Hello Guest

Author Topic: Niger SF attack: Back Channel commentary  (Read 629 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 21100
    • View Profile
Niger SF attack: Back Channel commentary
« on: October 23, 2017, 01:04:27 PM »
Subject: FW: [Non-DoD Source] Fwd: Niger Ambush & Johnson

An unofficial back channel.
 
 
This just in from Special Activities Division (SAD) source in USG. Worth a read.
 
From my associates in the community, I have gotten the two stories currently floating around.  One is what appears to have happened, and the other is the Pentagon/USG Cover-Your-Ass (CYA) version.
 
The Pentagon CYA version continually changes, starts/stops, and is a massive blame game.  To them, it is obviously the A-Team?s fault and error on a ?routine? training and advisory mission in Niger.  The narrative is that the A-Team, combined with Nigerien forces were out on a routine training advisory mission when (allegedly got sloppy) and ambushed (lucky chance) by a pro-Al Queda (ALQ) force.
 
My SF associates tell another version, and one I tend to believe.  The American A-Team had two, possibly four non-SF personnel (SGT La David Johnson being one of them).  The non-SF support folks were support weenies (drivers, supply & mechanics).  So, you had an A-Team of approximately 12 ? 16 personnel; only 12 being Special Forces.  The A-Team was leading and advising a Nigerien Army force of approximately 30 Nigerien soldiers.  Their mission was not a routine training and advisory, but a joint US-Nigerien mission to seek out High Value Targets (HVTs); I.e., Nigerien ALQ leaders or forces.  The mission was conducted near Tonga-Tonga, along the Mali-Nigerien border; a very hot and active AO.
 
The story goes that they had conducted their mission and were returning when they stopped at a local village to do a ?meet & greet? - being seen and obtaining local intelligence.  It is alleged that the village headman and others mysteriously (and suspiciously) detained the US/Nigerien force well after the time they wished to depart.  Could the headman and others be in cahoots with the local guerrillas/ALQ using the delay to allow time to prepare an ambush?  Nobody knows, but French/Nigerien force have allegedly arrested and taken the village headman and others away for interrogation.
 
Leaving this particular village and heading back to their base camp, the joint A-Team/Nigerien Army force was indeed ambushed by a heavily armed ALQ band numbering approximately 50 fighters.  The ALQ band had small arms, machineguns and RPGs, and possibly mortars.  For some reason, approximately half of the US/Nigerien force was allowed to pass through the ambush killzone before the ambush was sprung, trapping the rear half.  Immediately after the ambush was initiated, the first half swung around to engage the ambushers and save the rear half.  It is then alleged that except for those already dead or wounded, all of the Nigerien soldiers bugged out and left the Americans to fight ALQ all by themselves.  Two groups, roughly 6-8 Americans per group fighting for their lives alone against a superior ALQ force.
 
Airstrikes were requested as the Americans fought on.  Several French Mirage fighters responded, but refused to engage citing poor weather, rough terrain and an inability to differentiate friend from foe.  American SF requested ?danger close? support and attempted to talk the CAS in, but the French Mirages alleged continued to refuse to engage.  Meanwhile, a French Quick Reaction Force (QRF) was contacted and on their way to the fight.
 
The Americans fought until relieved by the arrival of the French QRF.  The ALQ force broke contact and melted away.  Meanwhile, the French QRF searched the immediate vicinity and conducted MEDEVAC operations.  Three American Special Forces soldiers were either dead or would later die from wounds, several others wounded and one American support soldier (Johnson) missing.
 
Johnson?s body was found near the ambush 48 hours later.  At present, nobody is sure if Johnson broke and ran like the Nigeriens, or was captured and then executed by the ALQ.  Either way, he wasn?t in the two small Special Forces perimeters when the French QRF arrived.
 
Such things happen.  People get separated, captured or bug-out in panic.  Johnson was a driver.  For whatever reason, his failure to remain with the other Special Forces soldiers cost him his life.
 
And that is what I have been told about the action in Niger.  Basically 12-16 American soldiers abandoned, split in half and fighting to join together against a superior and more heavily armed enemy.  And the majority survived.
 
FYI
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Offline cj7ox

  • Registered
  • **
  • Posts: 631
    • View Profile
Re: Niger SF attack: Back Channel commentary
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2017, 03:32:22 PM »
This narrative make a lot of sense. Thanks for sharing, Don.
~Sean M. Davis

?The citizens of a free state ought to consist of those only who bear arms.? ~Aristotle

Μολων Λαβε

Offline Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 21100
    • View Profile
Re: Niger SF attack: Back Channel commentary
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2017, 04:21:14 PM »
This narrative make a lot of sense. Thanks for sharing, Don.
Still a shame that any of our guys get hurt...
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Offline KensAuto

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 4977
  • Just call me Bounty.... always absorbing abuse
    • View Profile
Re: Niger SF attack: Back Channel commentary
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2017, 04:27:52 PM »
Still a shame that any of our guys get hurt...
The only comfort I get from it, is knowing that those guys probably took out a ***t load of heathens before they scattered like the cowards they are..
..May they (SF) rest in peace
Underpaid and misunderstood since 2014

Offline Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 21100
    • View Profile
Niger SF attack: Back Channel commentary
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2017, 04:35:14 PM »
Oh you better believe it bro.

I once made it a study after one memorable operation during Desert Storm. I studied the huge differential in body counts between US soldiers and our enemies. Script does not read well for anyone in history that ever came up against us.

The highest kill ratio I ever read about was 2700:1. Cost them nearly three thousand xxxxxxx to bag one single US Infantryman. Obviously not always that good,
and, know what that means?


We have room for improvement! ;-)
« Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 10:22:40 PM by Dawg25385 »
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder

Offline Bob/OlallaWa

  • Registered
  • **
  • Posts: 1159
    • View Profile
Re: Niger SF attack: Back Channel commentary
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2017, 07:16:06 PM »
Such a shame to loose even one, We did what we could and then the questions and subtle or not comments being made, what a disappointment for our country.

Offline Wilbur

  • Registered
  • **
  • Posts: 1538
    • View Profile
Re: Niger SF attack: Back Channel commentary
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2017, 09:40:15 AM »
Thanks for posting this Don. So hard to sort wheat from chaff through what's reported in the media.

Offline Wilbur

  • Registered
  • **
  • Posts: 1538
    • View Profile
Re: Niger SF attack: Back Channel commentary
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2017, 11:11:11 AM »
Don just saw this- obviously a different view from what you posted. Do you have a sense of which is more likely the accurate story?

October 26, 2017

Sergeant La David Johnson's ODB support team was on a mission to setup a CIA drone base in Niger, was never truly missing, and were asleep when the ambush began.

VERO BEACH, FL (TruNews) In the early morning hours of Thursday October 4th, a twelve man Special Forces Operational Detachment Bravo team, also known as an ODB, was ambushed in Niger by a force of approximately fifty attackers using seventeen technical trucks mounted with medium and heavy Soviet-made crew serve weapons. 

From the onset, military officials knew three U.S. soldiers had been killed and that one was alive but missing in action. 
Although media was reporting mechanic Sgt. La David Johnson as MIA, military officials have told TruNews that AFRICOM never lost track of the "missing" soldier.

According to three active duty military personnel assigned to Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC), following the separation from his unit, Sgt. Johnson was tracked by aerial surveillance and reconnaissance assets, but due to the "tyranny of distance" response time for the reactionary force and medical attention was stretched between 38 and 42 hours.

The officials, who have been briefed on the details of the operation in Niger, but spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not permitted to discuss the incident publicly, also told TruNews that the ODB team was parked in place and asleep at the time of the initial ambush.

With none of the ODB team awake to provide security, the enemy was emboldened and uninhibited in their setup of the deadly close range ambush.

ODB teams are comprised of mostly "non special forces qualified" soldiers, and are usually not assigned a Joint Tactical Attack Controller (JTAC) due to their predominate role as a support element, rather than a direct combat asset, which they lack the trained personnel to properly fulfill.

This may explain why the ODB team did not, and could not, communicate with the two French Mirage fighter jets which arrived "on station" while the ODB team was still fighting for their lives, approximately one hour after the initial ambush.
Officials also told TruNews that prior to the ambush, the ODB team was carrying out a reconnaissance mission for the placement of a CIA drone base, also referred to as an Advanced Operational Base (AOB).

Niger was picked for the placement of the CIA drone base because of its strategic positioning in the center of the African continent. The CIA operates similar drone reconnaissance bases in South Sudan and Tanzania. 

In response to this report, Department of Defense spokesperson U.S. Army Major Audricia M. Harris told TruNews that the U.S. military does not have an active, direct combat mission in Niger. 

Offline KensAuto

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 4977
  • Just call me Bounty.... always absorbing abuse
    • View Profile
Re: Niger SF attack: Back Channel commentary
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2017, 11:17:43 AM »
SF guys not pulling security at night? sounds fishy to this civy.
Underpaid and misunderstood since 2014

Offline wyorunner

  • Registered
  • **
  • Posts: 590
    • View Profile
Re: Niger SF attack: Back Channel commentary
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2017, 11:37:00 AM »
Misdirection to fit the provided public narrative?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline cj7ox

  • Registered
  • **
  • Posts: 631
    • View Profile
Re: Niger SF attack: Back Channel commentary
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2017, 11:43:34 AM »
Even an ODB should have been pulling security. That's something that is preached constantly, even in support roles. Always maintain 360* security. Now, that said, I have known purely logistical units to be lax on that, but anyone involved with SF should know better, especially in a foreign, hostile AO. This report seems very fishy. It also seems fishy that it would take 40+ hours for a personnel recovery mission to be spun up. This smells like an effort to discredit the military, IMO.
~Sean M. Davis

?The citizens of a free state ought to consist of those only who bear arms.? ~Aristotle

Μολων Λαβε

Offline cudakidd53

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 3004
    • View Profile
Re: Niger SF attack: Back Channel commentary
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2017, 02:35:15 PM »
Smells to me like the fruits of the last 8 years coming home to roost - warm fuzzy feelings replaced the oftentimes warranted and necessary kick in the pants during basic training and a Championship round of ?Call of Duty? replaces real world range time and ?war games? leaving the tech specialists looking for the joystick and reset button!
2012 Silverado LTZ - Duramax
Christian since 1975 - Field Trial Brittanys - NRA Lifetime Member

"When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. Hence, dealing with this fact is not difficult. It is only hard for those still living around you.....It's the same when you're stupid."

Offline Flyin6

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 21100
    • View Profile
Re: Niger SF attack: Back Channel commentary
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2017, 09:05:10 PM »
SF guys not pulling security at night? sounds fishy to this civy.
I don't know.
That's the kind of stuff you get face to face and never over the net. Big Brother is ever watchful
Now this is what I do know.
An SF team caught with their pants down, sleeping??
Never, No Way, Never has, nor never will ever happen

SF units have both "A" teams and "B" teams
The A team guys are the green beret wearing snake eaters
The B-team guys are maroon beret wearing support guys. There's a pretty big tail that wags the dog in combat units. Those support guys can still carry a rifle and are able to move about the battlefield without the green beret, "Tab wearing" guys.
So would a group of truck drivers supporting the green tab guys catch a nap in enemy territory? Sadly, yes, I believe they might.
How do you get into a Special FOrces unit as a support guy you ask? Just show up at the reassignments desk when they need a cook, and just like that you're in a SF unit. You are nowhere near being a green beret. That takes an awful lot of training after being selected (Hand picked) The only thing different about a mechanic in a SF unit and one in washington DC is that the guy hanging around the snake eaters will likely get drug into some spicy places.
SF selection is tough...Way tough, like Ranger school, it is very difficult to complete. My unit was graduating one out of 25 when I went into all that business. Sgt Johnson got separated during the fight as many soldiers do, probably just by dodging the heavy machine gun fire.
I salute his service and sacrifice and send my sympathies to his widow and other surviving family members

There is not much to this story, other than one of the hundreds of behind the scenes military missions went bad.
Site owner    IS 6:8  Psalm 91 
NSDQ      Author: Distant Thunder