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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #150 on: October 11, 2018, 09:34:42 PM »
In the middle of tackling the hard part, plumbing in the attic spaces

It is a bit slow going because of all the blown in insulation, dirty conditions and difficulty moving about.

I also cannot find any 1" PEX foam insulation. I'll need that to wrap the pipe as it is really out in the open albeit under a roof. I can see about how things are going to map out so that's positive at least. But on the flip side of that statement is the actual work of pulling that pex across the attic spaces which is not easy

I'll get some pics up tomorrow, but I am currently tackling the installation of the heat exchanger into the upper air handler.

The prospective builder should note that for a "Normal" house, one would not have to run two circuits like I am having to do here simply because most "Normal" houses do not have two HVAC units.
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Offline Bob/OlallaWa

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #151 on: October 11, 2018, 10:46:35 PM »
You could cut insulation batts into strips and use zip ties to hold it against the Pex pipe. Is the air handler up in the attic or you just running supply across the attic? My air handler in AZ is in the attic. When time to replace it either the ceiling gets cut to remove and replace, or just rebuild the existing unit wear parts which might be the easy way.

Online JR

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #152 on: October 12, 2018, 04:50:26 AM »
Wouldn't 3/4 pipe insulation fit over the 1 inch about right?
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #153 on: October 12, 2018, 09:26:35 AM »
You could cut insulation batts into strips and use zip ties to hold it against the Pex pipe. Is the air handler up in the attic or you just running supply across the attic? My air handler in AZ is in the attic. When time to replace it either the ceiling gets cut to remove and replace, or just rebuild the existing unit wear parts which might be the easy way.
I plan to use the poly foam either 1/2" or 3/4" thickness

And no, I do not believe the 3/4" will encapsulate the 1" PEX. It looks like the correct stuff is 1 1/8" ID
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #154 on: October 13, 2018, 04:31:57 PM »
Working on the upstairs heat exchanger installation, I prefitted some sections of PEX with 90 degree fittings
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #155 on: October 13, 2018, 04:33:20 PM »
This area is much more confined than the wide open lower unit was to work around.

But it has the attic access right there, so that is a big plus
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #156 on: October 13, 2018, 04:35:19 PM »
I started by using a hole saw to make my holes, then screwed a hardwood board over the holes, then redrilled them from above. The purpose of that is to create a strong ceiling structure that will not impinge the drywall sheets
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #157 on: October 13, 2018, 04:37:50 PM »
The roof cavity is a dust place filled with insulation. I mounted a 2 X 6 between two roof trusses, then drilled holes through the board then slipped the PEX lead through the 2X6, then through the ceiling board to create a vibration free, strong installation
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #158 on: October 13, 2018, 04:39:27 PM »
Next up I prepped the 18" X 20" heat exchanger with the proper fittings

It will be mounted into the area below the "A" coil
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #159 on: October 13, 2018, 04:41:04 PM »
Having selected my spot, I marked it out, then cut my H-slot, then bent back the tabs
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #160 on: October 13, 2018, 04:43:21 PM »
Now the idea here is to create a shelf from the folded out tabs, but in this case, they interfered with the flange on the HE so I cut them back, and wrapped the cut out with 100mph tape to prevent cuts (On ME!!)
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #161 on: October 13, 2018, 04:44:53 PM »
Then I created a ledge on either side with some aluminum angle that is pop riveted to the plenum walls
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #162 on: October 13, 2018, 04:45:54 PM »
That provided a perfect shelf for the HE to rest on, so I installed that next
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #163 on: October 13, 2018, 04:47:16 PM »
...And made the hot water line connections
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #164 on: October 13, 2018, 04:49:01 PM »
Then, after cutting an access into the wall in another room's closet, we pulled the PEX all over the attic cavity
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #165 on: October 13, 2018, 04:52:46 PM »
I had the pre-Rangers cover the lines with some poly foam I picked up at SLOWES

In this secluded cavity of my wandering attic, the lines penetrate the drywall out into the main garage space. This will eventually make you happy.

Why you, you ask?

Because in that now heated garage, many more disinteresting pics will be taken of many more abandoned projects, which will at least entertain for you for the moment
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #166 on: October 13, 2018, 04:54:18 PM »
We managed to run the other end of the lines to the other side of the roof, where they make a turn downward through the soffet to the outside where I will connect to lines close to the boiler
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Online JR

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #167 on: October 13, 2018, 05:18:24 PM »
Getting there pretty nice. I was thinking of building the slide for the exchanger the same way as you posted.

As a thought, have you thought about using quick disconnects on the lines for maintenance? You could secure the lines better and still have access. It is low pressure so the only issue would be flow.
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #168 on: October 13, 2018, 10:34:25 PM »
Getting there pretty nice. I was thinking of building the slide for the exchanger the same way as you posted.

As a thought, have you thought about using quick disconnects on the lines for maintenance? You could secure the lines better and still have access. It is low pressure so the only issue would be flow.
I did JR
But the heat exchangers shouldn't have to be looked out for the next ten years. I will however pull the hot water heater and clean annually, but my plan there is to just release the stainless clamp to disconnect the lines, then reclamp them back on afterward. Every once in awhile, I'll cut 1/2" off the end of the line to get to fresh PEX to get a good seal when reclamping.
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Offline KensAuto

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #169 on: October 13, 2018, 11:14:17 PM »
Then I created a ledge on either side with some aluminum angle that is pop riveted to the plenum walls
Surprised JR didn't ask you why your heater looked like it once had 30 gallons of water in it.
(I assume the drain plugged up at one time? condensation?)
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Online JR

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #170 on: October 13, 2018, 11:38:55 PM »
Surprised JR didn't ask you why your heater looked like it once had 30 gallons of water in it.
(I assume the drain plugged up at one time? condensation?)

I saw that but forgot to ask,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #171 on: October 14, 2018, 06:16:24 PM »
Then I created a ledge on either side with some aluminum angle that is pop riveted to the plenum walls
Surprised JR didn't ask you why your heater looked like it once had 30 gallons of water in it.
(I assume the drain plugged up at one time? condensation?)
Korrekt!

So most of the summer I kept hearing water dripping, when it was quiet

So one day I investigated and was shocked to find that much standing water.

I drilled a quick 3/8" hole in the bottom and solved the problem

Can you believe that!
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Online dave945

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #172 on: October 14, 2018, 07:15:09 PM »
That?s a lot of water.

When are you expecting to fire up the boiler?  I built fires in the fireplaces last night, but you have to keep those fed. The idea of the boiler is very tempting, I had looked at them before but now that we are in the new house even more tempting with electric heat.


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Online JR

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #173 on: October 14, 2018, 07:21:00 PM »
Are going to address that rust before you are done?
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #174 on: October 14, 2018, 07:28:21 PM »
That?s a lot of water.

When are you expecting to fire up the boiler?  I built fires in the fireplaces last night, but you have to keep those fed. The idea of the boiler is very tempting, I had looked at them before but now that we are in the new house even more tempting with electric heat.


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Dave, I should be burning wood by the end of the month. I am getting closer by the day. Tasks yet to complete:
1. Run circuit to breaker panel
2. Run underground wiring to boiler and wires to the second garage heater
3. Bury the PEX outside lines
4. Construct a PEX/PVC heat pipe to connect to roof
5. Punch a hole in the foundation and connect PEX
6. Attach pumps and plumbing fixtures to back of boiler
7. Fill with water and purge system of air
8. Start heating with dead ash trees! ;-)))

Fueling is a 2X per day exercise 0800/2000
« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 07:29:21 PM by Flyin6 »
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #175 on: October 14, 2018, 07:30:33 PM »
Are going to address that rust before you are done?
I didn't
Wasn't really thinking about it
But
Now
You have me thinking about it...SHould have done something...
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #176 on: October 14, 2018, 07:34:44 PM »
BTW, Folks, talked to Tim and asked if he ever saw any used units. Apparently he does, trade-ins or something like that. THose cost less, just sayin'

Secondly, I mentioned the wide scattering of you Real Men site belongin' peeps. He said he would be willing to meet some half way to deliver. For those in Florida, Texas, and other distant locals. JR, we didn't discuss Kalifornia, but heck you'd have to get permission from the environmental commissar and that would simply be impossible anyway, so no real need to sell into the commune of Kali
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Online JR

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #177 on: October 14, 2018, 07:53:00 PM »
I want to see how this works but it would not work here just for getting the wood all the time.

Seeing the pipe in the attic, will that be supported somehow? A lot of weight there with water in there.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 01:16:49 PM by JR »
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Offline stlaser

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #178 on: October 14, 2018, 09:51:23 PM »
Wait? You?re burying the outside lines now?  :huh:
Unretired, sweeping floor at GLO once again & making coffee.

Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #179 on: October 14, 2018, 10:54:42 PM »
I want to see how this works but it would work here just for getting the wood all the time.

Seeing the pipe in the attic, will that be supported somehow? A lot of weight there with water in there.
Yea, I am screwing hold downs where the pipe crosses truss members. Almost done!
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #180 on: October 16, 2018, 10:08:37 AM »
So we finished installing and wrapping the pipes in the attic spaces and securing them to rafter members with clamps.
We then fashioned a piece of OSB to fit the backside of the big garage wall which will support the PEX so that it doesn't tug at the drywall.

With all that done, next up is the installation of the big garage heater. I plan to hang it so first we installed eye-bolts to the top panel. After removing the screws, the panel underside was accessible. I used Nylon locking nuts on the inside and flange nuts on the top side to lock it all together
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #181 on: October 16, 2018, 10:09:54 AM »
Just like before the unit was built up with soldered on 1" NPT male stubs, then fitted with a brass PEX adapter
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #182 on: October 16, 2018, 10:12:31 AM »
Then I created a base plate made from OSB to catch the various framing members and serve as a strong base. To those I attached 2 X 6 boards with eye bolts screwed into place, and braced all that. Some of that is screwed all the way into the parent framing inside the wall. It is plenty strong
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #183 on: October 16, 2018, 10:13:44 AM »
Not knowing exactly how I would suspend the unit, I started with doubled rubber bungee straps.
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #184 on: October 16, 2018, 10:15:53 AM »
Rubber; because I was thinking of isolating the sounds the heater may make from the bedroom just above.

When we hung the unit, it did not hang level, so I moved the front eye-bolt aft, and it still hung backside low
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #185 on: October 16, 2018, 10:17:35 AM »
Next up I experimented with used trampoline steel springs. The nose up attitude of the unit did not change. At this point, I set the project aside for the evening to give me some "Think time" to sort through this some more.
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #186 on: October 16, 2018, 10:19:15 AM »
Next up is the construction of the outside piping. I'll need to connect these pipes to a vertical transition vicinity the gutter drain piping.
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #187 on: October 16, 2018, 10:24:02 AM »
I think I'll transition the pipe under the soffit to the right, then join it to the down section.

Right now the design of the transition pipe (I am thinking) will be two PEX pipes wrapped in insulation, fitted inside of a PVC pipe that is then filled with poly foam. I'll install 90 degree fittings at the junctures and pray for no leaks. I'll probably have to build the thing up as a single long assembly so that I can later drop it during installation and break it along with something else of value.
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #188 on: October 16, 2018, 10:24:45 AM »
Time to replace this aging appendage of a light. 11 years has killed it!
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #189 on: October 16, 2018, 10:21:06 PM »
OK, time to build that pipe to connect to the soffit.

Here are the parts for this thing I invented:
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #190 on: October 16, 2018, 10:24:03 PM »
The concept of the operation is to use the 3" PVC as a outer case to house the two PEX (inlet/outlet) and insulate the whole thing, then mount it as an assembly to the side of the house

You would be wiser to choose a butt whipping than to tackle trying to stuff this relatively unbendable 1" PEX into a place it does not want to go, which seems to be just about anywhere!
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #191 on: October 16, 2018, 10:27:21 PM »
Its amazing how those three preceding pics make it all seem like it's nothing at all. But those were staged pics after the both of us fought like sumo wrestlers to get that pex stuff into that 90 degree configuration

Next we fitted (Glued) two endcaps to the pipe assembly to finish each end
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #192 on: October 16, 2018, 10:31:06 PM »
The plan was to fill the entire cavity of the 3" PVC and the two PEX pipes with poly foam to add the insulating factor I need because the assembly will be hanging on an outside wall

I drilled a 5/16"hole about every 18" to even out the distribution of the foam, give it a weep hole, and increase the likelihood that I'd drill into the PEX by mistake
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #193 on: October 16, 2018, 10:33:37 PM »
So as I pumped the foam into the cavity, I'd do so until the stuff started to weep from the next hole inline, then repeat the process going downline from end to end. I pumped five cans of the stuff into that cavity and as you can see, got good distribution of the mess crap!
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #194 on: October 16, 2018, 10:35:24 PM »
Over the next hour the stuff got really active and pushed out some pretty big mushrooms for the pup to chew on in the morning.

In fact when I trimmed off the "Mushroom" the stuff continued to expand out of the hole!
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #195 on: October 16, 2018, 10:37:19 PM »
I decided to let that just sit out all night and get to mounting it to the wall tomorrow midday sometime

Mean while I went back to the big garage heater, continuing to experiment on how best to hang it. I tried this criss-cross next before redoing the whole geometry of the suspension system
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #196 on: October 16, 2018, 10:38:59 PM »
^^^ That looked flimsy to me, so I moved the eyebolts outboard, and closer together, then supported the aft of the unit with two additional bungees which made for a very secure mounting that makes me happy.
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #197 on: October 16, 2018, 10:41:43 PM »
Lacking enough 90 degree fittings to completely connect the unit to the supply/drain lines, I did what I could. This PEX system makes for a very clean installation
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #198 on: October 16, 2018, 10:44:46 PM »
Next, I cut into the lines in the basement and installed two full flow brass valves to keep things dry when I pull it down for maintenance
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Wood Fired Boiler Install
« Reply #199 on: October 16, 2018, 10:47:48 PM »
I scored some aluminum duct tape at SLOWES, so I taped in both HE units sealing them well to the cabinets they live in

I think I map tape a piece of bat insulation over the exposed end in time, but for now I am in full court press mode to get the system all designed and hooked up
« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 10:48:27 PM by Flyin6 »
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