
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: TexasRedNeck on August 04, 2016, 09:33:49 PM
A break directs and controls gas to reduce or redirect recoil.

They are loud, but effective.  I'm guessing IL is not a suppressor friendly state?

Here is a bill that is being worked

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/BillStatus.asp?DocNum=433&GAID=13&DocTypeID=HB&LegId=84796&SessionID=88

You could get a break that will accept a suppresor and hope the bill gets passed.

https://thunderbeastarms.com/products/ultra-5
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on August 04, 2016, 10:30:18 PM
Great option there TRN!  I can always hope it'll pass, but seems as likely as Ken's girlfriend addressing the opening session of the NRA.........one can always dream!   ;)
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: TexasRedNeck on August 04, 2016, 10:43:40 PM
I have two TB suppressors and they maintain accuracy very very well. Minimal POI shift too. Let's hope IL will pass something that makes sense.


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Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: BobbyB on August 05, 2016, 02:54:44 AM
Bobby and Charles:  looking for something that counters muzzle rise for a quicker follow-up shot (usually listed as a flash suppressor?)

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCMGUNFIGHTER-Compensator-MOD-1-7-62-300-black-p/bcm-gfc-mod-1-762.htm
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on August 08, 2016, 09:14:31 PM
It's here!
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on August 08, 2016, 09:20:31 PM
Hey there Charles- GA Precision is no longer taking any work for semi-autos!  Only doing their own GAR-10, so not sure where else to turn for something of similar quality.
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: TexasRedNeck on August 08, 2016, 10:24:50 PM
I guess its been a while since I've talked to those guys.

Moon built two rifles for me (bolt action)  If he says he can build your AR upper, I would trust him.

GAP is getting a cult following now and I guess they can afford to turn down work.

Here is a survey of the top 50 precision rifle competitors in the country and what they use.  Might be a good place to start. 
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: Dawg25385 on August 09, 2016, 12:25:08 AM
What about the Surefire socom for the brake? Nice brake, and you can screw a can on later if able.
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: BobbyB on August 09, 2016, 02:33:17 AM
Griffin Armament has good muzzle devices.

https://www.griffinarmament.com/category-s/1833.htm?searching=Y&sort=5&cat=1833&show=30&page=1

30SD:
https://www.griffinarmament.com/30SD-Muzzle-Devices-p/xhp30sd.htm

Taper Mount (30 cal)
https://www.griffinarmament.com/Taper-Mount-Flash-Suppressor-p/tmfs.htm

OTB (30 cal)
https://www.griffinarmament.com/product-p/otbmd.htm



EDIT:

Ok Cuda, I was thinking about this at work this morning during a lull. Have you contacted Justin at Integrity? They might be able to put something together for you using your upper, as they offer these barrel selections. Plus with you being a previous customer you can probably work out a deal.

http://www.customar15.net/shop/ar-15-upper-receivers/bolt-carrier-group-and-parts/black-hole-weaponry-308-barrel-bcm-gunfighter-package/

http://www.customar15.net/shop/ar-15-upper-receivers/barrels-ar-15-upper-receivers/black-hole-weaponry-16%E2%80%B3-match-barrel-lt-mid-308/

http://www.customar15.net/shop/ar-15-upper-receivers/barrels-ar-15-upper-receivers/black-hole-weaponry-20%E2%80%B3-match-barrel-std-rifle-308/

Plus the BCGs and etc:

http://www.customar15.net/shop/ar-15-upper-receivers/bolt-carrier-group-and-parts/aero-precision-308-7-62-bcg-w-forward-assist-complete-phosphate/

http://www.customar15.net/shop/ar-15-upper-receivers/bolt-carrier-group-and-parts/bcmvltor-gunfighter-charging-handle-7-62-308-mod-3-large-latch/

Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on August 09, 2016, 10:05:14 AM
Good idea there Bobby!  I did just refer my brother to them for an M4 yesterday- I've not really noticed them doing anything in .308 when I've cruised their site.  I'll shoot them an email and inquire!  Nice part is that they can ship a finished upper to me direct!
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: BobbyB on August 09, 2016, 10:24:03 AM
Good idea there Bobby!  I did just refer my brother to them for an M4 yesterday- I've not really noticed them doing anything in .308 when I've cruised their site.  I'll shoot them an email and inquire!  Nice part is that they can ship a finished upper to me direct!

I copied and pasted most of the 308 stuff i saw on their site, and they do say in one of their disclaimer things that if you don't see a configuration you want, call and they MIGHT be able to do it. So it's worth a shot (pun wasn't intended...).

As for your handguard, measure the tang, just above where the charging handle sits when it's forward. Call Midwest Industries and see what they have. If they have something check it out on their site, and then drive the short drive north over the border and pick it up.
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on August 19, 2016, 05:57:11 PM
Coming up empty on all of TRN's suggested sources as well as Bobby's buddy at Integrity Arms, so I came across what I hope is another option and wanted to know if anyone has any information about this company- Kreiger Barrels in Richfield, WI?  From their website, their shortest barrel is 20" so longer than my desired 18" plan - from those of you with far more experience than I with the AR10 platform, how much will those extra 2" (4 more than my AR15) effect agility of motion with the weapon in an "competition" requiring movement, and close quarter settings?

I plan on contacting them at some point, once I know and have assembled all the parts to complete an upper, as they'll do final assembly etc. with my supplied parts as well as fitting of bolt etc to the barrel and extension.

Any insight on Kreiger is much appreciated-

Mike
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: stlaser on August 19, 2016, 06:25:22 PM
I've heard of them but Bobby is probably a second cousin or something, maybe even Nate!

What the end use for the gun? 20" is getting pretty long for close quarters anything in my limited opinion......
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on August 19, 2016, 07:21:14 PM
That's my, unqualified thought as well- I figure I'll call them to see if there's any possibility of them making it 18" once I figure out and assemble all the "parts" they'll require.  They want a stripped bolt to "match" to the barrel extension/lugs etc. without ejector parts etc.  I have no clue how to go about taking one apart that's been "staked" so I could use some insights there for sure.

With ALL the parts out there, I'm in need of a "list" of what I really need-  I know I'll need: adjustable gas block, handguard and appropriate barrel nut (or will Krieger supply?), correct length gas tube, bolt and carrier and compensator.

What am I missing, overlooking?
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: Sammconn on August 19, 2016, 07:26:03 PM
Have you actually talked to anyone there?
They may be able to assemble the parts as well, as in have them, I'm not sure.
I think they likely would shorten the barrel as well, they do make them.

I have heard of them, but that it all.
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on August 19, 2016, 07:32:52 PM
Have you actually talked to anyone there?
They may be able to assemble the parts as well, as in have them, I'm not sure.
I think they likely would shorten the barrel as well, they do make them.

I have heard of them, but that it all.

All that I've read on their site stated they'd assemble from supplied parts.....they make, fit and finish barrels and "will" assemble upper, but all they sell is machine services, barrels (some finishing like bead blast) etc. and only list 20" as their shortest......will call before Fall as I squirrel away stuff.....money etc.
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: stlaser on August 19, 2016, 07:41:14 PM
Did you already but the stripped upper? May be easier to buy a complete upper assembled.....
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on August 19, 2016, 07:59:24 PM
Did you already but the stripped upper? May be easier to buy a complete upper assembled.....

It won't have a "highly" accurate barrel then- :(
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: stlaser on August 19, 2016, 09:03:08 PM
So no one assembles a complete upper that is "highly" accurate? ???

I guess what I was thinking was you were throwing a wrench in it by wanting to supply the stripped upper. Surely, someone is building an accurate complete upper that would fit your definition of such.......
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on August 19, 2016, 09:32:20 PM
That initial company that TRN suggested does, but is proprietary to their complete weapon!  They no longer do any semi-auto work due to the success of theirs own platform.......so I'm trying to get close to what they used to do-
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: stlaser on August 19, 2016, 10:10:25 PM
That initial company that TRN suggested does, but is proprietary to their complete weapon!  They no longer do any semi-auto work due to the success of theirs own platform.......so I'm trying to get close to what they used to do-

I'd say just buy theirs and sell your upper & lower or keep yours for a not so accurate long distant version.....
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: TexasRedNeck on August 19, 2016, 10:13:19 PM
Krieger makes good barrels too.  I wouldn't be afraid of a 20 inch on a 7.62. But it would t be my go to weapon for room clearing either. 


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Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: KensAuto on August 20, 2016, 02:13:38 AM
Accuracy, or room clearing. You want a "do it all" gun?

This is what I ended up with. Only time will tell if it's accurate (I'm hoping for a 6-800 yard gun)

(http://i.imgur.com/R9NIMPe.jpg)

This place is in Scottsdale, and they had all the parts in stock, built it, test fired, and shipped to me in 2 days.
...veriforce tactical.....small company.

Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on August 20, 2016, 08:40:12 AM
Ahhhhhh, Ken, ya broke it already? How long is the barrel- 18" or 20"?
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: KensAuto on August 20, 2016, 11:52:19 AM
18".
I'm finishing up the lower today (cerakote), and was going to shoot it tomorrow, but got to thinking to myself..."hey, ken, you don't have any mags for a 308". lol
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on August 20, 2016, 09:13:55 PM
Single shot, clean, single shot.....break in!
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: KensAuto on August 20, 2016, 09:19:15 PM
I don't know if I have the patience to "properly" break in a barrel.

You think running 2-100 round drums through it would do the trick?
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: BobbyB on August 20, 2016, 09:29:26 PM
Coming up empty on all of TRN's suggested sources as well as Bobby's buddy at Integrity Arms, so I came across what I hope is another option and wanted to know if anyone has any information about this company- Kreiger Barrels in Richfield, WI?  From their website, their shortest barrel is 20" so longer than my desired 18" plan - from those of you with far more experience than I with the AR10 platform, how much will those extra 2" (4 more than my AR15) effect agility of motion with the weapon in an "competition" requiring movement, and close quarter settings?

I plan on contacting them at some point, once I know and have assembled all the parts to complete an upper, as they'll do final assembly etc. with my supplied parts as well as fitting of bolt etc to the barrel and extension.

Any insight on Kreiger is much appreciated-

Mike

I actually don't know the guy at Integrity. I was helping a buddy look for parts and saw their web site, and gave the guy a call, that's the limit of my interaction with Integrity. The fact it's a small Vet run business is just a bonus. Kreiger has a good, some might say great rep in the precision rifle scene. So if you get one, then you'll have a great barrel.


I've heard of them but Bobby is probably a second cousin or something, maybe even Nate!

What the end use for the gun? 20" is getting pretty long for close quarters anything in my limited opinion......

Richland is a few hours south of me. You can swing a 20" in CQB, it's not the more preferred length, but it'll work. But as you want this for more precision than CQB...


That's my, unqualified thought as well- I figure I'll call them to see if there's any possibility of them making it 18" once I figure out and assemble all the "parts" they'll require.  They want a stripped bolt to "match" to the barrel extension/lugs etc. without ejector parts etc.  I have no clue how to go about taking one apart that's been "staked" so I could use some insights there for sure.

With ALL the parts out there, I'm in need of a "list" of what I really need-  I know I'll need: adjustable gas block, handguard and appropriate barrel nut (or will Krieger supply?), correct length gas tube, bolt and carrier and compensator.

What am I missing, overlooking?

You aren't unstaking anything. You only need to send them the actual bolt, minus the extractor. That's the part in front of the BCG that moves in and out and the firing pin protrudes from. They will headspace that with the barrel. No need to worry about the BCG.



It won't have a "highly" accurate barrel then- :(

I was thinking about this, and just what I thought might work.

BARREL
1. Yes it says out of stock but keep watching for it to reappear, also requires a lo-pro gas block, but it's not adjustable, and don't think one is made for it.
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/barrel-parts/rifle-barrels/308-ar-sass-barrel-prod54489.aspx?avs%7cCartridge_1=CUU_7xzzx62+mm+NATO

2. Pricey but a good choice.
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/barrel-parts/rifle-barrels/308-ar-chrome-lined-barrels-prod80214.aspx?avs%7cCartridge_1=CUU_7xzzx62+mm+NATO

HANDGUARD
I keep mentioning Midwest Industries... Well they are just over the border from you, so you could bring your upper in and barrel assuming you have one and see what will work for you, in their store.

1. Just one I picked at random.
https://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=1209

2. Their whole 308 selection
https://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=189

MUZZLE DEVICE
You'll need to decide whether you want a flash hider or muzzle brake. Personally, I'd go flash hider, but I'd rather have a subdued flash (somewhat) and deal with some muzzle movement, as opposed to bigger flash and loud concussive blast. Your thoughts on the matter will differ.

As for a list for you, (budget dictates...)

Upper/lower - Already own
Barrel - Search in progress
 - Gas tube - Need to know length
 - Gas block - Need to know barrel profile
Handguard - Most might have the necessary barrel nut, then there's pic rails, MLOK, Keymod, Keymod - A.....
Trigger - If you want a certain trigger, be it light weight or etc
Buttstock - Collapsible or fixed.
Optics - What range do you plan on using this? Close - mid? Close - Far? A mix of ranges?


Feel free to send me a PM if you have more questions, need an opinion, or just want to insult me. I usually reply relatively fast.
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: KensAuto on August 20, 2016, 11:12:40 PM
That second one looks really close to what I have, except for the chrome part.....heck, maybe they all look like that for all I know.
I'm just along for the ride hoping to learn some things.

http://ballisticadvantage.com/18-inch-308-gov-mid-cmv-modern-barrel.html
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: BobbyB on August 21, 2016, 12:07:59 AM
Black hole Weaponry (308 barrels)
http://www.shop.blackholeweaponry.com/308-Win-308B-caliber-16-length-AR10-308-16.htm

16"
http://www.shop.blackholeweaponry.com/308-Win-308B-caliber-16-length-AR10-308-16.htm

18"
http://www.shop.blackholeweaponry.com/308-Win-308B-caliber-18-length-AR10-308-18.htm

Rainer Arms (308 barrels)

18"
https://www.rainierarms.com/barrels/308-7-62/18

Ballistic Advantage (308 barrels)

18"
http://ballisticadvantage.com/ar-parts/ar-barrels/ar308.html?barrel_length=35


I haven't heard of Ballistic Advantage before, I did a google search for 18" 308 AR10 barrels. So maybe someone else can chime in.
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: stlaser on August 21, 2016, 12:57:49 AM
Dumb question maybe but other than TRN stating the trigger (which is understandable), the barrel (again understandable), & the bolt make the accuracy of the rifle. My question is this, if the bolt is head spaced accordingly on a semi auto what else is there to do to make it more accurate? When I built mine I had it head spaced by a local old school gun smith for both .308 & also 7.62 x 51 this was the only part of the build I did not do myself.

I would also think precision machined upper & lower receivers (to mate precisely) would also be part of the equation. If so then it kinda shoots the op's idea in the rear as he is supplying those & the next question are they good enough? I know nothing of them just asking obvious questions here so please don't be offended.

Also ammo was never mentioned although we know TRN would be reloading his own as would any shooter trying to get the highest accuracy from his rifle.

I would also think the weight of the buffer would also affect the accuracy, I personally used heavy buffers (out of Ohio) on mine. Now that I mention it I think he did gun work as well on 308's & you may want to look him up as he was fairly well regarded.
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: TexasRedNeck on August 21, 2016, 09:28:55 AM
In my uneducated opinion at the moment the round is fired is all that matters. Repeatability is the operative word. If the chamber is exact and the bolt face and lugs are exactly perpendicular to within .001, and your anmo is repeatable ( little variation between rounds) then the limitations of accuracy are the nut behind the gun. Which is why I advise the trigger which means you create less jerking and any movements are repeatable. 

As long as the upper itself is machined true , thread for barrel nut etc, most of the rest is cosmetic.

As for ammo, most ARs won't be accurate enough to warrant extreme accuracy hand loads. FGMM 175 is the correct round to buy.


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Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: stlaser on August 21, 2016, 10:17:30 AM
So with all that stated a competent gunsmith should be able to perform the work. From a machinist standpoint .001 is SLOP........
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: BobbyB on August 21, 2016, 12:14:59 PM
If you get good consistent lock up, along with quality ammo; like TRN said 175 grn or 168 grn FGMM, quality barrel and free-float it, you'll have good accuracy. In reality the rifle will perform, it's the shooter that will make the difference.

You can have 2 rifles, exactly the same but a good shooter and a fair shooter.. That's where you'll see the big differences.
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: stlaser on August 21, 2016, 12:32:59 PM
I guess where I was going with this is he wants a highly accurate rifle for this build & the big players are all not an option for one reason or another. So the reality is he should be able to buy quality parts and have a competent gunsmith assemble & be gtg.
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: BobbyB on August 21, 2016, 01:51:23 PM
I guess where I was going with this is he wants a highly accurate rifle for this build & the big players are all not an option for one reason or another. So the reality is he should be able to buy quality parts and have a competent gunsmith assemble & be gtg.

Yes.
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on September 12, 2016, 08:43:17 PM
Thanks to all for sharing of their knowledge and experiences-

I'm wondering what experience or knowledge you all have with carbon fiber barrels?  Came across one recently that I found intriguing.  One plus is the rapid dissipation of heat as well as minimal shift in point of impact with rapid/heavy fire.

Another item I came across is a bolt carrier assembly that is designed to minimize/address the vast pressure differences between commercial/military loads of the .308 round; something that's not an issue given much attention in a bolt action platform.

Now, for stock assembly; am I correct in my impression that AR15/AR10 stock assemblies are the same, with the exception of the buffer and spring?  Tube is the same, stocks etc.

Any thoughts or suggestions are greatly appreciated!

Getting closer to assembling/ordering parts for the upper, as the money tree dropped some leaves recently!  :o
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: stlaser on September 12, 2016, 09:31:03 PM
No experience at all with carbon fiber anything, sorry

The bolt carrier sounds interesting

The collapsible ar15 stocks should be fine, I think there is a difference in some fixed stocks or something but I've never ran a fixed stock just something I read once (I think, been awhile)
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: KensAuto on September 12, 2016, 09:54:37 PM
The carbine buffer tubes are the same (7" inside depth) but the buffers are shorter to allow the carrier to travel more rearwards, to accommodate the longer 308 cartridge....ask me how I know about ar-10 buffer issues. lol
I'm actually still waiting on a new one to show up, that shawn recommended....mine is experiencing bolt bounce because of a crappy one piece buffer....the new one is a quality 2 piece (it has a sliding piece of tungsten inside the buffer). I can only compare this to a dead blow hammer design, at least in mechanic terms.

...in case you're curious: http://heavybuffers.com/ar10carbine.html

(edit: tungsten instead of titanium)
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on September 12, 2016, 10:29:22 PM
Thanks for the link Ken.......can't imagine how you'd know about such things and their necessity?  ;D
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: TexasRedNeck on September 12, 2016, 11:23:31 PM
Personal opinion not based in fact

Stay away from carbon fiber wrapped barrels. Any rough treatment and a crack could render it worthless.

Go for the adjustable gas block to address load variances and when suppressed.


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Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: BobbyB on September 13, 2016, 02:52:16 AM
Personal opinion not based in fact

Stay away from carbon fiber wrapped barrels. Any rough treatment and a crack could render it worthless.

Go for the adjustable gas block to address load variances and when suppressed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There's a company that makes carbon fiber barrels, I haven't heard bad about them. I've only really seen them on bolt guns though. Then again I haven't really been looking.

TRN, I don't think he can suppress in Illinois.
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on September 13, 2016, 06:58:34 AM
I'm suppressed in Illinois, but our gun barrels cannot be!  >:(
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: KensAuto on September 13, 2016, 10:15:21 AM

TRN, I don't think he can legally suppress in Illinois.

FIFY Bobby. :)
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: BobbyB on September 13, 2016, 02:20:13 PM
FIFY Bobby. :)

Huh?

Disregard, I'm tired, but I figured out your hip cool kid lingo.
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on September 13, 2016, 08:56:52 PM
FIFY Bobby. :)

Huh?

Disregard, I'm tired, but I figured out your hip cool kid lingo.

I'm not tired Bobby, but it made my head hurt figuring it out too! ::)
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: KensAuto on September 13, 2016, 10:06:34 PM
And I thought I was the old guy. smh while rofl
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: stlaser on September 13, 2016, 10:37:47 PM
And I thought I was the old guy. smh while rofl

Google is your friend when looking up slang, other cool stuff maybe not so much.....
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: BobbyB on September 14, 2016, 02:33:44 AM
So have you found anymore parts or decided on what you're adding to the parts pile?
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on September 14, 2016, 07:17:18 AM
The link Ken sent is making the list and stock will either be Magpul collapsible or their DMR fixed.  What's really hanging me up is the barrel decision.  Really interested by carbon fiber due to heat shedding capacity, also hesitate due to potential damage issue leaving me with a expensive club.

BCM muzzle break/hider
Geissle or ALG trigger assembly
Yankee Hill folding sites
Ambidextrous charging handle

Bolt carrier (looking at the one I mentioned yesterday)

If I go with a Krieger Barrel, I need to find/choose an adjustable gas block and send it, gas tube, bolt, upper and hand guard to them for assembly.

When I get some dead time I'll put a link list together so you can look n see and make more informed approval or "negative ghost rider" comments which I find helpful.  Got Daughters wedding in Detroit this weekend........silly kids like that crap hole for some reason!  At least it's at the Detroit Institute of Art, so I should be able to deduct it as a business expense since I teach the stuff, don't y'all think?  ::)
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: BobbyB on September 14, 2016, 08:57:13 AM
I still say you just get one of these 3 barrels. Since they're in stock, which is amazing since almost everything is starting to get sold out lately. I also found you some adjustable gas blocks for the .750 gas block seat, AND the BCG. The hand guard is on you, but I still recommend Midwest Industries, since you can travel north of the border and check their stuff on first hand before you buy, they are all 100% made in America, and a lifetime guarantee.

http://www.customar15.net/shop/ar-15-upper-receivers/bolt-carrier-group-and-parts/black-hole-weaponry-308-barrel-bcm-gunfighter-package/

http://www.customar15.net/shop/ar-15-upper-receivers/barrels-ar-15-upper-receivers/black-hole-weaponry-16%E2%80%B3-match-barrel-lt-mid-308/

http://www.customar15.net/shop/ar-15-upper-receivers/barrels-ar-15-upper-receivers/black-hole-weaponry-20%E2%80%B3-match-barrel-std-rifle-308/

And a BCG
http://www.customar15.net/shop/ar-15-upper-receivers/bolt-carrier-group-and-parts/aero-precision-308-7-62-bcg-w-forward-assist-complete-phosphate/

Gas blocks
https://www.jprifles.com/buy.php?item=JPGS-5B

https://www.jprifles.com/buy.php?item=JPGS-5S

https://www.jprifles.com/buy.php?item=JPGS-SO.750

http://www.seekinsprecision.com/seekins-precision-low-profile-adjustable-gas-block-750-dia.html

http://www.primaryarms.com/ar-308-gas-blocks/c/110400/filter/100000004978eq100000004979and100000004971eq100000004977/
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: KensAuto on September 14, 2016, 10:25:58 AM
I'm going to post this in my lr-10 build as well...I got the new buffer installed last night, and ran out to the desert to shoot it...OH man what a difference!!
Mine was definately overgassed. The previous buffer was bottoming out, and the carrier was slamming into the extension threads before, and also bruising my arm...which I thought was odd considering a 308 is nothing like a 300 weatherby which I shoot quite often.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that a quality buffer can also help compensate for gassing issues.
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: BobbyB on September 14, 2016, 11:55:59 AM
stock will either be Magpul DMR fixed. 

If you mean their PRS it's supposedly going to be heavier than a normal fixed and definitely more weight (but still easily manageable) on the backend compared to the collapsible stock. So just plan for that if that's what you choose.
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on September 14, 2016, 08:59:30 PM
Thanks Bobby-

Barrel has been ordered:

http://www.customar15.net/shop/ar-15-upper-receivers/barrels-ar-15-upper-receivers/black-hole-weaponry-16%E2%80%B3-match-barrel-lt-mid-308/

16" with sub MOA guarantee or better, and "in-stock" status and on sale, I figured it's a starting point and I can upgrade barrel later, as long as Ken's GF stays off the throne; if not it'll have to do!  ;)

Definetly copying Ken on that buffer after his hands-on review too!
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: TexasRedNeck on September 14, 2016, 11:07:37 PM
I approve of this message
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on September 14, 2016, 11:31:50 PM
Here's the pressure regulating bolt group I came across- a bit pricey!

http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/bolt-parts/bolts/308-ar-enhanced-high-pressure-bolt-completion-group-prod77853.aspx

That doesn't include carrier!

Thoughts?  Is it potentially worth the $ or is it a whole lot for a little in the long run?
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: BobbyB on September 15, 2016, 02:50:07 AM
Here's the pressure regulating bolt group I came across- a bit pricey!

http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/bolt-parts/bolts/308-ar-enhanced-high-pressure-bolt-completion-group-prod77853.aspx

That doesn't include carrier!

Thoughts?  Is it potentially worth the $ or is it a whole lot for a little in the long run?

Well it's out of stock so you'll probably be waiting for awhile. I'd grab a normal completed BCG and run it, if later down the road you decide you want the upgraded bolt, then go for it and you'll have a backup that you know works.
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: TexasRedNeck on September 15, 2016, 07:40:52 AM
They make it sound so technical. What's extractor smear...


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Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: stlaser on September 15, 2016, 09:36:16 AM
They make it sound so technical. What's extractor smear...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I thought that's what they did to H at the memorial service last weekend as they loaded her in the van..... ;)
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on October 02, 2016, 01:35:44 PM
Well, this is no longer a "potential" build as I've accumulated most of the following so far; a few items are on hold until additonal funds are squirreled away!  The hand guard was on sale and I liked the built in picatinny rails at the front.  Nothing to loosen or snag & saving $45 made the decision easy!  Commentary and reviews are welcome, as most items are still "exchangeable" and a few still to order/ship.  :)

Barrel:  http://www.customar15.net/shop/ar-15-upper-receivers/barrels-ar-15-upper-receivers/black-hole-weaponry-16%e2%80%b3-match-barrel-lt-mid-308/

Handguard:  https://www.midwayusa.com/product/627712/troy-industries-sdmr-battle-rail-free-float-keymod-handguard-lr-308

Gas Block:  https://www.midwayusa.com/product/378070/superlative-arms-adjustable-bleed-off-clamp-on-gas-block-ar-15-lr-308

Comp./Break:  http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/muzzle-devices/compensators-amp-muzzle-brakes/ar-308-gunfighter-comp-mod-1-30-caliber-prod86726.aspx?psize=96

Bolt Group:  http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/bolt-parts/bolt-carrier-groups/308ar-titanium-nitride-bolt-carrier-group-sku100017661-80611-166645.aspx

Charging Handle:  http://www.midwayusa.com/product/766519/axts-raptor-ambidextrous-charging-handle-assembly-ar-10-lr-308-aluminum

Stock:  http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/stock-parts/buttstocks/ar-308-prs-stock-assy-collapsible-rifle-length-fde-sku078000212-72284-139071.aspx

Upper/Lower:   http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1STSBX20&name=Spikes+Tactical+The+Jack+.308%2f7.62x51+Billet+Lower+%26+Upper+Receiver+Set&search=spikes+tactical+Jack

Grip:  http://www.midwayusa.com/product/111389/ergo-sure-grip-gen-2-pistol-grip-ar-15-ar-10-lr-308-ambidextrous-overmolded-rubber


Side Note:  TRN (Charles) - as I run the mental calculator, it wouldn't have been too great a financial jump to go with the "company gun" the place you suggested to source the barrel/upper from!  Oh, well, once I have the skull of the lower Cerekoted to look like an actual skull, I should have a very unique tool to call my own, that'll probably outclass my capabilities for accuracy for awhile!
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: BobbyB on October 02, 2016, 02:31:05 PM
Not a bad pile o' parts.
Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: TexasRedNeck on October 02, 2016, 02:45:33 PM
Mike now you get the experience of building and tuning which is priceless


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Title: Re: Potential AR-10 Build
Post by: stlaser on October 02, 2016, 03:37:56 PM
Quick overview my only concern is that handguard is the correct height to match the upper when installed as there are several different heights out there. If you did not I would call or better yet email tech & have them confirm it fits your upper properly. Midway can get touchy on returns, I know personally being banned from their buying list.....
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on October 02, 2016, 03:58:39 PM
Quick overview my only concern is that handguard is the correct height to match the upper when installed as there are several different heights out there. If you did not I would call or better yet email tech & have them confirm it fits your upper properly. Midway can get touchy on returns, I know personally being banned from their buying list.....

Shawn's calling down the Gremlins on my build!  LOL -  one of the reasons I've taken as long assembling parts as I have is due to my greenness and the vast degree of variations in this platform!  Another reason I went with the Troy hand guard was the illustration provided on-line to check compatibility of the receiver.

Thanks for the "caution" as I just went to the safe to triple check - I'm GTG!  ;D
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: stlaser on October 02, 2016, 04:01:29 PM
Quick overview my only concern is that handguard is the correct height to match the upper when installed as there are several different heights out there. If you did not I would call or better yet email tech & have them confirm it fits your upper properly. Midway can get touchy on returns, I know personally being banned from their buying list.....

Shawn's calling down the Gremlins on my build!  LOL -  one of the reasons I've taken as long assembling parts as I have is due to my greenness and the vast degree of variations in this platform!  Another reason I went with the Troy hand guard was the illustration provided on-line to check compatibility of the receiver.

Thanks for the "caution" as I just went to the safe to triple check - I'm GTG!  ;D

Good deal, I had that issue was why I mentioned it....
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on October 04, 2016, 06:00:53 PM
The Brown parts fairy stopped by today-

Got to playing with the receiver, barrel nut and hand guard so now I've got a question for youn'z in the know: the barrel nuts four tabs at 12,3,6 & 9 don't slide into the grooves in the handguard.  They line up and start, but I'm not thinking slamming it on with a hammer is an appropriate method of installation!  Seems like the FDE coating could be scraped out, or I could file on each side of the tabs some OR a combination of both.

My next question is: once on with the barrel and barrel nut torqued appropriately, is that hand guard supposed to rotate freely with those tabs lining up inside one of the grooves that run around 360 degrees inside the hand-guard?

Answers, insights, volunteers to put the upper together so I don't muff it up etc?  :o
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on October 04, 2016, 06:41:35 PM
The Brown parts fairy stopped by today-

Got to playing with the receiver, barrel nut and hand guard so now I've got a question for youn'z in the know: the barrel nuts four tabs at 12,3,6 & 9 don't slide into the grooves in the handguard.  They line up and start, but I'm not thinking slamming it on with a hammer is an appropriate method of installation!  Seems like the FDE coating could be scraped out, or I could file on each side of the tabs some OR a combination of both.

My next question is: once on with the barrel and barrel nut torqued appropriately, is that hand guard supposed to rotate freely with those tabs lining up inside one of the grooves that run around 360 degrees inside the hand-guard?

Answers, insights, volunteers to put the upper together so I don't muff it up etc?  :o

So, seems there's a "proprietary" Barrel Nut that wasn't included in the box - got email to their customer service department.  East Cost company so they're off the clock until tomorrow.  Will let you know what I learn then.....other than NOTHING is easy with building a large caliber Frankengun it would seem!  >:(
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: stlaser on October 04, 2016, 08:09:33 PM
Yes, barrel nut should have come with hand guard.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: TexasRedNeck on October 04, 2016, 10:27:20 PM
Just make the eyes on the skull red when you cerakote it and you'll be my hero


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Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on October 05, 2016, 01:59:53 PM
Update on Troy Industries Hand Guard:

So last evening after the Brown Fairy dropped off some parts, including the above, I tried to fit the Barrel Nut into the Hand Guard and wasn't successful as things seemed overly tight.  Come to find out that there's supposed to be a proprietary Barrel Nut with the Hand Guard that Midway said wasn't included when I ordered and that any Mil-spec Barrel Nut would work.

Contacted Troy Industries last evening and got a response right away this am.  They asked for proof of purchase and invoice, both of which I provided via screen shot off my phone and emailed to them.

Resolutions:  They are NEXT DAY shipping it to my door!  Start of contact until shipping notice was 2.5 hours- OUTSTANDING!

Troy Industries = Great Customer Service!
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: BobbyB on October 05, 2016, 02:33:11 PM
Update on Troy Industries Hand Guard:

So last evening after the Brown Fairy dropped off some parts, including the above, I tried to fit the Barrel Nut into the Hand Guard and wasn't successful as things seemed overly tight.  Come to find out that there's supposed to be a proprietary Barrel Nut with the Hand Guard that Midway said wasn't included when I ordered and that any Mil-spec Barrel Nut would work.

Contacted Troy Industries last evening and got a response right away this am.  They asked for proof of purchase and invoice, both of which I provided via screen shot off my phone and emailed to them.

Resolutions:  They are NEXT DAY shipping it to my door!  Start of contact until shipping notice was 2.5 hours- OUTSTANDING!

Troy Industries = Great Customer Service!

Customer service is good when they fix you up. Did you check Troy's website before you ordered off Midway? I've noticed some discrepancies between sites a few times.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: Atkinsmatt on October 05, 2016, 03:23:59 PM
Sounds like a nomination to the most favored company list.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on October 05, 2016, 06:50:09 PM
Update on Troy Industries Hand Guard:

So last evening after the Brown Fairy dropped off some parts, including the above, I tried to fit the Barrel Nut into the Hand Guard and wasn't successful as things seemed overly tight.  Come to find out that there's supposed to be a proprietary Barrel Nut with the Hand Guard that Midway said wasn't included when I ordered and that any Mil-spec Barrel Nut would work.

Contacted Troy Industries last evening and got a response right away this am.  They asked for proof of purchase and invoice, both of which I provided via screen shot off my phone and emailed to them.

Resolutions:  They are NEXT DAY shipping it to my door!  Start of contact until shipping notice was 2.5 hours- OUTSTANDING!

Troy Industries = Great Customer Service!

Customer service is good when they fix you up. Did you check Troy's website before you ordered off Midway? I've noticed some discrepancies between sites a few times.

I didn't because Midway stated the Barrel Nut wasn't included and they also had a memo from Troy about fitting a receiver "high" vs new lower style DPMS.  Apparently it's an outdated memo as Troy states needing a proprietary one which is included in the same model on their site.  Anyway, I ordered a "mil spec" barrel nut with the hand guard from Midway - anyone needing one can have this one that won't work if you need one.  My hunch is that Midway picked these up when Troy made that switch to including one of theirs.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on October 06, 2016, 04:28:11 PM
Another plug for Troy Industries:

Sent the part NEXT DAY AIR!  Already on my doorstep!
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: KensAuto on October 06, 2016, 04:51:06 PM
Nice.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on October 06, 2016, 05:51:35 PM
Anyone have suggestions on a reputable shop/gunsmith to have assemble my upper, check head spacing etc. on this puppy?  With an accurate barrel, need for secure attachment of the muzzle "device" to satisfy legality issues and not wanting to purchase bench block, and assorted tools, I have found out that Ken's supplier of the buffer will assemble upper with "your parts" for $50.  I am looking for a recommendation from anyone with personal experience and a recommendation/testimonial to see what's out there.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: stlaser on October 06, 2016, 06:01:10 PM
Anyone have suggestions on a reputable shop/gunsmith to have assemble my upper, check head spacing etc. on this puppy?  With an accurate barrel, need for secure attachment of the muzzle "device" to satisfy legality issues and not wanting to purchase bench block, and assorted tools, I have found out that Ken's supplier of the buffer will assemble upper with "your parts" for $50.  I am looking for a recommendation from anyone with personal experience and a recommendation/testimonial to see what's out there.

Use "Ken's buffer guy" who I've also used. He has a great reputation and know several people who have had great success with him.

edit: just recalled I believe magpul recommends him as well if you have feeding issues......
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on October 06, 2016, 06:55:54 PM
Anyone have suggestions on a reputable shop/gunsmith to have assemble my upper, check head spacing etc. on this puppy?  With an accurate barrel, need for secure attachment of the muzzle "device" to satisfy legality issues and not wanting to purchase bench block, and assorted tools, I have found out that Ken's supplier of the buffer will assemble upper with "your parts" for $50.  I am looking for a recommendation from anyone with personal experience and a recommendation/testimonial to see what's out there.

Use "Ken's buffer guy" who I've also used. He has a great reputation and know several people who have had great success with him.

edit: just recalled I believe magpul recommends him as well if you have feeding issues......

Awesome news!  His website is such that you aren't sure if it's Cleatus in the back alley, or a highly competent guy with no desire to maintain a website......I like the later!
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on November 17, 2016, 07:06:39 AM
Anyone know about or have experience with this company/scope and or targeting system?

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XPA414XFFP308&name=Primary+Arms+4-14X44+FFP+Scope+w%2f+ACSS®+HUD+DMR+.308%2f.223&groupid=6341

Intriguing concept for the reticle.  I've also been looking at something like this:

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XVOPST416F1A&name=Vortex+PST+4-16x50+FFP+Riflescope+EBR-1+(MOA)+Reticle%2f+30mm+Tube&groupid=7903

They make a couple different BDC models that run about half the price of this one ^^^

Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: Flyin6 on November 17, 2016, 08:34:50 AM
Anyone know about or have experience with this company/scope and or targeting system?

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XPA414XFFP308&name=Primary+Arms+4-14X44+FFP+Scope+w%2f+ACSS®+HUD+DMR+.308%2f.223&groupid=6341

Intriguing concept for the reticle.  I've also been looking at something like this:

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XVOPST416F1A&name=Vortex+PST+4-16x50+FFP+Riflescope+EBR-1+(MOA)+Reticle%2f+30mm+Tube&groupid=7903

They make a couple different BDC models that run about half the price of this one ^^^


NOSSIR, but I likes it

Bobbee...?
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: BobbyB on November 17, 2016, 09:35:21 AM
Anyone know about or have experience with this company/scope and or targeting system?

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XPA414XFFP308&name=Primary+Arms+4-14X44+FFP+Scope+w%2f+ACSS®+HUD+DMR+.308%2f.223&groupid=6341

Intriguing concept for the reticle.  I've also been looking at something like this:

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XVOPST416F1A&name=Vortex+PST+4-16x50+FFP+Riflescope+EBR-1+(MOA)+Reticle%2f+30mm+Tube&groupid=7903

They make a couple different BDC models that run about half the price of this one ^^^

I've heard some good things about PA, heard some people complain about them. I personally have never held, looked through or used a PA scope. Not sure what their warranty is, however I will look and see what I find, their prices aren't bad. However the ACSS reticle seems too busy to me.

As for Vortex, I have held, and looked through and I rather like their scopes. Bonus is their unconditional lifetime warranty, additional bonus for Vortex is their HQ/Store front is just north of you a couple hours (or less I just used a generic address of Chicago, which basically uses the center point of), so you can go look at all their stuff and see what works. Probably even bring the rifle and get it mounted by their staff.

As a personal choice, I'm not a fan of BDC. For hunting sure, where you're generally not shooting long range. For anything generally at the far end of medium into long range I like FFP. Mil / MOA is going to be personal choice as to what you're more comfortable with and have used.

In summation, I'd go with which will fit your budget and needs.

NOSSIR, but I likes it

Bobbee...?


^^ Remarks complete.  ;D



Sorry I can't be of more help. I'm not keeping up to date on things.

Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on November 17, 2016, 12:13:31 PM
Update:

Upper parts are sitting on Clint's work bench awaiting their turn at assembly.  Once assembly is complete it's heading home with the trick buffer and spring that healed Kens gun so nicely!

Waiting on Spikes Tactical lower parts kit from two different sources seeing who will gets it in stock first - one is Spike's directly so it's a waiting game! 

All other parts except a scope (see previous post for leanings) and B/U sights are on hand - what special tools and equipment will I need to put the lower together?
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: KensAuto on November 18, 2016, 10:51:03 AM
A steady hand, and a small punch or large paper clip, IIRC. Basic enough for a grunt like Bobby to do in the field !

I'm a little surprised you didn't go for a drop in trigger, considering how far you've went so far...I mean, heck, what's a couple hundred more bucks. :)
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: BobbyB on November 18, 2016, 12:26:09 PM
Basic enough for a grunt like Bobby to do in the field !

Field expedient repairs are a skill.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on November 18, 2016, 01:20:28 PM
A steady hand, and a small punch or large paper clip, IIRC. Basic enough for a grunt like Bobby to do in the field !

I'm a little surprised you didn't go for a drop in trigger, considering how far you've went so far...I mean, heck, what's a couple hundred more bucks. :)

A Giesselle will be making an appearance as funds regenerate.....in the meantime, I'll just need to learn the beast and once I shoot it with sound fundamentals and accuracy, the upgrade of a match trigger and scope will have increased accuracy that makes me even more capable!
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on November 23, 2016, 08:47:07 AM
Ooohhh, it's a Thanksgiving miracle: just got notification on shipment from Spike's Tactical of my lower parts kit!  Site said 6-8 week back order when I ordered week and a half ago!  Better start watching assembly videos and get it to the cerakote company!
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: BobbyB on November 23, 2016, 09:21:08 AM
A Giesselle will be making an appearance as funds regenerate.....in the meantime, I'll just need to learn the beast and once I shoot it with sound fundamentals and accuracy, the upgrade of a match trigger and scope will have increased accuracy that makes me even more capable!

Psh stick with a Mil-Spec trigger. If you can shoot good groups with one of those then you're cool.  :D
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: KensAuto on November 23, 2016, 10:52:56 AM
My mil spec sucked! It was the absolute worst trigger I've ever pulled....even tried polishing/filing it but it still sucked. Might have been the brand, dunno.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: BobbyB on November 23, 2016, 02:27:57 PM
My mil spec sucked! It was the absolute worst trigger I've ever pulled....even tried polishing/filing it but it still sucked. Might have been the brand, dunno.

That means you are uncool and need to shoot more!  ;D
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: KensAuto on November 23, 2016, 03:31:57 PM
:P
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on November 23, 2016, 06:22:03 PM
Clint, from HeavyBuffers called - upper is assembled and inbound along with the rifle buffer and spring set-up he specializes in.  Thankful for that AND the fact that we won't need to suffer under Queen Hildabeast and I'll be able to use the new toy without fear of being legislated into the status of a criminal.

Still need sights and a stock of ammo - will have time while skull gets cerakote treatment; sorry TRN, no red eyes!  Bobby, Spike's kit comes with trigger assembly that's "improved" mil spec so if I get good groups, do I still get credit?
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: BobbyB on November 23, 2016, 06:41:34 PM
Clint, from HeavyBuffers called - upper is assembled and inbound along with the rifle buffer and spring set-up he specializes in.  Thankful for that AND the fact that we won't need to suffer under Queen Hildabeast and I'll be able to use the new toy without fear of being legislated into the status of a criminal.

Still need sights and a stock of ammo - will have time while skull gets cerakote treatment; sorry TRN, no red eyes!  Bobby, Spike's kit comes with trigger assembly that's "improved" mil spec so if I get good groups, do I still get credit?

I suppose partial credit. In all truth the ALG (Geiselle's wife, I think) ACT is supposedly a good mil-spec trigger.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on November 23, 2016, 06:51:17 PM
Clint, from HeavyBuffers called - upper is assembled and inbound along with the rifle buffer and spring set-up he specializes in.  Thankful for that AND the fact that we won't need to suffer under Queen Hildabeast and I'll be able to use the new toy without fear of being legislated into the status of a criminal.

Still need sights and a stock of ammo - will have time while skull gets cerakote treatment; sorry TRN, no red eyes!  Bobby, Spike's kit comes with trigger assembly that's "improved" mil spec so if I get good groups, do I still get credit?

I suppose partial credit. In all truth the ALG (Geiselle's wife, I think) ACT is supposedly a good mil-spec trigger.

I went with ALG on my Integrity build....the one I used to whack a beer at 300 m at Don's farm with the first shot.  I'm hoping Spike's is comparable in quality!
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: BobbyB on November 23, 2016, 07:18:01 PM
I went with ALG on my Integrity build....the one I used to whack a beer at 300 m at Don's farm with the first shot.  I'm hoping Spike's is comparable in quality!

I don't think it will be.. but I could be wrong, it's happened before.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: TexasRedNeck on November 23, 2016, 08:41:52 PM
It takes a lot of practice and patience to be good with a milspec trigger. I'm not patient.


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Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: BobbyB on November 24, 2016, 05:06:01 AM
It takes a lot of practice and patience to be good with a milspec trigger. I'm not patient.


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Well then.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on December 02, 2016, 05:51:52 PM
Brown Santa FINALLY showed up with assembled upper and HeavyBuffers spring and buffer- getting closer!
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: stlaser on December 02, 2016, 07:23:56 PM
Nice looking upper....
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: TexasRedNeck on December 02, 2016, 07:40:34 PM
bueno!
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on December 02, 2016, 07:53:15 PM
Thanks, can't wait to see how it shoots after it's all completed!
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: Flyin6 on December 03, 2016, 08:13:26 PM
It's all tan lookin'
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cj7ox on December 05, 2016, 01:27:40 PM
That's a good looking upper!  8)
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on December 05, 2016, 03:02:14 PM
Question for y'all in the know - do I sight it in like I did the 5.56 at ~25 feet and it's GTG or do I go x high at 100yrds.  I've got time, but will be getting it on paper indoors before setting up final sight in outside at say 200yrds.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: Flyin6 on December 05, 2016, 03:46:17 PM
Mikey,

I think, that being on the AR platform and knowing the 7.62 and the 5.56, I want to say do it the same as your 5.56 gun (Which is one sweet shooting mill btw)

Inside 250, maybe a bit beyond, don't the bullets have strikingly similiar ballistics? So the 25 meter zero, then aim 2" low at 100 meters and dead on at 250 seems like it would fit your .30 cal gun as well.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: Bob/OlallaWa on December 05, 2016, 05:02:18 PM
I would check it at the 25 and then again at the 100 yd mark, then move out to the 200 yd target for final check point.
Around here, it is hard to find a 200 yd range. I use the ranges to get close then head to the hills to do a final check. If you do go to the hills, please pack out at least as much as what you pack in. Shooters using the hills really give us  a bad name any more. All the junk, including the broken glass, laying around causes the no shooting/trespassing signs to appear.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: BobbyB on December 05, 2016, 06:42:41 PM
Looks nice. I'd start at 25 or 50 (whichever you choose) then check at 100 and roll from there.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: JR on December 05, 2016, 11:44:40 PM
Must resist,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: BobbyB on December 06, 2016, 06:11:55 AM
Must resist,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Resistance is futile.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: TexasRedNeck on December 06, 2016, 07:18:04 AM
Mike give me the barrel length and the brand and weight of rounds you'll be shooting and the height of your optic and I'll run you a ballistic table


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Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: BobbyB on December 06, 2016, 09:41:24 AM
Mike give me the barrel length and the brand and weight of rounds you'll be shooting and the height of your optic and I'll run you a ballistic table


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First he's gotta find a round that works best out of all the options...

And decide on a scope....

And build the lower...

And find time to actually shoot it...


 ;D


Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: Flyin6 on December 06, 2016, 10:05:13 AM
Mike give me the barrel length and the brand and weight of rounds you'll be shooting and the height of your optic and I'll run you a ballistic table


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First he's gotta find a round that works best out of all the options...

And decide on a scope....

And build the lower...

And find time to actually shoot it...


 ;D




AHHH, The Hu-man-ity!
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on December 06, 2016, 03:12:50 PM
^^^^^^ YEA.....All of THAT!^^^^^

Thanks Charles, will take you up on that as soon as Bobby's punch list is complete!
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: BobbyB on December 06, 2016, 06:24:48 PM
Thanks Charles, will take you up on that as soon as Bobby's punch list is complete!

I have to correct the list.

Cerakote lower...

Build lower...

Acquire scope & mount...

Shoot a bunch of test loads....

Smile like a pig in .....

Figure out the favorite round...

Complete sight in...

Contact TRN...

Enjoy at long last.

 ;D


Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on December 06, 2016, 07:03:56 PM
Since I don't even have the weapon up and functioning yet, and I just procured the first 200 rounds for it, I would love to hear from you all with similar .308 platforms what your favorite brands/loads and projectiles are.  Commercial/Military/Handloads

I do intend on getting a Lee Loader (The all in one SHTF pocket kit) as well as a Dillon progressive press down the road.

If you have a favorite projectile, why and based upon what application?  Target, Hunting, Varmint, Defense

This way I can start a "shopping list" and pick up rounds as I come across them!
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: JR on December 06, 2016, 07:42:34 PM
Maybe not the best bullet, but the 147gr fmj is the most common and the cheapest you will find in bulk for about .50 a round.

I use ammoseek to find the cheapest and have had good luck. It is hard to load 308 for less than 35-40 a round.

http://sgammo.com/product/308-win-762x51-ammo/960-round-case-762x51-nato-146-grain-fmj-hirtenberger-surplus-ammo-1970s
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on December 06, 2016, 08:31:28 PM
Charles- here's what I have so far:

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=AP308BP&name=Prvi+Partizan+PPU+.308%2f7.62x51+M80+145grn+FMJ+200rd+Battle+Pack&search=308

Barrel:

http://www.customar15.net/shop/ar-15-upper-receivers/barrels-ar-15-upper-receivers/black-hole-weaponry-16%e2%80%b3-match-barrel-lt-mid-308/
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: stlaser on December 06, 2016, 09:57:16 PM
Here's what I have been buying & shooting as of late
http://sgammo.com/product/308-win-762x51-ammo/1000-round-case-308-win-148-grain-fmj-german-military-surplus-ammo-am203

It's very clean & runs well, I'm not a long range shooter so take it for what it is. I think Ken was or did but some of this. Price is hard to beat if you're stocking up.

Also check out the reviews below product description, sg is great to deal with as is aim.....
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: TexasRedNeck on December 06, 2016, 10:27:06 PM
I shoot fgmm 175

The 175 will stay supersonic longer than the 168


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Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: JR on December 06, 2016, 10:43:45 PM
I have a couple K of that. Not bright and shinny but who cares.

Even bought some old IMI rejects sometime back. About 1/2 was shootable other was missfeds, dented or slug pushed into the case. But the price was right!

Battlepacks are nice but pricey now if you plane to shoot em. Think I paid $65 for my 200rd packs.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: KensAuto on December 07, 2016, 10:20:40 AM
Here's what I have been buying & shooting as of late
http://sgammo.com/product/308-win-762x51-ammo/1000-round-case-308-win-148-grain-fmj-german-military-surplus-ammo-am203

It's very clean & runs well, I'm not a long range shooter so take it for what it is. I think Ken was or did but some of this. Price is hard to beat if you're stocking up.

Also check out the reviews below product description, sg is great to deal with as is aim.....
Yeah, I got some of that. It's still sitting on the floor at work. Haven't tried it yet. Heck of a good deal for plinking rounds.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: OldKooT on December 08, 2016, 08:59:48 AM
I second the FGMM 175.....good stuff. Compliments on a sound and attractive build. I shoot M118LR because my junk prefers it.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: BobbyB on December 08, 2016, 07:08:12 PM
shoot M118LR

If you can find it, that is a good option.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: OldKooT on December 08, 2016, 08:47:59 PM
Yeah a few years back I stumbled on quite a few rounds. Since I am not a fan of that caliber and only have two rifles chambered for it. I should have enough for decades LoL

Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: BobbyB on April 12, 2017, 08:08:57 PM
So......
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on April 13, 2017, 11:02:42 AM
Since getting the upper back, I'm kinda stalling out on picking an optic and squirreling away the $.  Liked the combo that TRN put together for someone else via Brownells Vortex 1x6 with mount, and still tossing around the Primary Arms option with the "busy" retical with leads and BDC built in.

With Field Trial season drawing to a close and a really "hot" young dog, my disposable cash has found other homes!

Will be sending out lower to be Cerakoted soon......
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on June 19, 2017, 08:27:28 AM
What type of Loc-tite should be used on different areas of assembly?

Back-up sights?

Buffer Tube?

Anti-walk pins for trigger assembly?

Stock/sling mounts?

Anywhere else?

I know "staking" is another method for some areas, but I'm pretty sure those are already covered, except the Buffer Tube, which doesn't have a nut based upon my stock choice.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: Sammconn on June 19, 2017, 08:33:25 AM
What type of Loc-tite should be used on different areas of assembly?

Back-up sights?

Buffer Tube?

Anti-walk pins for trigger assembly?

Stock/sling mounts?

Anywhere else?

I know "staking" is another method for some areas, but I'm pretty sure those are already covered, except the Buffer Tube, which doesn't have a nut based upon my stock choice.
I'd use the blue 242 for most of it.
Not sure on the trigger pins.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: BobbyB on June 19, 2017, 01:21:49 PM
What type of Loc-tite should be used on different areas of assembly?

Back-up sights?

Buffer Tube?

Anti-walk pins for trigger assembly?

Stock/sling mounts?

Anywhere else?

I know "staking" is another method for some areas, but I'm pretty sure those are already covered, except the Buffer Tube, which doesn't have a nut based upon my stock choice.

Only ever used it on the BUIS. Little dab will do it, the blue stuff is fine. Never heard of using the lock-tite on the other items.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: Bear9350 on June 19, 2017, 02:03:22 PM
I shoot fgmm 175

The 175 will stay supersonic longer than the 168


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I've been reloading with 175 gr SMK (the bullet used in fgmm) and it is the only one that I have had good success with so far in my .308.  I will be trying some some 175 gr Nosler CC that I have been told might work well also.  Have some loaded up but not had a chance to shoot them yet.  The Nosler is a little cheaper bullet then the SMK.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: TexasRedNeck on June 19, 2017, 02:25:18 PM
What type of Loc-tite should be used on different areas of assembly?

Back-up sights?

Buffer Tube?

Anti-walk pins for trigger assembly?

Stock/sling mounts?

Anywhere else?

I know "staking" is another method for some areas, but I'm pretty sure those are already covered, except the Buffer Tube, which doesn't have a nut based upon my stock choice.
You can use Blue in all those locations, but really most BUIS don't work loose if they are steel and mil spec rail design.

Please describe the buffer tube set up.  That is the one location that needs staking, along with gas key on the bolt carrier.

The anti walk pins should use blue loctite.

Perhaps the most important area for loctite is the scope rings where they hold the scope.  I put blue loctite and then apply a dab of red finger nail polish to be able to easily identify if the screws have worked loose.


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Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on June 20, 2017, 01:34:41 PM
Just saw your reply there Charles:

Used blue loctite on:

Buffer tube since there's no castle nut with Magpul PRS set-up.

Anti-walk pins holding SSA-E trigger - it's sweet!

Handgrip.

Ambi-safety selector.

Stock sling attachment points.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: JR on June 20, 2017, 01:41:38 PM
Now that is a purdy gun.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: Sammconn on June 20, 2017, 01:53:18 PM
Nice looking gun.
I now see the buffer tube issue.
Like Charles said, it will need staked in some form.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on June 20, 2017, 03:45:27 PM
Thanks guys-

Have discovered an issue, possibly one I can live with for awhile?  The Bolt catch; doesn't!  Empty mag, pull back the bolt and it doesn't catch and hold open on the empty Mag.  Now I suspected something early on as it came already installed and didn't have much movement.  I double checked on my 5.56 and the AR10 doesn't function as it should or like the other.

I removed the installed Bolt catch and when the retaining pin was removed, the catch just fell out, but there was no detent or spring shooting across the room.  So I fiddled with it for 45 min. trying to remove the detent to no avail - just sitting there - won't go in or come out!  I replaced the original Bolt catch with the one that came with my lower kit - same manufacturer Spikes, and it didn't work then either.  I'm wondering what gives?

Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: KensAuto on June 20, 2017, 11:42:31 PM
Had the same problem with mine Mike. Part of the problem was the cerakote was too thick under the catch, then found that the upper was a little too thick. I ground a little off of the lever where it was contacting the side of the upper, just below the bolt when closed.
If you look inside the mag well, the lever should be pretty close to the bottom of the bolt when manually/fully pressed.

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Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: KensAuto on June 20, 2017, 11:43:14 PM
...by the way, Nice!!

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Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on June 21, 2017, 06:51:08 AM
So, the only place I can think to stake the buffer tube, would be around the shoulder edge where it meets the back of the receiver as if "it" we're the castle nut; how many places do you think I need to smack it with a center punch? Which direction, down and towards the receiver?   :huh:
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: Atkinsmatt on June 21, 2017, 09:01:38 AM
very nice.  Hope you get that catch sorted out.  Hate to have to take a dremmel to a new piece but if that is what it takes.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on June 21, 2017, 12:22:13 PM
So sitting here struggling to remove this stuck bolt-catch detent; figure that is what's preventing the catcher from traveling high enough to stop the bolt. Have a replacement for it, so thinking of getting after it with a tiny dremel jewelers drill to get a grip on it. Gonna let the PB Blast soak awhile. Been tapping on it with a countersink punch on a slight angle outward trying to move/loosen it too.  Bet there's no spring behind it!

Solution :

Drilling with a tiny jewelers bit in a dremel allowed me to insert an old fashioned compass tip and tap it out with a hammer.  Spring apparently was weak along with the jammed button, because when I replaced both with my spares, the bolt catch works as it should with solid engagement!

Now end of the month I get some extra $, so it's off to the range as soon as I procure the scope and mount!

(Bottom photo is the offending Bolt Catch button (removed) with drilled hole & my thumb for scale)
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on June 23, 2017, 09:15:52 AM
Two scopes I'm really interested in; hoping that AIM Surplus gets the last one back in stock.

http://www.customar15.net/product/vortex-viper-pst-2-5-10x32-ffp-ebr-1-moa/

https://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XVOPST416F1A&name=Vortex+PST+4-16x50+FFP+Riflescope+EBR-1+(MOA)+Reticle%2f+30mm+Tube&groupid=7903

I also like the 1x8 Strike Eagle that Bobby has suggested, but not thrilled about having to crank the scope to high power to be accurate for wind/drop compensation with the Second Focal Plane scopes.

Thoughts, or suggestion on a brand/model I'm not looking at?
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: Bear9350 on June 23, 2017, 10:00:51 AM
You might look into the Burris XTR lineup.  I am happy with the 5-25 I put on my 308 and many of the guys on the shooting forums I frequent recommend Burris over Vortex. 
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: JR on June 23, 2017, 10:54:56 AM
I like the 50mm vs the 32. Get all the light you can. Both do have the lite CH.

Can you look at either?
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: BobbyB on June 26, 2017, 06:19:21 PM
2.5-10x is in stock, that will work for you.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on June 26, 2017, 06:43:57 PM
2.5-10x is in stock, that will work for you.

I like it, just waiting for the money truck to stop by end of the month!  :grin:
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: BobbyB on June 26, 2017, 10:01:18 PM
I like it, just waiting for the money truck to stop by end of the month!  :grin:

That's 4 days, 96 hrs and change.... well less but you get my point.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on June 29, 2017, 04:26:42 PM
Well, the scope fairy came today!  Actually stopped into the local gun range and store to look at and handle the scope I was thinking of topping of my AR 10 with.  Low and behold, they had a used one (Vortex) in 2.5 X 10 with tactical turrets & illuminated reticle.  It's second focal plane, so that was a bummer, but being in great condition and selling for $375, I jumped on it!  Screwed up and forget to suspend the fraud alert on the debit card and got busted by the "warden" who took exception to the purchase without clearance from the tower!

Additionally purchased lens covers and a Vortex off-set mount, as the one that was left attached by the previous owner wasn't up to par for my liking.  With state political excise fees and extras, total amount was $550.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on June 29, 2017, 04:35:12 PM
Here's my "Redneck Suburbanite" method to plumb my reticle after squaring the top rail and my solution to not having a gun vice!  Used yellow construction cord hanging from the overhead garage door with a plumb bob attached for my vertical reference!  Love slide clamps!
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on June 29, 2017, 04:43:14 PM
Finally completed and awaiting test firing and sight in!  Will probably add a bipod at some point, and toying with the idea of painting the skull with rattle cans - didn't send away for Cerekote to avoid going through a dealer to "handle" the transaction. 
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: BobbyB on June 29, 2017, 09:01:59 PM
Ain't nothing wrong with a spray paint job. Don't look right or how you wanted it... paint over it.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: TexasRedNeck on June 29, 2017, 09:06:15 PM
Step 1 to break in a new AR.

throw it on the ground and scratch it all up

Step 2

rattle can a cammo job

Step 3

run 1000 rounds through it...
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on June 29, 2017, 10:18:23 PM
Charles- how would you sight in?  30/200 dead on, or get it on paper x" high at 50, then x" high at 100 and tune dead on at 200?

Planned on getting on paper/groups using PPU M80 147g and then tuning at distance using Federal GMM 168g and 175g.

Could you run ballistic numbers for those 3 rounds for me?

Hints and pointers are welcome - should I clean the barrel after each group to break it in properly?
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: TexasRedNeck on June 30, 2017, 06:11:38 AM
I'll happily run some numbers for you. What was the barrel length again?  It may be week after next since I'm about to check out for a week and the software is on my desktop computer.

I always Zero at a 100 and dial from there. 

I'd consult your barrel mfg for their recommendations but iirc my builder  said  5 slow rounds letting the barrel cool between rounds and then a patch of sweets 7.62 always from chamber to muzzle 10 times until clean. Three times of that routine and then I clean about every 50 rounds.


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Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on June 30, 2017, 09:35:45 AM
Thanks Charles!  Barrel length is 16"
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on July 03, 2017, 07:54:48 AM
So now that I've got the rifle topped off with a quality scope: http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-viper-pst-2-5-10x44-riflescope-with-ebr-1-moa-reticle  [Don, check it out!  It'd be sweet atop your M14]

I need some suggestions for sources to learn how best to use a precision scope with a tactical reticle (MOA) such as a book, internet etc.  Possibly some "Cliff Notes" style suggestions from those of you experienced in such endeavors.  Wanting to be able to range with it, calculate (or dial) hold over for shots past 200 yrds, and read and adjust for wind drift or a moving target.

Looking to do this so that the coming "slingin' of lead" is done with purpose and I'm able to accelerate the learning curve beyond my current (limited) knowledge base of sighting in and then "leaving it alone" aside from the rare and occasional use of "Kentucky Windage" to get it in the neighborhood.

I can get "dope tables" made by Vortex, that slide into the inside of the lens cap so I know that'll help tremendously, once I know how best to use and understand "what" information will be most useful.

The scope booklet has some basic information, along with "subtensions" of the reticle......not sure how I'd use .15 moa (thickness of the reticle hair) in calculation of things?

So, there lies my knowledge gap that I'm hoping you all can help fill it in.  I'm also aware that there's no substitute for actually being behind the scope "doing it"......just want to maximize the efficiency of that time!
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cruizng on July 03, 2017, 11:32:22 AM
Well I always need pictures and crayons to help me so this video was actually pretty good for me when I was looking for a scope.

https://youtu.be/VA2PZBD5Tjg

Looks like your scope is 1/4 clicks per MOA so it should be pretty relevant.

Sling some lead. Wait.. in IL can you still use lead? OR do you need to use unobtaium?  :beercheers:
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: Bear9350 on July 03, 2017, 12:09:05 PM
It's all geometry.  Moa stands for minute of angle.  In a circle there is 360 degrees and each degree can be divided into 60 minutes.  At 100 yards 1 minute comes out to 1.047 inches.  So if you draw a triangle with a really long leg equal to 100 yards and a really short leg of 1.047 inches the corresponding acute angle would be 1 minute.  Generally 1.047 is rounded to 1.  This is fine unless you are making large adjustments.

If you push out to 200 yards and make the same 1 minute adjustment your short leg will be about 2. You can use the 1 to 100 yard ratio to determine your adjustment at any yardage.  You can use the same adjustment backwards to determine the amount of minutes adjustment needed to change your point of impact at a known distance.  1 click is a 1/4 moa, so 4 clicks is 1 moa of adjustment.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: Bear9350 on July 03, 2017, 12:23:58 PM
Using your reticle to range is a similar concept in reverse.  You will need to know the size of what ever object you are ranging to.  So say you know you are looking at an object through your scope.  You know the size of the object and how many minutes tall it appears.  Using the same triangle/ ratio you can determine the long leg of the triangle to determine the range.  Remember the second focal plane scope will only be accurate on the highest power for ranging and hold overs.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: KensAuto on July 03, 2017, 05:38:45 PM
Hey Bear, this is 'Merica...how 'bout some dang English!

Seriously, I've never used the scope to judge distance...too much work for my little brain. It's sooo much easier to use a good range finder. If Mike doesn't have a mil dot for size reference, and just trying to calculate with 1/4 moa lines, or spacing between lines, he might need a calculator in the field!
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: Bear9350 on July 03, 2017, 07:01:47 PM
He asked.  He can make some tables up to reference but its always could to understand the reasonings for it.  Looking at his reticle type I would think he should be able to use it on high power to range out a ways and get a decent estimate.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: KensAuto on July 03, 2017, 07:15:50 PM
I agree...just couldn't refrain from giving you a hard time about being smart, at the same time giving myself credit for being an idiot. (redneck reasoning 101)
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: Bear9350 on July 03, 2017, 07:21:29 PM
If you are going to be cranking on the turrets or doing holdovers to take shots you need to make sure you got your scope on level.  Simple way to test it is a tall target test.  At the bottom of taller target place an aim point.  Draw a vertical line to the top of the target using a level.  With your scope zeroed place a group on your aim point.  Crank the turrets up nearly the length of your target.  Using the same aim point shoot a second group.  The second group should be on the line.  You can then measure the distance between your to groups to then determine how accurate your turrets are.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on July 03, 2017, 08:27:34 PM
Thanks Bear - good info and ideas
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: Bear9350 on July 03, 2017, 08:41:33 PM
I agree...just couldn't refrain from giving you a hard time about being smart, at the same time giving myself credit for being an idiot. (redneck reasoning 101)

Math isn't supposed to be wrote out in words.  It always makes it look a lot more confusing.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: TexasRedNeck on July 03, 2017, 10:17:13 PM
I don't do MOA. I only do MIL. What ever system you choose make sure that all your weapons systems are the same. Only one system to learn. Computers can give you trajectory tables but only real world shooting can show you the real dope. Get a log book and keep detailed meticulous records. Temp humidity wind ammo distance all factor into your dope book. Shoot a lot and keep records


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Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on July 07, 2017, 08:06:19 PM
This book came yesterday- easy read so far and good information and explainations.  http://vortexoptics.com/product/the-ultimate-optics-guide-to-rifle-shooting

Finished odds and ends like installing a Magpul angled foregrip, some grip panels on the handguard and a quick throw lever on the magnification ring of the scope as its pretty stiff.

I then ran a patch down the barrel to dry it in preparation for sight-in.... holy cats was it dirty!  Patch came out BLACK and I ended up braking out the entire cleaning kit to take care of it.  The only thing I can figure out is it was manufacturing grime?  Being the first time I've put one together instead of purchasing a completed rifle, it never dawned on me to fully clean the barrel - really glad I did since the amount of grime wouldn't have done barrel break-in any good and seems to me like it might have ruined the sub MOA accuracy potential of it.  Breach was crud laden as well- NOW I'm starting with a clean, unfired rifle.

Question: Will a 6" - 9" bipod be high enough for shooting prone - thoughts?
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: JR on July 07, 2017, 08:16:58 PM
I like the quick throw ring, need to look into that.

20rd on the ar keeps it flush with the grip so if the grip clears you should be good.

Anyone tried the new 25rd Magpul's?
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on July 20, 2017, 04:42:45 PM
Barrel Break-in/Sight-in Day:

After mounting scope, I visually bore sighted it off the kitchen table using a spot on the neighbors house for a point of aim.  So first couple of shots at 25yrds, I expected on the paper, but not this close!
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on July 20, 2017, 04:47:44 PM
First snag, bolt wasn't moving at all....?  Turns out that the adjustable gas block was tightened down all the way, so we opened it a turn and shot some more.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: JR on July 20, 2017, 04:57:56 PM
Very nice for a new barrel.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on July 20, 2017, 04:59:11 PM
So, with another 1 1/2 turns opening the gas block, its cycling correctly AND it doesn't kick hardly at all!  These are the final 5 shots before moving to the 100 yrd. range.  This was with M80 147g PPU ammo
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on July 20, 2017, 05:17:55 PM
So, all previous images were of break-in rounds WITHOUT any adjustment to the scope.  The next 5 rounds were about 9" high and somewhat right ~3", but I figured most of that was me. So, after another cleaning (did that every 5 rounds) I brought it down 32 clicks (8 MOA) and was close.  Finished breaking in with M80 rounds and cleaned it for a final time and switched to Federal Gold Medal Match 175g. Shot 3 which were a little high still, corrected 1/2" down and shot the remaining without "waiting" between shots for the barrel to cool!  WAY more enjoyable!
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: Sammconn on July 20, 2017, 05:51:14 PM
Nice, glad to hear you've got it running!
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: TexasRedNeck on July 20, 2017, 06:09:48 PM
Love .30 holes


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Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: KensAuto on July 20, 2017, 06:55:44 PM
Heck Ya!!
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: Nate on July 20, 2017, 08:20:21 PM
so just a recommendation for yah mike, and others if they want it.....

in future sight adjustments. say your doing groups of three (it makes it easier to keep track of on the target) after every three rounds, triangulate (with a sharpie)your three shots and place a 1, 2, 3, 4, etc to correspond with which shot group it was.  you should not make any adjustments until you have had at least 3 shot groups (9 rounds). by doing this, you will be able to get a better understanding of what your gun/sight is doing as well as if you are following the 4 basic fundamentals of marksmanship (steady position, aiming, breath control and trigger squeeze).
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on July 20, 2017, 09:50:04 PM
Good suggestion Nate, did similar with the first large target at 100yrd. marking through each hole, changing the O'clock of the mark for each group.  Didn't show that target as it didn't photograph well.  I've got a video of me shooting; it shows how little recoil there is. I'll send it to you Nate, maybe you can figure how to post it.  I tried but got a malfunctioning link so I deleted it.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: TexasRedNeck on July 20, 2017, 09:52:33 PM
Also probably a good idea to shoot the box

http://www.hipointfirearmsforums.com/How-to-Box-Track-a-Scope.html
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: Nate on July 20, 2017, 10:57:31 PM
here yah go mike.

https://youtu.be/2fQARZdRd-Y

Thanks Nate!  This short video shows how little it kicks and was right after we got the gas block functioning properly; hence the look for ejected brass.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: Bear9350 on September 13, 2017, 01:35:44 PM
Would you mind sharing what you have spent on this build?  I'm thinking about doing a similar build.  Only difference is I am thinking about 6.5CM instead of .308.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on September 13, 2017, 08:49:17 PM
I will not put that down in writing as my HH6 thinks the cost of the used scope is the price  :rolleyes:

I will say that it's about as much as my wife thinks I spent less, than the Georgia Precision AR10.  Mine has a Giesselle 2 stage trigger which is an add-on at GA Precision last I looked.  That, the muzzle break / flash suppressor and the Heavy Buffer and spring are KEY to how managed recoil and recovery are.  Barrel selection is a factor that I have no read on yet as I'm certain it's better than my skills are at this point.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: JR on September 13, 2017, 09:01:04 PM
Hope mine turns out as good.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: stlaser on September 13, 2017, 11:06:06 PM
I will not put that down in writing as my HH6 thinks the cost of the used scope is the price  :rolleyes:

This reminds me of building trucks, someone would come over (in front of HH6 no less :facepalm:) and ask how much I had in the build! :rolleyes: I never kept receipts or a build total for a reason..........
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on September 14, 2017, 09:57:20 AM
Here's a link Bear!  Close to mine, with better barrel possibly; some features I have are additional costs for GA Precision version.  Mine's about that all in w/ scope and all "upgrades" that GAP would charge for their stock model.

http://www.gaprecision.net/ga-precision-2016-custom-rifles/ga-precision-gap-10-g2.html
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: Bear9350 on September 14, 2017, 11:01:17 AM
Ok, that gives me a good idea of where you were at.  I'm guessing your gun without scope is close to where I would like my budget to be for it.
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: cudakidd53 on March 04, 2019, 03:08:45 PM
So, after my brother visited yesterday to re-hook the plumbing the counter guys screwed up, I showed him this weapon and came up with a name for it after he left based upon the gun that shall not be mentioned....."Voldemorte" (Harry Potter reference) - LOL!
Title: Re: Mike's AR-10 Build
Post by: BobbyB on March 06, 2019, 08:30:18 PM
How's it been shooting? Decide to change anything up on it after spending sometime behind the trigger?