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Author Topic: Shall WE support the County Clerk in Kentucky?  (Read 4553 times)

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Offline cudakidd53

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Shall WE support the County Clerk in Kentucky?
« on: September 06, 2015, 08:33:10 PM »
Had a thought and ran it by Don:

What if WE housed the fund donations for the Kentucky County Clerk who's standing on her beliefs and religious convictions?  Since "Go Fund Me" is pushing its anti-religious agend, why don't we stand-up for her and provide a trust worthy site that's housed close to the scene of the controversy?

What say you all?

If there's enough support, Don's behind it and we can all spitball ideas to get this outside of our small community and get it out there!
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Shall WE support the County Clerk in Kentucky?
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2015, 08:48:42 PM »
I'll support our collective decision to do this, but I would ask for some open discussion.

And know if we do go forth with this we invite trouble. Personally, I like a fight, so I'm OK with proceeding, however the left activists are mean, cruel, and dangerous, so think about it

If we do it, and let's not just jump in yet, then I'll collect the monies and send them to the Liberty fund in the name and for the defense of Mrs Davis from the membership of "Real-Man" a concerned, Christian group of men.

Write your thoughts here, or PM me if you feel the need to do that
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Online TexasRedNeck

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Re: Shall WE support the County Clerk in Kentucky?
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2015, 10:35:56 PM »
I'm up for a fight.  We do have to keep in mind that attention to us and this site can result in some pretty malicious cyber retaliation, including DNS attack on this site
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Offline Higher Caliber

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Re: Shall WE support the County Clerk in Kentucky?
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2015, 12:25:51 AM »
I'm not personally all about it based upon my personal views on legislating morality. This shouldn't even be a thing. I don't agree with her being jailed indefinitely until she has a change of heart though. If we decide to go this route, give me some time to sanitize.


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Offline Higher Caliber

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Re: Shall WE support the County Clerk in Kentucky?
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2015, 12:26:25 AM »

I'm up for a fight.  We do have to keep in mind that attention to us and this site can result in some pretty malicious cyber retaliation, including DNS attack on this site

My thoughts exactly...


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Online JR

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Re: Shall WE support the County Clerk in Kentucky?
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2015, 03:13:57 AM »
I'm in for sure. Bring it on!!
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Offline cudakidd53

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Re: Shall WE support the County Clerk in Kentucky?
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2015, 07:56:57 AM »
I thought along the same lines as RN and HC though I also feel it's right to stand up for Christian values.  I know we cannot legislate morality, but we can DEMAND upholding and ENFORCING the laws we have, enforcing the separation of powers under the Constitution and Bill of Rights, and we can speak-up when ANY of the 3 branches of government oversteps its bounds!

I feel we should all pray on it, continue to discuss it, research pitfalls to doing so, prepare properly prior to taking forward action and set a deadline for making our decision.

Keep bouncing this around-
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Offline Dawg25385

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Re: Shall WE support the County Clerk in Kentucky?
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2015, 10:46:45 PM »
I personally cannot get behind this, and here's why. She's an elected official, and she's not being forced to do anything against her will. She is however being forced to do her job, as she was elected to do. What do you do when you hate your job? Quit and find a better job. Sorry lady, it's the law... You're not in a position to determine the law, just administer it. Doesn't Jesus speak about what to do when worldly law is in conflict with Gods law? "Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's."”
Matthew‬ 22:21‬ NASB‬‬

Fellas, I've gotta get something else off my chest... Why is everyone here quick to pick up the pitchforks when it comes to gay marriage, but I didn't see one dang peep out of anybody when the Ashley Madison hack hit the headlines?? 40 million liars and cheaters registered on a website for INFIDELITY, but we blame gays for ruining the sanctity of marriage... Makes sense.

Divorce rate is nearing 50% in the United States, coupled with rampant  infidelity, it's a bit hypocritical to point to gays as being the ultimate destruction of traditional marriage when it seems we're doing a pretty good job of that on our own.

I'm sure I'll get lit up for this, but it's been burnin in me for awhile. So, swing away.


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Offline Higher Caliber

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Re: Shall WE support the County Clerk in Kentucky?
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2015, 02:00:00 AM »
The dawg is on point here. I will come out and say that I have never found any issue with "gay marriage". It's not my place to have an opinion. We can cherry pick bible verses in opposition to "gay marriage" along with other sins. There's an interpretation of a verse for and against basically anything we can do. I don't go to church. I believe and I worship in my own way. I catch people post bible study making out with people they don't belong to on a regular basis. I worked a case involving a catholic priest who drugged little boys and sold them by the hour to other parishioners and otherwise "upstanding" members of the community. Most recently I arrested a youth pastor for beating his wife and defended himself with versus from the bible. Blackened both her eyes. When I *do* go to a church, I cant go locally, because I look around and see a mope in every pew, who I have busted for one thing or another that would otherwise be sinful pretending they are upstanding citizens. I have a really difficult time with it. Every church I have ever attended, I have been let down in one way or another by the leadership there. I find myself on Monday morning investigating an elder for embezzling money or a pastor who uses hotel vouchers meant for homeless people to meet prostitutes. I am continuously let down. Maybe satan just works mysteriously around me to keep me away from organized religion, but I have found myself the closest to God, sipping a blue moon, watching the sun rise after a long shift. Or laying my hand on someone in distress and praying for them. I have confided in some of you how my life has come about. There was a good period of time, I was an un-believer. Sometimes I find I'm peeling myself from the fence even and I know that is most likely satans work.

I realize our country was founded fundamentally on Christian values, but above that we cherish our ability to live as we see fit, bathed in liberty and constantly pursuing happiness. In my utopia, we would worship as we saw fit without critique from the government or choose not to worship at all and be constitutionally protected in it. I don't think the government should have any part in marriages or unions or whatever we wish to call them. There should be no monetary benefit or eligibility for tax deduction or whatever for marriage. Marriages should take place between two individuals and whatever entity they claim if they wish to claim one. When the electorate votes solely on issues of morality ignorant to actual policy, we all lose and we are divided. We can be "United" and different at the same time.

If we truly believe God gave us free will, who is our government to legislate for or against the acts of consenting parties? I realize this discussion will most likely illustrate a generation gap between us all and be proof of our evolving society. But I think it's an important discussion to have. You guys wont be around much longer! ;) no offense and us young bucks will be at the helm. I have never personally been effected negatively by "gay marriage". But infidelity has turned my life upside down on a couple of occasions! Can anyone present any evidence where "gay marriage" has personally effected them negatively? 
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Offline Farmer Jon

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Re: Shall WE support the County Clerk in Kentucky?
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2015, 08:05:08 AM »
I don't have an issue with gay marriage. They are going to be together anyway so so what? We have more important issues to worry about.
I do commend her for standing up for her religious beliefs and not backing down. I just have to ask if she was Muslim would she have been jailed?
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Shall WE support the County Clerk in Kentucky?
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2015, 08:43:12 AM »
Good that we can have a discussion about all of this.

Mrs. Davis is jailed illegally for few reasons.
First the Supreme Court, actually 5 of them ruled that states must allow Gay Marriage. But, THEY CAN'T DO THAT. That as HC states is not their business, it is that of the states.
Which brings up the second point. The Constitution of Kentucky forbids marriage of anything but a man and a woman. No one here has moved to change that, and that is our states business, not the feds. Finally we still have at least a reference to a constitution, and can read a 1st amendment. That amendment protects her and others when a person, a citizen of this country is forced to do something against her religious beliefs.

And these days things are not fair. I think it is OK to bash Christians, but not Muslims. If a Muslim clerk made such a decision, would a judge have jailed her? I don't think there is any chance in hell he would have, because we are afraid of Muslims, both of offending them and we know the other Muslims across of this nation would have started burning. Likely joined with the Ferguson style haters and just set the nation on fire. But Christians are for the most part quiet and law abiding citizens. They will hold signs, raise money for a proper defense and write letters, but we will destroy nothing. Therefore we are picked out because we are, perhaps, easier targets???

On the point that Gay Marriage is OK, it is not. Sorry, but no gray area here

A quick search produced this:
Homosexuality is condemned in the Bible. The most comprehensive, general passage against homosexual conduct is at Romans 1:18-32. Below are additional specific Bible verses that condemn homosexuality:
Leviticus 18:22 - You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 - If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.
Romans 1:26-27 - For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
I Corinthians 6:9(NIV) - Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
I Timothy 1:8-11 (NASB) - "But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted."
2 Peter 2:6 (ESV): - ... by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes [God] condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly
Jude 1:6-7 (NASB) - And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

Biblical References Against Homosexual Marriage

Many passages in the Bible implicitly condemn homosexual marriage:[11]
Genesis 2:24 (“Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.”)
Mark 10:6-8 (“But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’ ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.’”)
Epistle to the Hebrews 13:4 ("Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous.").

Biblical Requirement to Disapprove of Homosexuality by Others

The Bible condemns those who approve of homosexual conduct:
Romans 1:32: "Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them."[12]
Proverbs 24:24–25: "He who says to the wicked, 'You are righteous,'

Peoples will curse him, nations will abhor him; But to those who rebuke the wicked will be delight, And a good blessing will come upon them."[13]

And finally this:

Romans 1:18-32New International Version (NIV)

God’s Wrath Against Sinful Humanity

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

Pretty clear to me. Now into the final third of my walk upon this world, I have dumbed down the exuberance and foolishness of my youth and have become a simpler man in terms of my reasoning. I don't have to give a great amount of thought to many subjects, I simply will follow God's will, Law, and word. All of that tells me Gay Marriage is wrong.

But wrong for some more reasons as well. You see this is just a first step in legitimizing perversion. We took the giant leap to say two men can lay together. Next we spent millions parading Catlin around, honoring shim (She-him) above even our hallowed warriors and peace keepers. There is a move to get polygamy approved. And there is an organization called Manbla (I think) who argues that love-making between a man and a boy is acceptable, and a natural thing.

So those who would move 6 inches to say Gay marriage is OK, how much further would you move to get comfortable with some 30 year old pervert calling up and asking your son out for a weekend romp? Now just take a moment and think about this.

At which point does a woman turn from a little pregnant to really pregnant? Or was she just pregnant from the very micro second God made her that way?

How many instances did God say "I have a gray area here, and at some point you are going to be in the wrong? Never of course. What he said is what I say. At that exact instant, you were wrong! And God goes on to say I am a God of love and through my grace, you still have a chance. That opportunity, of course is to ask for forgiveness for your sin to God, through the blood of Christ.

I'm the same way (I hope) My wife has a friend who is gay. We are having her down to the farm to help with some things. We both disapprove of her lifestyle choice. Kat sat her down and told her so, and why. But we still have love for the person. Through that love and compassion, perhaps she can see a twinkle of God's grace for us.

On Dawg's point about Ashley Madison...I assume that is some dating or porno site?? Well it is just as bad as gay marriage. Big difference is that five lawyers did not come out and say that I MUST accept pornography and cheating on my wife, something which I cannot do. If I was faced with a situation where I was being made to act in those areas, well, I would refuse, and because it is against my God, whom I love so much more than the foolish laws of man.

Dangerous ground here men. Truth was never easy to uphold or live. Be careful to build your home on solid rock and not quicksand.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2015, 08:44:17 AM by Flyin6 »
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OldKooT

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Re: Shall WE support the County Clerk in Kentucky?
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2015, 09:01:19 AM »
My opinions for what they are worth, are as follows.

I feel the subject of marriage is between man and woman as was given/shown to us in the bible. I don't believe any church, goverment, or legislature should have ever had a say in it. That said, I can't support her position as she presently presents it.

When she comes to the realization the Lord doesn't approve of divorce either, she should then see those marriage licenses then also would violate her faith as she has presented it. Also marriages for a green card, or tax reasons, or to protect a company..... Maybe she should make a career change based on her faith. To be one sided regarding the Lords wishes is hypocritical, and I doubt is the Lords will. It clearly sets a poor example at the very least.

To address what HC said regarding Gay Marriage. I feel it's eroding society and that hurts us all. I feel the same way about marriages of convenience as well. The real issue is within our values as a nation...not some license or user group.

I think if "Christians" wanted to set a example based on the Lords teachings it would be one of Love, compassion and moral upright behavior. Christians want to "fight back" .....then move for marriage to stop being made a mockery of by Christians as well as everyone else.  Introduce laws that would stop marriage being a tax break/change. Stop any and all reasons to see marriage as anything but what it is suppose to be. And stop thinking man has a say in what the Lord puts together. And realize, if the Lord does not approve of a union...well I am sure he can handle it.








Offline Dawg25385

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Re: Shall WE support the County Clerk in Kentucky?
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2015, 09:40:44 AM »
I'm aware of what the bible says about homosexuality chief. Nobody's disputing that it's a sin, as it is written. And I'm sure not saying I think it's "ok".

All I'm saying is there are a lot of hypocrites when it comes to defending the sanctity of marriage by condemning gays. And a long look in the mirror as a Christian community would generate a much more substantial list of concerns as it relates to the sanctity of marriage, than that rendered by the binoculars we're more comfortable looking through.

Why are Christians not picketing to have The Bachelor and The Bachelorette removed from prime-time? That's the biggest mockery I've ever seen of traditional marriage, on national TV no less! I'm serious on this... This is a flipping abomination, and just as destructive to the sanctity of traditional marriage as homosexuality, if not moreso in my humble opinion, and nobody says a damn thing. Why?





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Offline Higher Caliber

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Re: Shall WE support the County Clerk in Kentucky?
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2015, 09:55:57 AM »
"And realize, if the Lord does not approve of a union...well I am sure he can handle it."

I think that's what it's all about. We can't have our cake and eat it too... If we want the law out of our love, we can't ask for more laws to uphold what we see as love and nix the rest.

Obviously we maintain laws that protect the un-consensual minors and animals.

But no matter what we say or feel, some dudes are still gonna be attracted to other dudes and some chicks attracted to chicks! Even if it were illegal!

So the only best answer is to nix the legislation and benefits of marriage altogether!

Whether you believe it's degrading toward society or believe it's inconsequential is irrelevant! Gods got this!


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OldKooT

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Re: Shall WE support the County Clerk in Kentucky?
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2015, 09:59:01 AM »
You make a good point Kyle it's bothers me as well. I have not seen the show your referring to, but there are legions of examples that have been left unchecked by Christians for century's that fit the same mold, and beg the same talking point.


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Re: Shall WE support the County Clerk in Kentucky?
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2015, 10:04:47 AM »
HC I knew we'd agree on something besides Blue Moon is a fine beverage.  :D   


Online JR

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Re: Shall WE support the County Clerk in Kentucky?
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2015, 10:32:32 AM »
You know, I go through this with my wife too.

Now let me say, I have no issue with what 2 people do behind closed doors. Even in public to a point, but there are some morals too. Not that all follow the same but why should I have to explain why joe is kissing mike in public to my kids. Now they can deficate in public, walk around nude, etc. People are so screwed up they can't leave the house without their pet snake or pig.

Marriage is Marriage, but get Gov out. That is between a person and their faith. However with the ruling on this, a gay person asked for more rights, got them and are trying to force us to accept them. She stood up for her believes, as they did. Why can't she be supported under the law the same? When she took the job, marriage was between a man and woman which IS the definition.

Family unit are the base of any normal moral society. Under other faiths and beliefs can't you kill your wife, sell children, lie for business? Now sure a couple of those are illegal, but why? If the meaning of marriage can be change, why not anything else?

The United States are in trouble, from the base on up. Many of us are trying to hold our ground, do whats right and keep the foundations in place.

Maybe, this is just a test from above??

Anyway, that IJMHO  ;)
 
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Re: Shall WE support the County Clerk in Kentucky?
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2015, 10:45:05 AM »
Kyle, the first time i saw a commercial for AM, I flipped. I had to rewind and show my wife....I just couldn't believe it was right there for all to see.
It's just another step in the demoralization of this country, and the world. ...Therefore, like Don, I am starting to see less gray and more black and white.
Gay's? yeah, I do believe that a person can be born with that affliction, yes affliction. No different than a baby with a disfigurement. It is not natural and never will be. Should a gay person be punished for his or her affliction? Should they hide their feelings like those in previous generations, marry a wife to appear "normal"?
I don't know. I personally don't they should be allowed marriage. Where does it stop? Maybe next year we should announce that 1st cousins have the same rights, and if they love each other, marriage should, naturally, be allowed....I mean, who are we to hold them back from each other.
We need more black and white. It's the only way to keep some sense of morallity.
I can only chuckle when thinking of some of the things are forefathers were dealing with, like their daughters' dresses showing to much ankle. I bet they are turnin' in their graves over some of this "stuff".
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Re: Shall WE support the County Clerk in Kentucky?
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2015, 11:20:40 AM »
(popcorn guy)
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Offline moto123

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Re: Shall WE support the County Clerk in Kentucky?
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2015, 01:09:45 PM »
So the only best answer is to nix the legislation and benefits of marriage altogether!

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I agree, any religion should be allowed to call marriage anything they want and should be allowed to follow their own rules with regards to it's implementation.  The only reason all these new groups (gays, etc.) of people want to be allowed to get married is for the tax savings, health insurance benefits, home purchasing options, etc.  If we simply remove all monetary and government benefits to marriage, it becomes nothing more than a word to describe a commitment (at least in the mind of anyone non-Christian).  If we allow two room mates to pay the same taxes individually as they would if they were "married" then everyone is treated equally and fair.  It leaves nothing left to fight over.

OldKooT

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Re: Shall WE support the County Clerk in Kentucky?
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2015, 01:26:21 PM »
Ya know Ken I was thinking about your comment regarding our forefathers. Although I am sure their experiment regarding Democracy would interest them.... I doubt they'd see things as shocking as you may think.

They were no strangers to Homosexuality and perversion. Washington himself was involved in the investigation and prosecution and "drumming" out of the Military a man who was caught attempting Sodomy.

Jefferson helped pen a law that listed the punishment for Sodomy as removal of the offending sexual organ. These are two examples....

At one point, all 50 states had laws against such acts. Problem was, they were rarely enforced.
If we use Kentucky as an example, it was struck down in 1992  (invalidated by courts, Commonwealth v. Wasson, 842 S.W.2d 487) This would make Kentucky a bit progressive as seen below LOL

 On June 26, 2003, the US Supreme Court in a 6-3 decision struck down the Texas same-sex sodomy law, ruling that this private sexual conduct is protected by the liberty rights implicit in the due process clause of the United States Constitution. (See Lawrence v. Texas.) This decision invalidated all state sodomy laws insofar as they applied to noncommercial conduct in private between consenting civilian adults, and overruled an earlier ruling from 1986 in which Georgia's sodomy law had been upheld.

So, maybe what people need to see is that this not only isn't a new thing, it's been virtually untouched by the churches or Christians in general, and allowed to fester to what it has all become today. This isn't an attack on Christianity, it's a attack on morality and religion in general. Which if you think about it, that attack has been around for a LONG time.

Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Judaism you name it they all condemn homosexuality. They have all "progressed" to remain as attractive as possible. Which sounds a lot like politics huh?











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Re: Shall WE support the County Clerk in Kentucky?
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2015, 04:52:25 PM »
I wasn't going back that far in time Norm, if so we could go all the way back to the perverted Romans !!   I should've said great grandparents. I can only imagine what my grandpa would say about gays marching in the streets.....as a WW2 vet, he would probably blame it all on the Japs. lol

I agree on the Churches progressing to some degree.
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Offline cudakidd53

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Re: Shall WE support the County Clerk in Kentucky?
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2015, 04:54:33 PM »
First and foremost: "all have sinned an fall short of the glory of God" but, thankfully:

Romans 5 (KJV)

1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

So, many want to justify their objection, based upon one's past transgressions- God has forgiven them by acceptance of his free gift of salvation and the individuals request of forgiveness and acceptance of God Salvation.  We, at that point are wiped clean as Canadian Arctic Snow- THAT'S GOD'S GIFT TO US!  That's the model of forgiveness- he doesn't say that what you did is ok, what he says is that HE PAID THE PRICE OF DEATH- go and sin no more!  Tall order and we ALL fall short, but we continue in the communion of worship with God, as forgiveness and soldier on, striving for Godliness, but we may fall short- but we don't quit, just as God doesn't quit on us.

GOD doesn't change his standard of acceptance, nor does he change his standard of right or wrong- he's a constant.  Do you stop being a Navy Seal, Army Ranger etc. if you get hurt, fall short in one aspect of a mission?  No, you regroup, recharge and soldier on until you no longer have breath in your lungs, blood in your veins or life in your body.  So it is for all Christians- the mission's rules of engagement don't change, the goal is the same, but the battlefield, opponents and obstacles might vary!  Just as in the military, work and society, Christians come in all shapes, sizes, handicaps and flaws- but we are ALL judged by the same standard and ultimately the same judge.

I too have been let down in a body of faith, denominational church and individual Christians, and I too have been on the giving end of the same.  We continue the fight the good fight, grow in our weaknesses and hopefully turn them into strengths.  Do we judge people?  Yes, should we, not really, but we recognize and evaluate their behavior based upon the standard to which we know we all, as Christians, should live.  It doesn't EVER make sin OK, the standard doesn't lower, society's evolution (degradation) doesn't make it acceptable!

I'm 52- a man stuck at the tail-end of the Baby Boom and one foot in the next Generation......The BIBLE SPANS THEM ALL!  We don't condemn the sinner, rather the sin- we call-out Christians for their falls from grace and should have a higher standard of expectations for them, because we've got the PLAY BOOK and should know better.  The unsaved, the lost, whomever they are and whatever their sins - they are all able to be WHIPED AWAY and gain the gift of Eternal Life, because of one man - JESUS.

EVERY rational for being against this view or that view, will not justify a change in the standard of God's Laws - that we should all be able to agree upon.  We are all good men here, we can have different views on many things- God's Word is consistent, we may all just struggle a bit with our understanding of it, necessitating further study and prayer for clarity from God.

It's a good and valid discussion- thanks to everyone for sharing your views.  Don't know if I'm right or wrong- it's just what I know at this point in my faith!

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Offline EL TATE

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Re: Shall WE support the County Clerk in Kentucky?
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2015, 12:09:14 PM »
Amen!
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Shall WE support the County Clerk in Kentucky?
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2015, 01:19:32 PM »
Mike said it all well. Not based on his feelings or "I guess I'm OK with this or that. He said it based on God's word.

In the end that is all we will have and each of us will personally go before God and give a reckoning of everything we did, everything we thought, all of it. All of it, that is except that which has been forgiven. And only forgiven by Jesus's sacrifice. God says he can't see that. All he can see in you is the blood of his son washing you clean.

People are free to say and do and feel anyway they want. Religion is a great tool for Satan, he uses it even in this thread. Here you read enough and you'll find the classic references to, Well this guy was a Catholic and did this, and this Baptist was cheating on his wife and on and on.

With all of those statements one focuses on A. a person (Not Jesus), and B. A religion.
The cheating Baptist, the homosexual priest, the congregation that mistreated you. All tools and snares of Satan. As long as one is bitter he is controlled and blinded. That is as far as he ever gets. And if Satan can keep that going until the drunk driver takes you out at 3PM, then he has you. No redemption after death. You don't know Jesus...and just hearing about him is not good Then you die and go to hell forever.

So of course the Devil is going to keep as many folks trapped in feelings that suggest "religion is a huge lie. And there is a good reason people think that. It IS! Yep, organized religion like Islam kills people every day. Christians killed countless thousands over the centuries. The Catholic church employs some satanic symbols. Baptist evangelists are almost routinely caught up in stealing, drugs, or affairs. Religion is mostly hypocritical when one examines and sifts through the parishioners.

However look a bit further and one might see good Godly people in almost any faith. Jesus did not like religion. The religion he was born into, the Jews had him horribly put to death. Nope, He nor his father focus not on religions, however on the individual. The relationship you actually share with your God (if you have one) is all that matters. Religions do provide some structure. Priests, Pastors and the like, and nice churches to gather in, and networks of like minded people, and support in times of need and stuff like that.

So point is go where you will, it's your life. But regardless of what any of us think, say or do, the word...God's word in the bible does not change. And the word was God...
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Online TexasRedNeck

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Re: Shall WE support the County Clerk in Kentucky?
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2015, 04:11:35 PM »
I've stayed away from this for a few days but want to opine.  I'm old enough now that I don't really care who gets offended.

Not all who profess the name of Christ are Christians, period.

This includes many ( I dare say a majority) of mainstream religious institutions who butt diddle little boys, manipulate weak minded people and collect money for their own personal gain.

For even the demons believe, and shudder

Judge not lest ye be judged is about how we should not be judgmental of non believers, for but for the grace of God go I.

We are are to judge those within the assembly and exclude those who live in sin.  We all fall short, but Christians do not wallow in sin.  So called "churches" today are little more than goat barns with feel good seminars who do not teach true doctrine for fear of running off people who send their money.  Real churches exercise discipline of members.

We are called to be subject to the laws of man, up to and until they contradict the laws of God. 

Remember, God changeth not.  End of story.

Thinking the message has to be transformed to appeal to today's people is heresy. Speak the truth.  The word and the pastor do not change the heart of man, only the work of the Holy Spirit in regeneration can change the heart of a dead sinner.

All sin is an abomination to the Lord and we are to condemn all of it, not just homosexuals, but fornicators, slanderers, idolators, etc.

We are to hate those that hate God with a perfect hate. (this is not to be confused with the Muslim idea of killing unbelievers, but a holy hate and loathing for sin)  Love one another is for fellow Christians.

This country may have been founded on Judeo-Christian prinicples, but we have long since left that in our rear view mirror as a country.

Our government is actively driving Christian principles from our form of government.   

The reason to support this person is not because she's espousing Christian beliefs (she could and probably should resign because of her beliefs) but because the government (system) needs to be taught a lesson that founding principles cannot be selectively applied in favor of Muslims, homosexuals and everyone other than Christians.  If we can't force the little Muslim women to remove their burka for the DMV photo in order to obtain driving privileges out of fear of offending their religion, the government should not force a woman against her religious convictions, and the sovereign will of the great State of Kentucky, to issue a license to homosexuals against her religious conviction.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2015, 04:14:14 PM by TexasRedNeck »
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Offline Bob/OlallaWa

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Re: Shall WE support the County Clerk in Kentucky?
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2015, 08:09:52 PM »
Thanks for jumping in on this. Enjoyed the read and feel the same.

Offline Flyin6

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Re: Shall WE support the County Clerk in Kentucky?
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2015, 09:15:32 PM »
Yep RN, all true
I'm glad this thread popped up. Good to get folks to think about where they stand on all this
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Online JR

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Re: Shall WE support the County Clerk in Kentucky?
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2015, 02:15:36 AM »
Still waiting to see what comes next. She goes back to work under order not to interfere, but will she?
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Offline Atkinsmatt

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Re: Shall WE support the County Clerk in Kentucky?
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2015, 10:07:35 AM »
I have thought a lot about this and find that I support what she is doing for the same reasons as TRN mentioned.  We only know the (facts) that have come out in the media, not necessarily all of the facts or the truth.  This woman was not elected to a federal position but a local one and swore to uphold the laws of the state and locality.  I am not positive but think that in Kentucky, the laws says marriage is between a man and a woman.  Activist Federal Judges making law instead of reading and applying the meaning of it according to the constitution didn't change the law in Kentucky.  I think that she is following her oath.  Written law needs to be applied fairly, not selectively.

God doesn't change and wrong is wrong.  We are called to obey the law and follow leaders until there is conflict with the Word of God.  We must each think for ourselves and determine our course of action.  The time is coming for civil disobedience, which is what she is doing.  We each experience different things in our lives.  As we pray and seek God's will, we must determine what actions he wants us to take and execute.  We can't save anyone.  Our task is to be obedient to Him and tell people about Jesus.  You can't argue anyone into heaven.  They must accept or reject Him on their own.  They will be judged by God as will you.  Each according to the decision that you make to accept or reject Jesus.

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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Shall WE support the County Clerk in Kentucky?
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2015, 05:06:08 PM »
I have thought a lot about this and find that I support what she is doing for the same reasons as TRN mentioned.  We only know the (facts) that have come out in the media, not necessarily all of the facts or the truth.  This woman was not elected to a federal position but a local one and swore to uphold the laws of the state and locality.  I am not positive but think that in Kentucky, the laws says marriage is between a man and a woman.  Activist Federal Judges making law instead of reading and applying the meaning of it according to the constitution didn't change the law in Kentucky.  I think that she is following her oath.  Written law needs to be applied fairly, not selectively.

God doesn't change and wrong is wrong.  We are called to obey the law and follow leaders until there is conflict with the Word of God.  We must each think for ourselves and determine our course of action.  The time is coming for civil disobedience, which is what she is doing.  We each experience different things in our lives.  As we pray and seek God's will, we must determine what actions he wants us to take and execute.  We can't save anyone.  Our task is to be obedient to Him and tell people about Jesus.  You can't argue anyone into heaven.  They must accept or reject Him on their own.  They will be judged by God as will you.  Each according to the decision that you make to accept or reject Jesus.


You are correct Matt
Kentucky law, our constitution states "Between a man and a woman"

Note: To Matt's commentary. He is correct about what we should do.

For non believers, know that there is only one sin which will not be forgiven by God

And that is

Not accepting his son as your Lord and Savior.

The ONLY way out of hell is to go to heaven

The only way to get to heaven is through the forgiveness of your sins

The only way your sins can be forgiven...The only way

Is to accept that Jesus died to pay with his life for your sin. Either accept Jesus as your one true lord and savior, or someday die then go to hell.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2015, 05:10:57 PM by Flyin6 »
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