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Offline TexasRedNeck

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new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« on: December 11, 2017, 06:28:14 PM »
Some of you may know that I love standardizing weapons systems.  One of the systems I've gone to is the 870.

https://www.remington.com/shotguns/pump-action/model-870-dm

Ran across this.  Not sure how I feel about it yet.  I can carry that much ammo in my long tube without a mag hanging down.

However reloading speed and maybe some aftermarket 10 rounders might make this an interesting weapon.

However inserting a slug and double racking seems impossible.

Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

Joshua 6:20-24

Offline OldKooT

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2017, 07:58:25 PM »
Hmmmm..... not sure what to think about this. I guess without handling one and messing with it I'd not be sure... but the gut says,  I will keep my present 870.

We should start a 870 thread...mods, tricks, how to use one for a hood prop the works.

you need to explain this standardization concept LoL






Norm

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Offline stlaser

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2017, 09:14:44 PM »
My 2 cents, don?t fix what isn?t broken

It?s a solid proven weapon platform & now we?re gunna introduce a mag system by a company that isn?t what it used to be? Hmmmm

I have several 870?s so I?m standardized if I wanted a siaga I have a couple of those already but not my go to regardless

I?ve hunted with an 870 just about every game animal in the state of Indiana since I was around 12 years old with one & it?s familiar to say the least without me thinking. A year or so ago I took a tactical course that added quite a bit to my depth.

With all that said if you didn?t have an 870 already or 500 mossy and wanted one to then be different than the 5 million 870?s and parts available already I say go & buy one. Guessing inserting a slug would be no different or double pumping etc.....
« Last Edit: December 11, 2017, 09:20:15 PM by stlaser »
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Offline stlaser

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2017, 09:22:40 PM »
Back up, just had another thought. So if you?re inserting a slug let?s say from underneath on a half pump then the mag will be right in the way. I say that alone is a no go for me.....
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2017, 11:19:20 PM »
I love shotguns and I like box magazines

Having said that I own a $1500 Saiga. It took that much $$$ to get it working and do the customization I wanted...Right and left charging handle, poly choke, short barrel, speed and reliability mods.

Saiga seems to build two different shotguns. Those that work (25%) and those which do not. Once you get them working, they are way good. I have a 20 round drum on mine and a bunch of 10 round mags. My gun runs fine and will hit a pie plate with a 1oz slug at 100 meters. Guy that built it says it will perform out to 150, but who in their right mind is ever going to launch a slug out 450 feet?

And I carry a 930 everywhere with me, like every day, everywhere. It has malfunctioned a few times, but only when dirty. I once qualified my whole security team on that gun one afternoon. Just kept running ammo. Box after box...I'd say 200-300 rounds and it was starting to do all sorts of funky stuff. That made me think about going back to my trusty persuader with its way too long 20" barrel.

So seeing this hand cocker with a magazine has my interest. I think I may just pop for one...
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Offline stlaser

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2017, 11:42:11 PM »
Up until a couple years ago Indiana only allowed shotgun for deer (& some pistols chambered in rifle cartridges) needless to say I had a couple 12ga?s they were accurate at 150-175 yards. Good enough to bring down a large bodied deer. One was a bolt action mossberg with a 2 round box mag. The other was my beretta semi auto in 12ga both with rifled barrels lobbing Winchester 3? sabots. Just saying it?s pretty common in whitetail areas where you are limited in what you can shoot.
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2017, 11:56:55 PM »
Up until a couple years ago Indiana only allowed shotgun for deer (& some pistols chambered in rifle cartridges) needless to say I had a couple 12ga?s they were accurate at 150-175 yards. Good enough to bring down a large bodied deer. One was a bolt action mossberg with a 2 round box mag. The other was my beretta semi auto in 12ga both with rifled barrels lobbing Winchester 3? sabots. Just saying it?s pretty common in whitetail areas where you are limited in what you can shoot.
Copy that, I did it myself. Just don't see lobing slugs out there as a combat gun. I guess I should have been more specific.
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Offline wyorunner

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2017, 12:00:36 AM »
Anybody here have a Molot vepr 12? The Russian version of a saiga? I've seen em obtainable for 500, sadly never bought any. Know a guy who has a few, only ran one a bit but says it'll run. Particularly for the price.

His brother has the saiga.


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Offline Flyin6

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2017, 12:07:57 AM »
Anybody here have a Molot vepr 12? The Russian version of a saiga? I've seen em obtainable for 500, sadly never bought any. Know a guy who has a few, only ran one a bit but says it'll run. Particularly for the price.

His brother has the saiga.


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everyone I know runs the Saiga, but only the ones that actually work, and only after figuring out the gas port thing.

Note: With a Saiga, you need to figure out which ammo it will digest, then stay right there. Mine eats green remington 2 3/4 00 buckshot and the 2 3/4" 1 oz slug with no issues, so I just leave it right there. 500 rounds of each tucked away and a couple thousand Italian 00 buck which I haven't tried but feeds well into my 930 Mossy
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Offline wyorunner

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2017, 12:11:56 AM »
Anybody here have a Molot vepr 12? The Russian version of a saiga? I've seen em obtainable for 500, sadly never bought any. Know a guy who has a few, only ran one a bit but says it'll run. Particularly for the price.

His brother has the saiga.


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everyone I know runs the Saiga, but only the ones that actually work, and only after figuring out the gas port thing.

Note: With a Saiga, you need to figure out which ammo it will digest, then stay right there. Mine eats green remington 2 3/4 00 buckshot and the 2 3/4" 1 oz slug with no issues, so I just leave it right there. 500 rounds of each tucked away and a couple thousand Italian 00 buck which I haven't tried but feeds well into my 930 Mossy

I feel like this is because of its some what commonality as well as its more readily available. But who am I, I don't own either, or any semi automatic shotgun for matter. However wife and I sure do love our 870s with knoxx stocks on them. My pint size wife can accurately empty the mag tube shot after shot and not be blown away, so that's good nuff id say.

Offline stlaser

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2017, 12:37:03 AM »
I?ve modified several saigas, part of the problem with them is that on certain ones the gas holes were drilled incorrectly. If you pull the adjustment out & look in there you should see (three holes if I recall correctly) on some when they were assembled only one hole is actually doing anything as they were misaligned causing low gas pressure. There are other mod kits out there to increase reliability as well.

The molot vepr 12?s were supposed to be an upgrade from the saigas but I never bought one or read any real world reviews on them.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 12:38:32 AM by stlaser »
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Offline OldKooT

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2017, 06:54:09 AM »
I think it all boils down to preference.

We own a couple 870's, a couple Mossy 500's ... nothing to debate, I like them both. The 870 maybe a little more, not even sure why. With gloves the safety of the Mossy wins...

As semi auto go... my wife bought herself a Benelli M4 years ago. I have yet to shoot anything else that comes close. The Mossy 930 maybe, but it's not as smooth/fast and it's less forgiving of ammo choice.

My son has a Saiga... *eye roll* He'd own a M4 if he hadn't spent the $$ on a toy gun.


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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2017, 07:51:13 AM »
I heard Don day he?s going to get one and do a write up. (Turnabout is fair play for volunteering us to mod)

I have a saiga and M4 but let?s just say I have ?a few? 870s and related parts. My favorite is a Wilson Combat 870 that just runs and runs and runs.

The more I think about the mag system the more I think I don?t like not being able to insert a slug from the side saddle and double rack to transition to a slug


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Offline OldKooT

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2017, 08:15:25 AM »
 I'd agree on the mag box thing. I always keep my truck gun 00 first two shots then slugs. Old habit...

But the ability to "toss in" what I want is why I mentioned I think I will keep my old school 870's. Plus that mag just looks like it would be in my way....maybe not.

But yeah... if Don wants to try one out, I'd read his review. If he doesn't...I might know a gun shop owner who could write it off=P

As I get older I like "simple" more and more.



Norm

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Offline Flyin6

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2017, 12:20:53 PM »
Well, let's talk about how to load the shotgun up for an unexpected combat use

First round into the chamber is #6
    This is because if you're surprised or on the run you just turn and shoot. Chances are you will hit something, maybe one or two of the folks pursuing you.

Next follow up with two, 00 buckshot.
     Reason is now that you got their attention with the first surprise, now you have a tactical pause. Use that half second to
     place one, then two aimed shots. You can easily dispatch two assailants who are not yet masked with these shots.

Your next two rounds are sabot or slugs.
    Reasoning here is that your assailants who are recoiling from w "What the heck just happened? and They got Joe" moment will seek cover. Sabots you say??? Cover: poor choice. Sabots go through cars or cinder block walls like butter. Score two more for the good guys.

That's five. Depending on your magazine size, load the rest #6 to spray and pray, and learn to shoot backhand gun facing aft, simulating you running.

I'm just a pilot. But in my early days in spec ops I was carrying a mini-14 and two 1911's. My bubbas in Seal Team 6, when they were actually called that, told me to loose all the bling and just carry the shotgun, and load it the way I just told all of you. They were being kind in not saying, I was "Just a pilot."
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2017, 12:23:15 PM »
I heard Don day he?s going to get one and do a write up. (Turnabout is fair play for volunteering us to mod)

I have a saiga and M4 but let?s just say I have ?a few? 870s and related parts. My favorite is a Wilson Combat 870 that just runs and runs and runs.

The more I think about the mag system the more I think I don?t like not being able to insert a slug from the side saddle and double rack to transition to a slug


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You're fired!

Rule infraction

Don't put words in Don's mouth or cause him to spend money he does not presently have.

I'll consult with those other common rabble DOT Moderators to see if a temporary, probational reinstatement is even possible.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 12:23:52 PM by Flyin6 »
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2017, 01:47:01 PM »
So when you buying the gun?
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Offline Sammconn

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2017, 01:56:15 PM »
I just picked up a mag conversion for my 500.
Sporting goods place closing up.
No way would I part with $500 for the conversion, and extra drum, but for $114 I was on it.
I'll have to look at it, as I don't even know what brand...

Conversion came with 5 round box mag, and they only had 1 10 round drum, or I would have two of them.
My 500 only has a 5 round tube, so more capacity was on my want list.
I just don't want to wind up missing a digit or limb.  I can sometimes get in a hurry to get results.
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Offline BobbyB

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2017, 03:04:56 PM »
Eh.
So, Bobby...being the calculating trained warrior NCO that you are.  Take the appropriate action, Execute!

Offline stlaser

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2017, 03:19:17 PM »
I have tube extensions on mine, I also keep a goose hunting belt (its what I call it anyhow, has waterfowl camo on it) and I can throw it on extremely quick as it has a single snap together buckle on it that goes around my waste. I don't think I'd want anymore weight on the gun itself than what the tube provides as if when you manipulate the loads or reload the gun is held up with one arm.
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Offline OldKooT

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2017, 04:10:06 PM »
Ya know I was just at my shop...stopped in the gun store quick to ask about said 870 that started this discussion. Somehow ended up leaving with another .270 Mauser. I blame you guys... another $200 I will never see again.





Norm

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Offline stlaser

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2017, 05:41:05 PM »
Ya know I was just at my shop...stopped in the gun store quick to ask about said 870 that started this discussion. Somehow ended up leaving with another .270 Mauser. I blame you guys... another $200 I will never see again.


Somebody probably needs fired I'm just not sure who to blame on this one........ :popcorn:
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2017, 07:01:00 PM »
Ya know I was just at my shop...stopped in the gun store quick to ask about said 870 that started this discussion. Somehow ended up leaving with another .270 Mauser. I blame you guys... another $200 I will never see again.






Self control Norm...Self control!

Not that I have any,  :shocked: :shocked: but you should!
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2017, 11:55:03 PM »
Well since I'm currently fired, I'm not really posting this:

My load out Don is a CS gas rubber durometer in the #1 position.  Followed by OO all the way to the bottom of the tube.  Side saddle with 3slugs bottom up and 3 more OO bottom down.

As a civi, my thought process is that I gave them a "less than lethal" warning and they refused to heed warning.  Everything after that, they had coming. (think: good for the defense lawyer I will need) Those CS durometers are pretty cool as long as you don't hit them with it closer than about 25 feet as they tend to break skin.  But a whollop to the chest a big poof of CS in the face is a pretty good determinate of who really wants to get it on and who doesn't

OK, I'm back to being fired.  Can't wait to see the new gun Don......
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Offline stlaser

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2017, 12:23:38 AM »
Charles, as much as I admire your logic about firing that first round & your future lawyer I?m not sure you are gaining anything by doing so.......

Kinda goes back to that training session I had with my young wife years ago when we only had one kid. Had an exposed hammer side by side 12ga in the master closet. A long hallway to the bedrooms & told her if someone broke in and came down the hallway to just point that down the hallway and pull the trigger. My thinking the OO buckshot loads would do their job. Of course her being pretty smart her next question is what do I do then? I said pull the other trigger & make sure he doesn?t get up.

Dead guys have a hard time telling their side of the story & when the police show up the only thing you tell them is ?you feared for your life?.
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Offline JR

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2017, 12:42:09 AM »
I like the CS shells, but think they are illegal for all but LE about everywhere. Bird shot for the first round/rounds I can understand as long as you have a few backup.

Not sure if I like the idea of mags for a scatter gun. Used both 870's and the 500 at work, both do the job fine.

I like my mossy but never found a extension for the tube, but mine holds 8 anyway.

Then my KSG that holds 14, but you can't combat load it at all. However 7 "OO" and 7 slugs should finish most anything.

I have Winchester 1500 auto, but just used it for hunting a few times. It could use a tube extension only holding 3.

So Norm, how did you get a 270 for $200?
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2017, 07:50:22 AM »
I like the CS shells, but think they are illegal for all but LE about everywhere.
Well don?t go getting technical on me.....JR

Shawn, in Texas we may be legally able to use those rounds as first date deterrent for my daughter?s suitors....


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Offline Bear9350

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2017, 08:29:24 AM »
After the near break-in attempt a couple years ago where the wife waved a shotgun in his face and he didn't immediately turn and run I pulled out my stock of rifled slugs that I used to use for deer season.  Just about as accurate as you can be with a quick shot on any open sighted rifle but a much larger hole.  Model 1300 Winchester I have had since my 12th birthday.  If came as a "Turkey special" with an 18" barrel.

Offline stlaser

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2017, 08:41:59 AM »
I like the CS shells, but think they are illegal for all but LE about everywhere.
Well don?t go getting technical on me.....JR

Shawn, in Texas we may be legally able to use those rounds as first date deterrent for my daughter?s suitors....


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Well then, you better be stocking up! I think I need to look at relocating........
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Offline stlaser

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2017, 08:45:59 AM »
After the near break-in attempt a couple years ago where the wife waved a shotgun in his face and he didn't immediately turn and run I pulled out my stock of rifled slugs that I used to use for deer season.  Just about as accurate as you can be with a quick shot on any open sighted rifle but a much larger hole.  Model 1300 Winchester I have had since my 12th birthday.  If came as a "Turkey special" with an 18" barrel.

I?ve witnessed the carnage a 12ga sabot can do in a large bodied buck at close range. Most don?t run at all if you get shot placement right.

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Offline Bear9350

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2017, 09:00:16 AM »
I?ve witnessed the carnage a 12ga sabot can do in a large bodied buck at close range. Most don?t run at all if you get shot placement right.

There is a difference between a sabot and a slug.  I have put both through this gun.  In addition to the smooth barrel this gun was a package deal that came with a rifled barrel to run sabots through.  That barrel came with actual adjustable open sights and the receiver of the gun came drilled and tapped for scope mounts from the factory.  Sabots are a the next level of accuracy over just rifled slugs.  The area I am live in now just recently switched from shotgun only deer season to allowing rifle also.  One of my coworkers, (not a big gun nut, but a big hunter and owns plenty of hunting specific firepower) has a shotgun setup with a rifled barrel shooting sabots, and a scope that he has taken deer out to 250 yards with and would feel confident out to 300 yards.  He needs to make adjustments for elevation but the energy and accuracy are there.

Offline stlaser

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2017, 09:12:11 AM »
Correct, I was thinking in terms of weight of the round & tissue damage.

If he has taken deer at 250-300 yards that?s quite a bit farther than I have heard before. If true pretty impressive as well. My last buck was 175 yards with rifled barrel & sabots, good scope. I was personally confident in the range but not sure how much farther I would have gone.
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Offline OldKooT

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2017, 09:54:57 AM »
Jr... my favorite action is the model 98 Mauser. My fav hunting caliber is .270...it was cheap...I am weak LoL

I will start a thread if ya all want to watch the process?

Norm

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Offline Bear9350

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2017, 10:16:37 AM »
Correct, I was thinking in terms of weight of the round & tissue damage.

If he has taken deer at 250-300 yards that?s quite a bit farther than I have heard before. If true pretty impressive as well. My last buck was 175 yards with rifled barrel & sabots, good scope. I was personally confident in the range but not sure how much farther I would have gone.

In my experience the deer fist has to be able to stand back up before it can run away.  Those sabots are heavy and have a ton of energy in them.  In my limited experience with them it generally knocks them off their feet.

This guy is one of the few that I would probably believe such a claim from.  He is a nearly 40 year old bachelor with but one hobby, and that is hunting.  He comes from a family of very serious hunters.  He is also a fellow engineer, so quit methodical.  I'm sure he has tested out to that range and ranges in between and charted bullet drop. 

Offline OldKooT

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2017, 11:07:59 AM »
Load out: (this may become lengthy)

Don your load out recommendations are solid advice I feel if confronting human beings. though It might get you killed on the Ranch.
First some background...I CC a .380 Kimber Micro when I need to conceal (not often) Other wise I open carry a full frame Kimber .45, or sometimes a PT99 if on the "ranch" both have failed me multiple times in "defense"  Hence the last few years I just keep the 870 very close.  My learning experiences...

I was repairing a broken pivot in tall grass. Out of the blue a angry wild boar just shows up charging. No clue what his issue was, rare they ever bother you. He was 20' away when I got my first glimpse..I heard him way before I could see him. I took 3 fast shots at a less than ideal angle with the 9mm. Then I ran for the pickup hood...and emptied the other 14 into him as i ran. I jumped on the hood, he died when he hit the bumper. I hit him all total 15 times. Too small of a gun...simple reality.

So I decided the shot gun was the answer because despite my always having a 45/70 lever in the pickup it still requires semi precise shot placement on larger animals, and smaller ones are harder to hit period.

I load it 00 00 then slug/00/the rest slugs. Here is the reason... most "critters" I have to shoot are smaller, maneuverable, and in brush/grass. I once had to use it on a badger that was determined to tear me apart. First shot of that 00 slowed him down a LOT but it took #2 to stop him. Bird shot or even #6 would have just pissed him off more...00 removed chunks. That second shot had it been a slug may have missed.

Last spring Kay and I were way out in the hills fixing a fence corner. I was carrying the Kimber .45  Kay had the 870. This steer grazing about 35' from us had been minding his own business for almost a hour..we had the fence almost repaired. Out of the blue he paws the ground and charges right at me. I draw the .45 and I see Kay go for the 870 10' from her. I got 4 shots into his chest area and he just lowered his head and charged harder. Then the 870 starts barking... she hit him two to the head with the 00 slowing him but he's still coming with half his head skin and one eye gone, and she flat gutted him with the remaining slugs to his chest/shoulder. Never was I so thankful for not only her practicing dumping lead fast on target, but also for the load out.

That steer died on his feet falling and knocked me over. My .45 was empty.... useless toy guns against large angry creatures.

I also know of a Milk cow gone mad who took 7 .45 to the head and chest and still mauled the pickup the farmer dove into for 2 min before dropping.

In my world... self defense is not from humans. They don't worry me too much. Sad day I have to draw any weapon on a human being... on animals it's just part of life at times, and isn't uncommon to need to stop them HARD.

Recently my sons and I were shooting paper at 40 yards with the hand guns. We practice long because in my experience it's valuable. We were  crowing about our groups on the multiple targets. My Kimber Micro is a tack driver at that range for a CC weapon..the PT99 is just flat as accurate all day. The kids Glock was holding well also.... Kay walks up with her Benelli and proceeds to hammer two targets with the 00 and then blow the wooden posts n half with slugs. Her way of saying supper was ready.

At supper the oldest son says "Dad, I fear Kay and her shotgun" LoL






 
Norm

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Offline OldKooT

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2017, 11:13:19 AM »
I often shoot long yardage with my 45/70 which has about the same holdover as a shot gun  LoL
Norm

Are you a prepper?  "No, whats a prepper? I am just a mildly OCD farmer"

Offline stlaser

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2017, 01:55:10 PM »
Jr... my favorite action is the model 98 Mauser. My fav hunting caliber is .270...it was cheap...I am weak LoL

I will start a thread if ya all want to watch the process?

By all means please do if you can get your camera figured out....
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Offline stlaser

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #37 on: December 13, 2017, 01:56:50 PM »
Correct, I was thinking in terms of weight of the round & tissue damage.

If he has taken deer at 250-300 yards that?s quite a bit farther than I have heard before. If true pretty impressive as well. My last buck was 175 yards with rifled barrel & sabots, good scope. I was personally confident in the range but not sure how much farther I would have gone.

In my experience the deer fist has to be able to stand back up before it can run away.  Those sabots are heavy and have a ton of energy in them.  In my limited experience with them it generally knocks them off their feet.

This guy is one of the few that I would probably believe such a claim from.  He is a nearly 40 year old bachelor with but one hobby, and that is hunting.  He comes from a family of very serious hunters.  He is also a fellow engineer, so quit methodical.  I'm sure he has tested out to that range and ranges in between and charted bullet drop.

Now you have me wondering what the bullet drop is at 300 yards on one of those sabots. It?s been several years but thinking it was around 8-9? at 150 yards....
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Offline Bear9350

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #38 on: December 13, 2017, 03:21:58 PM »
Just did a quick and dirty on a ballistics calculator.  Using the manufacturer muzzle velocity I matched the manufacturer's estimated bullet drop at 150 yards of 4.4".  That gave me 42" drop at 300 yards and a projectile velocity of just of 1200 fps.

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #39 on: December 13, 2017, 05:14:29 PM »
Bear. What zero was that? 100 yards?  I?m assuming the 1200 was muzzle velocity. What was the velocity at 300?


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Offline stlaser

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #40 on: December 13, 2017, 05:16:56 PM »
The Winchester 2.75 have a muzzle velocity of 1350 (I just looked at an old box)

Edit : & 1400 fps for the 3 inchers
« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 05:18:28 PM by stlaser »
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Offline Bear9350

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2017, 05:23:36 PM »
I just did a quick search and pulled up these.

http://www.winchester.com/products/shotshell-ammunition/advanced/Partition-Gold/Pages/SSP123.aspx

1850 for velocity at the muzzle
100 yard zero

Offline Bear9350

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #42 on: December 13, 2017, 05:37:41 PM »
I've also got some Winchester super x sabots with a printed velocity of 1400 and some rifled slugs with a velocity of 1600.  Both 3".  Had those sabots for about 15 plus years now though.

Offline OldKooT

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #43 on: December 13, 2017, 08:20:30 PM »
and then ya have to factor in hot hand loads .... :laugh:
Norm

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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #44 on: December 13, 2017, 09:26:17 PM »
I got one for you Norm.  A handgun load that might make you reconsider the utility of a handgun on large animals.....

Barns 200gn XTP in a 10mm glock with a KKM barrel.  1353fps.  14 in the mag.  pretty much a get-r-dun load on most animals, 2 or 4 footed
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Offline JR

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #45 on: December 13, 2017, 11:15:01 PM »
I hear good things about the 10mm on big animals. 14 is some firepower. Enough for the critters buddy too.
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #46 on: December 13, 2017, 11:46:09 PM »
I think a shotgun will kill almost anything pdq.

One friend of mine shot a woman five times with a .44, and she lived most of the way to the hospital

Our gunners sometimes did "forensic investigations" of some of their targets. One little guy was hit four times and took two more M855 to close his chapter.

No one I know shot anyone with a shotgun, but we got to look at people who made poor decisions who met .300 Win mags, .338 Lapua, and of course the .50 Browning. The second of those two rounds literally tears the whole body into pieces, even from range. I think the 12 gage is transferring similiar out of the world energy. It really is all about getting that energy into a body somewhere.

Of the things I have witnessed, there was usually some narcotic involved. Hash, Heroin, THC, and even some guys speedin' along. You shoot someone like that and they will just keep motoring. THe narcotic masks the pain, the drug takes the shock of being hit off one's mind, and in many cases dead people just kept staying in the fight.

So lesson here, if you find yourself entangled with someone who you suspect is on THC (THC is the best of the drugs for the bad guy to be on) then place a shot which may disable mechanical functions, then run. Get to cover and safety. Of course if you have a buddy or loved ones about you will have to remove the threat completely. Mag dumps or something very obviously wrong with the assailant is the order of the day. Your job is to stop the threat and get yourself to safety.
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #47 on: December 14, 2017, 12:00:16 AM »
Don, reminds me of a shooting competition I was in with two active duty rangers. Kids really 22 and 23 years old. Sniper team. Cleaning weapons after the day we chatted about their experience as I have a cousin who is a marine Corp sniper in some far away places.  They were running the ?new? M24 system in 300wm for the competition at the time but in the field they ran a 50. They had seen things no one that young should have seen. It was related in a very matter of fact way, that a hit from a 50 at 1500m separates the top half from the bottom half.  And the bottom half take a step or two to figure out it ain?t still attached. 

Regarding bad guys being doped. Ocular cavity shots pretty much cures what ever it is that ailed them.  Immediately.

Some are teaching head shots in self defense as the first point of aim but I?m still a proponent of two center mass and a rapid follow up to the ocular cavity.


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« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 12:01:04 AM by TexasRedNeck »
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Offline Wilbur

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #48 on: December 14, 2017, 12:15:23 AM »
Of the things I have witnessed, there was usually some narcotic involved. Hash, Heroin, THC, and even some guys speedin' along. You shoot someone like that and they will just keep motoring. THe narcotic masks the pain, the drug takes the shock of being hit off one's mind, and in many cases dead people just kept staying in the fight.

In my younger years I bounced and bartended a lot of places. Used to do armed security in a few Mexican bars in CO. The single most difficult person I ever removed from a bar was a scrawny 5' 5" or so 140 lb 14 yo kid on PCP (They had a restaurant side so any age could be in there the young ones had to stay on the restaurant side unless they were dancibg). Little bugger was darn near super human. He spreadeagled himself in the doorway and I literally couldn't get him out. I backed up about 6 feet or so and ran at him, my shoulder into the small of his back got him through, and into the wall about 4 feet past the doorway. Never saw anything like it. Crazy drug.

There's a cop training video of a guy coming out of a house with a gun on PCP.  I forget how many rounds the cops put in him but he just keeps coming. I want to say it's 25-30 rounds or so. Creepy stuff.

Offline stlaser

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Re: new remington 870 mag fed shotgun
« Reply #49 on: December 14, 2017, 12:22:07 AM »
Some are teaching head shots in self defense as the first point of aim but I?m still a proponent of two center mass and a rapid follow up to the ocular cavity.


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"Head and Hips" is what I have been hearing for the last couple of years now.........
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