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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Reloading for Bear
« on: March 06, 2016, 09:09:06 AM »
Bear, you asked about some loads with 165 grain bullets from Hornady and Sierra.  I also took the liberty of offering a suggestion which is 175 Berger VLD hunting.  All with Varget


FIRST: FOR ANY INTERNET DUMMIES.  DO NOT USE THESE TO LOAD FROM. YOU MUST START AT LOWER LEVELS AND WORK YOU WAY UP TO ANY LOAD, LOOKING FOR SIGNS OF PRESSURE.  USE THESE AT YOUR OWN RISK

First is the Sierra stk#2145 165 Spitzer
« Last Edit: March 06, 2016, 10:05:57 AM by TexasRedNeck »
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Joshua 6:20-24

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Reloading for Bear
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2016, 09:40:13 AM »
HP Boat tail 165 Sierra stk# 2140
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Reloading for Bear
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2016, 09:45:23 AM »
Hornady 165 Spire Point Stk# 3045
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Reloading for Bear
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2016, 09:47:04 AM »
« Last Edit: March 06, 2016, 10:12:11 AM by TexasRedNeck »
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Reloading for Bear
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2016, 10:03:07 AM »
Energy and wind tables for the Hornady 165 and the 175 VLD
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Reloading for Bear
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2016, 10:07:27 AM »
So you can see as you get further out the heavier bullets are better.  You maintain velocity and energy and about 10 inches less impact from the wind at full value 10mph.

These all assume a 1:11 twist 26 inch barrel

The difference becomes more pronounced with the 185gn VLD.

So you have some good options for shorter distances but if you want to load one round for everything all the way to 800+ I would suggest a heavier round like the 175 or 185.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2016, 10:16:41 AM by TexasRedNeck »
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Offline CHEVSILVER1500

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Re: Reloading for Bear
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2016, 06:49:17 AM »
Going to second the recommendation for the bergers. Have not used them in the .308 but I'm using the 140gr VLD Hunting loaded over H4350 in my 6.5 creedmoor and have been impressed so far. Have tried 139gr Lapua Scenars, 129gr hornady SSt's, and the bergers. The bergers have outshined the others significantly. I can get the outer edges of shots to touch with the scenars but with the bergers it's hard to distinguish between shots without being right at the target. I'm talking 1/8 to 1/4 max center to center and have seen 1/16 on occasion. Measured with calipers as best as possible. Going to give them a try on the .308 when I get time

Offline Bear9350

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Re: Reloading for Bear
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2016, 08:43:41 AM »
Thanks for running these.  I knew the 175 and 185 would look a lot better further out but I doubt I will be ready to shoot that far for a while. I have a couple spots were I can reach out to 600 available.  I would need to make a special trip to get out to 800 and I'm not even sure where I could find a 1000 right now.  I picked up the 165 gr Hornady Spire Points last night and will start with those I think.

Offline BobbyB

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Re: Reloading for Bear
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2016, 09:21:25 AM »
I would need to make a special trip to get out to 800 and I'm not even sure where I could find a 1000 right now. 

Lodi apparently has the 1000 yd range.
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!

Offline Bear9350

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Re: Reloading for Bear
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2016, 10:08:50 AM »
I would need to make a special trip to get out to 800 and I'm not even sure where I could find a 1000 right now. 

Lodi apparently has the 1000 yd range.

Good to know.  I have 600 yards of the back porch of the house and at the hunting shack.  We also have a couple spots around the farm where I am sure I could get up to 800 yards.  We do have a couple 40 acre fields that we remove the fence lines on.  Straight across would be 800 yards about so I might be able to find one where I could safely shoot 1000 from corner to corner or something.  Not sure.

Offline BobbyB

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Re: Reloading for Bear
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2016, 11:57:04 AM »
Good to know.  I have 600 yards of the back porch of the house and at the hunting shack.  We also have a couple spots around the farm where I am sure I could get up to 800 yards.  We do have a couple 40 acre fields that we remove the fence lines on.  Straight across would be 800 yards about so I might be able to find one where I could safely shoot 1000 from corner to corner or something.  Not sure.

Nice. Only reason I heard about Lodi is apparently they do a 1000 yd shooting match down there. But haven't heard when it is or really anything about it.
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!

Offline Bear9350

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Re: Reloading for Bear
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2016, 03:15:29 PM »

Nice. Only reason I heard about Lodi is apparently they do a 1000 yd shooting match down there. But haven't heard when it is or really anything about it.

Looks like they have a 1200 yard range.

Offline BobbyB

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Re: Reloading for Bear
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2016, 02:23:13 AM »
Looks like they have a 1200 yard range.

Even more fun.
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!

Offline JR

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Re: Reloading for Bear
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2016, 01:36:12 AM »
Dang Bear, thought your were close for a minute. Lodi Ca is just south of me, Lodi Wi is a tad farther east.
Retired LEO  Lifetime NRA+  Outcast in Calif

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Offline Bear9350

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Re: Reloading for Bear
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2016, 08:01:28 AM »
Dang Bear, thought your were close for a minute. Lodi Ca is just south of me, Lodi Wi is a tad farther east.

Just a mountain range and a couple thousand miles of cornfield between us.  I'm actually just about an hour south of Bobby I think.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 08:03:34 AM by Bear9350 »

Offline Bear9350

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Re: Reloading for Bear
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2017, 07:55:28 AM »
RN, when you have time could you run a new load for me.

44.5 gr Varget and 175 gr SMK seated to OAL of 2.81

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Reloading for Bear
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2017, 09:13:35 AM »
Will do when I get back. Can you give me:  barrel length and twist and height above bore on the scope? 


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Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Offline Bear9350

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Re: Reloading for Bear
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2017, 11:02:37 AM »
26" barrel, 1:12 twist.  Measured about 2" from center of bore to center of scope.

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Reloading for Bear
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2017, 07:57:44 AM »
Cartridge          : .308 Win. (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .308, 175, Sierra HPBT MatchK 2275
Useable Case Capaci: 47.999 grain H2O = 3.116 cm?
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.810 inch = 71.37 mm
Barrel Length      : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder             : Hodgdon VARGET

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20.0   83    35.60   2224    1923   31987   5450     92.8    1.600
-18.0   85    36.49   2275    2011   34063   5602     93.8    1.560
-16.0   87    37.38   2325    2101   36272   5750     94.7    1.522
-14.0   89    38.27   2376    2193   38622   5892     95.5    1.483
-12.0   92    39.16   2426    2287   41116   6028     96.3    1.441
-10.0   94    40.05   2476    2382   43750   6157     97.0    1.402
-08.0   96    40.94   2526    2479   46542   6279     97.6    1.364
-06.0   98    41.83   2576    2578   49516   6393     98.1    1.327
-04.0  100    42.72   2625    2678   52685   6500     98.6    1.293
-02.0  102    43.61   2674    2779   56065   6598     99.0    1.258  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  104    44.50   2723    2882   59671   6688     99.4    1.226  ! Near Maximum !
+02.0  106    45.39   2772    2986   63523   6768     99.6    1.194  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  108    46.28   2820    3091   67641   6839     99.8    1.164  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0  110    47.17   2869    3197   72050   6900     99.9    1.134  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0  112    48.06   2916    3305   76774   6951    100.0    1.106  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0  114    48.95   2964    3414   81845   6994    100.0    1.078  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ? 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    104    44.50   2821    3093   70067   6458    100.0    1.152  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    104    44.50   2585    2596   49483   6641     95.2    1.323
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

Joshua 6:20-24

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Reloading for Bear
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2017, 08:06:54 AM »
 Tabular trajectory data at Non-Std. Atmosphere
 Gunsite Altitude : 0 ft.
 Air Density      : 0.078896 lb./ft?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Gun / Ammunition : , .308 Win. (SAAMI)
 Bullet Type      : .308, 175, Sierra HPBT MatchK 2275
 Bullet Weight    : 175 grains or 11.34 Grams
 Muzzle Velocity  : 2723 fps
 Twist Length     : 11.0 in.  (RH)
 Gyro.  Stability : 4.52
 Crosswind Speed  : 10.0 Mph
 Ballistic Coefficient(s) (G1) :
 C1_1=0.496@V>2800 fps;
 C1_2=0.487@V>1800 fps;
 C1_3=0.477@V>0 fps;


 Optimum trajectory information :
 Optimum sight-in range (X) = 192 Yds.
 with max. ordinate above LOS at range (M)= 117 Yds.
 and max. point blank range (P)= 221 Yds.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Sight-in clicks, 1 click = 4.0 cm/100 m or 1.575 in/100 m
 Height of sight above bore axis = 5.001 cm or 1.969 inch
 Gun is zeroed-in at 100 yds,
 by sighting-in at level firing
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Range  Velo Time of  Energy   Path   Spin / Wind-  Total  Sight correction  Target
        city  flight            to     dage, Wind    drop   for setting new   lead
                                LOS    of 10.0 Mph             zero range     33 fps
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
?Yards   fps     s    ft.lbs.   in.    in.     MOA     in.   Clicks     MOA     yds ?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|    0  2723  0.0000   2881    -2.0    0.0   -----     0.0   ------    -----    0.00
M   89  2554  0.1015   2535    +0.1   -0.5   -0.53     1.9      0.0    -0.04    1.11
X  100  2534  0.1144   2494     0.0   -0.6   -0.58     2.5      0.0     0.00    1.25
P  166  2413  0.1938   2262    -1.5   -1.6   -0.90     7.0     +0.7    +0.90    2.12
|  200  2352  0.2366   2150    -3.3   -2.3   -1.12    10.3     +1.2    +1.62    2.59
|  300  2178  0.3697   1844   -13.1   -5.7   -1.83    24.5     +3.1    +4.20    4.04
|  400  2011  0.5126   1572   -30.1  -10.6   -2.52    46.0     +5.2    +7.21    5.61
|  500  1852  0.6668   1333   -55.5  -17.0   -3.25    75.8     +7.7   +10.61    7.29
|  600  1701  0.8378   1124   -91.8  -25.9   -4.13   116.6    +10.6   +14.63    9.16
|  700  1558  1.0229    943  -140.1  -36.8   -5.03   169.3    +13.9   +19.13   11.19
|  800  1426  1.2224    791  -202.0  -49.7   -5.93   235.7    +17.5   +24.13   13.37
|  900  1310  1.4429    667  -282.6  -65.4   -6.94   320.7    +21.8   +30.00   15.78
| 1000  1209  1.6810    568  -383.5  -83.5   -7.97   426.1    +26.6   +36.64   18.38
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
M = Peak vs. L.O.S, X = Set Zero, P = Max. Point Blank Range
Elevation above Angle of Site (0.0 deg.)  = 0.0706 deg.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 08:25:13 AM by TexasRedNeck »
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Reloading for Bear
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2017, 08:07:31 AM »
  Tabular trajectory data at Non-Std. Atmosphere
 Gunsite Altitude : 0 ft.
 Air Density      : 0.078896 lb./ft?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Gun / Ammunition : , .308 Win. (SAAMI)
 Bullet Type      : .308, 175, Sierra HPBT MatchK 2275
 Bullet Weight    : 175 grains or 11.34 Grams
 Muzzle Velocity  : 2723 fps
 Twist Length     : 11.0 in.  (RH)
 Gyro.  Stability : 4.52
 Crosswind Speed  : 10.0 Mph
 Correction Factor of Elevation (MOA/Click): 1.375
 Ballistic Coefficient(s) (G1) :
 C1_1=0.496@V>2800 fps;
 C1_2=0.487@V>1800 fps;
 C1_3=0.477@V>0 fps;


 Table of Various Zero Ranges - New Zero-in Correction Values in Sight Adjustment Clicks
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Range              100 yd.  200 yd.  300 yd.  400 yd.  500 yd.  600 yd.  700 yd.  800 yd.  900 yd. 1000 yd.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 100 yd. Zero           X       +1.2     +3.1     +5.2     +7.7    +10.6    +13.9    +17.5    +21.8    +26.6   
 200 yd. Zero          -1.2      X       +1.9     +4.1     +6.5     +9.5    +12.7    +16.4    +20.6    +25.5   
 300 yd. Zero          -3.1     -1.9      X       +2.2     +4.7     +7.6    +10.9    +14.5    +18.8    +23.6   
 400 yd. Zero          -5.2     -4.1     -2.2      X       +2.5     +5.4     +8.7    +12.3    +16.6    +21.4   
 500 yd. Zero          -7.7     -6.5     -4.7     -2.5      X       +2.9     +6.2     +9.8    +14.1    +18.9   
 600 yd. Zero         -10.6     -9.5     -7.6     -5.4     -2.9      X       +3.3     +6.9    +11.2    +16.0   
 700 yd. Zero         -13.9    -12.7    -10.9     -8.7     -6.2     -3.3      X       +3.6     +7.9    +12.7   
 800 yd. Zero         -17.5    -16.4    -14.5    -12.3     -9.8     -6.9     -3.6      X       +4.3     +9.1   
 900 yd. Zero         -21.8    -20.6    -18.8    -16.6    -14.1    -11.2     -7.9     -4.3      X       +4.8   
1000 yd. Zero         -26.6    -25.5    -23.6    -21.4    -18.9    -16.0    -12.7     -9.1     -4.8      X     
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 192 yd. PB Zero       -1.0     +0.1     +2.0     +4.2     +6.7     +9.6    +12.9    +16.5    +20.8    +25.6   
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Velocity       fps.  2533.7   2352.1   2178.2   2011.4   1852.0   1701.0   1558.3   1426.4   1310.2   1208.9   
Energy      ft.lbs.  2494.4   2149.6   1843.5   1572.0   1332.7   1124.2    943.5    790.5    667.0    567.9   
Deflection      in.    -0.6     -2.3     -5.7    -10.6    -17.0    -25.9    -36.8    -49.7    -65.4    -83.5   
Correction  MOA/mph  -0.058   -0.112   -0.183   -0.252   -0.325   -0.413   -0.503   -0.593   -0.694   -0.797   
Time            sec   0.114    0.237    0.370    0.513    0.667    0.838    1.023    1.222    1.443    1.681   
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 08:22:37 AM by TexasRedNeck »
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

Joshua 6:20-24

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Reloading for Bear
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2017, 08:26:18 AM »
Tabular trajectory data at Non-Std. Atmosphere
 Gunsite Altitude : 0 ft.
 Air Density      : 0.078896 lb./ft?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Gun / Ammunition : , .308 Win. (SAAMI)
 Bullet Type      : .308, 175, Sierra HPBT MatchK 2275
 Bullet Weight    : 175 grains or 11.34 Grams
 Muzzle Velocity  : 2723 fps
 Twist Length     : 11.0 in.  (RH)
 Gyro.  Stability : 4.52
 Crosswind Speed  : 10.0 Mph
 Ballistic Coefficient(s) (G1) :
 C1_1=0.496@V>2800 fps;
 C1_2=0.487@V>1800 fps;
 C1_3=0.477@V>0 fps;


 Table of Various Zero Ranges - Trajectory Path to LOS in inches
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Range              100 yd.  200 yd.  300 yd.  400 yd.  500 yd.  600 yd.  700 yd.  800 yd.  900 yd. 1000 yd.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 100 yd. Zero           X       -3.4    -13.2    -30.2    -55.6    -91.9   -140.2   -202.2   -282.8   -383.7   
 200 yd. Zero          +1.7      X       -8.1    -23.4    -47.1    -81.7   -128.3   -188.6   -267.5   -366.8   
 300 yd. Zero          +4.4     +5.4      X      -12.6    -33.6    -65.5   -109.4   -167.0   -243.2   -339.8   
 400 yd. Zero          +7.5    +11.7     +9.5      X      -17.8    -46.6    -87.4   -141.8   -214.8   -308.2   
 500 yd. Zero         +11.1    +18.8    +20.2    +14.3      X      -25.2    -62.4   -113.2   -182.7   -272.6   
 600 yd. Zero         +15.3    +27.2    +32.8    +31.1    +21.0      X      -33.0    -79.6   -144.9   -230.5   
 700 yd. Zero         +20.0    +36.7    +46.9    +49.9    +44.6    +28.3      X      -41.9   -102.5   -183.4   
 800 yd. Zero         +25.3    +47.1    +62.6    +70.9    +70.8    +59.7    +36.7      X      -55.3   -131.0   
 900 yd. Zero         +31.4    +59.4    +81.1    +95.5   +101.5    +96.6    +79.7    +49.2      X      -69.5   
1000 yd. Zero         +38.4    +73.4   +101.9   +123.3   +136.3   +138.3   +128.4   +104.8    +62.6      X     
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 192 yd. PB Zero       +1.5     -0.4     -8.7    -24.2    -48.0    -82.9   -129.6   -190.1   -269.2   -368.6   
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Velocity       fps.  2533.7   2352.1   2178.2   2011.4   1852.0   1701.0   1558.3   1426.4   1310.2   1208.9   
Energy      ft.lbs.  2494.4   2149.6   1843.5   1572.0   1332.7   1124.2    943.5    790.5    667.0    567.9   
Deflection      in.    -0.6     -2.3     -5.7    -10.6    -17.0    -25.9    -36.8    -49.7    -65.4    -83.5   
Correction  MOA/mph  -0.058   -0.112   -0.183   -0.252   -0.325   -0.413   -0.503   -0.593   -0.694   -0.797   
Time            sec   0.114    0.237    0.370    0.513    0.667    0.838    1.023    1.222    1.443    1.681   
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

Joshua 6:20-24

Offline Bear9350

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Re: Reloading for Bear
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2018, 09:37:14 AM »
RN, could you run a load for me for the new stick when you have time.

6.5 CM
26" barrel
1:8 twist
scope is mounted 1.5" above bore line

Hornady 6.5 CM brass
140 grain Hornady ELD-M bullet
40.5 grains H4350 powder

And the 5 shot group I put down with this load during load development Friday.



« Last Edit: June 11, 2018, 09:38:09 AM by Bear9350 »

Offline cudakidd53

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Re: Reloading for Bear
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2018, 09:51:18 AM »
Impressive group there Bear!  100yrds?
2012 Silverado LTZ - Duramax
Christian since 1975 - Field Trial Brittanys - NRA Lifetime Member

"When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. Hence, dealing with this fact is not difficult. It is only hard for those still living around you.....It's the same when you're stupid."

Offline Bear9350

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Re: Reloading for Bear
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2018, 10:10:02 AM »
Yep, 100 yards.  This gun will regularly shoot 1/4 MOA groups with the Hornady American Gunner factory ammo I had been buying. Friday was the first time I shot any of my own loads through this gun.

Offline JR

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Re: Reloading for Bear
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2018, 12:20:11 PM »
Nice, what range for zero?
Retired LEO  Lifetime NRA+  Outcast in Calif

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Offline Bear9350

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Re: Reloading for Bear
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2018, 12:56:23 PM »
I zero at 100.  I didn't adjust my zero during this load work up as I still have some of the factory stuff to shoot through.