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Offline Flyin6

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Purchasing bullion
« on: February 02, 2015, 12:56:18 PM »
Ok, here we go.

I just ordered 4 ounces of gold from JM Bullion

This is a vetting order to establish this as a credible business and safe technique to obtain bullion.

I purchased the gold at just above spot price $1277 spot vs $1298, my cost. That's great if everything goes through OK.

In the past I have paid a much higher premium for the shiny stuff, but buying on line is something I have often thought about.

I chose a bank wire as the purchase technique, so I am expecting an email from them with the bank address to get that done next.

Basically, I am going to track this process to vet it for members here and for my own future purchases

We'll see...
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Offline Dawg25385

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2015, 01:28:38 PM »
coins of 1 oz each i assume?

We got a bunch of silver for our wedding, and it's nice having it in the safe. My brother in law deals with Northwest Territorial Mint, and is always recommending them FWIW. we're thinking of adding more non fiat as well, but until the house is built and closed, not going to make any major financial decisions.

thanks for sharing, and keep us updated on how it goes
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2015, 06:00:47 PM »
coins of 1 oz each i assume?

We got a bunch of silver for our wedding, and it's nice having it in the safe. My brother in law deals with Northwest Territorial Mint, and is always recommending them FWIW. we're thinking of adding more non fiat as well, but until the house is built and closed, not going to make any major financial decisions.

thanks for sharing, and keep us updated on how it goes
I have purchased silver for the past few years and have accumulated some

I'm now buying the gold bars from The Canadian mint and various other manufacturers, mostly Credit Suisse (The Swiss national bank)

So far the process is exactly as they briefed
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2015, 06:28:04 PM »
I chose to wire the payment from my bank which I did this morning

When I returned home, I was in receipt of an email from JM Bullion saying that they had received the money and my order was paid in full

They went further to say they would be shipping the order in 2 business days

So we'll continue to monitor and see how this whole process ends up

FYI
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2015, 08:48:18 PM »
OK, same day still, and I just got an email from them with shipping information.

So I ordered yesterday, wired the money this morning, and they shipped it this afternoon out of Irvine Ca.

Not bad...

Ground UPS should take 5 days I would think.
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Offline Dawg25385

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2015, 11:11:45 PM »
Not too shabby, off to a great start!
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2015, 08:05:48 AM »
They (JM Bullion) require you to establish a relationship with them over a couple months to see "How things go."  If it is all good, then they will allow you to purchase using E checks there after.

I think for now on, I am going to tithe my first 10%, then buy bullion with the next 10%

Note on Gold, it does not go up in value!

Everything else actually goes down in value, but gold stays constant.

I know I have said this before, not some old guy ramblings, but just driving home the point to people that matter (You!)

In 1920 one ounce of gold would purchase a fine men's suit...a half ounce would buy a pretty good one.
Today, an ounce of gold will purchase a fine men's suit.
So no real change there, right?

Back in 1920 the cost of that suit hovered around $50 or so. Today the cost is in the $1200 ish range

So what changed? Gold still buys exactly the same thing, but it takes 24 times more money (dollars) to buy that same suit.

Lesson complete...
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2015, 10:14:22 AM »
OK, order complete!

Here is the physical Gold in hand in my casa.

The whole process only took a few days for JM Bullion to complete.

I continued the test with a follow up order a couple days later to see if that process completed the same as this one did, thus establishing a pattern of sorts.

But I'd have to give them excellent marks thus far for the process

The box was insured, of course, had to be signed for and arrives in a non descript box. Can't beat that!
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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2015, 11:34:18 AM »
They messed up your first order, it was supposed to show up in Az.
Man, what's wrong with those people!
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2015, 12:11:17 PM »
They messed up your first order, it was supposed to show up in Az.
Man, what's wrong with those people!
Hmmm, shipping problem perhaps??

I'll have to get with em'  ;-))
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Offline Dawg25385

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2015, 02:15:01 PM »
Purty...
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Offline cudakidd53

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Gold & Silver Cheap
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2015, 07:45:19 AM »
As of this posting, Gold below $1170 and Silver below $16 per ounce- if you've been thinking of buying, this is lowest point in quite awhile and actually makes no sense given the conditions in the world!  ???

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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2015, 09:26:16 AM »
As of this posting, Gold below $1170 and Silver below $16 per ounce- if you've been thinking of buying, this is lowest point in quite awhile and actually makes no sense given the conditions in the world!  ???


I can explain why it makes no sense...Ready?

The dollar is worthless for the most part. It can still buy you a big mac, but the nation now has more debt than it has actual stuff to back it up. Everything you and I and everyone make no longer adds up to what we owe, so if the dollar is a fraction of what the US is worth, then it is actually a debt note. It represents $1 of debt.

So how can a debt note buy a big mac? Because the federal government says it can. The federal government is broke, really has no n=money at all, but what we do have is a pretty big land mass called the United States. We have lots of military with nuclear bombs, planes and missiles to carry them, air craft carriers, tanks and folks like Bobby who can put a hurtin' on you in a New York minute!
We have power, uncontested power for the most part although we have someone knockin' on the door (China) and a wanna-be (Russia).
China's economy is contracting. It is doing so because the folks here mostly and there are makng less money and therefore spending less, which is driving down manufacturing and inventory which slows down the factories, lays off workers and so forth.
Almost every nation on earth (Switzerland is a notable exception) is in debt up to it's bloated eyeballs. Mostly because of looming social issues and laziness. The social instrument is cutting away at everything good in productive the world over and creating the need for more and more cash all taxed from a dwindling working, well, "taxable" class of folks like you and I.
So everyone is borrowing...Everyone. No body is paying back what they owe and just continue to borrow money to pay back the debt interest!
Crazy, right? Well, it works with crazy. With you and I we see a crashed system because we are thinking people. We are maybe 5% of the population. The other 95% just knows they can still wait for their income tax check and still buy a big mac and a coke, so life's good. The Federal Reserve says, "Hey, nobody's looking and paper is cheap, let's print up some more money, then sell it to the Europeans and the Chinese, and they do. daily. by the truckload!

So in a world wide system of failing fiat money systems the best of the worst is the US Dollar. I guess those aircraft carriers and Marines and tanks count for something because people still look to us as the best place to park their wealth and bet on the future with. For that reason the dollar is gaining in popularity in an accelerating fashion. We have been on a 4 month ride where the dollar has taken off. It is taking off because Greece and a few other nations are about to declare bankruptcy and wipe away their debt. Their nations will fall into anarchy and civil unrest, but, hey that stuff happens. So with more and more folks devaluing their money, the dollar is being shoved northward. And since the dollar is now the be all in currency, Gold is declining against it as well.

What the truth is, is that this is the end. We are now in the downward spiral toward destruction of the world monetary system. We might well be headed for the one world currency as our bible predicts in a way. The more the dollar goes up, it really just means everything else is going down.

Good right, I mean the dollar is getting stronger, correct??? Not so fast Buckwheat! When the economies of the world crash, there are no longer anyone or anywhere for us to sell our Chevies and big macs to, so we are left with only ourselves and likely Canada. Not enough customers so we suffer a massive backward leap in production and factories everywhere close and well, that's the ball game.

That's when the world will go to tangible stuff. My Gold may weigh 2 pounds and have been worth $40000 a year ago. If gold goes down to $1000 an ounce or less I'll be worth less against the marker of the moment, but through it all, I will still have 2 pounds of gold. That in a couple thousand ounces of silver and a bunch of land which I will still be able to stand on and hold in my hands.

What do you think Gold will be worth then? Well, it's hard to say, but I'm betting I can buy a cow with a small corner of that gold bar of mine. When things get out of the melt down stage, I can probably buy my neighbor's farm and hire some folks... The experts say Gold will rapidly double in value as in 24 hours, then rise to around $5000 an ounce which made for a 5 time increase in my wealth, but there is another factor no one considers. Out of a crowd of a hundred, I will likely be the only one having any gold, so even though my ounce of gold might only be worth $5000, I might be able to buy 10 acres of my neighbors land simply because they will be desperate. I believe I will have many multiples in simple leveraging power with something like gold or silver.

The dollar is going down the drain. It only gets to follow everything that preceded it with the first flush...
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Offline cudakidd53

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2015, 04:40:49 PM »
Yep, made total sense when I read that this morning!  Now if I can get over this stinking hurdle that Land of Stinkin has put in the path of my Ultimate IRA, I'd be sitting easier than I am this evening..........gotta love the number one State in the Union; if starting at the bottom! >:(
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Offline cruizng

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2015, 05:28:04 PM »
The whole banking industry was always a black hole for me several years back. I started investing in stocks. I had the normal 401K's from the companies I worked for.

It was in 2007 - 2008 that I really wanted to understand what was going on. I still have a lot to learn but I think that I understand the fundamentals and it isn't good for us 99%ers.

Sad to say the stock market it rigged. Banking is rigged. One of my favorite books was "The Wed of Debt" by Ellen Brown. She lays out very simply where we have come from and where we are going. The unique thing about her is there is a great option. Hopefully she will continue to gain traction. Her book can be found here or Amazon.

http://www.webofdebt.com/

There is also a great read about the money supply published here. I'm still a little fuzzy on M1, M2, and M3 money but trying to get there. http://lisgi1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu/~makse/Modern_Money_Mechanics.pdf

So basically most all Americans have been enticed to put their hard earned dollars into 401K and IRA's that all hinge on the "rigged" stock market. (all for a pre tax benefit) It can be taken at anytime. Who was first in line during the 2008 bailout. The big banks. They have now even created a bail in mechanism so if it ever happens again they don't need a government bailout. They will just bail in. Basically if you have any money deposited in any institution, even a FDIC one, they can capture your cash / savings / investments / and basically convert it into "stock" in their company / bank / mutual fund / etc... Can you buy groceries with stock that they don't allow you to convert? Also can you imagine how much that stock will drop in price once that calamity occurs? You can expect a 60 to 80 % haircut right off the bat. Then you might be able to convert your stock to cash. What a deal.

Our US Dollar was once the standard in the world. With Quantitative Easing printing Trillions of dollars our stock (the US dollar) is virtually worthless. Once it gets to a certain point that no one knows when the creditors will come a calling. What does the US have for assets? Land, Natural Resources, etc... do we want to hand over all of that? No. Do you have the confidence in any President or Congressional member after what we have seen over the past 6 years to tell China to pound sand? or would they start handing over our kids wealth? Not a pretty picture. Harry Reid has already primed the pump with all of his China connections. He is not alone.

Will it happen in the next 50 years.. who really knows but it wouldn't hurt to look at a longer horizon and try to save what you can that is untouchable. If nothing happens you can always convert it back and back a Big Mac.

I honestly don't know if it has gotten so much worse or just that I have started paying attention in the past 10 years.
Mike
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2015, 10:20:41 PM »
Good comments, spot on
M1, M2, M3 all a part of fuzzy economics, pay no attention

You touched on a truth. The stock market is rigged. Savvy enough to pull in the monies from the masses only to have it reclaimed before it is withdrawn. The single largest source of capital in America is, you guessed it, personal 401K's and IRA's. Well in excess of a trillion, and actually if it is all counted in, I think something north of 3 trillion.

You think for one second the government, well the privileged in the guberment is ever going to let any of that go? Not in a thousand years. That money will never leave those accounts in mass. That is why I have been saying to get control of your cash with your own 401K trust. Then get it tangible. Buy land, gold, silver, a classic Chevy, a thousand gallons of diesel fuel, three cows an horse and some chickens.

The system is much worse off today than in earlier years. The corruption is likely about the same, but the numbers are much larger and more notably the population is no where as educated, informed, or caring than they were in yesteryear. Slippery slope stuff here...
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Offline Dawg25385

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2015, 03:07:20 PM »
Guys, I am only going to add one thing here... capitalism depends on the abundance of, and willingness for, capital investment. Sure, equity markets are not without risk, and there is a lack of transparency around the inner-workings (particularly the government's role). Bonds are safer (i.e. less volatile) and CD's safer yet (insured). But if everyone were to buy gold and chickens and withdraw totally from financial markets, financing evaporates, and the system doesn't work.

So on one hand, we have to be careful with how we manage our wealth, hedging against risk and potential losses, being diversified and wise, and hiring trusted professionals to help us make decisions. On the other hand, we should be careful in being so contrarian that our collective actions result in a self-fulfilling prophecy.
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Offline cudakidd53

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2015, 06:47:33 AM »
Good points Kyle-

But, when the Government plays fast and loose with cheating the citizenry participating in the Capitalist system; effectively cheating them of the value of fruits of their labors AND taking it away on the back end- isn't the system already an empty shell waiting to crumble?  ::)
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Offline HuskerTrev

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2015, 10:39:38 PM »
I enjoyed reading comments from so many like minded individuals, but I was wondering if Don ever had the chance to work with JM Bullion again? I have purchased silver through silver.com and have been pleased, but am always looking for positive reviews of others.

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Offline cudakidd53

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2015, 07:52:20 AM »
I enjoyed reading comments from so many like minded individuals, but I was wondering if Don ever had the chance to work with JM Bullion again? I have purchased silver through silver.com and have been pleased, but am always looking for positive reviews of others.

Trev- I've made substantial purchases from JM Bullion and I've always had great service, quality of product and fair pricing; lowest that I've found from a reputable outfit.  After you've established a working relationship with them (multiple purchases) they will often kick yup up to a streamlined purchase group, speeding up the purchase timeline.  Best part of JM that I like, is that you get live pricing updates (refresh often to see) and the current price that you lock your order in at, is what you pay!  Shop on-line, 24/7.  Their phone support and question line is US based, so you're not talking to Himadre who introduces herself as "Jill" saying, "how may I hellllp djou" and needing to place you on hold to answer your questions!  Free, insured and tracked shipping included & their tracking is accurate.  Depending upon quantity and weight, USPS or UPS delivers to your door, signature required.

Don and a few others have also used JM Bullion as well and expressed satisfaction as well- I'll let them relay their experiences.

I will say that based upon current pricing, Gold & Silver appear to be still "on sale" considering the similar message and obvious theme in world news, common sense and Biblical Prophesy.  Too many dissimilar voices are saying the same thing.  Current paper currency and National economies are on the precipice of ruin, to NOT hold physical metals; currency and the kind resting atop some cordite that comes in standardized calibers.
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2015, 08:07:29 AM »
I enjoyed reading comments from so many like minded individuals, but I was wondering if Don ever had the chance to work with JM Bullion again? I have purchased silver through silver.com and have been pleased, but am always looking for positive reviews of others.


I enjoyed reading comments from so many like minded individuals, but I was wondering if Don ever had the chance to work with JM Bullion again? I have purchased silver through silver.com and have been pleased, but am always looking for positive reviews of others.



Yes I have many times now, but mostly gold. I did a small purchase of silver as a vetting/testing purchase and it worked out the same. I am happy with them. Every single sale was handled properly and on every single sale, I got the little box quicker than they estimated
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Offline HuskerTrev

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2015, 10:14:25 AM »
I enjoyed reading comments from so many like minded individuals, but I was wondering if Don ever had the chance to work with JM Bullion again? I have purchased silver through silver.com and have been pleased, but am always looking for positive reviews of others.

Trev- I've made substantial purchases from JM Bullion and I've always had great service, quality of product and fair pricing; lowest that I've found from a reputable outfit.  After you've established a working relationship with them (multiple purchases) they will often kick yup up to a streamlined purchase group, speeding up the purchase timeline.  Best part of JM that I like, is that you get live pricing updates (refresh often to see) and the current price that you lock your order in at, is what you pay!  Shop on-line, 24/7.  Their phone support and question line is US based, so you're not talking to Himadre who introduces herself as "Jill" saying, "how may I hellllp djou" and needing to place you on hold to answer your questions!  Free, insured and tracked shipping included & their tracking is accurate.  Depending upon quantity and weight, USPS or UPS delivers to your door, signature required.

Don and a few others have also used JM Bullion as well and expressed satisfaction as well- I'll let them relay their experiences.

I will say that based upon current pricing, Gold & Silver appear to be still "on sale" considering the similar message and obvious theme in world news, common sense and Biblical Prophesy.  Too many dissimilar voices are saying the same thing.  Current paper currency and National economies are on the precipice of ruin, to NOT hold physical metals; currency and the kind resting atop some cordite that comes in standardized calibers.

I am glad to hear that JM is good company to work with, as I watch the metal prices everyday on my phone with the Kitco app and silver took a nose dive over the last four days. My wife and I call our precious metals "our 401K". After the last crash in 2008, we lost nearly $15000 in investments. I said enough was enough and pulled very last dime out, paid the taxes and penalties and turned it into precious metals. Our thoughts being, if you can't hold it, you don't own it.

We are no where near our goal of having the amount of pms put aside, but we also plan on purchasing some every month from now until we are no longer able to.

I also am a firm believer in holding a fair amount of ballistic wampum also.  ;)


Yes I have many times now, but mostly gold. I did a small purchase of silver as a vetting/testing purchase and it worked out the same. I am happy with them. Every single sale was handled properly and on every single sale, I got the little box quicker than they estimated

I am glad to hear that Don! When I get home from church today, I will be placing an order with them!
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2015, 02:51:58 PM »
Yea, after that crash that started in 07, we took a beating. I lost around $300K. Was going to pay for the house and be done. Now I still have a mortgage!

But with how things are shaping up, if/when the dollar and the markets collapse, with the open mayhem that will ensue, I'm going to the farm assuming I have it to a habitable state. This place will just attract looters and I don't want to stay up all night every night shooting them, I figure I can get more sleep down in the Kentucky outback.

What that all means is that although I technically have a mortgage, when the banks fail I won't have a mortgage, but there won't be a means to pay anyway
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Offline husker77c

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2015, 09:05:06 AM »
I started a topic this morning and didn't even notice this one so I will move my comments here.

Metals took a beating yesterday. Silver was below 15/oz and gold dropped $20/oz. another buying opportunity for those who are able.

In the other thread I was wondering how a person in Greace that owned precious metals would be doing.  Could they sell the metal for euros still or had that avenue somehow been cut off.   Inflation doesn't seem to be an issue there but a lack of cash sure is. I read ATMs are only allowing 60 euros a day withdrawals.

I am also thinking a long the lines that if you can weather a financial collapse with a decent stock of precious metals you can come out like a king on the other side but that's a big if.

While I like gold and do own some I'm sitting at about a 25-1 ratio of silver to gold right now because I feel silver is still the better buy.  Silver is way below the historical gold to silver ratio. Right now it's approx 80-1 while throughout history up until recently it's been around 20-1 so silver "should" be north of $50/ounce. Only problem is it takes pounds of silver to have the same amount of value as ounces gold. My solution to that is I have a pretty large safe.

Texasredneck was wondering how, with China and the rest of the world going down the drain financially yesterday, could metals drop in price when they should be going up. Well metals are manipulated heavily by banks.  Banks can buy and sell gold and silver certificates to make the price do whatever they want.  Essentially the same as the stock market.  They were most likely selling certificates yesterday which drove the price down. The screws people who buy certificates but creates great opportunity for people who aquire physical metal.  And anyone who buys a piece of paper that says you own gold or silver is an idiot but there are lots of people out there who do.  Chase bank is the leader in silver manipulation. They are keeping the price low due to the fact that they have sold more certificates for silver than they have physical to back it up.  If silver went up in price  and people started wanting to sell or acquire physical for their paper they would be in a massive bind. It's all a dog and pony show.

That being said metals could fall even further with all the manipulating but I think it's unlikely they will fall much below where they are now.  They have to keep the game somewhat believeable to keep raping the public with metals and with the markets in general.

Using the same analogy flyin6 used above with silver. In 1964 when a quarter was 90% silver it was worth $.25.  That quarter would buy a gallon of gas.  Today that same 1964 silver quarter is worth about $3.00 which would buy a gallon of gas.


Offline Flyin6

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2015, 10:00:36 AM »
Using the same analogy flyin6 used above with silver. In 1964 when a quarter was 90% silver it was worth $.25.  That quarter would buy a gallon of gas.  Today that same 1964 silver quarter is worth about $3.00 which would buy a gallon of gas.


Perfect!

I couldn't have said it any better.

This example shows why, if you just keep precious metals, you never lose any value or buying power. Dollars won't do that. Stocks are heavily manipulated. I have learned that the whole stock thing is little more than a sophisticated plan to relieve blue collar Americans of their hard earned money. I find it despicable how so many good Americans have payed diligently into so called retirement programs only to arrive 40 years later well below expectations.

There will ALWAYS be a correction, a default by some super big company or bank, a late arriving tax, recession, depression, or out right theft of the majority of people's money.

I became sick of it and purchased things I can see. Gold, silver, farm land, dozers and tractors, 6BT's ammo, guns, stockpiles of food.

I can put my hand on those. The land will not significantly depreciate. It could possibly sustain me. The guns rise in value. The ammo is useful in shooting a deer, protecting my family or barter. Gold and Silver will absolutely soar in value if the big banks fail and maintain value if the banks continue with their world controlling policies. That dozer is 15 tons of steel, will dig a pond or a revetment, and last a very long time, and so forth.

Yes buy precious metals. Yes, get out of IRA's and 401K's and everything else and get your arm actuated hands on what you own and do it soon...or you'll be complaining that the $50 a day you are "Allowed" to withdraw will only buy a dozen eggs, two gallons of gas and a loaf of bread!
« Last Edit: July 08, 2015, 10:04:27 AM by Flyin6 »
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Offline halsey

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2015, 10:21:12 AM »

Add to this the problem of near zero interest. Penalizing savers, rewarding debtors and providing astronomical profit to bankers.
Bullion and other hard assets are the only way.

Offline husker77c

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2015, 10:48:03 AM »
Yep.  I'm 37 years old and I have very little in the way of retirement investments. I have a small pension through the Teamsters union that will continue to grow as long as they don't go bankrupt, which is a very good possibility.

But other than that my metals are all I have as investments. And I am 100% OK with that.  If the charade keeps going the way it is a man will have to work until they are dead anyway or retire and get what?  Maybe $2000/mo social security, maybe.  But I don't see this current economic state as sustainable for very much longer.  I'm not going to put my hard earned money into stocks or bonds just to keep feeding the machine that has created this mess in the first place.  Only to watch half or more of my "wealth" dissapear potentially overnight.

the way I see it is if all these countries, India, China, Russia, even Texas are falling over themselves to get as much gold as they can then they probably know something I don't.   It's like on the highway when you are driving along  and someone ahead of you hits their brakes it might be wise for you to hit yours too.

Offline Dawg25385

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2015, 11:27:49 AM »
But other than that my metals are all I have as investments. And I am 100% OK with that...  I'm not going to put my hard earned money into stocks or bonds just to keep feeding the machine that has created this mess in the first place.  Only to watch half or more of my "wealth" dissapear potentially overnight.

Just going to leave these right here boss...

1 yr troy oz silver


Roughly 30% drop in silver in a year... and I own a fair bit of silver. Good thing my equity portfolio offset it... that's called diversification ;)
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Offline EL TATE

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #28 on: July 08, 2015, 01:23:39 PM »
Kyle,

That is a number that would make me and especially my wife go pale over, but I think that what Don's getting at is though on paper you lost your hat, when the paper ceases to matter, and your portfolio is gone you will still have your silver in your hand, and the actual value that it represents, and in later cases much more than that. I don't currently have the financial wherewithal to purchase precious metals, but as my finances slowly return to equilibrium here, I see more and more now that they will be my primary investment along with property and livestock. My little garden experiment is turning out exceptionally well, and has inspired us to expand. Many like minded neighbors in my small rural community are already using their wasted dead lawn space to grow food, raise chickens and goats and revert to a more self sustaining scenario, and I have a lot more untapped property that I can convert to very healthy growing space. I'd rather have 50lbs of squash than $50 printed paper.
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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2015, 04:24:32 PM »
Don't let short term thoughts mess with your long range security.

50 ounces of silver, after a market meltdown still weighs 50 ounces!
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Offline husker77c

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2015, 04:44:58 PM »
But other than that my metals are all I have as investments. And I am 100% OK with that...  I'm not going to put my hard earned money into stocks or bonds just to keep feeding the machine that has created this mess in the first place.  Only to watch half or more of my "wealth" dissapear potentially overnight.

Just going to leave these right here boss...

1 yr troy oz silver


Roughly 30% drop in silver in a year... and I own a fair bit of silver. Good thing my equity portfolio offset it... that's called diversification ;)


I'm well aware of silvers performance in charts. As i said above I'm not buying metals to trade and make a profit.  I'm converting worthless paper into a tangible asset.  I know the meaning of diversification. Just because I refuse to participate in the game doesn't mean I don't know how it's played.  Stocks, bonds, mutual funds etc are paper that is worth whatever the bankers want it to be worth. The only thing propping up the stock market is low interest rates and QE unlimited.  when you sift through all the crap the media is telling us about the economy you can see just how bad of shape we are in  But since they've kept it going for this long who's to say they won't keep it up for another 20 years?  People that have large amounts of money in the markets should pray that they can keep it going because that's about the only chance you've got.





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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2015, 05:36:36 PM »
I had a thoughtful post written, but am just going to dip out right here... we've got a different point of view, and that's ok.

Love ya Real Men, and wish for nothing but the best for everyone financially ;)
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Offline cudakidd53

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2015, 06:03:59 PM »
I had a thoughtful post written, but am just going to dip out right here... we've got a different point of view, and that's ok.

Love ya Real Men, and wish for nothing but the best for everyone financially ;)

Don't be afraid to put it out there-- we're allowed to have different views and approaches; makes us stronger challenging our own thoughts!
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Offline Wilbur

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2015, 06:45:37 PM »
I have a question for the gold buyers here. I see the rationale for buying gold bullion but I also wonder whether 1 ounce bars makes the most sense in a SHTF scenario. A 1 oz. bar will be worth a LOT and it won't be that easy to "get change", or at least "change" that you want (paper money etc.). So I am thinking that coins that may be in 1/10th ounce or 1/4 ounce might make sense as well. Then you are not always dealing in an instrument that is worth much more than you may want to spend for whatever you are buying. I think that same rationale makes sense with silver as well given that you can get even smaller amounts in silver coins.

The other reason I like that idea (buying smaller amounts more often as opposed to waiting for X months and then buying a larger amount) is that you can apply a dollar cost averaging approach to building up your stash. If you are familiar with the term then you get it but for anyone unsure of it- by setting a specific dollar investment amount that you will make each month you are "dollar cost averaging" which lowers you average cost as the price fluctuates over the period of time you are investing. In the silver chart that was posted the average cost over the past 12 months was approximately 17.28 per ounce. If you had invested $500 a month then your average cost per ounce would have been $17.11 per ounce, below the average cost of silver over that 12 month period. This strategy works best in volatile markets which precious metals certainly falls in to. But as with all things like this YMMV.   
 

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2015, 10:03:15 PM »
Borrowing and credit use hit an all time high this month.
I heard a radio announcer saying, the expected pay increases have spawned renewed confidience in spending.

The truth is, pay, take home pay, that is, is falling. The increase in credit use simply reflects the same spending people have been doing all along, only now a greater percentage of it is in the form of credit or debt spending.

The record for the month peaked 1 trillion dollars!

This is simply unsustainable. If we are spending over a trillion every month, explain to me how the US claims there is a bit over 250 billion in actual paper money in circulation at the present time.

Greece has failed. Countries are lined up like cord-wood to follow as soon as they see how Greece wallows out of their mess. And China's economy is retracting (Thank goodness)
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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2015, 11:48:55 PM »
Don't let short term thoughts mess with your long range security.

50 ounces of silver, after a market meltdown still weighs 50 ounces!
That's some fancy aviator math right there!

I had a thoughtful post written, but am just going to dip out right here... we've got a different point of view, and that's ok.

Love ya Real Men, and wish for nothing but the best for everyone financially ;)

Don't be afraid to put it out there-- we're allowed to have different views and approaches; makes us stronger challenging our own thoughts!

Exactly!! That's part of the reason behind the site (forgive me for channeling my inner Don.  Don correct me if I'm wrong) We all respect each other and have different views on things around a core of faith.  A man who does not respect and seek to understand the views of others who disagree with him will never grow.

Also, diversification is a solid concept IMHO.  We can't completely predict the future and we all have different tolerances for risk.  Heck, some of us may believe were close to being able to pull the plug on life as we know it and get off the grid/treadmill.  Others of us may be just starting out.  Pessimism is an interesting phenomenon.  It is with me more and more every day as I get older.

Who can say for certain?  No one.  But diversification is wise for a young man with a much longer horizon.
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Offline Dawg25385

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2015, 11:56:41 PM »
I had a thoughtful post written, but am just going to dip out right here... we've got a different point of view, and that's ok.

Love ya Real Men, and wish for nothing but the best for everyone financially ;)

Don't be afraid to put it out there-- we're allowed to have different views and approaches; makes us stronger challenging our own thoughts!

Exactly!! That's part of the reason behind the site (forgive me for channeling my inner Don.  Don correct me if I'm wrong) We all respect each other and have different views on things around a core of faith.  A man who does not respect and seek to understand the views of others who disagree with him will never grow.

Also, diversification is a solid concept IMHO.  We can't completely predict the future and we all have different tolerances for risk.  Heck, some of us may believe were close to being able to pull the plug on life as we know it and get off the grid/treadmill.  Others of us may be just starting out.  Pessimism is an interesting phenomenon.  It is with me more and more every day as I get older.

Who can say for certain?  No one.  But diversification is wise for a young man with a much longer horizon.

Ok then... here's what i was going to say.

I'm going to dump my brain here for a minute. I apparently look at this a little differently...
 
I think, and plan, in terms of expected outcomes?plural, more than one. This is a mathematical/economic term used to describe the probability-weighted outcome. As we know there are lots of outcomes: economic/financial collapse for whatever reason, foreign war, civil war, invasion, individual prosperity, economic prosperity, disease, "normalcy", unexpected death, winning the lottery, the rapture... so on and so forth. Each of those has a hypothetical probability that it might occur, and these are of course variable, and can have different expected time-frames. Of course some of the potential outcomes are positive, and some are negative, ranging from a reemergence of conservative USandA and everyone growing fat and happy, to TEOTWAWKI.
 
What I would caution is to go all-in on one expected outcome or the other, given that each have variable probabilities of occurring. Abandoning all of your traditional investments in favor of precious metals, for example, would be foolish if you only think there's a 50% chance of total Financial Collapse in the immediate term (just as going all in on stocks and bonds is foolish if assuming status quo; being naive to the emerging threats to the global economy due to uncontrolled spending and debt, among others). A more appropriate strategy would be to diversify out of financial assets and into physical assets for example. If you do that though, it would also be prudent to choose things that remain valuable (and useable!), and most importantly, less volatile, in the most environments to reduce risk. For example, I think of Big Don's farm... practically invaluable in a TEOTWAWKI environment, but still quite valuable in times of "normalcy" or economic prosperity. Ammunition? Probably diminishing marginal value, but still a valuable commodity (especially if legislation changes)... and in status quo, fun to shoot! Gold? That's tricky. It's volatile, its commercial worth in times of incivility is debatable... Ounce of gold or my AR? I'll take the AR... 20 Oz of gold or 10 acres in the boonies? I'll take the land... and camp on it if things don't go south!
 
I guess my point, Men, is this.... Please be smart with your money. I would be remiss if 20 years from now I looked back on somebody who I knew who dumped all their investments in favor of gold and got absolutely butchered by gold prices, or missed out on years of other asset appreciation that would have prepared them for retirement, and I hadn?t spoken up. You can still diversify tremendously in favor of a vastly more conservative portfolio (hard assets, precious metals, etc) to prepare for more severe economic or social events. Just be careful... I care about y'all, or I wouldn't speak up.
 
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Offline rasimmo

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #37 on: July 09, 2015, 12:21:32 AM »
Thanks for that Kyle. I have a similar financial strategy. Sorta hitting the middle of the road where I'll be in decent shape no matter which scenario unfolds.

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #38 on: July 09, 2015, 01:36:52 AM »
Excellent post Dawg IMHO.

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #39 on: July 09, 2015, 06:58:54 AM »
Thanks for sharing, Kyle.
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Offline Atkinsmatt

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2015, 07:28:15 AM »
Glad you put that up.
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Offline cruizng

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #41 on: July 09, 2015, 08:08:11 AM »
All great points! I also have a diversified view.

I took Don's advice earlier this year and opened up a Self Directed 401K. Yesterday I just bought 16 oz of gold @ $1201 oz from funds that I rolled over from a previous companies 401K that I still had open. I have a couple of other 401K's that I could roll over also but I am testing out the Self Directed 401K now.

My own personal opinion is that you want to take advantage of your work 401K provided if possible. It takes advantage of dollar cost averaging. It is pre tax at the time and lowers your annual income. If your company also contributes on your behalf that is free money. My company contributed 105% up to a maximum for last year. That was almost $5K free money. If you don't participate you would lose some or all of that potential $$. If I leave my current company and I continue to see issues with the stock market I can always transfer that money into the self directed 401K and then buy something tangible. Gold, Silver, land, businesses, etc..

To Kyle's point there is a huge incentive for the bankers and hedge fund managers to keep some profits flowing. If everyday people read their 401K or IRA quarterly statements and saw them crashing like 2008 and other big corrections they would bail and there would be no money for them to manipulate. :) 

As I get older I tend to look at retirement options much closer than when I was 30. I originally thought I would retire at 55 or 60. Now it is 70. SO if I was 20 or 30 today I would be taking advantage of diversification and dollar cost averaging.

Ole Goat DOT out...  8)
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Offline husker77c

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2015, 08:29:22 AM »
I have a question for the gold buyers here. I see the rationale for buying gold bullion but I also wonder whether 1 ounce bars makes the most sense in a SHTF scenario. A 1 oz. bar will be worth a LOT and it won't be that easy to "get change", or at least "change" that you want (paper money etc.). So I am thinking that coins that may be in 1/10th ounce or 1/4 ounce might make sense as well. Then you are not always dealing in an instrument that is worth much more than you may want to spend for whatever you are buying. I think that same rationale makes sense with silver as well given that you can get even smaller amounts in silver coins.

The other reason I like that idea (buying smaller amounts more often as opposed to waiting for X months and then buying a larger amount) is that you can apply a dollar cost averaging approach to building up your stash. If you are familiar with the term then you get it but for anyone unsure of it- by setting a specific dollar investment amount that you will make each month you are "dollar cost averaging" which lowers you average cost as the price fluctuates over the period of time you are investing. In the silver chart that was posted the average cost over the past 12 months was approximately 17.28 per ounce. If you had invested $500 a month then your average cost per ounce would have been $17.11 per ounce, below the average cost of silver over that 12 month period. This strategy works best in volatile markets which precious metals certainly falls in to. But as with all things like this YMMV.   
 

The only downfall with buying smaller denominations of metals is the premiums are higher.   Rough example a 1oz gold coin at $1200/oz  will cost somewhere around $1250 with the sellers premium. Whereas 10 1/10oz coins would cost you closer to $1450/oz.  and also if you bought a kilo bar you might get it for $1205/oz. 

One thing to think about that an old timer told me is after a collapse Or a return to a gold and silver backed financial system you could carve off a piece of your gold coin to make smaller denominations.  That's where the term bits came from as in a "two bit no good such an such".

This assumes people have a way to assure your gold is legit.  I imagine fraud wasn't as rampant back then as it is now. Tungsten filled bars etc.

Offline husker77c

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2015, 08:47:43 AM »
I had a thoughtful post written, but am just going to dip out right here... we've got a different point of view, and that's ok.

Love ya Real Men, and wish for nothing but the best for everyone financially ;)

Don't be afraid to put it out there-- we're allowed to have different views and approaches; makes us stronger challenging our own thoughts!

Exactly!! That's part of the reason behind the site (forgive me for channeling my inner Don.  Don correct me if I'm wrong) We all respect each other and have different views on things around a core of faith.  A man who does not respect and seek to understand the views of others who disagree with him will never grow.

Also, diversification is a solid concept IMHO.  We can't completely predict the future and we all have different tolerances for risk.  Heck, some of us may believe were close to being able to pull the plug on life as we know it and get off the grid/treadmill.  Others of us may be just starting out.  Pessimism is an interesting phenomenon.  It is with me more and more every day as I get older.

Who can say for certain?  No one.  But diversification is wise for a young man with a much longer horizon.

Ok then... here's what i was going to say.

I'm going to dump my brain here for a minute. I apparently look at this a little differently...
 
I think, and plan, in terms of expected outcomes?plural, more than one. This is a mathematical/economic term used to describe the probability-weighted outcome. As we know there are lots of outcomes: economic/financial collapse for whatever reason, foreign war, civil war, invasion, individual prosperity, economic prosperity, disease, "normalcy", unexpected death, winning the lottery, the rapture... so on and so forth. Each of those has a hypothetical probability that it might occur, and these are of course variable, and can have different expected time-frames. Of course some of the potential outcomes are positive, and some are negative, ranging from a reemergence of conservative USandA and everyone growing fat and happy, to TEOTWAWKI.
 
What I would caution is to go all-in on one expected outcome or the other, given that each have variable probabilities of occurring. Abandoning all of your traditional investments in favor of precious metals, for example, would be foolish if you only think there's a 50% chance of total Financial Collapse in the immediate term (just as going all in on stocks and bonds is foolish if assuming status quo; being naive to the emerging threats to the global economy due to uncontrolled spending and debt, among others). A more appropriate strategy would be to diversify out of financial assets and into physical assets for example. If you do that though, it would also be prudent to choose things that remain valuable (and useable!), and most importantly, less volatile, in the most environments to reduce risk. For example, I think of Big Don's farm... practically invaluable in a TEOTWAWKI environment, but still quite valuable in times of "normalcy" or economic prosperity. Ammunition? Probably diminishing marginal value, but still a valuable commodity (especially if legislation changes)... and in status quo, fun to shoot! Gold? That's tricky. It's volatile, its commercial worth in times of incivility is debatable... Ounce of gold or my AR? I'll take the AR... 20 Oz of gold or 10 acres in the boonies? I'll take the land... and camp on it if things don't go south!
 
I guess my point, Men, is this.... Please be smart with your money. I would be remiss if 20 years from now I looked back on somebody who I knew who dumped all their investments in favor of gold and got absolutely butchered by gold prices, or missed out on years of other asset appreciation that would have prepared them for retirement, and I hadn?t spoken up. You can still diversify tremendously in favor of a vastly more conservative portfolio (hard assets, precious metals, etc) to prepare for more severe economic or social events. Just be careful... I care about y'all, or I wouldn't speak up.

That is a good post and I should probably clarify my statement.  I may have come off a little hot in my response to your chart.

I made really good money from the time I was 22-30. But honestly I squandered it.  Brand new trucks, 4 wheelers, Harleys. Heck at one point I had close to $50k in high end watches (which are actually not a terrible investment btw).  I sure wish I had invested better in my younger days. 

That being said I've been in a pretty rough patch since then.  My girl wanted me to stop traveling so I started a business that did ok but she talked me into hiring her father to do my accounting and, well long story short I owed my soul to the IRS for several years and I still am paying for those mistakes.  That girl and her father are gone. 

This left me 4 years out of contact with the people in my last job, broke  except for my metal. I never sold any of it. I sold a bunch of other things to get back into line financially and recently got a job doing what I used to do and making good money again.

So now I'm smarter and making good money again and need to be looking to the future.  I just can't see getting into the market right now. I think it's over valued by a loooong ways and a correction is inevitable.  I think the potential upside to getting into the market for me is not that great.  It seems like I would just be chasing profits.   The real money has already been made. That's the reason I'm 100% ok with having only metal right now.  My money at this point in my life and the economy can be better spent elsewhere. 

I've made my bed as far as investing goes thus far in my life and I am stockpiling cash to buy some land and a house. If the market crashes but we don't collapse I will be a bargain hunting fool.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2015, 03:49:31 PM by husker77c »

Offline Wilbur

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2015, 12:22:46 PM »
The only downfall with buying smaller denominations of metals is the premiums are higher.   Rough example a 1oz gold coin at $1200/oz  will cost somewhere around $1250 with the sellers premium. Whereas 10 1/10oz coins would cost you closer to $1450/oz.  and also if you bought a kilo bar you might get it for $1205/oz. 

One thing to think about that an old timer told me is after a collapse Or a return to a gold and silver backed financial system you could carve off a piece of your gold coin to make smaller denominations.  That's where the term bits came from as in a "two bit no good such an such".

This assumes people have a way to assure your gold is legit.  I imagine fraud wasn't as rampant back then as it is now. Tungsten filled bars etc.

Thanks Husker- I have not bought gold/silver directly so have not dealt with the premiums you need to pay for smaller purchases. That makes sense though. But you hit the nail with my concern re how to break off a bar and would you (or the seller you are dealing with) be able to "trust" the value etc.

Ultimately I think precious metals have a place in ones financial portfolio. I don't think anyone should put 100% into it along the lines of what Dawg mentioned. I think his post of the "range of possible outcomes" was very well articulated.

Ultimately we have lots of things that we do in life to "protect" us against possible bad scenarios- we have extra food on hand for if a storm hits and we can't get to the store. We have car insurance and fire insurance so that if we have a hit there we have a way to "rebuild" (get the car fixed, have the house rebuilt). Ultimately we all need to look at our specifics and determine what we need to do to protect ourselves from all sorts of disasters, and what is right for a couple with no kids that live in the southwest will be vastly different than a couple with kids that lives in the snowbelt. But we all need to prepare for various "attacks" and ensure that our families are the best prepared they can be to weather those storms. Sites like this can be so helpful because we all learn from other thoughtful people on a wide range of subjects.     

Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #45 on: July 09, 2015, 08:54:46 PM »
Another option is 90% silver coins.  Easy to verify, trade, recognizable post EOTWAWKI.

http://www.jmbullion.com/90-silver-coins-100-face-value/
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Offline TexasRedNeck

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #46 on: July 09, 2015, 09:07:54 PM »
Best deal I've seen today on a monster box of American Eagle is $9380.  Anyone know of a cheaper source?
Kids today don't know how easy they have it. When I was young, I had to walk 9 feet through shag carpet to change the TV channel.

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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #47 on: July 09, 2015, 09:21:40 PM »
Another option is 90% silver coins.  Easy to verify, trade, recognizable post EOTWAWKI.

http://www.jmbullion.com/90-silver-coins-100-face-value/

I've been buying them for a few years now
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Offline cudakidd53

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #48 on: July 19, 2015, 07:02:03 PM »
Being Sunday, no trading and prices are low ~$1133 gold and ~$14.92 silver  -which will hold until trading opens tomorrow morning.

JMBullion has a sale on 1.25 oz Canadian Silver coins = 20 for $435.50 netting 25oz. of silver.  They also have a sale on 10oz. silver bars for $164.20   Two good options depending upon your needs.  They have NO junk silver available in bulk right now, only Peace Dollars available and the $ per oz. is fairly high comparatively.

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Offline Flyin6

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Re: Purchasing bullion
« Reply #49 on: July 19, 2015, 10:05:09 PM »
Well, that's all I needed...been pondering jumping into some more, that sealed the deal...I'll be ordering tomorrow!
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