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Offline Bear9350

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Bolt Action or AR-10
« on: September 18, 2017, 02:31:20 PM »
I had been planning on doing a custom rifle after selling the 308 and recouping some funds to go towards the build.  Originally I was planning either a blue printed Rem700 stainless action or a custom action with a Bartlien barrel in 6.5 Creedmore.  I figured I could re-use the stock, detachable bottom metal, and trigger that I pulled off the 308 before selling.  Even with re-using all the above I will still have close to 2 grand into it after barrel fitting if I decided to go the custom action and barrel route.  That is when I started wondering what it would take to build/ put together an accurate AR-10.

If I would go the AR-10 route I would still plan on 6.5 Creedmore.  But, at this point that is about all I know.  I haven't had a lot of time to really search and see what would be needed for an accurate AR-10 build.  Excluding glass and rings is it possible to do this build for close to 2 grand? 


Offline BobbyB

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Re: Bolt Action or AR-10
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2017, 03:00:22 PM »
is it possible to do this build for close to 2 grand?

Yes, but it'll take time to find parts you like and are of qood (or better quality). Unless there's an absolute rush for a pre-determined deadline.

Are you talking GAP level precision or < $2,xxx?

Or are you talking precision for the area that you live in with an outside engagement range of 800m punching paper or steel targets?
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!

Offline Bear9350

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Re: Bolt Action or AR-10
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2017, 03:48:45 PM »
700 maybe 800 yards would be stretching it for where I have available to shoot.  Sub MOA groups, preferably closer to 1/2.  I have a good idea of what would be required to get what I want in a bolt gun.  Just no idea about an AR.  No real rush here.

I was at my brothers Sat talking to him about his Howa HCR.  There is a fence line north of his house about 600 yards out.  We are thinking about hanging some steel targets in.  Should be able to climb into the hay mow and shoot over the top of the corn.

Offline Bear9350

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Re: Bolt Action or AR-10
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2017, 10:37:40 PM »
Any thoughts on this?  I am completely out of my element with AR style guns.

https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearms/mp-10-65-creedmoor

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Bolt Action or AR-10
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2017, 11:51:51 PM »
problem with semi auto weapons is repeat ability which is why the barrel, barrel extension and bolt group are the keys to accuracy.

I don't want to pretend to tell you how to spend your money but if you are unhappy with your bolt gun and looking at 2k ARs, I would hold your powder a bit longer and hold out for a GAP-10. With an 8 month lead time you'll have time to save up money......

At that point you have the penultimate AR and the faiure to engage a target successfully can only be blamed on the loose nut behind the wheel.....
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Offline BobbyB

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Re: Bolt Action or AR-10
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2017, 06:35:21 AM »
problem with semi auto weapons is repeat ability which is why the barrel, barrel extension and bolt group are the keys to accuracy.

I don't want to pretend to tell you how to spend your money but if you are unhappy with your bolt gun and looking at 2k ARs, I would hold your powder a bit longer and hold out for a GAP-10. With an 8 month lead time you'll have time to save up money......

At that point you have the penultimate AR and the faiure to engage a target successfully can only be blamed on the loose nut behind the wheel.....

This. If you can wait it out that'd be a good idea.
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!

Offline Bear9350

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Re: Bolt Action or AR-10
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2017, 07:44:14 AM »
That is the type of info I am looking for here.  What do I need to get a 1/2 moa AR.  If the min is the GAP 10 then so be it.  Currently I am thinking I will stay the bolt route.  Then in the future might do an AR-15 build in 6.5 Grendal to get my feet wet in the AR world.

Offline BobbyB

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Re: Bolt Action or AR-10
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2017, 08:00:55 AM »
That is the type of info I am looking for here.  What do I need to get a 1/2 moa AR.  If the min is the GAP 10 then so be it.  Currently I am thinking I will stay the bolt route.  Then in the future might do an AR-15 build in 6.5 Grendal to get my feet wet in the AR world.

Brownells has, on occasion, Defiant and Surgeon actions for sale. Granted that'd be about close to your budget but you get the action, save up get the barrel and repeat until all parts are collected. But here's just a quick grab of some things I saw.


Defiance Machine:
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-parts/receivers/rifle-receivers/deviant-tactical-short-actioni-receiver-prod61230.aspx

Stock 700 SA:
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-parts/receivers/rifle-receivers/standard-700-sa-receiver-blued-prod75065.aspx

AR10:
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-parts/receivers/lower-receivers/308-ar-stripped-upper-lower-receiver-sets-prod54513.aspx
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!

Offline Bear9350

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Re: Bolt Action or AR-10
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2017, 08:18:20 AM »
The last step I have is figuring out which direction I want to go with the action.  I've narrowed it down to 3 directions. 

1st- Factory R700 Stainless action.  I would have some extra expense to have the smith clean it up.  $400 for the action,  plus some for smith work

2nd- PTG blue printed R700 Stainless action with there 1 pc bolt.  This option already has the work done plus would have a 1 pc bolt fitted to it.  The bolt has some upgraded parts like M16 mini extractor also.  This option will cost about $700.

3rd- Deviant Rebel or Tactical custom action.  Bobby, you linked to the Tactical at Brownells. Both of these are stainless again.  The biggest difference between the 2 is the Tactical has an integrated rail and recoil lug.  The Rebel does not have an integrated rail but can be purchased with a rail which is pinned and screwed on.  Both of these also have a side bolt release.  These options also have a one piece bolt with M16 style extractor.  A recoil lug would need to be purchased and added to the first 2 options.  The Rebel can be had for $1200 with the rail while the Tactical is $1330.  Both are currently in stock at bugholes.com.



Offline Bear9350

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Re: Bolt Action or AR-10
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2017, 08:21:32 AM »
I guess there is a 4th option also in the mix.  The Stiller Tac 30.  S.S. action.  This action would need a recoil lug but does include a rail for $1050.  I have read some reports of there QC getting sloppy as of late and the smith needing to do a bit of clean up work.

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Bolt Action or AR-10
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2017, 11:18:25 AM »
This is the guy who built my GAP remy 700. He's on his own now. I'd give him a call and talk to him about your budget and desires. He's a straight up guy and will steer you right.
http://www.crescentcustoms.com

I'd trust advice from a guy who built 100s of rifles over my desire to bankrupt you with a "living vicariously through you build. "

Moon doesn't build ARs but if you want to talk bolts that's the guy I'd use.

Man all this talk has me wanting  to get started on my 300WSM hunting rifle build.....



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Offline Bear9350

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Re: Bolt Action or AR-10
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2017, 11:43:56 AM »
I just took a look at his website and will probably give him a call.  I also plan to call up Bartlien and talk to them again.  I had a brief starter conversation with someone there a couple weeks ago.  Now that I have a few more details firmed up and the 308 sold it is time to start spending some money. 

My first thought is to have Bartlien make the barrel and then have them do the barrel fitting.  I figure if they are making world class barrels that the majority of the top PRS shooters are using and they are offering barrel fitting I would expect that to be world class also.  They are about a 30 minute drive from my front door step which would be nice.  I would be able to just drive there and drop off the action and then pick everything up later.

Offline KensAuto

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Re: Bolt Action or AR-10
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2017, 06:21:41 PM »
I'll throw my .02 in. I know you guys like built rifles, with good reason, but there are some out-of-the-box accurate rifles out there. Try not to cringe because of the brand, but this a great gun for the price. It would give you plenty of leftover for nice glass, or upgrades if needed.

http://tritacdefense.com/store/p55/Savage_10T_6.5_Creedmoor_Bull_Barrel_Cabelas.html
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Bolt Action or AR-10
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2017, 06:45:51 PM »
I'll throw my .02 in. I know you guys like built rifles, with good reason, but there are some out-of-the-box accurate rifles out there. Try not to cringe because of the brand, but this a great gun for the price. It would give you plenty of leftover for nice glass, or upgrades if needed.

http://tritacdefense.com/store/p55/Savage_10T_6.5_Creedmoor_Bull_Barrel_Cabelas.html
I once shot a Savage in .222 which was very accurate, but the .222 was lacking, so I didn't shoot it much past 200 M
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Offline cudakidd53

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Re: Bolt Action or AR-10
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2017, 06:54:33 PM »
My two cents is that assembly of parts over time is much easier to accomplish without drawing unnecessary attention from HH6 and resulting in a perceived cost around 8% of total expenses......Johnny Cash baby!  :grin:
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: Bolt Action or AR-10
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2017, 07:03:58 PM »
I wouldn't know anything about that Mike^^.   :embarrassed:
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Offline Bear9350

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Re: Bolt Action or AR-10
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2017, 08:05:29 AM »
Savages are known to be accurate.  But they have other issues.  The one I have has a failure to eject atleast once every 5 rounds.  If I were to go with a factory gun I would look at a Howa 1500.  Something like this would be in that price range and in my opinion a much better factory gun:

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/mobile/product/719018161/lsi_howa_65_creedmoor

Or for about twice as much the Howa HCR is probably the most gun you can get for under a grand.  Nothing really needs to be replaced on this gun.  The factory trigger is decent and the stock/ chassis is good enough.  This is the gun I bough my brother a few months back and it is definitely a shooter.  I was able to clover leaf some fairly cheap ammo at 100 yards after just a couple patches being pushed through the barrel:

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/mobile/product/21017/redirect

I just sold a Remington that I had replaced enough parts on that it should have been shooting better than it was.  The next step would be replacing the barrel and getting the action trued up while at it.  It no longer made since to continue sticking money into it.  My goal here is to start with the finished product.  Something I know will shoot good and I won't have to chase it and start swapping parts to get it.  The HCR could probably do this for me.  It would be ok, but still not as nice as a custom barrel.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 11:08:08 AM by Bear9350 »

Offline Bear9350

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Re: Bolt Action or AR-10
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2017, 08:12:11 AM »
This is the guy who built my GAP remy 700. He's on his own now. I'd give him a call and talk to him about your budget and desires. He's a straight up guy and will steer you right.
http://www.crescentcustoms.com

I'd trust advice from a guy who built 100s of rifles over my desire to bankrupt you with a "living vicariously through you build. "


I talked with Moon yesterday.  Got some good advice from him.  Still not sure which direction I am going to go.  Basically everything I was considering he thought was good or good enough.  He also threw a couple other options in there I had previously tossed out.  I was mainly concentrating on stainless actions and tossing out CM.  He said he prefers CM for the action as stainless can have some galling issues.  But stainless would be ok too.

The man has quite the back log though.  11-12 months out he thought.

Offline Bear9350

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Re: Bolt Action or AR-10
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2017, 08:18:02 AM »
My two cents is that assembly of parts over time is much easier to accomplish without drawing unnecessary attention from HH6 and resulting in a perceived cost around 8% of total expenses......Johnny Cash baby!  :grin:

The wife and I openly discuss our finances with each other.  No secrets.  Any purchase that gets into triple digits is usually discussed ahead of time in some manner.

Offline KensAuto

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Re: Bolt Action or AR-10
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2017, 10:24:25 AM »
Those links didn't work for me bear, but I agree, the Howa has a decent rep. The reason I am personally fond of the savage is their bull barrels.
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Offline Bear9350

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Re: Bolt Action or AR-10
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2017, 11:07:43 AM »
Those links didn't work for me bear, but I agree, the Howa has a decent rep. The reason I am personally fond of the savage is their bull barrels.

I think the links should be fixed now.

Offline KensAuto

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Re: Bolt Action or AR-10
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2017, 02:26:46 PM »

I think the links should be fixed now.

Nice, especially the second one.
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Offline Bear9350

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Re: Bolt Action or AR-10
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2017, 02:33:31 PM »
Nice, especially the second one.

It' a nice package.  My brother was showing me some 4" groups he was shooting at 500 yards.  That is with off the shelf ammo and really no training/ experiance etc.. in how to shoot.

Offline Bear9350

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Re: Bolt Action or AR-10
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2017, 10:16:05 AM »
Nearly ready to get the ball rolling on a barreled action for Travis at T.C. Customs. 

Lone Peak Arms Fuzion action
Benchmark barrel in 6.5 CM

The barrel will be threaded for a Lone Peak Arms muzzle brake.  It is a self timing brake.  The action will come with a nitride finish and I will have a black cerakote applied to the barrel.

I plan to re-use the stock, bottom metal and trigger I have for now.  At a later date I will probable upgrade the stock to a better stock or possible a chassis system.

Offline BobbyB

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Re: Bolt Action or AR-10
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2017, 10:24:00 AM »
Nearly ready to get the ball rolling on a barreled action for Travis at T.C. Customs. 

Lone Peak Arms Fuzion action
Benchmark barrel in 6.5 CM

The barrel will be threaded for a Lone Peak Arms muzzle brake.  It is a self timing brake.  The action will come with a nitride finish and I will have a black cerakote applied to the barrel.

I plan to re-use the stock, bottom metal and trigger I have for now.  At a later date I will probable upgrade the stock to a better stock or possible a chassis system.

You could probably sell the parts you plan to reuse and be close to purchasing a chassis system.
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!

Offline Bear9350

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Re: Bolt Action or AR-10
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2017, 10:27:20 AM »
I'm just not sure what I want yet.  Thinking I will spend a little more time shooting my brothers gun that is in a chassis and see if I like it or not.

Offline BobbyB

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Re: Bolt Action or AR-10
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2017, 11:07:26 AM »
I'm just not sure what I want yet.  Thinking I will spend a little more time shooting my brothers gun that is in a chassis and see if I like it or not.

I think you'll be good with the stock you bought, it looked like a quality purchase. I'd run it for awhile, and later on swap if you still desire.
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!

Offline Bear9350

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Re: Bolt Action or AR-10
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2017, 01:16:02 PM »
My only concern is how the new barrel contour is going to fit into the stock.  I think it is going to be tight.

Offline BobbyB

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Re: Bolt Action or AR-10
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2017, 09:56:10 PM »
My only concern is how the new barrel contour is going to fit into the stock.  I think it is going to be tight.

Sent you a PM.
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!

Offline Bear9350

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Re: Bolt Action or AR-10
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2017, 11:49:01 AM »
Update.  I ordered a barreled action in 6.5 Creedmore from Travis Stevens of TS Customs.  This included:

Lone Peak Arms Fuzion Action
Stainless Bench Mark barrel with Medium Palma Contour
Lone Pear Arms Muzzle Brake
Black Cerakote on the barrel (action was already finished black)

Lead time was estimated 4-8 weeks to complete.

I picked up the barreled action last week from the local hardware store.  I dropped installed the Timney trigger I pulled from the R700 before I sold it and stuck it into the Grayboe stock.  So far all I have done is cleaned the barrel good and then put 5 rounds through it.  All of those were used to get the scope zeroed, so no groups yet.  Want to clean the barrel again and hopefully put a few more rounds through it this weekend.  Pictures when I clean it again.

I've decided to get rid of the Grayboe stock.  Probably for a chassis.  Not sure yet.  I will be posting the stock and Detachable Bottom Metal up for sale in the classifieds section later today probably in case anybody is interested in it.  It is a nice stock and a huge upgrade compared to the factory R700 stocks.  Just wanting to go a different route this time.