Author Topic: 1991/1985 Suburban 2500 build and flip, again! (Read 136193 times)

JR · « **Reply #150 on:** February 23, 2015, 01:41:53 AM »

Working on the elky trans right now. Found a small valve body issue as I was about to put the new one in. (83 vs 87) Got it figured out, just swapping the valve bodies since mine is a V8 with a shift kit.

Getting it into the garage was fun but an old HF 2500lb lift helped me out.

Son was having a blast with his tank while I did this.

JR · « **Reply #151 on:** February 23, 2015, 02:06:27 AM »

I have a 1 inch hole drilled in the floor and the winch is mounted on a 1/4 plate. Got a rod welded to the plate and it slides in when needed.

When I first pulled it up the cummins was still in back. Got it unloaded then pulled the car up onto 4 inch blocks for the tranny swap with jack stand in the front. The 6BT is sitting here for now. I will build a new tray for it tomorrow so I can move it around better and store the picker again. Then I am going to mod my stand I made 25 years ago to handle a tad more weight and make it so I can spin the motor easier.

Then I picked up a new motorcycle jack from HF to help get it in. Nice thing is with the adapters, it holds a tranny very nice so us old guys don't have to bend over as much.

JR · « **Reply #152 on:** February 23, 2015, 02:12:35 AM »

Then I did a search and found a pair of internal front hubs for my Dana 60. The add on Ebay said for external hubs, but thats not what the picture showed, plus it had casting numbers on it. Did a little search and found they were for a D60 internal hub front axle.

Offered $100 each (by it now was 125) and got a yes in 10 minutes with free shipping! 8) New these things are going for $250 plus and used are in the $150+ range.

Dustoff35 · « **Reply #153 on:** February 23, 2015, 11:51:36 AM »

Quote from: JR on February 23, 2015, 02:06:27 AM

I have a 1 inch hole drilled in the floor and the winch is mounted on a 1/4 plate. Got a rod welded to the plate and it slides in when needed.

Great idea. I may use that one.

JR · « **Reply #154 on:** February 24, 2015, 02:50:19 PM »

Little more searching today and picked up a set of injector lines and hold downs. Now I need the return line.

Also need front locking hubs and probably go with 35 spline axles. Also need a 2 wheel drive steering box for the crossover steering.

Going to stick with the stock 5.9 type mounts. So many ways to make the mounts and cross member for this.

Now I start thinking of how to make the power I want (400 or so) and go from there as I go through it.

Don, who did you use?

Flyin6 · « **Reply #155 on:** February 24, 2015, 08:28:38 PM »

Quote from: JR on February 24, 2015, 02:50:19 PM

Little more searching today and picked up a set of injector lines and hold downs. Now I need the return line.

Also need front locking hubs and probably go with 35 spline axles. Also need a 2 wheel drive steering box for the crossover steering.

Going to stick with the stock 5.9 type mounts. So many ways to make the mounts and cross member for this.

Now I start thinking of how to make the power I want (400 or so) and go from there as I go through it.

Don, who did you use?

Gillette Diesel is the go to turbo and injector guy I like.
400Hp, er, maybe, 350 not a problem. Marine injectors, 12cm exhaust, 60mm compressor or just score a HX35 from a 2nd gen. Bump timing 1/8", fuel pin, turn star wheel up, 3200 or better gov spring, good lift pump and a 4" exhaust is 350 HP and 700 ish torque. Plenty to motivate that white contraption to the point your bros will cease being your friends!

BobbyB · « **Reply #156 on:** February 25, 2015, 01:53:34 AM »

Quote from: Flyin6 on February 24, 2015, 08:28:38 PM

to the point your bros will cease being your friends!

Then they aren't real friends.

JR · « **Reply #157 on:** March 03, 2015, 04:14:52 AM »

Well, made a little trip as I stated down south and got a M1101 trailer, but mines Camo. For $800 and I got a spare tire.

Got the elky tranny in just before I left and a few parts came in also. Found all my lines and a set of internal hubs for the 60.

For the hubs I am going to use the electrolysis rust tank.

Dustoff35 · « **Reply #158 on:** March 03, 2015, 06:59:33 AM »

Be sure to post up a picture of your electrolytic process…

Those hubs look like they have been degreased pretty well, thats good. It helps keep the solution alkaline.

JR · « **Reply #159 on:** March 04, 2015, 04:10:03 AM »

Something just occurred to me and maybe you guys can help me out or even have them laying around to check.

So, I need spacers ( 85+ 14bt with 67in wms) to run the stock H1 wheels or I have to recenter the wheels because of 7in backspace.

If I went to dually hubs front and back wouldn't that allow me to run the H1 wheels as they are? Plus I don't need to get or weld centers to my wheels.

From what I am seeing the DRW is 72in wms to wms, so I would get what would be like adding a 2.5 spacer.

Not sure if the front is the same but that is why I'm asking.

cudakidd53 · « **Reply #160 on:** March 04, 2015, 07:08:47 AM »

Wouldn't that solution have implications for your brakes too? ???

Flyin6 · « **Reply #161 on:** March 04, 2015, 09:35:52 PM »

I was thinking you could use dually hubs as well, but if you ever needed a spare, then you will have to find an Armee wheel or a dually wheel.

Ifens you use a spacer then you could pull that off and bolt on any appropriate 8 lug wheel you come across. But recentering the wheels solves everything and it's a cool project.

JR · « **Reply #162 on:** March 04, 2015, 09:56:15 PM »

Kinda looking at it all, sorta a tossup. The "option" of grabbing almost any 8 lug and run it has an appeal, just as not recentering does.

With a little more research the front dually setup will be to wide. However the rear will work just fine. For the front I can just run the spacers I have and I could remove those if needed because turning would be an issue. For the rear, sticking out some until repaired would not be a big deal. Plus the tracts seem to be getting wider all the time.

So right now to run it I need rear drw hubs, axles are the same. To recenter, that would only apply to the truck, not the trailer or spare for it as the tract is not really adjustable anyway easy.

I am still leaning to running the H1s as is and do the dually rear hubs. for the rear discs, thats another thing I need to look at too.

OldKooT · « **Reply #163 on:** March 04, 2015, 10:37:58 PM »

Ok so let me jump in here. A Dana 60 front dually hub would allow you to run stock H1 wheels with no spacer, that's a common set up. You can bolt any 8 lug wheel onto a dually hub physically.

The problem arises in the rear axle area. You will find the 67" axle way too narrow obviously. Some will score a van 14 Bolt, run a 2" spacer and call it close enough to the front axle width they then just run it.

Another option would be some Dana 70HD dually axles are similar width to the front Dually 60. Also the P30 Chevy step van 14 bolts in some years are quite wide as well.

I'd just recenter them...it's more economical by far.

JR · « **Reply #164 on:** March 05, 2015, 01:11:15 AM »

Ok, but the 14bt I have now is 67. If I add the drw hubs I get a 72in wms to wms, right?

But if I have spacers and have to run a standard H1 wheel I can, leaving the front and rear as is at 67in (+ the spacers) for a 72in wms. if I recenter the wheels.

Maybe I am making this harder than it needs be, thats why I am asking.

I am just a little concerned about running spacers all the time. They are alum, but so are many wheels. However they are billet vs cast for the wheels. 2 more spacers will run me $70. 5 centers run about $250, plus the work to mount em, maybe machine to true em up too.

Have you re-centered any Norm?

OldKooT · « **Reply #165 on:** March 06, 2015, 08:07:56 AM »

JR...... I have re-centered H1 wheels yes. Three sets over the years.

The process I always used was to swipe time on a friends large lathe and do the cutting/welding on that. That usually made for nice wheels as far as runout. What I often ran into issues with using H1's was balance problems. Also the 3.5" BS using pressed centers never thrilled me.

Flyin6 · « **Reply #166 on:** March 06, 2015, 09:37:12 AM »

Quote from: OldKooT on March 06, 2015, 08:07:56 AM

JR...... I have re-centered H1 wheels yes. Three sets over the years.

The process I always used was to swipe time on a friends large lathe and do the cutting/welding on that. That usually made for nice wheels as far as runout. What I often ran into issues with using H1's was balance problems. Also the 3.5" BS using pressed centers never thrilled me.

JR, need to borrow your thread a moment

Norm,
On the subject of balancing the H1 recentered wheels, how did you do it?
Do you recall how I am attempting to do it?
I added about two tablespoons of BB's and several tablespoons of the air-soft plastic beads
I added all that outside of the dual beadlock
I do not want out of balance wheels

JR · « **Reply #167 on:** March 06, 2015, 11:14:03 AM »

Great questions you DOT,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I am looking for more like a 4.5 bs and saw they are using 8-10oz of airsoft.

Bob Smith · « **Reply #168 on:** March 06, 2015, 12:23:19 PM »

Quote from: Flyin6 on March 06, 2015, 09:37:12 AM

Quote from: OldKooT on March 06, 2015, 08:07:56 AM
JR...... I have re-centered H1 wheels yes. Three sets over the years.

The process I always used was to swipe time on a friends large lathe and do the cutting/welding on that. That usually made for nice wheels as far as runout. What I often ran into issues with using H1's was balance problems. Also the 3.5" BS using pressed centers never thrilled me.

JR, need to borrow your thread a moment

Norm,
On the subject of balancing the H1 recentered wheels, how did you do it?
Do you recall how I am attempting to do it?
I added about two tablespoons of BB's and several tablespoons of the air-soft plastic beads
I added all that outside of the dual beadlock
I do not want out of balance wheels

Now this sounds like a great reason for a new thread in the tires and wheels section, not just a DOT post

Flyin6 · « **Reply #169 on:** March 06, 2015, 04:43:20 PM »

Bob's on to something here

JR · « **Reply #170 on:** March 06, 2015, 06:17:13 PM »

Norm, you have this one for now.

I am going to set something up to hold and turn as I weld (something for something else but will cross over)

Enlighten us please!!

JR · « **Reply #171 on:** March 11, 2015, 05:11:03 AM »

Well, finally got around to making my electrolytic rust remover.

The only real issue I had is my 2 smart chargers WONT work! They like to see voltage and adjust as they go. I tried and tried and finally dug out a 6v DC car charger and I had bubbles!! Just 800ma so it may take a little longer so a PC power supply might be next.

First was four 8 inch pieces of rebar. They were held in with #14 copper wire from the outside.

JR · « **Reply #172 on:** March 11, 2015, 05:14:58 AM »

I checked the bucket to be sure the hubs would fit first. First I knocked the races out.

Mixed the soda water and hung them in.

Bubbling good so we will see.

JR · « **Reply #173 on:** March 11, 2015, 05:27:29 AM »

Here is is about an hour later. Looking good for just 6v@800ma.

Put a better hanger on it too to make sure it was grounded good, but the regular chargers would not touch it!!

Sammconn · « **Reply #174 on:** March 11, 2015, 07:36:40 AM »

That is one thing that I found out too.
That the smart chargers are too dang smart.
There have been a couple times I've had to dig out an old one to get a 'bit' of charge on a battery for the smart charger to take over.
Good to see you have it sorted, and can't wait to see how the hubs turn out.

Flyin6 · « **Reply #175 on:** March 11, 2015, 08:14:25 AM »

This is cool stuff

Did you know about it before Duane wrote it up?

I was curious if you/others were picking up ideas/tips from all the information floating around here??

JR · « **Reply #176 on:** March 11, 2015, 01:07:17 PM »

I got the idea here. Thanks Duane ;D

Did a few searches and here we are!

I have had to boost a few batteries to before they would charge. I normally just grab a little charger like you see, have boxes of em and if you burn it up, who cares!

I also have some really smart chargers for my model planes. They do lithiums, Metal Hydride and lead acid. They show charge rate, amp in and time with a nice digital readout. They are limited to around 5 amps though but will charge 48v DC.

JR · « **Reply #177 on:** March 11, 2015, 01:18:30 PM »

Well after sitting in the bath for 8 hours i saw a nice layer of rust on the surface. Not bad for 800ma.

Pulled it out and it looks good. Still a couple rust spots but mostly black where the rust was and expected.

I will let it sit for another 12 hours and check out HF for a dumb charger.

Flyin6 · « **Reply #178 on:** March 11, 2015, 01:19:45 PM »

Lookin' good!

Sammconn · « **Reply #179 on:** March 11, 2015, 01:30:57 PM »

Looks real good.

I see a lack of 'mandals' tho!

JR · « **Reply #180 on:** March 11, 2015, 01:39:07 PM »

Quote from: Sammconn on March 11, 2015, 01:30:57 PM

Looks real good.

I see a lack of 'mandals' tho!

JR · « **Reply #181 on:** March 13, 2015, 02:50:28 AM »

Well, the jury is still out on the rust cleaner. After 24 hours it is better, but not what I expected and it doesn't brush clean yet. Will try more power and report back.

JR · « **Reply #182 on:** March 13, 2015, 02:56:10 AM »

So tearing into the burb now I got the front headliner down and some of the trim out. Kinda getting ahead of myself here as I need to get the 1500 going and out before this becomes the full time "fluid change"

Wasn't as bad as I thought

JR · « **Reply #183 on:** March 13, 2015, 03:23:41 AM »

Then I started to pull the motor apart some. Before I drop it onto my new cart; http://real-man-truckworks-and-survival.com/index.php?topic=841.new#new I am going to power wash it.

Then I am going to mod my engine stand for the ctd.

Dustoff35 · « **Reply #184 on:** March 13, 2015, 08:15:42 AM »

Quote from: JR on March 13, 2015, 02:50:28 AM

Well, the jury is still out on the rust cleaner. After 24 hours it is better, but not what I expected and it doesn't brush clean yet. Will try more power and report back.

24 hours should be more than enough, you may not have enough power. Any grease or oil on the parts will degrade the solution; you want it to be on the alkaline side. I don't know if you saw any of the warnings, but make sure you do this in a well ventilated area, hydrogen gas is released during the process, you don't want that stuff to build up...

At least while you are cooking off the rust, you can work on other parts of the build.

Flyin6 · « **Reply #185 on:** March 13, 2015, 09:44:22 AM »

You need to hook up with norm (oldkoot) for P-pump parts and ideas
He apparently has a storehouse!

JR · « **Reply #186 on:** March 13, 2015, 10:30:01 AM »

Norm and I talked about everything. In fact it got carry away like most things here.

I am going to powerwash the motor. Looks like a couple drains were weeping and there is you know what all over the lower block.

As soon as I mount it on the cart I am going to pull the head to see where I am at. This is supposed to be a high mile motor but ran good. I am hoping for just a hone, rings and bearings.

Flyin6 · « **Reply #187 on:** March 13, 2015, 11:03:52 AM »

Carried away???

I don't understand...

JR · « **Reply #188 on:** March 13, 2015, 11:22:47 AM »

Lots of phone time about everything. This stuff was just a primer.

OldKooT · « **Reply #189 on:** March 13, 2015, 12:24:48 PM »

LoL..... talking about carried away. I just spent this morning hauling Cummins well plants out to the pivots and setting them up. This nice weather has me farming instead of wrenching which is very annoying.

JR.... it is a Cummins my friend. Reseal anything the holds oil inside it so it leaks a bit less, and run it. And use Cummins/Case_IH gaskets for at the very minimal the exhaust manifold, rear main seal, and tappet cover. I actually prefer Fel Pros valve cover gaskets.

If your bored/OCD and have to remove the head and look at the cross hatch pattern then my advice is do NOT try and reinstall it without resurfacing the head. Also, you may as well have the valves done, and all that fun stuff. Porting is almost free........

JR · « **Reply #190 on:** March 13, 2015, 12:37:27 PM »

Yes, most of that was in the plans. From what I am seeing a new head is almost cheaper than rebuilt. I am going to stud it to.

I was trying to get a camera down the injector hole but it is just a tad to big. What do you think about 5x12 injectors? Found a used set I am looking at.

Got a new oil fill valve cover to dump that thing hanging out the front cover.

OldKooT · « **Reply #191 on:** March 13, 2015, 04:12:23 PM »

I think those injectors will be fine if your planning to upgrade air flow a bit... I'd research who built them and such, as not all are created equal. Those sticks, a small increase in timing, and a larger compressor will make good drivable power.

Keep in mind an auto tranny that will be happy behind a warmed up 6bt in a heavy 4x4 isn't inexpensive...your budget and goals will have to dictate your "tune"

JR · « **Reply #192 on:** March 13, 2015, 04:57:56 PM »

Tranny is on the books too. Guy nearby does them, nothing but 518/47/48 and said he can do anything I want.

THX!!

husker77c · « **Reply #193 on:** March 14, 2015, 07:45:45 PM »

Quote from: Bob/OlallaWa on March 06, 2015, 12:23:19 PM

Quote from: Flyin6 on March 06, 2015, 09:37:12 AM
Quote from: OldKooT on March 06, 2015, 08:07:56 AM
JR...... I have re-centered H1 wheels yes. Three sets over the years.

The process I always used was to swipe time on a friends large lathe and do the cutting/welding on that. That usually made for nice wheels as far as runout. What I often ran into issues with using H1's was balance problems. Also the 3.5" BS using pressed centers never thrilled me.

JR, need to borrow your thread a moment

Norm,
On the subject of balancing the H1 recentered wheels, how did you do it?
Do you recall how I am attempting to do it?
I added about two tablespoons of BB's and several tablespoons of the air-soft plastic beads
I added all that outside of the dual beadlock
I do not want out of balance wheels

Now this sounds like a great reason for a new thread in the tires and wheels section, not just a DOT post

Yes yes yes. I am wanting to use hummer wheels and tires on the ford and cheapest I've found is trail worthy fab for ~$375 ea. The website referenced earlier in this thread it looks like you could build one for around $100 if you could do your own welding.

JR · « **Reply #194 on:** March 14, 2015, 09:39:02 PM »

So those pressed centers give me 3.5 BS, 4.5 is more is the target. Will have to contact them on this.

JR · « **Reply #195 on:** March 16, 2015, 04:39:16 PM »

OK guys, I need a little help here choosing my motor for this swap. This is my first 5.9 motor swap. Not my first swap or diesel motor though!

I got all excited about getting the Ppump motor from a 94 thinking of the power it can make. This motor has about 325K miles on it (saw the odometer pic) and I am into it for about $1750 with other parts I have picked up. It looks solid vs the leaks and has all adapters for an auto, which I have.

The VE motor has about 150K I was told and came from a running truck that had rusted/fallen apart. I have all the parts for this too for the auto.

The tranny I have is the 518/47r with OD and aNP205 tcase. Drivetrain is a dana 60 front, gm 14bt FF rear with 4:10s in each. Tires are 37's as listed before. This combo says I will see about 1800 rpm at 70 mph. It will get a rebuild and have a non lockup converter.

Now for what I want from the motor;

I am thinking around 350hp, possibly a little more without going crazy. From what I am reading this is easy with both engines, but near the top for the VE pump

I am also looking at driveability, reliability, easy staring and solid mileage. I will drive it alot, but it will not be my only ride by any means. It has a 40 gal tank.

A big issue will be reliability and that I can work on it. The engine themselves are more or less the same vs the pistons if I read right. off the shelf parts will be a biggy for all parts!

The pumps I think is where the diff come in here. The VE pump is a rotary fuel and can be repaired/rebuilt and upgraded on the bench without fancy tools. Is this correct?

I know the Ppump can be worked on but after a few basic things, it need special tools for calibrations and just to rebuild. This pump is like a little motor vs a rotary pump.

EL TATE · « **Reply #196 on:** March 16, 2015, 05:33:08 PM »

Quote from: JR on March 05, 2015, 01:11:15 AM

Ok, but the 14bt I have now is 67. If I add the drw hubs I get a 72in wms to wms, right?

But if I have spacers and have to run a standard H1 wheel I can, leaving the front and rear as is at 67in (+ the spacers) for a 72in wms. if I recenter the wheels.

Maybe I am making this harder than it needs be, thats why I am asking.

I am just a little concerned about running spacers all the time. They are alum, but so are many wheels. However they are billet vs cast for the wheels. 2 more spacers will run me $70. 5 centers run about $250, plus the work to mount em, maybe machine to true em up too.

Have you re-centered any Norm?

I'm concerned. 14T 10.5" with the removable pinion support started it's long sordid history with GM in 1972. '67 would have been an HO72 with a 3rd member style dropout like a 9" ford that removes from the front half of the housing. In the words of "Fat Bastard" spacers are "crap" and are sketchy at best reliability wise. Didn't you spend some time with Uncle Les in your youth learning about the pitfalls of wheel spacers?

Really just curious about the '67 14bt comment. and with the qty of comments already posted since that one, it may have already been addressed and maybe I'm just a little crazy.

JR · « **Reply #197 on:** March 16, 2015, 05:43:21 PM »

It is 67 inch and I am not thrilled about spacers either. I have them but more for seeing what the offset will look like before the final burn.

OldKooT · « **Reply #198 on:** March 17, 2015, 07:28:54 AM »

Honestly you could debate P pump vs VE all morning. I think you will enjoy either one. The VE will have a small edge in economy...the P pump will have a edge on making HP. Run whichever one you want...the P pump does have the advantage of far more used parts floating around. And it's a bit less selective in turbo requirements. So toss a coin? LoL

As for the Hummer wheel centers. With pressed centers your stuck at 3.5" BS. With flat steel centers you can run at 4" or more BS. The flat centers are not as strong, but that's not going to be an issue with your smaller 37" tire size and intended usage. They are however harder to center at home...but doable.

Flyin6 · « **Reply #199 on:** March 17, 2015, 08:10:19 AM »

"Smaller 37" tire size" ^^^^^^

Norm, you must run some big tires bro!

Never mind I remember the pics, YOU DO!