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Author Topic: H.R. 34 Arm the teachers & admins at schools, remove gun free zones  (Read 472 times)

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Offline stlaser

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Offline OldKooT

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Re: H.R. 34 Arm the teachers & admins at schools, remove gun free zones
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2018, 12:37:35 PM »
We would not agree on this issue... :laugh:

Have you ever spoken to some of these teachers? And you want them to have a weapon in school? Half of them these days are the very nut bags we are worried about. They are teaching the agendas and the mind sets that are causing mass shootings.

I think I agree with the idea we should have people armed in schools. But I think they should be well trained specialists with skill sets that apply to such a detail.

In other words a well trained, individual who has been through a specialty developed program for just such a challenging protection detail. I would not even be ok with many veterans having that job unless they passed such a detail. What we are facing is needing a "body guard" for 100's of kids, each school being a unique "zone" with situational specifics that are unique to that school. The last thing we need is a Militarized zone, kids hate school already LOL

Maybe we could have such specialist double up and teach a course daily on common sense... win win.



Norm

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Offline cudakidd53

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Re: H.R. 34 Arm the teachers & admins at schools, remove gun free zones
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2018, 01:44:31 PM »
Norm, not to worry, most teachers I work with wouldn't be in the same room with a gun since they're like Hillary when she looses - goes off without warning!  You would have to make all the guns pink and fuzzy and they can only shoot rainbows and lollipops.....You are correct Norm on some counts and wrong on some others.  Teachers who carry would need to be unknown to their fellow teachers and students and it would need to be ON THEIR PERSON at all times.  Not locked-up......under stress fine motor skills go to crap....what frickin' key is it?

I would want to be trained by FBI/SEALS/US MARSHALLS some group that actually know their stuff and I would want to have to pass such a course with accuracy and stability.  I would also what to pass some "paintball" scenarios (shoot/don't shoot) as well as pass evaluation from an AGENCY shrink who actually deals with members of aforementioned groups as to fitness to protect the students, sheep and assclowns I'd work amongst........might be a problem overcoming the urge to fragg some who didn't succumb to some Fraternity/Sorority prank during their undergraduate studies!  We currently have a handful of staff members whom I would proudly stand beside with confidence in a worst case scenario - Desert Storm Marine who was a click away from the infamous Airstrike on friendlies.  2 Deans of Students, one who was a competitive Army Machine Gun specialist.

There are no EASY answers, though there are some common sense actions that could be taken to lessen the current "Fish in the barrel" climate.
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Offline Atkinsmatt

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Re: H.R. 34 Arm the teachers & admins at schools, remove gun free zones
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2018, 02:20:43 PM »
We shouldn't think of the teachers ect as a SWAT team.  They need to be thought of as barricaded in their space prepared to defend those in their care, not roaming the halls looking for the bad guy with a gun.  That would have a huge potential to have a terrible outcome
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: H.R. 34 Arm the teachers & admins at schools, remove gun free zones
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2018, 03:46:32 PM »
We would not agree on this issue... :laugh:

Have you ever spoken to some of these teachers? And you want them to have a weapon in school? Half of them these days are the very nut bags we are worried about. They are teaching the agendas and the mind sets that are causing mass shootings.

I think I agree with the idea we should have people armed in schools. But I think they should be well trained specialists with skill sets that apply to such a detail.

In other words a well trained, individual who has been through a specialty developed program for just such a challenging protection detail. I would not even be ok with many veterans having that job unless they passed such a detail. What we are facing is needing a "body guard" for 100's of kids, each school being a unique "zone" with situational specifics that are unique to that school. The last thing we need is a Militarized zone, kids hate school already LOL

Maybe we could have such specialist double up and teach a course daily on common sense... win win.




Good point...Most teachers are nut cases.

I was on the local school board some years ago. When the sandy hook thing happened, I weighed in saying we needed to arm a couple of teachers. Just so happened the high school had an ex-Marine sergeant who was my son's reading teacher and an ex-Army grunt who was the math teacher for 5th grade. I suggested we just arm those two with pistols, then hide a pump shotgun in the school under lock and key where only those two could get to it. Then have the armed teachers qualify and remain current with the sheriff's department.
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Offline cudakidd53

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Re: H.R. 34 Arm the teachers & admins at schools, remove gun free zones
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2018, 03:55:56 PM »
We shouldn't think of the teachers ect as a SWAT team.  They need to be thought of as barricaded in their space prepared to defend those in their care, not roaming the halls looking for the bad guy with a gun.  That would have a huge potential to have a terrible outcome

Not with you on that one Matt - I don't want my students or myself to become fish in a barrel and should an attacker climb in the barrel, I want to be the Chief Piranah with the ability to separate his grey matter from his/her cranium......first line of defense is not SWAT.  Honestly, take away the gun free zone and have just one assailant catch a round to the chest at a school and the problem will disappear quickly.
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: H.R. 34 Arm the teachers & admins at schools, remove gun free zones
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2018, 08:48:28 AM »
I found a picture of Mike





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Offline cudakidd53

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Re: H.R. 34 Arm the teachers & admins at schools, remove gun free zones
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2018, 09:05:49 AM »
LOL- colleague sent the same one the day I was quoted in the Tribune!
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Offline stlaser

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Re: H.R. 34 Arm the teachers & admins at schools, remove gun free zones
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2018, 10:59:31 AM »
I agree with Norm lots of teachers are nut cases. I?m not asking them to be swat or for that matter demanding they be armed. What I think needs to happen is allowing ones who want & are capable to to do so have a path. This would include a training program and ongoing mental evaluation including quarterly training at a min. Norm, I think you of all people can find common ground in this.
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: H.R. 34 Arm the teachers & admins at schools, remove gun free zones
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2018, 11:11:47 AM »
^^ this and they should get paid more for the training and responsibility..
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Offline stlaser

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Re: H.R. 34 Arm the teachers & admins at schools, remove gun free zones
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2018, 12:18:04 PM »
^^ this and they should get paid more for the training and responsibility..

Absolutely
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Offline Atkinsmatt

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Re: H.R. 34 Arm the teachers & admins at schools, remove gun free zones
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2018, 06:51:25 PM »
We shouldn't think of the teachers ect as a SWAT team.  They need to be thought of as barricaded in their space prepared to defend those in their care, not roaming the halls looking for the bad guy with a gun.  That would have a huge potential to have a terrible outcome

Not with you on that one Matt - I don't want my students or myself to become fish in a barrel and should an attacker climb in the barrel, I want to be the Chief Piranah with the ability to separate his grey matter from his/her cranium......first line of defense is not SWAT.  Honestly, take away the gun free zone and have just one assailant catch a round to the chest at a school and the problem will disappear quickly.
I totally agree. The people that are already there are the best, fastest defense. Unfortunately many are not willing to do it and others are not prepared.  That was my primary point. Per your comments, how many of your colleagues would stack with you in the hall. I would volunteer for the training you suggest as would you.  Sheep dogs.
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Offline cudakidd53

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Re: H.R. 34 Arm the teachers & admins at schools, remove gun free zones
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2018, 08:22:24 PM »
Shedding some more "light" on the problem:

Today, I was "talked to" regarding one of our young snowflakes feeling "uncomfortable" due to the expression of my desire to be able to be armed in my classroom.....they phoned in said complaint to the anonymous tip line at the school!  I basically replied "SO WHAT" and my administrator said that enough said on the issue and they'd done their due diligence having "talked to me" and indicated that going forward, I should refrain from expressing my opinion.  I laughed and asked them how come I get talked to for expressing my opinion or a personal desire, and our F-ing Socialist Science Department gets unfettered access to preach their personal views and theocracy of the virtues of Socialism and Left Wing Radicalism?  They couldn't reply to that one very well......funny how many colleagues and students have stated that should something ever happen, they were heading towards my room!

I think Society has created a new, undefined life-form through political correctness and hyper sensitivity - Don previously mentioned the wide spread use in our youths of the "P-word" ..... wuss was the last softened version of it .... now what do we use?  Socialist?  Hillaryite?  Pablum puking, limp wristed girly men should even find our current lowest lifeforms of a generation's conduct offensive.  WE NEED AN OFFICIAL LABLE!   :facepalm:
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Re: H.R. 34 Arm the teachers & admins at schools, remove gun free zones
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2018, 11:19:40 PM »
God must give you the strength to hold on to your values in an ocean of hammers and sickles, because I know of no human that could do it alone!

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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: H.R. 34 Arm the teachers & admins at schools, remove gun free zones
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2018, 11:38:01 PM »


the perfect response, Mike
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

Joshua 6:20-24

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Re: H.R. 34 Arm the teachers & admins at schools, remove gun free zones
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2018, 11:46:14 PM »
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

Joshua 6:20-24

Offline Atkinsmatt

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Re: H.R. 34 Arm the teachers & admins at schools, remove gun free zones
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2018, 06:26:10 AM »
God bless you cuda. in your current environment for how much longer? Not much I hope. I work on a military base inside a scif doing construction.  Recently a vehicle search was conducted by the security officer of the building because someone told on someone else having some ammo in the vehicle.  Not a weapon, ammo. You would have thought they were hunting bin laden.  Said it's his duty to keep the facility safe. Even though having ammo is ok on base and this is an open parking area. I sure am glad they didn't look in my office trailer and find my Lee press and equipment.
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Offline cudakidd53

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Re: H.R. 34 Arm the teachers & admins at schools, remove gun free zones
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2018, 06:54:41 AM »
^^^^ 445 days......but I?m not counting....
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Offline OldKooT

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Re: H.R. 34 Arm the teachers & admins at schools, remove gun free zones
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2018, 10:06:14 AM »
Interesting discussion fellas.

Norm

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Offline cudakidd53

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Re: H.R. 34 Arm the teachers & admins at schools, remove gun free zones
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2018, 02:56:23 PM »


the perfect response, Mike

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Offline longball

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Re: H.R. 34 Arm the teachers & admins at schools, remove gun free zones
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2018, 08:05:21 PM »
...I would want to be trained by FBI/SEALS/US MARSHALLS some group that actually know their stuff and I would want to have to pass such a course with accuracy and stability...

Dad and I were talking about this issue last weekend. I proposed the FAM qualification standard should have to be met by those wanting to carry in schools (years ago I read it is the most difficult of all the fed agencies). The reasoning behind that is that I don?t want someone buying a gun, shooting a few rounds 2-3 times a year, passing a minimum standard qualification, then potentially wielding a hot handgun around a room full of kids in a stressful situation. I want people who make it their mission to excel at putting holes exactly where they want them and won?t accept a failure to do so. I?ve seen standards dumbed down so that a desired percentage of applicants pass and it never ends well.


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Re: H.R. 34 Arm the teachers & admins at schools, remove gun free zones
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2018, 10:48:56 PM »
...I would want to be trained by FBI/SEALS/US MARSHALLS some group that actually know their stuff and I would want to have to pass such a course with accuracy and stability...

I don?t want someone buying a gun, shooting a few rounds 2-3 times a year, passing a minimum standard qualification, then potentially wielding a hot handgun around a room full of kids in a stressful situation.


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Well in many jurisdictions that is exactly what you are going to get in first responders. 

For example. City Of Houston only pays for 50 rounds of ammo per year for each officer to pass qualification.  Any additional shooting is out of their own pocket. Most don?t shoot more than the minimum required.


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Offline halsey

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Re: H.R. 34 Arm the teachers & admins at schools, remove gun free zones
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2018, 10:59:50 PM »
now that's just cheap!  I had a girlfriend years ago in LE in Colorado.  Unlimited practice ammo... the way it should be.

Offline stlaser

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Re: H.R. 34 Arm the teachers & admins at schools, remove gun free zones
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2018, 11:25:20 PM »
Same thing I think happens in Cali, recall the Christopher Dorner manhunt? Those cops couldn?t hit the broad side of a barn & no one was shooting back the majority of the time. 

Btw, that was one guy, chew on that for a minute.....
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: H.R. 34 Arm the teachers & admins at schools, remove gun free zones
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2018, 10:08:20 AM »
...I would want to be trained by FBI/SEALS/US MARSHALLS some group that actually know their stuff and I would want to have to pass such a course with accuracy and stability...

Well in many jurisdictions that is exactly what you are going to get in first responders. 

For example. City Of Houston only pays for 50 rounds of ammo per year for each officer to pass qualification.  Any additional shooting is out of their own pocket. Most don?t shoot more than the minimum required.


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Fifty...That's a joke
The boys and I went through several hundred the other afternoon at the farm!
I have 400 set aside to work out the bugs and zero my new .300 build.
My security team has drilled for a year with their handguns without firing a single rounds. Rule is" Get it right all the time, then you get to use real cartridges.

I don?t want someone buying a gun, shooting a few rounds 2-3 times a year, passing a minimum standard qualification, then potentially wielding a hot handgun around a room full of kids in a stressful situation.



« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 07:13:23 PM by BobbyB »
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Offline OldKooT

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Re: H.R. 34 Arm the teachers & admins at schools, remove gun free zones
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2018, 11:07:23 AM »
Funny this subject of firearm training comes up. Personally shooting quite frequently with our local LEO's/fire department, I can say I'd not want to be on the receiving end of that at anything under 40 yards.

In the last two years local PD has hired 4 officers from other states departments. They all failed the "range qualifications" of our local PD multiple times. They also have hired two Vets, who also failed the qualifications more than once..... what this means in reality is, these established LEO's from other departments.... can't shoot as well as my wife who is qualified on both "courses" Interestingly, my wife shoots maybe on average 20 rounds a month. And has a failing eye.....yah

Our fire department is also required to pass the same qualification (with the exception of rifles) and most first responders outside the departments are also qualified.

FWIW our dog catcher is one heck of a shot, she often challenges the Department "men" to quite fierce "target battles" as she calls them. It's a bit amusing to think about, but if the SHTF our dog catcher rolls up, you can be assured she won't likely miss if required to draw. She also doubles as a well armed meter maid... when she isn't chasing stray animals she's always downtown enforcing her parking tickets like a Nazi hell bent on financing the new city aquatics park solely on us "violators"  I donate at least $20 a month .....I never have change.

The above all said, generally speaking I'd still not arm 90% of our schools employees. Grounds keepers, janitors, bus drivers.... sure. Teachers/academics.... sadly can't think of a one I'd hand the safety of children to with a firearm. I am not the only one with that opinion....and I can see some staff changes happening soon due to this very issue.

Last month I got the chance to watch a semi local Military "qualification" ... "hit the barn Gomer"  Ok.... My teenage Daughters could out shoot 90% who qualified... and they are what I'd call Proficient, not by any means as good as I'd like to see them.



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Offline cruizng

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Re: H.R. 34 Arm the teachers & admins at schools, remove gun free zones
« Reply #27 on: March 09, 2018, 09:06:06 AM »
I think like most everything in life they would have to posses "WANNA". They WANT to be the person that feels trained and ready to confront an arm subject. They WANT to devote the time and money to continued training and real life situations that improves their skills so they could match up with a Dog Catcher. :)

We should just remove the obstacles and provide the resources to the WANNA's of the world so they can be the first line of defense for the most vulnerable.

Oh yeah.. as well as hardening the schools, locking the doors, having a single point of entry, buzzed in visitors, etc.. all of the other "SENSIBLE" building control ideas.

 :grin:
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Re: H.R. 34 Arm the teachers & admins at schools, remove gun free zones
« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2018, 07:16:01 PM »
Best Shatner clip ever.
https://youtu.be/_KvO-8IvoCI



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Offline cudakidd53

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Re: H.R. 34 Arm the teachers & admins at schools, remove gun free zones
« Reply #29 on: March 12, 2018, 08:14:19 PM »
DENNY Craine.......!  :grin:
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