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Offline Flyin6

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It was never about equality in marriage between heterosexual and homosexual. The people who are using the gay movement and have had recent major successes are simply moving to the next step which I have believed from the very start is about hushing Christians through the removal of our first amendment rights.
And from the book of Don's predictions it does not stop there. I know thin because this is evil, and evil comes from Satan, and Satan is all about death, so this is eventually about our death. Funny, really, because our physical death releases us to glory...to be with our king where we are restored and live in his eternal glory. So, the moral to this immoral story is: It aien't ever going to be easy nor fair while we Christians live in a physical world where Satan is allowed to have his way. But it sure is fun to do God's work and fight all of that, isn't it?!





'Gays' demand 'irreversible harm' to Christian

'This is not about whether plaintiffs can obtain Kentucky marriage license'

Homosexuals who are behind a lawsuit against a Christian county employee in Kentucky for declining to issue marriage licenses for same-sex duos are trying to lash out with “irreversible and substantial harm” to her, according to a court filing in one of the first cases to develop since the U.S. Supreme Court created in its Obergefell decision a direct conflict between the new homosexual “marriage” right and the Constitution’s protection of freedom of religion.

“This case is not about whom a person may marry under Kentucky law. No statewide ban is preventing any plaintiff from marrying whom they want to marry. This case is also not about whether plaintiffs can obtain a Kentucky marriage license. They can. Such licenses, including same-sex ‘marriage’ licenses, are readily available across Kentucky, and plaintiffs can obtain a license from any one of more than 100 counties (including counties surrounding Rowan County, and the counties where multiple court hearings attended by plaintiffs have been held),” said a new court filing in the fight over the ACLU’s attempts to force Rowan Clerk Kim Davis to violate her religious faith.

“This case is also not about whether Kentucky will recognize SSM. The Kentucky governor has declared Kentucky will. Instead, this case is about forcing an individual county clerk (Davis) to authorize and personally approve SSM in violation of her fundamental religious liberty and speech rights.”

WND reported earlier when the case was brought, following U.S. Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito’s warning that the “same-sex marriage” ruling would be used to “stamp out” those who disagree with the progressive agenda.

Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis has declined to issue the licenses because it would violate her First Amendment rights to practice her faith. The ACLU then sued her.

Mat Staver, founder of Liberty Counsel, which is representing Davis, said that despite “the opinion of five black-robed lawyers, the Constitution still governs the United States, and the First Amendment guarantees Kim and every American the free exercise of religion.”

Who put the American family in the bull’s-eye? Read “Takedown, From Communists to Progressives How the Left Has Sabotaged Family and Marriage” to read the origins of the war.

In a response brief to the ACLU’s request for an order targeting the clerk’s religious rights, Liberty Counsel said the case is “a thinly veiled attempt at deeming her religious conscience meaningless and punishing her for even asserting a religious objection to authorizing SSM.”




It continued, “In fact, these plaintiffs sought licenses from Davis only after learning of her religious objections to SSM, and they refuse to obtain a license elsewhere.”

They want, the court filing explains, “to induce irreversible and substantial harm to the religious conscience of Davis.”

“If Davis’ religious objection cannot be accommodated under the circumstances of this case, then elected officials have no real religious freedom when they take public office,” Staver warned.

The brief argues, “There is no constitutional right to have a particular person authorize a SSM license and affix their imprimatur to that permanent public record, especially if that person holds deep religious convictions prohibiting her from participating in and approving of SSM.”

It continued, “Contrary to plaintiffs’ insatiable demands, such individual rights and freedoms so fundamental to liberty are neither surrendered at the entry door of public service nor waived upon taking an oath of office. To suggest otherwise creates a religious (or anti-religious) test for holding office – which the United States and Kentucky Constitutions expressly forbid.”

When the Supreme Court issues its Obergefell decision and the Kentucky governor ordered same-sex “marriages” to be recognized, Davis “discontinued issuing any marriage licenses” in order to make sure “all individuals and couples were treated the same.”

State law, the brief explains, orders that the “government shall not substantially burden a person’s freedom of religion.”

Not, at least, without “clear and convincing evidence that it has a compelling government interest in infringing the specific act or refusal to act and has used the least restrictive means to further that interest.”

The brief points out that not only does the county executive have the statutory authorize to issue such licenses, but a multitude of other locations are available to the plaintiffs within a short drive.

The legal team explains that Davis does not claim her religious freedom is burdened if someone else issues such a license, and that opens the door to a variety of accommodations that protects the First Amendment in the fight.

Who put the American family in the bull’s-eye? Read “Takedown, From Communists to Progressives How the Left Has Sabotaged Family and Marriage” to read the origins of the war.

The brief also notes the Constitution does not allow government to order people what to say – the idea of forced speech – and that’s exactly what is being attempted in Kentucky.

Liberty Counsel has cited a previous dispute between work obligations and religious rights on which the Supreme Court ruled. At that time, then-Justice William Brennan, who was far from a conservative, said in Sherbert v. Verner that to “condition the availability of benefits on this [worker's] willingness to violate a cardinal principle of her religious faith effectively penalizes the free exercise of her constitutional liberties.”Roger Gannam, senior litigation attorney for Liberty Council, said the case “is not about couples who want to be married – they can easily get married in Kentucky.”

“This case is about crushing dissent and removing Christian public servants from office. Religion tests for holding elected office are unconstitutional and un-American,” he said.

When the Supreme Court announced its marriage decision June 26, Alito said it “usurps the constitutional right of the people to decide whether to keep or alter the traditional understanding of marriage.”

“The decision will also have other important consequences,” he said. “It will be used to vilify Americans who are unwilling to assent to the new orthodoxy. In the course of its opinion, the majority compares traditional marriage laws to laws that denied equal treatment for African-Americans and women. The implications of this analogy will be exploited by those who are determined to stamp out every vestige of dissent.”

A lawyer for the ACLU told the Louisville Courier-Journal the objective of the case is to force the Christian worker to behave according to the dictates of the new social standard.

“Why should they be held to a different standard

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2015/08/gays-demand-irreversible-harm-to-christian/#Xo5v5PsVIoy7FzS0.99
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Gay Marriage equality, isn't about equality! Big surprise (Not)
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2015, 10:50:00 AM »
What do politicians fear more than anything else?  Loss of power. Being voted out. When the Christian majority stands up and makes its 10:1 or 20:1 voice heard, we will return to our sanity.


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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Gay Marriage equality, isn't about equality! Big surprise (Not)
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2015, 09:20:07 AM »
What do politicians fear more than anything else?  Loss of power. Being voted out. When the Christian majority stands up and makes its 10:1 or 20:1 voice heard, we will return to our sanity.


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Which begs the question, Why don't they?

As a Christian, I am appalled by abortion
As a Christian, I am appalled by planned parenthood
As a Christian, I am appalled by gay marriage
As a Christian, I am appalled by cults and devil worship coming out of the shadows
As a Christian, I am appalled by a lying, cheating Washington crowd
As a Christian, I hate a cheater
As a Christian, I hate a liar
As a Christian, I hate it when the ACLU gets a manger scene removed
As a Christian, I hate it when the liars try to say my country is not a Christian nation
As a Christian, I hate it when our fight men and women are forced to accept things they cannot
As a Christian, I hate to watch the beheading of Christians in the combat areas
As a Christian, I hate it when Christmas becomes "The holiday Season"
As a Christian, I hate it when I see American women wearing birkas, knowing they are enslaved
As a Christian, I hate it knowing Muslims are inheriting key positions in my government
As a Christian, I hate watching my kids pray around a freezing flag pole because they are not allowed to pray inside the building
As a Christian, I am plain fed up with this anti God bull crap. I am done with it, so I write my senators, meet with my representatives, teach and talk in church, create organizations to fight for our rights, our GOD given rights....But that's just me, and you great men here are but a few...Where is everyone else???
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Gay Marriage equality, isn't about equality! Big surprise (Not)
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2015, 10:07:03 AM »
Psalm 97:10 Ye that love the LORD, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked


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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Gay Marriage equality, isn't about equality! Big surprise (Not)
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2015, 10:10:28 AM »
Psalm 119:28 Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way.


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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Gay Marriage equality, isn't about equality! Big surprise (Not)
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2015, 10:12:48 AM »
Psalm 119:163 I hate and abhor lying: but thy law do I love.


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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Gay Marriage equality, isn't about equality! Big surprise (Not)
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2015, 10:15:32 AM »
And finally Psalm 139:21-22     21  Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?
    22  I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.

So don't tell me I'm not supposed to hate because God is a God of love. God absolutely hates sin and we are commanded to hate evil and sin as well.


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OldKooT

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Re: Gay Marriage equality, isn't about equality! Big surprise (Not)
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2015, 01:51:45 PM »
Food for thought....

Leviticus 19:17 “You shall not hate your brother in your heart, but you shall reason frankly with your neighbor, lest you incur sin because of him.

Us being sinful, we need to take into account we do not have Gods wisdom. Or his ability to know a mans heart.
I believe that his message above is just that.

I feel as Christians we need to "reason" with sincerity and conviction....as to the best of our abilities.

A recent topic that was mentioned here was Gay Marriage. I personally do not like it for many reasons...most have to do with the lack of God fearing discussion on either side of the issue actually. I feel that "reason" goes back to a point even before our founding fathers started this country. "Marriage" was recorded by the states as a matter of record when this country began. Neither the state nor the Fed government was in the business of granting permission for such things, nor was the church actually. It should have been left as such, and should be returned to that today. I am unsure if you are aware but your marriage "license" is a legally binding contract between three parties. You, your partner and the goverment these days. If you were married in the church then your minister/priest or whatever was the states legal representative.

You have to go back in history to a period when this all began in this country. Early colonies had made it law of man you could not marry someone that was not of your race. It came to the realization of the goverment that if they issued a permit or "license" which is a Latin word meaning lacking social acceptance or restraint...they could make money...lots of money. It became a money grabbing way of taxing the nation for what amounted to Love or even as was traditional a business agreement as many marriages were. The Lords definition in the bible of marriage and ours today and even the churches in most cases, differ considerably.  In the bible a Father granted permission, in the early USA it was the Father and Mother, and also public notice was required in the paper preceding the marriage.

Earlier in history even The Catholic Church didn't consider it a sacrament until 1215 which was even then based on a agreement between the couple, not a church regulated ceremony for ages after that.

So what has happened is we "man" have made laws to benefit the financial coffers of the Fed and State goverment and destroy a social culture in the process. It gets complicated once one starts looking at some facts.

In 1833, Pennsylvania's chief justice warned that a strict legal interpretation of rules governing marriage validity would render "the vast majority" of births in that state illegitimate. This was also an issue in Europe when the Catholic church considered the same reality. We all know of separation of church and state...Keep this in mind further on.

130 years ago men could still legally beat and imprison their wives. 40 years ago men and women did NOT have equal say in a marriage. In 1979 the last state repealed the "head and Master" law.

It was 1993 when Marital rape became a possibility in every state. Before that it didn't exists in many, and earlier on... in any state.

What does this all mean today?

In a recap "today" we have a law regarding marriage not being legal unless licensed. That law in it self is against Christian values I feel. It gives the state legal authority over your marriage and pushes God out of the equation at the onset. The reason for the law was to generate income for the goverment. Many churches and states used the law as a way to continue to promote bigotry and racism.  And now at this point in time, we have a huge debate...and oddly for what?

Some traditional value dreamed up by fiscal experts as to how to get more of your wealth? Oh wait... the state and Feds motivation now seems to largely be the increased revenue of gay unions. It's not about your license filing fee. It's about wealth management of the couples assets, taxation, and control of your kids and many other $$$$ driven reasons. And Gay folks are just now in my opinion stupidly being suckered in to adding their $$$$ to the pot.

The concern of Christian values is not the issue. Christians have been dutifully signing a contract with the state for a long time that guarantee God's say in marriage/family gets to be debated by man, specifically the Government. Anyone here with a marriage "license" has arguably knowingly given up their rights as head of household, as a Father and as a moral representative of Christ in many regards in such matters. Cow-towing to the state and Fed's legal say in your Family's affairs. Also as a matter of point it's not in any stretch of the imagination a separation of church and state when a Minister or Priest is a legal representative of the State.

Reason and understanding do in my opinion change this issue. Moral decay is a concern I share it as well... it's been ongoing since the concept began. Most seem to not see this.....
















Offline halsey

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Re: Gay Marriage equality, isn't about equality! Big surprise (Not)
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2015, 03:33:46 PM »

well said Norm.. thank you.

Offline Flyin6

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Re: Gay Marriage equality, isn't about equality! Big surprise (Not)
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2015, 04:35:04 PM »
Norm, I'm sorry friend, but you're wrong about this

You make the argument that the state obtains maintains control through the issuance of a license. That is the law, indeed, however to a Christian, it is simply a door that one walks through to get to the place where a Living God, one that we believe in, puts together a man and a woman. No one thinks about the fact that there is some sort of three way contract. We hear the words and we believe in a Christian wedding that we are saying our vowels before God, not a state or a government of any kind.

Taking things out of the context they were stated in is a common ploy and the basis for things untrue. The bible is the word of God. It is our guide, we live by it and it guides our decisions, the way we think and conduct our lives. What man, any man has done to interpret it in some way or another has nothing to do with God's word, all those examples you made are man's contrivances and with we being fallible and given to a sinful nature, of course, got a lot of things wrong. We continue to get things wrong with glossing over points, trying to make rules that fit everyone, and so forth.

What man has done along the way in your many examples can be shown to be outdated by any 4th grader. But which constant has remained throughout all of that? God's word has. We have changed, not him

God thinks homosexuality is abhorrent

Romans 1:26-27  ESV

For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Romans 12:9  ESV

Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good

Psalm 97:10  ESV

O you who love the Lord, hate evil! He preserves the lives of his saints; he delivers them from the hand of the wicked.

Romans 1:18  ESV

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.

Psalm 11:1-15:5  ESV

To the choirmaster. Of David. In the Lord I take refuge; how can you say to my soul, “Flee like a bird to your mountain, for behold, the wicked bend the bow; they have fitted their arrow to the string to shoot in the dark at the upright in heart; if the foundations are destroyed, what can the righteous do?” The Lord is in his holy temple; the Lord's throne is in heaven; his eyes see, his eyelids test the children of man. The Lord tests the righteous, but his soul hates the wicked and the one who loves violence. ...

God hates sin. “For you are not a God who delights in wickedness; evil may not dwell with you” (Psa. 5:4; cf. Prov. 6:16-19). He hates sin because He is holy (cf. Isa. 6:3). Sin is completely contradictory to His Holy & Divine Nature. And as imitators of God (Eph. 5:1), Christians are to hate sin (cf. Psa. 97:10).

It is clear here that God hates sin. He commands us to repent, to turn away from it. He gives us a lot of guidance, like in the last verse: Christians are to hate sin
Specifically:
Psalm 97:10New International Version (NIV)

10 Let those who love the Lord hate evil,
    for he guards the lives of his faithful ones
    and delivers them from the hand of the wicked.

So 5 lawyers decide to make a ruling that runs headlong against this fundamental belief. Where does that leave we believers. They said it is OK, our God says it is not...OK, God wins, simple enough for me

But that stance will not be without consequences.

But let's look a bit deeper.

Is this really about Gay rights...Gay legal rights. Sure looks like it on the surface. I heard of one gay man who's "Partner" dies. Afterward the family pushed out the surviving gay lover. The survivor who was genuinely hurt makes the argument that he could not morn the death of his partner, and they had raised a child together, the child of the one who passed on. Well, that's not a good situation, but you have to realize at some point that it was/is all messed up because it was conceived in sin. So why should we expect things to be all peachy now?

But at the root, Satan who I believe is at the root of all this hates gays. He'll kill them as quick as he can. But use them he will. He is using the gay rights crowbar to work on the bigger issue. Christianity itself. This is and always has been about the ultimate destruction of Christianity, don't for one second believe anything else.




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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Gay Marriage equality, isn't about equality! Big surprise (Not)
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2015, 08:12:44 PM »
Well said Don.  God instituted marriage. The fact that the homosexuals want to force us to call it marriage is an affront to all Christians.  Let the government give them a civil union and the tax and death benefits , but don't force me to equate it to a God instituted union between a man and a woman.  We are called upon to obey the laws of man, up to and until they conflict with the laws of God. Then we must hold fast our convictions and be willing to suffer the consequences.


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Offline husker77c

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Re: Gay Marriage equality, isn't about equality! Big surprise (Not)
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2015, 08:52:37 PM »
.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 09:06:42 PM by husker77c »

Offline JR

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Re: Gay Marriage equality, isn't about equality! Big surprise (Not)
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2015, 11:12:49 PM »
Besides the well thought out phrases above, they want MORE rights than the average citizen. Gays as a whole had the same right as any other citizen, but wanted the LAW changed to give them a right that does not exist (JMHO)

Under the law we are supposed to be equal. Marriage by definition is the "joining of opposites" when not used in marriage as we normally think.

Moral, historical and faiths state marriage as between a man and woman. With the so called acceptance of gay marriage you are being told what is moral. Marriage is also the basis of any stable society that is expected to prosper or even survive.

I will not be told what marriage is, that cannot be changes. Some rulings and laws are just wrong, period.

I also don't care what someone does in private as long as it doesn't affect me or mine. I hate SF with all the liberal crud, open nudity, sleep or pee anywhere. I shouldn't have to explain to my kids why joe is kissing joe.

I am no where near as articulate as most of you. Can't quote the Bible as many can, I just know what is right and wrong.
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OldKooT

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Re: Gay Marriage equality, isn't about equality! Big surprise (Not)
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2015, 05:26:05 PM »
Don....I believe my point was exactly that. Man's meddling with "marriage" is not at all new. We do not need mans laws religious or civic, to be married in the Lords eyes. The bible is rather clear on exactly that fact.

I am going to stick with what the bible says. We are just men....all of us. You me, the minister, everyone, just men.

 


Offline Flyin6

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Re: Gay Marriage equality, isn't about equality! Big surprise (Not)
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2015, 09:46:21 PM »
OK

^^^^^ Here is a case of two guys saying the same thing differently, I guess. G-T-G
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: Gay Marriage equality, isn't about equality! Big surprise (Not)
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2015, 09:55:42 PM »
I thought I heard on the news that Mrs. Davis lost the case. Great example of Religious prejudice .
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