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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #50 on: February 25, 2018, 04:38:41 PM »
X2

Good discussion

CM
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Offline JR

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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #51 on: February 26, 2018, 04:31:54 AM »
After reading all of this I agree with some, but not all.

The laws on the books should be enforced, spirit of the, not just letter of the law (common sense)

No "permits" to buy/transfer a gun. I see nothing in the Constitution saying a right needs a permit? Permission to give my gun to my child?

Looks at gunrights as a big pie, it is always the same size. Everytime a new law is passed, the pie gets smaller, but we are not safer. Look how well these "laws" work in cities like NY and Chicago, even thought he pie is basically gone.

I bring up the vehicle argument all the time. I have used it for years and ask someone when was the last time you heard about a car ban after a drunk or old person ran over a bunch of people?
You can get a car that does 150mph easy, but why do you need it? Why do I need another gun, I like it, just like a car or BIG truck. Why do you need a mag that holds more than 10 rounds, less reloading, more fun.

Mental health is another issue. That needs to be addressed across state lines and included in backgrounds. When a person cannot function or is unpredictable, there firearm possession should be checked. But with a standard, not a simple box checked off by 1 person or 1 Dr.

Now tell me how the NRA is bad? True much (doners/business) is about money but they teach safety, support gun owners, take items to court for the little guy.
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Online stlaser

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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #52 on: February 26, 2018, 08:54:52 AM »
NRA history lesson very brief overview:

CCP was their idea
NFA they helped draft the legislation

I?ll leave it at that but if you want to research it further there is more.

So I?ll choose to support GOA & other (what appear to be at present time) true pro gun groups. The idea we can give a blanket approval to any man or group doesn?t work, the good book tells us this no less. We need to hold them accountable for their actions.
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Offline JR

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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #53 on: February 26, 2018, 01:19:05 PM »
Give me a link to the CCP, I come with walther pistols and schools.

NFA. Why would it be be bad to have them in the mix when the bill is drawn up? Sure just don't want congress to just be in charge there!

NRA is working with the Firearms coalition and CRPA out here trying to stop some of these stupid laws.

They may not do 100% of what everyone wants, but they are the biggest and why they are a target now. Remember, divide and conquer works both ways.

Educate myself and others,,,,,,,,,,,
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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #54 on: February 26, 2018, 03:05:11 PM »
In the 1920?s the NRA?s National Revolver Association (hand gun training arm at that time) proposed the conceal carry permit regulations that were later adopted by 9 states.

In the 1930?s the NRA helped Roosevelt draft the 1934 National Firearms Act along with the 1938 Gun Control Act which we?re the first two Federal Firearms laws.

Now for the record JR you asked how anyone could not like the NRA? Well, I don?t like these laws so I guess by default I don?t like the NRA. Do they do some good? Possibly, but it appears playing both sides is not out of question for them either.

« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 03:08:28 PM by stlaser »
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Offline JR

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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #55 on: February 26, 2018, 03:11:29 PM »
I know what the NFA is. I believe some regulations are good, like full auto and grenade launchers.

I would like it to be universal though where states don't get to restrict more items. I would love to see suppressors legalized. I don't mind someone having to get a CCW, but it should be a shall issue unless there is cause not to.
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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #56 on: February 26, 2018, 03:26:11 PM »
But NFA doesn?t stop you from having full auto, it just makes it super expensive. Not sure on grenade launchers, I guess I just assumed they wouldn?t allow my peasant hands to ever have them. Those are for the king and his men only..... :wink:
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Offline JR

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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #57 on: February 26, 2018, 04:14:36 PM »
I will take any help we can get. The pie cannot get smaller!!

Agreed on the FA, just was throwing things out. It does say you cannot convert, but have to buy old. That is why it costs so much.

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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #58 on: February 26, 2018, 08:39:00 PM »
this might not go as planned, but here it goes.  I'm all for gun rights, but practically we have to do something to prevent more of these massacres.

I believe we have to start with better reporting of disqualifying events;  prove to me you are efficient with the laws we already have before you earn the right to pass more.

e.g. the church shooter in Texas,  DO discharge from AF for domestic abuse, not reported, should have DQd him immediately. , countless people falsifying their 4473 and not prosecuted when rejected.  FBI and local LE not taking the reports seriously on this wack job in FL.  There should be a high bar but a bar none the less on removing mentally ill people from their weapons.

Then I believe that federal law should promote armed protection of our schools.  Bad guys gravitate to gun free zones. 

Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

Joshua 6:20-24

Offline KensAuto

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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #59 on: February 26, 2018, 09:28:14 PM »
Then I believe that federal law should promote armed protectors that won't hide behind a desk, at our schools.  Bad guys gravitate to gun free zones. 

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Offline wilsonphil

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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #60 on: February 26, 2018, 10:13:48 PM »
this might not go as planned, but here it goes.  I'm all for gun rights, but practically we have to do something to prevent more of these massacres.

I believe we have to start with better reporting of disqualifying events;  prove to me you are efficient with the laws we already have before you earn the right to pass more.

e.g. the church shooter in Texas,  DO discharge from AF for domestic abuse, not reported, should have DQd him immediately. , countless people falsifying their 4473 and not prosecuted when rejected.  FBI and local LE not taking the reports seriously on this wack job in FL.  There should be a high bar but a bar none the less on removing mentally ill people from their weapons.

Then I believe that federal law should promote armed protection of our schools.  Bad guys gravitate to gun free zones.

Agreed as long as the there is a way to challenge the system if you are listed by mistake or by fraudulent means.  Its VERY easy to get on lists but very hard to get removed.

 

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #61 on: February 26, 2018, 10:20:36 PM »
Understood. I realize it?s a very slippery slope and we need to have speedy appeals as part of the process. The burden of proof should lie with the state and not with the individual.


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Offline JR

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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #62 on: February 26, 2018, 11:55:51 PM »
Yep, lets arm those who wish to be in schools. Whats the problem with that? Sure many will volunteer.

I don't think it should be a high hurdle to purchase a firearm. Unless there is a reason you should not have one.

HIPPA is a huge issue here with regards to mental health, that I see is the common ground between most of these shootings.
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Offline cruizng

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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #63 on: February 27, 2018, 08:57:41 AM »
this might not go as planned, but here it goes.  I'm all for gun rights, but practically we have to do something to prevent more of these massacres.

I believe we have to start with better reporting of disqualifying events;  prove to me you are efficient with the laws we already have before you earn the right to pass more.

e.g. the church shooter in Texas,  DO discharge from AF for domestic abuse, not reported, should have DQd him immediately. , countless people falsifying their 4473 and not prosecuted when rejected.  FBI and local LE not taking the reports seriously on this wack job in FL.  There should be a high bar but a bar none the less on removing mentally ill people from their weapons.

Then I believe that federal law should promote armed protection of our schools.  Bad guys gravitate to gun free zones.

Agreed as long as the there is a way to challenge the system if you are listed by mistake or by fraudulent means.  Its VERY easy to get on lists but very hard to get removed.

As they say possession is 9 10ths  of the law so when they have confiscated your firearms the normal civilian has almost zero power to COMPEL the authorities to give them back. They can drag their feet for years and what can you do? Sue and rack up $$$$$ in attorney bills. Even if it was fast process of decision that is no guarantee of fast return.

The law would have severe penalties against the law enforcement that has your guns. If they don't return within 5 days of judgement they would have to pay you $5K for everyday after that. But then you would actual;y need judges to enforce the payment. Will all of the liberal judges they could be too busy also.

Not a lot of TRUST is the enforcement community. There are many examples of people that have had their property taken and never given back. Hmmm....   
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #64 on: February 27, 2018, 05:54:21 PM »
The alternative may be because we are too afraid to discriminate against ineligible gun owners we wind up playing into the hands of those that would remove all rights to firearms ownership.

Rock and hard place for sure.
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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #65 on: March 06, 2018, 11:41:04 AM »
Sorry haven't been online of late..

For the record: I don't feel "beat up on" I feel it's a discussion, If I thought everyone agreed with me,I'd have not bothered. Brass tacks as they are.... I will respond to a few things that were posted.

I fail to understand why anyone who is a gun enthusiasts thinks they aren't already "registered" Sure, maybe someone here has a weapon and has never once purchased one from a gun shop or similar retail business. It's possible... but those of you that have, are on file as a gun owner responsible for that weapon. So likely the majority of us....has this caused you a problem of any sort? Other than the NRA using such purchases to market their add campaign for you to join....and then you join? More registration...and the NRA does sell those lists for marketing.... lets be real here. Its LONG past time to worry about if someone knows you own a weapon.

Do you insure your weapons? I do... pretty sure that "list" is also available. Do you have a trust...a class 3?....because LoL at paranoia regarding them "coming for your guns" if you do.

It is a right to own your weapon... it's long ago been a right that's been trampled on. Ya ever hear anyone lobbying against the insurance companies, or the box store that records your credit card transaction when you buy a weapon or ammo? You see anyone lobbying against the NRA wanting your personal information to join? How about Amazon and their data base of gun parts purchasers...to go along with their data base of every other thing they send you?

Ever purchase a 80% lower? A jig? did you use that credit card? Maybe your Pay Pal.... common be realistic.

Bottom line....it's not even a valid argument that a "permit" to purchase a gun is really any kind of problem in regards to the basic concept. We need to scrap the entire system as it is today and take steps to putting it back they way it should have been from the beginning. Before they take the above mentioned lists and actually remove your rights in practical reality.

I myself would rather apply for a gun buying permit (I did 12 years ago) which assures me that right without question... than to alert the ATF to every single purchase with a new background check each time, Just wait tell they start denying background checks via computer because they cross referenced your wallgreeen script history and decided you can't have a weapon.... it's coming.

My argument is and always will be, gun owners who stand up, show responsibility and create the rules/laws/policies are the gun owners that promote the sec amendment. We can under our constitution create safe guards/checks and balances without restricting our rights in practiced reality for law abiding citizens. What we can not do is preach a ideal that is already long lost that we should be able to purchase said weapons with no knowledge of our government.

In addition our government isn't the threat anyway in my opinion. Those clowns can't agree on anything, execute anything, or even control their own selves in well documented history. And regardless of the problems we citizens often encounter regarding our "rights" with the government....they are largely not the issue.

The constitution does't apply to big business in case you haven't noticed. You might consider worrying about that very real issue.... because that's where your rights are eroding in day to day reality.
Norm

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Offline JR

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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #66 on: March 06, 2018, 01:08:51 PM »
Well Norm, when you do post you NORMALLY hit the nail on the head.

Yep, they know who we all are, somehow. I remember going on calls and we could ref. what weapons are registered to the call

One off the good things is they will never get them all no mater how hard they try. Of course that would make many a citizen a criminal but whats new?
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #67 on: March 06, 2018, 01:47:29 PM »
Norm not disagreeing on factual premise but I won?t acquiesce to a permit for firearms purchase until voter ID is implemented, a Wall is built on our southern border, and 4473 violators are prosecuted.


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Offline JR

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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #68 on: March 06, 2018, 05:56:35 PM »
I agree Charles. Voter ID (which is law in 34 states) and the wall.

Getting them to follow the law is a big issue, 4473 is just the tip of it.
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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #69 on: March 06, 2018, 06:03:39 PM »
TRN..... Your points are well understood. Especially the voter ID point.

I feel the states are the ones we really need to get on board with the voter ID issue especially. Here we have that and it works very simply. Register to vote, which requires proof of address, two forms of ID and you can vote. Neb doesn't give you a DL unless you can prove citizenship. They also don't allow voting unless you can prove the same.

The fed form 4473... I assume you mean violators as those that do not disclose or flat lie on their forms? They do enforce that but yes agreed, not near to the level they should. They should also shut down stores/dealers that do not have them properly filled out and still sold a weapon.

Our "hand gun purchase permit" is largely a form 4473 in effect. It asks the same basic questions, and the concept is rather simple. If your local Sheriff's office does not find a "issue" that a records search turns up, then your permit is issued in prompt order. So they check for a felony, domestic battery, and all such questions. If your denied a permit, you can apply for a review if you feel it's in error.

I feel what largely makes this work rather well is anyone who has such "convictions" just doesn't apply, unless dense. They also then do not buy a handgun. 

The gun dealer can be assured then to the best of his knowledge the individual who had said permit isn't hiding anything on his or her  4473. No ATF "call" to "check" is then required.

If you are convicted of a felony/battery etc while in possession of this permit, you are required to surrender it. The only way you can buy a handgun without said permit is if you have a current carry permit.

How this works in reality is this. I can buy a handgun every day and other than the form 4473 sitting in some file cabinet in the gun shop, the "government" doesn't have any knowledge of it at all.

I feel if we implemented the same concept for long guns with a capacity of over 5 rounds it would cause very little actual problem, the purchase would still be "unknown" except for said filed 4473, and we have now improved the system which may help. Just lying on a 4473 becomes much more unlikely.

In the case of the Florida School deal, it would have prevented the purchase of the weapon used by that individual. He may have gotten a weapon illegally...but that as you said earlier, is on the local PD and such regarding their clear lack of give a crap. That's not a weapons issue or a rights issue, that's law enforcement not doing their job issue.

Just my two cents worth....
Norm

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Offline JR

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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #70 on: March 06, 2018, 06:17:06 PM »
Not finding it now but many states require a copy of this form is sent to that states DOJ. I know they do it in Kali and a few others, but it is per state not a fed law.

But I would disagree on the feds not knowing as they know EVERYTIME a search is done on NCIS, by who and for who.
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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #71 on: March 06, 2018, 06:56:37 PM »
Thanks Norm.  Good discussion.  My general angst is we have numerous laws that are not enforced and before I agree to more laws we need to make sure the ones we have are being effectively administered.

Why has the story of the Air Force not reporting the domestic battery for the church shooter in Texas just faded away?  That would have DQd him had it been reported, as it should have.

Why the nut case in FL not taken into custody for terroristic threats when he said he wanted to be a professional school shooter?  So many signs were ignored.  And yeah with his mom's 800k inheritance I'm pretty sure he'd have gotten one black market.

Too many politicians equate passing laws with making a difference.  Nothing could be further from the truth.

Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #72 on: March 06, 2018, 09:13:57 PM »
I agree, enforcement should be considerably reviewed AND improved. It's time gun owners impact this issue to this exact point/end goal.

Jr... the NCIS checks are done by the FBI... any guess why they often fail to be of much use? The FBI was aware of this latest shooters desire to be a school shooter... but he passed THEIR background check. If the local Sheriff was the POC initially in purchasing that weapon..would it have been sold? Hard saying...but there is room for improvement.


 


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Offline JR

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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #73 on: March 06, 2018, 11:12:51 PM »
All we need is to follow the laws we have as said.

From what I am hearing, the Florida school district was under a program called "promise". The head of the district is from Chicago and guess who he has ties with, BHO.

Basically it lets the school deal with almost everything in house leaving LE out of the picture unless it is a major issue. Theft up to $300, vandalism to $1000 and even battery. Teachers aren't told of the problems, kids are shuffled school to school as they get in trouble.

As for the NCIS system, like any data base, garbage in, garbage out. I know I used to have full access to the system, that all changed around the early 90's. You needed a reason to use it and it was tracked.

Anyhoo, we sure don't need more laws. Banning bumpstocks to ammo won't change a thing. Heck you can build an AR for under $500 now or buy one.

On another note, I want to see what Sessions says tomorrow about "sanctuary" states and cities. We just had a local mayor (oakland-female) who told the public about raids in the area. Says to the Fads, come and arrest me! Love to see her locked up or at least drug into a court to answer somehow.

Sounds like this sheriff is a real piece to. He is passing the buck and saying how great he is. Sounds like the deputies were ordered not to go in as the killing was going on.
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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #74 on: March 07, 2018, 07:40:11 AM »
All that said, I do think anything that allows a high cyclic rate needs to be regulated. Not necessarily banned but stamped like a FA weapon.


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Offline Bear9350

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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #75 on: March 07, 2018, 08:42:27 AM »
This speech aligns pretty well with how I feel on the topic.  I don't necessarily have a problem with some of the proposed solutions.  The issue comes when the inevitably don't work.  Simply put, no matter what laws are enacted criminals will still be able to attain firearms and use them for unlawful purposed.  I personally see no need for a bump fire stock.  But when that doesn't fix the problem what is going on the table next?  No matter what the "gun control" looks like, criminals are still criminals and will find ways to illegally attain firearms and use them in an unlawful manner.

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2018/03/04/republicans-harsh-truth-gun-violence-america-prompts-democrats-walk-outrage-speech-goes-viral-609634?utm_sourc

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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #76 on: March 07, 2018, 09:13:54 AM »
Saw that last night, guy is spot on.
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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #77 on: March 07, 2018, 09:27:14 AM »
All that said, I do think anything that allows a high cyclic rate needs to be regulated. Not necessarily banned but stamped like a FA weapon.


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Here?s some numbers, about those weapons and more laws.
https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=233077

At the end of the day us being ?more responsible? gun owners with ?more laws? or ?different ones? really isn?t going to make a major impact on any real number. That is a fact, so why would I submit to more crap laws that don?t work or are not enforced? I won?t, plain and simple.

Talk to your blue in the face and it won?t chenge my opinion. Adding more laws won?t fix the moral decay in our society. Regardless of how many databases I am in currently (quite a few by my simple math btw) it really doesn?t change things for me either. Until someone gets the nutsack to come start confiscating from all these lists debating which law or system is better is nothing but a pile of steer crap. My 2 cents, have a lovely day everyone!
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #78 on: March 07, 2018, 10:06:39 AM »
How do you get blue in the face anyway?

Always wondered about that

I've seen blue lips flying at very high altitudes (20,000 feet) with no oxygen, but that was just blue lips. No blue face...

#Hashtag: Things pilots think about, things that don't matter, old wives tales, thinks Shawn says in his sleep
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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #79 on: March 07, 2018, 10:09:30 AM »
 :knucklehead:
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #80 on: March 07, 2018, 01:38:52 PM »
Adding more laws won?t fix the moral decay in our society.

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Offline JR

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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #81 on: March 07, 2018, 04:52:00 PM »
Adding more laws won?t fix the moral decay in our society.

 :likebutton:

Must agree  :likebutton:
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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #82 on: March 08, 2018, 11:50:02 AM »
Funny deal Shawn... we pretty much agree.

Laws won't fix mass shootings (correct) Some well thought out rules, may prevent some...if enforced... (debatable) As I see it, the laws are coming, regardless. That's what a society that's morally decayed does. They make stupid laws to replace common sense and moral values. Study history....this is quite clear, and factually what has always happened.

So...the laws will come, which side do we want to be on? Do we want to be Morally valued/responsible to see/call out... there is a issue, and in some areas we as gun owners can bring forth more common sense, responsibility and do what we can to make sure we have set a standard? Or we will be dictated to how we shall live by that very decay we have discussed? It's not just about laws new or old.. it's about the big picture.

Lets face it... if society was "healthy" that Sheriff, much the school administration, and some FED's, and who knows who else would be unemployed, and likely in a few cases, detained and held responsible. As most are, this was preventable on many levels of obvious reality. Your right, society failed... I just don't buy into the logic that we as gun owners don't hold some of that responsibility.

We can do better and not infringe our rights.  We can as a HUGE part of this country's citizens say we will not tolerate this decay...we will do WHAT it takes to put a stop to this. The "what" regarding laws/rules whatever should be OUR rules of said engagement....not some politician or professor or media personality. Our Ideas offered, vetted against OUR constitution, assuring no one gives up rights. But towards a goal of doing our part... to PROTECT our rights.

Once that has been established....maybe society will see the REAL issue. Some of that decay falls at the feet of gun owners who can't seem to distinguish between the right to bare arms.... and the convenience of bearing arms.

If I bitch slapped every person I saw with a AR15 at the range who has ZERO clue how to handle that weapon (likely any other weapon also) and confiscated said weapon, I'd own a few hundred AR's. We have all seen it, we all know that's true, and maybe we should establish exactly what should be done about it?   

These "shooters" by default, despite our wishes, are gun owners. Are we policing our ranks to the best of our abilities on ALL levels?

Obviously we are not...











Norm

Are you a prepper?  "No, whats a prepper? I am just a mildly OCD farmer"

Offline Bob/OlallaWa

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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #83 on: March 08, 2018, 03:52:58 PM »

Funny deal Shawn... we pretty much agree.

Laws won't fix mass shootings (correct) Some well thought out rules, may prevent some...if enforced... (debatable) As I see it, the laws are coming, regardless. That's what a society that's morally decayed does. They make stupid laws to replace common sense and moral values. Study history....this is quite clear, and factually what has always happened.

So...the laws will come, which side do we want to be on? Do we want to be Morally valued/responsible to see/call out... there is a issue, and in some areas we as gun owners can bring forth more common sense, responsibility and do what we can to make sure we have set a standard? Or we will be dictated to how we shall live by that very decay we have discussed? It's not just about laws new or old.. it's about the big picture.

Lets face it... if society was "healthy" that Sheriff, much the school administration, and some FED's, and who knows who else would be unemployed, and likely in a few cases, detained and held responsible. As most are, this was preventable on many levels of obvious reality. Your right, society failed... I just don't buy into the logic that we as gun owners don't hold some of that responsibility.

We can do better and not infringe our rights.  We can as a HUGE part of this country's citizens say we will not tolerate this decay...we will do WHAT it takes to put a stop to this. The "what" regarding laws/rules whatever should be OUR rules of said engagement....not some politician or professor or media personality. Our Ideas offered, vetted against OUR constitution, assuring no one gives up rights. But towards a goal of doing our part... to PROTECT our rights.

Once that has been established....maybe society will see the REAL issue. Some of that decay falls at the feet of gun owners who can't seem to distinguish between the right to bare arms.... and the convenience of bearing arms.

If I bitch slapped every person I saw with a AR15 at the range who has ZERO clue how to handle that weapon (likely any other weapon also) and confiscated said weapon, I'd own a few hundred AR's. We have all seen it, we all know that's true, and maybe we should establish exactly what should be done about it?   

These "shooters" by default, despite our wishes, are gun owners. Are we policing our ranks to the best of our abilities on ALL levels?

Obviously we are not...


I would not be to quick to try to take my AR away from me. No I don't have the most up to date training but after the fight I just might come out the winner in this fight.

Offline JR

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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #84 on: March 08, 2018, 04:27:56 PM »
Following on that Norm here is Kali we have a basic safety course you have to pass to buy a firearm.

Plus you must be able to store safely. Simple as a cheap safe, which for most of us is common sense anyway.

I for one have no problem with this, but I still have access to a gun or 2 all the time.

Common sense and firearm handling should go hand in hand. But like many things today, common sense is lacking.
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Online OldKooT

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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #85 on: March 08, 2018, 04:54:48 PM »
Jr... I think if we were brutally honest, go back a few decades, gun "handling" and responsibility was likely taught at home by a Father or Grandfather. This was that "fire arms safety" course they have today in Cali.

I am sure country wide this is slowly eroded by separated families and the increase in single parent families. It's not just firearms either.

Last night our community lost a 18 and a 19 year old  in a gravel road T bone collision. Another 19 year old hit them in his Dodge 3/4 ton when they ran a stop sign in a Taurus. An officer at the scene said they must have all 3 had their eyes closed. He couldn't understand how that actually even happened if they were paying attention at all...I rolled through a gravel road stop sign when I was 12, my grandfather about beat me on the spot. I remember his words...You NEVER DO THAT BOY, EVER, you could kill someone. I don't care what you THINK ... NEVER you understand? LoL I can still hear him and ya know... I stop.



Norm

Are you a prepper?  "No, whats a prepper? I am just a mildly OCD farmer"

Offline JR

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Re: Trump to Sessions “ban bump fire stocks”
« Reply #86 on: March 08, 2018, 06:36:45 PM »
I agree again Norm on gun training. I have drummed this into all my kids.

Plus it is safety in general, using some common sense. That is so lacking these days, just like regular families. Notice how most here have regular families and support systems?

On the stop sign, I had a similar occurrence when on patrol a few years back. I was sitting at a T in the road where I had to turn L/R on a gravel road and saw headlights behind me. They came up fast and I moved over and they drove right by into an open field sliding sideways until they stopped. When I came up to them it was some kids just messing around. No damage and no wants so I cleared em. They were lucky there was no canal or ditch on the other side which very common here.

Retired LEO  Lifetime NRA+  Outcast in Calif

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants"

Thomas Jefferson