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Offline Flyin6

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Offline Bigdave_185

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #701 on: September 09, 2020, 02:29:45 PM »
And what is the purpose of that inside the doors? Rust prevention in the doors?


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Offline JR

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #702 on: September 09, 2020, 02:45:00 PM »
I used this. Regular spray and long nozzle for those hard to reach areas.

https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-internal-frame-coating-14oz-aerosol.html

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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #703 on: September 09, 2020, 04:57:03 PM »
And what is the purpose of that inside the doors? Rust prevention in the doors?


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Yes,
States who use salt
The residue will accumulate inside the pinch weld lower sections of the door.
Keep the doors and rockers and wheel wells flushed, have them sealed with something like this, and make sure they can drain and you won't have any rust.
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #704 on: September 11, 2020, 07:42:54 PM »
Getting closer to being finished with the interior. One rear sear finished and reinstalled, the entire front now complete. Only two door panels and the large rear seat to finish.

No pics

Can't find my camera...

Looked in all the suspect places, under my tires, under the mower, in the trash, out in the lawn, in the pond...and I can't find it. Can't imagine it being anywhere else!
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Offline JR

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #705 on: September 11, 2020, 09:34:43 PM »
Oh come on Don, the phone takes great pics. All I use!

Have you towed the new trailer yet?
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Online dave945

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #706 on: September 11, 2020, 09:59:19 PM »
You probably left the camera inside the dash or under a newly painted red seat.


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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #707 on: September 12, 2020, 03:09:17 PM »
Found it

Never guess where?

On a shelf!

Hidin' in plain sight :facepalm:
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #708 on: September 12, 2020, 03:13:57 PM »
Here's the right rear seat fully installed

And the drivers door panel
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #709 on: September 12, 2020, 03:15:20 PM »
Then I got after the other part of the rear seat
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #710 on: September 12, 2020, 03:16:52 PM »
I pulled the remaining two door panels, then reinstalled the large rear seat section. That is a two man lift.
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #711 on: September 12, 2020, 03:18:28 PM »
I left the rear sear belts their factory color. I now have three different seat belt colors. One is black, one is the color of the seats, Cinnamon, and the rear seat retains the factory look. Now that I see it, I like the factory color the best.
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #712 on: September 12, 2020, 03:20:11 PM »
The door panels got the full treatment. Scrubbing, drying, mineral spirits bath, drying, sanding, light coat of adhesion promoter, then the cinnamon inserts. These need to dry overnight because of the necessary direct tape application to mask off the inserts
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #713 on: September 12, 2020, 03:20:40 PM »
Getting there!
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Offline Farmer Jon

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #714 on: September 13, 2020, 09:32:14 AM »
I love the seats.
Father, husband, farmer, trucker, mechanic, equipment operator, ect

Offline Flyin6

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #715 on: September 13, 2020, 12:41:16 PM »
I love the seats.
Glad you do, I do too

Wife hates them. Says the color is awful

Good!

Means she won't be borrowing my burb!

Ha!
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Offline JR

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #716 on: September 13, 2020, 01:12:10 PM »
Well, she has a new truck, right?
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #717 on: September 13, 2020, 01:33:04 PM »
Well, she has a new truck, right?
Sure does

And I have to say, that Titan V8 is one of the best sorted out vehicles I have ever owned. Truly a luxury car and a truck well blended
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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #718 on: September 14, 2020, 10:48:17 PM »
So, wrapped up the front two thirds of the interior re-do today. I plan to get to the back portion at some future date. I will have to remove that cargo box to do so, and that is a bit more than I want to do at the moment.
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #719 on: September 14, 2020, 10:51:36 PM »
If nothing else the interior got a deep cleaning.

I am happy with the results
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #720 on: September 14, 2020, 10:52:27 PM »
Next, I pulled out the old fan assembly and started trouble shooting that
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #721 on: September 14, 2020, 10:53:33 PM »
The new Dorman replacement unit is identical to stock

And went right in with no fuss at all
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #722 on: September 14, 2020, 11:00:18 PM »
And finally, I trouble shot the fan control unit. I found a wire that was not connected as well as it could be, so that got fixed. Then I observed the fans operate with the engine running. The first time they worked perfectly. The second time a 30 amp fuse blew, so I replaced it.
It blew a second, then a third time.

After that and now on my forth 30 amp mini fuse, I checked all connections and ran the test again. This time I got the system to cycle correctly four different concurrent times. I am wondering why these 30 amp fuses are blowing. If you'll recall, the other stockish chevy system which featured 30 amp breakers were popping like a kettle of pop-corn on movie night. They were anything but reliable.

So what in the heck can be wrong??? I have good connections, I have what I think is a good ground. I have 14 gage wire run as a ground and at the moment I am eyeing that as a possibility. With a ground wire too small (If it actually is) the load wire would have to spike as it loaded up. But, this ground wire is not the same one that existed with the old system, so it may very well not be that either.

Did someone place a curse on my truck by chance?
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Offline Bigdave_185

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #723 on: September 14, 2020, 11:10:51 PM »
Does your ground wire feel hot at all?


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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #724 on: September 14, 2020, 11:19:29 PM »
Does your ground wire feel hot at all?


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Didn't check, but the fuse was darned hot.
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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #725 on: September 15, 2020, 12:04:25 AM »
According to this I think you need 8awg for 30amp.


https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/amps-wire-gauge-d_730.html
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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #726 on: September 15, 2020, 06:45:17 AM »
It really is length dependent. Other tables show shorter lengths at 12 or 10 gauge although bigger never hurts. It would be a good idea to start with a properly sized clean ground. Make sure connections are cleaned to the metal and secure and then try it again.

If you have an ammeter check to see how many amps it’s pulling. For that test you might make a direct connection to the battery without  the relay.  Ideally you’d have a clamp on induction ammeter with peak hold but you can make due with a multimeter.


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Offline Sammconn

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #727 on: September 15, 2020, 10:24:00 AM »
In a vehicle they’ll put 12 all day for 30 amps.
10 would be better.
Like others have said get a good clean connection.
The 14 is definitely too small for the sake of having a fire.
Find the actual load also.
You may need to go to #8 and 40amp fuses if it’s actually seeing 30.
The motor start draw will be at the root of the trips.
I just don't want to wind up missing a digit or limb.  I can sometimes get in a hurry to get results.
Sam

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #728 on: September 15, 2020, 11:06:19 AM »
In a vehicle they’ll put 12 all day for 30 amps.
10 would be better.
Like others have said get a good clean connection.
The 14 is definitely too small for the sake of having a fire.
Find the actual load also.
You may need to go to #8 and 40amp fuses if it’s actually seeing 30.
The motor start draw will be at the root of the trips.

Thanks all!

Good sound advice

Definitely the motor start. I witnessed the second motor just starting and the fuse went Ka-pow!

Upsizing the wire in a few minutes.
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Offline JR

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #729 on: September 15, 2020, 01:48:04 PM »
Check the draw on the fans when running and when they start. Could be a huge spike.
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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #730 on: September 16, 2020, 08:43:20 AM »
When AC motors start they pull double their running amps (LRA rating or locked rotor amps listed on the motors label ). I have to imagine the inrush of current for DC is also big.


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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #731 on: September 16, 2020, 11:53:17 AM »
OK, so I have been studying this fan issue.

I think we have established the need for a more robust ground

Looking further, I have found no GM fans requiring more than 30 amps of circuit protection, so I feel I am good there.

Some of these fans will draw a ton of amperage, especially if both are switched on at the same time. But this Davis-Craig system provides for a 10 second delay to start the second fan.

What I did discover is that there are slow blow fuses that are designed to handle amperage draws beyond their design limit for a short period of time and were created to fuse link electric motors that require a large amp draw for starting.

They do not come in mini-fuse configuration, so I ordered two maxi-fuse holders and a pack of the 30 amp slow burn fuses. I'll solder them in when they get here.

Hopefully this will put to bed once and for all this pesky cooling fan issue.
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Offline JR

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #732 on: September 16, 2020, 01:41:02 PM »
Besides slow blow fuses a soft start option might help to.
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Offline Bigdave_185

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #733 on: September 16, 2020, 05:21:22 PM »
Just dump the fuse and hard wire it. 


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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #734 on: September 16, 2020, 07:33:58 PM »
JR may be on to something. A capacitor wired into the circuit would provide surge capacity post fuse. We used to do that on brake light circuits and other high draw circuits in old cars to keep the amplified auto noise to a minimum.


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Offline KensAuto

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #735 on: September 16, 2020, 10:54:20 PM »
That should be 30a fuse (Maxi) for each fan, minimum 12g per fan (2-12g grounds, 2-12g powers)
« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 10:54:52 PM by KensAuto »
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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #736 on: September 16, 2020, 11:02:16 PM »
^^^Scratch that. Just realized that if you're using an oem style, I would assume you ordered one for a '07+new body style. Those things eat up the amps....they run on 40amp fuses, which means 40amp relays as well.

I'm going to try and link a schematic but may not work
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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #737 on: September 17, 2020, 07:56:48 AM »
That’s a messy diagram


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Offline akcooper9

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #738 on: September 17, 2020, 09:49:47 AM »
If you have the fans install and powered 'like' stock efan vehciles both fans should come on at the same one. There should be two speeds (Low and High)

Here is the fan harness I use and have zero issues with: https://www.bp-automotive.com/product/1999-2006-gm-trucksuv-fan-harness/

The PCM should do all of the 'trigger' work for turning the fans on and off etc

Offline Flyin6

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #739 on: September 17, 2020, 10:21:47 AM »
That should be 30a fuse (Maxi) for each fan, minimum 12g per fan (2-12g grounds, 2-12g powers)
Copy that, two maxi slow-blow 30 amp fuse/holders inbound
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #740 on: September 17, 2020, 10:23:31 AM »
^^^Scratch that. Just realized that if you're using an oem style, I would assume you ordered one for a '07+new body style. Those things eat up the amps....they run on 40amp fuses, which means 40amp relays as well.

I'm going to try and link a schematic but may not work
No, not the 07 and newer. Dorman replacement for the 2003 or 04...Whichever year the electric fans started. And to fit the large 34" radiator
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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #741 on: September 17, 2020, 10:26:03 AM »
Sorry, don't remember any having electric fans until the NBS. Maybe it was all the whiskey.
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #742 on: September 17, 2020, 10:28:11 AM »
If you have the fans install and powered 'like' stock efan vehciles both fans should come on at the same one. There should be two speeds (Low and High)

Here is the fan harness I use and have zero issues with: https://www.bp-automotive.com/product/1999-2006-gm-trucksuv-fan-harness/

The PCM should do all of the 'trigger' work for turning the fans on and off etc
...I don't

But that is one high quality looking harness right there!

I canned the factory setup as it proved to be unreliable
I have a Davis-Craig (Made in Australia) fan controller.

Runs two fans

Turns on first fan at target temperature

Delays 10 sec

Turns on second fan after delay

Runs until engine cools to 5F below target temp

Has two independent circuits

Each has its own 30 amp fuse, big-ole-fat wires
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 10:33:06 AM by Flyin6 »
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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #743 on: September 17, 2020, 10:30:00 AM »
Sorry, don't remember any having electric fans until the NBS. Maybe it was all the whiskey.
I actually think the 02 was the last year for the clutch fan. 03 and later were electric.

The guys who sell the salvaged GM fans to retrofit earlier vehicles all use 30 amp fuses or circuit breakers
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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #744 on: September 17, 2020, 10:33:59 AM »
Maybe 1/2 tons w/5.3...but pretty sure all the h/d 6.0 kept clutches until 07.
Guess it doesn't matter, you have them now!

Just putting this here for future reference. ('05-up electric on 1500s)
Not important, but notice how the low speed works on the factory setup. They run power through the fans in series to drop the voltage in half. Hence the 3 relays.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 10:51:45 AM by KensAuto »
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Offline Sammconn

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #745 on: September 17, 2020, 12:32:43 PM »
It also shows them 40 amp fused as well
I just don't want to wind up missing a digit or limb.  I can sometimes get in a hurry to get results.
Sam

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #746 on: September 17, 2020, 01:07:39 PM »
I know my lbz had a clutch
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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #747 on: September 17, 2020, 01:46:16 PM »
My 06 1500HD with the 6.0 had a regular fan, so does my LBZ.
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Offline Bigdave_185

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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #748 on: September 17, 2020, 09:46:19 PM »
My 04 2500 6.0 had a fan


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Re: Topic: 2002 Suburban 2500 build thread, Part 4
« Reply #749 on: Today at 12:19:16 AM »
Don, you sure that Aussie controller is spinning them in the right direction and not backwards?


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